RANT: I HATE THE INTEL 13th GEN MEMORY CONTROLLER
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- Опубликовано: 19 мар 2023
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#overclocking #ddr5 #intel 
Наука
I grew my hair back after I quit memory overclocking as a hobby. Went from a Norwood 3 to Norwood 1. My blood pressure is down to manageable levels too.
Can't believe I've been throwing my money down the drain on Propecia and Minoxidil when quitting overclocking would have been the ultimate hair loss cure all along!
…aaand you instead decided to meme on or (much worse even) buy bored ape yacht club NFTs.
No stress like moe, more happy life!
Same🎉🎉 i feel free now :)
why worry over cheap Taiwanese and Chinese crap lol.
8 motherboards
3 CPUs
3 Hynix A-die memory kits
Absolute hell with every single combination if you decide to push them.
Are there even eight 2 dim z790 boards because I don't think this type of overclock makes sense on 4 dim board. Z690 unify could work also but still from 690 lineup
@@metroplextitan8816 no, there are only 4
@@metroplextitan8816 the 4dimmers are hell at 7200
Z790 Apex
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking I know that extremely well when I built my wife's pc tforce 7200 wouldn't even post on z790 hero let alone pass stress tests
You're doing it wrong. You're supposed to run a couple of tests for 2 minutes, then blame software for being buggy when it crashes!
The average PC enthusiast does seem to assume that if it POSTs, it's stable.
@@GhostMotley and if it doesn't, the BIOS is crap and needs a hotfix, the hardware sux or [at best] they lost the silicone lottery 🤣
@@ChrispyNut I see people all over Twitter/Reddit/other forums claiming they are running DDR5-8400+ stable, some even claim DDR5-9000+ stable.
Would suspect they are likely lying or they aren't stress testing the RAM hard enough or long enough.
@@GhostMotley Considering most people don't even realize memory in general can have silent memory errors and even attempt to correct it many times a day...
I'm gonna guess most people don't understand what perfect system stability looks like and how to test it
I think Intel is binning too much for the 13900ks. No memory worked until I switched to the ks from the k.
Finally a realistic reaction to unstable memory overclocking.
Crazy man yells at a piece of silicon for an hour (love it, though)
... and instantly enjoys it
It's a therapy session. I feel him. I remember when I tried to overclock DDR4 on X99 when it came out. Lost my sanity for months. When I upgraded from that system to the Z390, I didn't even want to overclock the memory. I just set the XMP and forget it...
Man, I've been trying for 4 days to get DDR5 7200 working on my 13900k on a MSI Z690a.
I've been experiencing the exact same insanity as you where after dialing in sweet spot voltages, VST will increase and increase in stable duration until all the sudden it hits a brick wall.
Then I change 0.05V and it fails instantly.
Im starting to believe that DDR5 on 13th Gen has numerous local minima of voltages which sort of work. Which is hell for optimization.
In other words 1.35 cpuVDD2 and 1.45 cpu VDDQ work well, but then nearby voltages don't work at all.
But then 1.41cpu VDD2 and 1.53VDDQ also work pretty well, but 1.42 or 1.4 throws errors in seconds.
Have you tried increasing Vpp voltage? I was wondering if that has an impact on stability. I hit a wall with 4x16gb corsair 5600 vengeance on a msi z690 torpedo ekx with 13700k at 5600. Finally managed to get to 5866 by upping Vpp on ram and passed testmem5
@@darkon81c @darkon81c Yeah man, trust me I tried everything.
I basically scoured Buildzoid's entire z690 z790 videos and tried everything I saw he ever touched, and then touched stuff that he didn't touch.
Vccin, Vpp, PLL voltages. Raised cpu vcore, reduced ring clock, tried different LLC settings.
Later I even got crazy and started messing with DRAM voltage switching frequencies and like I mentioned, I found a couple random sweet spots which could pass 2 or 3 iterations of VST with switching frequency raised.
About the only thing I didn't try was changing cpu mounting pressure or cooler mounting pressure, but I'm just done with the headache of testing and validating whether or not it actually does anything or if I just randomly get lucky.
Like BZ said, it would randomly be semi stable(pass VST for a few iterations, and do so again when I try again without restarting), then after a few restarts or the next day I would load the EXACT SAME settings and they would just not work.
Update: On 7000MHz, just had it pass 100 iterations of VST, and 400% hci memtest.
Then restarted and it crashed instantly when I tried it the next morning.
@@0sm1um76MSI z690a is a trash board
@@0sm1um76had vst run for 3 hrs. Then had prime 95 go for 24hrs on both cpu and memory stress tests. Then I updated my bios and nothing is stable
"rant" in the title of a one-hour video.
Man, this is gonna be good
"what the alignment of the sun and moon is right now" LMAO!!! 😆🤣
In general usage there is no issue but When i play some games like doom eternal pc suddenly freeze and buzzing sound appear .or alt tabbing when i am in game .cant control anything and ı have to do hard reset. Then i have started testing on prime 95 blend test pc freeze again.seperately tested each one passed except memory controller freeze again if it is because of this what should i do should i change my mobo or cpu i dont even know can you help me ?
My system
Msi pro z690a wifi mobo
i5 12600k
Asus rtx 3080
850w ttake psu
Samsung pro ssd
By the way thermals
For cpu 61 max
Gpu 66
Hey Buildzoid. Can you test Latencymon on one of your z790 systems? I am finding I cannot run it without a system clock watchdog blue screen or just total system freeze.. on multiple mobos AND sticks of memory at stock stettings.
How would DDR5 with ddr4 ish frequencies but tightly tuned timings run?
Would it scale like that?
for example on ryzen 7000, instead of tuning 6000cl32 whatever, how about 3600cl12?(14?)
is that doable? especially when flck runs 1:1.
No, I think BZ mentioned that CAS latency is 26 at its lowest for DDR5
Intel memory controler's haunted.
This is where the fun begins
It's not cursed. It's just RNG on it's stability. Every time you ask it to do something it rolls a d200 and if it lands on 200 it crashes.
As an Intel engineer I can confirm this is correct. The reason we were stuck on 14nm for so long was because we couldn't find smaller dice.
@@DigitalJedi Nice
Have you tried a contact frame for 13th Gen? Kind of need it to ensure solid contact?
This is exactly what i've found. It's is basically impossible to say that a 13Th gen platform is stable.
it's random and got me crazy for months...
i've tested
7 13900k
3 13900ks
3 PSU
4 MB
and.... 9 ddr5 kit.
A 10900k with CL14 memory is much snappier than any DDR5 kit. You can not only see it but feel it. lol. I went from 45ns with a 10900k to 64 ns with this DDR5 Kit with the 13700KF. My benchmarks went down instead of up with DDR4 CL14 memory 3400 (interconnect at full speed stable) where as the DDR5 with the 13700KF I am stuck at half the interconnect speed causing much higher latency.
@@benjy117 it's always the same thing.
a new tech in the early stage "aka for early adopters" is overpriced and not good at all at least for 2/3 gen.
Ddr5 is a scam. CPU memory controller can't handle it. A waste of money.
@@benjy117Tech Yes City seems to confirm this in his latest videos. He says he's noticing weird lag in Windows and his video editor with 13900k that wasn't there with 10900k.
its not @@benjy117
Love your content. Friend and myself both have almost identical setups and we maxed out at 7800 with the tightest timings we could manage on a z790 maximus hero. 8000 was impossible to stabilize. Same experience. Personally I was never able to get anything above 7400 stable until I purchased a 13900ks. I suppose the memory controller on the ks is indirectly binned because of the seeming correlation between the p core SP score and the strength of the memory controller, but who really knows. I also had to purchase custom heat sinks for the ram to keep it cool enough to remain stable with high trefi timing.
thank you for this post. im running a i7 13700k (with hero z790) and stable at @7400, but @7600 it falls of a cliff. my ram is simply too fancy for my cpu chip. Z5 trident, its rated at 7800 at 1.45v 36... i guess there is maybe some tiny room left on the timings. but the frequency seems borked at these speeds. cant run any faster than this. Seems like what you say is happening. I read another update from a person that tested allot 13900k chips. They found 1/15 runs 7800 or 7800+. So 1 in 15!!! I guess ks chips are nicer. Lol. Ill be fine at 7400 for now. Just happy its stable.
@@Ks-zz9lh yeah absolutely. You'll gain more from tightening the timings than increasing the frequency but 7800 is possible with a very very select handful of motherboards. The ONLY board I know of that consistently hits 8000+ is the z790 apex.
I'd also HIGHLY recommend you do NOT run an I9 wide open on stress tests like linpak. I degraded my own 13900k screwing around and I found out. Didn't take months, or weeks or even days. It took 5 hours running aida64 extreme at 290w and from that point forward, I had to use 1.35v on the vcore to stabilize the CPU @ 5.6ghz where as before it was stable at 1.28v. Almost NOBODY is going to tell you this, but truly, watch the the wattage at extended periods. Strongly recommend you keep it under 300w
@@Unobserved07 holy moly that is a horror story of its own..
I stay away from p95, linpack, etc.. those ultra heavy things I'd never see in real life usage.. but that quick deterioration is crazy considering the voltage you mentioned to start isn't even that high. Does gaming with a 13900 ever get that high wattage? If you overclock and are at like 1.3v on an overclock, and play games for like 8 hours... that gonna degrade?
By restraining it, would that mean keeping your overclock settings but just limiting its power limit settings to like 253w?
@@Unobserved07so are you saying simply running 300+ W for extended periods by itself degrades the CPU? Even if the temps are kept in control? Or is it just because 300W usually means insane heat?
@bulldzoid, i know this is very dumb but that's why we are here.
So how good or bad would be true ECC memory be to overclock? My rational is that very good ECC memory should beat non ECC if all is equal (what will not be) be higher overclockable because of the extra die and ECC feature, so it can easily correct single bit flips and even double bit flips with extra latency, also ECC memory makes it easy for the os to count errors without needing to stress test and long term, so did you try overclocking ECC ram and how well did it work?
Thank you. That video pushed me into the right direction. Tried 3 days to get my 7800 mhz a-dies to work. Same experience with random success, fails etc wirhout changing anything. Then tried your adviced and went down to 6600mhz but with cl30-38-38-28. Reduced latency massively compared to my old 6.6/c32 corsair kit, raised bandwith by 10% and it is reproduceable rockstable. 14700kf/z790-e strix/TG Delta 7800 2x16
I noticed my OC is stable until the memory hits 50c+ then it starts to error. Have you watched or noticed the errors In relation to temps?
What I've found is that you can find meta-stable VCCSA/IMC VDD2 settings that will randomly break and that a truly stable configuration will be completely different. E.g (1.2 VCCSA/1.5VDD2 metastable, but 1.0 VCCSA/1.4VDD2 stable @7200 dual-rank)
Buildzoid, what's your thoughts 13gen with ddr4? I'm running a 13700kf with 3200 Cl14 Samsung b-die and it's actually and using your videos has helped heaps to make the system faster 👍🦅
Hi, I'm currently moving from FX8350 to AM5 socket (it's about time), slowly buying parts and the biggest dilemma I've got is which motherboard should I get. I want it to be future proof with pcie 5.0 and have ability to overclock in the furure without spending fortune and problem I've got is with power stages. How big of a difference will I have in couple of years with 12+2 vs 16+2. Im thinking about Asus Rog Strix B650E E vs F.
It doest matter if you have 12+2 or 16+2 phase. I am running an undervolted 7950X with 12+2(MSI b650 Mag Mortar) and vrm temps are fine. I get it you want to overclock but you dont need overclock these nowadays. It need undervolt because if you dont it will throttling at 95 degree c and you get least perf. bios still need to mature, 7000 series still a beta test...dont expect 6000MHz memory stable with the latest beta bios... If you want good price/perf get an AM4 platform with 5800X3D and call it a day. I would not buy AM5 for Pcie 5.0 and 7000 is expensive and still need to mature.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that was going crazy trying to achieve higher memory DDR5 speeds.
I also experienced the randomness of DDR5 stability.
Hey Mate! Thanks so much for this video! I've been pulling my hair out with my Z790 Aorus Master and i9-13900k. I've been running Corsair 6200 C36 kit 2x16GB for some time. XMP was working fine and I had it OC-ed to stable 6600 34-39-39-38 @1.35V.
It's been running like this for half a year. Now it suddenly stopped working, shortly after installing newest firmware for the mobo (to fix vulnerability). The kit still works at JEDEC spec, but the XMP profile or anything fails mem training. I've been trying to downgrade uefi, but it didn't help. Kit doesn't work outside JEDEC spec. I am now trying G.Skill 7800 36-46-46-125 @ 1.45V. I suspected it might not work and I was correct. The XMP runs Windows only, even memtest fails. I am now trying to tune it at 7200 but I still struggle to get it working stable.
Your video has explained all my issues with system working stable and then after reboot failing same tests it has passed. It is so goddamn inconsistent. It runs for hours, all tests done. Then after power cycle it crashes first minute of memtest!
Thanks for your constant work!
What were your vddq, vdd2, vccsa, dram, dram vddq voltages?
Great video's love the deep dive, one of the few channels that actually have street cred with components. I can tell your pissed when the "kermit" voice rears its head - its all good. Thanks for the great content!
Did you try all the doom codes?
Do you initially test everything stock the same way you do when oced? Just to take the parts and their flaws out of the equation?
Well I mean he did admit to using 3 CPU’s and 3 kits of ram and 5+ motherboards. It’s not hardware failure in the traditional sense.
Damn. Imagine paying top dollar for not just pretty expensive CPUs, but especially expensive RAM and MB just to be met with perpetual instability. Wow
I wonder if the intel 13900k and 14900k issues cropping up are related. I saw someone post that they often see discoloration on the mem controller contact pads likely csused by heat.
What the 13th gen memory controller like with ddr4 buildzoid?
I don’t know if that can help ! Been trying to stabilize 6000mhz (4dims) coming from 5600mhz kingston (sk hynix) and for some reason once i f* up the voltage and it crashes, coming back to THE EXACT SAME settings that used to work no longer work UNLESS i reset the bios :))))) lol
I’m using a 13700k paired to a Z690 aorus elite ax
does the12th imc suffer from the same issues?
Did you also try direct die cooling ?
This happens regarthless enabled E cores or not ?
To the mounting pressure affect amd too? i believe am5 bracket affect my memory oc
I have the Z690 Unify-X and a 12900K with some somewhat tuned 6400Mhz... I was considering getting the 13900K to push the memory further, but I wasn't sure if I needed a Z790 mobo. After this video tho, it seems like chasing the dragon. Do you need a Z790 to approach 7200?
My 12900ks on the Asus Z690 Hero will run 7200 passing HCI to 100%
I'm running 7600c32 on the unify-x with a-die. 8000 boots and can sometimes pass some things, but beyond 7600 it runs into the same instability that Buildzoid is experiencing.
yes
good question. I'm in a similar position: Z690 Carbon w/i9-12900 , intending to upgrade to 13900K but don't know if the mobo will handle higher RAM speeds. At least there'd be the extra performance from 8 more E-cores...
Unify X can do 7200+ how much more than 7200 depends entirely on luck with your CPU's IMC
Ok now that I have watched the video, and I really want DDR5 for some reason, can you make a video for recommended 6800 timings? I am not a hardcore guy, just want some timings to plug into my future Intel system.
Is it possible that this is a side effect of it being ecc?
I knew going DDR5 this early was gonna be a hassle. 13700K with vipers 4000CL19 at 4200CL16.
How tight did you make the tertiaries? If I play with any of them, it ruins my reg in bf4 😒
DDR5 8000 stable is about as real as 2000-2133 FCLK stable on Zen 3. People just don't stress test very thoroughly.
ON non-APU and not 5500 specifically of all Zen 3's. Zen 3 APU's can hit 2300 FCLK stable unlike CPU's - somewhere in 1900-2000 range
About as stable as 1700 FCLK on Zen1
Zen3 APUs can shoot beyond 2500 stable that just needs dumb levels of VSoC. Zen1 can almost touch 2000 but it has to be very certain RAM, board (not every cheap bucket fits) and lucky silicon
@@previousslayer 2500 FCLK with iGPU running or iGPU disabled?
madness is not when you do that same thing over and over and expect different results, madness is when you do the same thing over and over and do get different results! thanks intel!
Can 12900k handle xmp 7600mhz ? On z790
this actually make me remember the bad 12900k / ks vs the great 12600k that you had in some vid
how long does it take to crash running XMP?
depending on the board and XMP. Anywhere from 10 seconds to 12hours.
I've had similar issues with my 13900ks with mounting pressure. I put on a contact frame and oh man..... i had to remount 5-6 times with different levels of torque on the frame and cooler to get decent timings and the stability can change day by day. absolute nightmare and i can't even tell if the IMC bin on my CPU is trash, my MB is trash or my ram is trash because i'm getting random errors no matter what I try
I’m curious as to what speed that matters at? I’m not an ocerclocker I just want to know for reference and buying decisions. You say right timings but do you mean at any speed or 7200 plus?
@@nathanwhite617 7200 is very very difficult to again in my experience with a 4 dimm motherboard.
If you're not buying a board specifically meant for ram OCing(more than $250), 7200 will take you days probably.
That being said, 7000 could be easy or hard depending on silicon lottery luck.
I don't know this for sure(this is speculation on my part having used 1 cpu, 2 ram kits, and 2 boards), but based on my experience I feel 6800 should be attainable for most systems as long as you get M die.
YES HOW THE HELL DO WE FIGURE THIS OUT? My main dev machine kept having random crashes of all types of software and I looked into it - spend all this time testing RAM and I wasn't even trying to overclock it Just run it at 3600. I ran 128 GB fine at 4400 but when the degradation finally reached a critical point I had to wipe everything. Now I can't even reinstall anything until I figure out why I'm getting errors on a fresh installed windows (from a clean windowsUSB made another computer)
I moved out away from my kids so I could build this and now I'm f****** stuck in the water. And I don't have the money to just replace the motherboard CPU and RAM and then sort it out later
Thank you for being the guinea pig for arrow lake
I know this is kinda old but how tight did you end up mounting the contact frame?
I had a similar issue with my old z690 and 12900k... changed out my board haven't had this issue since... one day it would be fine next time i did tweaking id get errors on the same settings... went with the unify x from msi and all my random instabilities went away now i can leave test mem 5... and prime 95 small ffts on for long peroids... before it would bsod on most stress tests or throw up errors.. honestly i think its a motherboard issue i could throw insane voltages at it and still couldn't get the ram fully stable... or it wouldn't throw up errors for a week then they would return... i was pulling my hair out just like you are haha... its worth you trying the apex z790 or unify z790... (if you are already one one ignore me) the unify x boards from msi are great for getting ram stable on intel.
My 8,000 speed GSkill DDR5 memory kit is working on my ASUS Apex Z790 Mobo, pared with the 13900K. Didn’t have to do anything but have the latest Bios and apply XMP profile and that’s it. I do have a Fan mounted over the top of the 2 dim sticks running at 1,000RPM. I have a Gen 5 NVME also that can get quite toasty too so I mounted another fan blowing on that even though it has a double sided heatsink. I think I’m going to eventually get me a Chiller and start water blocking the CPU and GPU on any future PC builds. It’s the way to go unless these chip makers start delivering cooler running CPUs.
Considering the data rate of ddr5 its very possible the motherboard manufacturers are doing an abysmal job on the board layout. Do motherboards usually spec highest ddr rate? Or provide data on their own certification of those paths?
Boot - to - boot stability is something that needs to be confirmed with ddr5, and extreme cases confirming it even with cmos reset to apply the same profile.
Signal integrity changes from boot to boot/cold boot, and all of those little things on an electrical level change. I experienced the same thing trying to stabilize simply XMP. Pass Tm5, Vst, Vt3, 2.5b, over and over. Shut down and boot the next day? Error.
The closest ive been so far is by actually reducing the voltages below xmp, and that yielded a series of boot, pass, shut down, wait hours, boot, pass. 3 times over.
Based and overclocking pilled
are those benchmarking softwares free?
There are free versions.
Your desktop background has me dying xD
Apparently the Final Fantasy XIV (specifically with VR mod in mind) is a potentially nice memory benchmark (it seems to scale with cpu and ram speed very well). Just throwing it out there, I haven't tested yet if it's just latency or bandwidth matters too.
Thing with the vr mod is dropping fps below double the refresh rate of the headset causes severe stutters so even a small difference can act like a pass/fail test there.
Final Fantasy XIV is not benchmark is way of life
Love seeing this game everywhere
I totally feel your pain. Got exactly the same issue with DR 2x32GB at 7200C30 on apex z790. Some reboots no VST or MT5 issues other times it just errors instantly. I think the training on the edge is super inconsistent when it comes to ODT but on the apex there's no way to see what the values being set are :(
Does it run okay at like 7000C34? I’ve been considering changing up motherboards to a 2 DIMM.
I’m running Z790 Strix E with 2x32GB at 6600C32 everything totally stable.
My goal is 7200C34 on an Apex but now you’ve got me doubting that.
@@bronsondixon4747 I'm sure you'd be in with a chance at getting 7200C34 but not sure it's worth an upgrade. I think it's just luck whether you have an IMC that can do the high speeds. No amount of tweaking can get you that much of a bump in extra Mhz other than switching out for another CPU (which I've done once already as 6800 wasn't even possible).
@@djangoofyork yeah, I’m probably not going to change it out.
Was considering doing an all out build with the 13900KS + Apex but I’ll just wait until Raptor Lake refresh.
is everyone locking down iol and rtl? mine will change to unstable 1 in 5 boots if i dont lock it down. im at the limit of my ddr4 tho so different memory
did you try ring 49 see if it has any impact on your long term stress test ?
I tried ring 45 and it didn't make any difference
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking arf, yeah that suck
Sounds like intel has cut out internal error correction stuff to get higher max speed out of the controller, while AMD has internal error correction that end up capping max speed? (like amd does on their infinifabric also)
And then intel has ended up with some design issue that sometimes creates random errors, that then just get passed on to the cpu.
I think this video is pretty helpful, for starters I now know that it's not worth to try stabilize anything above 7600.
VDDQ TX sweet spots extremely hard for me. I get 100% stability on all test, even TM5 for 48hrs, but cold booting fails. Too high and itll fail test in less than 20 minutes and too low and it wont cold boot. I wonder if the socket heating up afffects the CPU socket mount preasure making cold booting fussy.
Hi Buildzoid and community! Sorry for an off topic question, but because this videos is about strange behavior of Intel mc it reminded me about the other strange thing with AMD Zen 4.
I've been able to oc and stabilize my hynix m die 5600 36-38-38-38-80-118 to 6200 32-37-37-37-28-40 with tight secondary and tertiari timings (tighter or same as in your hynix guide), but I have a huge difference in read/copy and write speed in Aida64 now. 95 Gb/s write and 64 Gb/s read/copy to be presice. My CPU is 7600X, Mb is Asus Rog Strix B650E-E.
I've read almost all forums and guides, but without success. Several people said I should try tuning my Proc ODT or Rtt settings or MEM VDD(Q) (currently it's set to 1.25), but it didn't help (or I'm just really bad).
Do you have any tips or ideas? Thank you in advance!
AIDA is just a bad benchmark. The numbers it produces don't mean much of anything.
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking Wow that was quick! Thanks a lot!
So everything is fine? Is there any benchmark I can run to verify my overclocking is meaningful? Because Aida didn't show any difference in read speed between 6000 with auto timings and 6200 with tuned ones.
@@ruslan_riazantsev y-cruncher is a good indicator on terms of compute memory performance and frame time stability in games tends to see considerable improvement from tighter memory timings, so running game benchmarks is also a good way to check. For games, you probably won't see a big difference in average FPS, but 1% lows should be a little better.
@@hellraserfleshlight Thank you, it's a useful tip. I'll definitely try it!
My last experience trying to get high RAM speeds going ended with a corrupted BIOS unable to even post anymore. To my luck it was dual BIOS and i was able to flash it back but at that point i knew i dont want any more of that...
@@pcoverthink Some Gigabyte DDR3 boards just had a tendency to corrupt BIOS. Which is probably why at the time gigabyte had dual bios on pretty much every board. I haven't heard of it or seen it on any other board.
I have the z790 Godlike with a 13900K and im running 7400 34,44,44,28 along with a few other tweaked timings from your 7200 video. I cant seem to get 7600 xmp staple as of yet , but I havnt tried tweaking voltages. I use a Gskill 7600 mem kit but its a random stable thing that would run fine for hours some days and other 10 or 15 min. Also the game Returnal gets a 14fps avg boost @4k going from tuned 6000 to tuned 7000. It doubled going from 6400 to 7000 as 6400 got a 7fps boost over 6000. Grated when you going from 170 fps avg to 184 avg you dont see it unless you run the benchmark lol.
I feel you my man.
I coudn't make your timings (HWU video and your "Easily improve your DDR5 XMP's performance", both) run on my 6200 Patriot set.
And at the same time it is rock stable on 7000 with stock 7000 Patriot timings.
Now I'm thinking about droping it to 6000 and trying again...
His timings are extremely aggressive. Just leave everything default except for tREFI (don’t increase past ~15,000).
TRDRDsg = min floor 8
TWRWRsg = min floor 16
Leave the rest default. There’s no tangible difference in performance.
@@bronsondixon4747
Lowered it to 6800 and tried to tune a lil. Basically moved all timings halfway from stock to buildzoids. tREFI 32000
Stable. Will work from here.
Well, I've been saying pushing limits is waste of time since ages, because you see marginal gains if at all and it's ludicrously hard to stabilize it. I never get greedy, do to a point where it's fast to do vs where I get most of the performance gains over stock. As result, never felt like wasting time nor felt like leaving meaningful performance gains on the table, because if gains are like 1% - that's literally test to test variance - a margin of error worth gains.
Sure, for competitive overclocking the perspective is obviously different, but alse stability is not really relevant further than completing a benchmark and recording the scores.
XMP or Manual Ram Overclock?
I feel your pains, I have a z790 Strix with a I9 13th Gen & 4 DDR5 TForce 6200 chips. It will run all 4 with no XMP at 4800 no issues. But if I try XMP1 wont even post, XMP 2 will post and run for awhile and randomly 10 min or 10 hours later will become unstable lol. I'd be happy if I could just get the 6200 but haven't had time to adjust with it. Why add 4 slots if the manufactory isn't going to make them usable... "oh but one day 5 years from now it might work"
Isn't anta777's best profile absolut or did I miss something?
This must be one of the best video's on YT ever,
this kinda **** is rather relatable
You cant defeat silicon lottery.
What about creating some kind of device which will go and brute force with every possible or limited amount of tests and then output you information which configuration will work stable - yeah, I know it would take ages to test, but you could test multiple configurations at the same time or find best one with your PC.
People have talked about this forever. I recall some crude attempts but it's really just not practical. It would need to be tuned to work with specific bios, able detect boot failures then manually reset or even clear cmos. Then it would need to interpret the stress test output while simultaneously able to reset Windows if it locks up. That's assuming there's minimal logic and it's just adjusting one arbitrary value at a time which is only so helpful anyway.
So yeah, feel free to tackle that if you want.
Imo a text adventure kinda app that you run on your phone and follow instructions that it gives while OCing would be more feasible than that
I feel so vindicated, I'm on DDR4 but I've been experiencing the exact same thing pushing 2xDR 4133 Gear 1 on my 13700K. Stability tests seem to be completely random:
VST will pass for an hour and TM5 will fail in 4 minutes on the same settings
TM5 will pass 32 cycles of Absolut and VST will BSOD in 4 seconds on the same settings
TM5 will pass 32 cycles of Absolut and HCI will get 1 error at 1500%
No combinations of voltages, RTTs, etc. achieve 100% stability like I'm used to
I thought I was just doing something wrong, but I'm so glad I'm not alone. I'm ready to just daily a 99% stable system instead of 100%. Stability just seems too random to dream of 100%!
Lower to 4000mhz
I was having the same problem with 12700k + 2 DR 4266mhz... Just lowered 1 bin (4133mhz) and it is okay now... Try to lower 1 bin.
Exactly Same issue with 13700k, DR S8B, 4300/4266. You are not alone.
So what components would you recommend for a high end gaming rig today? BEcause im about ready to do a complete rig upgrade, & ima t a loss as which way to go??? i wanna build a good solid not crazy expensive but high end rig.. any recommendations would be greatly apreciated..
IE MoBo, CPU, GPU RAM????
For pure gaming, if you can wait a couple if weeks, the 7800X3D will probably be the thing to beat in the upper-mid or lower-high end, but for right now, I think the 13700K is probably the sweet spot and also generally a very good all-around CPU. For memory you'll want something Hynix based, which will be anything above 6000 with "uneven" timings (32-38-38, not 36-36-36, for example). Faster speeds will tend increasingly towards A-Die (better for Intel), especially over 6800, but Hynix is shifting all production to A-Die, so it will become more prevalent over the next few months. GPU will depend on resolution and how much you care about RT and DLSS frame generation 7900XTX and 4080 trade blows on rasterization, but the AMD card is only competitive with the 3090(ti? I forget) on RT and lacks frame generation (for now), but I don't know how good of a feature that is. I think both should be decent at even 4K, but both will absolutely rip at 1440.
buy a prebuilt and don't think too much
For every gamer I've helped, I tell them to go mid-range PC every 2 to 6 years, high end is a fomo money pit anyways. Best to upgrade the internet to fiber before anything else, even if they're on dsl they have to play sicko mode and gear up with the lowest latency peripherals on wired.
High end PCs kinda make sense if that person are winning big often from tournaments money or if they work for a business that may need this power. However for that much money is very sus, $700+ motherboard to run $255+ ram, bruh :/
Best to find used parts from current or past gen, if you don't mind.
@@compumonkeys I'm leaning towards 13700k I'm gonna keep my GPU (3090)..
It seems I have no problem listening to rants if creators aren't acting like they're not ranting.
Which (sub)timings interact the most with the graphics card, so tighten them doesn't crash after half an hour playing a game?
I can attest DDR5 stability is very random on Intel 13th Gen at XMP. I tried 4 different kits ranging from 6000 to 7200 and even tried some manual tweaks and downclocks across 4 different Asus Z790 mobos and all kits not totally stable as random WHEA or BSOD in OCCT Large Data Set Variable Test. Never happens when on auto which gimps RAM to 4800 in Gear 2.
DDR4 at XMOP and tight timings is fully stable. Even DDR4 4000 at Gear 1 is fully stable across last CPU and 4300 CL16 almost or maybe even fully stable with 1.33 VCCSA passing all tests so far.
DDR5 stability is a mess on Intel 13th Gen.
I'm simple man - I see buildzoid ranting for an hour? I say bring it on!!!
I have Intel 13700K, Asus ROG Strix z790-e, DDR5 Kingston Fury Renegate 6400 CL32. I have no overclock experience. I spent much time to overclock the memory reading guides. Run the same problem: one day tests are passed OK, next day errors come. Tired and returned to the XMP profile. Stability is much more important than additional percents of perfomance. Overall system perfomance is great anyway.
Wait, so A die max stable frequency is 7200mhz?? CL34?
Yeah, DDR5 and 13th gen are cursed.
13900k with Z790 Apex here, currently trying to get 7000 stable, because everything above 7200 causes issues 💀
And that with G.Skill 7600 sticks.
So close to selling my Apex and going back to DDR4. And my MC SP of 70 probably doesn't help here either, but still...
Yeah think a lot of it is just silicon lottery of the IMC. I bought a second 13900KS and after my first wasn't stable at 6800Mhz DR 2x32GB in my Z790 Apex. My new KS is able to do 7200Mhz but it's unstable randomly like in this video :
Framechasers is going to react to this no doubt
I shoulda made it longer to waste more of his time then
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking my man 🫡
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking Holy based
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking yeah f that guy
you mean try learn anything, he is scammer unstability king
What board are you using apex or tachyon I assume
Z790 Tachyon
Z790 DARK
Z790i EDGE
Z790 Master
Z790 Elite
Z690 Unify X
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking seems the Apex (that had like a week of availability) was the board to get this gen 😢
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking if that's the case then yeah there shouldn't be issues with mobo, that just sucks
@@sabishiihito for pure memory overclock yes, it tops the others
Yeah i feel like the apex is good this gen from some anecdotal experiences from my friend who apparently "plugged in a 7200c34 a die kit, and set it to 8000, and boom its stable"
My Kingston 7200mhz hynix kit won’t boot at any speed under 7200mhz except 6000mhz. Can’t keep it stable in OCCT pass 6-10 minutes mark. It’s been wild to say the least.
Now that is some quality ranting I haven't seen from BZ in a while. Noice!
On the LGA1700 socket being really finnicky, I thought I was going insane when I first built my ADL system. Unify X, 12700k, 5600MTs Samsung ICs, and an EK waterblock. I messed around with memory and got something stable at 6200 but CPU thermals were just unacceptable. 90c cinebench at stock. I went out and got a torque wrench and tightened the water block to exactly the specified torque (off the top of my head I think it was 0.6Nm) and suddenly it doesn't boot. JEDEC settings? Didn't boot. I wound up having to loosen the water block and finally it worked, but strangely enough once it got cold outside it stopped booting again, but if I tried a few times (and let the CPU warm up from a few failed attempts) it would run rock solid after that.
Later I installed a BIOS update and suddenly my CPU (stock everything except LLC) was using like 80mV less and my thermals were finally normal. Currently I have an issue where I cant set turbo frequency by core usage. I can set an all core frequency and I can set a per core max, but I cant do 2 at 52 and 8 at 51 or anything like that. Might be a new BIOS to fix it but I just don't feel like it anymore.
I don't understand one thing. Why don't people install the latest bios more often, especially when it comes to memory stability? I'm on a more dated platform on Z490. I have a 10850K and some samsung B-die ram. The system would refuse to boot at anything but XMP and even then some blue screens were in order. After flashing the latest bios, not only was it rock solid stable, I could tighten many timings dropping the latency by about 15ns total. Again, while being rock solid stable.
@@FOGoticus When I was doing the overclocking I made sure I always had the latest BIOS, but now that I have my daily settings dialed in it's kind of a hassle to migrate my settings to the next BIOS version, especially considering that it probably doesn't make anything faster. Sure I could update my bios and then spend 10 minutes setting all the v/f points and memory timings, but even if I can get it to turbo a single core to 52x, that's a
You’re quite correct. 8000 was totally broken on my 690 Dark as well. The 790 Apex will get you there though. It’s inexplicably good. I don’t know what ASUS did to engineer it but it’s basically sorcery.
Does z790 rog strix E. Stand a chance against 790Apex?
@@princekittipon6510No shot. And part of it is poor BIOS support. My Hero has BIOS 0008 and 0032. It’s no Apex, but these two revisions make it a respectable offering.
@@princekittipon6510 Nope. Apex is an 2-dimm board. Strix E is a 4-dimm board. Not even close in comparison.
@@OnyxReXtNIt’s not the main factor. 4-DIMM is fine if you know what you’re doing. It’s not a majorly different experience when you’re using a competent sample. Some people get absolutely godawful cursed PCBs and I feel for them. The Hero sample I got is an absolute monster tbh. It makes the 690 Tachyon I tested look foolish. Compared to my old 690 Dark it’s sort of a toss up.
@@OnyxReXtN i have g skill 6400 32-39 A die. And i dont see any difference between 8000and 6400. Why are you guys overclocking again? Im not being sarcastic. Just curious
feels bad man thx for your hard work
Is the strix Z790-E worth a damn? I'm just hoping the 6000mhz memory will remain stable.
We recently designed an AMD 7940HS system and run it at 45w, 54w, and 65watts and plugged in the 48GB DDR4-5600 DIMMs to get 96GB of memory. The memory runs at lower than 70c max temp and works great.
We then designed an Intel 13th Gen i9-13900H system running at 45w, 55w, and 64w (speed doesn't matter regarding the problem) and plugged in those same 48GB DDR5-3600 DIMMs into it and they run at over 100c, even if we slow the CPU wattage to 45w. In fact, it was over 120c and we did a BIOS update that lowered it closer to 100c.
Plugging 32GB DDR5-5600 DIMMs into the Intel motherboard lowers the temps to unver 70c. So for some reason, the BIOS is programming some register combination weirdly due to the timings is reads out of the 48GB DIMMs and just cooks the DIMMs.
Thank you for this video as we are going to use Mem TweakIt to read the register settings with the 32GB DIMMs installed and program the registers identically on the 48GB DIMMs and see if the temps come down
How capable is the memory controller of the i9-13900k/ks in DDR4? How much speed can you drive? Is a 5333mhz DDR4 kit comparable to a 7200mhz DDR5 kit?
Tuned 4000-4200 gear 1 is faster than 7200 ddr5 in games, about on par with ddr5 8000
@@cryptedvick what about Gear 2 with Hynix DJR?
@@pina3613 g2 will seriously cripple DDR4. Unless you can run g1 tuned DDR4, (and for this you need good kits) might as well just use DDR5.
@@cryptedvick I know latencies are high on Gear 2, but I think I like seeing a very high speed number on DDR4 more than actual performance. I have a 5066mhz gskill trident z royale elite kit and I don't want to change the rams, I know it was a bad idea to buy them but at that time I didn't know about overclocking. Now I just dream of seeing that XMP profile working. On 11th gen those XMP are almost impossible, just like 8000mhz on 13th gen. That's the reason I wonder if now is easier to run them.
@@pina3613 if you have that DDR4 you're sitting on a potential gold mine. You need an MSI 790 Edge - best for DDR4 OC and a 13900KS to ensure you get a 13900 with an above average IMC and you could likely tune those rams for faster gaming than any DDR5 setup, even tuned 8200. Ofc, this with g1.
44:28 got stable 7400 on z690 master with 12600k, very good board. It has magic ODT setup 60/80/160/160/80
While Unify-X + 13600k 7600 max stable with one kit of memory, but with others 7466
my 13700k is allso acting weird. passed 24 test runs of all enabled in y cruncher but still somehow get a game crash randomly and throw me on desktop. no thermal issues. thats stress testing it for 7.5 hours without problems... other times it crashed c17 but never vst.
For me it looks like tREFI is to high, did you try with 65k?
I tried 69K didn't make a difference.
It's like an unstable FCLK ratio on Ryzen 1xxx-2xxx
I remember gettings random seconds of stutters in games / training instabilities which lead to errors.
Complete waste of time, it's just easier to lower the clocks
I’m running 8200 on a 13900 KS .Z790 tachyon board.Run memtest for hours y-cruncher .All pass no problems.I also had a 13900K cpu same board and memory sticks was absolutely terrible experience same problem’s he has in this video .13900K biscuits score was 88.13900KS biscuit score 98+.Night and day difference.
8000 here same board easy really 50ns.
I think my asus prime x370 pro might be worse. Sometime i found settings that passed 400% hci memtest, but when i stopped the test my pc instantly crashed. I just gave up on going 100% stable ram, as i can see those memory tests make unrealistic conditions and making them stable doesn't mean its stable in my normal use.
I have seen too how windows 10 just doesn't like unstable memory, it is way more likely to crash due to unstable memory, even running the same game and getting same fps may crash very soon on windows 10, but run fine for even long time on windows 7.
The problem is data corruption, otherwise I wouldn't mind.
I had the same problems, it was due to the temperatures - adies simply close at a certain temperature and do what they want , I have lowered my temperatures below 40 degrees and all the problems have disappeared. - i use karhu (10.000%) & ycruncher vst @8000mhz and its stable with z790 apex
you also have an Apex. Which is the one board I haven't tested.
the z790 apex , and the evga 790 kingpin can both do this - are only limited by heat, the ram kit is rather less the problem - try to lower the temperature. good luck and have fun :)
i had no problems with the heat on my mdie kit but adies are bitchy.
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking I think it would be genuinely interesting if you just set up a little small water loop just for memory on your bench.
I think it would be worthwhile for the amount of time and energy you spend doing this lately. Doesn't have to be fancy or expensive. Just a cheap 4dimm block, some spreaders, a 120mm rad and a pump/res (and obligatory tubing/fittings).
Just a thought. You will still run into trouble of course with the god forsaken ddr5 memory controller, but it is much more manageable until the limits are really pushed.
@@newdawn005 you can't even hit more than 7000 with your m-Die so potentially you didn't even run in to the trouble BZ is ranting about.
@@OMGJL mdie ? i use 7600 gskil adie for-> 8400mhz+
Given how completely random it seems to be, I feel like this has to be a signal integrity issue tied to load transients elsewhere on the CPU, or some other secondary effect.
or maybe all these random errors, which happen everywhere, have an external cause that comes from the aether. but i am more inclined to thinking it is internal hw flaws that barely pass a Quality test. Inherent to the manufacturing node. The smaller the node the easier it flips with energetic particles.
When you benchmark or max out all 24 cores to 100%, how much power is going through the cpu? If it exceeds 125Watts it will degrade the cpu internal memory controller. It causes random ram I/O crashes, and it will also crash windows. Windows will crash randomly with a bug check, (drop to text mode and re-boots). The turbo mode is useless, as it says 253Watts for just 10milliseconds in datasheet, you may as well disable this feature. Ive seen others on you-tube posting the i913900k is too hot, The truth is, its hot because it is drawing too much power, and if its draws more than 125watts continuously it will degrade and destroy the cpu. Don't bother with an expensive cooling solution, as its not needed, reduce the power instead.