preeeeeetty much. and you'll get punished with hellfire for not having been given the holy spirit in order to let you believe. christian morality is the best. /s
There's no need to respect ridiculous beliefs, it's an insult in a way - patronizing someone with dumb beliefs is like patting a child on the head and not explaining things as though it'd be over their head. Not challenging dumb beliefs protects bad ideas rather than scrutinizing them to be better. In the idea marketplace, the best ideas should be given more attention, and if one cannot defend their ideas - that alone should give them a reason to reconsider.
@@lanao2377 That reminds when I quoted "wives should submit to their husbands" and the person said " But that is Old Testament stuff" and carried on to defend women rights in the Bible. That made me facepalm as it is in the New Testament.
@@brookie18cookie70 shows how much you know about the Bible. wives submit themselves to their husbands and husbands love their wives and it works out wonderfully as this is God's design. The man is the protector and the provider and the woman is the nurturer and helpmeet.
first year engineering students could design a much better eye than god did. btw what's with the horrible design of a trachea and esophagus leading to one opening guaranteeing that thousands of people every year will choke to death on their food. As Neil Tyson says it's not a hard request: dolphins have two separate tubes - not a hard request for people.
Regarding the theists who claim atheism is just another religion. Ask them if they'd sign a petition granting atheist organizations the same tax breaks that all the other religions receive. I haven't had any takers on that proposition yet.
@Jeff B Bad idea. Theists already try to claim that evolution is a religion and not science, and if atheist organizations were to claim the same tax breaks as a religion then theists would use it as an argument to remove evolution from school science classrooms.
@@EvieDoesRUclips As much as I like the 'put your money where your mouth is' view, I have to admit that what Evie says is true. That's one area in which Pastafarianism has actually failed. Believers are pointing at FSM and saying "If they get tax breaks then we should keep ours!" in the usual complete lack of self awareness. Note that I don't know if Pastafarians do get tax breaks. Just using that as an example of someone using the parody to justify further material worthy of parody. Parody fails if the parodied takes it seriously. Unfortunately.
My youngest daughter latched onto the flying spaghetti monster as a preteen and I loved how she would say his suggestions were so much kinder. Instead of " thou shall not" it was "I'd really rather you wouldn't." This is the same child that made me proud when Bible thumpers came to our door and asked her, " have you found Jesus? " she answered without hesitation....yeap, he was behind the sofa the whole time, who'd have thought ? And shut the door. She's raising free thinking children. ❤
What a beautiful wrapup, Seth. Explaining how the apologists are the reason for you realizing you are an atheist. I have a similar conviction. It was getting into Christian apologetics in order to defend my faith better that drove me to atheism eventually.
Of all of the videos on this channel, this is probably my favorite. I love the introduction, and the explanations amuse me like watching extreme nerd fans trying to explain why the show was impeccable and the creators could do no wrong.
The Ark story is much simpler to debunk. Start at the beginning. A 600 year old illiterate farmer, his two 100 year old farmer sons, their wives and two children supposedly built the largest wooden boat ever, first try they got it perfect and leak free. Or they also built one hell of a bilge pump.....never mentioned. And they did this in a part of the world where THERE ARE NO TREES of sufficient size to provide the massive timbers you need to build huge wooden structures, ESPECIALLY ones that have to float and survive the worst storm in history.
kim weaver i like the example that bill nye gave against ken ham. He showed the Wyoming schooner and explained that it was made by the best shipwrights available, but its size caused it to writhe and bend and ultimately sink. it was only 75% of the size of the supposed "ark".
JW - apologist : Noah was able to be 600 yeats old in perfect shape because the people was not that much corrupted through sin back in this days - his DNA was therefor cleaner and healthier. Over generations the peole become more syc and live less long because of the sins duplicated with every generation... He was able to build that gigantic ark because god told him haw - gods advise. He was able to do that only with the little help from his family because god thold him so. Haw was he able to do that in that short time. The elephants transport the trees - because god thold them to do so. What eat all the animals ? - they dont have to eat - god put them in a sleep - so they dont have to eat. Haw they not starve in the sleep ? - Gods magic... Its cra - cra - crazy - The JW - have the worst indoktrination - they start with the 4 years old and they hsve the answer for ALL -
I am grateful to Christian apologists for making me realize I could give up blind faith, because there was *evidence* for my beliefs. Thanks to the apologists, I had evidence and didn't need faith anymore. Then, after I later realized the evidence wasn't any good after all, I was no longer willing to fall back onto the safety net of faith and so I could accept that Christianity wasn't true.
One of my favorite comments I've heard about Noah's ark, and I don't know how accurate this actually is, is that if you put two of every creature into pokeballs, eliminating the need of food and "waste" while at the same time reducing the size of most animals, you would still not be able to fit them all on Noah's ark given the dimensions in the bible
I actually did that once in a sense. A minecraft mod let me capture all the mobs in pokeballs. Just two of each _minecraft_ mob barely fit on that ark.
10:24 ABSOLUTELY TRUE! If the Bible is inerrant, inspired word of an omniscient, all knowing God, that cares for us and keeps it current to guide our lives, the following things should not exist: 1. Bible differing from reality. 2. Bible self-contradictions. 3. Bible contradicting findings & discoveries. 4. Bible miss-translations. 5. Several Bible versions. 6. Bible editing by religions. 7. Omissions and self-censorship of passages. 8. Literal passages changed into metaphorical. 9. Apologists.
The abundance of gospel documents is easily explained by the fact that the first Christian emperors had them mass-produced and handed out to the populace, and that they *burned libraries with 'üagan' works* in them, which would include the Odissey, since it features an angry Poseidon as the primary antagonist. Before it became the roman state reliion, there's only a thin paper trail of not even a single full document, but fragments that dries up in the second century. Besides, Christianity might've easily died out during the migration period if not for a single preacher who translated it to the visigoth language. If not for it, and the military success of that tribe, we might be worshipping (or arguing the nonexistence of) Thor today.
I would like to ask the lady if it is actually possible for anyone to hold beliefs and not live by them or not act on them. A person's belief system is their world view- it is the lens through which they see the world and the guide by which they interact with it. This is why believers lovingly pass their faith, culture and traditions unto their children and share it with their friends. The earth is not both flat and round, bile is never both green and white. No matter if choose to agree to disagree, the truth does not have an infinitely wide spectrum. The right to free speech is not the right to be correct or to be non-comical. I'll agree with H L Mencken where he said "We must respect the other fellow's religion but only in the sense and the respect that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.". Here, permit me to replace religion with opinions.
Great podcast as always. I agree that indoctrination and not teaching critical thinking to kids is dangerous. I was raised as a fundamentalist and was taught evolution was wrong and just trust the bible. I am now an atheist and I would credit critical thinking as the main reason since those beliefs did not hold up to the scrutiny I apply to my work. I think critical thinking, above all else, needs to be taught to all kids, because if we teach them how to think, the possibilities are endless
@TheThinkingAtheist INCREDIBLE PODCAST! I LOVE YOUR MATERIAL! I LOVE THIS PODCAST! I like what you said towards the end about how you were raised in a religious family, like me, Baptist, which was just CRAZY, and it was "Get 'em while their young!" That's exactly how it was for me too! I was a Christian, but now atheist. It made even less sense as I got older and smarter. My grandparents are EXTREMELY religious! My grandfather told me last X-mas: "The Earth is 6000 years old." ULTIMATE FACEPALM!
Excellent podcast good sir! Man you really put the reality out there on the religious dinner table to get served harder than elbow shots at a basketball game!
I can still remember being a kid and having a greater emotional intelligence and reasoning capacity than the adults around me. My sister would constantly say "what do you know? You're just a little kid." And, I would inevitably be right. But, I know exactly what you are talking about when talking to believers. And...they will continue to talk to you in that same tone even as you get older. They talk to you as if you are "just going through a phase."
Nice response to the teacher who says respect everything in all circumstances. It's like saying there are no wrong answers on school tests. You have to earn respect.
Thats not what she meant she meant respect people right to free thought as long as it doesnt become action. If WB started executing gays she obviously would call for the group to be imprisoned to put down militarily. She meant you have to respect right to think absurd things. What do you have asbergers? Cant read people?
@TheThinkingAtheist I agree with you I bet you get many many calls so to keep the show flowing and not go on forever because instead on an hour you would be on all day just talking to people some need more time and others don't, I love your show.
Being a trained Christian apologist & in divinity studies & theology (but now a staunch Atheist & anti-christ 6.9 on the Dawkins Scale & a hard 7.0 on the same scale in concern the Abrahamic faiths) this just tickled my pickle & gave me the giggles (like reading much of the Bible, in any form, does now). But ... now training in Atheist Epistemology & trained in Secular Philosophy (having a DPhil) I'm glad for my Christian training because it makes me a well armed & formidable aponent.
question the big provider in the sky. I love this podcast. To know that there are many more like me out there is comforting. My loss is still an unfortuneate fact in my life, but I am grateful for the deliverance, the freedom I and my wife now experience. Argue as some will, the fact is simple and easy to udnerstand: there simply is no eveidence, not even in the minutest form, of the possibility that a great spirit who lives in the sky made us and even gives a damn what happens.
At about 48:00 in, I was reminded of something one an elementary school teacher once told our class... gosh, I must have been about 8 or 9. She told us, "Respect should be something that is honestly earned." I'm 41 now & I still remember that.
@TheThinkingAtheist I do agree that in this episode you were rushing and talking over some of the callers. You still did a good job and kept the flow of the program as well though.
Arvidius ツ LeVay Satanism is a religion & its growing faster then any other religion that's because it is non-spiritual, it does not involve worship of a deity, Satan and Baphomet are only used as symbol's, its a Atheistic philosophy which mean's they are all Atheist's.
+Serino Modica Atheism doesn't want you, satanism is a loser's club. Atheists tend to be smarter, that's true, but it doesn't apply to you as your poor grasp of grammar reveals. Whether you worship a deity or not, LeVey satanism is still a religion, it's a cult and it's just as silly as any other religion. You're the second person I've encountered trying to associate atheism with satanism, and that other person turned out to be a fundamentalist Christian. So I'll ask you the same question that I asked him: Do you believe in god? Say you don't believe in Jesus. Don't say "satanists don't believe in Jesus", I'm asking _you_, do _you_ believe in Jesus?
Eve Again Hey I'm not here to defend satanism. It is annoying when Christians compare atheists to them. But one can have poor grammar and still be smart. I have atrocious grammar and I'm still pretty smart, even if I say so myself. LOL
When I WAS a Christian many year's ago I always prayed to a so-called God to watch over my 4 kid's and protect them. Well if God was real 2 of my kid's wouldn't be DEAD!!! They were both only 38 year's old when they passed away.
First off, you have a great name. As for the rest, that is very frustrating. I was actually thinking about this on my way home from work last night; about how often people talk to someone young as if they are stupid simply because they believe they are not knowledgeable. It is a good rule of communication, to never overestimate someone's knowledge, but never underestimate their intelligence.
When you choose your beliefs based on what is tangible and credible rather than what your parents or your preacher (Or your book) tells you to believe, there is a true freedom in life. Ever since I became an atheist (and a materialist for that matter) I have been more inquisitive and intrigued about everything. That being said, religion is a part of human nature which has been ingrained in all cultures since we first came into being - you can live a happy life with your own beliefs too.
An apologist and I were involved in a discussion of the ages of things. He wanted me to see why creation is about 6K years as we know them. I asked if god was a bit older, say a million years old? Who created god, since all complex things need a creator? He said that god is a special case, didn't have a creator as he is eternal. Eternal? I asked if that means that he waited an eternity to create our universe and the species of ape that he wanted to engage in a special relationship. Doesn't seem like he was in a rush to get to know us. God waited for ETERNITY to get around to us. Apologist's eyes crossed.
I had a wonderful encounter with an apologist in Seattle. I asked and confirmed his name, and proceeded to ask how he slept at night in front of his wife and son. Something for them to remember. Yep, I'm a bit of an asshole, but I relished in reminding him that not everyone buys his bullshit.
A desperate bunch of goofs desperately trying to force a desperately vapid belief system into a desperately small corner of reality. And losing. At every turn. On every front.
First, your created a false assumption that God came from somewhere. That's like asking "What does blue smell like?" Blue is not in the category of things that have a smell, so the question is flawed, just like the question you asked. God is not in the category of things that are created or caused--He simply exists. Second, we know that from nothing, nothing comes. Thus, if there were ever a time when there was absolutely nothing in existence, then nothing would have ever come into existence. But things do exist. Therefore, since there could never have been absolutely nothing, something had to have always been in existence. The ever-existing thing is what we call God. God is the uncaused being that caused everything else to come into existence. God is the uncreated creator who created the universe and everything in it.
Anton Thery You are making a completely unsupported assertion. There is no evidence that gawd exists and so there is no "nature" of gawd or any discernible characteristics. You define gawd into existence and that is a supremely flawed starting point.
When you say "there is no evidence that gawd exists" and therefore conclude I have made an unsupported assertion, you have forgotten the very elementary nature of logic. You have no evidence that God does not exist. Therefore, you rebuttal is unsupported.
Richard Dawkins' book 'The Selfish Gene' that I picked up in Grade School was a real game changer for me. I can't believe my Parents let me read it .... and I actually hid it from them .... it was treated as taboo as pornography & was a bit of contraband & thus made it exciting to read for me. Lol. Thank you Mr. Dawkins
My story is identical to the host. I am still journeying out of the religion, however, like the host of this program, apologists were ultimately responsible for the blinds finally leaving the eyes of my intellect. I studied after the top in the Christian religion industry; William Lane Craig, Phillip Johnson, Michael Behe, Hank Hannagraffe, R.C. Sproll, et al. The last 12 years of my Christian life was dedicated to not less than 5-7 hours of intense study of the bible, 10-12 hours on Sat./Sun.
I forgot who said this, but I think it is a fitting quote for this podcast: "No one ever disbelieved in God more than when philosophers tried to prove him."
Feelings are often irrational, they can look like an enemy of logic and reason. However, logic by itself cannot solve the problems and inconsistencies of the world. Experience is what brings the two together, and makes it possible for us to decide what's true/real. And that's why religion cannot ever beat scepticism, because it already denied logic in favor of feelings, while openly discourages us from experiencing things by ourselves.
Wow this is so funny. I remember a long time ago when I used to go to church, a priest analyzed that exact passage in the introduction. He said the eye of the needle was some escape hole in the walls of a city used a night when the doors were closed or something like that.
Entertaining as always. When listening to this I´m glad that I live in a country that has a population with statisticly 60% Atheistst. Saying that the Swedish church (protestant) are BIG apologists, they change the Bible constantly to be as "modern" as possible i.e they decided that hell didn´t exist and now has a female homosexual Archbishop. I find this very amuzing. I love your shows, keep it up!!
Well...😃 She believes that her beliefs do not necessarily inform her actions. She is acting on that belief by not acting on her unmentioned but potentially odious other beliefs.
The intro was funny. :) Heres a couple more problems with the ark. If the water covered Mt Everest, ....FREEZE! Im doubting all our atmospheric levels would adjust in just 20 or so days of rain, then readjust afterwards. The cold would be catastrophic. Also, adding 3 miles of mass to this planet would increase its gravity. For most animals, this would crush them under their own weight. And last, where does the water go? Evaporate in 20 days? That is sure to cause a green house effect.
Strange when you think about it that everything ate plants before the fall of man and yet the only animals that became carnivores after the fall were the ones that once ate coconuts.
welcome to the tap dance! the dogs might not have been the best example because of the way that the species has been adapted from the initial wolf for various human needs over time. but at the same time, there are pics from many ancient peoples showing dogs, and there is even footprints of the dog following people into caves where petroglyphs are found(i think they were in france)
From what I understand the whole Eye of the needle, is referencing to the "Needle" gate in the city that was much smaller and used at night. It was possible to get a camel (non-human animal ) onto it's knees and squeeze one through.
Pressure moves. In order to change, we need to move it from where it’s from to a place where it will be right for everyone. Opposing views creates opposing force. We can’t reform anything when we stay passive because we’re so concern about respect even those ideas that don’t deserve it. We need to discuss and debate ideas we disagree so we can understand each other and perhaps reach a consensus where it can be acceptable to everyone.
Awesome show. My story is very much like yours so i totally related to everything. I can imagine the consequences you faced because I faced them too. The lack of evidence, the fact that *these* people here are the ones God chose to talk through? Hell yeah, now everything makes sense.
There was an apologist named Dr. Fazale Rana who came to our college to talk about why synthetic biology disproves evolution and proves creationism. Needless to say, he didn't convince me or my skeptic friend, but I did take a lot of good notes, pics and recordings.
There is a difference between ridiculing the ideas and the person holding the idea. But when a person claimed to be defined by a bad idea then the line is blurred...
The Noah's Ark story is the very easiest to explain with apologetics. First, when it talks about "all the animals" it is really primarily refering to the animals familiar to those who lived in the region-- or specifically Noah's farm animals. When it talks about the "world" being flooded, it was just what constituted the world to Noah which could have just been the valley he lived in. The story then works pretty well.
expert: and unknown quantity (X) under intense pressure (spurt) :) once again, thank you.i hear your story, and the story of some others and i hear my story.i sometimes feel very stupid when i think of how long it took me to see the questions i had were valid and not a 'lack of faith'. however, no one in the atheist community has made me feel stupid.reason and logic demand that if we accept a false idea, we change. there is no shame in admitting we are wrong, and change is a great thing...
On the topic of the lady calling in, saying that ridicule will not change someone's mind, I have to respectfully disagree. The only reason I became a Skeptic, Atheist and Humanist, was precisely because someone laughed in my face when I made a couple comments on the things I believed. Even though that did hurt me and I got angry, it did make me step back, and re-evaluate what it is that I actually believe, and why I believe it. Someone else's ridicule, helped to set me free.
The eye is fun. If you wanna do the blind spot thing, get a bit of paper and draw a + and a O on it about two inches apart. Cover your left eye and look at the left symbol. Move the paper slowly closer. You should see the other symbol vanish at a certain distance. That's the blind spot. The brain covers the spot with what it expects to be there based on the surroundings, so in this instance the brain covers the symbol with the white of the paper. The inverted image one is even more fun. I don't have a source for it, but I heard of an experiment that involved people wearing goggles that inverted the image they saw. So de-inverted what the brain does. Everything upside down. After a few days of bumping into things and dropping test tubes and whatnot while wearing these things, they wake up one morning while still wearing the goggles and discover the world is the right way up. Take the goggles off and it's all upside down. The brain 'corrected' what it was processing. Forcing them to re-correct back to normal. This MIGHT be just an amusing tale, as I've not seen anything confirming it and I heard it many years ago, but if you consider how adaptive and flexible the brain is it's a fairly believable tale, no? If anyone has a source for this, I'd love to be able to cite it. So please pop a reply in if you find it.
To Flo: There are some wonderful deconversion stories on youtube which can help you understand how intelligent people can be religious and then come to atheism. Evid3nc3's "Why I am no longer a Christian" and LovingDoubt's "Journey to Atheism" are probably my favorites.
“Why did He not have His flood first and kill the devil before making man and woman?” That’s a really good point. I hadn’t considered that before. I mean, if having humanity allegedly “wicked” is grounds to drown all the other animals, why is this not adequate grounds to drown the devil?”
Great late night listening, great to nod off to. British radio is shit. I live in a country where the vast majority are innately atheist and even the Christians I know don't believe in hellfire and damnation. I really feel for someone who is told that when a kid.
Children who finally realize how silly it was that they believed Santa was real and their parents were enjoying lying to them are most likely to eventually take a closer look at religions as a similar ploy to sell you something you do not need. Any superstition is poison to rational use of the human mind. Many people can and will use your superstition against you and assume you already believe in god. What god? Which one? The one with no last name?
Hmmm... Loved the Entire thing. It's just recently that I've found any such great source for atheistic rethorics, as The Thinking Atheist. Love what you are doing, love watching the material you put out! Oh, and just a quick sidenote: it's a common misconception that there are polarbears in Norway. Not sure if there was some sarcasm there I didn't quite catch, but just in case: There are indeed none. Perhaps in some polar zoo somewhere, but that's about it ;P Norwegian thinking atheist out.
I get the one about believers having a magical understanding a lot. I tell them they have it backwards. Proof doesn't follow belief. Belief follows proof.
Ok we are officially going in circles. A screw is one whole piece of metal, that is molded into different sections. Its not a collection of parts that came together, it is one peice that has been shaped, into having a head, shank, etc. Its not a conglomerate of pieces that came together forming a system. Its just one whole peice of metal.
When I asked one believer 'nobody else had a boat and noticed it raining and flooding and thought to get on the boat with a fishing pole and some water?" he said 'nobody had boats, they lived on Pangea' Ok, just have yourself some fun with that one.
Mockery is an important tool in education. You must first use group pressure to break the back of a delusion. Only then can you teach the truth. People under the influence of group pressure can believe anything on bad reasoning. They are immune to the truth or reason. But mock them sufficiently, and by enough contemporaries, and they slowly lose their insane certainty and become teachable again.
Absolutely fascinating podcast! I think you give that woman with the Jersey accent WAY too much credit, though; she insulted your intelligence from start to finish, and frankly I'm shocked that she's allowed to teach.
Listening to it again, I think she was lying to you. I think she was trying to trap you into making some statement in favor of bigotry, but you didn't take her bait.
Long time listener, but only on RUclips. This is the first time I wished I had listened to the show live so I could call in. The caller who said we need to respect others opinions. PURE BULLSHIT! As stated by other posters, we don't need to respect other opinions when you know and can prove they're wrong. Especially when they make a point to be unreasonable. O'Reilly is the perfect example. He doesn't debate, he doesn't ask questions, he just attacks. And I'm suppose to respect that? Hell no!
One apologetics maneuver that drives me nuts is the attack on evolution that stems from a complete misunderstanding of the theory. My favorite is, "The Cambrian Explosion baffles evolutionists and proves God created all the phyla at once," argument that fails to acknowledge the millions of years in which the 'explosion' took place and the absolute absence of modern-day animal and plant forms during the Cambrian period.
Any "failing" in "perfect creation" is almost always explained about by Christian apologists as being due to the intrusion of sin into the world after the fall. Sin is their get out of jail free card.
![Ice On My Teeth - ATEEZ エイティーズ 에이티즈 [Music Bank] | KBS WORLD TV 241115](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/c-n92OgbbwA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Chris Langan - The Interview THEY Didn't Want You To See - CTMU [Full Version; Timestamps]](/img/1.gif)
What every apologist must learn: it's not easy acting as defense attorney for a mass murderer.
Being a Christian apologist does put one in roughly the same position as the defense lawyers at Nuremburg.
@@jenniferbrewer5370 Being a christian apologist calls into question the intellectual honesty of the person defending questionable dogma.
"You don't understand because you haven't accepted the Holy Spirit." --- Translation: "Unless you believe it already, you can't expect to believe it."
Someone I know said the same thing about a fortune teller when I expressed my desire to skeptically test said person.
Another translation: "In order to believe the delusions, you must already be delusional."
@@etawhitii then state a counter argument 🙄
preeeeeetty much. and you'll get punished with hellfire for not having been given the holy spirit in order to let you believe. christian morality is the best. /s
Pretty much religion in a nutshell😂
There's no need to respect ridiculous beliefs, it's an insult in a way - patronizing someone with dumb beliefs is like patting a child on the head and not explaining things as though it'd be over their head. Not challenging dumb beliefs protects bad ideas rather than scrutinizing them to be better. In the idea marketplace, the best ideas should be given more attention, and if one cannot defend their ideas - that alone should give them a reason to reconsider.
one guy tried to tell me that slavery isn't wrong.
@@lanao2377 That reminds when I quoted "wives should submit to their husbands" and the person said " But that is Old Testament stuff" and carried on to defend women rights in the Bible. That made me facepalm as it is in the New Testament.
exactly why atheism needs to be challenged and addressed
@@brookie18cookie70
shows how much you know about the Bible. wives submit themselves to their husbands and husbands love their wives and it works out wonderfully as this is God's design.
The man is the protector and the provider and the woman is the nurturer and helpmeet.
@@protruth1so address and challenge it… providing evidence of your god would be a great start.
I've started listening to the archived podcast, starting with episode 1, and I had to come here and tell you how wonderful the intro is.
To quote Patton Oswalt "I have to acknowledge your beliefs. I don't have to respect them".
Ooer, I like that one. I also like the idea that if we have to respect their belief, they have to respect our lack of belief.
"never argue with an idiot. they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" Mark Twain
Never argue with an idiot in public. The audience can't tell the difference. - No idea, but it gets trotted out with Twain's experience quote.
first year engineering students could design a much better eye than god did. btw what's with the horrible design of a trachea and esophagus leading to one opening guaranteeing that thousands of people every year will choke to death on their food. As Neil Tyson says it's not a hard request: dolphins have two separate tubes - not a hard request for people.
Regarding the theists who claim atheism is just another religion. Ask them if they'd sign a petition granting atheist organizations the same tax breaks that all the other religions receive. I haven't had any takers on that proposition yet.
Yet those same theists have no problem with a destructive cult like Scientology having tax exempt status.....
لوون
@Jeff B Bad idea. Theists already try to claim that evolution is a religion and not science, and if atheist organizations were to claim the same tax breaks as a religion then theists would use it as an argument to remove evolution from school science classrooms.
@@EvieDoesRUclips As much as I like the 'put your money where your mouth is' view, I have to admit that what Evie says is true. That's one area in which Pastafarianism has actually failed. Believers are pointing at FSM and saying "If they get tax breaks then we should keep ours!" in the usual complete lack of self awareness.
Note that I don't know if Pastafarians do get tax breaks. Just using that as an example of someone using the parody to justify further material worthy of parody. Parody fails if the parodied takes it seriously. Unfortunately.
My youngest daughter latched onto the flying spaghetti monster as a preteen and I loved how she would say his suggestions were so much kinder. Instead of " thou shall not" it was "I'd really rather you wouldn't." This is the same child that made me proud when Bible thumpers came to our door and asked her, " have you found Jesus? " she answered without hesitation....yeap, he was behind the sofa the whole time, who'd have thought ? And shut the door. She's raising free thinking children. ❤
What a beautiful wrapup, Seth. Explaining how the apologists are the reason for you realizing you are an atheist.
I have a similar conviction. It was getting into Christian apologetics in order to defend my faith better that drove me to atheism eventually.
This episode was absolutely AWESOME!
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for an Episcopalian to stay sober for a weekend." -Presbyterians 22:7
Why did Jesus quit carpentry?
The wood and nails caused too much emotional trauma.
@@42apostate Lmao
Of all of the videos on this channel, this is probably my favorite. I love the introduction, and the explanations amuse me like watching extreme nerd fans trying to explain why the show was impeccable and the creators could do no wrong.
The Ark story is much simpler to debunk. Start at the beginning. A 600 year old illiterate farmer, his two 100 year old farmer sons, their wives and two children supposedly built the largest wooden boat ever, first try they got it perfect and leak free. Or they also built one hell of a bilge pump.....never mentioned. And they did this in a part of the world where THERE ARE NO TREES of sufficient size to provide the massive timbers you need to build huge wooden structures, ESPECIALLY ones that have to float and survive the worst storm in history.
kim weaver i like the example that bill nye gave against ken ham. He showed the Wyoming schooner and explained that it was made by the best shipwrights available, but its size caused it to writhe and bend and ultimately sink. it was only 75% of the size of the supposed "ark".
Matthew Galloway Obvious solution: God held it together with his magic duct tape.
first* storm in history. according to "muh scriptures", it had never rained before.
JW - apologist : Noah was able to be 600 yeats old in perfect shape because the people was not that much corrupted through sin back in this days - his DNA was therefor cleaner and healthier.
Over generations the peole become more syc and live less long because of the sins duplicated with every generation...
He was able to build that gigantic ark because god told him haw - gods advise.
He was able to do that only with the little help from his family because god thold him so.
Haw was he able to do that in that short time.
The elephants transport the trees - because god thold them to do so.
What eat all the animals ?
- they dont have to eat
- god put them in a sleep - so they dont have to eat.
Haw they not starve in the sleep ?
- Gods magic...
Its cra - cra - crazy -
The JW - have the worst indoktrination - they start with the 4 years old and they hsve the answer for ALL -
Respect is earned. Plain and simple. If everyone remained credulous we'd never rid ourselves of bad ideas, and bad people.
This podcast couldn't have come at a better time, having a terrible day- I needed this... Thanks man!
Thanks very much. You clearly put in a hell of a lot of time and hard work into making these podcasts. Much appreciated; respect and gratitude to you.
"Can't disprove him!" That's simply not how predicate logic works.
I am grateful to Christian apologists for making me realize I could give up blind faith, because there was *evidence* for my beliefs. Thanks to the apologists, I had evidence and didn't need faith anymore. Then, after I later realized the evidence wasn't any good after all, I was no longer willing to fall back onto the safety net of faith and so I could accept that Christianity wasn't true.
One of my favorite comments I've heard about Noah's ark, and I don't know how accurate this actually is, is that if you put two of every creature into pokeballs, eliminating the need of food and "waste" while at the same time reducing the size of most animals, you would still not be able to fit them all on Noah's ark given the dimensions in the bible
gotta catch em all eh?
I actually did that once in a sense. A minecraft mod let me capture all the mobs in pokeballs. Just two of each _minecraft_ mob barely fit on that ark.
I've listened to a lot of episodes. This is probably one of my favorite ones.
10:24 ABSOLUTELY TRUE!
If the Bible is inerrant, inspired word of an omniscient, all knowing God, that cares for us and keeps it current to guide our lives, the following things should not exist:
1. Bible differing from reality.
2. Bible self-contradictions.
3. Bible contradicting findings & discoveries.
4. Bible miss-translations.
5. Several Bible versions.
6. Bible editing by religions.
7. Omissions and self-censorship of passages.
8. Literal passages changed into metaphorical.
9. Apologists.
The abundance of gospel documents is easily explained by the fact that the first Christian emperors had them mass-produced and handed out to the populace, and that they *burned libraries with 'üagan' works* in them, which would include the Odissey, since it features an angry Poseidon as the primary antagonist. Before it became the roman state reliion, there's only a thin paper trail of not even a single full document, but fragments that dries up in the second century.
Besides, Christianity might've easily died out during the migration period if not for a single preacher who translated it to the visigoth language. If not for it, and the military success of that tribe, we might be worshipping (or arguing the nonexistence of) Thor today.
Great Pod cast, thoroughly enjoyed it.
I love all your shows, but seriously, this one is brilliant :D
I would like to ask the lady if it is actually possible for anyone to hold beliefs and not live by them or not act on them. A person's belief system is their world view- it is the lens through which they see the world and the guide by which they interact with it. This is why believers lovingly pass their faith, culture and traditions unto their children and share it with their friends. The earth is not both flat and round, bile is never both green and white. No matter if choose to agree to disagree, the truth does not have an infinitely wide spectrum. The right to free speech is not the right to be correct or to be non-comical. I'll agree with H L Mencken where he said "We must respect the other fellow's religion but only in the sense and the respect that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.". Here, permit me to replace religion with opinions.
Great podcast as always. I agree that indoctrination and not teaching critical thinking to kids is dangerous. I was raised as a fundamentalist and was taught evolution was wrong and just trust the bible. I am now an atheist and I would credit critical thinking as the main reason since those beliefs did not hold up to the scrutiny I apply to my work. I think critical thinking, above all else, needs to be taught to all kids, because if we teach them how to think, the possibilities are endless
If God turned a person into a rainbow, why are there still people..? :p
You are officially awesome for getting William Knight to do voice work for you.
@TheThinkingAtheist INCREDIBLE PODCAST! I LOVE YOUR MATERIAL! I LOVE THIS PODCAST! I like what you said towards the end about how you were raised in a religious family, like me, Baptist, which was just CRAZY, and it was "Get 'em while their young!" That's exactly how it was for me too! I was a Christian, but now atheist. It made even less sense as I got older and smarter. My grandparents are EXTREMELY religious! My grandfather told me last X-mas: "The Earth is 6000 years old." ULTIMATE FACEPALM!
Excellent podcast good sir! Man you really put the reality out there on the religious dinner table to get served harder than elbow shots at a basketball game!
I can still remember being a kid and having a greater emotional intelligence and reasoning capacity than the adults around me. My sister would constantly say "what do you know? You're just a little kid." And, I would inevitably be right.
But, I know exactly what you are talking about when talking to believers. And...they will continue to talk to you in that same tone even as you get older. They talk to you as if you are "just going through a phase."
Nice response to the teacher who says respect everything in all circumstances. It's like saying there are no wrong answers on school tests. You have to earn respect.
Thats not what she meant she meant respect people right to free thought as long as it doesnt become action. If WB started executing gays she obviously would call for the group to be imprisoned to put down militarily. She meant you have to respect right to think absurd things. What do you have asbergers? Cant read people?
Amazing final monologue.....Thank you.
@TheThinkingAtheist I agree with you I bet you get many many calls so to keep the show flowing and not go on forever because instead on an hour you would be on all day just talking to people some need more time and others don't, I love your show.
Being a trained Christian apologist & in divinity studies & theology (but now a staunch Atheist & anti-christ 6.9 on the Dawkins Scale & a hard 7.0 on the same scale in concern the Abrahamic faiths) this just tickled my pickle & gave me the giggles (like reading much of the Bible, in any form, does now).
But ... now training in Atheist Epistemology & trained in Secular Philosophy (having a DPhil) I'm glad for my Christian training because it makes me a well armed & formidable aponent.
question the big provider in the sky. I love this podcast. To know that there are many more like me out there is comforting. My loss is still an unfortuneate fact in my life, but I am grateful for the deliverance, the freedom I and my wife now experience. Argue as some will, the fact is simple and easy to udnerstand: there simply is no eveidence, not even in the minutest form, of the possibility that a great spirit who lives in the sky made us and even gives a damn what happens.
HOORAY! A religious degree online ad! Just what I've been waiting for lol.
All religious doctrines should come with a warning lable that says WARNING DO NOT TAKE LITERALLY, MAY BE HAZARDOUS TO REASONING AND LOGIC.
At about 48:00 in, I was reminded of something one an elementary school teacher once told our class... gosh, I must have been about 8 or 9. She told us, "Respect should be something that is honestly earned." I'm 41 now & I still remember that.
This is one of the best podcast. Keep them coming man. I love these.
@TheThinkingAtheist I do agree that in this episode you were rushing and talking over some of the callers. You still did a good job and kept the flow of the program as well though.
Beliefs have consequences.
Yes they do.
I'm happy to hear that the Atheist population is growing, that's mean's people are getting smarter, now that's a good thing.
Serino Modica or just less gullible
Arvidius ツ LeVay Satanism is a religion & its growing faster then any other religion that's because it is non-spiritual, it does not involve worship of a deity, Satan and Baphomet are only used as symbol's, its a Atheistic philosophy which mean's they are all Atheist's.
+Serino Modica Atheism doesn't want you, satanism is a loser's club. Atheists tend to be smarter, that's true, but it doesn't apply to you as your poor grasp of grammar reveals. Whether you worship a deity or not, LeVey satanism is still a religion, it's a cult and it's just as silly as any other religion. You're the second person I've encountered trying to associate atheism with satanism, and that other person turned out to be a fundamentalist Christian. So I'll ask you the same question that I asked him: Do you believe in god? Say you don't believe in Jesus. Don't say "satanists don't believe in Jesus", I'm asking _you_, do _you_ believe in Jesus?
Eve Again Hey I'm not here to defend satanism. It is annoying when Christians compare atheists to them. But one can have poor grammar and still be smart. I have atrocious grammar and I'm still pretty smart, even if I say so myself. LOL
I must legally respect a person's right to believe something, but i don't have to respect their beliefs--especially if they're crappy.
When I WAS a Christian many year's ago I always prayed to a so-called God to watch over my 4 kid's and protect them. Well if God was real 2 of my kid's wouldn't be DEAD!!! They were both only 38 year's old when they passed away.
@TheThinkingAtheist You're doing a great job. I especially like the ending. Keep it up!
The Ark is clearly bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. So does that make Noah the Doctor?
Seth you should interview your parents. That will be your best show ever.
In reference to your message for the apologists at the end of the broadcast...pardon the expression, but .... PREACH IT!!!!
lol
Those who say "You weren't there, so you don't know." I say right back "You weren't there so YOU definitely don't know!"
First off, you have a great name.
As for the rest, that is very frustrating. I was actually thinking about this on my way home from work last night; about how often people talk to someone young as if they are stupid simply because they believe they are not knowledgeable. It is a good rule of communication, to never overestimate someone's knowledge, but never underestimate their intelligence.
When you choose your beliefs based on what is tangible and credible rather than what your parents or your preacher (Or your book) tells you to believe, there is a true freedom in life. Ever since I became an atheist (and a materialist for that matter) I have been more inquisitive and intrigued about everything. That being said, religion is a part of human nature which has been ingrained in all cultures since we first came into being - you can live a happy life with your own beliefs too.
An apologist and I were involved in a discussion of the ages of things. He wanted me to see why creation is about 6K years as we know them. I asked if god was a bit older, say a million years old? Who created god, since all complex things need a creator? He said that god is a special case, didn't have a creator as he is eternal. Eternal? I asked if that means that he waited an eternity to create our universe and the species of ape that he wanted to engage in a special relationship. Doesn't seem like he was in a rush to get to know us. God waited for ETERNITY to get around to us. Apologist's eyes crossed.
I had a wonderful encounter with an apologist in Seattle. I asked and confirmed his name, and proceeded to ask how he slept at night in front of his wife and son. Something for them to remember. Yep, I'm a bit of an asshole, but I relished in reminding him that not everyone buys his bullshit.
A desperate bunch of goofs desperately trying to force a desperately vapid belief system into a desperately small corner of reality. And losing. At every turn. On every front.
First, your created a false assumption that God came from somewhere. That's like asking "What does blue smell like?" Blue is not in the category of things that have a smell, so the question is flawed, just like the question you asked. God is not in the category of things that are created or caused--He simply exists. Second, we know that from nothing, nothing comes. Thus, if there were ever a time when there was absolutely nothing in existence, then nothing would have ever come into existence. But things do exist. Therefore, since there could never have been absolutely nothing, something had to have always been in existence. The ever-existing thing is what we call God. God is the uncaused being that caused everything else to come into existence. God is the uncreated creator who created the universe and everything in it.
Anton Thery You are making a completely unsupported assertion. There is no evidence that gawd exists and so there is no "nature" of gawd or any discernible characteristics. You define gawd into existence and that is a supremely flawed starting point.
When you say "there is no evidence that gawd exists" and therefore conclude I have made an unsupported assertion, you have forgotten the very elementary nature of logic. You have no evidence that God does not exist. Therefore, you rebuttal is unsupported.
I think the T Rex ate whatever he wanted. 😂
Richard Dawkins' book 'The Selfish Gene' that I picked up in Grade School was a real game changer for me. I can't believe my Parents let me read it .... and I actually hid it from them .... it was treated as taboo as pornography & was a bit of contraband & thus made it exciting to read for me. Lol. Thank you Mr. Dawkins
My story is identical to the host. I am still journeying out of the religion, however, like the host of this program, apologists were ultimately responsible for the blinds finally leaving the eyes of my intellect. I studied after the top in the Christian religion industry; William Lane Craig, Phillip Johnson, Michael Behe, Hank Hannagraffe, R.C. Sproll, et al. The last 12 years of my Christian life was dedicated to not less than 5-7 hours of intense study of the bible, 10-12 hours on Sat./Sun.
I forgot who said this, but I think it is a fitting quote for this podcast:
"No one ever disbelieved in God more than when philosophers tried to prove him."
Feelings are often irrational, they can look like an enemy of logic and reason. However, logic by itself cannot solve the problems and inconsistencies of the world. Experience is what brings the two together, and makes it possible for us to decide what's true/real. And that's why religion cannot ever beat scepticism, because it already denied logic in favor of feelings, while openly discourages us from experiencing things by ourselves.
Wow this is so funny. I remember a long time ago when I used to go to church, a priest analyzed that exact passage in the introduction. He said the eye of the needle was some escape hole in the walls of a city used a night when the doors were closed or something like that.
Entertaining as always. When listening to this I´m glad that I live in a country that has a population with statisticly 60% Atheistst.
Saying that the Swedish church (protestant) are BIG apologists, they change the Bible constantly to be as "modern" as possible i.e they decided that hell didn´t exist and now has a female homosexual Archbishop. I find this very amuzing.
I love your shows, keep it up!!
Brilliant episode, the prologue left me literally speechless
To the “teacher” at the 35 minute mark. You couldn’t be more wrong. Beliefs inform your actions.
Well...😃 She believes that her beliefs do not necessarily inform her actions. She is acting on that belief by not acting on her unmentioned but potentially odious other beliefs.
The intro was funny. :)
Heres a couple more problems with the ark. If the water covered Mt Everest, ....FREEZE! Im doubting all our atmospheric levels would adjust in just 20 or so days of rain, then readjust afterwards. The cold would be catastrophic. Also, adding 3 miles of mass to this planet would increase its gravity. For most animals, this would crush them under their own weight. And last, where does the water go? Evaporate in 20 days? That is sure to cause a green house effect.
Strange when you think about it that everything ate plants before the fall of man and yet the only animals that became carnivores after the fall were the ones that once ate coconuts.
Perhaps they were sick of coconuts?
welcome to the tap dance! the dogs might not have been the best example because of the way that the species has been adapted from the initial wolf for various human needs over time. but at the same time, there are pics from many ancient peoples showing dogs, and there is even footprints of the dog following people into caves where petroglyphs are found(i think they were in france)
From what I understand the whole Eye of the needle, is referencing to the "Needle" gate in the city that was much smaller and used at night. It was possible to get a camel (non-human animal ) onto it's knees and squeeze one through.
Pressure moves. In order to change, we need to move it from where it’s from to a place where it will be right for everyone. Opposing views creates opposing force. We can’t reform anything when we stay passive because we’re so concern about respect even those ideas that don’t deserve it. We need to discuss and debate ideas we disagree so we can understand each other and perhaps reach a consensus where it can be acceptable to everyone.
Awesome show. My story is very much like yours so i totally related to everything. I can imagine the consequences you faced because I faced them too. The lack of evidence, the fact that *these* people here are the ones God chose to talk through? Hell yeah, now everything makes sense.
So is this thinking atheist guy a machine? Or is he just insanely amazing at speaking so eloquently? I really can't tell..... He's just so good.
🤣 - Great intro - mental gymnastic at its finest 👍
There was an apologist named Dr. Fazale Rana who came to our college to talk about why synthetic biology disproves evolution and proves creationism.
Needless to say, he didn't convince me or my skeptic friend, but I did take a lot of good notes, pics and recordings.
There is a difference between ridiculing the ideas and the person holding the idea. But when a person claimed to be defined by a bad idea then the line is blurred...
The Noah's Ark story is the very easiest to explain with apologetics.
First, when it talks about "all the animals" it is really primarily refering to the animals familiar to those who lived in the region-- or specifically Noah's farm animals.
When it talks about the "world" being flooded, it was just what constituted the world to Noah which could have just been the valley he lived in.
The story then works pretty well.
expert: and unknown quantity (X) under intense pressure (spurt)
:)
once again, thank you.i hear your story, and the story of some others and i hear my story.i sometimes feel very stupid when i think of how long it took me to see the questions i had were valid and not a 'lack of faith'.
however, no one in the atheist community has made me feel stupid.reason and logic demand that if we accept a false idea, we change. there is no shame in admitting we are wrong, and change is a great thing...
On the topic of the lady calling in, saying that ridicule will not change someone's mind, I have to respectfully disagree.
The only reason I became a Skeptic, Atheist and Humanist, was precisely because someone laughed in my face when I made a couple comments on the things I believed. Even though that did hurt me and I got angry, it did make me step back, and re-evaluate what it is that I actually believe, and why I believe it.
Someone else's ridicule, helped to set me free.
The eye is fun. If you wanna do the blind spot thing, get a bit of paper and draw a + and a O on it about two inches apart. Cover your left eye and look at the left symbol. Move the paper slowly closer. You should see the other symbol vanish at a certain distance. That's the blind spot. The brain covers the spot with what it expects to be there based on the surroundings, so in this instance the brain covers the symbol with the white of the paper.
The inverted image one is even more fun. I don't have a source for it, but I heard of an experiment that involved people wearing goggles that inverted the image they saw. So de-inverted what the brain does. Everything upside down. After a few days of bumping into things and dropping test tubes and whatnot while wearing these things, they wake up one morning while still wearing the goggles and discover the world is the right way up. Take the goggles off and it's all upside down. The brain 'corrected' what it was processing. Forcing them to re-correct back to normal. This MIGHT be just an amusing tale, as I've not seen anything confirming it and I heard it many years ago, but if you consider how adaptive and flexible the brain is it's a fairly believable tale, no? If anyone has a source for this, I'd love to be able to cite it. So please pop a reply in if you find it.
"Putting the semen back in seminary." Hahahahaha! Brilliant!! :D
To Flo: There are some wonderful deconversion stories on youtube which can help you understand how intelligent people can be religious and then come to atheism. Evid3nc3's "Why I am no longer a Christian" and LovingDoubt's "Journey to Atheism" are probably my favorites.
Thanks for the welcome. I'll hopefully learn to tap dance soon.
“Why did He not have His flood first and kill the devil before making man and woman?”
That’s a really good point. I hadn’t considered that before. I mean, if having humanity allegedly “wicked” is grounds to drown all the other animals, why is this not adequate grounds to drown the devil?”
Great late night listening, great to nod off to. British radio is shit. I live in a country where the vast majority are innately atheist and even the Christians I know don't believe in hellfire and damnation. I really feel for someone who is told that when a kid.
Please will you make a film of the first 7.20 minutes??? It's brilliant!!!
I second this Seth. I imagine it would be pretty popular.
Children who finally realize how silly it was that they believed Santa was real and their parents were enjoying lying to them are most likely to eventually take a closer look at religions as a similar ploy to sell you something you do not need. Any superstition is poison to rational use of the human mind. Many people can and will use your superstition against you and assume you already believe in god. What god? Which one? The one with no last name?
Man, the way you exercise your ideas and intelligence is motivating me to do my homework XD I
Hmmm... Loved the Entire thing. It's just recently that I've found any such great source for atheistic rethorics, as The Thinking Atheist. Love what you are doing, love watching the material you put out!
Oh, and just a quick sidenote: it's a common misconception that there are polarbears in Norway. Not sure if there was some sarcasm there I didn't quite catch, but just in case: There are indeed none. Perhaps in some polar zoo somewhere, but that's about it ;P
Norwegian thinking atheist out.
@ScholarVisual LOL, Yes we are. If anything I've enjoyed our debate. I tried to keep it civil and appreciate you keeping that way as well.
I get the one about believers having a magical understanding a lot. I tell them they have it backwards. Proof doesn't follow belief. Belief follows proof.
Ok we are officially going in circles. A screw is one whole piece of metal, that is molded into different sections. Its not a collection of parts that came together, it is one peice that has been shaped, into having a head, shank, etc. Its not a conglomerate of pieces that came together forming a system. Its just one whole peice of metal.
When I asked one believer 'nobody else had a boat and noticed it raining and flooding and thought to get on the boat with a fishing pole and some water?" he said 'nobody had boats, they lived on Pangea'
Ok, just have yourself some fun with that one.
I love the intro on this one.
Mockery is an important tool in education. You must first use group pressure to break the back of a delusion. Only then can you teach the truth. People under the influence of group pressure can believe anything on bad reasoning. They are immune to the truth or reason. But mock them sufficiently, and by enough contemporaries, and they slowly lose their insane certainty and become teachable again.
All apologists have vested interest .$$$$$$ they don't want to lose their jobs
When a theist is able to comunicate non agressive and is able to not tell me that I gonna burn in hell because I'm a atheist - so I will respect him.
That was awesome. Well done Seth.
Absolutely fascinating podcast! I think you give that woman with the Jersey accent WAY too much credit, though; she insulted your intelligence from start to finish, and frankly I'm shocked that she's allowed to teach.
Listening to it again, I think she was lying to you. I think she was trying to trap you into making some statement in favor of bigotry, but you didn't take her bait.
Long time listener, but only on RUclips. This is the first time I wished I had listened to the show live so I could call in. The caller who said we need to respect others opinions. PURE BULLSHIT! As stated by other posters, we don't need to respect other opinions when you know and can prove they're wrong. Especially when they make a point to be unreasonable. O'Reilly is the perfect example. He doesn't debate, he doesn't ask questions, he just attacks. And I'm suppose to respect that? Hell no!
One apologetics maneuver that drives me nuts is the attack on evolution that stems from a complete misunderstanding of the theory. My favorite is, "The Cambrian Explosion baffles evolutionists and proves God created all the phyla at once," argument that fails to acknowledge the millions of years in which the 'explosion' took place and the absolute absence of modern-day animal and plant forms during the Cambrian period.
Any "failing" in "perfect creation" is almost always explained about by Christian apologists as being due to the intrusion of sin into the world after the fall. Sin is their get out of jail free card.
The intro is just badass!
I've changed my mind due to both kind correction AND ridicule. Both work under different circumstances.