After reading many reviews and watching a lot of videos, I chose this option for my first backup power station. ruclips.net/user/postUgkxHypYDKHAN93Lp2RQpfvU_ksc70wJ00pt I was between this and a larger option that could power a wider range of items, but the price/size/capacity blend seemed right for this unit. Hasn't gotten a ton of use yet, but the build quality is solid and it charges fine via the Rockpals solar panel I purchased to pair with it. One thing to note is that the screen is optimized for a top down viewing angle, which makes sense, but this means it washes out at other angles - especially low angles. Not a huge deal, but perhaps a better option for the display could be used to provide wider viewing angles.
Here is a link I found on the Internet with a price quote of $12,400: inxeptionmarketplace-crate.inxeption.io/purl/inxeptionenergymarketplace-test-franklinwh-apower-agate-battery-system-13-6-204kwh
$10k per battery, probably $10k for installation, probably China (the cells anyway), 12 year warranty. I can’t see a good reason to get this instead of the Powerwall, *BUT* if you have an aversion to Tesla, this looks like a really cool product!
With availability beginning in TX I'm very surprised to see such extensive warranty restrictions, particularly related to temperatures. I mean things like: 1) the average annual environment temperature of the installation location does not exceed 25 degrees Celsius [77°F], and 2) the environment temperature of the installation site does not exceed 40 degrees Celsius [104°F] for more than 5% of the warranty period [18 days inside the first year, [for example],... don't exactly inspire confidence or even allow for a typical installation in some parts of TX. That's, of course, without considering the crazy cold snaps like we had last year which themselves which could be a problem in TX considering the warranty will be void if temperatures go below 0 degrees Celsius [32°F] for more than 5% of the warranty period [less than 1½ days in February, if installed February 1st]. Even with an intact warranty, a refund of actual purchase price less depreciation based on use at the time of the warranty claim (at Franklin's choice) isn't exactly guaranteeing much. I like the standard beeting 12 year warranty, but as a consumer looking at the warranty as a whole I'd rather see it be a valuable and practical warranty, rather than just a long one. I understand Franklin's desire and need to create reasonable warranty restrictions. Likewise, understand the decision to offer a 12 year warranty as a differentiator. That said, "12 years" isn't all there is to it. Personally I'd like to see product highlights, and certainly product comparisons, "highlight" these sort of restrictions and differences more prominently, to both inform consumers and encourage brand competition beyond simply slapping a larger number of "years" on their more and more restrictive warranties.
I agree with you here i read through the warranty and it just left me like WTF. Also their site is horrible for trying to get any actual technical information or pricing about their products. This seems like a first pass at a soft launch think open Beta in the gaming world. An open beta product isn't what i want when looking at battery back up for my house.
That first limitation means it is a no-sell in most of California-- like the San Joaquin Valley and probably the Inland Empire. Heck, we're in our 5th day of 9 expected days of 105+ F in a row!
That temp spec, from the data sheet: Operating Temperature Operating -4°F~122°F(-20°C~50°C), 100% condensing The storage temperature and humidity are less, more restrictive, for storage than operating temperatures at: 14°F-113F(-10°C~45°C), 95% non- condensing. Strange, I think, considering the passive cooling, that the battery is said to operate in a wider temperature range than it can be stored at. IMO, if the warranty requires that the (installation site does not exceed 40 degrees Celsius [104 Fahrenheit] for more than 5% of the warranty period that is it's "real" range. 5% is enough to be considered substantive, IMO. I mean, if they rated it for 100°C for 0.0000000000001% of the warranty period I wouldn't consider 100°C to be within it operating temperature. That should be obvious to anyone. Basically, if the temperature is outside of the warranty, or restricted by the warranty, IMO, it shouldn't be listed inside of the "operating temperature". So, by that standard a more realistic operating temperature range would be listed as something like >0°C ~
As our local power company increasingly penalizes solar users, I'm getting ready to go off grid. This sounds like the perfect solution. Best of luck !!
Let us know how we can be of service Jarrell. We would love to hear more about your experience installing batteries and how we can help. Joe has a direct line to our battery so @solarsurge is a great reference. You can also become certified to install our product at www.FranklinWH.com, click the contact us tab
Sounds like an AMAZING system. Franklin's youtube videos are a bit rough / unpolished, but they answered some questions, specifically related to the system's support of solar working off-the-grid. My concern with new companies that have systems that require cloud support, apps, etc: What if the company goes under? Will the system still function for years and years if their cloud and app go away... or will I end up with a bricked system that won't function without their cloud/app?
@@EryLemba that's great to hear, thanks! Is this posted on their site, in their docs, etc? Also, what about the app that controls the system, settings, etc? Isn't that required for the system to perform... or at least for it to be configured, etc?
@@EryLemba so, what I'm hearing and concerned about, is that no changes can be made if the cloud is unavailable for any reason. For example, a hurricane that took out the grid also took out the Internet service provider, the company folds, a remote location relying on cellular data service loses that, Franklin's cloud services provider has an interruption of service, etc.,etc., etc. I think most folks understand how it works, and likely believe that it's a foolish system to have in place. Sure, it works now and for most circumstances, but few things, and fewer consumers level things at these price points, lose so much of their functionality with the loss of the cloud. When it comes to energy products, IMO, manufacturers should be designing to support autonomy. Particularly for critical functions and settings. For new products/companies in the space this is even more critical, IMO, because (especially for privately held companies) there's not much assurance the product (and its required cloud services) will even last as long the warranty period they're offering. Without autonomy, "the risk may be greater than the potential reward", for some.
I have been waiting for a system like this that can draw power from multiple sources such as grid, solar, gen set, EV, wind etc. Do I need to reinforce my roof in order to install solar panels? My house was built in the 90's and is pretty solidly built.
I know this is late, Mojo, but probably not. I live in Texas and my house was built 1999-2000, and they did not have to reinforce my roof to do the install. My panels produced THE ENTIRE TIME they were covered with 5" of snow during Icepocalypse 2021 (and I was legit surprised by that, TBH...) I *really* want some of these home wind generators to be successful.
Informative video, nice to see a worthy addition to the battery backup space... & the generator buffer makes absolute sense. Production technical suggestion: Lock your cameras exposure level as when you move around the camera darkens and brightens the exposure based on the average light input from the scene (the video gets darker and brighter as you move).
I have the Franklin system and love it... except for their inaccurate CTs. I've found the FHP and Grid measurements to be accurate but Solar and Home measurements are inflated. So, overall a fan of Franklin but they still have some evolving to do (or my installers don't know how to configure it correctly).
I have a couple question for you I am thinking when I get my home built in columbus Ohio are you all there and also I was looking at several options I have pretty much settled on franklin for the battery system but not sure if a gate can do this but I was wanting to have everything grid tied and doing solar have a ng generator for last line back up , but I want to also add a ridgeblade wind turbine can the a gate handle all of that if not what would or is the agate stackable or parallel to do that
He's saying you don't have to get into the weeds of individual circuits. Which is true unless you want to use the load management feature. Then you'll have to bring those circuits out to connect to the aGate, right?
I really like this battery but there are limited installers in San Diego. I've contacted the Franklin Rep and am waiting to hear back, but was wondering if there might be another way to get this battery?
@Joe I am interested in a Tesla power wall or similar WITHOUT solar. I am not interested in Solar. I want to protect against our Tampa brown outs that seem relatively frequent. They are only 5-10 outages, but do disrupt my home Internet I need for work. The Internet rarely goes out, and it is the brown out power drops that force the network equipment to reboot which disrupts the outage and smart switch resets. I also want to cover a few hours of whole home power that would cover my AC. Is that something you can help me with?
@tmelander Why wouldn't putting your modem/routers on a UPS (Uninteruptible power supply) solve the problem? The best one to get to avoid ALL disruption is an Active/Active (aka Online) UPS. They work by supplying your load with clean power created by the battery (via an inverter) and simultaneously charge the battery... thus if the incoming power goes out, there is no interruption. Standby UPS's watch and engage when the UPS detects there is no wall current coming in - this usually results in a brief drop out which varies with the UPS. This might be really revealing: ruclips.net/video/m1GjtfHYhck/видео.html
This sounds really interesting. I have a grid-tied 6kW system, installed in 2014, that may need a new inverter in the next few years. I’d like to add batteries if possible for grid-down or blackout days. I’m also speccing a small house system, say 4kW, that could be off-grid with this. I’m in central México, and don’t need air conditioning but shipping might be an issue. How heavy is this system? Any rough price info you can share? Really interesting video. Thanks!
Very interesting capabilities. I'm not sure how they achieve some of them, but presuming they do, it's a unique offering. Given how much they are charging for the first battery and the "A Gate" system, I certainly hope it works very well. I won't be buying one until the technology is proven and the cost drops significantly.
Thanks Jason-we're stoked for you to keep up on the advancements. We've seen some epic installs, and are confident the Franklin product will show exceptional value in whole-home scenarios, which can be difficult and expensive with a lot of other products.
Is this home energy system reliable, that means long durability and high capacity efficient well to provide enough power to an average residential house in us? And can average American family afford this system?
The only way to stretch your fuel is to know your generator fuel efficiency to load. Can the charger pick the power consumption of the generator. For example I have a 2kw generator and the most efficient load is 1.6kw.
Jeremiah, theoretically yes they can be used with portable generators, but you should know it would not be NEC code compliant. I don't make the rules :)
We haven’t seen a clear answer on this question yet. My recommendation would be to use a fixed standby generator, or at the very least an inverter generator that puts out clean power.
Can you use solar and the Franklin battery simultaneously? Can this part with a portable generator as well? Like a few other people said, how does the price compare to other competitors? Thank you
Yes you can use both battery power and solar power simultaneously with the Franklin system. In terms of cost, it varies depending on where you are located and the installer you are using. I would budget approximately $30,000 for a full solar battery back up installation. Of course, this can be financed, so in terms of monthly payment plan for something in the range of $200-$300 per month.
Hi Kevin-we've seen hundreds of the batteries deployed across the US since the launch in April, with numbers being significantly higher if it weren't for the extended permitting process. That being said, this battery has been tested extensively with some of the most advanced R&D on the market. Keep checking back as our website is undergoing some construction and will have more test sites up for review soon.
A few questions. (1) Does this provide the same capability as enphase battery setup, in that without grid power one can use solar to feed the house directly and charge battery at same time or does everything have to go through the battery. (2) Can like enphase, can this unit provide gen power and battery power and solar power at the same time? (3) Can this battery on a cloudy day be charged by the GRID so if power goes out the full battery is available and not just get charged through solar and thus be less charged than 100%. (4) I was leaning towards enphase system with a small battery to start and later when I can afford it add more batteries. In comparing the two, where does the enphase have the advantage, or put in other terms, what would I miss out on, if going for the franklin solution......... (besides the obvious kw difference)
Unfortunately Joe will not meet with us. Because we are in Massachusetts and apparently he doesn't do installations in Massachusetts so he won't talk with us.
Is their a system were I can install the battery, use the battery throughout the day, set it to charge during none peak hours and have it kick over to grid if it went below a certain level. later I want to add solar.
How does the aGate control individual loads but yet the whole system touts that it does not need to deconstruct my circuit breaker panel to sequester my loads into the aGate? Do they replace circuit breakers with remote controlled Leviton type breakers? That would be a nifty system if one does that.
The smart circuit controls are attached to each load circuit being managed. It is basically a remote-controlled relay that communicates with the aGate over the power lines.
Looks like house battery systems are getting closer to what I need. I have two separate PV systems on my roof, a small system using Enphase Microinverters and a larger system using SolarEdge inverter and optimizers that I had installed with StorEdge as I was going to follow it up with a battery soon after. But when I found out how limiting the required critical loads panel was going to be, I put it off. Then I was going to switch to a SPAN panel to get around the critical loads panel problem. Sounds like this would negate the need for that and I would actually be able to connect both of my solar systems to this one battery system. Is that true? And is the problem of being in a hot climate affecting the warranty that was mentioned in another comment true?
Hi Nick, this system will operate upto 122F. And yes it take cares of your critical panel issue and you can have both solar connected and ready for generator tie in. Reach out to Solar surge for more!
Do you have installers in San Diego? Can you send a basic schematic of how this all ties into my main panel? You said "before your main breaker". I'm not sure how that can be possible? Thanks!
Joe says the Franklin Whole Home Battery is ineroperable, but interoperable with who. For example when used as part of an Enphase IQ 8 based system. Is this supported by the Enphase App? And whose gateway do you use when you marry them with an EnPhase based system
thats my exact question too. If you do whose monitoring app and control software do you use. Would seem crazy to throw away the Enphase supporting software just to get the Franklin back up battery. I note that you can apparently monitor and control a Tesla powerwall with the Enphase app and control boxes.
Yes that's one way to think about it. The "battery" is actually an integrated battery and inverter. The aGate is an intelligent transfer switch with the ability to control the "smart circuit" load control devices.
In essence....I wish I was as good as you at brevity.. But yes, similiar to systems you may have seen from other storage manufacturers, we've combined the Propietary Inverter and Battery Management System into the battery for an All-in-one setup, and Created a Smart Garteway with a 280 amp busbar, that allows for multiple throughput- you can do critical load, you can do full main support, whilst keeping the larger appliances in the smart circuits so they can be shut down in the event the battery is getting low, to achieve maximum control. We've seen our systems used off-grid, as well as coupled on grid with other technologies like Lumin and Span Panels for additional control. In most capacities where customer is adding larger appliances in the future, this will allow them to bypass having to do a main panel upgrade..
@@justinfranklinwh4969 I love the Enphase group of products, and am in the process of having one designed by my Texas installer right now, but I really like your Battery better than the IQ 10 battery. The Enphase control boxes and control/monitoring app are first class and I would not like to lose them. Can I use the APower in an enphase system which uses the microinverters, the combiner, and the control box. I ask this because as I understand it the control/monitoring in the Enphase set up is in the Control box....ie the network that talks to all of the rest of the system. So how do you marry a Enphase IQ8 based system with a Franklin Battery? I take it the networking stuff for Franklin is in the gateway box. The Franklin Gateway and the Enphase Control System seem to be redundant and not interoperable. Is that wrong?
One thing I never understood is why they don’t put a power wall in every apartment. I have 2 UPS’s one in my bedroom for my CPAP and one in my living room for my computer stuff.
Interesting but without specifics, it is really hard to know if this will have any impact or not. If competitive and affordable and reliable and efficient it should add a positive option to the solar mix.
@@ThomMurphy Mainly efficiencies of the system including idling efficiency. Cost of the system also ( per kWh of capability). It looks quite good at first glance. And, of course the warranty is only as good as the company behind it.
@@seniordockman2946 @Senior Dockman www.franklinwh.com/support/documents/pdf?size=2&path=FWH-Datasheet_1.pdf&title=Datasheet%28aPower%20%2B%20aGate%29%20&type=1 The spec sheet has been changing. Initaly round-trip efficiency was listed at 85%, now it says 89%. 89% is aligned with competitors, such as Enphase. (I'm curious to know why/how this change came about). Price per kWh is difficult to assess, because not every battery is offered in the exactly same capacity. That said, it seems generally the Frankin is slightly more expensive for energy storage capacity and less expensive for (peak power) capacity than some competitors, especially so in the lithium iron phosphate chemistry space. However, in continuous power (per $) some competitors are still less expensive (while loosing out in peak power capability). I haven't seen any numbers listed specifically as "idling efficiency", or anything related to the power consumption when "idling".
@@ThomMurphy Thank you for the reply. That helps. I have a Solar Edge installation with optimizers that meets less of our needs now that we mostly drive electric.Just wondering if the Franklin Solar setup would be beneficial, or if I should add an all in one off-grid system with batteries to charge the car, heat water, and run garage heat and air conditioning.
Great question! Thanks to our proprietary inverter, we actually run at a higher LRA amperage then most home batteries. Coupled with the strong throughput of the aGate, this allows you to start up appliances like well pumps, up to 4-ton ac, with just one battery and no soft starter.
@@yankabilly1963 soft starters function to lower the power drawing by extending appliance starting time. With our call proprietary inverter design we are able to built-in the soft starting function, so the benefit are share across all appliances instead of purchasing soft stater for each appliance.
I know American utility costs are representative of the actual cost + C-suite compensation to generate power (Im up here in Canada with socialist energy costs -well, actually, politicians wont increase prices cause of business). Nevertheless the cost to hook up a Generac is like north of $15k. Are prices that crazy getting it's worth buying a Generac with solar & battery?
I had the same question. I have Generac Solar Battery now. I usually run my Central A/C during the day for my house off my Solar Panels. then I run it for a few hours on the Generac Batteries till the evening/night outside temp goes down to about 77 degrees and I’ll still have enough battery power to run the house till the next day.
@@SolarSurge too many gushing reviews with no real world track record or list of deployments. The bidirectional hype is more gibberish. Almost no EVs have significant output. The new F-150 is the only real option and it’s peak is 9kW. Rivian and Tesla and GM and VW and almost zero Kia/Hyundai have it. A few new Kia have ~1kW out Have you actually installed these? Seen their production capabilities? How are field repair and parts handled? Seems like you are hyped on preproduction marketing
@@olemissjim The 9.6 kW peak output for the Intelligent Backup Power isn't inherent, I don't think (Pro Power On Board is, because that conversion is happening on board, but you can't draw all of it from one place to connect to the house anyway, so it's not really what you're talking about). Attach a bigger DC to AC converter than the Ford Charge Station Pro + Sunpower box and you should be able to get higher output because it's just pulling the DC and converting it to AC offboard. All the vehicles you mention above can output DC at far higher rates than their onboard AC V2L. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to charge their batteries and run their motors at the power they do. Nissan Leaf vehicle-to-grid/vehicle-to-building units have been installed internationally going back a decade, usually as part of utility company affiliated projects outside of Japan, but also commercially, with outputs from 5 to 10kW at the low end, but ~20 to 30 kW at the higher end (those aren't usually meant to only be used with Leafs since their largest on board battery is 62 kWh. The 30 kW ones are often mixed use for Leafs and commercial vehicles with larger packs) so higher output has certainly been done for years. If you want to see lists and studies, they are available from industry groups and academic papers. There's little actually stopping a lot of vehicles that have the most current CCS standard equipment from doing high power bi-directional (and even less for CHAdeMO) beyond cost of the ground equipment (depending on the vehicle, software updates may be needed). The hardware can do it. But at those higher power levels you're talking about the level of equipment needed for a low speed DC charger, and those are in the four or low five figure prices, which there isn't a lot of demand for, so the manufacturers who have offerings in that space are by and large pretty low volume with those products, and usually build them on contract for projects, not for retail, so not what you'd call mature yet (I know of at least a few that have gone out of business or been bought). Yes, it's probably cheaper to buy and install that equipment (assuming that you already have the vehicle), than buying and installing a stationary battery system with similar output, but that's still a fairly high up-front cost. The low outputs for V2L (the Kia/Hyundai/Genesis etc...) are from vehicles that are doing the DC to AC conversion on board, for which that level makes sense. The overwhelming majority of users don't want a car that costs $4,000-10,000+ more so that they can output 15 kW AC. Leave that extra cost and weight off-board for people who want to buy it separately. On board, supply what you'd get from a regular household outlet so that you can treat it like one when you plug in your devices. That's why in 220/240 V markets, they get ~3.3 kW and we get ~1.6 kW. The one exception that I know of is Lucid, which has the Wunderbox 19.6 kW on-board, bi-directional inverter standard on the Air, but it's not cheap. TLDR: Yep, it's early days, but you can get higher output inverters to work with most modern EVs if you want. It's just expensive and the distribution and installation network is in its infancy for the residential market in North America outside of some niche applications usually connected to utilities or larger companies. That looks like it's changing though. Wallbox is bringing out its CCS compatible Quasar 2 (11.5 kW bi-directional) in North America, though it's been delayed it appears. They have had operating utility attached Quasar 1 deployment in several countries in Europe for years. dcbel is reported as rolling out its CCS, CHAdeMO, and J1772 (that plug isn't bi-directional, but the DC ones are) compatible r16 (7.4 or 15.2 kW bi-directional) in New York, California, and Texas now, with the rest of the continental US next year, along with the UK and France. Fermata Energy has 15 and 20 kW units for fleets now, and homeowners next year.
I'm likely looking at AC coupled as I have 2 arrays - one SMA 5.1kW inverter, and Enphase microinverters 2.5kW. Is it possible to have electrical generation when the grid is down and this is setup? Would this gateway shutting off grid connection and then supplying it's energy from batteries trigger my SMA and Enphase microinverters to produce and think it's safe to do so (which it would be)?
@@SolarSurge neat, I figured but had to make sure no problems with much of any system. I'll get a system like this in roughly 2 years (could wait up to 7 really since I have net metering), just want a little maturation and prices to come down. It will mainly just be a backup for me anyway. Thanks
Interesting video. Unfortunately, Franklin's website is absolutely useless. No information there, just fancy over-formatting. It's about the worst website I've run into.
Kenneth, thank you for the feedback.... At this time the FranklinWH battery and gateway can only be purchased directly through certified installers, so a lot of our focus has been on the tech advancements and firmware updates..With that being said we could certainly make the user experience on our website a little more consumer friendly. I'll take this to heart and see what we can do. In the meantime, feel free to contact solar surge or myself directly.
@@justinfranklinwh4969 Justin, what is your email address to contact you directly. I tried to do that on your website but didn't find an email address. I am in Texas and in the final stages of designing the system along with my local installer.
Does it work with Generac I have 18kwh battery. i want go to 36 kwh or 54kwh or 72kwh depending on cost. Can Franklin interface with Generac solar and inverters?
Hi Kelly- This is a great question. Yes, our battery is AC-coupled and works with any AC inverter, however, I'm not 100% on connecting the previous battery to our Gateway.... I'm sure something can be done by splitting the feeds, but I will get back to you. You win the stump the teacher award. Fun Fact: You can connect up to 15 aPower at a time to just one aGate (max 204kwh), so no capacity issues here.
There's a few places reporting on price, but that price seems to be inaccurate compared to the quotes I've seen. I'm seeing the most competitive quotes from installers pricing the Franklin WH at about 38% price premium compared to an Enphase 10(T), when doing multiples and a eve more with fewer units. I like extra power offered by the Frankin and the standard 12 year warranty, but that warranty having much more restrictive temperatures and coming from a new (privately held company with undisclosed financials) makes it hard to justify the literal price premium for the storage capacity (capacity/cost). There may be situations where the FranklinWH makes sense, maybe 3 Franklin WH vs 4 Enphase 10, for example, where the price premium would be reduced to somewhere around 5%, with capacity just over 1% greater and peak power more than 30% greater (even if youd lose more than 2% in continuous power going with the 3 Franklins). That might be worthwhile for somone need more peak (short term) power. Still, it hard to imagine that even in that situation that the Franklins would be an attractive option compared to more established and potentially integrated brands. I think if they could drop their pricing about 12%, then they'd be a lot more attractive. That, or they could bump their cycle warranty up to, say, 7500 and bring their warranty temps more in line with current industry standards. If they did both they'd be a real competitive offering, IMO. If they did some sort of additional warranty offering, something like 17 years and 10000 cycles at 65% for at $500-$750, on top of those other moves, they'd likely be soaking up market share like a sponge. I think, in addition to a real pricing difference between wholesale and the reporting, right now, they're not well established and installers are unfamiliar. So, installers are likely padding pricing some to mitigate some risk. They seem to be a small startup, and likely need some additional funding to be competitive on price, logistics, marketing, etc. I hope they get what they need and are successful.
The options we are quoting most frequently are Enphase 30kWh or Franklin 27.2kWh. The 2-battery Franklin option works out to be $2k less than Enphase 30.
Probably best to ask you preferred installer, but I'm seeing something like a 38% premium for 2 of these over 2 Enphase 10T, as a very basic reference.
Nice video. 13.6 kwh is 40% of 1 gallon of gasoline. Not a lot of energy. My house thermal loads in Winter are around 300 kwh/day. That battery would last 64 minutes. Electrical loads add another 30 kwh for 333 kwh/day or 58 minutes from 100 to 0%. I need 1 month of storage or 9,990 kwh, say 10,000 kwh. At 13.6 kwh/battery, I would need 735 batteries. At 7000 each? $5.1 million. Houston we have a problem... Batteries won't work.
@@domi1kenobi My Electricity is ~ 30 kwh/day, 10,000 kwh/year. The 333 figure includes heating during cold Winter... I have a shop and 2400 sft house with a Natural gas boiler that is not super good.
Sound interesting, but I won't be fooled twice by beta hardware and software. Was sold an enphase battery system with generator tie in for battery recharge and critical load panel grid down power. Had system installed for over a year with a generator sitting in my yard doing nothing before enphase finished their beta program and rolled out the smartswitch software to allow for the generator to function. Maybe in 2-5 years and you have some experience with this 'new' system/manufacturer and also will wait for the bidirectional aspect of EV's to come to fruition. Having a 100kWH battery to draw from would give me DAYS of backup if fully charged (e.g. Ford F150 lightning). That would negate the need to by only 27kWH of battery storage and duals as a drivable vehicle.
After reading many reviews and watching a lot of videos, I chose this option for my first backup power station. ruclips.net/user/postUgkxHypYDKHAN93Lp2RQpfvU_ksc70wJ00pt I was between this and a larger option that could power a wider range of items, but the price/size/capacity blend seemed right for this unit. Hasn't gotten a ton of use yet, but the build quality is solid and it charges fine via the Rockpals solar panel I purchased to pair with it. One thing to note is that the screen is optimized for a top down viewing angle, which makes sense, but this means it washes out at other angles - especially low angles. Not a huge deal, but perhaps a better option for the display could be used to provide wider viewing angles.
He does a great job explaining the process
This might be a game changer, with the HVAC capability. Glad we're finally up to real world application.
Can you do a video about enphase. Vs. Franklin? I like what I am seeing about Franklin but they don't have much track records. Thanks
How much? Does the ease of installation translate into lower consumer cost? Where is it made? Warranty?
Good questions, solar surge should at least make pricing comparisons to other batteries if not disclosing exact pricing.
Here is a link I found on the Internet with a price quote of $12,400: inxeptionmarketplace-crate.inxeption.io/purl/inxeptionenergymarketplace-test-franklinwh-apower-agate-battery-system-13-6-204kwh
I would have liked to hear the where it’s made. Glad to see LFP batteries for homes coming out.
$10k per battery, probably $10k for installation, probably China (the cells anyway), 12 year warranty.
I can’t see a good reason to get this instead of the Powerwall, *BUT* if you have an aversion to Tesla, this looks like a really cool product!
@@American_Energy I’ll stick with Elon’s Powerwalls. Three on order. We’ll see when it all shows up.
With availability beginning in TX I'm very surprised to see such extensive warranty restrictions, particularly related to temperatures. I mean things like:
1) the average annual environment temperature of the installation location does not exceed 25 degrees Celsius [77°F], and 2) the environment temperature of the installation site does not exceed 40 degrees Celsius [104°F] for more than 5% of the warranty period [18 days inside the first year, [for example],...
don't exactly inspire confidence or even allow for a typical installation in some parts of TX. That's, of course, without considering the crazy cold snaps like we had last year which themselves which could be a problem in TX considering the warranty will be void if temperatures go below 0 degrees Celsius [32°F] for more than 5% of the warranty period [less than 1½ days in February, if installed February 1st]. Even with an intact warranty, a refund of actual purchase price less depreciation based on use at the time of the warranty claim (at Franklin's choice) isn't exactly guaranteeing much.
I like the standard beeting 12 year warranty, but as a consumer looking at the warranty as a whole I'd rather see it be a valuable and practical warranty, rather than just a long one.
I understand Franklin's desire and need to create reasonable warranty restrictions. Likewise, understand the decision to offer a 12 year warranty as a differentiator. That said, "12 years" isn't all there is to it. Personally I'd like to see product highlights, and certainly product comparisons, "highlight" these sort of restrictions and differences more prominently, to both inform consumers and encourage brand competition beyond simply slapping a larger number of "years" on their more and more restrictive warranties.
I agree with you here i read through the warranty and it just left me like WTF. Also their site is horrible for trying to get any actual technical information or pricing about their products. This seems like a first pass at a soft launch think open Beta in the gaming world. An open beta product isn't what i want when looking at battery back up for my house.
That first limitation means it is a no-sell in most of California-- like the San Joaquin Valley and probably the Inland Empire. Heck, we're in our 5th day of 9 expected days of 105+ F in a row!
That temp spec, from the data sheet:
Operating Temperature Operating -4°F~122°F(-20°C~50°C), 100% condensing
The storage temperature and humidity are less, more restrictive, for storage than operating temperatures at: 14°F-113F(-10°C~45°C), 95% non- condensing.
Strange, I think, considering the passive cooling, that the battery is said to operate in a wider temperature range than it can be stored at.
IMO, if the warranty requires that the (installation site does not exceed 40 degrees Celsius [104 Fahrenheit] for more than 5% of the warranty period that is it's "real" range. 5% is enough to be considered substantive, IMO. I mean, if they rated it for 100°C for 0.0000000000001% of the warranty period I wouldn't consider 100°C to be within it operating temperature. That should be obvious to anyone.
Basically, if the temperature is outside of the warranty, or restricted by the warranty, IMO, it shouldn't be listed inside of the "operating temperature".
So, by that standard a more realistic operating temperature range would be listed as something like >0°C ~
appreciate your clarity and compendiousness.
Thanks again Joe. Enjoyed your video. 👏👍
As our local power company increasingly penalizes solar users, I'm getting ready to go off grid.
This sounds like the perfect solution. Best of luck !!
Goodness this guy is easy to listen to. Thanks for all the great info.
Great information on this product. I love the option for charging with a gas generator.
As someone who’s installed lots of battery back ups that installation does sound pretty sweet. I’ll definitely be looking into this for my home
Let us know how we can be of service Jarrell. We would love to hear more about your experience installing batteries and how we can help. Joe has a direct line to our battery so @solarsurge is a great reference. You can also become certified to install our product at www.FranklinWH.com, click the contact us tab
How many Franklinwh batteries would you need to operate 2 4 ton ac units during an outage as well as whole home back
Sounds like an AMAZING system. Franklin's youtube videos are a bit rough / unpolished, but they answered some questions, specifically related to the system's support of solar working off-the-grid. My concern with new companies that have systems that require cloud support, apps, etc: What if the company goes under? Will the system still function for years and years if their cloud and app go away... or will I end up with a bricked system that won't function without their cloud/app?
Agreed!! 100% They should be offering direct (no cloud required) management options.
The system will perform as a standalone system, if cloud goes under, the system will remain operation per the last setting received.
@@EryLemba that's great to hear, thanks! Is this posted on their site, in their docs, etc? Also, what about the app that controls the system, settings, etc? Isn't that required for the system to perform... or at least for it to be configured, etc?
@@EryLemba so, what I'm hearing and concerned about, is that no changes can be made if the cloud is unavailable for any reason. For example, a hurricane that took out the grid also took out the Internet service provider, the company folds, a remote location relying on cellular data service loses that, Franklin's cloud services provider has an interruption of service, etc.,etc., etc.
I think most folks understand how it works, and likely believe that it's a foolish system to have in place. Sure, it works now and for most circumstances, but few things, and fewer consumers level things at these price points, lose so much of their functionality with the loss of the cloud. When it comes to energy products, IMO, manufacturers should be designing to support autonomy. Particularly for critical functions and settings. For new products/companies in the space this is even more critical, IMO, because (especially for privately held companies) there's not much assurance the product (and its required cloud services) will even last as long the warranty period they're offering. Without autonomy, "the risk may be greater than the potential reward", for some.
@@ThomMurphy during off grid situation, our aGate can act as wifi emitter and connect user account locally.
Nice presentation , thank you 👏👏👏
Great video
So those smart circuits, like what?, tie directly into sub circuits in the main panel? Or are you moving the wires from the panel into the battery?
Thanks Joe, great video!
I have been waiting for a system like this that can draw power from multiple sources such as grid, solar, gen set, EV, wind etc. Do I need to reinforce my roof in order to install solar panels? My house was built in the 90's and is pretty solidly built.
I know this is late, Mojo, but probably not. I live in Texas and my house was built 1999-2000, and they did not have to reinforce my roof to do the install.
My panels produced THE ENTIRE TIME they were covered with 5" of snow during Icepocalypse 2021 (and I was legit surprised by that, TBH...)
I *really* want some of these home wind generators to be successful.
Great info….thank you.
Informative video, nice to see a worthy addition to the battery backup space... & the generator buffer makes absolute sense.
Production technical suggestion: Lock your cameras exposure level as when you move around the camera darkens and brightens the exposure based on the average light input from the scene (the video gets darker and brighter as you move).
Hey Clark. Thanks for the feedback.
Also intro/outro levels way higher than main content
I have the Franklin system and love it... except for their inaccurate CTs. I've found the FHP and Grid measurements to be accurate but Solar and Home measurements are inflated.
So, overall a fan of Franklin but they still have some evolving to do (or my installers don't know how to configure it correctly).
I have a couple question for you I am thinking when I get my home built in columbus Ohio are you all there and also I was looking at several options I have pretty much settled on franklin for the battery system but not sure if a gate can do this but I was wanting to have everything grid tied and doing solar have a ng generator for last line back up , but I want to also add a ridgeblade wind turbine can the a gate handle all of that if not what would or is the agate stackable or parallel to do that
Very nice! Compared to powerwall this is a great option! Have the generator option is great!
He's saying you don't have to get into the weeds of individual circuits. Which is true unless you want to use the load management feature. Then you'll have to bring those circuits out to connect to the aGate, right?
That's correct. The 2 largest loads would be moved to aGate to take advantage of smart load control.
Hey Joe, is it possible for you to do a video where you compare the Franklinwh to the homegrid battery?
Will this inverter support a 110V 50 hz system in Jamaica, West Indies
what is the installation cost. could you please do a video on EG4-LifePower4 Lithium Battery
I'm not seeing any lesser installation costs reflected in the quotes I've received compared to something like the Enphase 10(T).
I really like this battery but there are limited installers in San Diego. I've contacted the Franklin Rep and am waiting to hear back, but was wondering if there might be another way to get this battery?
Gracias
How do I remove the cover to ensure that there aren’t any dust or leaves behind the cover?
I live in Alabama and feel like I'm living in the stone age here, moved back here and stuff like this is much harder to get.
@Joe I am interested in a Tesla power wall or similar WITHOUT solar. I am not interested in Solar. I want to protect against our Tampa brown outs that seem relatively frequent. They are only 5-10 outages, but do disrupt my home Internet I need for work. The Internet rarely goes out, and it is the brown out power drops that force the network equipment to reboot which disrupts the outage and smart switch resets. I also want to cover a few hours of whole home power that would cover my AC. Is that something you can help me with?
@tmelander Why wouldn't putting your modem/routers on a UPS (Uninteruptible power supply) solve the problem? The best one to get to avoid ALL disruption is an Active/Active (aka Online) UPS. They work by supplying your load with clean power created by the battery (via an inverter) and simultaneously charge the battery... thus if the incoming power goes out, there is no interruption. Standby UPS's watch and engage when the UPS detects there is no wall current coming in - this usually results in a brief drop out which varies with the UPS. This might be really revealing: ruclips.net/video/m1GjtfHYhck/видео.html
This sounds really interesting. I have a grid-tied 6kW system, installed in 2014, that may need a new inverter in the next few years. I’d like to add batteries if possible for grid-down or blackout days.
I’m also speccing a small house system, say 4kW, that could be off-grid with this. I’m in central México, and don’t need air conditioning but shipping might be an issue. How heavy is this system? Any rough price info you can share?
Really interesting video. Thanks!
How much is your batteries, cost for each one?
What does it cost and can you purchasing one if you live in Atlanta GA
Hi andrew, I'm sure @solarsurge can provide an installer in your area.
I like the shedding of the large loads, pretty cool, will it take generator input if it is AC coupled?
Yes it has for generator input at aGate. I’m getting my system installed this week and requested that the generator input be installed.
Have y'all reviewed the renogy battery
Very interesting capabilities. I'm not sure how they achieve some of them, but presuming they do, it's a unique offering. Given how much they are charging for the first battery and the "A Gate" system, I certainly hope it works very well. I won't be buying one until the technology is proven and the cost drops significantly.
Thanks Jason-we're stoked for you to keep up on the advancements. We've seen some epic installs, and are confident the Franklin product will show exceptional value in whole-home scenarios, which can be difficult and expensive with a lot of other products.
Solar and wind is what I am aiming for.
Do you install them in central Florida?
Hello solar surge team, what are your thoughts on the Mojave inverter and battery from outback and the savant power incharge by Savant?
Is this home energy system reliable, that means long durability and high capacity efficient well to provide enough power to an average residential house in us? And can average American family afford this system?
The only way to stretch your fuel is to know your generator fuel efficiency to load.
Can the charger pick the power consumption of the generator. For example I have a 2kw generator and the most efficient load is 1.6kw.
What's the cost on two battery and control gate cost. California looking at 20k solar
It depends, but ballpark $85k for the 20kW solar + 2x Franklin setup before tax credits. Please book a call for a specific quote: www.solarsurge.net
Interesting ... cost?
Thanks for the information on this new product.
Any restrictions on the generator? Specifically, can we use portable generators?
Jeremiah, theoretically yes they can be used with portable generators, but you should know it would not be NEC code compliant. I don't make the rules :)
@@justinfranklinwh4969 Thanks and understand. Even so, during an actual extended emergency, it’s a nice option to have.
@@JeremiahTownsend 100 percent feel you there.
First question ---> HM? next availability?
Can you hookup up portable generator to this system or does it have to be standby generator
We haven’t seen a clear answer on this question yet. My recommendation would be to use a fixed standby generator, or at the very least an inverter generator that puts out clean power.
@@SolarSurge thanks
Can you use solar and the Franklin battery simultaneously? Can this part with a portable generator as well? Like a few other people said, how does the price compare to other competitors? Thank you
Yes you can use both battery power and solar power simultaneously with the Franklin system. In terms of cost, it varies depending on where you are located and the installer you are using. I would budget approximately $30,000 for a full solar battery back up installation. Of course, this can be financed, so in terms of monthly payment plan for something in the range of $200-$300 per month.
Solid #review, thanks #sir 🤓.
How many installations does this company have?
Hi Kevin-we've seen hundreds of the batteries deployed across the US since the launch in April, with numbers being significantly higher if it weren't for the extended permitting process. That being said, this battery has been tested extensively with some of the most advanced R&D on the market. Keep checking back as our website is undergoing some construction and will have more test sites up for review soon.
@@justinfranklinwh4969 Yes, permitting can be interesting. I did permitting for local governments for over 20 years.
At what temperature is the battery no longer functioning… the solar edge battery’s we install are functional in weather as cold as 13 degrees
A few questions. (1) Does this provide the same capability as enphase battery setup, in that without grid power one can use solar to feed the house directly and charge battery at same time or does everything have to go through the battery. (2) Can like enphase, can this unit provide gen power and battery power and solar power at the same time? (3) Can this battery on a cloudy day be charged by the GRID so if power goes out the full battery is available and not just get charged through solar and thus be less charged than 100%.
(4) I was leaning towards enphase system with a small battery to start and later when I can afford it add more batteries. In comparing the two, where does the enphase have the advantage, or put in other terms, what would I miss out on, if going for the franklin solution......... (besides the obvious kw difference)
THIS SOUNDS GREAT! WE WOULD LOVE THIS. WHAT IS THE COST OF THIS UNIT INCLUDING THE aGATE?
Hi Kathleen, we recommend you contact solar surge directly for an appointment, and they can walk you through the pricing options-
Unfortunately Joe will not meet with us. Because we are in Massachusetts and apparently he doesn't do installations in Massachusetts so he won't talk with us.
This is great. How many charge cycles?
Hi adam, the battery has a 6000 cycle 43mwh throughput 12 year warranty.
This sounds like a great system.
Does the aGate support "island mode"?
Do you have the system available in California?
Coming very soon!
Is their a system were I can install the battery, use the battery throughout the day, set it to charge during none peak hours and have it kick over to grid if it went below a certain level. later I want to add solar.
Yes, the Franklin battery supports this operating mode. It's called time-of-use avoidance.
How does the aGate control individual loads but yet the whole system touts that it does not need to deconstruct my circuit breaker panel to sequester my loads into the aGate? Do they replace circuit breakers with remote controlled Leviton type breakers? That would be a nifty system if one does that.
The smart circuit controls are attached to each load circuit being managed. It is basically a remote-controlled relay that communicates with the aGate over the power lines.
Don’t you hate when they don’t give you a price but then ask you for a thumbs up? I do.
Hi, Any installers in Puerto Rico with this product.
Can I used with outback Inverter ?
Really good informative video especially with the graphics
Make another Franklin Whole Home Battery video please
I just recorded one on Monday. Please check back on a few days and it should be published.
Will it allow you to add wind generated power with that one
Yes, but you will need to have a separate inverter for the wind turbine
What about just a separate charge controller
Looks like house battery systems are getting closer to what I need. I have two separate PV systems on my roof, a small system using Enphase Microinverters and a larger system using SolarEdge inverter and optimizers that I had installed with StorEdge as I was going to follow it up with a battery soon after. But when I found out how limiting the required critical loads panel was going to be, I put it off. Then I was going to switch to a SPAN panel to get around the critical loads panel problem. Sounds like this would negate the need for that and I would actually be able to connect both of my solar systems to this one battery system. Is that true? And is the problem of being in a hot climate affecting the warranty that was mentioned in another comment true?
Hi Nick, this system will operate upto 122F. And yes it take cares of your critical panel issue and you can have both solar connected and ready for generator tie in. Reach out to Solar surge for more!
@@EryLemba thanks.
do a review on Homegrid with Sol-ark
You never seem to mention prices
Do you have installers in San Diego? Can you send a basic schematic of how this all ties into my main panel? You said "before your main breaker". I'm not sure how that can be possible? Thanks!
Can this unit be integrated with a fuel generator back up system to make it more efficient?
Yes, that is one of the main features.
Wouldn't a Soft Start device make it easier for ANY BBU to start the AC compressor? You can buy the ICM870 for less than $200.
Joe says the Franklin Whole Home Battery is ineroperable, but interoperable with who. For example when used as part of an Enphase IQ 8 based system. Is this supported by the Enphase App? And whose gateway do you use when you marry them with an EnPhase based system
Can you install this with an enphase micro-inverter System?
thats my exact question too. If you do whose monitoring app and control software do you use. Would seem crazy to throw away the Enphase supporting software just to get the Franklin back up battery. I note that you can apparently monitor and control a Tesla powerwall with the Enphase app and control boxes.
If dc coupled from solar panels with 1/2 cell 120 CertainTeed 365w panels
Would it be more efficient using enphaze q7 inverters
Or without inverters
The interface to this battery is all AC, so you need to have an inverter or micro-0inverters on your solar array.
Is this available in Louisiana?
How do you go about purchasing a unit
So this is essentially an inverter/battery/load-center combo?
Yes that's one way to think about it. The "battery" is actually an integrated battery and inverter. The aGate is an intelligent transfer switch with the ability to control the "smart circuit" load control devices.
In essence....I wish I was as good as you at brevity.. But yes, similiar to systems you may have seen from other storage manufacturers, we've combined the Propietary Inverter and Battery Management System into the battery for an All-in-one setup, and Created a Smart Garteway with a 280 amp busbar, that allows for multiple throughput- you can do critical load, you can do full main support, whilst keeping the larger appliances in the smart circuits so they can be shut down in the event the battery is getting low, to achieve maximum control. We've seen our systems used off-grid, as well as coupled on grid with other technologies like Lumin and Span Panels for additional control. In most capacities where customer is adding larger appliances in the future, this will allow them to bypass having to do a main panel upgrade..
@@justinfranklinwh4969 I love the Enphase group of products, and am in the process of having one designed by my Texas installer right now, but I really like your Battery better than the IQ 10 battery. The Enphase control boxes and control/monitoring app are first class and I would not like to lose them. Can I use the APower in an enphase system which uses the microinverters, the combiner, and the control box. I ask this because as I understand it the control/monitoring in the Enphase set up is in the Control box....ie the network that talks to all of the rest of the system. So how do you marry a Enphase IQ8 based system with a Franklin Battery? I take it the networking stuff for Franklin is in the gateway box. The Franklin Gateway and the Enphase Control System seem to be redundant and not interoperable. Is that wrong?
What about bigbattery KONG battery? seems like the best bang for the buck???
One thing I never understood is why they don’t put a power wall in every apartment. I have 2 UPS’s one in my bedroom for my CPAP and one in my living room for my computer stuff.
Interesting but without specifics, it is really hard to know if this will have any impact or not. If competitive and affordable and reliable and efficient it should add a positive option to the solar mix.
What specifics are you after? I've done a bit of digging and might be able to help. Most things I found on their website...
@@ThomMurphy Mainly efficiencies of the system including idling efficiency. Cost of the system also ( per kWh of capability). It looks quite good at first glance. And, of course the warranty is only as good as the company behind it.
@@ThomMurphy Strike some of that. This system allows you to use any inverter and that is a big part of the system’s efficiency. Cost and reliability.
@@seniordockman2946 @Senior Dockman www.franklinwh.com/support/documents/pdf?size=2&path=FWH-Datasheet_1.pdf&title=Datasheet%28aPower%20%2B%20aGate%29%20&type=1
The spec sheet has been changing. Initaly round-trip efficiency was listed at 85%, now it says 89%. 89% is aligned with competitors, such as Enphase. (I'm curious to know why/how this change came about).
Price per kWh is difficult to assess, because not every battery is offered in the exactly same capacity. That said, it seems generally the Frankin is slightly more expensive for energy storage capacity and less expensive for (peak power) capacity than some competitors, especially so in the lithium iron phosphate chemistry space. However, in continuous power (per $) some competitors are still less expensive (while loosing out in peak power capability).
I haven't seen any numbers listed specifically as "idling efficiency", or anything related to the power consumption when "idling".
@@ThomMurphy Thank you for the reply. That helps. I have a Solar Edge installation with optimizers that meets less of our needs now that we mostly drive electric.Just wondering if the Franklin Solar setup would be beneficial, or if I should add an all in one off-grid system with batteries to charge the car, heat water, and run garage heat and air conditioning.
If you guys want a tester in the Arizona market, I’d be more that happy to :)
Do they have a soft start for the A/C heater unit and hot water heater ?
Great question!
Thanks to our proprietary inverter, we actually run at a higher LRA amperage then most home batteries. Coupled with the strong throughput of the aGate, this allows you to start up appliances like well pumps, up to 4-ton ac, with just one battery and no soft starter.
@@justinfranklinwh4969 but even with the higher LRA amperage you can still drain more with that initial start but a soft start will even less ?
@@yankabilly1963 soft starters function to lower the power drawing by extending appliance starting time. With our call proprietary inverter design we are able to built-in the soft starting function, so the benefit are share across all appliances instead of purchasing soft stater for each appliance.
👏👏👍
I know American utility costs are representative of the actual cost + C-suite compensation to generate power (Im up here in Canada with socialist energy costs -well, actually, politicians wont increase prices cause of business). Nevertheless the cost to hook up a Generac is like north of $15k. Are prices that crazy getting it's worth buying a Generac with solar & battery?
If you want to separate loads, it seems one has to get into the power panel.
Thank you for the information. How would you compare this to a Generac pwr with 6 modules?
Good question. Generac would be the lower priced option, but Franklin gives greater power and capacity. I'll do a head-to-head comparison video soon.
I had the same question. I have Generac Solar Battery now. I usually run my Central A/C during the day for my house off my Solar Panels. then I run it for a few hours on the Generac Batteries till the evening/night outside temp goes down to about 77 degrees and I’ll still have enough battery power to run the house till the next day.
@@duanetanouye how many pwr cells?
Sorry for the late response. My Generac battery system has 5 cells and 18 LG 400 watt panels
where do I buy this system
Check with your local or regional distributor. I believe BayWa has them: www.baywa-re.com/en/
this looks great. I would love to see head-to-head Joe-scoring vs generac and tesla.
Franklin Vs Tesla video coming up shortly...
@@SolarSurge too many gushing reviews with no real world track record or list of deployments. The bidirectional hype is more gibberish. Almost no EVs have significant output. The new F-150 is the only real option and it’s peak is 9kW. Rivian and Tesla and GM and VW and almost zero Kia/Hyundai have it. A few new Kia have ~1kW out
Have you actually installed these? Seen their production capabilities? How are field repair and parts handled?
Seems like you are hyped on preproduction marketing
@@olemissjim The 9.6 kW peak output for the Intelligent Backup Power isn't inherent, I don't think (Pro Power On Board is, because that conversion is happening on board, but you can't draw all of it from one place to connect to the house anyway, so it's not really what you're talking about). Attach a bigger DC to AC converter than the Ford Charge Station Pro + Sunpower box and you should be able to get higher output because it's just pulling the DC and converting it to AC offboard. All the vehicles you mention above can output DC at far higher rates than their onboard AC V2L. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to charge their batteries and run their motors at the power they do.
Nissan Leaf vehicle-to-grid/vehicle-to-building units have been installed internationally going back a decade, usually as part of utility company affiliated projects outside of Japan, but also commercially, with outputs from 5 to 10kW at the low end, but ~20 to 30 kW at the higher end (those aren't usually meant to only be used with Leafs since their largest on board battery is 62 kWh. The 30 kW ones are often mixed use for Leafs and commercial vehicles with larger packs) so higher output has certainly been done for years. If you want to see lists and studies, they are available from industry groups and academic papers.
There's little actually stopping a lot of vehicles that have the most current CCS standard equipment from doing high power bi-directional (and even less for CHAdeMO) beyond cost of the ground equipment (depending on the vehicle, software updates may be needed). The hardware can do it. But at those higher power levels you're talking about the level of equipment needed for a low speed DC charger, and those are in the four or low five figure prices, which there isn't a lot of demand for, so the manufacturers who have offerings in that space are by and large pretty low volume with those products, and usually build them on contract for projects, not for retail, so not what you'd call mature yet (I know of at least a few that have gone out of business or been bought). Yes, it's probably cheaper to buy and install that equipment (assuming that you already have the vehicle), than buying and installing a stationary battery system with similar output, but that's still a fairly high up-front cost.
The low outputs for V2L (the Kia/Hyundai/Genesis etc...) are from vehicles that are doing the DC to AC conversion on board, for which that level makes sense. The overwhelming majority of users don't want a car that costs $4,000-10,000+ more so that they can output 15 kW AC. Leave that extra cost and weight off-board for people who want to buy it separately. On board, supply what you'd get from a regular household outlet so that you can treat it like one when you plug in your devices. That's why in 220/240 V markets, they get ~3.3 kW and we get ~1.6 kW. The one exception that I know of is Lucid, which has the Wunderbox 19.6 kW on-board, bi-directional inverter standard on the Air, but it's not cheap.
TLDR: Yep, it's early days, but you can get higher output inverters to work with most modern EVs if you want. It's just expensive and the distribution and installation network is in its infancy for the residential market in North America outside of some niche applications usually connected to utilities or larger companies. That looks like it's changing though. Wallbox is bringing out its CCS compatible Quasar 2 (11.5 kW bi-directional) in North America, though it's been delayed it appears. They have had operating utility attached Quasar 1 deployment in several countries in Europe for years. dcbel is reported as rolling out its CCS, CHAdeMO, and J1772 (that plug isn't bi-directional, but the DC ones are) compatible r16 (7.4 or 15.2 kW bi-directional) in New York, California, and Texas now, with the rest of the continental US next year, along with the UK and France. Fermata Energy has 15 and 20 kW units for fleets now, and homeowners next year.
I'm likely looking at AC coupled as I have 2 arrays - one SMA 5.1kW inverter, and Enphase microinverters 2.5kW. Is it possible to have electrical generation when the grid is down and this is setup? Would this gateway shutting off grid connection and then supplying it's energy from batteries trigger my SMA and Enphase microinverters to produce and think it's safe to do so (which it would be)?
Yes and yes. That's exactly what this system is designed to do.
@@SolarSurge neat, I figured but had to make sure no problems with much of any system. I'll get a system like this in roughly 2 years (could wait up to 7 really since I have net metering), just want a little maturation and prices to come down. It will mainly just be a backup for me anyway. Thanks
Interesting video. Unfortunately, Franklin's website is absolutely useless. No information there, just fancy over-formatting. It's about the worst website I've run into.
Kenneth, thank you for the feedback.... At this time the FranklinWH battery and gateway can only be purchased directly through certified installers, so a lot of our focus has been on the tech advancements and firmware updates..With that being said we could certainly make the user experience on our website a little more consumer friendly. I'll take this to heart and see what we can do. In the meantime, feel free to contact solar surge or myself directly.
@@justinfranklinwh4969 Justin, what is your email address to contact you directly. I tried to do that on your website but didn't find an email address. I am in Texas and in the final stages of designing the system along with my local installer.
Does it work with Generac
I have 18kwh battery.
i want go to 36 kwh or 54kwh or 72kwh depending on cost.
Can Franklin interface with Generac solar and inverters?
Hi Kelly- This is a great question. Yes, our battery is AC-coupled and works with any AC inverter, however, I'm not 100% on connecting the previous battery to our Gateway.... I'm sure something can be done by splitting the feeds, but I will get back to you. You win the stump the teacher award. Fun Fact: You can connect up to 15 aPower at a time to just one aGate (max 204kwh), so no capacity issues here.
Generac Batteries are DC coupled
from what I have learned
@@justinfranklinwh4969 thanks I was wanting to know how many batteries you could hook up together.
it sounds interesting.However you said nothing about the prize.or ah.
There's a few places reporting on price, but that price seems to be inaccurate compared to the quotes I've seen. I'm seeing the most competitive quotes from installers pricing the Franklin WH at about 38% price premium compared to an Enphase 10(T), when doing multiples and a eve more with fewer units.
I like extra power offered by the Frankin and the standard 12 year warranty, but that warranty having much more restrictive temperatures and coming from a new (privately held company with undisclosed financials) makes it hard to justify the literal price premium for the storage capacity (capacity/cost).
There may be situations where the FranklinWH makes sense, maybe 3 Franklin WH vs 4 Enphase 10, for example, where the price premium would be reduced to somewhere around 5%, with capacity just over 1% greater and peak power more than 30% greater (even if youd lose more than 2% in continuous power going with the 3 Franklins). That might be worthwhile for somone need more peak (short term) power.
Still, it hard to imagine that even in that situation that the Franklins would be an attractive option compared to more established and potentially integrated brands. I think if they could drop their pricing about 12%, then they'd be a lot more attractive. That, or they could bump their cycle warranty up to, say, 7500 and bring their warranty temps more in line with current industry standards. If they did both they'd be a real competitive offering, IMO. If they did some sort of additional warranty offering, something like 17 years and 10000 cycles at 65% for at $500-$750, on top of those other moves, they'd likely be soaking up market share like a sponge.
I think, in addition to a real pricing difference between wholesale and the reporting, right now, they're not well established and installers are unfamiliar. So, installers are likely padding pricing some to mitigate some risk. They seem to be a small startup, and likely need some additional funding to be competitive on price, logistics, marketing, etc. I hope they get what they need and are successful.
The options we are quoting most frequently are Enphase 30kWh or Franklin 27.2kWh. The 2-battery Franklin option works out to be $2k less than Enphase 30.
I hate ads where the costs are undisclosed
@@ThomMurphy 8
PRICE????? WHY THE SECRECY???
looks like a copycat of Tesla Powerwall AC battery to me, can you do a comparison?
Yes, that video is coming very soon!
These batteries are in really short supply. If you order this, you might be waiting months
If you purchase through us we can make sure you have supply. We are close with the team at Franklin.
HOW MUCH $$$$$$??????
Probably best to ask you preferred installer, but I'm seeing something like a 38% premium for 2 of these over 2 Enphase 10T, as a very basic reference.
Check out Solwel Corporation in San Antonio TX for availability.
Nice video. 13.6 kwh is 40% of 1 gallon of gasoline. Not a lot of energy. My house thermal loads in Winter are around 300 kwh/day. That battery would last 64 minutes. Electrical loads add another 30 kwh for 333 kwh/day or 58 minutes from 100 to 0%. I need 1 month of storage or 9,990 kwh, say 10,000 kwh. At 13.6 kwh/battery, I would need 735 batteries. At 7000 each? $5.1 million. Houston we have a problem... Batteries won't work.
I think you’re confused as to how much kWh’s you are using in a day. Unless you live in a mall🤷🏾♂️
@@tankercrewchief no, based on utility bills...
I only use 550Kwh/month - am full electric with heating pumps and have lots of servers (IT guy) - no way you are using 333Kwh/day.
@@domi1kenobi I know right!?!?
@@domi1kenobi My Electricity is ~ 30 kwh/day, 10,000 kwh/year. The 333 figure includes heating during cold Winter... I have a shop and 2400 sft house with a Natural gas boiler that is not super good.
Sound interesting, but I won't be fooled twice by beta hardware and software. Was sold an enphase battery system with generator tie in for battery recharge and critical load panel grid down power. Had system installed for over a year with a generator sitting in my yard doing nothing before enphase finished their beta program and rolled out the smartswitch software to allow for the generator to function. Maybe in 2-5 years and you have some experience with this 'new' system/manufacturer and also will wait for the bidirectional aspect of EV's to come to fruition. Having a 100kWH battery to draw from would give me DAYS of backup if fully charged (e.g. Ford F150 lightning). That would negate the need to by only 27kWH of battery storage and duals as a drivable vehicle.