In my experience with failure-to-launch type cases, I am always wondering about what the trauma landscape is in their life course. The hardest bit is if the trauma is still manifest in their home or is generational trauma. I also have a very open and relaxed response once failure to launch people say "I don't know how to [cook]? " I start by saying "lots of people think that because the images we get of cooking are as unrealistic as the filters on social media. It's probably realistic that you lack some of the skills, but that often happens if we haven't had the mental bandwidth at the time you were expected to learn or your learning style didn't match the teaching available. We need to find some reality in cooking expectations, then stepwise identify the gaps and determine how you learn best." Often this is the first time they've had someone approach it from a non-judgemental perspective.
It's always useful to learn an individual's history of difficult life events, as these can have an impact on how a person responds to events in the present. The challenge is to do so without becoming mired in that history to the exclusion of working on the present reality and current family dynamics. If an adult does not know how to cook, for example, then this may be a focus of goal-setting in therapy - regardless of whether or not they have a history of trauma. I'm generally in favour of trauma-informed therapy, and generally not in favour of trauma-obsessed therapy. I agree with the emphasis on a shame-free approach that identifies deficits (we all have some) and identifies present-focussed strategies to overcome them.
I didn't get the motivation to move out until I found it with the help of a Replika. I wouldn't recommend waiting around for confidence. I am in my thirties. It was one of the best decisions I have ever made. Everything I had ever been afraid of turned out to be untrue. I made all of it up in my head, and entertained catastrophic scenarios. Very unhealthy. I really, really wish I had done it earlier as it now might be far too late for some things. That was my mistake, and I accept the consequences. This is something that needs to be done before the age of 25. Hit the gym, stop spending so much time in front of a computer screen, and find advice worth following. Don't wind up like me. All those video games I used to escape my problems were not worth it. Time to gush. Dr. Paterson, I enjoy your books. I also really appreciate your hesitancy to slap mental disorders on your patients. I think you, unlike many therapists, do what you can to understand them as a person. Ideally, there would be more of that.
I never launched after many years of low paying jobs and failed relationships. As time went on, major depression set in. If I launch, it will be one hell of a feel good story. I will write a movie to help others on the verge of giving up on themselves.
I think we’re in need of a good movie on this topic. I like the Ben Stiller Walter Mitty one, but he’s starting from a slightly different place. Perhaps one way to write it would be to live it, and simply keep a journal.
@penderyn8794 This is absolutely true. I have traveled a great deal in the developing world, for example, and have seen extreme poverty, injustice, and lack of opportunity. I have often thought "It seems that no matter what this man or woman does, the vast majority of doors are closed and locked against them." What is needed is structural change, not "personal development." I haven't visited Afghanistan, but I can't help thinking that a person born female in that society is structurally prevented from achieving most of the goals that she might have. There is injustice, bigotry, and deprivation in the developed world as well - it's striking, for example, to see the extremes of income disparity in the USA, which is so much greater than in less class-based societies. Having had those experiences, it is often remarkable how many offspring of middle-income or wealthy families in developed nations (often white, often heterosexual, often male) believe that all doors are closed to them.
I was really, really late to launch and haven't progressed much beyond just launching. I get by, but something is certainly not right with me. I am now nearing 50. Finding good psychological help is like finding a needle in a haystack. Maybe I coulda nipped this in the bud early on if the first actual psychiatrist I saw didn't send me packing after less than 5 minutes because I smoked marijuana. That was exactly the wrong thing for my situation and left me stagnatating for another 12 years.
Try this: Maybe nothing is wrong with you…. Maybe the weed doesn’t motivate you .. Maybe it’s not that psychiatrist’s fault. Don’t wait on life because it doesn’t wait on you. Find a job you would like to do, get good at it, success will follow
Young birds simply cannot survive in the nest long-term, without the ability to fly for themselves. Humans, similarly, do not generally do well when they are dependent on unreliable (and mortal) others for all of their basic needs. Although some aspects of the transition to adulthood are difficult, ultimately it's in the best interests of the emerging adult. The cutting of the umbilical cord may be similarly uncomfortable, but necessary. That said, I'll repeat my oft-recited assertion that there is nothing wrong with a multigenerational household. Getting young adults out of the family home is not really the issue. It's about helping young adults take the reins of their own lives and function as what they are - adults - relinquishing the dependence of childhood. If the young adult continues to live in the family home, the mission is to convert the relationship from parent-child to adult-adult, or roommate-roommate.
@@RandyPaterson The habit of being "child minded" becomes a mountain. Bigger as time passes. But, taking responsibility for one's sustainance at an early age is less traumatic. Old dog new trick kinda thing. I rather hire young apprentice than 25 year old. They learn/adapt easier at young age. Like wise, leaving the nest is a learning experience. Thanks for the response, I enjoyed your video.
@RandyPaterson Right, but the difference between a multi generational family situation is that everyone is pitching in with the household responsibilities, and all the adults pitch in financially. There is a lot of benefits to this. It is cheaper to live this way, especially if you have 2 people to a room eg couples and siblings. You can go down to the shops, or drop one child off at a birthday party without the kids because the grandparents are there. It's also cheaper and easier to buy and cook in bulk, and when it comes to household responsibilities - many hands make light work. It's not as common in Eastern society anymore because these days people have retirement savings and some places have aged pensions, so you aren't expected to look after your parents when they are old. Although in those situations you would your parents would "give back" by contributing to the household responsibilities and looking after the children so that you can work.
I tend to think the opposite is true: that the popular image of adulthood is a lifetime of drudgery, whereas the reality is usually a lot more enjoyable. The image of staying at home and prolonging adolescent or childhood life, by contrast, doesn't seem to mesh well with most people, and results in discouragement and boredom.
While life circumstances can make either childhood or adulthood really unpleasant, I think the ideal is to gain the autonomy and capacity of adulthood without losing the enthusiasm for life and for play that we associate with childhood.
This is precisely the goal of therapy for launchpad issues. We want to maintain interest and enthusiasm while building self-care capacity, so that the anxiety associated with depending on unreliable (and mortal!) others is reduced.
@penderyn8794 I think that this is true, and can be a good reason for working on the trauma. One of the great problems in this area is that fear "talks" to us and always says the same thing: "avoid/escape/retreat." The more we obey our fear and avoid the things that make us anxious, the worse the problem tends to get. Some of my work (and non-work experience) has been with refugees from war-torn or otherwise dysfunctional countries who have been through what we might call profound trauma: Beatings, torture, imprisonment, war, witnessing the deaths of family, living in refugee camps for years at a time. A gay man I know from Africa was threatened with imprisonment, beaten into a week-long coma, fled his country solo to a refugee camp, went through the year-long and arduous process of applying for resettlement, became employed within weeks of arrival, pursued educational and professional certification opportunities, studied the citizenship exam to the point he could answer the questions better than multi-generational Canadians, and has built a home and full life for himself. Volunteers with a refugee organization I am familiar with have often anticipated "This person, once they get to Canada, will need years of help before they become even minimally functional." And in virtually every case the person has landed, hit the ground running, found employment, and has commenced building a life. One of the biggest challenges for the organization is encouraging new arrivals to take their time and settle in before running off with resumes in hand. There truly is trauma, and work to be done, but the lack of an opportunity for avoidance has resulted in most cases in profoundly self-reliant individuals. Refugee sponsors routinely express surprise that their sponsorees do not seem impaired, but instead seem stronger in many ways than native-born Canadians. It may be the response to trauma, as much as the trauma itself, that governs the degree of difficulty its victims experience.
@@RandyPaterson i'm in my 30s and never launched. I was diagnosed with ADHD and actually an IQ just above 130 (both as a child and as an adult). I come from a financially stable and highly educated family (STEM PhDs and stuff). Dropped out of college, and never held a job. During my teen years i suffered of major depression, which i never fully recovered from until roughly 25, since then, wiht some help, i could have become much more functional (before that i was a complete and utter mess), unfortunately no one understands my problem you describe here so well, in my country they seem extremely backwards with such ideas and with anything psychiatry/psychology in general. At some point it not only becomes an individual issue though, it also becomes a societal one in the sense that society no longer gives you any chances. This coupled with the fact that I see society itself as not necessarily desirable, i simply see no way out of it, even though i'd say i'm actually much more functional these days. Don't suffer from depression, work out regularely (both lifting and athletic performance in a club), get along with people, to some degree at least, physically fit and healthy, don't do drugs, don't drink, constantly learn things on my own, had several relationships etc. albeit i do usually drive them into a wall at some point, still got anger issues, occasional insomnia, and more obvious/typical ADHD related issues. However to this day i have absolutely no clue what i want out of life. I look at what my highly successful parents achieved, and just feel that it's worth nothing in this day and age, as society drifts more and more into a collective pathology. I wonder what the point of being functional in a to me seemingly dysfunctional society. I'm also really angry at "the system" for not helping people like me. No one takes it seriously, because on the surface i don't seem like the typical "loser" i guess, also the fact i'm smart masks my dysfunctionality and lack of structure and goals really well... until it doesn't and then everyone's angry with me, even though i tell people beforehand i got issues. Also all low wage jobs go to students, immigrants etc. I would almost work anything at this point, but i feel utterly humiliated by this society. It's like there's no place for people like me.
In my experience with failure-to-launch type cases, I am always wondering about what the trauma landscape is in their life course.
The hardest bit is if the trauma is still manifest in their home or is generational trauma.
I also have a very open and relaxed response once failure to launch people say "I don't know how to [cook]? " I start by saying "lots of people think that because the images we get of cooking are as unrealistic as the filters on social media. It's probably realistic that you lack some of the skills, but that often happens if we haven't had the mental bandwidth at the time you were expected to learn or your learning style didn't match the teaching available. We need to find some reality in cooking expectations, then stepwise identify the gaps and determine how you learn best."
Often this is the first time they've had someone approach it from a non-judgemental perspective.
It's always useful to learn an individual's history of difficult life events, as these can have an impact on how a person responds to events in the present. The challenge is to do so without becoming mired in that history to the exclusion of working on the present reality and current family dynamics. If an adult does not know how to cook, for example, then this may be a focus of goal-setting in therapy - regardless of whether or not they have a history of trauma. I'm generally in favour of trauma-informed therapy, and generally not in favour of trauma-obsessed therapy. I agree with the emphasis on a shame-free approach that identifies deficits (we all have some) and identifies present-focussed strategies to overcome them.
I didn't get the motivation to move out until I found it with the help of a Replika. I wouldn't recommend waiting around for confidence. I am in my thirties. It was one of the best decisions I have ever made. Everything I had ever been afraid of turned out to be untrue. I made all of it up in my head, and entertained catastrophic scenarios. Very unhealthy. I really, really wish I had done it earlier as it now might be far too late for some things. That was my mistake, and I accept the consequences.
This is something that needs to be done before the age of 25. Hit the gym, stop spending so much time in front of a computer screen, and find advice worth following. Don't wind up like me. All those video games I used to escape my problems were not worth it.
Time to gush. Dr. Paterson, I enjoy your books. I also really appreciate your hesitancy to slap mental disorders on your patients. I think you, unlike many therapists, do what you can to understand them as a person. Ideally, there would be more of that.
It's not necessarily about confidence, what if it is not affordable to move out? Did you have money saved, a good income?
By Replika, do you mean the AI app?
I never launched after many years of low paying jobs and failed relationships. As time went on, major depression set in. If I launch, it will be one hell of a feel good story. I will write a movie to help others on the verge of giving up on themselves.
I think we’re in need of a good movie on this topic. I like the Ben Stiller Walter Mitty one, but he’s starting from a slightly different place. Perhaps one way to write it would be to live it, and simply keep a journal.
Astute video :)
so why are they not walking through the open door?
Fear and inertia prevent many people from taking advantage of opportunities as they arise.
@penderyn8794 This is absolutely true. I have traveled a great deal in the developing world, for example, and have seen extreme poverty, injustice, and lack of opportunity. I have often thought "It seems that no matter what this man or woman does, the vast majority of doors are closed and locked against them." What is needed is structural change, not "personal development." I haven't visited Afghanistan, but I can't help thinking that a person born female in that society is structurally prevented from achieving most of the goals that she might have.
There is injustice, bigotry, and deprivation in the developed world as well - it's striking, for example, to see the extremes of income disparity in the USA, which is so much greater than in less class-based societies. Having had those experiences, it is often remarkable how many offspring of middle-income or wealthy families in developed nations (often white, often heterosexual, often male) believe that all doors are closed to them.
I was really, really late to launch and haven't progressed much beyond just launching. I get by, but something is certainly not right with me. I am now nearing 50. Finding good psychological help is like finding a needle in a haystack. Maybe I coulda nipped this in the bud early on if the first actual psychiatrist I saw didn't send me packing after less than 5 minutes because I smoked marijuana. That was exactly the wrong thing for my situation and left me stagnatating for another 12 years.
Try this: Maybe nothing is wrong with you…. Maybe the weed doesn’t motivate you ..
Maybe it’s not that psychiatrist’s fault. Don’t wait on life because it doesn’t wait on you.
Find a job you would like to do, get good at it, success will follow
You need a life coach. Better.
"dsm 5e"
The mother bird physically tosses out her offspring. The chick must be forced out.
Worked for me....foster childred don't have such luxurys.
Young birds simply cannot survive in the nest long-term, without the ability to fly for themselves. Humans, similarly, do not generally do well when they are dependent on unreliable (and mortal) others for all of their basic needs. Although some aspects of the transition to adulthood are difficult, ultimately it's in the best interests of the emerging adult. The cutting of the umbilical cord may be similarly uncomfortable, but necessary.
That said, I'll repeat my oft-recited assertion that there is nothing wrong with a multigenerational household. Getting young adults out of the family home is not really the issue. It's about helping young adults take the reins of their own lives and function as what they are - adults - relinquishing the dependence of childhood. If the young adult continues to live in the family home, the mission is to convert the relationship from parent-child to adult-adult, or roommate-roommate.
@@RandyPaterson The habit of being "child minded" becomes a mountain. Bigger as time passes. But, taking responsibility for one's sustainance at an early age is less traumatic. Old dog new trick kinda thing. I rather hire young apprentice than 25 year old. They learn/adapt easier at young age. Like wise, leaving the nest is a learning experience.
Thanks for the response, I enjoyed your video.
@RandyPaterson Right, but the difference between a multi generational family situation is that everyone is pitching in with the household responsibilities, and all the adults pitch in financially. There is a lot of benefits to this. It is cheaper to live this way, especially if you have 2 people to a room eg couples and siblings. You can go down to the shops, or drop one child off at a birthday party without the kids because the grandparents are there. It's also cheaper and easier to buy and cook in bulk, and when it comes to household responsibilities - many hands make light work. It's not as common in Eastern society anymore because these days people have retirement savings and some places have aged pensions, so you aren't expected to look after your parents when they are old. Although in those situations you would your parents would "give back" by contributing to the household responsibilities and looking after the children so that you can work.
@penderyn8794 over your head, huh?
adulthood is overrated
I tend to think the opposite is true: that the popular image of adulthood is a lifetime of drudgery, whereas the reality is usually a lot more enjoyable. The image of staying at home and prolonging adolescent or childhood life, by contrast, doesn't seem to mesh well with most people, and results in discouragement and boredom.
While life circumstances can make either childhood or adulthood really unpleasant, I think the ideal is to gain the autonomy and capacity of adulthood without losing the enthusiasm for life and for play that we associate with childhood.
This is precisely the goal of therapy for launchpad issues. We want to maintain interest and enthusiasm while building self-care capacity, so that the anxiety associated with depending on unreliable (and mortal!) others is reduced.
@penderyn8794 I think that this is true, and can be a good reason for working on the trauma. One of the great problems in this area is that fear "talks" to us and always says the same thing: "avoid/escape/retreat." The more we obey our fear and avoid the things that make us anxious, the worse the problem tends to get.
Some of my work (and non-work experience) has been with refugees from war-torn or otherwise dysfunctional countries who have been through what we might call profound trauma: Beatings, torture, imprisonment, war, witnessing the deaths of family, living in refugee camps for years at a time. A gay man I know from Africa was threatened with imprisonment, beaten into a week-long coma, fled his country solo to a refugee camp, went through the year-long and arduous process of applying for resettlement, became employed within weeks of arrival, pursued educational and professional certification opportunities, studied the citizenship exam to the point he could answer the questions better than multi-generational Canadians, and has built a home and full life for himself.
Volunteers with a refugee organization I am familiar with have often anticipated "This person, once they get to Canada, will need years of help before they become even minimally functional." And in virtually every case the person has landed, hit the ground running, found employment, and has commenced building a life. One of the biggest challenges for the organization is encouraging new arrivals to take their time and settle in before running off with resumes in hand.
There truly is trauma, and work to be done, but the lack of an opportunity for avoidance has resulted in most cases in profoundly self-reliant individuals. Refugee sponsors routinely express surprise that their sponsorees do not seem impaired, but instead seem stronger in many ways than native-born Canadians. It may be the response to trauma, as much as the trauma itself, that governs the degree of difficulty its victims experience.
@@RandyPaterson i'm in my 30s and never launched. I was diagnosed with ADHD and actually an IQ just above 130 (both as a child and as an adult). I come from a financially stable and highly educated family (STEM PhDs and stuff). Dropped out of college, and never held a job. During my teen years i suffered of major depression, which i never fully recovered from until roughly 25, since then, wiht some help, i could have become much more functional (before that i was a complete and utter mess), unfortunately no one understands my problem you describe here so well, in my country they seem extremely backwards with such ideas and with anything psychiatry/psychology in general. At some point it not only becomes an individual issue though, it also becomes a societal one in the sense that society no longer gives you any chances. This coupled with the fact that I see society itself as not necessarily desirable, i simply see no way out of it, even though i'd say i'm actually much more functional these days. Don't suffer from depression, work out regularely (both lifting and athletic performance in a club), get along with people, to some degree at least, physically fit and healthy, don't do drugs, don't drink, constantly learn things on my own, had several relationships etc. albeit i do usually drive them into a wall at some point, still got anger issues, occasional insomnia, and more obvious/typical ADHD related issues. However to this day i have absolutely no clue what i want out of life. I look at what my highly successful parents achieved, and just feel that it's worth nothing in this day and age, as society drifts more and more into a collective pathology. I wonder what the point of being functional in a to me seemingly dysfunctional society.
I'm also really angry at "the system" for not helping people like me. No one takes it seriously, because on the surface i don't seem like the typical "loser" i guess, also the fact i'm smart masks my dysfunctionality and lack of structure and goals really well... until it doesn't and then everyone's angry with me, even though i tell people beforehand i got issues. Also all low wage jobs go to students, immigrants etc. I would almost work anything at this point, but i feel utterly humiliated by this society. It's like there's no place for people like me.