I know he's not on the ballot anymore but how tf is Fred McGriff not in the HoF? 493 homers, 284 average, 134 OPS+, in a 19 year career? I'm not even a fan of any of the teams he played on, but he was insanely good.
It’s probably due to the stupid 75% rule be received a good percentage of votes but he never reached the 75% mark I personally think the rule should be 50% percent
The HoF is not always about being one of the best players of all time. It’s about being one of the best players in the era they played in. Rolen is a HoFer. Best 3B in his era.
@The Norwegian I don't think it's fair to measure Rolen against two historically great players. A-Rods' numbers are inner-circle & Jones are among the top five all-time. I guess the question is; Why isn't there room enough for all three?
Bruh im sorry i respect your opinion but not Scott Rolen? Man has some of the best defensive metrics of all time along with a career .855 ops in 17 seasons played. Sure he's not an inner circle hall of famer but definitely deserves a spot
3B is an extremely unrepresented position in the HOF. Scott Rolen has to be a HOF and probably will get in at some point. Most people use the eye test and say he isn't a hof but his advanced stats show he was one of the most valuable 3B at the position. He played during the steroid era, and didn't use roids, while facing pitchers that did. He deserves to get in over players that actually CHEATED. And I"m one of the people saying Bonds should get in. But bottom line, Rolen is a HOF.
People use the "eye test" and say that hes not a HOFer, yet those same people said that Rolen was the best defensive third basemen of all time, mostly with the eye test. Talk about Cognitive Dissonance
Yes he does in an episode of MLB shredder they ranked the 18 center fielders that are in the hall of fame based on some kind of metric with offense and defense. He came in number 11. Yes that is right Kenny Lofton was better than 7 Center fielders that are already in the hall of fame. The writers voting are a dam joke.
As a braves fan, thank you for stating the truth about Andruw Jones. If Pujols didn't have one of the most humanly impossible seasons, Andruw would've won an mvp and made his hof case stronger. Nonetheless a hall-of-famer to me.
but that's Jones only season cracking the top 8 on an MVP ballot. Only received MVP votes in 5 seasons, only an AS in 5 seasons, only a SS once. He got old quick unfortunately.
@@ryukenhondaraiden that is still only 2 seasons cracking the top 8 on an MVP ballot. Centerfield is a tough position to get in. I can make a stronger case for Dale Murphy.
Don’t forget the doubles by Todd Helton. Dude was a doubles machine. I loved watching him as a kid. I’m very hopefully that he’ll make the hall of fame.
Scott Rolen: 70 career war... 7x all star, 8x gold gloves, not problematic like half of the guys listed Mark: I just don't REMEMBER him as a hof kinda guy idk lol
Interesting that my memory of Rolen is totally different. Especially the Cardinals years. Anyways we will see how he reacts to David Wright in a couple years, who is clearly inferior in numbers but a winner in nostalgia
Even tho I do think Rolen was better and more valuable, Delgado was extremely underrated throughout his entire career, and was clearly a better offensive player than Rolen, so they might be comparable.
@@chernandez212331 This is true, Delgado *was* an appreciably better batsmen than Rolen, although I'd add that firstly he's expected to be, given the defensive spectrum. I'd push back on "clearly a better offensive player" in general, because if you consider baserunning to be a component of offense, Delgado loses a lot of points for an underwater-level rate of extra bases taken (28%, compared to a league average in the 40/41 range and excellent 49% for Rolen) and also pretty poor run scoring percentage (27%, Rolen at 32, league average at the time of 31 per b-ref), in addition to not being a threat to steal whatsoever. Even by first base standards, Delgado wasn't a good defenseman at all, and on a rate basis (say dWAR or DRS/TZ per 162 games played, set minimum of say 1500 games at the position) Rolen is one of the three or four greatest defensive 3B of all time. So in summation, we're comparing a player who was at least "very good" at *every* facet of the game (Rolen) to a player who was fantastic at hitting but considerably below average at every other (Delgado). I do think Delgado would have been more widely appreciated in the states if he hadn't spent so many years in Toronto, and he was definitely fun to watch, but he is very far below Rolen as a Hall of Fame case.
I think they both should be in. Delgado was a better hitter in my eyes, but rolens gold gloves makes him the better overall player, and both deserve in. They both had better careers then ted Simmons, and Harold baines by a bit
@@danday9697 I agree with you in that they should both get in but I feel like Delgado’s accolades aren’t there and rolen was also a World Series champion and was one the best fielding third baseman ever
@@KishanPatel-hf6uq he is only 27 hr away from the 500 club with an over 900 ops and a career 380 obp. That's incredible. Fact is though, both deserve in more than Harold baines. So if he's in, you've gotta put them both in
@@ntrwgames6048 Betting on games you played in/managed is completely unacceptable and borders on fraud. Also, Rose voluntarily accepted a lifetime ban in exchange for ending MLB's investigation into his dealings. He voluntarily disqualified himself from the HoF as far as I'm concerned.
@@ferdinandfoch7816 ik he isn’t allowed to be in but he should. And he didn’t bet on games he was in and especially never against his own team and every player has fraud issues. Eddie Murray the most unproblematic dude ever was involved in some fraud stuff.
@@ntrwgames6048 We don't know that he never bet on games he was in because he begged the MLB to stop the investigation. Due to Rose's long history of lying about his gambling habits, we can't give him the benefit of the doubt. Hell, the guy in charge of the investigation into Rose says that he probably bet on the Reds to lose. It's always unethical to bet on games that you influence the outcome of. Should umpires be allowed to bet on games they call? What Rose did was highly unethical, he knew it was prohibited, he did it anyway, he lied about it, and he got caught. He made his bed, now he can lie in it.
Todd Heltons average OPS from '98-'07 was 1.017. Mike Trouts between '12-'21 was 1.011. Asking Rockies players to hit .380 and OPS 1.200 for their careers just because they play in Coors is so asinine Also if you want to play the position/OPS+ card, Todd Helton and Freddie Freeman are both First Basemen in the 130 OPS+ territory. Freeman isn't there yet but if he plays until he's 39 like Helton did he will more than likely be a hall of famer
I genuinely think Andruw Jones would be viewed differently by the general public if his peak had been 25-34 instead of from 20-29. People talk about how he fell off once he hit 30 but fail to mention that he came into the majors at 19. To me, if you’re the best defensive centerfielder for a decade (and not too shabby with the bat either), you’re the best defensive centerfielder for a decade. It shouldn’t matter when that decade came from.
Same with Tori Hunter. They both are legends in my eyes. When he came to the Yanks i was a very happy fan. did he do anything huge for them? no but i didnt even care. He was still a great Glove
Omar Vizquel should be in Hall of Fame. 11 gold gloves. Hit .272 for career and has 2,877 hits. Was a good hitter. Defense in all sports never get enough love. If Ozzie Smith is in on just defense Omar sould as well. Also hate when people say longevity as a bad thing. Played 24 years,not like they hand them out.
K-Rod is absolutely a hall of fame one of only 6 players with 400 saves would have had 500 if the brewers didn't try and make him a set up man holds the single season record for saves 1000Ks as a closer all the numbers are there
Don't really know where you got that from, the only player with a hof resume he left off was rolen and sheffield, no one else really has a strong case for hof
@@therhyano1850 not one person you listed is or will get in because of character. They all deserve in from being a hof caliber player. Likeability should never get you in.
@@swisscheese6456 Schilling. Go look at his stats, and then look at his post season stats on top of it. Might have been the best post season pitcher of all time along with over 3k strikeouts
IMO Todd Helton should definitely get into the HOF And honestly I’m surprised that Andrew Jones who played with the Braves is not in the HOF. He won 10 gold gloves if I’m not mistaken and almost made 500 HR
434, in only 10 years, from age 19... beat up by all the diving and then people moan he didn't play well after 30... and then let in others based on "best 7 seasons" yadayada
What keep Jones out is the fact that he was a lifetime .254 hitter, never won a World Series even though he had so many opportunities throughout his career, and when he dropped off, he dropped off numbers wise at the end.
@@darthmaul8485 Nobody looks at lifetime BA or team stats like World Series wins for HOF consideration. It's about your peak decade or so of playing. Jones has it rough since people are hard-focusing on his drop-off instead of how incredible he was during his peak. For 11 straight seasons (97 to 07) the dude played 153 to 162 games per season at the level he played at.
how else can he be honored? he has his own award he has broken and held remarkable records he is in the hall of fame he has his number retired by two teams he had a ten minute tribute in game 3 of the world series and his number in truist's center field for all of 2021
It’s harder to appreciate his ability when he played before many of us were born. A lot of people that saw him play would say he’s the best player ever. Someone younger like me can appreciate Bonds and Trout cause we can watch a lot more video of them.
@@therhyano1850 Aaron's feats and life was well documented people talk about how Jackie Robinson was ridiculed in his early years in the MLB, Aaron had to put up with that kind of mistreatment while he was developing he was never loud when he succeeded, but always shook any offered hand Hammerin' Hank is the gold standard
I couldn't leave out Vizquel for ONLY being a glove. Dude was so exceptional with that glove that people said fuck the fact that he can't hit , we gotta keep him. He is a Hall Of Famer to me.
He is a hall of famer no doubt. Forgot to mention his 400 career stolen bases and the fact that he had 3 seasons where he committed 5 or fewer errors while playing 150 games. The total amount of times that has ever happened in baseball since 1900 is 6 times Omar did it 3 of those 6 times. Yeah I’m sorry he is probably the greatest fielding short stop in history. His 2,877 hits is more than Babe Ruth’s 2,873. Just saying numbers are numbers. Also his 456 Doubles is only 50 behind Babe Ruth 506. Come on man you got to give Omar more credit that you did he was a good hitter you don’t get 7,000 career at bats in the number 2 hole by not getting on base. Also he score 1,445 career runs. Most of those at bats hitting 8 and 9 where when he was a part time player in Seattle and towards the end of his career in San Francisco where he was an everyday player and was still winning Gold Gloves.
That's why I don't think Ortiz should be in the Hall. All he did was hit. I don't care what numbers he put up, or what others think. Position players need to be 5 tool, or if they're 4 or 3 tool players, one tool had to be soo freakin good and the others have to be at least average. One tool doesn't cut it for me
Jimmy Rollins is one of 3 players with 2000 hits, 500 doubles, 100 triples, 200 homers, and 400 steals. He’s the only of the 3 with an MVP and/or Gold Glove, and he has 4 at the premium position. And the most hits in his franchise’s history that’s been around since the 1880s. He’s in.
You have to also consider defense also when it comes to the hall of fame and to me that gets rolen in. Just as good as brooks Robinson defensively and better offensively. Rolen gets my vote easily.
Are u dumb?Like actully Did Rolen ever win MVP Did Rolen ever win WS MVP Did Rolen win 16 consecutive gold gloves Did rolen ancor a team that consistently made the WS
@@billyhagen1137 have you looked at scott rolens stats like have you at all he ill give you that he was not better than robinson defensively but he is still one of the best fielding and hitting for that matter in the live ball era and and when you add a .855 ops career ops with an average 25 hrs 105 rbis and insane defense you cannot tell me thats not hall of fame worthy
As soon as the writers put Bed Selig into the Hall of Fame, all of the players that took steroids should get a pass. After the 1994 strike, the owners were taking a blood bath in revenue when baseball resumed play. Along comes the "chicks dig the longball" commercials and the epic home run races between McGwire and Sosa. Baseball owners knew damn well what was going on. They turned the other way because all of the sudden baseball was experiencing record breaking crowds and the owners were making money hand over fist. The guy overseeing baseball at the time was Bud Selig. The owners and Selig all knew that steroids were rampant. They all chose to look the other way and reap record profits. Then steroids become officially banned and it is only the players fault that they were using them? To me, the baseball hall of fame is strictly the most dominant players of their era. If you need to put a steroids wing onto the hall of fame then so be it. Players have always searched for an edge, just go further back and look at players using greenies, spitballs, whatever the case may be. Honestly if using steroids is the barometric that the writers want to use as if the player should be in the hall of fame then the players that want consideration should all have to take a polygraph test to show if they used steroids. It shouldn't be up to the baseball writers to determine whether or not they think a players was juicing. I guarantee you that some of the players that the writers have elected were definitely on the juice. Bonds, Clemens, ARoid, Sosa, (maybe McGwire too) should all be in the hall of fame. Also need to revisit Palmeiro as his numbers jump off the page. Make a separate wing or whatever you have to do, but these players all deserve a place in the most dominant players of their era.
I honestly don't understand how he doesn't think Scott rolen deserves to be in the Hof. He was one of the best defensive third basemen in his era. 7x all star and an 8x gold glover at a very difficult position. He deserves to be a hall of famer big time. The guy was still putting up great numbers, made an all star game, won a gold glove and received MVP votes in his age 35 season. I think an 8x gold glover definitely had a pretty memorable career, even a hall of fame career. I honestly don't understand a lot of mark's takes.
Please elaborate on Curt Schilling being a garbage person. Let me guess. It’s because of the journalist thing, right? You do know he’s contributed so much money to ALS, right? I’m sorry Marc, but from one baseball RUclipsr to another, to make a statement like that without backing it up is just irresponsible. You should be better than that.
If anyone has any questions about Todd Helton in the HOF, look at his home/road splits. The guy still raked on the road, consistently, throughout his entire career. Take your Coors Field excuse and throw it out the window, it's irrelevant, he's a HOFer.
If I had a ballot: Abreu - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot Bonds - Yes, greatest hitter ever Buehrle - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot Clemens - Yes, (maybe) greatest pitcher ever Crawford - No Fielder - No Helton - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot Howard - No Hudson - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot Hunter - No Jones - Yes, (maybe) the greatest defensive center fielder ever and he had a big bat too Kent - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot Lincecum - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot Morneau - No Nathan - No Ortiz - Yes, monster bat that was even scarier in the postseason, won an ALCS MVP, a WS MVP and 3 WS rings Papelbon - No Peavy - No Pettitte - Yes, higher bWAR than HOF pitchers Jim Bunning and Hal Newhouser, won an ALCS MVP and 4 WS rings Pierzynski - No Ramirez - Yes, (maybe) the greatest right-handed hitter of his generation Rodriguez - Yes, Greatest shortstop/third baseman ever Rolen - Yes, higher fWAR than fellow HOF third basemen Paul Moliter and Harmon Killebrew, won a WS ring Rollins - No Schilling - Yes, 20th highest pitcher fWAR ever, ahead of fellow pitchers John Smoltz (HOF) and Justin Verlander (future HOF), won an NLCS MVP, WS MVP and 3 WS rings Sheffield - Yes, played when he was a teen all the way until he was 40 and still has a career OPS over .900, won a WS ring Sosa - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot Teixeira - No Vizquel - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot Wagner - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot
@angel paige I think you meant to reply to someone else I never said Arod.. But too anyone that has ever cheated the game doesn't belong in the HOF.. If anyone of these guys get in Pete Rose would have to get in
I don't care if curt Schilling is hated or not. He deserves to be in. Had 3k strikeouts, and is one of the the best post season pitchers of all time with a 11-2 record and a 2.2 era. He was lights out in the post season. If people get voted in just because they are nice guys, then the hof is a joke. How do you not put in a guy that was a top 3 best ss of all time with 2700 hits in vizquel. If someone who stinks on defense can get in, why cant a guy who is slightly better than avg hitter but top 3 defensive at his position?
@@fooman27jenkins44 ted Simmons is in with less hits, and omar was one of the best fielders in history. Along with 400 sb. If ted Simmons is in, you've gotta put omar in. 11 gold gloves is incredible
I’m not disagreeing that people are in that i don’t feel should be in, but you cant remove someone that was already inducted. Lou Whitaker should be in, but he’s not. I dont think anyone with a War under 50 should be going into the HOF. Just my personal opinion.
@@fooman27jenkins44 Lou Whittaker was a great player, but his stats are almost identical with Omar's stats. Slightly less hits, more hrs. Identical avg and obp. Less sb, so it's close, but defense should play a factor, and that amount of gold gloves should count for something.
I agree Schilling is a HOFer and should be in already. And he's also one of the top 3 to 5 pitchers in postseason history. However, he did state he didn't want anyone to vote for him this year and he asked to be taken off the ballot. So I have no problem honoring the man's wishes.
@@DonjoSports so what if he did good in the post. andy did, many did. he was not beckett, pedro or randy on those teams in the post. his carer stunk until he got hurt and at age 34 had some good years. odd..huh.
@@albundy8192 Andy had a 3.81 ERA in the postseason. His career regular season ERA was 3.85. Petitte was not all that great in the postseason. He played on great teams. Schilling also has a better career ERA than many pitchers and over 3,000 Ks. He also has a better BAA, OBPA, and OPSA than many HOF pitchers. Plus for the WARheads out there his WAR alone is HOF worthy enough.
Mark Buehrle, even as a White Sox fan, to me, seemed like a guy just barely on the outside looking in until I saw last year's Fangraphs article about his chances. He was a legitimate ace from 2001 to 2014 (yes, a couple poor years mixed in), 5 All Stars (first was '02, last was '14). No, he was never 'the best pitcher in the game' and his style was toolsy and not a strikeout machine, but he was effective. It might take a old-timers player vote in a few decades, but I do think he deserves to be in the Hall.
@@bruce4303 Appreciate it, big time. And as a rival, I still can't believe MLB didn't do more to promote and celebrate Miggy's historic Triple Crown year. The guy should've been a household name after that year, up there with Gretzky & Jordan.
I'd sacrifice both Bonds and Kent for Will Clark to get into the HOF. You talk about Lincecum having his career cut short due to injuries, but Clark was the first Giant to have injuries destroy his career. Watch his early career if you get the chance. He was like the next Pete Rose, but hit for more power. His fight with Ozzie Smith was legendary.
Andy has more post season wins than literally any other pitcher ever. Part of the core 4 won many rings and was a key component of one of the most dominant teams ever.....but ok?
He also never had a losing season, very consistent and frankly with CC Sabathia only a couple of years away from his own induction the fact that Pettitte still gets dissed is sickening to watch.
When it comes to Rollins, you clearly let offensive bias cloud your judgement when it comes to defense. Rollins was a defensive wizard ( could easily make the HoF based off his defense but he was solid offensively as well)....., rivaled Caminiti defensively at 3rd during his era and any of the other defensive greats...plus he wasn't bad offensively.
It’s weird, if your a good hitter but shit defender youll get votes but vise/versa its a different story, maybe its bc hitting is more popular or recognizable idk
Hey, fairly new baseball fan here. Can someone explain why Bobby Abreu isn’t a hofer? His numbers look to be on par with hof requirements. Don’t know the other outfielders of his time, so that might be why, but I’d like to know. Thank you 🙏🏾
In terms of Bonds, I look at it as While he very well took steroids, he was never suspended for it and it still takes serious skill to put up those number, I get Roids help but you still need the skill
PED can't help you hit a ball coming at you 90 plus . Ped helps you hit the ball further. So I agree Bonds should be in. He never failed a test, never got suspended. Only thing against Bonds is others words. You can look at pictures and make that decision also. But no real proof. Just thoughts and words is keeping Bonds out.
if you take out beltre, rolen could be considered the best third baseman since schmidt. I think he'd have better stats than Chipper if he averaged 150-155 games instead of 120, they'd at least be close. 300 HRs at third base with a 70 WAR is really good especially with 7 all stars and 8 gold gloves. I say he's better than Chipper if fully healthy btw bc he had an amazing glove and an amazing bat. Chipper was just the bat, and I think he could've been a DH in the AL.
I don't know if Beltre is a HOFer though. I am in the camp of Rolen getting in though. He's just TOO good to be left out. And, he had all those years, and you just don't hear anything about him being bad
i 100% respect anything you say now after the words i heard you say about my man roger clemens. thats real respect for baseball. you hate him but still see the talent. thats how i am. im a yankees fan but do i hate the redsox? no. i grew up in MA close to both foxboro stadium and not too far away from fenway and went to both atleast once a summer but im a born yankees fan. and also the truth about the greatest player of all time. Barry Bonds numbers BARELY changed when he elidgely started juicing. he was already cranking HR's and only difference afterwards is that he wasnt stealing 40+ bases anymore. But he didnt need to when he was hitting the MLB career record amount of HR's. Fans want to see them fly no matter who is batting! They both NEED to be in the HOF. And so does Pete Rose because of hitting stats! Stats dont lie..
It’s really tough to say that Scott Rolen isn’t a hall of famer. I kinda understand what you’re saying because when watching rolen play he never jumped out to me as one of the best players of all time. But when really looking at his career, he definitely belongs in. You make the point, several times when talking about outfielders, like Abreu, Hunter, etc., that they have numbers but weren’t the best outfielders of their generation and that hurts them. And jeff Kent. He gets a mention and consideration ONLY because he played second base. He was a terrible fielder though. His bat played and he could’ve been hidden in the outfield or something and if he was an outfielder, he wouldn’t get a second look. He’s be a poor fielder outfielder with good, but not great, numbers. The point is, position is extremely relevant to this discussion. No catchers would be in the hall if it was based on offense alone. Corner Outfielders and first basemen NEED to hit extraordinarily well to make the cut. Third base is not that way and is a premier defensive position. Look what happens when JD Davis is your everyday third baseman. He had an ops of 1.000 but got replaced by Villar because his defense was just unplayable. Well Rolen was easily THE best third basemen of his generation and was even the best defensive third basemen well into his late 30s. He was top 2 or 3 offensively for 3B over his career and was the best defensive 3B. And he had a long career. This wasn’t a short prime guy like David Wright or a guy who had to move off of third like Longoria and Zimmerman.
I know people will probably say I'm just bias and maybe so but I think Andy should get in. His numbers are ok but what puts him over the top for me is his individual postseason success as well as being a major cog in the Yankees machine
Yea generally speaking I don't think middle of the rotation guys should be in, but he was just so consistent and such a big part of some of the best teams of his era. And he would have been a top of the rotation guy if he wasn't surrounded by so many superstars through most of his career. I think he should be in too, but he is kind of on the bubble.
Omar absolutely a Hall of Famer. 2,877 Hits! More games played at shortstop than ANYBODY....EVER! (2,709). 11 Gold Gloves! He played for 24 seasons over 4 decades! Was the model Number 2 hitter! he did not bat ninth. He batted bewteen Lofton and Baerga/ Alomar was the ultimate compliment to the lineup. could bunt, steal get hits. Was far from a garbage person or teammate. Then, your next take is ...Billy Wagner should be in the hall????? Omar's impact (or really most position players) on baseball game is far far far greater than any reliever, Wagner included. 56 games played on average per season for Wagner, compared to vizquel's 123 per year.
Truthfully, I believe Pete Rose should be In the Hall of Fame. They need to look at this. As time has went on there are players that has done worst than Rose and is on the ballot and there are players in the Hall that are connected to PED . I'm willing to bet that Rose isn't the only player /Manager to gamble on any sports. Not just baseball. These days gambling isn't looked at as it was back in the 80s.
I feel like for Lincecum if he hasn't announced his retirement yet then he should be in the HOF in like 5 years. I think I saw something that said he's considered returning to MLB or that might've been another player like Puig. For Lincecum he's a great pitcher and should be in the HOF in the next 5-8 years
I am one of the biggest Big Time Timmy Jim fans you'll find but I have to say, despite him having what I consider to be possibly the best 3 years of any pitcher ever 07-10, his body breaking down just cut his career too short. Would love to see him in cooperstown, but it would be a stretch :(
My ballot includes 9 “no-doubters” and 1 somewhat questionable vote but I’ll explain *No-Doubters* Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Todd Helton(Fight me lol) Andruw Jones David Ortiz Alex Rodriguez Curt Schilling Billy Wagner Jeff Kent *Questionable vote* Torii Hunter The reason I picked Torii Hunter is because there are comparable players that either should be in, will get in, or are in. Players like this include Dale Murphy, Andre Dawson, Jim Edmonds. People always fight for andruw Jones and I’m one of them because I’m a braves fan, but torii hunter is a guy that should get talked about a lot more. Torii Hunter stats 2452 Hits 353 Home Runs .277 Average .793 Ops 50.7 bWAR 1391 RBI But these numbers are not where you’ll be convinced. The guy won 9 straight gold gloves. People call Andruw Jones the greatest defensive center fielder for his 10 straight. If you wanna call Andruw number one then Torii Hunter and Jim Edmonds are 2 and 3. Come on dude.
Ryan Howard should absolutely be in the Hall of Fame. He was undoubtable the best player for 3 years, fantastic for 2 other years and then got injured. Even after he got injured he came back and was still really good. He has to be.
something I dont hear alot of talk about but is important to the HoF voters is Defense!! they look at gold gloves and errors also not just offensive numbers. If they did more DH's would be in HoF
The most impressive thing about Wagner is that he taught himself how to pitch with his non dominant arm... And threw 100 MPH with it! That's honestly movie material!
David Ortiz, and Andrew Jones will get in. I hope the veterans make Don Mattingly, Steve Garvey, Bobby Grich and Bill Freehan a 10 time all star. I think Rafael Palmiero the only player who has 3000 hits and 500 Home Runs should bet in.
Here's something you have to ask yourself. Is Nolan Arenado a future Hall of Famer? If so, then how can you say that Scott Rolen isn't? The two are very similar both at the plate and in the field. And this is coming from a Cardinal fan who has watched, and greatly enjoyed watching both guys play.
Arenado's offensive numbers are far better, at least through this point in his career. Rolen's were great, and defensively they're pretty comparable. But Nolan has put up some consistently ridiculous numbers.
@@markzuckergecko621 I know people are tired of "Oh he played in Coors field" but yeah he played in Coors field. Larry Walker is in the hall because he hit great away from Coors as well. IF Arenado puts up some ridiculous seasons in St. Louis he'll be in the hall.
This is a great comparison Both are very similar in terms of stats even tho arenado has the coors effect And defensively they are both the best in their position during the times they played or in arendao’s case right now
Yes, you are right Rolen is not the pop up guy that comes to mind at first, but a solid career and the statistics endorse him as a Hall of Fame. Just a question: Why is not Billy Wagner in the Hall of Fame? Last year was ideal for his induction.
I’m really curious to see what they do with the Steroid era guys. If they let one in they have to let them all in, and I’m not sure the voters will vote for steroid users if they won’t vote for people with different political opinions.
Schilling should have already been in the HOF. Writers not voting for him due to political differences are a joke and are part of the reason the voting process is sometimes considered a joke. I agree with your take on the steroids guys. If one gets in then all the other ones with HOF numbers get in. Which means they must find a way to put McGwire and Palmeiro in as well.
Who is more HOF worthy? Player A: 58.6 bWAR, 2408 Hits, .344 OBP, 124 wRC+, 234 SB (connected to PEDs) Player B: 60.1 bWAR, 2470 Hits, .394 OBP, 129 wRC+, 400 SB (no ties to PEDs)
Vizquel is a hall of famer. The voters need to know that it’s not if you have 600 career homeruns. Just look at the player and his stat line. If he is a good player and his stat line is good than he should be in. Also stop not putting people in because of what he did with his actual life. That is not about baseball at all. I mean wasn’t ty cobb in the KKK.
Personally. I think Jose Altuve will eventually get in. Maybe he’ll wait like 5 to 8 years, but I think he’s a hall of famer. Despite the trash can controversy
Imagine if the White Sox never trade Sosa and have him and Thomas in the same line-up. I also feel that if Paul Konerko stayed on the ballot he would have recieved more votes because he is borderline and should not have fell off after 1 year on the ballot.
Konerko fell off simply because there are too many players with ties to steroids still on the ballot. Same reason Miguel Tejada was off the ballot after 1 year.
Hey man. Lifelong Phillies fan here. Don't hold it against me (well don't hold it against me too much, lol). Love your take on Rolen. However, if you had to choose one or the other, do you agree Abreu is the more worthy?
Yes I'm a yankees fan. But I do think that Mark texiera is a Hall of famer. He was so good and consistent for his whole career. Definitely top 20 1b of all time. And very underrated. I think he won't get in this year but within 3 more years he will be.
I'm a Yankees fan also, Teixeira should never be in before McGriff. Voters are tough on 1B. Those numbers better be off the charts. only 1B to get in over past 40 years are Eddie Murray, Frank Thomas, Jim Thome, and down the road Pujols and Cabrera. Teixeira has half the accolades of any of those guys.
Omar Vizquel is 100% a Hall of Famer Is he first ballot? No Would he get my vote here if I had only 10 to pick from this list? Probably Not But is he a Hall of Famer? YES A great comparison is Vizquel & Ozzie Smith. Yes, the Wizard of Oz is the better SS of the 2 BUT Omar leads him in every batting statistic except SBs… has 11 GGs while Ozzie has 13.. point is, they are very very close & Ozzie is a Hall of Famer.. therefore, Vizquel should be one too
Vizquel played like 5 more years than Smith and Smith was superior defensively. Smith's war is 67 while Vizquel's is 45. imo Vizquel is not a hof player.
@@xxxgogosox82xx So i went to Vizquel stats and removed the final 5 years of his career (2008-2012)...So from 1989 to 2007... Vizquel STILL leads Ozzie in ALL batting statistics except SBs (Leads Ozzie even in Triple-Slash Line). The WAR stat just proves what I said before that Ozzie is the better SS but Vizquel is a HOFer in my book. Look up his defensive highlights, he's a 11x Gold Glove Winner for a reason.
@@ArlisMJ1 Vizquel's fielding is overrated imo. His range was quite average. And while he has a high fielding %, that is prone to bias the official scorer for the game will decide if a play is an error or not. My feeling if your gonna be as bad of a hitter as Vizquel was, and he was a bad hitter, you better be elite defensively and i don't think he was. Again, 45 war in 24 seasons. only 2 all star games, no top 10 finishes in mvp. not a hof player imo
I know he's not on the ballot anymore but how tf is Fred McGriff not in the HoF? 493 homers, 284 average, 134 OPS+, in a 19 year career? I'm not even a fan of any of the teams he played on, but he was insanely good.
exactly, insane fucking insane
It’s probably due to the stupid 75% rule be received a good percentage of votes but he never reached the 75% mark I personally think the rule should be 50% percent
I agree and same as Jim Edmonds. Jim Edmonds could hit 400 homers if he was healthy. He could be on ballot. He is not.
Shoeless Joe should be in the HOF too
I don’t think he should be
The HoF is not always about being one of the best players of all time. It’s about being one of the best players in the era they played in.
Rolen is a HoFer. Best 3B in his era.
Thank you.
@The Norwegian I don't think it's fair to measure Rolen against two historically great players. A-Rods' numbers are inner-circle & Jones are among the top five all-time. I guess the question is; Why isn't there room enough for all three?
And this is why Brandon Nimmo should be a first ballot hall of famer
He actually is incredibly underrated
@@colin5484 yeah
@@colin5484 fr fav player on Mets bats like 300 ever season and walks a lot. Try’s his hardest Heath is the only issue.
@@pjk4451 he never walks…he runs everywhere!
@@pjk4451 and such a great guy, every interaction I've had with him he has been great
Bruh im sorry i respect your opinion but not Scott Rolen? Man has some of the best defensive metrics of all time along with a career .855 ops in 17 seasons played. Sure he's not an inner circle hall of famer but definitely deserves a spot
3B is an extremely unrepresented position in the HOF. Scott Rolen has to be a HOF and probably will get in at some point. Most people use the eye test and say he isn't a hof but his advanced stats show he was one of the most valuable 3B at the position. He played during the steroid era, and didn't use roids, while facing pitchers that did. He deserves to get in over players that actually CHEATED. And I"m one of the people saying Bonds should get in. But bottom line, Rolen is a HOF.
People use the "eye test" and say that hes not a HOFer, yet those same people said that Rolen was the best defensive third basemen of all time, mostly with the eye test. Talk about Cognitive Dissonance
Kenny Lofton definitely deserves to be in the HOF.
Yes he does in an episode of MLB shredder they ranked the 18 center fielders that are in the hall of fame based on some kind of metric with offense and defense. He came in number 11. Yes that is right Kenny Lofton was better than 7 Center fielders that are already in the hall of fame. The writers voting are a dam joke.
And this is why Jeff McNeil should be a first ballot HOF.
As a braves fan, thank you for stating the truth about Andruw Jones. If Pujols didn't have one of the most humanly impossible seasons, Andruw would've won an mvp and made his hof case stronger. Nonetheless a hall-of-famer to me.
but that's Jones only season cracking the top 8 on an MVP ballot. Only received MVP votes in 5 seasons, only an AS in 5 seasons, only a SS once. He got old quick unfortunately.
Andruw Jones was a pretty great player, too bad as a Dodgers fan than my lasting impression is his sad time with us
The fact that he’s the greatest defensive CF and has over 400 career home runs should make him a no doubt
He was also in the top 8 of the year 2000.
@@ryukenhondaraiden that is still only 2 seasons cracking the top 8 on an MVP ballot. Centerfield is a tough position to get in. I can make a stronger case for Dale Murphy.
And this is why all Mets players should be in the hall of fame
Don’t forget the doubles by Todd Helton. Dude was a doubles machine. I loved watching him as a kid. I’m very hopefully that he’ll make the hall of fame.
Helton is also 30th all time in OBP and 22nd all time in OPS. Anyone who says he is not a HOFer is being foolish.
Scott Rolen: 70 career war... 7x all star, 8x gold gloves, not problematic like half of the guys listed
Mark: I just don't REMEMBER him as a hof kinda guy idk lol
did not play in new york so little coverage
Interesting that my memory of Rolen is totally different. Especially the Cardinals years. Anyways we will see how he reacts to David Wright in a couple years, who is clearly inferior in numbers but a winner in nostalgia
Also World Series champion and clutch in the playoffs
@@AlbireoMahado totally interesting to see if Wright is even mentioned as he has no business in any HOF conversations.
No Scott Rolen? Foolish Baseball would be disappointed
If pitchers werent so scared of bonds his average would be above 298 and above 3,000 hits
Not to mention the home runs would be through the roof.
Marc seems to think Carlos Delgado was a more valuable player for his career than Scott Rolen. It's crazy what a stint with the Mets will do!
Even tho I do think Rolen was better and more valuable, Delgado was extremely underrated throughout his entire career, and was clearly a better offensive player than Rolen, so they might be comparable.
@@chernandez212331 This is true, Delgado *was* an appreciably better batsmen than Rolen, although I'd add that firstly he's expected to be, given the defensive spectrum. I'd push back on "clearly a better offensive player" in general, because if you consider baserunning to be a component of offense, Delgado loses a lot of points for an underwater-level rate of extra bases taken (28%, compared to a league average in the 40/41 range and excellent 49% for Rolen) and also pretty poor run scoring percentage (27%, Rolen at 32, league average at the time of 31 per b-ref), in addition to not being a threat to steal whatsoever.
Even by first base standards, Delgado wasn't a good defenseman at all, and on a rate basis (say dWAR or DRS/TZ per 162 games played, set minimum of say 1500 games at the position) Rolen is one of the three or four greatest defensive 3B of all time. So in summation, we're comparing a player who was at least "very good" at *every* facet of the game (Rolen) to a player who was fantastic at hitting but considerably below average at every other (Delgado). I do think Delgado would have been more widely appreciated in the states if he hadn't spent so many years in Toronto, and he was definitely fun to watch, but he is very far below Rolen as a Hall of Fame case.
I think they both should be in. Delgado was a better hitter in my eyes, but rolens gold gloves makes him the better overall player, and both deserve in. They both had better careers then ted Simmons, and Harold baines by a bit
@@danday9697 I agree with you in that they should both get in but I feel like Delgado’s accolades aren’t there and rolen was also a World Series champion and was one the best fielding third baseman ever
@@KishanPatel-hf6uq he is only 27 hr away from the 500 club with an over 900 ops and a career 380 obp. That's incredible. Fact is though, both deserve in more than Harold baines. So if he's in, you've gotta put them both in
Pete Rose deserves to be in the HoF before Bonds.
No he doesn’t lol
@@Brandon-uq1gr why not lol
@@ntrwgames6048 Betting on games you played in/managed is completely unacceptable and borders on fraud. Also, Rose voluntarily accepted a lifetime ban in exchange for ending MLB's investigation into his dealings. He voluntarily disqualified himself from the HoF as far as I'm concerned.
@@ferdinandfoch7816 ik he isn’t allowed to be in but he should. And he didn’t bet on games he was in and especially never against his own team and every player has fraud issues. Eddie Murray the most unproblematic dude ever was involved in some fraud stuff.
@@ntrwgames6048 We don't know that he never bet on games he was in because he begged the MLB to stop the investigation. Due to Rose's long history of lying about his gambling habits, we can't give him the benefit of the doubt. Hell, the guy in charge of the investigation into Rose says that he probably bet on the Reds to lose. It's always unethical to bet on games that you influence the outcome of. Should umpires be allowed to bet on games they call?
What Rose did was highly unethical, he knew it was prohibited, he did it anyway, he lied about it, and he got caught. He made his bed, now he can lie in it.
Todd Heltons average OPS from '98-'07 was 1.017. Mike Trouts between '12-'21 was 1.011. Asking Rockies players to hit .380 and OPS 1.200 for their careers just because they play in Coors is so asinine
Also if you want to play the position/OPS+ card, Todd Helton and Freddie Freeman are both First Basemen in the 130 OPS+ territory. Freeman isn't there yet but if he plays until he's 39 like Helton did he will more than likely be a hall of famer
Barry bonds is the best player of all time he needs to be in
Facts
nope, that would be ruth
@angel paige ruth is a baseball god. th greatest ever. so hell yes.
@angel paige nope babe ruth. ruth is also the home run king. aaron the home run leader. aaron is great..however
Barry Bonds is not..
I genuinely think Andruw Jones would be viewed differently by the general public if his peak had been 25-34 instead of from 20-29. People talk about how he fell off once he hit 30 but fail to mention that he came into the majors at 19. To me, if you’re the best defensive centerfielder for a decade (and not too shabby with the bat either), you’re the best defensive centerfielder for a decade. It shouldn’t matter when that decade came from.
Same with Tori Hunter. They both are legends in my eyes. When he came to the Yanks i was a very happy fan. did he do anything huge for them? no but i didnt even care. He was still a great Glove
Known die-hard mets fan trashes every single player on the ballot who was on the Phillie? hmm sounds disingenuous
Omar Vizquel should be in Hall of Fame. 11 gold gloves. Hit .272 for career and has 2,877 hits. Was a good hitter. Defense in all sports never get enough love. If Ozzie Smith is in on just defense Omar sould as well. Also hate when people say longevity as a bad thing. Played 24 years,not like they hand them out.
Plus, if Bill Mazeroski is in the HOF then Vizquel should be in. Mazeroski is in simply for his glove. Vizquel was a better hitter than Mazeroski too.
@@DonjoSports Mazeroski is also to some degree in for the walkoff
K-Rod is absolutely a hall of fame one of only 6 players with 400 saves would have had 500 if the brewers didn't try and make him a set up man holds the single season record for saves 1000Ks as a closer all the numbers are there
TLDW: Marc bases his HOF opinions on childhood memories rather than statistics
@@therhyano1850 all the players you named are some of the best of all time..
@@therhyano1850 all the examples you used are some of the greatest players of all time lol, doesnt help ur point
Don't really know where you got that from, the only player with a hof resume he left off was rolen and sheffield, no one else really has a strong case for hof
@@therhyano1850 not one person you listed is or will get in because of character. They all deserve in from being a hof caliber player. Likeability should never get you in.
@@swisscheese6456 Schilling. Go look at his stats, and then look at his post season stats on top of it. Might have been the best post season pitcher of all time along with over 3k strikeouts
Lol the liberal in Marc coming out with Curt Shilling.
Right, yes
God I am so glad J Roll won MVP in 07.
Pete Rose should be a Hall of Famer
Don’t Forget about shoeless Joe Jackson. They both need to get in because of MLB is allowing gambling in baseball.
IMO
Todd Helton should definitely get into the HOF
And honestly I’m surprised that Andrew Jones who played with the Braves is not in the HOF. He won 10 gold gloves if I’m not mistaken and almost made 500 HR
As a braves fan it’s a crime that he’s not in and also dale murphy
@@KishanPatel-hf6uq I agree
434, in only 10 years, from age 19... beat up by all the diving and then people moan he didn't play well after 30... and then let in others based on "best 7 seasons" yadayada
What keep Jones out is the fact that he was a lifetime .254 hitter, never won a World Series even though he had so many opportunities throughout his career, and when he dropped off, he dropped off numbers wise at the end.
@@darthmaul8485 Nobody looks at lifetime BA or team stats like World Series wins for HOF consideration. It's about your peak decade or so of playing. Jones has it rough since people are hard-focusing on his drop-off instead of how incredible he was during his peak. For 11 straight seasons (97 to 07) the dude played 153 to 162 games per season at the level he played at.
Hank Aaron is the best player of all time, people need to realize what he did!!
He’s one of theM him Willy bonds mickey mantle ate inthe conversation
how else can he be honored?
he has his own award
he has broken and held remarkable records
he is in the hall of fame
he has his number retired by two teams
he had a ten minute tribute in game 3 of the world series and his number in truist's center field for all of 2021
@@thedude3065 exactly
It’s harder to appreciate his ability when he played before many of us were born. A lot of people that saw him play would say he’s the best player ever. Someone younger like me can appreciate Bonds and Trout cause we can watch a lot more video of them.
@@therhyano1850 Aaron's feats and life was well documented
people talk about how Jackie Robinson was ridiculed in his early years in the MLB, Aaron had to put up with that kind of mistreatment while he was developing
he was never loud when he succeeded, but always shook any offered hand
Hammerin' Hank is the gold standard
Abreu should be a hof. 2400 hits, 288 hr, .291 ave, 400 sb, 574 2b. An he was a good defender with a above average arm as well.
I agree! He's still on the ballot (barely), and he also had 1453 Runs and 1363 RBI with 1476 Walks.
My ballot would be Bonds, Clemens, Helton, Jones, Kent, Ortiz, Ramirez, Sheffield, Sosa and Wagner
I couldn't leave out Vizquel for ONLY being a glove. Dude was so exceptional with that glove that people said fuck the fact that he can't hit , we gotta keep him. He is a Hall Of Famer to me.
Even after the sexual assault allegations?
He is a hall of famer no doubt. Forgot to mention his 400 career stolen bases and the fact that he had 3 seasons where he committed 5 or fewer errors while playing 150 games. The total amount of times that has ever happened in baseball since 1900 is 6 times Omar did it 3 of those 6 times. Yeah I’m sorry he is probably the greatest fielding short stop in history. His 2,877 hits is more than Babe Ruth’s 2,873. Just saying numbers are numbers. Also his 456 Doubles is only 50 behind Babe Ruth 506. Come on man you got to give Omar more credit that you did he was a good hitter you don’t get 7,000 career at bats in the number 2 hole by not getting on base. Also he score 1,445 career runs. Most of those at bats hitting 8 and 9 where when he was a part time player in Seattle and towards the end of his career in San Francisco where he was an everyday player and was still winning Gold Gloves.
That's why I don't think Ortiz should be in the Hall. All he did was hit. I don't care what numbers he put up, or what others think. Position players need to be 5 tool, or if they're 4 or 3 tool players, one tool had to be soo freakin good and the others have to be at least average. One tool doesn't cut it for me
@@9Kindz Didn't know about any allegations , but yes. Even with the allegations.
I would vote for
-Barry Bonds
-Big Papi
-A-Rod
-Manny Ramirez
-Roger Clemens
-Todd Helton
-Andruw Jones
schilling???
Jimmy Rollins is one of 3 players with 2000 hits, 500 doubles, 100 triples, 200 homers, and 400 steals. He’s the only of the 3 with an MVP and/or Gold Glove, and he has 4 at the premium position. And the most hits in his franchise’s history that’s been around since the 1880s. He’s in.
he had almost all of those stats purely on accumulation because he played for awhileeee i dont think his prime was good enough
@@billyking02 maybe he was steady enough for long enough with an MVP and 4 ASGs in his prime?
He may not get in on the first ballot, but 4th or 5th ballot, he may get in
You have to also consider defense also when it comes to the hall of fame and to me that gets rolen in. Just as good as brooks Robinson defensively and better offensively. Rolen gets my vote easily.
Are u dumb?Like actully
Did Rolen ever win MVP
Did Rolen ever win WS MVP
Did Rolen win 16 consecutive gold gloves
Did rolen ancor a team that consistently made the WS
@@billyhagen1137 have you looked at scott rolens stats like have you at all he ill give you that he was not better than robinson defensively but he is still one of the best fielding and hitting for that matter in the live ball era and and when you add a .855 ops career ops with an average 25 hrs 105 rbis and insane defense you cannot tell me thats not hall of fame worthy
@@shanefrfr9572 I m
Never said Rolen wasn't a hall of famer
I just said he wasn't as good as brooks Robinson
@@billyhagen1137 ooooo my bad i got heated 😭😭
Compare Ozzie Smith and Omar v. If Ozzie is in then Omar should be. Almost exactly alike except Omar hit better. Ozzie stole basses better.
As soon as the writers put Bed Selig into the Hall of Fame, all of the players that took steroids should get a pass. After the 1994 strike, the owners were taking a blood bath in revenue when baseball resumed play. Along comes the "chicks dig the longball" commercials and the epic home run races between McGwire and Sosa. Baseball owners knew damn well what was going on. They turned the other way because all of the sudden baseball was experiencing record breaking crowds and the owners were making money hand over fist. The guy overseeing baseball at the time was Bud Selig. The owners and Selig all knew that steroids were rampant. They all chose to look the other way and reap record profits. Then steroids become officially banned and it is only the players fault that they were using them?
To me, the baseball hall of fame is strictly the most dominant players of their era. If you need to put a steroids wing onto the hall of fame then so be it. Players have always searched for an edge, just go further back and look at players using greenies, spitballs, whatever the case may be. Honestly if using steroids is the barometric that the writers want to use as if the player should be in the hall of fame then the players that want consideration should all have to take a polygraph test to show if they used steroids. It shouldn't be up to the baseball writers to determine whether or not they think a players was juicing. I guarantee you that some of the players that the writers have elected were definitely on the juice.
Bonds, Clemens, ARoid, Sosa, (maybe McGwire too) should all be in the hall of fame. Also need to revisit Palmeiro as his numbers jump off the page. Make a separate wing or whatever you have to do, but these players all deserve a place in the most dominant players of their era.
I 100% agree. Not to mention the fact that there are already admitted cheaters in the HoF.
I'm of opinion that since McGwire and Palmeiro are not in the HOF then the other ones tied to PEDs shouldn't get in right now either.
As Braves Fan, thanks for fighting for Andruw Jones. I remember watching him growing up and could not agree more.
I honestly don't understand how he doesn't think Scott rolen deserves to be in the Hof. He was one of the best defensive third basemen in his era. 7x all star and an 8x gold glover at a very difficult position. He deserves to be a hall of famer big time. The guy was still putting up great numbers, made an all star game, won a gold glove and received MVP votes in his age 35 season. I think an 8x gold glover definitely had a pretty memorable career, even a hall of fame career. I honestly don't understand a lot of mark's takes.
If there is a solely defense qualifier for the Hall, Vizquel is in.
Please elaborate on Curt Schilling being a garbage person. Let me guess. It’s because of the journalist thing, right? You do know he’s contributed so much money to ALS, right? I’m sorry Marc, but from one baseball RUclipsr to another, to make a statement like that without backing it up is just irresponsible. You should be better than that.
👆👆👆
Yes, he absolutely should be better than that, but obviously he isn’t.
If anyone has any questions about Todd Helton in the HOF, look at his home/road splits. The guy still raked on the road, consistently, throughout his entire career. Take your Coors Field excuse and throw it out the window, it's irrelevant, he's a HOFer.
Thank you.
If I had a ballot:
Abreu - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot
Bonds - Yes, greatest hitter ever
Buehrle - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot
Clemens - Yes, (maybe) greatest pitcher ever
Crawford - No
Fielder - No
Helton - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot
Howard - No
Hudson - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot
Hunter - No
Jones - Yes, (maybe) the greatest defensive center fielder ever and he had a big bat too
Kent - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot
Lincecum - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot
Morneau - No
Nathan - No
Ortiz - Yes, monster bat that was even scarier in the postseason, won an ALCS MVP, a WS MVP and 3 WS rings
Papelbon - No
Peavy - No
Pettitte - Yes, higher bWAR than HOF pitchers Jim Bunning and Hal Newhouser, won an ALCS MVP and 4 WS rings
Pierzynski - No
Ramirez - Yes, (maybe) the greatest right-handed hitter of his generation
Rodriguez - Yes, Greatest shortstop/third baseman ever
Rolen - Yes, higher fWAR than fellow HOF third basemen Paul Moliter and Harmon Killebrew, won a WS ring
Rollins - No
Schilling - Yes, 20th highest pitcher fWAR ever, ahead of fellow pitchers John Smoltz (HOF) and Justin Verlander (future HOF), won an NLCS MVP, WS MVP and 3 WS rings
Sheffield - Yes, played when he was a teen all the way until he was 40 and still has a career OPS over .900, won a WS ring
Sosa - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot
Teixeira - No
Vizquel - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot
Wagner - No, but would plan to vote for him on a later, less stuffed ballot
Bonds, Clemens, Ortiz & A.Rod
Class of 2022. Without these guys in the HOF, it is not the Hall of Fame.
Steroid balled lol
@angel paige I think you meant to reply to someone else I never said Arod.. But too anyone that has ever cheated the game doesn't belong in the HOF.. If anyone of these guys get in Pete Rose would have to get in
@angel paige They all cheated none of them should get in..
the disrespect you just gave j roll is blasphemous.
He’s a Mets fans, to be expected tbh
@@kevalpatel5925 look at his stats.
Your views on Sammy just made me an even bigger fan of yours!!
I don't care if curt Schilling is hated or not. He deserves to be in. Had 3k strikeouts, and is one of the the best post season pitchers of all time with a 11-2 record and a 2.2 era. He was lights out in the post season. If people get voted in just because they are nice guys, then the hof is a joke.
How do you not put in a guy that was a top 3 best ss of all time with 2700 hits in vizquel. If someone who stinks on defense can get in, why cant a guy who is slightly better than avg hitter but top 3 defensive at his position?
I agree. His numbers are impressive he should get in.
Curt should be in, Not Omar
@@fooman27jenkins44 ted Simmons is in with less hits, and omar was one of the best fielders in history. Along with 400 sb. If ted Simmons is in, you've gotta put omar in. 11 gold gloves is incredible
I’m not disagreeing that people are in that i don’t feel should be in, but you cant remove someone that was already inducted. Lou Whitaker should be in, but he’s not. I dont think anyone with a War under 50 should be going into the HOF. Just my personal opinion.
@@fooman27jenkins44 Lou Whittaker was a great player, but his stats are almost identical with Omar's stats. Slightly less hits, more hrs. Identical avg and obp. Less sb, so it's close, but defense should play a factor, and that amount of gold gloves should count for something.
Curt schilling isn't a garbage human just someone with opinions the media doesn't like. Was a great teammate. I'll take that over a cheater
his career record is ot good enough and i think he started roider at age 33..
Bingo, right, exactly!!
I agree Schilling is a HOFer and should be in already. And he's also one of the top 3 to 5 pitchers in postseason history.
However, he did state he didn't want anyone to vote for him this year and he asked to be taken off the ballot. So I have no problem honoring the man's wishes.
@@DonjoSports so what if he did good in the post. andy did, many did. he was not beckett, pedro or randy on those teams in the post. his carer stunk until he got hurt and at age 34 had some good years. odd..huh.
@@albundy8192 Andy had a 3.81 ERA in the postseason. His career regular season ERA was 3.85. Petitte was not all that great in the postseason. He played on great teams.
Schilling also has a better career ERA than many pitchers and over 3,000 Ks. He also has a better BAA, OBPA, and OPSA than many HOF pitchers. Plus for the WARheads out there his WAR alone is HOF worthy enough.
Mark Buehrle, even as a White Sox fan, to me, seemed like a guy just barely on the outside looking in until I saw last year's Fangraphs article about his chances. He was a legitimate ace from 2001 to 2014 (yes, a couple poor years mixed in), 5 All Stars (first was '02, last was '14). No, he was never 'the best pitcher in the game' and his style was toolsy and not a strikeout machine, but he was effective. It might take a old-timers player vote in a few decades, but I do think he deserves to be in the Hall.
I am a Tigers fan who hates the White Sox - and you are 100% correct....
@@bruce4303 Appreciate it, big time. And as a rival, I still can't believe MLB didn't do more to promote and celebrate Miggy's historic Triple Crown year. The guy should've been a household name after that year, up there with Gretzky & Jordan.
I'd sacrifice both Bonds and Kent for Will Clark to get into the HOF. You talk about Lincecum having his career cut short due to injuries, but Clark was the first Giant to have injuries destroy his career. Watch his early career if you get the chance. He was like the next Pete Rose, but hit for more power. His fight with Ozzie Smith was legendary.
If Ortiz goes in the HoF, Sosa should be in too.
And Sheffield
@angel paige Ortiz and Sosa failed the same exact same drug test. So if one gets in, the other not getting in is just political at that point.
Mark buehrle is a hall of famer he was more about greeting week contest t ours then straight is and he won a World Series
And has a perfect game. Dudes so underrated. Hes gonna get in.
Rolen was one of the best defensive 3rd basement I've ever seen. Plus an above average bat. He should be a lock.
Thank you for the Todd Helton love 🙌
Andy has more post season wins than literally any other pitcher ever. Part of the core 4 won many rings and was a key component of one of the most dominant teams ever.....but ok?
Not a Yankees fan and he is 100% a HOFer
He also never had a losing season, very consistent and frankly with CC Sabathia only a couple of years away from his own induction the fact that Pettitte still gets dissed is sickening to watch.
When it comes to Rollins, you clearly let offensive bias cloud your judgement when it comes to defense. Rollins was a defensive wizard ( could easily make the HoF based off his defense but he was solid offensively as well)....., rivaled Caminiti defensively at 3rd during his era and any of the other defensive greats...plus he wasn't bad offensively.
It’s weird, if your a good hitter but shit defender youll get votes but vise/versa its a different story, maybe its bc hitting is more popular or recognizable idk
Rollins and ken caminiti didn’t even play in the same era…
Offense is more important and valuable than defense. It just is
If you think Rollins is a HOFer you need to reevaluate.
@@xl1355 think he meant Rolen. Rivaled Caminiti gives it away
Hey, fairly new baseball fan here. Can someone explain why Bobby Abreu isn’t a hofer? His numbers look to be on par with hof requirements. Don’t know the other outfielders of his time, so that might be why, but I’d like to know. Thank you 🙏🏾
Pujols, Hamilton, Fielder, Howard were The Sluggers of early 2000s
Míddle to late 2000’s. Early 2000s is big papi, manny, Arod and those guys
In terms of Bonds, I look at it as While he very well took steroids, he was never suspended for it and it still takes serious skill to put up those number, I get Roids help but you still need the skill
PED can't help you hit a ball coming at you 90 plus . Ped helps you hit the ball further. So I agree Bonds should be in. He never failed a test, never got suspended. Only thing against Bonds is others words. You can look at pictures and make that decision also. But no real proof. Just thoughts and words is keeping Bonds out.
Bruh wtf 6 steroid users (really telling people cheating is fine as long as you’re elite)
Do you realize that steroid users saved the league?
Number 1, Omar was a number 2 hitter for his time in Cleveland lol that’s where he spent most of his career
if you take out beltre, rolen could be considered the best third baseman since schmidt. I think he'd have better stats than Chipper if he averaged 150-155 games instead of 120, they'd at least be close. 300 HRs at third base with a 70 WAR is really good especially with 7 all stars and 8 gold gloves. I say he's better than Chipper if fully healthy btw bc he had an amazing glove and an amazing bat. Chipper was just the bat, and I think he could've been a DH in the AL.
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As a Reds fan, I really hope Scott Rolen gets in as a Cardinal
I don't know if Beltre is a HOFer though. I am in the camp of Rolen getting in though. He's just TOO good to be left out. And, he had all those years, and you just don't hear anything about him being bad
Nobody that uses performing enhancing drugs or substances deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.
i 100% respect anything you say now after the words i heard you say about my man roger clemens. thats real respect for baseball. you hate him but still see the talent. thats how i am. im a yankees fan but do i hate the redsox? no. i grew up in MA close to both foxboro stadium and not too far away from fenway and went to both atleast once a summer but im a born yankees fan. and also the truth about the greatest player of all time. Barry Bonds numbers BARELY changed when he elidgely started juicing. he was already cranking HR's and only difference afterwards is that he wasnt stealing 40+ bases anymore. But he didnt need to when he was hitting the MLB career record amount of HR's. Fans want to see them fly no matter who is batting! They both NEED to be in the HOF. And so does Pete Rose because of hitting stats! Stats dont lie..
It’s really tough to say that Scott Rolen isn’t a hall of famer. I kinda understand what you’re saying because when watching rolen play he never jumped out to me as one of the best players of all time. But when really looking at his career, he definitely belongs in.
You make the point, several times when talking about outfielders, like Abreu, Hunter, etc., that they have numbers but weren’t the best outfielders of their generation and that hurts them.
And jeff Kent. He gets a mention and consideration ONLY because he played second base. He was a terrible fielder though. His bat played and he could’ve been hidden in the outfield or something and if he was an outfielder, he wouldn’t get a second look. He’s be a poor fielder outfielder with good, but not great, numbers.
The point is, position is extremely relevant to this discussion. No catchers would be in the hall if it was based on offense alone. Corner Outfielders and first basemen NEED to hit extraordinarily well to make the cut. Third base is not that way and is a premier defensive position. Look what happens when JD Davis is your everyday third baseman. He had an ops of 1.000 but got replaced by Villar because his defense was just unplayable.
Well Rolen was easily THE best third basemen of his generation and was even the best defensive third basemen well into his late 30s. He was top 2 or 3 offensively for 3B over his career and was the best defensive 3B. And he had a long career. This wasn’t a short prime guy like David Wright or a guy who had to move off of third like Longoria and Zimmerman.
Buster Posey 2027! Hall of Famer his first year, ALL THE WAY
I know people will probably say I'm just bias and maybe so but I think Andy should get in. His numbers are ok but what puts him over the top for me is his individual postseason success as well as being a major cog in the Yankees machine
Yea generally speaking I don't think middle of the rotation guys should be in, but he was just so consistent and such a big part of some of the best teams of his era. And he would have been a top of the rotation guy if he wasn't surrounded by so many superstars through most of his career. I think he should be in too, but he is kind of on the bubble.
Jeff Kent was also on Survivor so put him in
Omar absolutely a Hall of Famer. 2,877 Hits! More games played at shortstop than ANYBODY....EVER! (2,709). 11 Gold Gloves! He played for 24 seasons over 4 decades! Was the model Number 2 hitter! he did not bat ninth. He batted bewteen Lofton and Baerga/ Alomar was the ultimate compliment to the lineup. could bunt, steal get hits. Was far from a garbage person or teammate.
Then, your next take is ...Billy Wagner should be in the hall????? Omar's impact (or really most position players) on baseball game is far far far greater than any reliever, Wagner included. 56 games played on average per season for Wagner, compared to vizquel's 123 per year.
Truthfully, I believe Pete Rose should be In the Hall of Fame. They need to look at this. As time has went on there are players that has done worst than Rose and is on the ballot and there are players in the Hall that are connected to PED . I'm willing to bet that Rose isn't the only player /Manager to gamble on any sports. Not just baseball. These days gambling isn't looked at as it was back in the 80s.
Completely agree with your voting
If Manny gets in he either goes in as a White Sock or a Ray. Book it.
Manny Ramirez???
No. He will either go in as an Indian of as a Red Sock.
@@Jacobthekid28 Red Sox if he enters.
@@jmsg_PR Or potentially the Indians.
@@Jacobthekid28 I personally think Red Sox because that’s where he was playing superb and won 2 rings with that team. And sadly its now Guardians.
I feel like for Lincecum if he hasn't announced his retirement yet then he should be in the HOF in like 5 years. I think I saw something that said he's considered returning to MLB or that might've been another player like Puig. For Lincecum he's a great pitcher and should be in the HOF in the next 5-8 years
Bro he had 2 good years. Ofc he doesn’t deserve to be a hall of famer.
He had three masterful years, two good ones, the rest bad due to injuries...not long enough time to be considered HOF-worthy
I need 7-8 years of elite play to be a hall of famer thats all i need
I am one of the biggest Big Time Timmy Jim fans you'll find but I have to say, despite him having what I consider to be possibly the best 3 years of any pitcher ever 07-10, his body breaking down just cut his career too short. Would love to see him in cooperstown, but it would be a stretch :(
I highly disagree, he had a very short career and wasn’t dominant for very long. If he pitched like a Cy Young for at least 8 years maybe.
My ballot includes 9 “no-doubters” and 1 somewhat questionable vote but I’ll explain
*No-Doubters*
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Todd Helton(Fight me lol)
Andruw Jones
David Ortiz
Alex Rodriguez
Curt Schilling
Billy Wagner
Jeff Kent
*Questionable vote*
Torii Hunter
The reason I picked Torii Hunter is because there are comparable players that either should be in, will get in, or are in. Players like this include Dale Murphy, Andre Dawson, Jim Edmonds. People always fight for andruw Jones and I’m one of them because I’m a braves fan, but torii hunter is a guy that should get talked about a lot more.
Torii Hunter stats
2452 Hits
353 Home Runs
.277 Average
.793 Ops
50.7 bWAR
1391 RBI
But these numbers are not where you’ll be convinced. The guy won 9 straight gold gloves. People call Andruw Jones the greatest defensive center fielder for his 10 straight. If you wanna call Andruw number one then Torii Hunter and Jim Edmonds are 2 and 3. Come on dude.
As much as I love Torii Hunter, he isnt deserving of a borderline vote over Scott Rolen, who basically was a better Torii Hunter at 3B
Ryan Howard should absolutely be in the Hall of Fame. He was undoubtable the best player for 3 years, fantastic for 2 other years and then got injured. Even after he got injured he came back and was still really good. He has to be.
Too short a prime.
something I dont hear alot of talk about but is important to the HoF voters is Defense!! they look at gold gloves and errors also not just offensive numbers. If they did more DH's would be in HoF
The most impressive thing about Wagner is that he taught himself how to pitch with his non dominant arm... And threw 100 MPH with it! That's honestly movie material!
Dude, I am 100% in the foxhole with you in the war for Billy Wagner.
Andy Pettitte is a hall of famer 5 World Series rings and is one of the greatest playoff pitchers ever.
Barry bonds cheated. That’s why his stats were so good and had the most home runs. Hank Aaron is the REAL home run king! ✊
Check the record books, it doesn’t say Hank Aaron does it? The real HR king is Bonds so get over it. He’s a HOF in every definition of the term
100% agreed. Fuck Barry Bonds.
@@jakkstarr no, I won’t get over it, and Bonds has absolutely no business being in the Hall of Fame at all, period.
Good job. I do think Rolen and Schilling will get in as well.
David Ortiz, and Andrew Jones will get in. I hope the veterans make Don Mattingly, Steve Garvey, Bobby Grich and Bill Freehan a 10 time all star. I think Rafael Palmiero the only player who has 3000 hits and 500 Home Runs should bet in.
Pete Rose should be in the hall of
Fame
Hell yeah on Billy Wagner!!
This guy is awsome
Here's something you have to ask yourself. Is Nolan Arenado a future Hall of Famer? If so, then how can you say that Scott Rolen isn't? The two are very similar both at the plate and in the field. And this is coming from a Cardinal fan who has watched, and greatly enjoyed watching both guys play.
Arenado's offensive numbers are far better, at least through this point in his career. Rolen's were great, and defensively they're pretty comparable. But Nolan has put up some consistently ridiculous numbers.
@@markzuckergecko621 I know people are tired of "Oh he played in Coors field" but yeah he played in Coors field. Larry Walker is in the hall because he hit great away from Coors as well. IF Arenado puts up some ridiculous seasons in St. Louis he'll be in the hall.
@@wesleyy2502 his road numbers are pretty good too though.
This is a great comparison
Both are very similar in terms of stats even tho arenado has the coors effect
And defensively they are both the best in their position during the times they played or in arendao’s case right now
Yes, you are right Rolen is not the pop up guy that comes to mind at first, but a solid career and the statistics endorse him as a Hall of Fame. Just a question: Why is not Billy Wagner in the Hall of Fame? Last year was ideal for his induction.
I’m really curious to see what they do with the Steroid era guys. If they let one in they have to let them all in, and I’m not sure the voters will vote for steroid users if they won’t vote for people with different political opinions.
Schilling should have already been in the HOF. Writers not voting for him due to political differences are a joke and are part of the reason the voting process is sometimes considered a joke.
I agree with your take on the steroids guys. If one gets in then all the other ones with HOF numbers get in. Which means they must find a way to put McGwire and Palmeiro in as well.
Who is more HOF worthy?
Player A: 58.6 bWAR, 2408 Hits, .344 OBP, 124 wRC+, 234 SB (connected to PEDs)
Player B: 60.1 bWAR, 2470 Hits, .394 OBP, 129 wRC+, 400 SB (no ties to PEDs)
Video idea: your top 15 or top 20 greatest players of all time
how dare you not vote for Scott rolen
Vizquel is a hall of famer. The voters need to know that it’s not if you have 600 career homeruns. Just look at the player and his stat line. If he is a good player and his stat line is good than he should be in. Also stop not putting people in because of what he did with his actual life. That is not about baseball at all. I mean wasn’t ty cobb in the KKK.
Thanks for the Andruw love.
Will any of the 2017 Astros get in the hof
Personally. I think Jose Altuve will eventually get in. Maybe he’ll wait like 5 to 8 years, but I think he’s a hall of famer. Despite the trash can controversy
Imagine if the White Sox never trade Sosa and have him and Thomas in the same line-up. I also feel that if Paul Konerko stayed on the ballot he would have recieved more votes because he is borderline and should not have fell off after 1 year on the ballot.
Konerko fell off simply because there are too many players with ties to steroids still on the ballot. Same reason Miguel Tejada was off the ballot after 1 year.
and if I had 2 post season games that's needed wins and could start a lefty and a righty, it would be Pettitte and Schilling.
Hey man. Lifelong Phillies fan here. Don't hold it against me (well don't hold it against me too much, lol). Love your take on Rolen. However, if you had to choose one or the other, do you agree Abreu is the more worthy?
Yes I'm a yankees fan. But I do think that Mark texiera is a Hall of famer. He was so good and consistent for his whole career. Definitely top 20 1b of all time. And very underrated. I think he won't get in this year but within 3 more years he will be.
I'm a Yankees fan also, Teixeira should never be in before McGriff. Voters are tough on 1B. Those numbers better be off the charts. only 1B to get in over past 40 years are Eddie Murray, Frank Thomas, Jim Thome, and down the road Pujols and Cabrera. Teixeira has half the accolades of any of those guys.
@@mikeshoe74 that's just the unfortunate truth.
Apparently Marc thinks just because Schilling has a different political opinion “he’s a bad person”
If you think hes a bad guy because of his politics then youre wrong but yeah hes definitely an a**hole. But so is arod bonds and clemens.
@@jets2492 how else is he a bad person lmao… clown
Right, exactly!!
Elston Howard, Thurman Munson and Graig Nettles should be in the HOF!!!!!!
Omar Vizquel is 100% a Hall of Famer
Is he first ballot? No
Would he get my vote here if I had only 10 to pick from this list? Probably Not
But is he a Hall of Famer? YES
A great comparison is Vizquel & Ozzie Smith. Yes, the Wizard of Oz is the better SS of the 2 BUT Omar leads him in every batting statistic except SBs… has 11 GGs while Ozzie has 13.. point is, they are very very close & Ozzie is a Hall of Famer.. therefore, Vizquel should be one too
Vizquel played like 5 more years than Smith and Smith was superior defensively. Smith's war is 67 while Vizquel's is 45. imo Vizquel is not a hof player.
@@xxxgogosox82xx So i went to Vizquel stats and removed the final 5 years of his career (2008-2012)...So from 1989 to 2007... Vizquel STILL leads Ozzie in ALL batting statistics except SBs (Leads Ozzie even in Triple-Slash Line). The WAR stat just proves what I said before that Ozzie is the better SS but Vizquel is a HOFer in my book. Look up his defensive highlights, he's a 11x Gold Glove Winner for a reason.
@@ArlisMJ1 Vizquel's fielding is overrated imo. His range was quite average. And while he has a high fielding %, that is prone to bias the official scorer for the game will decide if a play is an error or not. My feeling if your gonna be as bad of a hitter as Vizquel was, and he was a bad hitter, you better be elite defensively and i don't think he was. Again, 45 war in 24 seasons. only 2 all star games, no top 10 finishes in mvp. not a hof player imo
I always wondered what Jeff Kent would've hit like if Bonds wasn't next to him in the lineup
Right - if Kent gets in - Bonds must get in too
I wonder if he is punished for hitting in front of Barry