This is such a high intensity moment for Astarion, and with the insight checks its revealed that hes basically out of his mind with the fear, blood, adrenaline and the promise of power. The fact that even a romanced tav, if they dont persuade him to stay a spawn (and just flat out deny his request) or end the ritual midway through, he will perm leave the party shocked me so hard. Im glad the devs gave him the agency to do this. This moment is so important to him and his character and to flat out deny it or ruin it for him (stopping the ritual) after starting to help him is so devastating.
To me this is him being truly and completely free of everything, he doesnt even feel he has to stay for Tav anymore he truly is done with everything. In a way he got robbed of his purpose. Him attacking you/permanently leaving is just his last act of Real autonomy/rebellion even if it costs him his life, he just doesnt care anymore because he is no longer bound to anything and its brutal 😭
On my first playthrough when I was romancing him, I was able to pass the persuasion checks and talk him down; On my second playthrough, I just chose to kill one of the spawn during the fight, leaving the ritual unable to be completed altogether. Astarion still thanked me for not letting him go through with it + the rest of the party reacted like it was his choice. I guess I’m just writing this to say that there is technically a loophole, but I still agree with your comment and I also like that the devs kept that in there as part of his character.
@@gh0st0nthealtar If you kill a spawn during the fight, he never tastes the power. What's being done here is you've taken a starving child and sat them at a buffet, let them lick a spoon and smell the smells......and then set the buffet on fire before they had a chance to eat. I'm glad Larian put a "loophole" in case a spawn is killed during that fight. It's too easy to murder them with AOEs but there are so many bats that you pretty much have to use them. >.
I like the option of letting Astarion face Cazidor alone after the fight. I look at it as Tav giving Astarion the freedom to choose whether to ascend or not, without any further influence from others. Up to this point, my Tav has expressed his/her opinion on whether or not Astarion should ascend, and now it is up to him to decide what is best for himself. For those who don’t know about this option, what you do is after Cazidor is defeated and he retreats back to his coffin, you split the party and have Tav and the other two companions walk away (I went out of the chamber, but you might just need to go halfway up the steps), and then have Astarion start the dialogue. In my play through, Astarion chose not to ascend, and I think based on what other reviewers and Neil has said, this is the default choice… but I do wonder if Tav encourages ascension; Astarion will to ascend
@@CabinetofThorns he doesnt really make that choice himself, he has no options if you do this. He needs assistance to copy the runes on his back, with no one else there he cant do it
Oh my goodness I can’t believe there’s a version of this where you end up fighting and having to kill Astarion that breaks my heart into a bajillion pieces. Glad I watched this cuz I’m never doing these options for him ever
I did that option with my Githyanki Paladin, started to let him peform the ritual but then realized how corrupt it was making Astarion, so stopped the ritual and had to put him down when he attacked me. Felt appropriate for that character though.
Interesting thing is, if you firstly kill one vampire that should be sacrificed and then Cazador, Astarion will not be able to complete ritual, you got another dialogues and he will be okey.
I romanced Astarion and have maxed out my standing with him just by being a bit chaotic, getting help from the occasional monster, and lying my way into places i wasn't supposed to be. I didn't kill anyone just to make Astarion happy, but I did other stuff I knew he would like. I'm really hoping i can avoid this outcome because I've got Astarion very happy with me and I don't wanna betray him after working so hard to earn and keep his trust. Like yeah I know it's a game, but I'm ridiculously attached to this little pixel vampire.
Keeping this spoiler free. When it comes to the conversation, DON'T ask Astarion, what he needs! Choose the insight check followed by the persuasion check, if you want to stop the ritual and not loose Astarion.
Yeah if you choose the "alright what do you need" option your approval does not matter (i had it maxed) so just avoid it altogether. I chose it because i genuinely didnt know it would doom everything lol
You can also skip the Insight check and tell him to do what he'll be proud of. You can convince him that way, as well, and he'll decide he doesn't want to do it.
For you to get this far with a character whose whole deal is not having bodily autonomy/being able to make his own choices, then flat out telling him no and taking the choice out of his hands? Yeah, this reaction makes sense, honestly. No wonder he feels so betrayed. The spawn ending where you convince him to do what he'll be proud of, for himself, is honestly my favorite. Even though he is an absolute mess with the fear and the promise of power, he's able to look past it and see what he wants to be, and for the first time ever he's able to make that choice for himself and step past what Cazador tried to make him. It's such a powerful moment.
I dont know, the full option says "I want you to live a life youre proud of. You cant be proud of this" which is still influencing him and at this point hes very all over the place with fear that he will basically do anything you suggest. I wish there was an option where you actually dont have to choose for him, like Shadowheart when she faces Nightsong you can tell her to do what she feels is right on her own.
@@covertgoblin but, seems to be that we get +3 approvel when we save him from ascending and nothing if we help him to ascend. If the approvel lists are not wrong here, this shows what he really wants, I guess. But Astarion is all in all unsure what he really wants when he just thinks about it, because he had no choice for such a long time. So it makes sense to me that he tries to make someone else decide it actively for him, if someone is there. x3 In my first run I got this terrible szene because I chose the wrong dialogoption and I was really heartbroken. D: I....loaded my savegame and did it again. I thought there would be more options to talk with him, but when once asked what he needs there seems to be no way back. :') He is not himself in this situation and the reaction makes sense to me. In my opinion we have 2-3 options here. 1. Really save him. (no ascending) 2. Really break him (let him ascend and become what he hated the most, in the long run) 3. Break him because of wrong words in a situation where he is not in his right mind and then goes crazy. I would say..., a situation of save scum for many players. xD
@@covertgoblin if you just not 'want to help' it's a different option, than if you save him from making a bad choice. :3 He disapproves if you just say: No I won't help. But he approves if you save him. But I also think that the dialog after the fight is hard to handle without save scumming. When I asked him, what he needs, I did not expect that this would be the way pro ritual or that he breaks and fights us. I thought there would be options to make him think about what he needs. It makes sense that it's not like this, because he is not himself in this moment. But to get this to know we must choose another dialogoption, which is gone when we first asked him what he needs. D: And also seems like that we only can get to know it if we're in romanze with him. Tricky P:
@@lunyiea if you fail the persuasion check he will explain how he hates living as a spawn and that he really needs your help, if you still decline he will disapprove because he already told you that he doesnt want to keep living that way... which is really sad and feels wrong to me after all :( i agree, closing the other options after you choose to ask what he needs help with is a bit drastic. i wanted to respect his autonomy before even trying to persuade him but that just doomed the whole thing lol. specially after i told him "im sure you will make the right decision" but its tricky with him because he actually does need your help to ascend, he cant do it alone so he cant really choose to do it on his own
Talking him out of ascension didn’t really seem like ruining it for me My character was highly chaotic neutral, but she had a bright moment, that it could be her instead of Sebastian in the cell. So i did the Insight check, then persuasion. Then one long rest later he told her, she saved him, from himself. Of course the grave date scene came after that. When he suddenly said he loved her, i was like “WTF? i think i just broke Astarion”. 😅 But in the end he said he wanted her as equal partner. So I feel that by killing Cazador he breaks the circle of abuse. For me,,that is also a good ending, because they stayed together and had an ending in freedom ❤
I did the same and no one can change my mind: It's the best ending. I even tried the ascension ending, but he was too possessive (had once a possessive and abusive partner irl - that's not romantic!) and he saw my Tav not as an equal. But as a spawn he is sweet (in his own way).
Even if you dont romance him, its the better outcome for him. He finally learns to accept himself for who he is and becomes an Antihero. Plus if Minsc is working with the Guild instead of hunting Zhents, he'll follow Astarion around in the Sewers lol
In my play through I tried to knock out one of the spawn during the fight to prevent Cazador from healing. Unforutnately, even though I switched to non-lethal damage, it still turned the spawn to ash, and then the ritual wasn't available. Astarion stabbed Cazador to death and then it went to debating what to do about the other spawn. Astarion didn't even acknowledge that we "ruined" the ritual in any way, wasn't angry or anything. And after that the other companions praised Astarion for the noble choice of giving up all that power, even though he never had the choice to begin with. :P So I guess if you don't have high enough approval from Astarion but still want the "good" version of the no ritual ending, that's the way to do it.
I’m so upset that him getting the ascendant powers makes him just as bad as Cazador, but it makes sense. Vengeance and power have been his biggest desires for so long that there isn’t room for anything else.
I was so scared of Astarion leaving because his relationship level was the lowest out of everyone for me. He didn't hate me but never really liked me either. I'm glad I convinced him he was better than Cazador and he didn't go forward with the ritual and he rescued everyone. I love how drastically different the outcomes can be for him depending on what you do and say. I love making characters like that!
It can me argued an interrupted from ascension Astarion is even crueler than the ascended in relation to the vampire spawn captives. At least in ascension they die as a mean to a end, in this he kills them by pure rage fueled egoistic cruelty.
Yeah, same... And if the relationship was at exceptional level up to that point, romanced or otherwise - I imagine the pain that comes after that line is immense on both ends, even if for different reasons. It's just depressing
There is a super simple way to avoid any of this drama from happening and I got it in my first playthrough. accidentally kill one of the sacrifices. He has no option for him to continue with the ritual, not even the hint of one, so he ended up killing Cazador, no hard feelings. Finished and done.
I just killed one of the thralls during the battle with Cazador. Astarion's only reaction is to yell "what are you DOING?" during the fight, but afterward, all is normal.
wooow. I never saw this version and it's gut wrenching. My Tav-bard romanced Astarion and had maxed approval and bard did what bard does... negotiates and persuades. Also because of some misty step shenanigans, Astarion was the character I was controlling when I initially talked to the prisoners and he was the one to promise he would help them. Whoops? I think I rolled double what I needed for the persuasion check and Astarion just stopped and killed Cazador and released everyone. FWIW 8 wisdom bard never even attempted the Insight check. I just went straight to the persuasion option because that was 110% my bard playstyle.
I had the option to persuade him not to, that it's not what he truly wanted (or some such thing). Succeeded the persuasion roll and he went with it. He brutally stabbed Cazador like a million times and screamed in anger, but I felt that was justified and cathartic for him. We freed the vampires. He seemed happy with that decision the rest of the game and at peace in a way I heard he isn't if he ascends.
In my playthrough I got the ending where he attacks you. I felt the tensions between him and I building up in the third act, and narratively this felt like the right way for our characters to treat each other. It really sucked to lose his skills after having him in my party for most of the game, but stopping him from completing the ritual just made sense.
For better or worse my game glitched, and I never saw this. During the Cazador fight I cast daylight as an orb, not on a weapon. So despite me outright rejecting to help Astarion ascend, the scene cut off mid-cry. I'm guessing the game was like, "okay, we have all these vampires here by this daylight orb," and they fled instead of continuing the interaction, so it was just... Weird. The staff also just didnt drop, so I never got the option to free the captives or not. But Astarion was there and interactable as if that all was supposed to happen?! I ended up reloading and fighting Cazador again, casting daylight on a weapon, and chose the right options because I had read Astarion would leave the party, thinking he'd just... Choose to leave from camp later or something. All that to say, I guess glitches sometimes work out for the better. I would've cried if I got this live.
Huh interesting. In my playthrough I convinced astarion he didn't need to ascend before the fight, so afterward I both didn't ascend him and got to free the spawn
It’s not an option in the game to talk him out of it in advance. As long as all of the spawn are still alive, he will always try to get you to help him ascend.
@@grymmoire This is just patently not true. I didn't kill the spawn during the fight, and afterwards asteraion did not ascend, he killed kazador, and remained on friendly terms with me until the end of the game.
@@Karzakus You can 100% convince Astarion not to ascend after the fight, and he's perfectly happy to do so. You cannot convince him not to ascend before you fight Cazador ;)
After spending two whole playthroughs romancing him, I got a variant of this scene with my Gloomstalker Ranger/Rogue run. I never really brought him along because of party comp and to see other companion banters and never got the insight check. So it was whether to help him or refuse him. He just cussed me out and left my party without attacking, then I sent the Gur to deal with their children.
Oh man, I had killed one of the other vampire spawn in the ritual while we were fighting Cazador and Astarion said something like "No! You ruined it!", but once the fight was over it was like he didn't care about the ritual anymore, lol.
I did the first options accidently the first time, of course had to reload, but I understand his behavior. You ask what he needs and then refuse to help him, like everyone else he's ever asked in the past. The one time he thought someone was going to help him and he trusts (and maybe loves them) they turn on him and refuse to help at all. You also don't even help him see the good in himself, just flat out refuse to do anything for him.
I somehow really fucked up my first playthrough and got this result.... I ended up just starting a new campaign as I total;ly lost heart after this happened.
Astarion is so normal with the party only because of the tadpole. He has a very pathetic existance as a spawn, which none of the party members ever have to see. He cannot go out in the sun, has a unquenchable thirst for blood. The player character essentially kills both of his ways of overcoming this disease
Mine was a bit different he was just fed up broke the staff said he was done, doesn't care what happens to the ones in the cells but notes that they're feral and should be locked up or dead, he was exasperated but he was convinced the power would have corrupted him.
Yeah, of all the companion quests, this was by far the most morbid. Shadowheart's dilemma isn't quite the same as knowing how many people will die if you go through with it, leaving them there, or letting them out. There are no real good outcomes to this, just hopeful ones. I think he is easier to convince if you largely play to freedom, and not ever forcing him to do anything. Even with the drow, I flat out went "Potion is useful, but it's your choice. You don't want to do it again? That's fine. Don't want the astral tadpole, I won't force it on you." And in the end, when he asked, was just like "This is ultimately your choice, but this will just make you like Cazador. Is that what you really want?" "No, not really." "Then lets put an end to this... and then we can finish what we started." While he does seem to be more evil, ultimately I think it's just a matter of having freedom over actual power
Sadly, this was the only Astarion ending available for me in my first playthrough. I kept reloading and trying other options, but because of my previous decisions I was locked into either killing him or him abandoning the party. It was rough. I genuinely don't know how to get a different ending on my next run, but I hope I do. I'd like to see him in the epilogue.
Yes just had that😢 unfortunately in my first run he doesn't get over the "neutral" feelings towards my girl 😂 and then this scene happened and he basically spit in ma face. 1st I was like, should I reload and try again? But damn I just ended the 8th attempt of cazador fight, and I forgot to save after 😢 so Astarion vanished and I was like "oh, well'😅. I'm trying to romance him in the next run, my chara is now just way too nice 😅
i think these play out the same way regardless of if youre romancing him or not, from what ive read the only difference is that if youre not romancing him its easier to persuade him to stay a spawn (you cant ask him what he needs help with though you must pick another option). i havent checked if this is true yet because ive romanced him in all my playthroughs haha
On my first run i stopped the ritual, i wanted to go with it because its what hes been begging for.. But Karlach kept pleading him to stop and it got to me to stop the ritual.. i killed him and god i balled my eyes out. I decided to reload and tried to side with him, god, that was another moment i balled my eyes out, When he Ascended the change was immedietly, He spoke to me in this horrible way, i missed Astarions sweet way of speaking, the effection in his tone, Ascended Astarion treated me like property and even called me something horrible when i didnt like how he called me as ¨pet¨ and asked him not to. I believed he said ¨it was a joke you humerless wrench¨, He pressured me to be a vampire even though i clearly didnt want it, but i went through assuming he would relax and change, Nope, he had the same nasty attitude.. breaking up was hard..and it was just me balling the whole time because in my mind: i wanted him to ascende so he could enjoy daylight and live a normal life after this whole brain thing was over, i didnt care that hed have power or be a real vampire, i just wanted him to keep enjoying the color and have him live as a human again..or close to that.. Its what he wanted and i just wanted to give it to him.. I failed the insight and god i felt like a garbage person
I never got this ending? How does one get this (I was even low relationship with astarion and he never gave me an ultimatum of "help me ascend or i'll just leave forever")
In my playthrough I let him complete the ritual and have everything he ever wanted. And then when the monster hunters showed up I sided with them and killed him 😂 Thus killing every vampire in the city (all vampires consumed through the ritual and then finally Astarion)
This is just if we fail the check. When we save him from this ritual he is very thankful afterwards. Ascending is not what he really wants. Seems to be that we also get +3 approvel when we save him from ascending and nothing if we help him to ascend. :')
Apparently, if you play as him or you let him go in alone to fight Cazador (leave your Tav outside), he'll choose not to ascend all on his own. You also get some unique dialogue. Just watched a video on it. The approval from not ascending, the thanks you get from him for talking him out of it, and how he acts when he's alone is all proof that ascension is not the best path for him. Personally, I think he only ever wants ascension bc he thinks he'll have a better chance at protecting Tav, if you romance him or become good friends, at least. If you don't romance or become pals, then I think it could be bc he believes he'll be of more use to his allies in taking down the Absolute, etc. Just a theory, though, since there's no canonical "right choice" or reason.
@@tacklebox5374 yeah he needs assistance to ascend, he cant do it on his own. if he cant get help of course he wont be able to ascend so its not technicaly a choice he can make.
The better ending for him is one that works better for *your* story and what resonates with you more. For me, it's the Ascendant, but the majority in the community will throw rotten tomatoes at me because they consider it "bad". Pick whatever ending works well for your romance and character. If you want a tragic Mayfly-December romance - pick Spawn, if you play as villainous character and want a Dracula/Brides dynamics - go with Ascendant. There is no "best" ending.
*SPOILERS* i got this scene in one of my run, i figured that's because all the sacrificial lamb is still up and i tried killing all of them i got better ending for him, no romance not sure what triggered this scene and another tho
God, the weird censoring boob-tape for streamer settings is so weird. They should have just gone canon 5E and not let non-Drow Elves have any secondary sexual characteristics including boobs.
To deny him ascension is to condem him to the dark forever. I undesrtand him, what good is it being a cool guy in the darkness? I'd rather be a dick like he is after ascension and being able to walk in the sun. He is still our friend, i cant deny him that.
I’m very confused. How did I easily convince my Astarion to be a better person? Is it that you have to always tell him from the start that more power shouldn’t be the goal? My first playthrough was extremely noble.
If you choose to ask what you could help him with the game will lock you into this or letting him ascend, but if you choose to persuade him from the start then its fine
@@covertgoblin Okay so in times where he blusters you would need to say “maybe” or “sure, I’ll help” sort of thing? I just want to avoid this because he’s my second favourite.
@@JamesCourse66you should select any option that is not "all right what do you need" (as seen at the start of this video) because this is the one that will trigger this scene and will lock you into ascension/him leaving. Im not sure if "im not doing this" is safe to pick so 2 and 3 should be fine and will lead you to persuading him and ultimately into him not ascending if you succeed (this is from my run where i romanced him so idk, if youre not romancing him then its probably easier)
28 STAB WOUNDS, YOU DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE HIM A CHANCE, HUH!? DID YOU FEEL ANGER!? HATE!? HE WAS BLEEDING, BEGGIN YOU FOR MERCY, BUT YOU STABBED HIM, AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN!!!
My durge last night freed herself from Bhaal then went to help Astarion. She ended up allowing him to ascend because she felt that letting thousands of feral spawn into the world would be too dangerous and she wanted him to be free. She failed her insight check so she felt that ascension was the best option, not to mention his pleading combined with her curiosity over-rode her common sense to tell him no or convince him otherwise. But, she's now his vampiric consort so....
It's still a bad idea to let him ascend. Lol. This ending is only if you play along with his initial attempts to ascend- if you tell him from the get-go that ascending is a terrible idea, he's thankful that you didn't let him do it- that you reminded him that he was good enough as he was.
You should be able to have the option to persuade him not to do it... and he gets kinda bummed but then gets a moment of clarity later, and thanks for your profusely for it.
@@Call-me-CreedsIn that chamber he was essentially "under the influence". Of power. Almost like on drugs. He wasn't himself. So while he wasn't happy about the refusal of help at first he was once he was himself again.
I don’t know if I’m twisted or what. There’s just never a play thru that I’ll ever choose to not ascend astarion, for lore and for gameplay wise. (Outside of finding out what happens if you choose to not let him do the ritual)
Yeah, you probably are a bit. But hey we all are in our own ways. Just not necessarily all in the forsake-the-last-shreds-of-astarions-humanity-for-that-sweet-ascended-bite-and-neucrotic-1d10 type of twisted.
@@DM-nw5lu last shreds of humanity? You would let loose 1000 starved spawns upon the world? Each spawn kills 1 person that’s 1000 people. Only half kill people? That’s 500 people. Vs killing spawns who were already thought to be dead… way tough choice. He legit gains nothing for not acceding. He loses everything…. You’re wild lmfao
@@TH-fu1qn He is himself and free. Capable of love and kindness. Ascended he's still just a slave. A slave to power. And we don't know if they kill anyone. They went into the underdark. Astarion didn't kill anyone to feed on after turning into a spawn. Entirely possible neither will they with the help of the other spawn (including Astarion). So nothing wild about it. Ascended Astarion is power hungry to no end. Who knows now many more spawn he will turn and how many innocents he'll kill to subjugate all of Faerun. Likely more than the spawn have the potential to kill in the underdark.
Pointless thematics, you’re not accounting for the life’s lost by allowing the spawns to live. You’re trying to romanticize someone who was abused over the course of several centuries. Truly caring about him as a person would be allowing him to heal by letting him feel powerful. Letting him making his own choices. Which the entire Game Center’s his personality around, him making his own decisions. We support him the most by allowing him to make that decision himself. Taking upon ourselves to decided what’s best for him and the world is the selfish in itself.
@@DM-nw5lu you can literally talk to the spawns after in the sewers. It’s very easy to deduce they will kill over the course of their extremely long and “hungry life”. What does astarian gain by ascending? Oh that’s right he gains the ability to not be controlled by the hunger that drives him the entire game Lul.
Lol I stopped the ritual and killed Astarion. I honestly thought it was a really fun moment. I wanted to see if he'd stop on his own when it was clear he wasn't gonna stop I realized he was just an evil vampire manipulating me with his charm the entire time!
Bro na you just did an oopsie on his quest. He was just overwhelmed by the blood and fear and ascending isn't really what he wanted wich is shown by convincing him to stop gives approval.
@@alanmark8452 Fun fact: If you send him in without Tav he does not ask any companion to lend him their eyes and chooses to stop the ritual and free the spawn. If Tav is there whether or not he does it depends entirely on what Tav does. But yeah, he approves if you talk him out of it and then also thanks you genuinely after. In the ritual chamber it was almost like he was high on power and fear and not himself.
@@alanmark8452I'm a hoe for loot. I never push/telikinesise people into chasm therefore. So in my eyes that was just a stupid decision on our end :p My hoarder tendencies are also probably why my runs are always so long... no crate stays untouched. If they ever fill up vases with loot in a future patch I'm doomed.
ive never seen this these scenes as im way too much of a bro to astarion and un doing a femstarion run and if she wants my help well how the hell am i going to say no to such a beautiful girlfriend lol.
How? He is back to being a slave. A slave to power. And he no longer is capable of love. Just of obsession and possession. Even the writers said ascending him is the bad ending.
This is such a high intensity moment for Astarion, and with the insight checks its revealed that hes basically out of his mind with the fear, blood, adrenaline and the promise of power. The fact that even a romanced tav, if they dont persuade him to stay a spawn (and just flat out deny his request) or end the ritual midway through, he will perm leave the party shocked me so hard. Im glad the devs gave him the agency to do this. This moment is so important to him and his character and to flat out deny it or ruin it for him (stopping the ritual) after starting to help him is so devastating.
To me this is him being truly and completely free of everything, he doesnt even feel he has to stay for Tav anymore he truly is done with everything. In a way he got robbed of his purpose. Him attacking you/permanently leaving is just his last act of Real autonomy/rebellion even if it costs him his life, he just doesnt care anymore because he is no longer bound to anything and its brutal 😭
On my first playthrough when I was romancing him, I was able to pass the persuasion checks and talk him down; On my second playthrough, I just chose to kill one of the spawn during the fight, leaving the ritual unable to be completed altogether. Astarion still thanked me for not letting him go through with it + the rest of the party reacted like it was his choice. I guess I’m just writing this to say that there is technically a loophole, but I still agree with your comment and I also like that the devs kept that in there as part of his character.
@@gh0st0nthealtar If you kill a spawn during the fight, he never tastes the power. What's being done here is you've taken a starving child and sat them at a buffet, let them lick a spoon and smell the smells......and then set the buffet on fire before they had a chance to eat.
I'm glad Larian put a "loophole" in case a spawn is killed during that fight. It's too easy to murder them with AOEs but there are so many bats that you pretty much have to use them. >.
I like the option of letting Astarion face Cazidor alone after the fight. I look at it as Tav giving Astarion the freedom to choose whether to ascend or not, without any further influence from others. Up to this point, my Tav has expressed his/her opinion on whether or not Astarion should ascend, and now it is up to him to decide what is best for himself.
For those who don’t know about this option, what you do is after Cazidor is defeated and he retreats back to his coffin, you split the party and have Tav and the other two companions walk away (I went out of the chamber, but you might just need to go halfway up the steps), and then have Astarion start the dialogue. In my play through, Astarion chose not to ascend, and I think based on what other reviewers and Neil has said, this is the default choice… but I do wonder if Tav encourages ascension; Astarion will to ascend
@@CabinetofThorns he doesnt really make that choice himself, he has no options if you do this. He needs assistance to copy the runes on his back, with no one else there he cant do it
I just kind of told him doing that would be no different from Cazador. He was like yea screw that guy and didn't do it.
Giving him what he doesn't really want (ascending) turns him into an abusive monster.
I was already crying when Astarion started crying after killig Cazador. But when he said I hope you die screaming... that hit harder 😢
Oh my goodness I can’t believe there’s a version of this where you end up fighting and having to kill Astarion that breaks my heart into a bajillion pieces. Glad I watched this cuz I’m never doing these options for him ever
i accidentally did because i didn't realize you have to convince him not to do it before he even tries. immediate reload lol
I did that option with my Githyanki Paladin, started to let him peform the ritual but then realized how corrupt it was making Astarion, so stopped the ritual and had to put him down when he attacked me. Felt appropriate for that character though.
Interesting thing is, if you firstly kill one vampire that should be sacrificed and then Cazador, Astarion will not be able to complete ritual, you got another dialogues and he will be okey.
I romanced Astarion and have maxed out my standing with him just by being a bit chaotic, getting help from the occasional monster, and lying my way into places i wasn't supposed to be.
I didn't kill anyone just to make Astarion happy, but I did other stuff I knew he would like. I'm really hoping i can avoid this outcome because I've got Astarion very happy with me and I don't wanna betray him after working so hard to earn and keep his trust. Like yeah I know it's a game, but I'm ridiculously attached to this little pixel vampire.
Keeping this spoiler free. When it comes to the conversation, DON'T ask Astarion, what he needs! Choose the insight check followed by the persuasion check, if you want to stop the ritual and not loose Astarion.
Yeah if you choose the "alright what do you need" option your approval does not matter (i had it maxed) so just avoid it altogether. I chose it because i genuinely didnt know it would doom everything lol
@@covertgoblin It's one of the rare circumstances where asking a question locks you out of other options.
You can also skip the Insight check and tell him to do what he'll be proud of. You can convince him that way, as well, and he'll decide he doesn't want to do it.
(You can also bypass the dilemma entirely by killing one of the other spawn during the fight.)
For you to get this far with a character whose whole deal is not having bodily autonomy/being able to make his own choices, then flat out telling him no and taking the choice out of his hands? Yeah, this reaction makes sense, honestly. No wonder he feels so betrayed.
The spawn ending where you convince him to do what he'll be proud of, for himself, is honestly my favorite. Even though he is an absolute mess with the fear and the promise of power, he's able to look past it and see what he wants to be, and for the first time ever he's able to make that choice for himself and step past what Cazador tried to make him. It's such a powerful moment.
I dont know, the full option says "I want you to live a life youre proud of. You cant be proud of this" which is still influencing him and at this point hes very all over the place with fear that he will basically do anything you suggest. I wish there was an option where you actually dont have to choose for him, like Shadowheart when she faces Nightsong you can tell her to do what she feels is right on her own.
@@covertgoblin but, seems to be that we get +3 approvel when we save him from ascending and nothing if we help him to ascend. If the approvel lists are not wrong here, this shows what he really wants, I guess.
But Astarion is all in all unsure what he really wants when he just thinks about it, because he had no choice for such a long time. So it makes sense to me that he tries to make someone else decide it actively for him, if someone is there. x3
In my first run I got this terrible szene because I chose the wrong dialogoption and I was really heartbroken. D:
I....loaded my savegame and did it again.
I thought there would be more options to talk with him, but when once asked what he needs there seems to be no way back. :')
He is not himself in this situation and the reaction makes sense to me. In my opinion we have 2-3 options here.
1. Really save him. (no ascending)
2. Really break him (let him ascend and become what he hated the most, in the long run)
3. Break him because of wrong words in a situation where he is not in his right mind and then goes crazy.
I would say..., a situation of save scum for many players. xD
@@lunyiea in my evil run he disapproved of me not helping him ascend, so it most likely will just depend on your choices with him up until that point
@@covertgoblin if you just not 'want to help' it's a different option, than if you save him from making a bad choice. :3
He disapproves if you just say: No I won't help. But he approves if you save him.
But I also think that the dialog after the fight is hard to handle without save scumming. When I asked him, what he needs, I did not expect that this would be the way pro ritual or that he breaks and fights us. I thought there would be options to make him think about what he needs. It makes sense that it's not like this, because he is not himself in this moment. But to get this to know we must choose another dialogoption, which is gone when we first asked him what he needs. D:
And also seems like that we only can get to know it if we're in romanze with him.
Tricky P:
@@lunyiea if you fail the persuasion check he will explain how he hates living as a spawn and that he really needs your help, if you still decline he will disapprove because he already told you that he doesnt want to keep living that way... which is really sad and feels wrong to me after all :(
i agree, closing the other options after you choose to ask what he needs help with is a bit drastic. i wanted to respect his autonomy before even trying to persuade him but that just doomed the whole thing lol. specially after i told him "im sure you will make the right decision" but its tricky with him because he actually does need your help to ascend, he cant do it alone so he cant really choose to do it on his own
Talking him out of ascension didn’t really seem like ruining it for me
My character was highly chaotic neutral, but she had a bright moment, that it could be her instead of Sebastian in the cell. So i did the Insight check, then persuasion. Then one long rest later he told her, she saved him, from himself. Of course the grave date scene came after that. When he suddenly said he loved her, i was like “WTF? i think i just broke Astarion”. 😅
But in the end he said he wanted her as equal partner. So I feel that by killing Cazador he breaks the circle of abuse. For me,,that is also a good ending, because they stayed together and had an ending in freedom ❤
I did the same and no one can change my mind: It's the best ending. I even tried the ascension ending, but he was too possessive (had once a possessive and abusive partner irl - that's not romantic!) and he saw my Tav not as an equal. But as a spawn he is sweet (in his own way).
@@KitsuneHB Thank yooouuu, finally someone understands me :D
Even if you dont romance him, its the better outcome for him. He finally learns to accept himself for who he is and becomes an Antihero. Plus if Minsc is working with the Guild instead of hunting Zhents, he'll follow Astarion around in the Sewers lol
The begging for help again and again is pure pain.
In my play through I tried to knock out one of the spawn during the fight to prevent Cazador from healing. Unforutnately, even though I switched to non-lethal damage, it still turned the spawn to ash, and then the ritual wasn't available. Astarion stabbed Cazador to death and then it went to debating what to do about the other spawn. Astarion didn't even acknowledge that we "ruined" the ritual in any way, wasn't angry or anything. And after that the other companions praised Astarion for the noble choice of giving up all that power, even though he never had the choice to begin with. :P
So I guess if you don't have high enough approval from Astarion but still want the "good" version of the no ritual ending, that's the way to do it.
@gina-hp2jo Perhaps I missed it, was busy fighting. :P
I’m so upset that him getting the ascendant powers makes him just as bad as Cazador, but it makes sense. Vengeance and power have been his biggest desires for so long that there isn’t room for anything else.
I was so scared of Astarion leaving because his relationship level was the lowest out of everyone for me. He didn't hate me but never really liked me either. I'm glad I convinced him he was better than Cazador and he didn't go forward with the ritual and he rescued everyone. I love how drastically different the outcomes can be for him depending on what you do and say. I love making characters like that!
It can me argued an interrupted from ascension Astarion is even crueler than the ascended in relation to the vampire spawn captives. At least in ascension they die as a mean to a end, in this he kills them by pure rage fueled egoistic cruelty.
“I hope you die screaming.” Is a haunting line to me. No joke, my stomach twisted in on itself when I got this scene.
Yeah, same... And if the relationship was at exceptional level up to that point, romanced or otherwise - I imagine the pain that comes after that line is immense on both ends, even if for different reasons. It's just depressing
There is a super simple way to avoid any of this drama from happening and I got it in my first playthrough.
accidentally kill one of the sacrifices. He has no option for him to continue with the ritual, not even the hint of one, so he ended up killing Cazador, no hard feelings. Finished and done.
I just killed one of the thralls during the battle with Cazador. Astarion's only reaction is to yell "what are you DOING?" during the fight, but afterward, all is normal.
This was my first ending too, my heart broke. I didnt save after the boss so i had to fight for another 30 min lol
Haha same i just feel like saying "sure what do you need" is such a natural thing to say but it ruined everything lol
wooow. I never saw this version and it's gut wrenching. My Tav-bard romanced Astarion and had maxed approval and bard did what bard does... negotiates and persuades. Also because of some misty step shenanigans, Astarion was the character I was controlling when I initially talked to the prisoners and he was the one to promise he would help them. Whoops? I think I rolled double what I needed for the persuasion check and Astarion just stopped and killed Cazador and released everyone.
FWIW 8 wisdom bard never even attempted the Insight check. I just went straight to the persuasion option because that was 110% my bard playstyle.
If you want to avoid this part, just make sure that any one of the other spawn die during the fight... thus preventing both of them from ascending.
I had the option to persuade him not to, that it's not what he truly wanted (or some such thing). Succeeded the persuasion roll and he went with it. He brutally stabbed Cazador like a million times and screamed in anger, but I felt that was justified and cathartic for him. We freed the vampires. He seemed happy with that decision the rest of the game and at peace in a way I heard he isn't if he ascends.
In my playthrough we helped him ascend, then ganked him with the Gur mercenaries...Got to admit, it was quite ruthless...
In my playthrough I got the ending where he attacks you. I felt the tensions between him and I building up in the third act, and narratively this felt like the right way for our characters to treat each other. It really sucked to lose his skills after having him in my party for most of the game, but stopping him from completing the ritual just made sense.
For better or worse my game glitched, and I never saw this. During the Cazador fight I cast daylight as an orb, not on a weapon. So despite me outright rejecting to help Astarion ascend, the scene cut off mid-cry. I'm guessing the game was like, "okay, we have all these vampires here by this daylight orb," and they fled instead of continuing the interaction, so it was just... Weird. The staff also just didnt drop, so I never got the option to free the captives or not. But Astarion was there and interactable as if that all was supposed to happen?!
I ended up reloading and fighting Cazador again, casting daylight on a weapon, and chose the right options because I had read Astarion would leave the party, thinking he'd just... Choose to leave from camp later or something. All that to say, I guess glitches sometimes work out for the better. I would've cried if I got this live.
Huh interesting. In my playthrough I convinced astarion he didn't need to ascend before the fight, so afterward I both didn't ascend him and got to free the spawn
It’s not an option in the game to talk him out of it in advance. As long as all of the spawn are still alive, he will always try to get you to help him ascend.
@@grymmoire This is just patently not true. I didn't kill the spawn during the fight, and afterwards asteraion did not ascend, he killed kazador, and remained on friendly terms with me until the end of the game.
@@Karzakus You can 100% convince Astarion not to ascend after the fight, and he's perfectly happy to do so. You cannot convince him not to ascend before you fight Cazador ;)
Why didn't he do this before when we looked at his back...also when he doesn't really know what he looks like. He's so weird lol
After spending two whole playthroughs romancing him, I got a variant of this scene with my Gloomstalker Ranger/Rogue run. I never really brought him along because of party comp and to see other companion banters and never got the insight check. So it was whether to help him or refuse him. He just cussed me out and left my party without attacking, then I sent the Gur to deal with their children.
Oh man, I had killed one of the other vampire spawn in the ritual while we were fighting Cazador and Astarion said something like "No! You ruined it!", but once the fight was over it was like he didn't care about the ritual anymore, lol.
2 days ago I got the 1st variant by mistake. Wanted to get the "good" ending and chose wrong at the beginnig. It was so bad 😬
I did the first options accidently the first time, of course had to reload, but I understand his behavior. You ask what he needs and then refuse to help him, like everyone else he's ever asked in the past. The one time he thought someone was going to help him and he trusts (and maybe loves them) they turn on him and refuse to help at all. You also don't even help him see the good in himself, just flat out refuse to do anything for him.
I somehow really fucked up my first playthrough and got this result.... I ended up just starting a new campaign as I total;ly lost heart after this happened.
completing the cycle
Astarion is so normal with the party only because of the tadpole. He has a very pathetic existance as a spawn, which none of the party members ever have to see. He cannot go out in the sun, has a unquenchable thirst for blood.
The player character essentially kills both of his ways of overcoming this disease
You can talk him out of it too.
Mine was a bit different he was just fed up broke the staff said he was done, doesn't care what happens to the ones in the cells but notes that they're feral and should be locked up or dead, he was exasperated but he was convinced the power would have corrupted him.
Yeah, of all the companion quests, this was by far the most morbid. Shadowheart's dilemma isn't quite the same as knowing how many people will die if you go through with it, leaving them there, or letting them out. There are no real good outcomes to this, just hopeful ones.
I think he is easier to convince if you largely play to freedom, and not ever forcing him to do anything. Even with the drow, I flat out went "Potion is useful, but it's your choice. You don't want to do it again? That's fine. Don't want the astral tadpole, I won't force it on you." And in the end, when he asked, was just like "This is ultimately your choice, but this will just make you like Cazador. Is that what you really want?" "No, not really." "Then lets put an end to this... and then we can finish what we started." While he does seem to be more evil, ultimately I think it's just a matter of having freedom over actual power
Sadly, this was the only Astarion ending available for me in my first playthrough. I kept reloading and trying other options, but because of my previous decisions I was locked into either killing him or him abandoning the party. It was rough. I genuinely don't know how to get a different ending on my next run, but I hope I do. I'd like to see him in the epilogue.
Yes just had that😢 unfortunately in my first run he doesn't get over the "neutral" feelings towards my girl 😂 and then this scene happened and he basically spit in ma face. 1st I was like, should I reload and try again? But damn I just ended the 8th attempt of cazador fight, and I forgot to save after 😢 so Astarion vanished and I was like "oh, well'😅. I'm trying to romance him in the next run, my chara is now just way too nice 😅
i think these play out the same way regardless of if youre romancing him or not, from what ive read the only difference is that if youre not romancing him its easier to persuade him to stay a spawn (you cant ask him what he needs help with though you must pick another option). i havent checked if this is true yet because ive romanced him in all my playthroughs haha
On my first run i stopped the ritual, i wanted to go with it because its what hes been begging for.. But Karlach kept pleading him to stop and it got to me to stop the ritual.. i killed him and god i balled my eyes out. I decided to reload and tried to side with him, god, that was another moment i balled my eyes out, When he Ascended the change was immedietly, He spoke to me in this horrible way, i missed Astarions sweet way of speaking, the effection in his tone, Ascended Astarion treated me like property and even called me something horrible when i didnt like how he called me as ¨pet¨ and asked him not to. I believed he said ¨it was a joke you humerless wrench¨, He pressured me to be a vampire even though i clearly didnt want it, but i went through assuming he would relax and change, Nope, he had the same nasty attitude.. breaking up was hard..and it was just me balling the whole time because in my mind: i wanted him to ascende so he could enjoy daylight and live a normal life after this whole brain thing was over, i didnt care that hed have power or be a real vampire, i just wanted him to keep enjoying the color and have him live as a human again..or close to that..
Its what he wanted and i just wanted to give it to him.. I failed the insight and god i felt like a garbage person
I never got this ending? How does one get this
(I was even low relationship with astarion and he never gave me an ultimatum of "help me ascend or i'll just leave forever")
In my playthrough I let him complete the ritual and have everything he ever wanted. And then when the monster hunters showed up I sided with them and killed him 😂 Thus killing every vampire in the city (all vampires consumed through the ritual and then finally Astarion)
Does he come back at the epilogue after this or is he gone for good?
This really makes me wonder what ending is better for him.
This is just if we fail the check. When we save him from this ritual he is very thankful afterwards. Ascending is not what he really wants. Seems to be that we also get +3 approvel when we save him from ascending and nothing if we help him to ascend. :')
Apparently, if you play as him or you let him go in alone to fight Cazador (leave your Tav outside), he'll choose not to ascend all on his own. You also get some unique dialogue. Just watched a video on it. The approval from not ascending, the thanks you get from him for talking him out of it, and how he acts when he's alone is all proof that ascension is not the best path for him. Personally, I think he only ever wants ascension bc he thinks he'll have a better chance at protecting Tav, if you romance him or become good friends, at least. If you don't romance or become pals, then I think it could be bc he believes he'll be of more use to his allies in taking down the Absolute, etc. Just a theory, though, since there's no canonical "right choice" or reason.
@@tacklebox5374 I guess he can't because he needs someone to look at his back to do it.
@@tacklebox5374 yeah he needs assistance to ascend, he cant do it on his own. if he cant get help of course he wont be able to ascend so its not technicaly a choice he can make.
The better ending for him is one that works better for *your* story and what resonates with you more.
For me, it's the Ascendant, but the majority in the community will throw rotten tomatoes at me because they consider it "bad". Pick whatever ending works well for your romance and character.
If you want a tragic Mayfly-December romance - pick Spawn, if you play as villainous character and want a Dracula/Brides dynamics - go with Ascendant.
There is no "best" ending.
*SPOILERS*
i got this scene in one of my run, i figured that's because all the sacrificial lamb is still up and i tried killing all of them
i got better ending for him, no romance
not sure what triggered this scene and another tho
God, the weird censoring boob-tape for streamer settings is so weird. They should have just gone canon 5E and not let non-Drow Elves have any secondary sexual characteristics including boobs.
To deny him ascension is to condem him to the dark forever. I undesrtand him, what good is it being a cool guy in the darkness? I'd rather be a dick like he is after ascension and being able to walk in the sun. He is still our friend, i cant deny him that.
Does he still say "i hope you die screaming" if you romance him?
I’m very confused. How did I easily convince my Astarion to be a better person? Is it that you have to always tell him from the start that more power shouldn’t be the goal? My first playthrough was extremely noble.
If you choose to ask what you could help him with the game will lock you into this or letting him ascend, but if you choose to persuade him from the start then its fine
@@covertgoblin Okay so in times where he blusters you would need to say “maybe” or “sure, I’ll help” sort of thing? I just want to avoid this because he’s my second favourite.
@@JamesCourse66you should select any option that is not "all right what do you need" (as seen at the start of this video) because this is the one that will trigger this scene and will lock you into ascension/him leaving. Im not sure if "im not doing this" is safe to pick so 2 and 3 should be fine and will lead you to persuading him and ultimately into him not ascending if you succeed (this is from my run where i romanced him so idk, if youre not romancing him then its probably easier)
28 STAB WOUNDS, YOU DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE HIM A CHANCE, HUH!?
DID YOU FEEL ANGER!?
HATE!?
HE WAS BLEEDING, BEGGIN YOU FOR MERCY, BUT YOU STABBED HIM, AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN!!!
My durge last night freed herself from Bhaal then went to help Astarion. She ended up allowing him to ascend because she felt that letting thousands of feral spawn into the world would be too dangerous and she wanted him to be free. She failed her insight check so she felt that ascension was the best option, not to mention his pleading combined with her curiosity over-rode her common sense to tell him no or convince him otherwise.
But, she's now his vampiric consort so....
Wait, you don't have to kill him for being an aberration upon discovering his monster status?
Ok, officially glad I helped him ascend. The guilt would have killed me if I chose otherwise.
It's still a bad idea to let him ascend. Lol. This ending is only if you play along with his initial attempts to ascend- if you tell him from the get-go that ascending is a terrible idea, he's thankful that you didn't let him do it- that you reminded him that he was good enough as he was.
You should be able to have the option to persuade him not to do it... and he gets kinda bummed but then gets a moment of clarity later, and thanks for your profusely for it.
@@Call-me-CreedsIn that chamber he was essentially "under the influence". Of power. Almost like on drugs. He wasn't himself. So while he wasn't happy about the refusal of help at first he was once he was himself again.
@@DM-nw5lu Yeah... that's why it takes him a bit to get clarity and calm down for him to thank you.
I don’t know if I’m twisted or what. There’s just never a play thru that I’ll ever choose to not ascend astarion, for lore and for gameplay wise. (Outside of finding out what happens if you choose to not let him do the ritual)
Yeah, you probably are a bit. But hey we all are in our own ways. Just not necessarily all in the forsake-the-last-shreds-of-astarions-humanity-for-that-sweet-ascended-bite-and-neucrotic-1d10 type of twisted.
@@DM-nw5lu last shreds of humanity? You would let loose 1000 starved spawns upon the world? Each spawn kills 1 person that’s 1000 people. Only half kill people? That’s 500 people. Vs killing spawns who were already thought to be dead… way tough choice. He legit gains nothing for not acceding. He loses everything…. You’re wild lmfao
@@TH-fu1qn He is himself and free. Capable of love and kindness. Ascended he's still just a slave. A slave to power. And we don't know if they kill anyone. They went into the underdark. Astarion didn't kill anyone to feed on after turning into a spawn. Entirely possible neither will they with the help of the other spawn (including Astarion). So nothing wild about it. Ascended Astarion is power hungry to no end. Who knows now many more spawn he will turn and how many innocents he'll kill to subjugate all of Faerun. Likely more than the spawn have the potential to kill in the underdark.
Pointless thematics, you’re not accounting for the life’s lost by allowing the spawns to live.
You’re trying to romanticize someone who was abused over the course of several centuries. Truly caring about him as a person would be allowing him to heal by letting him feel powerful. Letting him making his own choices. Which the entire Game Center’s his personality around, him making his own decisions. We support him the most by allowing him to make that decision himself. Taking upon ourselves to decided what’s best for him and the world is the selfish in itself.
@@DM-nw5lu you can literally talk to the spawns after in the sewers. It’s very easy to deduce they will kill over the course of their extremely long and “hungry life”. What does astarian gain by ascending? Oh that’s right he gains the ability to not be controlled by the hunger that drives him the entire game Lul.
Lol I stopped the ritual and killed Astarion. I honestly thought it was a really fun moment. I wanted to see if he'd stop on his own when it was clear he wasn't gonna stop I realized he was just an evil vampire manipulating me with his charm the entire time!
Bro na you just did an oopsie on his quest. He was just overwhelmed by the blood and fear and ascending isn't really what he wanted wich is shown by convincing him to stop gives approval.
@@namethefifth7315 lol didn't look like that to me! Looked like he was becoming evil...
@@alanmark8452 Fun fact: If you send him in without Tav he does not ask any companion to lend him their eyes and chooses to stop the ritual and free the spawn. If Tav is there whether or not he does it depends entirely on what Tav does. But yeah, he approves if you talk him out of it and then also thanks you genuinely after. In the ritual chamber it was almost like he was high on power and fear and not himself.
@@DM-nw5lu lol alas....my Astarion is dead in a pit somewhere after I telekinesised him into the abyss with all the stuff i gave him....
@@alanmark8452I'm a hoe for loot. I never push/telikinesise people into chasm therefore. So in my eyes that was just a stupid decision on our end :p
My hoarder tendencies are also probably why my runs are always so long... no crate stays untouched. If they ever fill up vases with loot in a future patch I'm doomed.
This was the exact moment I cemented my opinion on fucking hating Astarion. Never give him agency, he’ll just make the wrong choices.
ive never seen this these scenes as im way too much of a bro to astarion and un doing a femstarion run and if she wants my help well how the hell am i going to say no to such a beautiful girlfriend lol.
Ascension is the only good ending for Astrion.
no, it isn't. it's actually literally the opposite, in that it's the evil ending
How? He is back to being a slave. A slave to power. And he no longer is capable of love. Just of obsession and possession. Even the writers said ascending him is the bad ending.
@@DM-nw5lu Power is the good ending.