Thanks for such a wonderful explanation. I have suspected this for some time. Years ago I was persuaded to "upgrade" my EL34 amp to military grade first stage tubes. The "upgrade" resulted in a "warmer" sound, i.e. it was a more bass emphasised sound at the expense of the clear highs with the original, cheaper Chinese tubes. I went back to the original, better tubes.
The only thing about burn in that worked for me is getting rid of the humming in a tube. After 48 hours or so of burning in the humming was completely gone. The sound is still the same and I expect it to sound this way until the lifespan ends. Very nice and informative video!
Yes....the Chinese 2a3 are great and they do not have to be burn in before....looking to buy some more....very well made.....thank Ed from New York....be safe and great listening.....🎵🎶🎵
I have many tube amplifiers, 1000's of tubes, and agree with you completely. It's all marketing to get more money out of audiophiles. The only other thing other than test B+ and Grid voltages is test the audible "noise/hum/microphonics" of each tube. One amplifier I have is an old Hammond that is very sensitive to noisy tubes. Without any input source or input cables attached to the amplifier, I put in different tubes and measure audible noises out of a speaker when the amplifier is at full volume. It's amazing the differences from tube to tube you can hear. Some tubes have hum/noise, other are dead quiet. So that's my final grading and then I know the tube is really good.
Rob, don’t know if this will get to you but as a newbie you sounded very knowledgeable to me and I was wondering if I could float a question by you. I recently have what I think is a single tube failure out of four on my Willsenton R8 amp. Would a single tube replacement for it, maintain the sound integrity that came with the unit when it was shipped or reasonably close to, without going through the expense of a matched, a new match set of four EL 34s? Thank you in advance if you have time to respond!
it's good to know that others have paid attention to this process and it's end result. the physics of why a tube "burns in" is very interesting. surfaces change their top molecular structure at the charge level....magnetic fields are established like so many different pathways worn in for electrons to follow...actual structural changes in regards to physical tolerances.... all working together over time to create the response level/performance parameters we love so much out of tube gear. be well sir. good to see you again. =dok=
dear mr ahn, thank you very much i enjoyed this video. i have always used tube amp for guitar but only recently for home stereo, so i am learing. for guitar i tell my repair tech please check tube life and replace with good ones. i always depended on the amp or the type of tube and the rest of my signal chain to determine sonic characteristics. only now do i consider sonic characteristics and other concerns, as theu are new to me. so now im reading and listening to discussions of burn in. than you for the clear and direct lesson on burn in.
Thank you Young. i bought my shuguang 300bs on ebay too. i don’t have any testing equipment but they have been playing solidly for an hour a day for 18 months with only a little downtime due to tinkering. lovely sounding, aural gold. in australia even shuguang is comparatively expensive though.
Very intersting! But what is the max.of hours that a 300B can play without problems? My 15 years old TJ300b(mesh) still play beautiful! I think they have about 5000 hours on the clock! Thinking of replacing them for Shuguang!
I have a mono block Antique sound lab AQ1006 with a 211 and it was a shock to listen the beauty from it. It is with a shuguang electron 211 on it and I swap for a GE (strong old one) and was a little better sound. I look for the supposed best one and the web said ELROG. a single 211 cost $1000. usd! what do you think about that tube? Thanks for all your rechearch in audio. From Montreal, salut.
Hello Young, You advice to buy cheap tubes as you say more expensive ones are a rip off. If I understand you right, you only refer to lifespan. I agree as it's impossible to be sure about how long a tube will last, whatever the price, brand, NOS, etc. 100% coincidence. But, regarding quality sound, no. In the same brand, more expensive tubes sound better in general. Worth the difference in price? That's a personal matter for sure. For instance: on my amp I've had regular Psvane 805 power tubes (about U$S 60/70 per pair), then I upgraded to Psvane 805A-TII, wich cost like three times the previous ones and they were much better tubes.... three times better, not a all !!! Latter on, I upgraded to the GREAT Psvane ACME 805 tubes, wich cost almost 4 times the T-II, but they were NOT four times better of course. Law of diminishing returns! One thing is for sure, most of times, in the same brand, the more expensive the tube the better sound it has.
Thank you for your great & impressive comment on my video. I watch sound quality with state of the art test equipment such as spectrum analyzer, not by my hearing organ. Sound is absolutely same, blind test proves it. People like you are effected by "Psychoacoustics". I get so many emails from people who spent lots of money for long time and they confess ; nothing different, just waste of money after all. I hope my advice would be helpful to your healthy audio life. Thanks. BR. Young
Hello Thank you for sharing this truth. My philosophy is to get " So called High End sound "with real products and not how much they cost. My girlfriend always says are listening to music or the equipment? But your scientific explanations removed lots of smoke around 300B tubes for me. Lately there are so many variations of these tubes that one is completely confused. Because you always feel you are not listening to 300B tubes there are costlier and costlier tubes like Takatsuki tube foe 2700 Euros and Psvane WE300B replica for 900€. I appreciate your effort . I was just going to buy new tubes and your video made me happy. What do you think of the new Linlai 300B tubes from China ? They look like Shuguang but are even cheaper than those. Best Regards . Stay Well
@@YoungAhn Mr . Ahn, I recently had a single tube failure of an EL 34 in my Williston R8 amp. Do you think I should replace all four tubes at once or do you think just a single replacement EL 34 would maintain a good quality sound of my amplifier? Thank you again.
ㅍㅅ! 어떻게 리모콘 만드는지 공유하면 안될까요? 앞서 나가시는 모습이 아름답습니다. 혹시 전화기로 업무를 많이 보시지않나 생각됩니다. 저는 강박증이 좀 있어서 전화기로 은행이나 카드업무를 하지 않습니다. 컴퓨터로만 하니까 불편합니다만 참고 삽니다. 은행, 송금 또는 이배이와 같이 보안을 필요로 하는 일을 위한 컴퓨터도 별도로 있습니다. 여기 북미에서는 대형 쇼핑매장에 이배이 선물카드 파는데요, 웬만하면 그걸 사서 결재합니다(1장에 200불). 패이팰 통해서 신용카드번호가 유출되기는 매우 어렵다고 생각되는데요, 사용하시는 통신수단때문에 유출될 가능성이 있지않나 해서 말씀드렸습니다. 다음에 뵙겠습니다.
@@YoungAhn ㅎㅎ 리모콘은 아주 정말 쉬운 아마추어 수준의 C-언어로 프로그램 하여 만들었 습니다. 댓글에 그림 프로그램 소스등을 올릴수 없으니 ..., 저도 선배님 처럼 진공관 엠프 에서 시작하여, 마이컴, 컴퓨터 프로그램 비쥬얼 스튜디오, 전자케드로 하는 pcb 아트웍크 등을 독학으로 아마추어 수준에서 배우고 활용하고 있습니다. 이베이 것이 영 ~~마음에 안들더군요. 그래서 직접 만들어 버렸 습니다. 먹고 사는건 반도체 생산 전문가 로 현재진행형 이고요... 요즘 취미는 C# 으로 .... 배운다는 것은 항상 설레고 두렵고 궁금하고 걱정되고 하는것 같습니다. 요즘은 구글이 있고 선배님 같으신 훌륭한 유튜브가 계시니 이 모든것이 다 가능한듯 합니다.
I get that Chinese tubes measure well for mutual conductance. Most Chinese tubes measure very high, lots of gain. But I find most of them to be very forward and shouty sounding. Unlike NOS U. S. and European tubes. Even modern European tubes are not in your face shouty . Aside from the TAD STR El84 I dislike most Chinese tubes. I think they are intentionally voiced that way. Seems a cultural choice. Even the 2A3C is very forward . The JJ 2A3 -40 kills Chineese tubes. So dose the Genulex Gold Lion 2A3. Yes, they have high gain, yes they are cheap as Hell. But you still have to listen to them. I mean what good is a reliable tube with high MU if you hate the way it sounds? My 2A3C tubes will live forever ,because I won't use them. There is more to a premium tube than just burn in. The gold Lion you show next to the Shunguge will sonicly beat it every time. Those cheap Chinese tubes have a midrange that glairs , they honk in your face like an angry goose. When will the Chinese start to develop a tube for the western ear, less thin sounding ,with out forward glare . More body with a balanced and controled presentation.
Nice to see and hear someone who wants to be truthful about snake oil in the hifi industry!! Thank you Young Ahn!!
Scientific analysis is always the best way to test ANY electrical circuit. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't. Thanks for the information.
Good afternoon sir. Thank you for your great comment on my videos. Have a great day. Young
Thanks Mr. Ahn, i can't agree more.....there's so much marketing tricks out there, one is this Burning-in.
Thanks for such a wonderful explanation. I have suspected this for some time. Years ago I was persuaded to "upgrade" my EL34 amp to military grade first stage tubes. The "upgrade" resulted in a "warmer" sound, i.e. it was a more bass emphasised sound at the expense of the clear highs with the original, cheaper Chinese tubes. I went back to the original, better tubes.
Dear Young Ahn
Your explaination for aging of tube is so clear and reasonable.
Your word make happy to your many subscribers without any doubt.
안녕하십니까, 안세영입니다. 저의 개인적인 생각일수도 있고해서 백프로 확신은 못합니다만, 많은 분들이 성원해주시네요. 감사합니다.
Refreshing to see a video like this based on technical reality. Thanks!
I agree ,I use Chinese made 845 and 300bs in my s.e.t. mono amplifiers also 300bs in my s.e.t. amp. Sounds great last a long time.
Thank you
The only thing about burn in that worked for me is getting rid of the humming in a tube. After 48 hours or so of burning in the humming was completely gone. The sound is still the same and I expect it to sound this way until the lifespan ends.
Very nice and informative video!
Thanks for your personal experiences with tubes, you seem very knowledgeable and it's great you pass this on.
Yes....the Chinese 2a3 are great and they do not have to be burn in before....looking to buy some more....very well made.....thank Ed from New York....be safe and great listening.....🎵🎶🎵
Welcome to my RUclips channel and thank you for posting a comment on my video. 😃
I have many tube amplifiers, 1000's of tubes, and agree with you completely. It's all marketing to get more money out of audiophiles. The only other thing other than test B+ and Grid voltages is test the audible "noise/hum/microphonics" of each tube. One amplifier I have is an old Hammond that is very sensitive to noisy tubes. Without any input source or input cables attached to the amplifier, I put in different tubes and measure audible noises out of a speaker when the amplifier is at full volume. It's amazing the differences from tube to tube you can hear. Some tubes have hum/noise, other are dead quiet. So that's my final grading and then I know the tube is really good.
Thank u very much for your great comment. Yes, I agree with you sir
Rob, don’t know if this will get to you but as a newbie you sounded very knowledgeable to me and I was wondering if I could float a question by you. I recently have what I think is a single tube failure out of four on my Willsenton R8 amp. Would a single tube replacement for it, maintain the sound integrity that came with the unit when it was shipped or reasonably close to, without going through the expense of a matched, a new match set of four EL 34s? Thank you in advance if you have time to respond!
Thank you, Mr. Ahn! I learned a lot on the 300B tube specs. Sounds like be ordering the cheaper tubes when I order my amp from you. Take care, Randy
Hi dear Mr.Man, thanks for watching my videos. See you next time. Stay safe sir
thank you mr. Ahn. Your videos are very concise but some may be too short. But all informative. Can tell that you are truly an expert in Hifi.
good morning, Thank you very much.
True 👌👍👍
it's good to know that others have paid attention to this process and it's end result. the physics of why a tube "burns in" is very interesting. surfaces change their top molecular structure at the charge level....magnetic fields are established like so many different pathways worn in for electrons to follow...actual structural changes in regards to physical tolerances....
all working together over time to create the response level/performance parameters we love so much out of tube gear.
be well sir.
good to see you again.
=dok=
good morning sir. Thank for your patience reading subtitle. This article is just my own opinion with actual experience. Have a great day. Young
dear mr ahn,
thank you very much i enjoyed this video.
i have always used tube amp for guitar but only recently for home stereo, so i am learing. for guitar i tell my repair tech please check tube life and replace with good ones. i always depended on the amp or the type of tube and the rest of my signal chain to determine sonic characteristics. only now do i consider sonic characteristics and other concerns, as theu are new to me.
so now im reading and listening to discussions of burn in. than you for the clear and direct lesson on burn in.
Gopd morning sir. Thank you for. watching my videos. Have a great weekend
Thank you Young. i bought my shuguang 300bs on ebay too. i don’t have any testing equipment but they have been playing solidly for an hour a day for 18 months with only a little downtime due to tinkering. lovely sounding, aural gold. in australia even shuguang is comparatively expensive though.
glad to hear that. Yes it's a little expensive here in Canada as well. I will see you next time
Very intersting! But what is the max.of hours that a 300B can play without problems? My 15 years old TJ300b(mesh) still play beautiful! I think they have about 5000 hours on the clock! Thinking of replacing them for Shuguang!
I have a mono block Antique sound lab AQ1006 with a 211 and it was a shock to listen the beauty from it. It is with a shuguang electron 211 on it and I swap for a GE (strong old one) and was a little better sound. I look for the supposed best one and the web said ELROG. a single 211 cost $1000. usd! what do you think about that tube? Thanks for all your rechearch in audio. From Montreal, salut.
SHANGLI GUI SHUGUN HAN LACRONA MIA KADO SHUGUN GITCHI GUUGUDO 💙
Thank you for the good explanation
I worked in computer company before, 72 hrs burn-in doesn't guarantee DOA. There was at least 10% DOA after 72 hrs burn-in.
no DOA for 100 300Bs, waste of tube life
Thanks Sir for the info
Thank you for your comment on my video. Have a great evening
Hello Young,
You advice to buy cheap tubes as you say more expensive ones are a rip off.
If I understand you right, you only refer to lifespan. I agree as it's impossible to be sure about how long a tube will last, whatever the price, brand, NOS, etc. 100% coincidence.
But, regarding quality sound, no.
In the same brand, more expensive tubes sound better in general. Worth the difference in price? That's a personal matter for sure.
For instance: on my amp I've had regular Psvane 805 power tubes (about U$S 60/70 per pair), then I upgraded to Psvane 805A-TII, wich cost like three times the previous ones and they were much better tubes.... three times better, not a all !!!
Latter on, I upgraded to the GREAT Psvane ACME 805 tubes, wich cost almost 4 times the T-II, but they were NOT four times better of course. Law of diminishing returns!
One thing is for sure, most of times, in the same brand, the more expensive the tube the better sound it has.
Thank you for your great & impressive comment on my video. I watch sound quality with state of the art test equipment such as spectrum analyzer, not by my hearing organ. Sound is absolutely same, blind test proves it. People like you are effected by "Psychoacoustics". I get so many emails from people who spent lots of money for long time and they confess ; nothing different, just waste of money after all. I hope my advice would be helpful to your healthy audio life. Thanks. BR. Young
Hello Thank you for sharing this truth. My philosophy is to get " So called High End sound "with real products and not how much they cost. My girlfriend always says are listening to music or the equipment? But your scientific explanations removed lots of smoke around 300B tubes for me. Lately there are so many variations of these tubes that one is completely confused. Because you always feel you are not listening to 300B tubes there are costlier and costlier tubes like Takatsuki tube foe 2700 Euros and Psvane WE300B replica for 900€. I appreciate your effort . I was just going to buy new tubes and your video made me happy. What do you think of the new Linlai 300B tubes from China ? They look like Shuguang but are even cheaper than those. Best Regards . Stay Well
good morning dear Teerth, Thank you for your great comment !!!!
Great info. Thanks !
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you 🙏
I appreciate your support. Good day sir
@@YoungAhn Mr . Ahn, I recently had a single tube failure of an EL 34 in my Williston R8 amp.
Do you think I should replace all four tubes at once or do you think just a single replacement EL 34 would maintain a good quality sound of my amplifier? Thank you again.
electron tubes are not musical instruments.
그러면 각 제품의 툽마다 소리의 질감이 다릅니까?
안녕하세요, 저의 영상시청 감사드립니다. 많은 분들이 능동소자(진공관 또는 트랜지스터 등)가 tonal colour등에 영향을 미친다고 생각합니다. 그러나 저는 동의하지 않습니다. 좋은 연말 보내세요
You are a sharp cookie!
Thank you very much
대전 통신학교 10년 후배 입니다.~~~~
이베이 에서 신용카드 도용 당해서 카드 정지 중 입니다.
신용카드 도용 예방 방법 있을까요.?
저는 요즘은 kt-88 에 아두이노로 리모콘 컨트롤 제작중 입니다.
맨땅에 해딩하고 ~~~
ㅍㅅ! 어떻게 리모콘 만드는지 공유하면 안될까요? 앞서 나가시는 모습이 아름답습니다.
혹시 전화기로 업무를 많이 보시지않나 생각됩니다. 저는 강박증이 좀 있어서 전화기로 은행이나 카드업무를 하지 않습니다. 컴퓨터로만 하니까 불편합니다만 참고 삽니다. 은행, 송금 또는 이배이와 같이 보안을 필요로 하는 일을 위한 컴퓨터도 별도로 있습니다. 여기 북미에서는 대형 쇼핑매장에 이배이 선물카드 파는데요, 웬만하면 그걸 사서 결재합니다(1장에 200불). 패이팰 통해서 신용카드번호가 유출되기는 매우 어렵다고 생각되는데요, 사용하시는 통신수단때문에 유출될 가능성이 있지않나 해서 말씀드렸습니다. 다음에 뵙겠습니다.
@@YoungAhn
ㅎㅎ 리모콘은 아주 정말 쉬운 아마추어 수준의 C-언어로 프로그램 하여 만들었 습니다.
댓글에 그림 프로그램 소스등을 올릴수 없으니 ...,
저도 선배님 처럼 진공관 엠프 에서 시작하여, 마이컴, 컴퓨터 프로그램 비쥬얼 스튜디오, 전자케드로 하는 pcb 아트웍크 등을 독학으로 아마추어 수준에서 배우고 활용하고 있습니다. 이베이 것이 영 ~~마음에 안들더군요.
그래서 직접 만들어 버렸 습니다.
먹고 사는건 반도체 생산 전문가 로 현재진행형 이고요...
요즘 취미는 C# 으로 ....
배운다는 것은 항상 설레고 두렵고
궁금하고 걱정되고 하는것 같습니다.
요즘은 구글이 있고 선배님 같으신 훌륭한 유튜브가 계시니 이 모든것이 다 가능한듯 합니다.
Tank you !
Thanks again
I get that Chinese tubes measure well for mutual conductance.
Most Chinese tubes measure very high, lots of gain.
But I find most of them to be very forward and shouty sounding.
Unlike NOS U. S. and European tubes.
Even modern European tubes are not in your face shouty .
Aside from the TAD STR El84 I dislike most Chinese tubes.
I think they are intentionally voiced that way. Seems a cultural choice.
Even the 2A3C is very forward . The JJ 2A3 -40 kills Chineese tubes.
So dose the Genulex Gold Lion 2A3.
Yes, they have high gain, yes they are cheap as Hell.
But you still have to listen to them.
I mean what good is a reliable tube with high MU if you hate the way it sounds?
My 2A3C tubes will live forever ,because I won't use them.
There is more to a premium tube than just burn in. The gold Lion you show next to the Shunguge will sonicly beat it every time.
Those cheap Chinese tubes have a midrange that glairs , they honk in your face like an angry goose.
When will the Chinese start to develop a tube for the western ear, less thin sounding ,with out forward glare . More body with a balanced and controled presentation.
Get out of audio myth amigo
I am not in a myth.
Been doing it my whole life.
57 years.
I've owned more gear and rolled more tubes than I care to comment on.