Coast Guard C-130 Collides with a Marine Corps SuperCobra over the Pacific Ocean
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- Опубликовано: 22 сен 2021
- Find out why a Lockheed HC-130 of the United States Coast Guard collided with a United States Marine Corps Bell AH-1W SuperCobra helicopter, 15 miles east of San Clemente Island and about 50 miles from San Diego, California.
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This video has been recorded and edited in 4K resolution and 60FPS. 
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My brother was one of the Cobra pilots killed on board the AH-1W. He was in the gunner's position. Thank you for treating this respectfully and avoiding speculation. From what our family learned, a lot of things went wrong from many people leading up to this incident. The Lt. Colonel of HMLA-469 described the little mistakes to us like holes in Swiss cheese. Most of the time little mistakes lead to nothing and you still have a solid block, but sometimes the holes line up, and that's when something bad happens. The helicopter flight with the 2 Cobras and CH-53s actually saw the C-130 pass by them. This is one reason why they weren't looking for it anymore; they thought it was passing out of their airspace. The C-130 was working in a grid pattern on its search mission, so when it reached the end it turned around and began searching the next grid, in the direction of the helicopter flight. One hypothesis based on the evidence available was that the C-130 pilots were checking notes, and that's why they did not see that they were approaching the helicopter flight. The angle of approach was also more acute than depicted in the video, so the C-130 was approaching the helicopter flight from behind where it was very difficult for the Cobra pilots to see. In addition, ATC was preoccupied by the F-18s performing touch-and-go carrier landing exercises on San Clemente itself, not to mention the H-60 performing its operations, so they were not paying close enough attention to the rest of the planes in the area. This incident was all over the news following the collision, and that was very hard on our family, as I'm sure it was the other families involved. A few days later, however, the Ft. Hood shooting took place, which overshadowed everything. For the record, we don't blame anyone for the collision. We were heartbroken not just ourselves, but for all involved. We were invited, and able to attend the memorial at Camp Pendleton, and at CGAS Sacramento afterwards. Both the Marine Corp and Coast Guard were welcoming to all of us.
Semper Fi, Semper Paratus.
One detail correction: the collision occurred on Oct. 29, not on Oct. 30.
Thank you and my deepest condolences, David. I am Jake’s mom and met your mom at one of the memorials for this tragedy. The description of little mistakes being like Swiss cheese is so appropriate to see in the mind’s eye. As your mom and I both know as nurses, how quickly little mistakes, especially in communication and policies can snowball into tragedies that are preventable. Your explanation is very close to what we knew…however the trailing helicopters were documented to be further in distance from the two in the lead……in a flight of four, I am to understand that they are to follow the changes in altitude as a unit……this did not occur. Hence the crashing of the Helio into the C 130. The heartbreak continues almost 12 years later and my wish for you and your dear family, is to find peace and know they are all safe. I keep your brother and the Major always in my prayers of all nine we lost. We will always remember!⭐️🇺🇸💔
So sorry for your loss 🥺
@@seebunlim thank you!
Your brothers loss was not in vain ! GOD BLESS him and his family and you for sharing his heart felt story , I have always felt that the true hero's are the family and friends waiting for the return of loved ones deployed , Your brother will never be forgotten, and his name will bring honor to all future generations ! Your brothers loss has been felt by every American patriot he served ! Please accept my deepest condolences !
Sorry for your loss my man
As a former Marine, everything about this story just makes my blood boil. The lack of proper planning, the fact that this many aircraft were in the same space with no assistance from the ground, even with all of the resources of 3 branches of the Armed Forces in the immediate area, and then of course the lack of anything resembling accountability. We should not investigate ourselves. Not private citizens, not police, and the US Military. This was an avoidable tragedy. There was absolutely not need for loss of life. These men did not give their lives "in service of our country", their lives were taken because of command negligence, complacency, and incompetence. Any gestures by the command after the fact are an insult. May these servicemen rest in peace, and may their families someday find solace.
The helo's had their IFF's off, the aircraft collision avoidance systems would have detected this, but the IFF's have to be on for this system to work. The Marines were trying to simulate war time conditions as much as they possibly could. I don't blame the Marines, or the Coast Guard here, this was all air traffic control's blunder.
I wonder if someone lost rank
@@gm12551 Doubtful
@@gm12551 Probably got moved upstairs, Gabriel.
Lack of planning and accountability really seems to be the military's way these days.
Gonna do anything about it? No? Guess you're completely happy with it cause the government certainly isn't helping.
The aircraft performing a SAR mission should have been given all space and freedom to carry out the most urgent job of searching for a missing person. It was more important than routine military training.
This sounds to me like a break down in communications, which happens more often than the public thinks.
It would have made more sense for the military exercise to assist in the search for the missing boat. Any real life operation is good training.
@@wilsjane exactly
@@Bigman-fh1fz Thank you.
We all pay for the military through our taxes, so unless they are fighting a war, they should be there for us when we most need them.
@@wilsjane The National Guard is always there when you need them.
As a former Coastie, its sad to see brothers lost while they are conducting an actual mission due to a collision with a training mission.
Oscar/Charlie 98...Alameda 1974
@@sangrangbty540 You are not very smart, are you?
@@sangrangbty540 You need to work on your English!
@@stansmith4054 do u evn knw English
@Mary Humphrey I don't think now's the time or place to flirt when the commenter is talking about comrades who've lost their lives...just sayin'!
I remember this, it ended up a another case of “we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing.”
That's such bullshit. They let two aircraft collide in fully controlled airspace. Someone fucked up big time.
Keep your head on a swivel at all times.
@@1986BBG well I'm sure the C-130 was "looking"... but wasn't it said that only one of the choppers had their lights on? and at the angle they collided, the chopper pilots night vision googles should have seen the lights on the C-130 like flairs... but he was probably just flying looking straight ahead figuring ATC would warn them of any conflicting traffic.... which they should have... that C-130 had to be on their radar... and wouldn't an exercise be under radar control to monitor their performance? or... since they were over open water did the radar crew take a "coffee break"?... it's my experience that military personnel are notorious for not following procedures when things appear "normal" and things get boring they can get lax... so the C-130 is seen leaving the airspace, radar guys see no other planes in the area and possibly "take a break" but do not realize the C-130 is going to turn around and re-enter.
@@t.c.2776 yes it is sad, I am a rotorcraft pilot and that’s why I stated always keep your head on a swivel, going into twilight with night vision goggles on and while making a climbing turn is always a bit hairy, just sad that ATC wasn’t more involved.
I love reading comments from armchair pilots, who play videos games all day long in their parents basement.
I lost two good friends on the C-130 that day, lost 3 on the 6505 just a year prior. It was a very sad day indeed. John Sideman was an incredible guy, I really enjoyed hanging out with him and miss him quite a bit. Carl Grigonis was also on the C-130, another really good guy, really knew his job and had a great wife too, we used to hang out quite a bit at the Hideaway Bar on AirSta Barber’s Point.
May our friends Rest In Peace. Love you Dom
@@TheC130navigator Amen
I was friends with the swimmer on 6505. Went to boot camp with him and hung out with him often when I was stationed in Hawaii.
@@eastcoast16s Dave was an awesome guy and very intelligent. I really enjoyed hanging out with him
@@saintely475 Me too. One of the very few from my boot camp company to make it past 4 years. He ahd I had some great times surfing and hanging out around the island. Quick story (and VERY weird). I was station in MN when the accident happened. I got a text on my work phone from a number that only had 6 numbers in it. All it said was "Skimin killed in 6505 crash". I texted back and the text would not send. To this day I have no clue who sent that to me.
I’m not sure if people truly understand how much work gets put in to one of these video. Thank you, appreciate your work
I truly agree
I couldn’t agree more!
1.26 million subscribers disagree…that’s why they are subscribed
Au contraire, mon ami!
Oh give me a break. Do you not read the comments? If we didn't appreciate the hard work involved, then TFC would not have over 1.26 million subscribers.
Are you also one of those that make comments like, "oh, the best words ever - everyone survived" in some sad attempt to get interwebz points?
I was the Aircraft Commander on duty at Airsta Sacramento to relieve the 1705, and watched them take off en route to the SAR case. We were supposed to take over for them on scene later on, so we cancelled our evening trainer; I was working in my office when the desk got the call that the 1705 had not done a radio check in on time. We tried to call them, but no joy, so I pulled out the mishap response plan and started calling the command to come in. We got reports of a fireball in the SAR area, and a call that the Navy found a floating tire - they gave us the serial number on it. We called maintenance control and got the number of the nose wheel tires and confirmed it was the 1705’s tire that the Navy had found. Thus commenced one of the toughest periods of my career.
I knew and had flown with everyone on board (except for Che, since we were both ACs) and was the copilot’s roommate when I first got to Sacto. I still think about this flight crew all of the time.
Thank you Andrew for this…..I am Jake’s mom. The impact of this crash was devastating not only to family and friends, but also to each and every one of you who were their ‘family’ also! Thank you always for your service. We will always remember!🇺🇸⭐️
This was so sad ! I remember it well , I also remember when a U.S.C.G. 52-A chopper saved me and Charles Singler, deck hand., and Don De Boe ,Captain from a freezing storm tossed sea at night, 75N miles out to sea after our commercial fishing boat "PETREL" had a stack fire , which we put out, then a flash back which we couldn't. We we're forced into the ocean without survival suit's hanging onto a hatch cover , on the 21st of May 1977 . This was my first job out of the Navy , the Coast Guard saved our lives , I continued to go to sea ! Ending as Captain of a small merchant tanker from Jan of 1979 to December of 1982, I'm now a full time marine and aviation artist, this loss hit too closely to home , especially since the C-130 was on a Sars mission ! Bless them all !
Cool
That seems... Terrifying.
Best wishes to you 🙏🏻
I got out of the Marines in 1990,pendleton was my duty station before I went overseas to Okinawa.
I joined the coast guard and flew sar,le,migrant interdiction missions until 99.
This was no one persons fault,just an unfortunate series of events.
Rest in peace brothers.
@@time4change56 thank you ! And best wishes to you also !
FYI the missing boater was never found. The search was called off and he was presumed dead.
RIP
If he would have never gone boating that day they’d all still be here.
@@trevorrogers95 he didn't go "boating" the man was out looking for another person who had become lost at sea.
If that other person didn't go boating, then.
@@statik2550 so touching
I was serving at CG Air Station Boriquen when this tragic event occurred. We did a honor ceremony for all the service members that were lost in this tragedy. It was a somber moment and incredibly sad to see the boots and helmets along with their uniforms in memorial of those lost that day. I remember this vividly, may they all rest easy, we now have the watch.
so very lost. such a sad day
@cpw vuk the “watch” refers to our primary duties as military members to protect and defend the nations constitution, against all enemies foreign and domestic. The act of the watch occurs 24/7, this allows the constant and continuous operation and oversight of military personnel and its equipment.
Very sad to hear about it
How does that happen? I understand crap happens and it usually ain't good , as in this case. I just fail to grasp , how in spite of some lights and signals not being on and the transponder , but how does a helicopter miss a airplane? Or the airplane miss the helicopter? It doesn't seem to be a crowded airspace or a chaotic situation, I don't get , how? I most certainly don't mean any disrespect to the memory of the people lost.
Semper paratus am3 hc130h load and drop master airsta Clearwater
My dad delivered the 1705 to Air Station Barbers Point back in 1997 when he was stationed at AS Sacramento, he has many flight hours on that exact aircraft. This event happened a few years after he retired
For over 30 years I worked barely 3 miles south of McClellan. Everyone in that area knows those planes. Stopped and smiled every time I saw one.
Epic effects, sad story.
I love stickmen too!!
I like the shots of the helicopter blades the best 👌Looks like they are barely moving
C 130 crashed are VERY common.
In such a vast and empty space, yet 2 planes equipped with highly functional military grade technologies still managed to crash into one another. That's unbelievably tragic. RIP those who lost their lives.
it's unbelievably stupid. And criminal.
Military grade does not mean good
@@iantuel4425 The Military have zero regard for the safety of human life .A lot of military personnel are killed by ACCIDENTS...expendables..
@@andya857 DS
@ian tuel Ignorance is bliss - During 23 yrs in the AF, safety was always paramount. Always. Many things we have to do in the military are inherently high risk and accidents can and do happen. Use some common sense.
Dispassionately, this was absolutely deplorable. It wasn’t an accident, it was the result of bad policies and totally useless lack of communication and cooperation. Of course the USCG on a typical USCG mission should take priority and call the shots. I bet there were a lot of people with sloping shoulders after this, and blaming other people. The people in all the aircraft were totally not to blame, because they had no idea about what was around them, because they weren’t told. Or necessarily listened to. The helicopters weren’t using AIS and were playing war games, I understand. Sorry, but it was a total muck-up. This was Manslaughter.
Not sure about manslaughter, but a got wrenching ATC failure.
I agree with your comment, tho I would put mine atad differently. This was a major Screw-the-Pooch and ClusterFoxtrot that the Military is famous for and Heads should Roll. Along with the usual CYA. It was a breakdown in the Command, Training, and Following of Standard Operating Procedure. What ATC DOES NOT inform aircraft flying in close proximity to each other of 'local traffic' given the fact one is a SAR Mission should add more urgency/pucker-factor to said Warning.....one would think??? With their own Report they admit to the cause @13:07......as the famous movie quote goes "What we have here is a failure to communicate." inna nutshell. A Dereliction of Duty at the least, Involuntary Manslaughter at the worst. Plenty of blame to go around, not that it will add any comfort to the families involved in this easily preventable crash, yet if the Military admitted Fault, then they would be liable and all kinda unpleasant and embarrassing facts might have to be explained.....and we can't have that, can we??? Yet not a single Captain's Mast or a Courts-Martial??? Article 32 Hearing maybe??? I smell bilge water. I've seen a Base Commander throw a Sailor in the Brig for 30 days for half a can of stale beer back in my days. Nothing else, just half a can of stale beer in the barracks room and being a good Shipmate and Senior Man, he took the blame to keep the other three men in the room from also being charged. Yes, they were all 4 going to be charged. No, wasn't his beer, he didn't drink or smoke, but the POS ChickenSheeit who couldn't throw away a half a can of beer from the night before, cried.....yes, cried and begged to keep from admitting it and taking his punishment. So being Senior Man and to 'save' the other 3, he copped to it. Went from a GMT 3rdPO to a Stricker Seaman Fleet Bosun's Mate in less than 10 minutes. Packed his Ditty Bag and was gone 30 minutes after that. My oh my how times have changed.
This is why Im for small government. People who work government jobs, when they screw up, sometimes, many times it has MAJOR implications and reverberations for the rest of us, not just safety, but our welfare and freedoms as well.
Yet, they are NEVER, EVER held accountable for their actions! Most in government are moved around, eventually "falling upwards" into positions of power and influence they should not be holding in the first place.
@@snafubar5491 Nothing personal, but 'screw the pooch' seems kind of crass when people died.
@@dezznutz3743
“Small government” sounds good in theory; but most of the time it amounts to deregulation that takes away regulations that protect the average person while giving advantages to large corporations and wealthy people: such as when the mortgage industry was deregulated under Bush and the mortgage lenders were allowed to sell variable rate, subprime loans which screwed A LOT of people over. Or defunding the SEC to the point where there were only 100 auditors to look over the books of over 17,000 American corporations, with the result being that multiple corporations were cooking their books and employees, investors (including employee investors) got screwed over when numerous corporations went under.
Advocating for “small government” policies sounds good because it seems like it simplifies things; but it’s a lot more complicated than just a slogan. There are plenty of parts of our government that have been created for the benefit of the taxpayers and which do help protect people. Sure, we should do everything possible to get rid of redundant and unnecessary government; but limiting government should be done intelligently and not based on simple rhetorical ideologies.
Only 10% of our government is comprised of bureaucrats: the majority of government are actually normal working Americans who work for us. The USGS geologists who study earthquakes, the NOAA weather forecasters who track hurricanes, the OSHA inspector trying to make industry safer, the NIH epidemiologist tracking food borne illnesses, the USDA meat inspectors trying to keep food safe for consumption, the FEMA emergency personnel that help people in emergencies, the Park Rangers, and many other government jobs that actually do help Americans in their daily lives.
The worst part is that conservatives buy the propaganda about small government end up supporting politicians that continually increase the size of the federal government; most specifically those parts of government that are the greatest threat to Americans’ freedoms. The Republicans have increased the size and the personnel of the agencies that have agents that carry guns and have martial power: the Department of Homeland Security, ICE, INS, Border Patrol, TSA, NSA, and many additional three letter agencies. Expanding Medicare and Social Security won’t affect your freedoms; social workers don’t carry guns. It’s ironic that conservatives end up supporting exactly those agencies that are the biggest threats to the individual freedoms of Americans through their support for law enforcement.
Instead of just thinking simplistically and abstractly about “big gubmint” being a threat to our rights and freedoms, perhaps people should think a bit more deeply and ask themselves which specific agencies are a real threat. Republicans have been suckered into supporting exactly that which is the greatest threat to Americans’ rights and freedoms by allowing fear based arguments of “law and order” to drive their thought processes.
Most of those regulations at the federal level (with the exception of more recent corporate lobbyist driven regulations) were put into place for good reasons. If you look at the regulations that Republican politicians tend to want to get rid of, the vast majority of the time, it’s the regulations that actually protect normal, middle class people. It sounds good in theory to be against having excess regulations and too much government, and there are onerous and overly burdensome government regulations that need to be looked at, but blanket condemnations of regulation in general does a disservice to the reality behind what regulations are for and how they work.
Of course we should always try to reduce government if it’s unnecessary or onerous to Americans; but it should always be approached intelligently and without any partisan political intent. Certainly we need to deal with the legalized corruption at the top by enacting better campaign finance reforms and try to limit the effects of corporate lobbying which gives unnecessary subsidies and kickbacks to corporations as they’re oftentimes robbing the taxpayers; but not all of government is the enemy. There are many parts of government that are beneficial.
I cannot imagine how the ATC at FACSFAC SD felt after this happened. I know at FACSFAC Oceana where I was stationed from 13-17, there would have been heads rolling.
I’m Jake Moletzsky’s mom. He was on the 1705. Someone asked me a question that I never thought twice about. Their question was.. did I have such anger and hate for the people who made these mistakes to cost our son his life, of course, along with the others? It took me a long time to be able to say this…..my response was, “so because I was one of nine families who lost their child in this horrible tragedy, should I be the one who condemns the ones who made the mistakes? I believe those mistakes will live forever and definitely on the human hearts of those who were involved. I don’t believe that I could ever face a family member of one of those involved, and make them feel as badly about their child’s responsibility in all of this, as I felt for the loss of mine.” Blame is easy…its never liked…but blaming never takes the horrible reality or hurt or sadness away. Humans are not infallible.
Well if the coast guard is on a rescue mission, no traning missions should be conducted in the same air space, common sense really.
This cannot be stated enough…..miscommunication occurred by civilian vs military air traffic controllers about what is going on in an active SAR. It should have been priority rendered. Other mistakes not shown in this video, ie. Change of personnel in controllers and all information not exchanged, the flight of four being distanced of more than appropriate, accepted space in flight (more than a mile separated from front Helios to back Helios, etc. is needed to “see” the complete story here……….
Yep, that's what struck me. I'd expect the exercises to be suspended or bent toward joining the search operation.
Common sense is never common in the military
@@nicklastname9495 … guess this is difficult to accept. That was my son on the C130…. i expect common sense when policies should be followed
@@blarney020 Oh that's awful. When I see something like this, I ( like most I'm sure ) immediately think of the mothers, fathers, husbands , sisters and brothers and everyone close who have lost their loved ones for no damn good or legitimate reason. I'm so sorry you are among them. It's heartbreaking enough when someone who is serving to protect us all is lost in any tragedy. When it's caused by horrible lack of adherence to regulations and procedures or cavalier / cowboy behavior as in so many other cases it's so very much worse and actually infuriating. God bless you.
I was stationed with the Flight Engineer and Navigator to year prior. Both were wonderful men who loved their families and their jobs in the Coast Guard. Such a tragedy. Rest easy shipmates, we have the watch!
I had retired from the USCG in 2004 at ATC Mobile and when I found out John was on the fateful flight it hit hard. I had worked with John in Kodiak (88-91) and he loved his job in the engineer seat. Once you make chief you are no longer required to fly but John was not a desk jockey, he stayed in the air. I found an old photograph of the 1705 from my Kodiak tour and it's difficult to look at it today. Grey hair is a gift not all get to enjoy, I will appreciate it for those that did not get the chance. Clay Ritchie
Well said Clay. From your old duplex neighbor on “C” Avenue.
One missing bit of flight information I would have liked to see: Speeds of the aircraft and closure rates. Those who have limited or no flight experience have little idea of how fast aircraft can converge on each other. At night and on NVGs makes it even more difficult to “see and avoid”.
Air traffic control should have still issued warnings.
Yep, absolutely, especially the angles, turning, and climbing... Tough to avoid under the circumstances. Trying to see a helo at night when it isn't squawking or flashing and it's below you climbing and turning into you?! No way. The only way to avoid this is ATC warning and informing everyone to stick to altitudes. The helos should have been sent home as soon as SAR notified ATC it had a mission. I don't know how fast these Hercs fly for SAR, but it's a minimum of 100 knots to keep from stalling.
Poor leadership. Speak up. The wasting of human lives is always tragic, more so when the loss was preventable. Obviously, the FAA standards were never enough and should not have been solely relied on. But talk is cheap as is hindsight to those who suffered and still do. Especially when history constantly repeats itself due to our weakness.
When one assumes the power to lead, you had better be damn good at it.
@@Ben-uf7td They were flying either 150 or 180 knots, depending on if their flaps were out.
I Remember this like it was yesterday, I knew the crew and had many hours on this airplane. Sad day
Ditto, from ADQ (88-91) Clay Ritchie
Thank you for remembering them! Jake’s mom, Lisa.
I knew the flight engineer. Definitely a top notch guy. I think of him and the incident often. I have many flight hours on the 1705. RIP.
Another tragedy that was avoidable! So sad, RIP souls! Superb Graphics by the way, especially night vision and sunset! 👍
Hard to watch when you’re friends and co workers were onboard. Regardless, that was incredibly well made and brought clarity to the report/s I read.
All crewmen seemed to be at the age where they were likely married & had kids. Sad.
I felt similarly with regard to the Air New Zealand, Mt Erebus (1979) disaster. Although not knowing a single individual personally, New Zealand was a very small nation at that point and the entire country was waiting for the daily t.v. news reports, and hourly radio updates. Sorry, I don't mean to suggest that my/our situation was somehow worse than those that actually knew people (on the flight). My point being is, and I imagine you feel similarly (though correct me if I've misunderstood), that such events are defining moments in our
lives. The pain is not as acute but becomes like a chronic illness, in some ways.
God bless these Coast Guard And United States Marine Corps Heroes.
Too bad your "god" didn't provide his blessing prior to taking their life from them...your "god" being in control and all.
Why can't we just bless these men for the job they do for us and leave your belief in an invisible "all knowing" entity out of it, shall we?
@@phillipzx3754 The Almighty God did not take these men the accident took the men because of people who didn't protect them.
@@eddielane9569 If your god had the ability to create our universe it should also have the ability to prevent "accidents." If your god can't prevent accidents, why give thanks, prayers or blessing to something which is obviously WORTHLESS!
@@phillipzx3754 God doesn't work like you want him to. Life happens. We are not robot's.
@@eddielane9569 Ya...he never does and that's the same old lame ass excuse bible thumpers spew. Try and come up with something a more convincing argument for your invisible man.
May God bless 🙏 our servicemen 🇺🇸 who lost their lives and the loved ones they left behind.
This is a good video, but the names of the other four Coast Guard personnel who died are publicly available. I don't understand why you would quit after only three names. Carl Grigonis - Navigator, Monica Beacham - Radio Operator, Danny Kreder - Dropmaster, Jason Moletsky - Air Crew. RIP.
I agree! My son, now retired, flew many hours in 1705 when it was at Barbers Point and knew some of the crew and feels they should have been memorialized like the rest.
@@KarlBeeThree My dad ferried the 1705 out to Barbers Point back in 1996, or 97. He flew many hours in the 1705 when he was stationed in Sacto in the mid to late 90's
Thanks for bringing that up! Hope the channel edits it or at least puts the names in captions somewhere.
Sadly……that is my son, Jason S. ‘Jake’ Moletzsky who was one not shown. Respectfully wish that they were all included, as they were with any other social media, newspaper and TV depictions have shown. These nine human beings left this earth together and should always be remembered as those Fallen.
Came in to say this. Operational flights, we always have 7 Souls on board. Please correct this and name all of them.
Sometimes more if we have a TSO or personnel flying for time. Just 4 if we are doing a test flight.
I think I have flown on every 17xx we had except the 1705. I worked with and have many flight hours and deployments with John and Carl when we were all stationed at Barbers Point. John and Carl transferred to Sacto @ 4-6 months before I did. Didn't really know Monica, but we were both deployed to El Salvador at some point from different air stations and both our crews drank some beers together.
RIP
The loss of lives was truly tragic. What was shocking was that no one was made accountable for the accident.
The video explained that there was no one thing that was the cause, so no one was to blame.
The graphics and detailed storylines in these videos are fantastic. They really help us non-pilots understand more of what is going on. I'm sorry for those who lost their lives in this tragedy.
What is rediculous is that no one was held responsible for not following established procedure/policy of prioritizing the SR mission. ATC was not properly trained yet no officer was demoted or cashed out.
These simulations are getting incredibly realistic.
I like the simulation at 5:40 where the simulating setting sun has a simulating
band of light straight across the simulated ocean surface proving that the earth
is flat bc everybody knows that light cannot bend but must follow sea level (not sea curve)
@@jimcrawford3185 By any chance, did you work for the Department of Redundancy department? 😀
@@jimcrawford3185 Oh my god, another brainde-- no, sorry, a flat-earther...
@@kurtkensson2059
DOS
(Dept of Simulation)
@@jimcrawford3185Now I understand why you found the simulating so stimulating. 👍
I flew with CG1705 about a month before this happen. It was a very sad day when I heard about this. The plane came thru Shemya Alaska frequently delivering supplies to Coast Guard Air Station Attu.
This hits home with me because I was a C-130 man while I was in the Air Force, and I went through some of my training with Coast Guard personnel. My job was maintaining the aircraft, but I have been a crew member on SAR missions myself and know how focused you have to be while looking for a vessel in distress. ATC should have paid closer attention and kept the aircraft separated.
One wonders how much ATC at NAS North Island would have been able to see the C-130 and helicopters on radar at the low altitude they were at. I'm speaking from experience as a 20-year USAF air weapons director with many years working with ground radar and the last 2.5 years in AWACS.
ATC FAILED TO DO THEIR JOB, TO START, NOT ASSIGN PRIORITY TO A LIFE SAVING SAR ACTIVITY
@@romeomike8918 Even if not visible to air control, it certainly would have been prudent to keep 500 feet vertical separation between the C-130 and helicopters.
Maybe not visible but they knew damn well where Coast Guard was at 1k feet. Not enough urgency to keep the helos away too much casual playing it cool machismo most likely. It is okay to get a little urgent sometimes on airwaves and seek clarity. Too many disasters shown on this channel are result of a simple lack of communication skills.
@Mary Humphrey No, married 38 years and counting. 🙂
My God this just seemed so vivid and real. I watch from Australia where many aerial search and rescue missions have been carried out looking for lost seamen (Sydney to Hobart yacht race and MH370 spring to mind), every time these men and women take to the skies, they risk their own lives to find and save those of others. May God have mercy upon the souls of those who gave their lives in their service to humanity, and may He grant strength to those who they have left behind.
Australia looks like a police state, it’s sad to see. What the hell is going on down under?
@@homiedclown2623
Right wing nut jobs getting what they deserve.
@@homiedclown2623 The Australian government has disarmed most of the population years ago, so the government can do what it wants with impunity. At least in the U.S. we have the Second Amendment, which serves as a checks and balances system on state power.
@@Eternal_Tech
Nonsense. Guns everywhere. My ex boss has 74.
Excellent job as usual - and the information-graphics helped paint a clearer picture - thanks a lot TFC!
If this quote, "What we've got here is failure to communicate" doesn't ring more true than any other, I don't know which does.
I thought about this possibility every SAR mission I flew on. RIP for those lost.
Now when I hear a plane overhead, this music plays in my head. 😶
Being no expert on miltary/CG ops, I am still stunned by the ludicrous investigations' statements. Just a big "oops" and these crews were the victims of bad luck. It doesn't take an expert to wonder why the ground controllers did not do their jobs
Wait... did they ever find the guy in the boat?
Apparently that was Irrelevant from the Get Go. Jmo.
Nope, called off the search just over a week after this, guy was presumed to be dead.
I used to be in the USCG, and at one time I worked on USCG HC-130s.
R.I.P., crew of 1705...🙏
Never forgotten 1705 and V38! It is also important to note fixed wing aviators in the Coast Guard DID NOT have NVGs at that time. As a result of this mishap, we now have them. 1705 was flying blind and fully trusting the controllers.
Not a day goes by I don’t think of 1705 (wear the patch on my flight suit, too) if I am in a Warning Area…head on always on a swivel.
Thank you for this video and the channel.
@Drew.tater.tot. Stay safe always. If there are changes made after this horrific accident, no matter the fault, and it protects ones that serve after and remember their Fallen, then that is the good that comes from a tragedy.
@Drew… I’m Jake’s mom, Lisa
I used to be station at McClellan AFB back in the early 1990's. I knew a few CG people there. It was sad when I heard about the mid-air crash. I retired in 1995. And the strange thing about this crash is that me , My brother and a few friend's were fishing off San Clemente island two day's before this happen. My heart go's out to there family's. Rest in Peace my Brothers.
Red October
I had retired from the USCG in 2004 at ATC Mobile and when I found out John was on the fateful flight it hit hard. I had worked with John in Kodiak (88-91) and he loved his job in the engineer seat. Once you make chief you are no longer required to fly but John was not a desk jockey, he stayed in the air. I found an old photograph of the 1705 from my Kodiak tour and it's difficult to look at it today. Grey hair is a gift not all get to enjoy, I will appreciate it for those that did not get the chance. Clay Ritchie
Class post. Thank you
RIP Skidkid. Your advice on airwarriors will resonate for many generations to come
Great video as always, but this one leaves me with more questions than answers
Check out :ruclips.net/video/auv_9dLSfTk/видео.html. Mentour Pilot, he'll leave you fully informed.
Between military and aviation terms, this was a lot of acronyms in a single video.
Most of which were a bit complex and hard to read. :/
Acronyms are the Military way.
@@madhatter9001 Short, sweet and efficient! SNAFU is one of my favourites.
@@marcdraco2189 That's a great everyday acronym for the work place too lol
@@sicooper4230 Mine esp. ;) It's become so overused here that it's a cliche. ;)
What a ghastly moment. How could this have happened?Hearts go out to both crews.💕🇬🇧
"We were at war, with an army of idiots with boats"
So the military essentially said "Shit happens" and taxpayers will pay for replacement aircraft and service people. Nice to be in charge .
I have a suggestion for you. Pan Am Flight 103 AKA the Lockerbie bombing ✈
That wuld be amazing bruh 💥💥
Yup
@@osamabinladen824 7/11 WAS A PART TIME JOB
@@twisterman4184 LMAOOOOO
@@sahadrejuofficial halo malayali
Real world SAR missions always take precedence over any training mission. ATC knows this , this is nothing more than the Navy covering its ass for once again incompetence. They did it to the Air Force with Takur Ghar and they did it here as well.
I lived in Sacramento when this happened. You gave more attention to this terrible event than the local media.
This channel deserves an award/recognition for the videos they produce. These aviation cases are so professionally presented and very compelling to watch. The visuals are very real! Thank you⭐TheFlightChannel⭐ ✔✈
It was no one's fault ? - transponders on, night vision, radar, ATC aware - a training flight vs a 'real' mission - hmmm not sure the families would be so keen with this verdict? Thanks for the video
yeah hell did war pilots have CTs telling them were everyone is and what to do? Had windows and used them.
The lead chopper was the only one with it's transponder on and was a few hundred feet or so lower than the one tailing. Also, the angle at which the two craft met and their speed would have made it unlikely that either saw each other (even with night vision) in time to react.
Thank you gentlemen for your service. I am saddened that the two missions ended as they did.
TFC - you have really upped your game. Not intending to make light of this tragedy in any way, but your presentation is just amazing. Several times, if I let my attention wander just for s second, I'd think I was watching a Hollyweird production, not a video recreation! I've been watching your videos for quite a while and vast increase in quality is really impressive.
And thank you for the opportunity to honor these men who gave their lives working to protect our Country. Yes, we can debate where fault may lie, but for the moment, out of respect, let us choose to honor them now, and argue causes and fixes later (and yes, that does need to be addressed, just not right now).
Typical CYA for an ATC COM and/or NCO who failed to properly assume OA, resulting in this incident.
Those night vision goggles limit peripheral vision which may have contributed to the accident.
It did, the angle they were flying, the helo was ascending in altitude, both crews were concentrating on their missions at hand, all you can say was that it was their time to go.
It. It just makes me so sad to see this or hear this. So many lives lost through these airplanes and helicopters. God bless all of you and to your families. I know the pain will never lesson or go away. I am so sorry for your loss thank you for those who have served.
It’s so sad that we as humans have to be taught from something so tragic as this, unfortunately no matter how bad the loss of life is to family and friends there is something to be learned from this, god bless you all who lost there life’s on this day. And thank all of the women and men serving in this sometimes cruel world. Thank you for keeping us safe
Search and rescue people are true heroes.
I was on the Camp Pendleton flight line when this happened. I remember the call to come inside and finding out the news. From what I remember they were never found after the accident.
There was a lot of death in the air that year. Entirely too many tragedies for zero reason. May they continue to Rest In Peace.
Very well done video on a very sad day for our country with the loss of our people. Hopefully they have procedures in place that will not allow this to happen again.
Typical. We investigated ourselves and found no one at fault. Government BS!
Tragic. "I have the right of way" "No I have the right of way" Ground pounders. Where in the hell was a coordinating ATC? Those are the guys that failed. Miserably. Criminal maneuver.
You did a fantastic job on this one. Taking the time to recreate the positions of the helicopters & other craft helped me visualize what was going on. Your research into this accident shows. But how horrible was this. I don’t know much about military craft & operations but don’t they monitor radar, have collision avoidance systems or other warning systems? It’s so sad & such a waste of human life.
I'm Theora with a comment above. GREAT question!!?? The airlines do, so you'd think these guys would too?!
None of the military craft involved have a search radar, or any real use for a search radar to perform their missions, as a matter of fact, it'd be foolish for a helicopter to enter enemy territory with a search radar active. They also don't bother with the collision warning beacons like commercial aircraft because they fly in close formation regularly, so it'd be a nuisance most of the time. The helicopters do have an Identify Friend or Foe beacons as mentioned in the video, but the C-130 may not being it isn't expected to be in combat.
The primary factor was the use of night vision goggles that really limit your field of view and you have to turn your head constantly to see what is going on around you. Being in formation, the Cobra pilot was likely looking only at holding his position in the formation, and not looking around so much.
I'll add a thumbs up for the complexity of this multi-aircraft incident.
They may have a collision avoidance system, but those systems depend on transponders and only the lead helicopter was squawking. The other helos weren't, because they were in close formation, which may have triggered their collision avoidance systems, but also would have triggered the same for ATC/FAA, so they were off. If the Herc had such a system, it would have only worked for the lead helo, not the others. This would have drawn their attention to that lead helo, along with the massive size and lights of the lead helo. But that CG Herc is probably old and may not have a collision avoidance system. I flew on old Hercs in the Marines five years before this incident and most of our aircraft didn't have collision avoidance systems. I remember the first one in our squadron that did and that was in 2002.
@@Ben-uf7td I will have to check with some older maintainers or pilots at my unit as to when Hercs got TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System), but I flew HC-130Hs since 2011 and TCAS was there when I started. Then in 2012 or 2013, we finally got NVGs as a result of this mishap.
This one was particularly brutal as they were my brothers in arms. I still don’t understand how a helicopter on NVG‘s missed an HC130. I’m assuming the helo came up into the underside (belly) of the plane. When a C-130 is doing a SAR they have predictable patterns and they are lit up like Christmas.
I guess we’ll never really know what happened.
**Please include all member that died. They were all actively part of the case. The other people on the plane were Petty Officer 2nd class Carl P. Grigonis Navigator, Petty Officer 2nd class Monica L. Beacham, radio operator, Petty Officer 2nd class Jason S Moletszky, aircrew and Petty Officer 3rd class Danny R. Kreder II Drop Master
True, I was wondering why not all members were included.
did they find the missing person?
visual IDing wasn't needed. Instruments should have told them
@Steve Lancaster no. it is easy to judge in any event. Non use of available tech to prevent disaster is criminal.
The AH1 was in a climbing left turn. They did not have their IFF transponder on so did not show up on the 1705's TCAS. They impacted into the left side of the 1705's fuselage, below the wing. The blame lies squarely with the Navy controller.
One note - Until 1995, at 0.47 ,, (47 seconds), the military base north of Sacramento was called McClellan Air Force Base..After 1995, it was called the Sacramento Air Logistics Center.
The video quality is insane. The clip with the heli in sunset over the ocean is masterful. Amazing. You are really REALLY good at this, Theflightchannel! Thankyou for serving us these marvellous graphics.
dang such a sad event! I was USCG and was in the C130 training pipeline in 2004, it didn't work out for me in flight school unfortunately so I went to sea instead. I am sorry to see this loss of life that seems so preventable, but so it is when putting others' lives above their own, the way of service, which is never without risk! Thank you to all those who served and died that day in service. Does anyone know the outcome of the SAR case?
Others here say they never found them. Much respect to those who try, for without them nobody lost would ever be found.
Amazing the amount of resources applied to a SAR mission for one man. America is a strong, humane nation. Pity about the current leadership, though.
A strong humane nation ? That’s clearly debatable ..
Humane....it starts wars and interferes all over the world....Spoken like a one eyed yank..
I feel like my grievances over this have already been said better by others. I just want to say that I appreciate the absolute professionalism of the creators of this video. I can't imagine how much work goes into it. Thank you. RIP to all the lives lost.
One of my friends was Barnes father he took the loss of his son quite hard it was a difficult time for the family
Amazing attention to detail with the video. It is sad that the world lost those 9 souls that day!
The military sure does age people in their professional photos. Guys be 24 looking 40. God bless their souls.
At least they're not obese cows like they are in the civilian world.
@Nisha Mack…Inappropriate comment for this forum…..and yes, God bless their souls, who went into eternity together.
@@blarney020 inappropriate according to whom?🤔
I guess I should identify myself…. One of those victims was mine… unfortunately the creator of this video failed to show all the crew members of the 1705.
@@blarney020 if this is true, much respect to you. sorry for your loss. my response wasn't directed at anyone person in the photos. just a thought. The professional photos make people look "older". I have family who are active, I do understand. This is something that we have discussed at length. Anyways, I do hope that your family member is resting in peace.
Although I do not fly, I drive. They are distinctly not the same but this is a reminder for me to keep my eyes on the road and my hand on the wheel.
I just learned of this event, all I can see is that lots of some ones weren't doing their job and as others have said no one was held accountable.
Your videos are spectacular and I look forward each week to a new one. That said, I started to cry tonight upon hearing the music….very seldom do we see all aboard survived.
What a preventable tragedy. Semper Fi to all who perished. 🇺🇲🇺🇲
"Mishap" is a bit of an understatement, RIP to those lost. Very well done video with great respect maintained.
Flight channel videos keep getting better by every video there should be a netflix series on this 👍
Hmmm. Other than a visual representation ~ this doesn’t do much justice. Let me shed some light on the situation. I served with John Seidman and Carl Grigonis of 1705 and was shocked to hear of the accident so soon after they had PCSd to Sacramento. Hell, I was on USCG Jarvis with Carl before we entered aviation. I knew these guys well. I listened to the black box transmission and they mistook lights on the island for the helicopters. It wasn’t until a split second before impact with the tail helicopter that John Seidman reported lights passing in front of the aircraft. The C130 pilots tried to climb but it was too late. The dropmaster reported a light passing from the left before the end of the recording. Witnesses on the shore said they saw a fireball fall out of the sky over the water. Aircraft parts were found floating on the surface of the water but no bodies were recovered.The lost boater was never found. RIP brothers.
@James A….that was the last recording of my son’s voice…….from the left
How much better could these graphics possibly get!! A++ 👍👍
always hated flying in the C 130. too loud , lumbering and hot. I spent three days on San Clemente Island in Dec 1983 with my National Guard unit , we lived outdoors while patrolling all over the island ( Training ). It was so cold , we had ice forming on the bill of our patrol caps. Fog was so thick you could not see more than 5 feet in front of you. We basically did a tent city everyday when we stopped our patrols. Most of us got sick after 3 days there. And we had a C 130 pick us up to fly back to Los Alamitos. Last time we ever trained there. Our plane took off in the fog.
True but they are very versatile and hard to kill unless its a brother in arms running into you somewhere in the limitless sky.
Damn, I had it easy in Viet Nam. Happy that I wasn't sent to San Clemente back then.
@@joejakubec9708 Rougher than my Two combat tours including Iraq . Should have gave us Purple Hearts for freeze ass.
The usual Navy BS: "No one was responsible".
Yup. Support our troops while we send them to their death. I don't drink the Kool-Aid!
Translation: Someone done f*cked up!
In the end, it was a successful CYA mission.
Seems to me if the FACSFAC SD did not tell the Coast Guard C-130 about the 4 Marine Helos operating in the search area that someone had their head up their A.
The Indianapolis taught me everything I need to know about the Navy's handling of these incidents. It took a 13 year old kid to finally clear that captain's record long after he committed suicide. I'm not banging on the Navy, lot of very good servicemen and women. It's the upper echelon/PIO.
I always assumed the C-130 flew into the helo thinking it was what they were looking for… This does not show that. It seems here they were blindsided. I flew many hours with Chief Seidman and others aboard, I always questioned what did they see coming??? It all makes more sense now. I will never forget them.
Yes…..and until it was explained to our family, the nightmare of them seeing what was happening was overwhelming….Unfortunately, I don’t think the Marines were spared that vision.
@@blarney020 Sorry for your loss.
@@benbrenzel8647 thank you Ben!
Great video. Finkle was an awesome pilot, and a pleasure to fly with. He was the first Snake pilot I ever had the privilege to fly with, and I remember him flying me through Downtown Atlanta on that trip.
Deep condolences, in air collision event, i really cannot imagine.. in an unlimited sky, 2 unfortunate objects can collide in Exact precise position, :'(
It's strange how everything had to line up precisely for the collision to happen. Huge open sky, and all. Makes me wonder how many 'near misses' and other close calls happen.
No such thing as a "near miss". What, you ALMOST missed? You mean "near midair collision". You *want* to miss, not hit..
@@karlchilders5420 ,I recon you make a good point.
@@karlchilders5420 What you call it is a matter of perspective, and I think yours if the correct one.
Unacceptable. We can track satellites with precision MILLIONS of miles in OUTER SPACE, but no one is responsible for tracking air space miles from the coast line? The military ATC from San Diego screwed the pooch on this and wouldn't show any honor and take responsibility for their mistake(s).
On November 9, 2009 it was reported that the search for the missing boater, David Jines, was called off...neither he nor his craft were ever found...
So the whole mission was catastrophic AND a failure?
@@thedatboi_ Not a failure. Many id not most S&R Op's don't find someone lost at sea. Finding a person swimming or floating in the ocean is about the equivalent of finding one grain of sand deep in a carpet, remembering that the grain of sand keeps moving with wind, waves, and ocean currents. In fact unless there's something larger visible like a boat hull or an oil slick they don't often find a single person lost at sea visually but I'm damn glad that they always try until there's no hope left. As long as that happens then that's all that is possible and that is as successful as can happen.
A very sad disaster. It must have been very scary when the other helicopters saw the collision happen.
This one is very sad.I just pray that these videos help future pilots recognize situations they may have not been trained for. These mid-air collisions ...
The lack of accountability ensures that this will occur again.
Thank You So Much to FlightChannel for this Amazing Recreation of this Unfortunate Airborned Accident! We should learn from our Past Mistakes! 🌻🌿🌍
It’s really shows how difficult flying can be at those relatively low speeds compared to jets. So many pairs of eyes and the c-130 is pretty big, yet a collision still occurred. Military training is very dangerous even on the best of days.
He makes the greatest videos of all time.
He really does, they’re addictive
THAT’s an opinion
Flight channel graphics are simply outstanding!
I'm a little surprised that this happened with the military and with a helicopter which is more maneuverable than an airplane..
Precisely.
Yeah that was ridiculously weird. In such an empty space, a helicopter fails to identify a well lit HC-130, very strange! Even with a last minute sighting, the helicopter could've easily evaded.
@@keshavprabhu2231 just speculating here, but those NVGs (Night Vision Goggles) really limit your vision so if you are not looking directly at something, you might not see it.
Changes are, with the angle and the relative closer speeds, the helicopters likely never saw the C130.
As for the C130 crew, they were flying into the sun, which makes it hard to see anyways, and the cobra is a small target to see outside the window.
@@JPatterson61586 Technical discussions aside, it looks weird the way the collision was portrayed in the video. TFC to be blamed? 😅 No. Maybe my perception is to be. Top video as always!
I knew the senior Cobra pilot in this incident. We had been in a previous squadron together.
May God comfort the families of those who perished. My condolences 🙏