TTA Podcast 124: Sex, Money and the Ministry
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- Available via BlogTalkRadio: www.thethinking...
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The millionaire mega-pastor. The evangelist with the Gulfstream jet. The charismatic minister receiving "favors" from an adoring member of the flock. The houses. The toys. The tax-exempt paychecks. These are touted as God's blessings from on high.
But would a just god truly advocate the lavish lives of religious rock stars swimming in money, clothes, cars, adoration and power? And why do so many mega-ministers wind up in a torrent of controversy and scandal?
Are opportunists merely cashing in on the public's need to believe?
We look at the phenomenon of the millionare minister, and the (literal) business of selling God to the masses.
Your calls and emails
When evangelicals speak of "prosperity gospel" they aren't lying. They just fail to mention that the one who receives all of the prosperity is THEM, not the people who give the money.
All churches will tell you to pay your tithing in exchange for blessings. I think the blessings people think they're getting operates kind of like the worlds first placebo effect.
Seedcorn they say give us your Seedcorn and God will pay you back with interest. What a shameful scam
While old ladies on small social security checks take food off the table to let these scumbbag con artists live in opulence.
The US should tax religion and then use the money to provide free healthcare for all.
hell yea
They are hand-in-hand, be sure of that, they split the money.
Yes the U.S. should do that and so should Canada...
Better yet, anti religion charities
Why? I thought Jesus did all of the healing????! 😒
My grandma once made change from the offering bowl. My grandpa put in a $20.00 bill and when the bowl came to her she took out $18.00 and put it in her purse. True story.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Way to go grandma LOL
There is nothing inappropriate for doing that.
If you're needy, you can just sit there, and when the offering passes by, take out what you need.
@@lagodifuoco313- Yes. The bowl's purpose has been served.
Great podcast, Seth. In the late 90's, I was a member of Rod Parsley's World Harvest Church, and even played saxophone in his horn section. Plus, both my brother and I were students of his Bible "college" - World Harvest Bible "college", now known as Valor Christian college. They would spend every sermon, for an entire year, to prime people for their "Easter seed" offering.
Anyway, after I quit the Bible college, and left the church, I began my long road to atheism. That experience was definitely pivotal in my "exodus" from Christianity.
"My uncle died and left me x amount of dollars, thank you Jesus!" Yeah that's pretty sick, when my grandfather died right before Christmas (his favorite holiday) I sure wasn't thanking Jesus and all that I got was unending sadness and an irrational hatred for cancer.
That is not an irrational hatred. Sorry for your loss.
Thanks
Cameron Stevens Its necessary for people to die someday
Not sorry for your loss
atur chomicz I hope you feel better about yourself.
😔 my deepest condolences
Wow! No Christians in the comments on this podcast. Not One! I wonder if they all think Seth is talking about someone else's church, not theirs?
The final thoughts on taxing religious organisations was thought provoking.
I've long thought that churches should be taxed.
lol oh they aint under this comment because they dont have shit to say. and the ones who cant live "shuttin up" down, they are regrouping and will soon be back soon with something stupid to say. see they have no reasonable thing to say so they had to go gather themselves
No, they say he is pursuing the churches. This is persecution against the church! Fools!!!!
@Vhbaske so are the churches closed pastors put in jail? christ rebuked the pharisees for love of money & their titles. obviously you dont know the difference between persecution and truth that pastors are greedy
It baffles me why anyone would even listen to those people. And also why they aren’t in prison. It’s time to remove tax exempt status from all places of worship. I’m sickened by these televangelist preachers. I have tried to tell people I know that listen to them what frauds they are but they get all upset. I guess religious people can’t handle the truth.
I feel inspired to make my own youtube and podcast. I am an atheist coming also from a christian background. Luckily not forced by family or anything. In fact my family and friends seem accepting of my atheism though I moved to Germany so its not like I have to deal with many of the hard core bible thumpers. Still I have so many things I want to say about it so once I can save some money to invest in it I might start talking about my experiences and thoughts and I am totally a big supporter and fan of you and other Athiest speakers. I am pretty happy my husband and his family are atheists as well. They always were all their lives and are proof you do not need God or any religion to be good and live decent lives. I hope to help be another voice and stand up for secular humanism and against Church trying to take over the government and schools.
Benny Hinn: Let the Bodies Hit the Floor
Seth doesn't lie. Let the bodies hit the floor.
Thank you so much for mentioning Joyce meyer. I read that battle field of the mind book as a vulnerable teenager ( then believer) and it was very damaging , if I remember the way I understood it I was at fault for being depressed , because I was just walking in the desert like the Israelites when I should have just walked into the promised land ( whatever that means??). This sort of attitude in the church lead to me not getting a diagnosis or proper treatment till the last year or so ( nearly 10 years later)
I also read the same book and had the same thoughts, eventually after many years saw the truth that the whole Christian thing is false.
Andrew Wommack another false one
don't forget the Catholic Church and their Billions. Ever been to the Vatican? Even these 'preachers' would be jealous of the money that built that place.
Billions? More like trillions, at least.
They had a 2000 year head start.
My friends rich Uncle died and he left the majority of his money to the Catholic Church. Such a waste.
Those protestant megachurchs have way more money than the Vatican by a long way. They're nothing but international money making enterprises. Protestant ministers make twice as much as priests of god's Church.
Churches should, at least, have to declare their income. I am for outright taxation though. All other nonprofits have to declare their finances.
I agree with that. They should be held to the same tax code as the other non profit organizations.
I think every Joyce Meyer congregation should have a sign out the front that says "Thanks to your donations, Joyce is now shitting into a $30,000 toilet." I mean, holy crap!
pun intended
I actually live three blocks from TBN here in Costa Mesa. It's absurd. The first time I saw it I thought it was some sort of theme park or something lol. They didn't spare any expense with the construction.
I visited there in 1999, 20 years ago when Jan was in charge of interior design. The place looks like Graceland on acid.
Joyce Meyer, the Queen of Shysters.
I love being free from my childhood indoctrination :D
me too. im 26 and finally broke the slave shackles off of my brain when i was 24
Me too!!!! Took a looooong time, though.
Congratulations!
@@ilovepdub now youre in the shackles of unbelief and have no God.Now youre a slave to sin.
At 49 minutes I was having flashbacks to Sunday after fucking Sunday of tithing sermons. Over, and over again. Good job Seth.
I'm having flash backs of writing checks to churches!
It's 2018, they are influencing public policy but they're still not paying any taxes.
Preachers who make a big splash about donating to "charity," usually give it to their own foundations.
Where are you going to draw the line on protecting people from their own stupidity? If a person doesn't look both ways before crossing the street, who's responsible for protecting that person? Society can only do so much.
I live overseas and found about TBN when I was on vacation at a hotel, it was part of the many foreign avaliable tv channels. I was a kid at the time and thought it was a comedy show. As did my parents, for a while. I became hooked on the craziness and spent an absurdly amount of time laughing my head off.
We got some funny looks from the family staying in the nearby room, odds are they thought we were very devout.
That's funny! 😂
Razhender Wild
It goes to show that if you're not exposed to crazy religious behavior as a child that you will find it extremely difficult to take seriously. I had never seen such a thing and was not even aware it existed so it fascinated me...for all the wrong reasons, I bet.
I think your reasons are the best. I wish I could watch it and have a truely enjoyable laugh. Unforntunately, I know they are serious and only laugh cynically.
As I have.
My ex bf would endlessly watch the Bakers and some old coot who would sit at a desk bike behind him and tell people to DUST OFF YOUR BIBLE!!! Laughing 😂 his a* off the entire time😂 He was hooked!
True story. In the 80s I represented Christian musical artists. ORU wanted one of them to perform at their campus- of course for FREE. I kept turning them down, but they kept calling. I finally said, you believe in seed faith right? I have an idea. Instead of paying her normal fee of $3500, or having her come for free, why don't you pay her 10K, and you'll get 100K right? The person didn't find it funny, and I got called on the carpet for it. Funny how THEY always tell you that if you give to them, you'll get back 10 fold- but when you turn the tables, they don't find it real.
Love the work you do, Seth. Great show. Few things make me as angry as religious con games.
(I don't care how old this podcast is)
This steams me that people think that taxing the church somehow legitimises their beliefs and practices. They aren't outlaws, their basic beliefs aren't crimes, so what level of legitimacy are they gaining that they didn't already have, without even considering what politicians they pay? I would argue that a big institution being granted an exemption on taxes is the single biggest way you can legitimise something in your law-based society. Not just that, but it elevates them over all other institutions. You're saying 'this thing is so special, right and important that we must do everything to help it financially prosper'.
About that Robert Tilton farting preacher video: I remember seeing that video on a VHS that a friend of mine loaned me in middle school. This was about 1998, and it also had the Winnebago Man clip after it, as well.
I had never laughed harder in my life up until that point.
There's a whole series of Robert Tilton/farting preacher videos on RUclips. One's entitled-Pastor Gas. All of them gut- busting laughter.
I haven't made it to that part in the video yet, but I'm already laughing!
It's important to note that Bill Gates didn't make MS-DOS (which later became Windows). MS-DOS was originally QDOS that he bought from Seattle Computer Products and modified. The person who built the "better mouse trap" got a small licensing sum up front and never saw a dime afterward.
I knew Farting Preacher would get a shoutout on this show. I was just waiting for it. I remember seeing that when I was twelve or something; laughed my ass off.
Renegade Vile I was 33 the first time I saw Farting Preacher. Still laughed my butt off
Hi Seth you need to do another update to this, love your podcasts and many walk in the same shoes that you do-used to- many thanks, you have kept me sane since I left the church- was so angry for a while- getting there now.
When I registered for some college courses for educator's professional development, I was told I couldn't take the classes of my choice without an MMR booster. Good thing, because there were several cluster outbreaks in my state, in my immediate area, over the last few years.
Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool"
What's that guy's name that you mention at the 24:00 mark? "Crap-load Dollar"? Ranks right up there with a financial adviser named "Made-off".
William Haigh ...good one, you made me laugh.
Creflo Dollar.
Best show yet. I did a series on corrupt preachers and this pod cast nailed it on info.
Seth love your southern accents lmao
Seth,
You are the best. I love your show.
Your voice sounds entirely different on this upload video when compared to the blogtalk file.
"Sell everything you own,give it to the poor,take up your cross and follow me" "Do not even take an extra robe with you" "The birds have nests,and the foxes have holes,but the son of man hath nowhere to lay his head" "Silver and gold have I none,but what i have I share with you"~The Bible...sounds to me like they're treating god like a slot machine,put in a prayer/money and out pops prosperity.
Update on Olsteen: a plumber found a bunch of money in his Church's bathroom wall when he was called to fix a leak issue.
I think that the Church had filed an insurance claim for money that was missing from the Church
My favorite Robert Tilton quote: I ain't takin' no vow of poverty!
The collection plates themselves can actually get pretty expensive ironically.
Love your banter and accent when imitating the pastor and laughed my buns off. Just watched the sex and stupidity video that was awesome 👍😎💯
Marjo Gortner also tried his hand at acting in the 70's he had a part in the movie Earthquake with Charlton Heston.
I applaud your honesty with this re-upload.
I think it would be interesting if the church members said to themselves, "I think Pastor has enough money now," & stopped giving.
We're all guilty of imagining that our range of emotional responses is what's normal & anything that deviates too far can't possibly be genuine bcoz we can't relate. I too have been told by people who I consider 'unreasonably' irritable/grumpy with an 'unnecessarily negative' outlook that I'm too patient & smile too often,so I must be faking light-heartedness...I just wonder how people can possibly get angry about things that I think can be readily resolved (even if they're not inconsequential)
It's comforting to know that only mortal temptations such as cash and sex are corrupting the church rather than a really well made martini! LOL
The farting preacher is my go to for a quick laugh. 😂
much respect seth "preaching" by example. when you get something wrong, you make it right and own up to it . awesome show as always
My brother worked for The Holy Land Experience, and Jan Crouch was his boss. True story. I saw her from a distance while watching a show he was in once. It was so ridiculous. Her “style” threw up all over that park.
True. Every other non-profit has to fill out 990s and 501c3 forms, and on the IRS' website it states that churches can fill them out too, but aren't required to. That's complete bullshit. There can't be full separation of church & state when the church is getting benefits like this; that's technically respecting religious establishment.
"There's a word I'm looking for but I can't place it"
That's called Presque Vu
And they will condemn out of hand storefront fortune tellers, absolute bold-faced hypocrisy.
The TBN lawsuits sound like a Jerry Springer show!
Seth's Oklahoma impression though!!!! i cant!! im dying over here!! LOL
I love when he slips back into "Oklahoma Believer in JAYSUS!"
I live close to where he does and hear it a lot
It cracks me up.
I met a pastor/bishop/prophet who used this prosperity to try to manipulate me into going into business with his wife to build money & a legacy for his kids. I saw his focus on wealth & material that I kindly said “no”. I was therefore labeled as unsubmissive & rebellious by him & his family.
He saw himself as a prophet of God and having the right to come into people’s lives to “correct” them. Most of this correction was based on his own opinions and to try to twist people into what he wanted them to become for him. It was torturous to be his “sheep” & I still am tormented to this day by what I encountered and the spiritual abuse. I hope these monsters pay for what they teach/prophesy/preach/twist.
i hope they pay to.. these ppl rsome of the most awful ppl
Your integrity is inspiring.
Loved this podcast. Too funny, so true
end of the night, when I'm making my notes, I think, "yeah, well, if they're that stupid, I'll take their money." But when it comes time to send the follow-up e-mails, I give them a miss. Really, if you're stressed, your brain can turn to spaghetti and it can be helpful to have someone help you sort through it, but if you want me to tell you if you're going to marry your boyfriend instead of deciding that together with him, I'd rather not have you in my chat room.
13.5 million dollars to build the Daybreak Temple, 800,000 dollars to build every Mormon Church, and they are on every city block in utah. They do NOT need your money
I remember seeing a wikipedia list of televangelist hall of shame, and I tried looking it up again and it's not there anymore (it says it does not exist). I found that another person put it in their blog on the blogspot.
I work for an accounting firm that specializes in religious organizations and similar nonprofits. It's equal parts unsurprising and bizarre to hear all these names I'm used to seeing constantly attached to large sums of money, usually coded as "donations".
I'm ashamed to admit this, but when I read the word 'Ministry', I thought of The Ministry of Magic from the Harry Potter books! It took the hottest of minutes for me to link it to the church 'ministry'...
The root problem is: scamming that involves con man who are claiming to get info by supernatural means (making stuff up and acting as if god, spirit, dead relative, etc. communicated it) is somehow seen as legal endeavor.
Seth, before I lost the faith, I liked to listen to Joel Osteen and I don't remember him ever using prosperity doctrine. He gets a lot of his money from speaking and books. I'm sure your resources are better than mine, but maybe double check this info. When it comes to christian message, I'd rather people listen to Joel than a majority of Christians out there.
I agree, it's crazy as hell. People were, and are still mad that Scientology became a church some decades ago, but technically, since they have enough followers or whatever, they were to establish themselves as such. All religions are like that really, but like you said, it's like somebody can make up anything and turn it into a "church" and make tax free money off of these people with nobody knowing where that money goes. Somebody should petition to make churches pay tax.
You should revisit this subject.
... now, more so than ever ... greedy leeches abound!
Hey Seth, how about having an IRS official on your program to answer some very pointed questions?
I don't understand why people ask "how are you?" when they just want a blanket answer of good, fine, alright, etc
TurtleJen. Most likely it us just someone who's being polite. As they seem to be looking for a noncommital answer, give them something different. Like 'shitty thanks' or my answer, 'upright and caffeinated'. l figgure, keep them smiling.
When you donate to the church you get financial blessings from God.What?Are these people mentally deranged?Why wouldn't these pastors get their financial blessings directly from their God ?The power of brainwashing.
If Christians understood tithing meant 10% of everything you own not just 10% of your income they would shit a brick.
YES, I did watch "Robert Tilton farting preacher " I dam near died laughing it is worth the watch ,Pee before watching😂 though,just a warning !!!
Thank you so much for the warning. As Australians my husband and I, we had never heard of this farting preacher. We haven't laughed this much since March, and we certainly needed this😂😂😂. Stay safe and sane 😊
LOL it kills me the way you say "homosexual" like a pastor. Must be a remnant from the past.
Oh my...l haven't thought about Mike Warnke in years! Now l understand "Slap it in 'B' for boogie". {Zoom}
What if we all gave 10% to help people who lack food, shelter, proper clothing & medical care? . . . Like Jesus said in the parable of the sheep & the goats. Would be a different world. 🤔
This reminds me that I also heard about different version of donation scam that some people whom I care about buy into. They are convinced that when they donate 10% to the church, remaining 90% are blessed by God and worth more than 100% of the money that they originally had. How do you argue against so asinine belief when all the proof they seem to need is personal experience like strange gut feeling which leads to noticing that cashier gave wrong change... ?
Oh, goody, I get to listen to it again! I might toss this into my "Watch Later" list so I can have it on hand...
This brings something up that’s very similar outside of religion but Oprah Winfrey has surrounded herself and made famous some grifters. Most people know who I’m talking about but I’m going to list the two that come to mind. Dr. Oz add Dr. Phil. I see people holding them up just like they do these grifting ministers.
Inquiring mind wants to know ... what was your first clue?
Great show.
Incantation = prayers
power words = amen - Hallelujah - praise jesus
magic = miracles
screws with ppl lives... ppl waste their lives in religion.
On the issue of how sorry you should feel for the people who willingly fork over their money to these ministers, I actually have to deal with this issue on a personal level. I have a part-time job reading Tarot cards via video chat (I know, but bear with me). I do give a lot of people helpful advice and guidance, but I also get a lot of people who want me to give them all the answers and don't want to take responsibility for making the decisions for their own lives. I do the best I can, and at
It ain't necessarily so, It ain't necessarily so, It ain't what your lible to read in the bible it ain't necessarily so.
I just feel absolutely horrible for all the humble believers who fail to get rich and wonder what they're doing wrong, why they're faith still isn't great enough, why the money they donate (even though they can't afford it) isn't resulting in a five-fold return. People like my own mother, faithfully writing her monthly 10% tithe to a huge megachurch in the San Francisco Bay Area, now with no savings in her retirement.
I wasn't familiar with Warnke back in the day, but I do remember Lauren Stratford. I picked up a copy of "Satan's Underground" back when it was everywhere, and I gotta tell you, I wasn't surprised when the publisher pulled and pulped it when Stratford was exposed as a fraud. Though maybe I should have been, they were making good money off of her, and they could have played the "Satanic attack" card.
I grew up in a family with a father who believes in Christian Science, yet he never indoctrinated me or my sister, or forced us not to use medicine or get vaccinations. He was at least moral enough naturally to realized that I should make those choices for myself. For I now hear the horror stories and with irony; "there but for the grace of God etc." My fathers love was always with us we were never shunned, his religion was completely a personal thing to him and he was not a church goer. In spite of this as I know realized that I am and Atheist and have been one for a while I still fear telling my family that I am. The hardest pill is that my sister given the choice has chosen Evangelism and did so in her college years, her choice as an adult. This lead though to a good husband, a wonderful man and devoted father to his four children my three nieces and nephew, the only thing I fear is being removed from there lives.
I wish I could go to the PA one, but it's pricy and the daily commute is long so It's want to stay on a hotel. It would be awesome. Come to my state!
Jezabel is fair game now Seth! It would be nice to catch her outside of church tho. I tend to have a combustible presents these days.
MP3 link? It's not on blogtalk yet.
what was with the reload? i never actually got around to watch the original upload
Great show Seth....I'm glad you called out Paul and Jan Crouch, they may be the worse thing on TV.
What fun!....I love confessing the other fella's sins. LOL
I wonder how these mega-pastors break down; how many truly are believers and I think they're doing god's work, and how many aren't believers at all and are knowingly fleecing the flock. Maybe most are somewhere in the middle?
Tulsa Mega Churches have had their fair share of scandals. The hypocrisy boggles the mind. Victory Christian Center ended up all over the news recently after the latest of the scandals. I used to go there at one point and for years really respected Billie Joe and Sharon Daughtry. No more. The scandals started with Billie Joe and then after his death his kids got into the act.
Did anyone get the "God's not dead" ad before the video? Lol
times like this call for adblocker...
Got that a few months ago. I thought there was gonna be some kind of gimmick, but adblocker is amazing! So much precious time saved.
although it is helpful. Keep in mind that ads, even viewing them can help a youtuber out. For that reason i stopped using ad blocker on youtube. If you want to help your favorite youtubers it may not be such a great idea.
Of course, my bet you have not the courage to actually watch the movie God's not Dead..of course not
lol!!!!
I know a couple of Megachurch pastors who got laid more than a rockstar. I am so glad I deconverted.
Late to the thread but this reminds me of the Tracey Chapman song... Oh Lord won't you buy me a Merceds Benz.
That song was written by Kris Kristofferson, and recorded by Janis Joplin.
God wants me to have a Lambo.
I ain't ever seen a "miracle" even on You Tube. For Christ sake, someone show us something so we can "see" that it is not all "talk".
ZOMG Marjoe! I stumbled on the documentary a couple of years ago, and, just wow. The manipulation, the studied showmanship (he cribbed moves from Mick Jagger), really, I think that film should be mandatory viewing. And really, I think a lot of these "name it and claim it" types aren't really believers. They take medications when they're sick, have surgery (a lot of it cosmetic) and then go onstage and tell others to throw away their medications.
If you see them on TV, . . . chances are, they're FAR more interested in your money . . . than your "spiritual life".
I share your disgust in these crooks! That's right, I said it!
I especially liked 'truth with a capital T'. Perhaps 'truth with a capital BS' would be more accurate though. Great show.
I've just discovered this podcast since rejecting christianity just 1 week ago.. I'm trying to un-doctrinate the last 12mths of listening to nothing but christian apologetics.. can anyone relate to where I'm at?
"I guess Jezebel was busy!" lol