WHAT VANES ARE THE QUIETEST?
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2022
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It’s crazy how well you can hear that indoors compared to outdoor, it would be interesting to do with the mic at the target so from like a deer’s perspective
How hard would it be to try it with a bare shaft for the control?
I was thinking the same 🐝 should try bare shaft episode 2
I was thinking the same
Should not be much of a problem indoors and a well tuned bow.
I bare shaft tune to 30 yards and they fly totally straight then and I doubt they would change enough course to not hit the backstop at 60 yards.
I have never tested my bare shafts out to 60-70 yards or longer as I only shoot outdoors and when my bare shafts fly very well out to 30 yards, that is plenty enough for me to hunt with when I have vanes on.
Arguably my favorite video that you've posted (and there have been a lot of good videos). You had a good controlled environment, a high-end microphone, some really good test cases--this was done well.
Did all the arrows weigh the same!?
If not then the speed difference will affect both volume and sound quality.
Maybe, or it won’t be noticeable.. lol that’s what’s to love
Thanks for the content!
Would have loved to see the heat vane included in this test.
Would love to see y'all do this with different broad heads. Some two, there, four blades in solid and vented
Also theory on the diameter bit. I'd assume the thinner arrows weigh less, thus are going faster, thus more spin and displaced air making it louder
Heavy arrows are always quieter. Just based on speed. Air speed is a huge factor. Think about it, if you whistle the faster you push air through the louder it gets.
Great video Chris! I think way too many people go down various rabbit holes. I think you hit the nail on the head, shooting your bow well is more worth worrying about!
Great video guys very helpful and I purchased the bee real grip and could instantly tell a difference, went from shooting a softball size group to golf ball size in literally 15 minutes. ❤❤
I think one thing you guys are missing is tone. A fletching can be "quiet" but the tone of that shaft flying through the air makes a big difference.
Love this video! Glad to see I’m shooting the quietest vane. 😎 Had a feeling about that though. Which is why I invested so heavily in them. Love your channel Mr. Bee!
Would love to hear a DCA Super Sabre vain against those as well.
Absolutely! @chris_Bee Ryals has a few of them there you can try out.
Max stealth is also nice to look at,used them for the last 5 years
Cool project we did similar experiment testing drag with straight over 6 degree helical an over 60yds the helical lost 2fps compared to straight so again not enough variance to even notice
In the diameter test gotta think about what diameter was it tuned at. If it was tuned with 5mm the 6 and 4 will leave off bow different possibly causing vanes to do more work making more noise
🥤🥱🍿Looking forward to meeting y’all on the 2022 Ultraview tour!
Thanks for the information. Are you going to do the same thing with broadheads?
I love these videos. I get to completely nerd out! Wish they taught this back in school.
Do the same test with broadheads, solid blades vs vented vs mechanical
I love all this technical stuff with arrow fletchings airweight aerodyameter bow setups and all that but, I would like your opinion on what to use for Long range hunting, three vein or four. Obviously using a broadhead whether it be fixed or mechanical. Thanks
Great video. is there a difference in the noise level before the peak? That peak noise is when the arrow gets to the mic but at that point its too late for the deer. Do they have the same difference in noise in the 10 to 20 yards leading up to the peak? Side note it would be cool to see how quiet a bare shaft is to see how much of that noise is the fletch.
Awesome video, the only nerd point I would add as an engineer is the scale, decibels are logarithmic, where a 3 dB change is a double/or cutting in half in a linear scale, so 100 watts to 200 watts change is only that 3 dB. Might matter depending on the animal and distance.
You have run heat vanes, curious as to why you didn't include them in the test? I have found them to be quieter because, I believe, them being a little stiffer as well as shorter in height than the blazers
Great info
If bigger vane and louder just aim a tad lower
You should have also shot bareshafts different diameters to test noise
The weight of the arrows will affect the noise. Test different weights like from a light TAC arrow to a heavy 600 grain and then a few in the middle.
They will make a difference in bow noise at the shot, not arrow flight noise. This has been proven on decibel meters. One meter at the bow and one at the target. No difference at target, it’s all at the shot and that would be the bow not the arrow. Fletchings will still make the sound down range
Great job man I'm back and forth between the 3" X vane and the max stealth vane both with max helical going to run both and go from there. Keep up the great work man.
Max stealth all day, I just wish they were lighter but oh well still a great vane. Q2i would be next
@@paytenblevins3401 those are the ones that I am leaning towards. Thanks for your input.
What about trying one of those range finding Garmin bow sights?
Those things are dope but like 1 grand
Pretty cool.. always knew feathers were loud..Blazers for Hunting and the 3X Bohning for my 3-D/Target Arrows.. thanx for doing this cool stuff Chris👍
So here is my conclusion. Hunting white tail, go with the vane and configuration that will stabilize your arrow the fastest. With shots mostly 30 yards and in, the deer isn’t going to notice a few decibels difference and will likely jump at the sound of any of those arrows flying at them the same. Out west on longer shots, past 40 yards or more, it might be worth trying to go with a quieter vane as the animal will likely sit there a fraction of a second longer after it hears the bow go off trying to decipher what is going on. The louder the vane, the sooner it will realIze the arrow is coming at them and will start to try and dodge it a fraction of a second sooner.
This is a great video. Definitely shows the differences in arrow setups.
Next time you should try that with a shotgun microphone on the stand. It will eliminate a lot of the room echo in the audio. The duel microphone head picks up a massive amount of room noise.
“I couldn’t hear a VISIBLE difference”…. Hahahaha sorry, just had too….. good test, now do one on clocking.., see how much (if any) the direction you fletch increases/decreases accuracy… then max helical/ offset accuracy comparison at Longer distances vs shorter distance and compare that to straight fletch accuracy
Do you think that a fixed broadhead will add more noise? For example 2-Blade vs 3-Blade vs 4-Blade. Also single bevel vs double bevel?
FYI, I work with highway traffic noise for a living. We consider a 3 dB(A) increase as a "perceptible" (by the human ear) increase.
Max hunter is what I like now. Shot feathers 2000-2006, blazers now the Max. I need to try some new stuff, been a while since I’ve experimented. Great video. I’ll always take accuracy over sound though.
I’ve done a fair bit of testing on this topic as well. I recommend trying it outdoors where the echo won’t distort everything so much. I could send you multiple videos of an audible whistle from blazer vanes and a few others down range that you guys aren’t picking up in there for whatever reason, possibly due to echo induced distortion. I have also found that increasing the helical beyond 1 or 2 degrees can create a whistling effect on certain vanes (Tac vanes and Blazer vanes both for sure).
One other thing I forgot to mention, I do most of my testing with my phone (I know it’s not very scientific) down range next to the deer. I feel like it’s a better perspective since the point is to find out what the deer hears coming at them.
What vanes did you find were most quiet?
I use the bohning air for TAC and you can them whistling all the way to the target lol
My go to veins are bohning heat veins
I wonder how much of the noise that mic is catching is the echo of the bow in that big empty room
DCA custom have the Super Sabre vanes and they are super quiet.
My question would be is the noise your hearing the impact on the target. It sounds like that’s the impact noise not a fletch noise. Love this kind of stuff. Keep it up.
Thanks for doing the test with a quality mic. Some of the others I’ve seen basically put there phone half way to a target. Your equipment gave better results. Have you thought about repeating the test with identical fletching and different broadheads?
This and trying to make the quietest broadhead+fletch combo that'll still hit a bullseye at 40 or whatever range
hi Сhris. Please tell me how to correctly and safely increase the poundage on the PSE Full Throttle bow. Would you be able to show it on video. It would be great if you made a video about this bow! Thanks for the answer!!!
The thicker arrow could be quiter also because its stiffer and does not allow the arrow the flex back and forth through the air as much. A thinner diameter arrow generally flexes more and grabs and ungrabs air more.
Figure you will be doing more testing on this down the road. Also wonder if heavy arrow vs light arrow would have any affect as a heavier may dampen the sound more like the larger diameter may also be doing. I also agree with others too, in that a bare shaft may be a better baseline. I know a 2 or 3 decibel difference may not seem like a lot to us but in the deer woods but it could be difference between a ducked shot . Also wonder if you could get with an audio studio that has more sound proofing in studio. Could even break down the whole shot and look at releases, stabilizer effects, etc. for future videos.
Arrow weight will absolutely make a difference on bow noise. Not sure it would be detectable in regard to vane noise other than a speed difference.
Loved the video and testing! As a suggestion for another video, a controlled test with different helical and offsets. There is a lot of info out there and no real side by side tests
Cool video, Chris. I think it would have been cool if you added a speed test in the mix to see how much vane style, shape, and size affect velocity.
Do you have a wave form which is easier to overlay and compare while assigning different colors? Also is there a bareshaft control you could do? Thanks again for great content.
Hey Chris! Thanks for the video! Trying to sight in my bow for this season!
Many many years ago I had my wife get behind a tree While I sent some arrows Bye her. I was testing some firenock aerovane fetching. Yes they were a little quieter. I just happened to have a staggered 4 fletch aae pm 23. WOW home run. Like you discovered small and stiff help but staggering is a game changer. Staggering is easy with a Bitzenburger just put 4 marks on the jig 1/2 inch apart for the back of the fletch go forward each time. Supposedly other advantages that's why it was in my quiver decades ago. Haven't hunted without it since.
That would be a interesting test, add with it, the distance from the nock.
Front of knock groove To back of rear Fletch Is 7/8 of an inch Each letch moves forward by 3/8 of an inch. I have not played with different spacing, I'm sure it matters. I've settled with Bitzenburger right helical 4 fetch aae max stealth. I think it's got something to do with the draft so it probably has less drag (not necessarily good for control).
Chris bee at the Mathews facility right before hunting season hmm what could he possibly be doing there 🤔😉
Set the mic at the target distance, let's review what a deer could hear before impact
Think you should give a better feather comparison. You shot the old school 4"+ parabolic that looks like you chewed on it, and the one looking like a. Uncut/unshaped full feather you would build a flu flu with.
Try comparing similar size/shape feather like the 2" gateway rayzr. I've been shooting them and love em. Similar size and steerage to blazer, but much lighter, so helps the FOC game.
Just think apples to apples comparison in regards to size and shape may give feathers a little better look than what big ol chunkys did
I agree I shoot Rayzr feathers and have for years. Rayzr feathers are 5 grains each while Blazers are 15 each so 15 grains for three Rayzrs or 45 grains for three blazers, that’s a big difference for FOC!
I put the max stealth on my arrows a week ago, first arrow I noticed a difference from the blazers.
In the case of different diameters i reckon that the weight difference of the arrows affect the sound more than the actual diameter.
Can you do similar tests with mylar vanes or spin wings?
Gotta do the no fletch arrow for the control. Please do it would be very interesting to hear how that sounds. Great video!
Very interesting video. I was sorta wondering weather there was a huge difference between the two vanes . I’m using feather vanes with a sixty pound recurve but there not huge by any means and are rounded off. And last weekend I was able to bag a gofer from not too far away I was surprised I got it . Shot it in the neck of all places . Very surprised. Anyway. Cool video. Cheers 🍻
Can we also just bring up that at 9:05 he said "can you HEAR a VISABLE difference?" lol
on a technical level, 3dB is twice as loud (sound energy) but is the first point at where sound is perceptibly louder (human hearing is logarithmic, No idea on deer, or should that just be no ideer). So, anything under 3dB is effectively the same volume (to us). But note you will hear it coming further away. i.e. you will hear a louder arrow slightly earlier.
A great comparison.
I was a bit surprised as you were, about the size of the arrow making a difference.
I would imagine different weights/densities would also change the levels as some would act to amplify the sound, whilst others deaden it.
If I remember correctly a +/- 3db is a double in volume to the human ear. That may depend on weighting scale
Excellent content!! Round 2 will be even better!!!!
Need to test helical vs non helical on large vanes, bare shaft, and do an altogether new test on broadhead volumes. Enjoyed the video. Thanks
You should have opened the files in Adobe Audition. There you get way better graphics to compare with.
Great test and I 100% agree with your conclusion.
Focus much more on your shooting than trying to use a vane that makes little sound.
I have hunted with bows since 1986 and have tried all sorts of things during those years.
I have never experienced that the animals care much about the sound of the arrow.
Even not when using flu flu feathers.
They can react to the sound by stiffen up their body, but never go into escape mode.
The sound of the bow matters extremely much more as it is a totally different sound.
The lower and softer the sound becomes, the better it is.
I do as much as I can to reduce the sounds from the bow.
And I prefer to use heavier arrows to soak up the energy that would be used to create more sound with a lighter arrow.
The sound from the string also gets softer with a heavier and slower arrow.
I close to never experience an animal "jumping the string".
Love him or hate him, but the Ranch Fairy has shown that an unfletched, properly tuned arrow with at least 19 percent FOC, flies like a laser beam to 30 yards. Vanes solidify the stable flight in winds with broadheads. The science reveals that it requires very little vane profile to stabilize a properly tuned arrow. I personally shoot cut down plastic vanes for simply stabilizing the tail of the arrow even while shooting 400 grain single bevel broadheads with an FOC of 31 percent. It is very quiet. I shoot bolt shafts by Sirius with an OD greater than .300. Chris has hit on something here, that larger diameter shafts contribute to quieter arrows, and slower speeds further reduce noises. The faster the arrow, the greater the resistance in flight. All data shows slower, heavier FOC arrows increases efficiency in both flight and all exterior ballistics. Speed might go down, but slugs of momentum goes up at a greater proportional rate. Bow noise is wasted energy being absorbed by the bow. Heavier arrows recovers that wasted energy and converts it into arrow KE and momentum. This means QUIETER in the bow and in arrow flight. It's science!
Shot feathers for years. New feathers are definitely quieter than worn feathers but still louder than vanes. I would have like to seen the Aerovane , the vane that was designed like a owl feather. Could the louder vanes provide more control, just a thought.
Chrisbee! Ok you’ve opened up a can of worms! You should try lower profile anyway because if your shooting an expandable on a well tuned bow and arrow set up you don’t need a high profile. You should give more scenarios and all the companies out there a chance.
Does it matter how close the arrow was to the mic? Noticed the vertical spread was quite large on the target so I assume some arrows were closer than others thus changing the sound level.
you should test old school wood arrows for traditionalists ? test full size feather flu flu's and spiral versions... and maybe retest each vanes with actual broad heads,? will broadhead foc make it less noisy? more arrow weight to absorb vibration in flight and less archers paradox? test the smallest to the largest broadheads for noise differences? mechanicals verses solids? etc...
Can you make the sound waves available?
I want to measure the total energy instead of the instantaneous energy.
I bet at least one subscriber is a sound engineer.
I shoot the Driver vanes and the AAE max Stealth and both are great for 3D but when hunting the TAC driver vanes control a fixed blade better in my opinion. Great comparison on the noise if you would do a part 2 I would love to see the flex fletch silent Knight. Thanks for the content
I’ve shot both, TAC vanes are better than the AAE for sure.
I would say the smaller arrow is louder because the vane wraps farther around the small arrow making a slight more helical/surface area.
I fletched some spiral wrap flu flus for small game recently and man are they loud as hell. They actually sound pretty cool but im really curious to see if it will mess me up come hunting season.
Great video!! 👍5o offset is not extreme. Anything 8o & over is extreme. They will make the rear of the arrow rotate in circles.. Darrel Barnette(Rocket man) says that 4-6o helical is the best range of helical for a hunting arrow. Oh, the XX78 (.001 Guaranteed straightness) you shot with feathers. FWIW - I used 5" parabolic plastic vanes.
Chris great video. What about the height and length of the vane. The larger the vane the more air displacement, so one would assume more noise. What about testing the 3 or 4 different sizes of the AAE hybrid vanes? It also appears the "max stealth" you used are actually the AAE hybrids the max stealth say max stealth on them. its my understanding that the max stealth are quieter than the hybrids. Ive been using the AAE hybrid 26 on the new Easton sonic 6mm with a 1 degree left offset and have been very happy and impressed with them. They shoot great and are quite.
yo chris r u coming out to big sky this year for tac?
You also have to take into account your change in fps the speeds i would think have something to do with how loud it is as well
I run AAE max stealth
3° Left helical
283fps
3 Fletch. Super quiet
Speed definitely plays a role in this. A feather fletched arrow off of my 42 pound recurve is very quiet compared to a feather fletched arrow out of my SR6. What I've found is stiffer vanes, parabolic shape, and with lower profile will almost always be quieter.
Why are 2 inch plastic vanes always compared to 4 or 5 inch high profile feathers? Why is there never a fair comparison of vanes and feathers of the same size and shape?
If the stiffer the vane the quieter it is because of less air flutter, would a crossbow vane be quieter because it would have to be stiffer because of the crossbows must faster speed? I never really thought about it before now, I just want to get your thoughts on this.
Any chance you could do a video about your grip vs the stock Mathews grip or no grip at all? I just bought my first Mathews and I'd like some insight before I make any changes.
The wrist angle is a touch higher on his grip and it's more square and wider than the stock. If you go no grip at all it's narrower and the draw length will be a touch longer. Its very subjective though I suggest you try and find used so if you don't like you can resell and be out very little $. I like a little higher wrist so have the torqueless medium it's contours fit my hand very nicely
I like how bee straightens up at the onerous bee real beats trademark slip…
You need to try the new Super Sabre vane from DCA custom arrows and compare it in a similar test...
Looks like he picked up the 2023 bow
I don't know how much sound the bow is producing on release, but it sounds like there is an echo which returns from the far wall. It sounds like the recording. You should put sound dampening materials all around the bow and shoot through an opening to keep all that sound isolated.
Very insightful,, what are the differences that we hear relative to what the animal hears,, That is what the question should be,, at least I think,,
an animal hears a lot better than what we hear,,
so the variance between quiet and more quiet from our ears Could be leaps and bounds louder in what the animal here,, They definitely have a more acute sense of hearing,,,
FYI that was not a Max Stealth...it was an AAE Hybrid 26. Same size as the Max Stealth but the Hybrid is a different material (softer, slightly less stiff) as the Max Stealth. I am sure the results would be pretty close those and maybe the Max Stealth could be even a litter quieter since it's a tad stiffer?
Really interesting video, well done comparison.
LOVED this test!! Finally a test with a high quality shotgun mic ....+/- 2-3 db's doesn't sound like much but I wonder how magnified those 2 db's are to a deer?
I wonder if it would make a difference of how far you place the vein on the shaft for instantce closer to the narc or further down from nock
Nock not narc lol
Yeah damn phone spelled it that way
they have a 2in feather blazer that was significantly quieter then the 4 or 6in
For comparison, can you do this again but outside? While your test environment is quiet, it's also essentially a literal echo chamber and that might cause a bit of additional noise to be picked.
I haven’t seen video yet with microphone at the target. I’m more curious to the noise heading toward the target. Instead of what it sounds like in the middle of the flight path off to the side.
“I cannot hear a visible difference”… 🤣🤣🤣.
This video popped up at the perfect time. Thanks Chris!!
Larger diameter arrows have more weight and carbon to absorb some vibration noise that you would get in the smaller shafts.
You guys said the last one was aae max stealth but I says on the vane aae hybrid
Any way we can take the quietest fetching and try diff broadheads to see the diff on them?
I've always wondered, does it matter how far back the vanes are? Like closer or farther away from the end of the shaft?
As far back as you can go with no face contact.
the larger arrow most likely weighs more so it's traveling slower
That was my first thought, faster will always be louder