Brad, If you are having surface finish issues try using tool steel turning bits. Typically you can sharpen them to a finer edge and that should assist in final finish outcome. I have one of these spin indexers too. I'm going to be giving it the "Brad" treatment in the near future. Thanks for the great video. Regards, Eric
Hey Brad....good job....being you went from an aluminum lock bolt to steel, you had better put on a brass tip to keep from marring up the spindle. Regarding your comment on the inadequate speed for the carbide cutters, you mentioned a couple of weeks ago about getting a higher hp motor....do yourself a favor, and go to 3 phase...I run my 3 phase mill at 80 to 90 hz all the time.....you'll get the speed you desire. Good luck, Jim
Jim Liechty Jim - I'm going to make the shoe. At the time of making the first video, I REALLY thought people would not really be interested in it, so I kept it short and crossed my fingers. It's really been popular and I've since went back to do a more thorough job in getting it dialed in and precision ground. For the speeds, I've since found that cutting diameters less than 1", the RPMS aren't there and the finish is not so hot. However, with stuff like 2" and up, the diameters achieve the higher cutting speeds and my finish is like a mirror - pretty impressive. I am getting a new 3ph motor for sure. But I can't run the spindle more than the 1000rpm mark. My bronze bearings aren't designed for the extra speed, unfortunately.
Brad, I was toying with the idea of adding a two speed motor to my small bore 13, but, after reading SB caution about damaging the spindle bearings at the high speed, changed my mind. My bearings are the machined into the cast body of the head, and only have one shot at repairing them. For you it would work just fine, and a bonus, an electric brake.
Rexx Rexx - I'm right there with ya man. Mine too - even though it's a big bore, will be damaged by (higher) speed motors. My motor cap is 1,735 motor speed and a max of around 1,000 spindle RPMS. The key to getting faster speeds (for using carbide, for example) is to use machine bigger diameters. For smaller diameter work, gotta keep the HSS close by.
I have the same "cost effective" 5C Collet Spin Fixture. Love the mod your did on yours. One thing I was surprised that you did not do was to change out the set screws on the collet tightening crank. The set screws that come with the unit are very short. I changed them out to longer ones so that all the threads in the crank handle were engaged, not just the last 2-3 threads.
In the first video when you first mentioned the slip and not being able to make it I was thinking just drill it out and thread it with something new. Glad I wasn't alone in that thinking.
Hey Brad. Nice work. I couldn't understand why you were being so fussy with the knurling until I saw the finished product. Now I know. Very nice. Good fit on the screw, too. I'm with Jim Liechty. You need a brass tip on that to keep from damaging your main shaft. I will do that when I repair my dividing head. Regarding finish turning, Xynudu (I'll check my spelling on that) posted a video about a shear tool for finishing a month or two ago. I thought you'd find that useful. I'll post the link to it if I can find it quickly. Really, really nice work. Thanks John
Brad, the hole in the knurled knob is for the pin and to drip OIL into tolub the two surfaces.Think of the spindle bearing on the South Bend. Regards, Eric
nice work..... made one of these from an old bearing/cushion block. They are handy gizmo’s ... I made several plates (on the dividing head) for it, and I can recommend that to anyone who has one of these.. Paddy
Nice improvements and as you asked for comments:- Your index plate appears to be missing the locating pin, you need a positive lock to be able to tighten the collet adequately. On mine I made slots where you put holes, makes it slightly quicker to fit to the table and allows you to set it at an angle if the job calls for it. With your locking screw, a curve ended insert will save scaring the shaft and might give a better grip, Personally if i were rethreading I would have used a much finer pitch thread for more grip. If you make a new ring for the back end, make it many times longer. The original is far to narrow for a reliable end float free fit as it moves under working loads. It is amazing how useful these indexers are, as I often need to make custom bolt heads I would be lost without mine. They are so much better than collet blocks. ATB c
Chris Stephens Chris - the locating pin is inside the spindle for locking the collet in place. On my South Bend, however, it's so small and worn away, I'll need to make another one. Maybe some slots (in place of holes) would be better - that's a great idea! The locking screw might be re-made entirely out of brass or I'll just make a brass shoe. The threading is fine though. It locks super tight. And yeah, I agree that these spindexers are really useful and handy.
Chris Stephens Oh ok - yeah, there isn't any. There isn't even any room for me to drill some screw holes. The Suburban Tool model, has 3 screws that bolt the plate to the spindle.
My cheapy indexer has one radial pin which fits in a notch in the plate. It is a useful thing to have as it allows you to use the index pin to lock firmly the spindle to tighten the collet. When indexing there is nothing worse than the work turning in the collet, been there done that etc. One of those things that, if you have hair, would cause you to pull it out. :>(
I've seen a lot of discontent in the remarks, it's your tool you fix it how you want,even though I agree on the comment on why the locking screw was soft, the holes on the base are necessary for locking it to the mill table, ,My thoughts on the hole in the locking screw is it's an oil hole,but storing your pin works well also,As for centering the hole with a hardened pin,get over it it's done every day and done constantly in my shop
It is Grease its 80 weight gear lube! You can buy it at anywhere I can't remember the brand name but it's in the tall skinny bottle you get a quart of it for about $6
cerberus Thanks Cerb. If anyone has the machines that I have, I'd absolutely suggest they do it. I've been having a lot of fun doing it and learning a lot while doing so.
Just bought an indexer also. I know I will have to make some mods to mine also, however the screw on mine fits very well and seems to be made of a decent material. BTW nice job on the screw.
Since you don't have the RPM for Carbide inserts, why not use HSS all the time. It's inexpensive and gives you a better finish most of the time if you dion't have the speed and rigidity to fully take advantage. Easy to sharpen and form to shape (s).
It looks like the oil dauber is missing on your tailstock. My 1978 SBL 13 doesn't even have a place for an oil dauber. Mr Pete made a video on how to make them.
1970chevelle396 Thats (kind of) a misconception, LOL. Let me explain - In theory it (IS) missing, but in laters years, South Bend delivered their lathes - from the factory - without daubers in the tail. However, I'm a purist, so it's on my to-do list to make a nice brass one.
I think the hole is for a piece of Delrin or similar pin with a head to hold the shaft with out making a mark. Of course the Chinese are not going to supply that type of nice ect. ect. ect.
Great video. I just have one question. What is the final minimum diameter of the 9/16 inch bolt that you made and knurled. Thanks for another great video, I learn something each time..... Ken .....Marina CA
32 min in and I hope you just realized the spindexer wont work with the pin in your oil port. and there was a reason for the soft metal lock down thumb screw. Not to mention a keyway on the base and hold down straps, would make for a much faster set up.js.
david rule - Wow, thank you for such a helpful comment. I would never have known to take the lock pin out when using it. I was about to set the degrees and just “hope” it would stay because well, I wanted to store my pin in the oil hole 🙄 And while we’re at it, why on earth would I oil the spindle tube through the lock-screw hole, when I can simply Apply the oil to the tube itself - every (well “almost everyone”) knows that the tube pulls in and out. Thanks for watching 😉
Morris Gallo Yeah, I saw that series. Real cool. I won't do that to mine, since I have a dividing head that is feeling unloved at the moment. Gotta get that into action soon.
Hi Ken, Nice work on the mods. At 7:45 you mentioned wanting better RPM to get a nicer finish. Have you considered using tool steel bits versus the carbide? You can "generally" sharpen the TS bits to a finer edge than the carbide. Best wishes, Eric
esoomreltna Hi Eric - oh yeah, I love my HSS bits. Lately I've been experimenting with carbide inserts, really more for hogging the bigger diameters down. Thanks for the kind words and viewership, I appreciate that ;)
Hi Brad, Came out good, much better than the original... Nicely executed... ;-) Can you tell me if the Eagle Rock knurling tool' body is made of any special alloy, and if it is hardened.... I would need to know to undergo in a near future a WIYB-TMC project. Pierre
pierre beaudry Also, concerning lathe tool holders, if you use CXA or BXA imports are a decent choice for the price, just be ready to change the set screws as the ones supplied are pretty shitty. I've got about 14 CA blocks and would easily use another 10... Never ends....! lol
Thanks for this video! I am tempted to buy one after seeing this. One question though: Is there anything to stop the index wheel from spinning other than the lockring? It seems to me that a keyway might be good.
I second this concern. I can certainly see this thing moving while doing machine work on it, but maybe the index ring is more to position things and not to "hold" things in place?
Speeds and Feeds, I think you are turing the tools too fast. CS X 4 divided by the diameter of the part if turning, and the diameter of the tool if milling. You'll find your tools last laonger if you do.
david rule - sticking a hardened gauge into a chuck in order to quickly locate a center hole is something many people do. I hardly doubt a soft cast iron hole Will damage a HARDENED pin. Just saying...
david rule - I know very well what thread wires are and I use them in my business. However, to bust them out for a quick (lock down) screw is ridiculous- even you should know that.
Brad,
If you are having surface finish issues try using tool steel turning bits. Typically you can sharpen them to a finer edge and that should assist in final finish outcome.
I have one of these spin indexers too. I'm going to be giving it the "Brad" treatment in the near future. Thanks for the great video.
Regards,
Eric
Hey Brad....good job....being you went from an aluminum lock bolt to steel, you had better put on a brass tip to keep from marring up the spindle. Regarding your comment on the inadequate speed for the carbide cutters, you mentioned a couple of weeks ago about getting a higher hp motor....do yourself a favor, and go to 3 phase...I run my 3 phase mill at 80 to 90 hz all the time.....you'll get the speed you desire. Good luck, Jim
Jim Liechty Jim - I'm going to make the shoe. At the time of making the first video, I REALLY thought people would not really be interested in it, so I kept it short and crossed my fingers. It's really been popular and I've since went back to do a more thorough job in getting it dialed in and precision ground.
For the speeds, I've since found that cutting diameters less than 1", the RPMS aren't there and the finish is not so hot. However, with stuff like 2" and up, the diameters achieve the higher cutting speeds and my finish is like a mirror - pretty impressive. I am getting a new 3ph motor for sure. But I can't run the spindle more than the 1000rpm mark. My bronze bearings aren't designed for the extra speed, unfortunately.
Brad, I was toying with the idea of adding a two speed motor to my small bore 13, but, after reading SB caution about damaging the spindle bearings at the high speed, changed my mind. My bearings are the machined into the cast body of the head, and only have one shot at repairing them. For you it would work just fine, and a bonus, an electric brake.
Rexx Rexx - I'm right there with ya man. Mine too - even though it's a big bore, will be damaged by (higher) speed motors. My motor cap is 1,735 motor speed and a max of around 1,000 spindle RPMS. The key to getting faster speeds (for using carbide, for example) is to use machine bigger diameters. For smaller diameter work, gotta keep the HSS close by.
Would prefer a big bore geared head, but, I make do.
I have the same "cost effective" 5C Collet Spin Fixture. Love the mod your did on yours. One thing I was surprised that you did not do was to change out the set screws on the collet tightening crank. The set screws that come with the unit are very short. I changed them out to longer ones so that all the threads in the crank handle were engaged, not just the last 2-3 threads.
In the first video when you first mentioned the slip and not being able to make it I was thinking just drill it out and thread it with something new. Glad I wasn't alone in that thinking.
Mike Dittman Yup, lots of people were commenting for me to drill-bigger and re-tap. I guess you can say, I made a cliff-hanger video, haha.
I would bet the hole in the locking screw is for oiling the spindle.
Though storing the index pin there looks like a handy idea.
Thanks for the video!
I am adding a brass or other soft material to the bottom of the locking screw to prevent galling of the spindle shaft.
Hey Brad. Nice work.
I couldn't understand why you were being so fussy with the knurling until I saw the finished product. Now I know. Very nice. Good fit on the screw, too.
I'm with Jim Liechty. You need a brass tip on that to keep from damaging your main shaft. I will do that when I repair my dividing head.
Regarding finish turning, Xynudu (I'll check my spelling on that) posted a video about a shear tool for finishing a month or two ago. I thought you'd find that useful. I'll post the link to it if I can find it quickly.
Really, really nice work.
Thanks
John
John Bazaar I used the shearing tool on my "machining an R8 arbor" video.
John Bazaar Thanks John - yeah, it's on the list. Possibly a whole new screw made from brass.
Brad, the hole in the knurled knob is for the pin and to drip OIL into tolub the two surfaces.Think of the spindle bearing on the South Bend.
Regards,
Eric
nice work..... made one of these from an old bearing/cushion block. They are handy gizmo’s ...
I made several plates (on the dividing head) for it, and I can recommend that to anyone who has one of these..
Paddy
I installed a pin on the spindle to key with a machined notch on the degree wheel to prevent a spin slip. The through hole on the screw is for oil.
Nice improvements and as you asked for comments:-
Your index plate appears to be missing the locating pin, you need a positive lock to be able to tighten the collet adequately.
On mine I made slots where you put holes, makes it slightly quicker to fit to the table and allows you to set it at an angle if the job calls for it.
With your locking screw, a curve ended insert will save scaring the shaft and might give a better grip, Personally if i were rethreading I would have used a much finer pitch thread for more grip.
If you make a new ring for the back end, make it many times longer. The original is far to narrow for a reliable end float free fit as it moves under working loads.
It is amazing how useful these indexers are, as I often need to make custom bolt heads I would be lost without mine. They are so much better than collet blocks.
ATB
c
Chris Stephens Chris - the locating pin is inside the spindle for locking the collet in place. On my South Bend, however, it's so small and worn away, I'll need to make another one. Maybe some slots (in place of holes) would be better - that's a great idea! The locking screw might be re-made entirely out of brass or I'll just make a brass shoe. The threading is fine though. It locks super tight. And yeah, I agree that these spindexers are really useful and handy.
The locating pin I was thinking of locks the index ring to the collet holding spindle. ab
Chris Stephens Oh ok - yeah, there isn't any. There isn't even any room for me to drill some screw holes. The Suburban Tool model, has 3 screws that bolt the plate to the spindle.
My cheapy indexer has one radial pin which fits in a notch in the plate. It is a useful thing to have as it allows you to use the index pin to lock firmly the spindle to tighten the collet. When indexing there is nothing worse than the work turning in the collet, been there done that etc. One of those things that, if you have hair, would cause you to pull it out. :>(
I'm guessing you haven't been machining very long when you made this (not that im very good or anything).....but the end result turned out good
I've seen a lot of discontent in the remarks, it's your tool you fix it how you want,even though I agree on the comment on why the locking screw was soft, the holes on the base are necessary for locking it to the mill table, ,My thoughts on the hole in the locking screw is it's an oil hole,but storing your pin works well also,As for centering the hole with a hardened pin,get over it it's done every day and done constantly in my shop
It is Grease its 80 weight gear lube! You can buy it at anywhere I can't remember the brand name but it's in the tall skinny bottle you get a quart of it for about $6
Brad,
There's nothing like a nice piece of brass !!
fdegeorge2000 I might. Either that or a brass shoe.
Your new parts were very nicely made. If I come up with a sloppy spindexer I just may follow your example. Thanks for the video.
cerberus Thanks Cerb. If anyone has the machines that I have, I'd absolutely suggest they do it. I've been having a lot of fun doing it and learning a lot while doing so.
very nice restoration of your lathe!
Gilles Bujold Thanks Gilles.
...lots of mods out there.....simple is best, nice work!
Rick L Thanks Rick. She's comining along slowly.
Good easy fix makes it into a more procise tool good job
Colin Samms Thanks Colin.
Just bought an indexer also. I know I will have to make some mods to mine also, however the screw on mine fits very well and seems to be made of a decent material. BTW nice job on the screw.
William Hardin Thanks William!
Absolutely beautiful lathe.
Since you don't have the RPM for Carbide inserts, why not use HSS all the time. It's inexpensive and gives you a better finish most of the time if you dion't have the speed and rigidity to fully take advantage. Easy to sharpen and form to shape (s).
It looks like the oil dauber is missing on your tailstock. My 1978 SBL 13 doesn't even have a place for an oil dauber. Mr Pete made a video on how to make them.
1970chevelle396 Thats (kind of) a misconception, LOL. Let me explain - In theory it (IS) missing, but in laters years, South Bend delivered their lathes - from the factory - without daubers in the tail. However, I'm a purist, so it's on my to-do list to make a nice brass one.
Sure took a cheap tool and made wonders .. Great work !!
ShawnMrFixit Lee Thanks - but the fat-lady hasn't yet sung her song. Still more work to do, lol.
nice work Brad,
Jim
Love that old lathe!
Nice work
I think the hole is for a piece of Delrin or similar pin with a head to hold the shaft with out making a mark. Of course the Chinese are not going to supply that type of nice ect. ect. ect.
Enjoyed, nice work, good vid production
outsidescrewball Thanks Chuck ;)
Dude those are some gnarly knurls!
warrantyvoid100 Oh yeah, gnarly for sure ;)
Great video. I just have one question. What is the final minimum diameter of the 9/16 inch bolt that you made and knurled. Thanks for another great video, I learn something each time..... Ken .....Marina CA
Kenneth Bartlett Ken - I'm not sure. The minimum dia. was cut when I single-pointed, but I never kept track, since I had a test-nut.
Hey Brad,
Nice upgrades to the indexer!
Ray
Ray Caniglia Thanks my PA brother, LOL. Yeah, still more work to do as we see in the latest video ;)
32 min in and I hope you just realized the spindexer wont work with the pin in your oil port. and there was a reason for the soft metal lock down thumb screw. Not to mention a keyway on the base and hold down straps, would make for a much faster set up.js.
david rule - Wow, thank you for such a helpful comment. I would never have known to take the lock pin out when using it. I was about to set the degrees and just “hope” it would stay because well, I wanted to store my pin in the oil hole 🙄 And while we’re at it, why on earth would I oil the spindle tube through the lock-screw hole, when I can simply
Apply the oil to the tube itself - every (well “almost everyone”) knows that the tube pulls in and out. Thanks for watching 😉
Nice video. To increase the functionality of your spindexer do a search on Lipton's channel, he has a really great modification.
Morris Gallo Yeah, I saw that series. Real cool. I won't do that to mine, since I have a dividing head that is feeling unloved at the moment. Gotta get that into action soon.
Enjoyed this video, thanks Brad.
Awesome - glad you liked it.
nice video,Brad thanks for sharing.
Hi Ken, Nice work on the mods. At 7:45 you mentioned wanting better RPM to get a nicer finish. Have you considered using tool steel bits versus the carbide? You can "generally" sharpen the TS bits to a finer edge than the carbide.
Best wishes,
Eric
esoomreltna Hi Eric - oh yeah, I love my HSS bits. Lately I've been experimenting with carbide inserts, really more for hogging the bigger diameters down. Thanks for the kind words and viewership, I appreciate that ;)
Good job Brad, I like your clean lathe it looks new😃😃
Excellent video Brad!!
ShadeTree Machinist Thanks!
I believe the hole in that bolt may be for oil.
Hi Brad,
Came out good, much better than the original... Nicely executed... ;-)
Can you tell me if the Eagle Rock knurling tool' body is made of any special alloy, and if it is hardened.... I would need to know to undergo in a near future a WIYB-TMC project.
Pierre
pierre beaudry Also, concerning lathe tool holders, if you use CXA or BXA imports are a decent choice for the price, just be ready to change the set screws as the ones supplied are pretty shitty. I've got about 14 CA blocks and would easily use another 10... Never ends....! lol
pierre beaudry Hi Pierre - I'm not sure of the alloy, but I do believe it's hardened. I can find out for sure though.
That would be great, I'll wait for your response...
nice work Brad how was those apple pies MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH !!!
gizzo123us HAHA. I took that video down since it was like a magnet for "thumbs-down".
Dang, thats a nice lathe@!!
The hole is for oil. what's up with the corse thread and why the steadt rest? just run the part closer to the chuck. js
david rule the method I turned the piece is bizarre - I’ll give you that and even I wondering WTF I was doing.
Thanks for this video! I am tempted to buy one after seeing this. One question though: Is there anything to stop the index wheel from spinning other than the lockring? It seems to me that a keyway might be good.
I second this concern. I can certainly see this thing moving while doing machine work on it, but maybe the index ring is more to position things and not to "hold" things in place?
Two thumbs up Dude!
What is the maximum RPM on your lathe?
Thanks for videos,
n.
nezir skorupan ~1,000. Bronze bearings are the one that put that limit.
Nice work..
How did you come up with that knurling chart? I'm building a clamp style knurling tool now and that would be very handy.
There is a RUclipsr called Ghostses. His video shows all the math behind it.
Thanks for the info. I subscribed to his channel after you pointed to him. Good stuff there.
nice work, thanks for the video
***** Thank You for watching ;)
How did you come up with your Knurling chart ? Just subscribed and apologize if this question has been asked before. Joe A.
+Joe Andrews Hi Joe - in the video, I mention another RUclipsr called "Ghostes". He has it on his video.
Good job, thank you.
great job.
Robert Kutz Thanks Rob.
ur lathe is so clean i use to much oil
Speeds and Feeds, I think you are turing the tools too fast. CS X 4 divided by the diameter of the part if turning, and the diameter of the tool if milling. You'll find your tools last laonger if you do.
You could have just dropped your knee to put that drill bit and you had to drop it anyway LOL
I've never seen anyone use a mike that way to measure a shaft.....perhaps you are left handed or some other reason.
HI brad,
Enjoying your Mod Video. You need Tool Holders? check Randy Richards series on making them.
David Clements Yeah, I may just have to make some.
You didn't go deep enough with your damn tap you can see that from watching
please tell me you didn't just put a pin guage in a drill chuck. Mr Johansson just turned over in his grave.js
david rule - sticking a hardened gauge into a chuck in order to quickly locate a center hole is something many people do. I hardly doubt a soft cast iron hole
Will damage a HARDENED pin. Just saying...
25 min in and we all, well, almost everybody knows why the threads are a tight fit. Have you ever heard of thread wires? or a 60% thread.js
david rule - I know very well what thread wires are and I use them in my business. However, to bust them out for a quick (lock down) screw is ridiculous- even you should know that.
@@BasementShopGuy david rule shit happens get over it
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