Hopefully, there will be a brick pi with raspberry pi solution soon for the new spike prime motors/sensors. It would basically mean a much more advanced hub, even more advanced than the EV3.
I think that school-based FLL Teams will continue to use the EV3, because their after-school budgets are stretched thin. I still see an occasional team using NXT, because they cannot afford to upgrade.
That is a fair point! Many schools will continue to use the equipment they have already. That's how I ended up competing using an NXT robot after the EV3 transition in 2013.
you could still program ev3 with python, and as a matter of fact, i like it better because (from what i've seen) you can't return an RGB value from a color sensor with spike prime. you can only get one of 7 strings containing the name of a color, like "blue", or "red" but this was not the case for ev3
My team switched over last season. My teams typically use 4 motors and 2 light sensors, so the other sensors can't be used with the spike prime. Also, we don't see a way to use a global variable which can be used across programs. Another bummer. But, we do like the form factor so will continue to use the system.
The main point why we won't switch to Spike Prime is the lack of a useable screen. We use the Screen on the Ev3 for basically everything like debugging, calibration or programming runs (finding the amount of degrees a tool has to move etc.). Yes, you could view that data on your computer by connecting Spike Prime via Bluetooth, but having Bluetooth/Wifi enabled makes the Spike Prime Brick, which already has less computing power than the Ev3, run even slower. Also the (while smaller) motors have less power/torque.
Yes after watching your earlier Robot Inventor videos we decided to make the change a few months ago. Thanks for the recent videos which have confirmed that this was the right decision for our team
FIRST has not and is not discontinuing use of the EV3 for FIRST LEGO League. Please re-read the first bullet point. "In Tennessee you will be able to continue using the EV3, NXT, and RCX Bricks for FLL events" This is true for FIRST LEGO League everywhere and will not change in 2022! The confusion stems from the third bullet point, where Tennessee refers to LEGO Education offering season specific "Guided missions" in the SPIKE prime app. The integrated lessons are very helpful for new teams but not required.
As you mention my teams have about a dozen ev3 kits and a software suite developed of my blocks which can be taught easily. Ultimately labview was limited, very buggy, especially with larger files. My teams ran their mat from within a graphical scheduler activating programs from a colour coded wand( hey, they love Harry Potter). It worked fab most....of the time but when it bugged out it a nightmare
I have spike prime, but now after using it for two years I am switching back to ev3, the liner code has more control and more options than the block based.
My team is down because of COVID, but when we are able to field a team again, we will use Spike. I like how compact the builds can be and the kids seem to prefer working with them. Within two years, I hope to have my teams coding in python.
Sorry to hear that COVID has put your team on hiatus, but I am glad you are planning a strong return! I think that encouraging Python use will be greatly beneficial to your team members, especially in the long term.
Only 6 ports are a step backwards. A huge step backwards. For FLL this hub is usable. For WRO Seniors........ But the new Software is cool, as long you don't want to debug time critical operations /values via BT...
When watching my daughter's FLL tournaments, I noticed that most teams would have a several individual programs loaded on their EV3 brick and use the menu to select and run them as necessary. i.e. they could repeat a program if it failed a challenge or skip a program if they were running out of time. I wonder how you would do something like that with the Spike Prime, given that it no longer has an LCD screen?
@@gregorysealey4939 Ok, choosing program numbers seems like it would work. As far as streaming programs, I was under the impression that FLL rules prohibit a connection to an external device
Yes, Gregory is right that you can queue up to 10 programs onto the hub and select them using the buttons on the hub. The LED matrix lights up to show you which program you selected. I imagine this is the most convenient way to select programs on the fly during competition.
I never competed in FLL, but if there's battle bot competitions, I'm sure the EV3/NXT would win in most cases. Those robots had more mass, bigger motors, etc. They had more torque, and the default wheels had more grip than the new wheels. It would probably be easier for those robots to push the smaller spike prime ones
It will be interesting if narrowing the options by LEGO and FLL will either increase sells or decreases participation. I would support a leveled competition format, at least for the next 5 years, where there were separate groups for EV3 robots and another group for Spike Prime robots. There are many creative and strategic solution pathways that negate the necessity or usage of a gyro. This approach would, in my opinion, extend and expand the learning, thinking and participation. I would be interested in your thoughts. I continue to learn many thinks from your channel and .com even at 578,160+ hours old.
Scroll down when watching. This video works OK as podcast. Kyle and/or is camera has/have serious ADHD and made a jump/zoomcut mess of the video footage. If you still watch: I warned you! Some additions to the talk: The Spike Hub, the Robot Inventor Hub and the Technic Control+ Hub are identical at the core. They all have the same STM32 MCU, only difference is firmware (which you can exchange) and MHz/RAM. All have the same great accelerometer. Softwarewise, the best option is Bricklife Scratch, it is far better than Lego Scratch. The Bricklife version is 100% Scratch with LEGO additions, Lego Scratch is a limited subset with an oversized interface. The Built HAT for use with Arduino or RPi, is also nice, as it has PID routines built in, making balancing and line following and such much easier.
Hey, I have a question which I think you can easily answer. What is the latest Robot Inventor software called? Is it just RI? For e.g. you had the NXT then EV3. And the software uses Scratch, but I think it's called Minstorms, is that right?
I would love to switch... But budgets do not permit. I fear this is another case where the wealthy have an advantage over the less financially able. Don't know how one solves this in FLL (or in the world...)
I think the plan to discontinue the EV3 in FLL is unusual. They never discontinued a legacy platform when a new one came out in the past, so why start now? And you bring up the very fair point that many teams won't have the budget to replace their robot and may just quit when it comes time to switch.
Hey can you make a video for comparisons between the old mat-lab brick software and the scratch software? I'm trying to make a gyro-pid for scratch but I'm a little confused with the new blocks for the gyro and the sensors in general.
I hope I don't offend you here, because you've been so deeply involved in FLL, but perhaps it's up to the kids to make their own decision? You know, like when you were 12 years old? You're ranting as an adult... Basically talking about something that kids are doing...? I get it, it was a big part of your life... But let them learn on their own, no?
Look I'm just saying that perhaps at your age, and being able to look back and appreciate everything you learnt from your experience (you even mentioned it in your video)... Surely you can appreciate that kids need that challenge to figure it out themselves? And if adults are still doing it, OK, but be appreciative of the kids taking the same steps we did back then? Just saying. Peace.
I definitely understand where you are coming from. I take care in my videos to make sure I'm never telling people what to do, and this video is really meant to be me sharing my thoughts as a form of suggestions rather than commanding people to think a certain way. I've had many people ask me to share my thoughts and that's what this is; me sharing my thoughts. Also consider that it's prohibitively expensive for a 12 year old to "try both" EV3 and Spike prime at ~$400 each, so a newcomer may be looking for some honest advice as to which platform may be good to start with. I'm just looking to highlight the merits of the new platform for someone who may be hesitant before making such a big purchase.
A coach's job in any competition is give the team the support they need to do their best and to feel good about their performance. Part of that includes making sure they have the right equipment, and when working with kids, they trust the adults to make some of these decisions for them. If my teams competed this year, they would have used Spike because I think they would have enjoyed their experience more with Spike for many of the reasons Builderdude pointed out, particularly the superior gyro.
It will be interesting if narrowing the options by LEGO and FLL will either increase sells or decreases participation. I would support a leveled competition format, at least for the next 5 years, where there were separate groups for EV3 robots and another group for Spike Prime robots. There are many creative and strategic solution pathways that negate the necessity or usage of a gyro. This approach would, in my opinion, extend and expand the learning, thinking and participation. I would be interested in your thoughts. I continue to learn many thinks from your channel and .com even at 578,160+ hours old.
I personally think FIRST should NOT band the EV3 (or any other legacy platform) with the introduction of Spike Prime. They never banned legacy platforms when a new one was Intro in the past (think: NXT still allowed after EV3 arrived) so I think the move to eventually discontinue EV3 is unusual and questionably motivated. I am of the mind that it will definitely limit participation because many teams with tight budgets may not be able to afford the new platform after the EV3 is discontinued and may just decide to quit.
I find your idea of having separate competition leagues for EV3/Spike intriguing, especially if keeping a level playing field is a big concern. However, i would prefer to see all platforms competing together, because I think platform choice will contribute to the diversity of robot design, which is what I think makes FLL so great.
Are you using EV3 or Spike Prime this year? Let me know here!
Ev3 for us!
EV3
Only ev3 or Mindstorms 51515. ( Soothing thati love )
Ev3
EV3!
Hopefully, there will be a brick pi with raspberry pi solution soon for the new spike prime motors/sensors. It would basically mean a much more advanced hub, even more advanced than the EV3.
Yeah, a Raspberry Pi solution for the new LEGO hardware would be amazing!
@@Builderdude35 PI Hat and raspberry pi 4b
@@Builderdude35Hello I have a new ideea on LDD
I think that school-based FLL Teams will continue to use the EV3, because their after-school budgets are stretched thin. I still see an occasional team using NXT, because they cannot afford to upgrade.
That is a fair point! Many schools will continue to use the equipment they have already. That's how I ended up competing using an NXT robot after the EV3 transition in 2013.
you could still program ev3 with python, and as a matter of fact, i like it better because (from what i've seen) you can't return an RGB value from a color sensor with spike prime. you can only get one of 7 strings containing the name of a color, like "blue", or "red" but this was not the case for ev3
i think the new inventor is great, but i think ev3 is still much more flexible and limitless, and should not be discontinued in my opinion.
My team switched over last season. My teams typically use 4 motors and 2 light sensors, so the other sensors can't be used with the spike prime. Also, we don't see a way to use a global variable which can be used across programs. Another bummer. But, we do like the form factor so will continue to use the system.
Cool! I would be curious to hear more about your experience using the new platform as the upcoming season unfolds. Thanks for sharing!
The main point why we won't switch to Spike Prime is the lack of a useable screen. We use the Screen on the Ev3 for basically everything like debugging, calibration or programming runs (finding the amount of degrees a tool has to move etc.). Yes, you could view that data on your computer by connecting Spike Prime via Bluetooth, but having Bluetooth/Wifi enabled makes the Spike Prime Brick, which already has less computing power than the Ev3, run even slower.
Also the (while smaller) motors have less power/torque.
Yes after watching your earlier Robot Inventor videos we decided to make the change a few months ago. Thanks for the recent videos which have confirmed that this was the right decision for our team
FIRST has not and is not discontinuing use of the EV3 for FIRST LEGO League. Please re-read the first bullet point. "In Tennessee you will be able to continue using the EV3, NXT, and RCX Bricks for FLL events" This is true for FIRST LEGO League everywhere and will not change in 2022! The confusion stems from the third bullet point, where Tennessee refers to LEGO Education offering season specific "Guided missions" in the SPIKE prime app. The integrated lessons are very helpful for new teams but not required.
As you mention my teams have about a dozen ev3 kits and a software suite developed of my blocks which can be taught easily.
Ultimately labview was limited, very buggy, especially with larger files.
My teams ran their mat from within a graphical scheduler activating programs from a colour coded wand( hey, they love Harry Potter).
It worked fab most....of the time but when it bugged out it a nightmare
I have spike prime, but now after using it for two years I am switching back to ev3, the liner code has more control and more options than the block based.
My team is down because of COVID, but when we are able to field a team again, we will use Spike. I like how compact the builds can be and the kids seem to prefer working with them. Within two years, I hope to have my teams coding in python.
Sorry to hear that COVID has put your team on hiatus, but I am glad you are planning a strong return! I think that encouraging Python use will be greatly beneficial to your team members, especially in the long term.
Builder dude went MIA on his channel. :(
Only 6 ports are a step backwards. A huge step backwards. For FLL this hub is usable. For WRO Seniors........
But the new Software is cool, as long you don't want to debug time critical operations /values via BT...
When watching my daughter's FLL tournaments, I noticed that most teams would have a several individual programs loaded on their EV3 brick and use the menu to select and run them as necessary. i.e. they could repeat a program if it failed a challenge or skip a program if they were running out of time. I wonder how you would do something like that with the Spike Prime, given that it no longer has an LCD screen?
You can load up to 10 separate programs in the Spike Prime controller 0-9. You can also stream the program from a tablet or computer.
@@gregorysealey4939 Ok, choosing program numbers seems like it would work. As far as streaming programs, I was under the impression that FLL rules prohibit a connection to an external device
Yes, Gregory is right that you can queue up to 10 programs onto the hub and select them using the buttons on the hub. The LED matrix lights up to show you which program you selected. I imagine this is the most convenient way to select programs on the fly during competition.
actually, you can load 20 programs, 0 through 19
@@Telefiend I just double check and you are correct. I just assumed it stopped at 9 and didn't keep going. Thanks.
The fact that he didn’t mention once what mean FLL unbelievable
I never competed in FLL, but if there's battle bot competitions, I'm sure the EV3/NXT would win in most cases. Those robots had more mass, bigger motors, etc. They had more torque, and the default wheels had more grip than the new wheels. It would probably be easier for those robots to push the smaller spike prime ones
Yup, I can imagine EV3 robots will still be most effective for sumo competitions. Believe it or not, the NXT motors are king when it comes to torque.
It will be interesting if narrowing the options by LEGO and FLL will either increase sells or decreases participation. I would support a leveled competition format, at least for the next 5 years, where there were separate groups for EV3 robots and another group for Spike Prime robots. There are many creative and strategic solution pathways that negate the necessity or usage of a gyro. This approach would, in my opinion, extend and expand the learning, thinking and participation. I would be interested in your thoughts. I continue to learn many thinks from your channel and .com even at 578,160+ hours old.
Excellent Information! Thanks
Its a little sad that a lot of school teams cant upgrade and are gonna have a big disadvantage compared to teams with more money
Scroll down when watching. This video works OK as podcast. Kyle and/or is camera has/have serious ADHD and made a jump/zoomcut mess of the video footage. If you still watch: I warned you!
Some additions to the talk: The Spike Hub, the Robot Inventor Hub and the Technic Control+ Hub are identical at the core. They all have the same STM32 MCU, only difference is firmware (which you can exchange) and MHz/RAM. All have the same great accelerometer.
Softwarewise, the best option is Bricklife Scratch, it is far better than Lego Scratch. The Bricklife version is 100% Scratch with LEGO additions, Lego Scratch is a limited subset with an oversized interface.
The Built HAT for use with Arduino or RPi, is also nice, as it has PID routines built in, making balancing and line following and such much easier.
Hey, I have a question which I think you can easily answer. What is the latest Robot Inventor software called? Is it just RI? For e.g. you had the NXT then EV3. And the software uses Scratch, but I think it's called Minstorms, is that right?
I would love to switch... But budgets do not permit. I fear this is another case where the wealthy have an advantage over the less financially able. Don't know how one solves this in FLL (or in the world...)
I offered a solution in a comment above where FLL would use leveled or flighted competitions based on with or without gyros.
I think the plan to discontinue the EV3 in FLL is unusual. They never discontinued a legacy platform when a new one came out in the past, so why start now? And you bring up the very fair point that many teams won't have the budget to replace their robot and may just quit when it comes time to switch.
Hey can you make a video for comparisons between the old mat-lab brick software and the scratch software? I'm trying to make a gyro-pid for scratch but I'm a little confused with the new blocks for the gyro and the sensors in general.
how's battery on spike prime compared to ev3?
Unless we find funding streams it going to prove very expensive to rekit
Seems you are trying so hard to make the Robot Inventor, which is clearly a downgrade from the EV3, look good.
What about inventor and spike prime which the best for WRO please
I think a lot of the advantages of using LEGO Spike Prime in FLL will also apply to WRO.
In the downloaded build instructions, what is the length of the large axle driving the two attachment locations?
You should work for lego
Not a bad idea! I should send them my resume
And you can use it with Raspberry Pi computer
My team I think is switching
Hi
Sin duda que es mucho mejor el SPIKE PRIME
Please stop the zoom-jumps.... Stopped watching and switched to audio...
What to buy? 51515 exclusively. All the rest is obsolete / obnoxious looking.
I hope I don't offend you here, because you've been so deeply involved in FLL, but perhaps it's up to the kids to make their own decision? You know, like when you were 12 years old? You're ranting as an adult... Basically talking about something that kids are doing...? I get it, it was a big part of your life... But let them learn on their own, no?
Look I'm just saying that perhaps at your age, and being able to look back and appreciate everything you learnt from your experience (you even mentioned it in your video)... Surely you can appreciate that kids need that challenge to figure it out themselves? And if adults are still doing it, OK, but be appreciative of the kids taking the same steps we did back then? Just saying. Peace.
I definitely understand where you are coming from. I take care in my videos to make sure I'm never telling people what to do, and this video is really meant to be me sharing my thoughts as a form of suggestions rather than commanding people to think a certain way. I've had many people ask me to share my thoughts and that's what this is; me sharing my thoughts. Also consider that it's prohibitively expensive for a 12 year old to "try both" EV3 and Spike prime at ~$400 each, so a newcomer may be looking for some honest advice as to which platform may be good to start with. I'm just looking to highlight the merits of the new platform for someone who may be hesitant before making such a big purchase.
@@Builderdude35 that is a totally fair comment and very well put. Thanks for taking the time to reply. 👍🏻
Really, it is the adults who do the purchasing and who will outlast the current group of kids who are competing. Builder Dude, you are awesome.
A coach's job in any competition is give the team the support they need to do their best and to feel good about their performance. Part of that includes making sure they have the right equipment, and when working with kids, they trust the adults to make some of these decisions for them. If my teams competed this year, they would have used Spike because I think they would have enjoyed their experience more with Spike for many of the reasons Builderdude pointed out, particularly the superior gyro.
It will be interesting if narrowing the options by LEGO and FLL will either increase sells or decreases participation. I would support a leveled competition format, at least for the next 5 years, where there were separate groups for EV3 robots and another group for Spike Prime robots. There are many creative and strategic solution pathways that negate the necessity or usage of a gyro. This approach would, in my opinion, extend and expand the learning, thinking and participation. I would be interested in your thoughts. I continue to learn many thinks from your channel and .com even at 578,160+ hours old.
. . . things . . . not thinks. ( auto correct - yikes )
I personally think FIRST should NOT band the EV3 (or any other legacy platform) with the introduction of Spike Prime. They never banned legacy platforms when a new one was Intro in the past (think: NXT still allowed after EV3 arrived) so I think the move to eventually discontinue EV3 is unusual and questionably motivated. I am of the mind that it will definitely limit participation because many teams with tight budgets may not be able to afford the new platform after the EV3 is discontinued and may just decide to quit.
I find your idea of having separate competition leagues for EV3/Spike intriguing, especially if keeping a level playing field is a big concern. However, i would prefer to see all platforms competing together, because I think platform choice will contribute to the diversity of robot design, which is what I think makes FLL so great.