Building a Wall with Oak Sleepers | TRC Garden
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- Опубликовано: 5 май 2016
- Here is a look at how I built our oak sleeper retaining wall for the patio. More info below.
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The wall is built on sloped ground but we wanted to ensure we had a nice level top that would serve as a place to sit and also border the paving stone.
We will have freely draining gravel behind the sleepers however you may want to use some drainage pipe or channel drain to make sure there is no build up of water behind, especially on larger walls.
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Been watching your videos for quite some time now. You remind me so much of myself in your interests, ambitions and attention to detail. I enjoy every video you make, from butchering a pig to building an oak frame (which I intend to start soon for a workshop at our new house). The one difference I notice more than anything is how much you get done in so little time. You clearly work in nearly every spare minute you have; it's inspiring but I don't think I'll ever get as much done as you seem to! All the best, Steve
Helluva job Brother🇺🇸
Fine craftsmanship indeed.
Dip screws into a pot of grease before screwing into timber, they go in a lot easier and less shearing. Great video.
Great idea that Trevor
Lovely job again. Bit after the fact but a good tip driving screws in oak is to use some lanolin on screw the ads or if you can down in the hole. It will lubricate the screw and stop shearing. Used a lot in traditional boat building as a lubricant.
Nice job ! I picked up some good tips to use when I build my new semi raised Koi pond so Thank You for sharing ! 👍🇬🇧
Very well explained throuhout the video. U didnt rush. Fantastic job.
What size oak sleepers are you using please?
This is exactly what I’m looking to start soon, with absolutely zero DIY skills/experience so this will come in handy 👍🏼
@Francisco Ingalls Yea I don't give a shit really.
Great video and very helpful as I will be doing this next week
Kyle Hornett how did it go?
Very well done!
Nicely done..... enjoyed watching that....
I have watched this through twice.. and your oak vs softwood video... I hadn't considered knocking the rough corners off.. such a good idea, thanks :o) Just gotta figure router or plane.. will try plane first. Great video, you really have done a chunk of research, coveres absolutely everything!! . I'm going with softwood, already more than I can afford hehe.
Great work. Thanks for sharing.
+Matthew Friedrichs Thanks!
Just moved into a Townhouse with a sloped backyard about 3ft towards a fence that backs onto a mall parking lot with caged stone rock under the 3 ft yard So its about 2 to 3ft high from the parking lot ground
I was able to get some free Railroad ties 8inch x 8 inch x 10ft and a old parking lot that has stone as filler ..the Video helped I know i have to tie in the box firm I will be adding another level ontop of the ties making it 16 inches high and fill in the box and front of the box level with the rest of the backyard cheers
I think me and my partner are about 5 years behind you in our lives, when you were doing your camper van, I watched that series. Now we've bought our own home and are looking at renovating our garden, I've stumbled upon your channel again building oak sleeper walls. Beautiful synergy haha
That’s the early videos, prepare to sell up all you have and buy a farm in a few years then. 😂👍
@@TheRestorationCouple Thanks for the early warning and the excellent videos over the years!
I’ve done two gardens now one using 56 original railway sleepers and the other (house I’m in now) with 74 original railway sleepers and in each case required no concrete, hardcore, carriage screws.
Lay base sleepers, then lay second layer and use 3’ to 4’ reed bar to pin both layers together and in place to the ground. Third layer I use 6” nails to fix in place.
Perfect results, have never moved, included steps and angles all cut by hand.
I like what you have done but sometimes folks over complicate jobs 👍
It was just to show the different options really, we did as you have but used oak dowel to join everything, (in the next video).
Great video, Thank you. I am using green oak as a garden boarder but only 2 sleepers high. If I use screws they will be on the top layer. How is best to hide these?
Thanks
Great vid
When you use screws to fix the sleepers down try using a small dab of the finishing oil as a lubricant and that will stop the screws snapping
great videos!
Very helpful. Thanks
Great intro into sleepers, thank you.
Hi. Love this video and looking to do the same in my garden this weekend. I building a wall to and behind it will be soil and artificial grass. Its about 700mm high. Should I put posts in aswell and secure to those?
Great videos, starting my Oak sleeper patio edging wall soon. Couple of daft questions:
1. Is there a particular type of plane you are using to knock off raised edges? Hand plane, smoothing plane, block plane - too much choice at DIY store!
2. If using M10 hex screws (as you showed), is a 5 or 6mm pilot hole OK to help prevent screw from sheering?
Many thanks, Andy
Nice job so far! Looks really neat, you're making quick progress with your garden!
+Henrys Workshop It's getting there. Playing catch up on videos actually as there has been lots going on. :-)
great video, Wille building a sleeper retaining wall in the next couple of weeks. Just wondered what the ratios were on your concrete mix? would I be able to bed them in that to level in the concrete?
Thankyou for this - a really good and helpful video. I intend to copy method fairly closely. Question: How deep are the concrete pads under the bottom sleepers and is the coachbolt screwed into the wet concrete?
Thanks.
I was thinking of using these for the sides of a pond, what do you think?
How many would I need when placing them on top of each other to make it 4 feet high? In orher wirds, how thick are they? Obviously I will factor the length of the pond into it myself.
Thanks
Hi Tim, love the channel! Quick question - I’m planning an oak sleeper wall and wanted to check when screwing the wood together do you pre-drill both sleepers or just the top one? Thanks! Russell
I watched this video and was blown away by your attention to detail and prevision using the wood. I followed your steps in order to build a sleeper wall in front of somer retaining gabions. Thanks. Only question would be where did you get the Oak Dowel...? ha. Cheers
Hi I had trouble finding the oak dowels too but he mentions what size he used and I found oak broom handles pack of 3 on ebay that will do the same job. Hope that helps.
you should add slope to the main search description. It was just what I was looking for as I have a sloped garden but found it by chance.
Great video where is the video about the finishing of the sleepers
Thanks for the video, very helpful... Inspired by this video and I decided to do a retaining wall on my own as my garden is having a foot drop, so may be two sleeper height. I have a question please... What do i fill the back of the sleeper, should i be planning any drainage, even if my wall is not going to be a tall one ( only a 2 sleepers laying flat ). Thanks
I'm no expert but agg pipe with a thickness depending on how much water you can expect to fill behind the wall during the wet months. Wet soil puts a bigger strain on walls and removing the water with a pipe will help keep the wall drier and holding less load. You can fill it with a gravel like blue metal also helps drainage and is cheap and easy to source. Saying all this a foot is not a wall that will suffer too much from water weight. Either way, putting in an agg pipe is good practice and costs bugger all, so why not?
Very useful Thanks and a really good video like how you said it took 6 hours my mrs watches these videos thinks it will only take me 10mins to lay all the sleepers haha
Hi Tim, how deep were the holes for the coach bolts?
Hi - can anyone add some clarity around 3.45 where the sleeper is leveled, anchored and flush against the shutterboard which is dividing the subbase to 4.20 where the same sleeper now appears to be butted up against the subbase? Presumably the shutterboards where remove, more type 1 added and then compacted down in between?
If i build this surround a grass area instead of patio, will it affect the drainage of the lawn?
@The Restoration Couple. What dimension is the wood?
Great vid. What drill did you use for the pilot holes and drilling bolts into place? Does it have to be corded? Sds? What kind of drill bit did you have? First project of mine and dont want it to go wrong!.
Thanks.
Fantastic video as always. Ordered our sleepers for a bank holiday project in the garden to build a retaining wall with steps up from the patio. What length stainless steel screws and coaches did you use?
150mm screws and 100mm coach I think. To be honest most of the work is being done by the dowels here so screws just temporary really. If you can find stainless landscaping screws/timberlok online they are good, especially if not using dowels. Hope that helps. Tim
Great video, thanks. What is your thoughts using the sleepers on their edge? Would you be comfortable with 2 on top of each other to give a height of 400 rather than using 4. Thanks!
Depends if back filling or if it's a straight run or not. If it is a U shape then it may be stong enough, otherwise just put a couple of posts in behind and fix to those.
Great video and looks great, question for you did I hear you say that the soil will rot the sleepers and should avoid contact with them? not sure if in this vid or another, if so whats the best solution to avoid this? could you use DPM on the outer walls or would this not help with drainage? sorry building a similar patio and a complete novice, thanks in advance.
I did a large oak raised bed series last summer which showed how I did it. Basically you want a layer of gravel behind first, then some landscaping fabric to keep soil out of gravel. 👍
Great work.
What saw do you use for cutting sleepers? I can never get it perfect using my circular saw.
Do you need to have sleepers lined to stop them rotting? If so what type of lining would you suggest please? Great vid btw xx
Hi, 5 years on how are the sleepers doing? Are they showing signs of rot? I'm hoping to do something similar but keep swaying between UC4 softwood and Oak!
Great job!
Although you should never look down the line of the chainsaw bar in case of kickback.
Always have saw laterally to your body and never looking over as said.
These vids are great.
What tool are you using around the 6:38 6:42 minute mark... looks like spirit level of sorts?
Many thanks!
froggerabc just a small level. Torpedo level I think.
Hi Tim, how high could you go with this method? Would several coach screws/pieces of rebar concreted in along the base layer be suffice for a 600mm retaining wall (L shape)
Planing the ends for a neater fit is ok. But it do anything in regards to shrinking as wood doesnt shrink
In its length, only its width.
hi The Restoration couple. What make wood drill bit are you using to drill your pilot holes.
I used some random ones from ebay in my green oak sleepers and it broke both my 5mm and 7mm, both at 30cm long. I need it at 30cm long as I am stacking them 200mm high, unlike what you are doing.
I'm wanting to build an oak sleeper retaining wall. Probably 2-3 sleepers high for our front garden.
Do you not need to use posts behind your sleepers and bolt through the posts into the sleeper? Or is it just first layer of sleepers onto a bed of hard core/cement then screw in each layer down into the sleeper beneath? Please can you advise? Does it make sense what I'm trying to ask lol ?
What did you use for the base under the sleepers please? Just standard sub base? Thanks
hey again, i got around to building my sleeper wall with some steps. i used tantalised sleepers but i forgot to treat the cuts, how bad have i messed up? should i unscrew everything and treat them? or will just treating the outside of the structure be ok?
silly wabbit obviously treating cut ends is best done at assembly however if you can see the joins still then it is possible to flood the join with a clear sealer. I have done it on some fence post mortises before and seems to have worked. If not to hard to unscrew it might put your mind to rest though.
What stainless steel fixings are you using? I need 150mm or 200mm ones to go through two sleepers. But the only options that come up when I look online are for hex-head. But if I use these it won't be possible to make the sleeper above lie flat... Thanks.
Great video and helpful as am starting a similar project. Can you tell me at what point did the coach screws get screwed down on the first sleepers, in relation to the concrete/mortar being wet/set?
do you know the answer to this yet @louise?
@@mikoazura2228 I can't remember. but the project is complete :-) :-)
Do you use a special string with low stretch/sag?
cool.. do people ever use the high end to build up rather then lay them flat like you did.. i.e. less sleepers to get the height on the wall.
For a retaining wall, that reduces the friction between courses, and weakens it, as that’s really what helps give the wall strength. The oak rods and screws do less than the actual surface area of the wall that is touching between the sleepers. You’d be better to have the larger edges touching for a stronger wall.
Hi there :) In terms of drainage, should you have a 'French drain' behind the sleepers so that the rainwater doesn't rot the sleepers? I am confused!
Another great video. I take it they aren't planed sleepers you used?
Check the next videos. 😉 We planed them all after.
Hi, would you use a geotec fabric under the gravel foundation? I am about to follow your method, but it has been wet for 4 months and just wondering if this is a good idea?
Why no posts to strengthen the wall? When would you consider a post?
Thanks for the video,this has helped me confirm that I will defiantly be paying someone to do this for me. I don’t have half of these tools especially a chainsaw or a wheelbarrow. By the time I’ve purchased all the tools and taken time off work to do this I could’ve just paid someone else lol! Do envy the DIY folks out there though that aren’t afraid to give it a go! Just not for me
What mix is the concrete please to set the bottom sleeper? Thanks
Really good video I am going to be using it for reference when building mine... I just have a couple of questions hope you can help. I am not diy savie but I want to have a go And willing to learn.
What is it you used for your sub layer?
I have heard that I should be using pea gravel to help move the water? Is this to be used when back filling?
Any other advice a d tips would be handy :)
Thanks
Great videos, have learned lots. Building a raised (treated pine) sleeper platform with connected stepped beds. Was recommended to put DPC inside the beds where the damp soil will be. Also thought I might use a layer under the sleepers to protect from dampness rising through hardcore. Do you think this will help to lengthen their lifttime or only allow water to gather underneath?
Geotextile and gravel to keep freely draining my preference
@@TheRestorationCouplemakes sense and have the geotextile as well so will go with that. Thanks for quick reply.
Using this method, how high would you say you could go with a retaining wall?
hi restoration couple, i'm installing a flower bed with new oak sleepers (200mm x 100mm x 2.4m) but am doing some upright as just like your oak garden wall 3.0 video, and some laying with the longest, thinnest side down 3 high (600mm) so laying on the 2.4 x 100 side. My question is do i lay both of these ways on gravel or do i put them on a concrete base of around 50mm with the coach bolt/screws like you have in this video, with the haunching in both scenarios. Also is it a good idea to drill through the 100mm face of the sleeper into the one below with the 25mm drill bit to install the oak dowels baring in mind its the thinnest part? Look forward to your reply. Thanks.
A little confused, sorry. The oak dowel idea was just me trying something different, there are easier ways to do it and can always plug with a dowl for appearence. The concrete and bolt idea is helpfull on lower or single height walls to stope them shifting however if you are going three high on their edges, fixing to concreted vertical posts is probably best.
Ok thanks for your advice 👌🏼
3:50 how deep were the holes you dug to anchor the bolts in concrete?
How are these holding up? Want to do something similar, but my sister used untreated oak sleepers to build her raised beds and they have rotted badly, mainly from the top down where rain water sat on them. Maybe a sacrificial capping board?
I done several this way with no problems. Would guess they were red oak or very poor quality. Drainage is important but even with ground contact they should be fine for many years.
Your sleeper projects look fantastic and I love the way you joined the sleepers with oak dowels. Please may I ask a quick question regarding anchoring to the sleepers to the ground. I am only going to have only one course of sleepers, as a lawn edge and will be laid flat down like you did. My sleepers are only 1.8 metres long, so how many bolts would you use to anchor to the ground? and how long should the bolts be? Thanks
No need to anchor much at all. We have single sleepers as lawn edging with nothing. Alternatively you can just drive a steel peg or oak dowel down through in to ground if you don’t want concrete.
@@TheRestorationCouple Thank you
What size coach screws did you use?
Great job. I’m attempting to do the same in my garden. Where did you get your screws from and what length are they? Hopefully it’ll come out as good as yours 🤞
Little while back now but I think screwfix. If using oak just make sure they are stainless steel. 👍
Looking for other parts to this video? Was there any? Thanks
Love the vid. Can I ask though, will the wood rot ?
Not anytime soon. With no solid contact and the fact it’s oak, it should last decades.
Hi, please can you help. I want to make a sleeper wall and wanted to be clear on what to lay the sleepers on. Do they just lay straight onto soil?
Bottom one is on a compacted gravel sub base. Check this weeks video for an overview.
Would this type of wall be suitable and safe for levelling a back garden as opposed to a brick wall?
It would be a lot more expensive than brick, and not last as long
Great job! where did you purchase those stainless steel screws?
Screwfix I think but quite a few suppliers stock them.
What do you use to protect your sleepers ?
What size sleepers did you use? I know they are 2400mm long but what are the other dimensions?
200x100
Which type of Oak sleeper are they, Green fresh cut or Aged and dried?
Green, well a few months cut I imagine. Aged oak would be a different story all together as much much harder to cut, drill, plane, etc.
What’s the reason for the stainless steel pallets?
I've heard that oak sleepers can tend to warp and belly. Have you noticed anything like this since you did the job? Great vids btw!
Nothing at all. I guess every cut of wood will dry and move differently however these have had a year in all weathers and are the same as the day that they went in. I am actually surprised at the little amount of shrinking there has been. Perhaps if just used as raised beds one high they might move more, that said I have several that are 4 year old sat in a pile and they look pretty straight.
The Restoration Couple super stuff, thanks for the quick reply. We moved into a 1940's house in Dublin and are trying to restore it. So your vids are great for ideas, but I don't watch them with my partner anymore because they make me seem so lazy!
That is pretty reasonable actually. showed this to the missus, she was impressed (it takes a lot - believe me)
I see you used scalpings. Any other material I can use as a base, or should I put on top of soil? I like the idea of attaching coach screws and putting them into concrete pads.
I think best to have gravel or something that drains well in touch with the timbers. Even when backfilling, a layer of gravel and fabric will help stop rot.
The Restoration Couple what about a layer of quick sand, not that it will help with drainage, but will be easier to level?
+2wheelspy I would worry that sand could be eroded away by water or ants. It would help with levelling though. You don't need much sub base and if you are getting concrete aggregates already just use that gravel.
So where is the best place to find these retaining wall oak sleepers?
Where do you buy your stainless steel woodscrews from? I've been looking but can't find any long ones anywhere! They're all carbon stell with zinc plating.
Just screwfix or most hardware websites.
@restorationcouple great video, I am just about to tackle a sleeper wall. What fixings are you using in this video, I can see you using the coach bolts in other videos as per link but these do not look like coach bolts, I guess stainless steel screws but what length?
I was wondering this too
They look like 150mm 👍🏻
@@avdronesolutions8802 I think I read somewhere in this post, that 'The Restoration Couple' said the Stainless Steel Coach Screws came from Screwfix. The Max length of Stainless Steel Coach Screws that they sell is 120mm.
How did you compact your sub base before the sleepers were in?
For this size just the back of a sledgehammer or even an offcut or oak rammed vertically.
Brilliant video! One question.. how/where did you run off the surface water? Wanting to do something similar in my garden and not sure how to run off the water so it doesn’t just run to the sleepers? Complete novice so any advice would be really helpful! Thank an
Hi there, this looks great! How are these holding up? Any signs of rot yet? How long are these expected to last? Love the idea but have read mixed reviews on how well these will last. Thanks!
As solid as they went in. Providing all are white oak I would hope they last a few decades, the key is the drainage and not having soil in contact with them directly.
Cheers for the tips. Looking at buying oak sleepers. Is white oak even better? Cheers.
Charlie yes if you can ensure all European white they will last longer. Sometimes there are other oak species mixed in.
You're building the sky tower?
The only oak sleepers I can find are 2.4m long and the stated weight of them is 48kg, which I consider, even for two people to move is a lot. How would you recommend moving them?
They vary in weight depending on how dry but yes they are quite weighty, 40-50kg sounds right. You can get smaller sleepers but 2.4 are standard. One end on a sack truck works on fairly level ground, otherwise it’s just a bend your knees type job.
Sweet looking build! What type of screws did you use as the ‘locating’ screws in the sleepers?
Just some long stainless 6mm.
Thanks, did some looking (always take longer than you normally think) and like the look of the Timco timber screws @ 150mm
Great video. Very detailed. It's given me the confidence to have a go at doing something similar. Longer walls but only two high. I have a question regarding the coach screws. A few people have asked the size of both the positioning screws and the coach screws and in one post (4 years ago) you say you think they may be 150mm & 100mm respectively. I'm a bit confused as to what use a 100mm coach screw is in a 100mm deep sleeper. Is the objective of the coach screw to bury into the wet cement? If so how far into the cement does it really need to go to provide added support. You've been very clear in stating the oak dowels provide the majority of the support, if you were doing this again on a larger scale would you bother with the cement and coach screws? I don't want to cut corners, but it feels like a lot of extra effort if it's only adding minimal benefit. Thanks.
If you have any corners or steps then that will give it the resilience to tipping, if it’s a straight run then concrete pads or vertical posts are needed. Just still making sure bottom timber is on gravel.
Very detailed video and great job as always... You mentioned earlier in the video that the sleepers are 200 mm x 100 mm. Is it just me who thinks they look much bigger in the video? (ps. I fully trust what you said in the video... Looking at visuals I am not been able to graspe that they are that small :) )
No, all the sleepers I use are 200x100x2400. 👍
@@TheRestorationCouple Thanks
How much did that cost in materials, mate? Looks really smart by the way and good video!
£25 per sleeper if oak.
Nice job I bet they weren't cheap
+jerry o connor Thanks. They worked out aroudn £5 more than treated softwood but think it was worth it, especially when you see them all planed and finished. :-)
Hi mate been loving the videos. have started a sleeper wall and was wondering were you got a drill bit the size you need to fit the Dowell in. thanks
Did you ever find out? I am looking to start this soon and have been wandering the same thing
i didnt see how you attached the top layer ?? did you glue it at all , and do you put anything behind to protect and stop the rain rotting the wood though the mud?
They are screwed in the back but you need to see next video forhow they are all joined with dowels. None of teh oak is touching soil, its sat on a crushed stone base and back filled with gravel.
@@TheRestorationCouple what's the thickness of both layers?
I am really struggling to find the flat head screws (150mm length A2 SS) like yours online. I am getting lots of hex head screws which doesnt have flush finish and will be an issue with straggered sleepers. Would appriciate if you can put link here (if you have one) or name of the supplier. Also for these screws which size drill bit do I need to use to pre drill holes? Thanks
I would use hex head landscaping screws and just drill a shallow hole to hide the head. They are stronger screws than the standard type I used.
@@TheRestorationCouple Excellent! thanks.
Nice - how much did that little lot cost ?
+reedy Thanks. They were around £22 each so probably works out £50 more than softwood but well worth it IMO.
The Restoration Couple no way those oak sleepers cost as little as that!!!!