Ridiculously awesome Tony!!! I have been praying for someone to dig into the Z Cam color more. I have always felt like something wasn't converting right and just couldn't put my finger on it.
hi!My Davinci is 18.6 and i can't find ARRI Alexa (Output) and ARRI LogC (Output Gamma) when i add Color Space Transform there are just ARRI Wide Gamut4 and ARRI LogC4(gamma)
i tested and i like it! thanks for sharing! zcam need to edit own lut! p.s. filmconvert if to correct settings , will better than zcam plugin or zcam lut!
Great video Tony! I'm planning on getting a Zcam to be plugged into a Ninja V. I use Resolve Studio and I'm wondering if I can work with Zcam RAW in Resolve... if there is a workflow. I've heard that you can't. Perhaps using ACES?
Tony, I've watched this video multiple times and I still can't see pointers/reference line that you're looking at when you are adjusting the extents in the vector scope with the color warper.
There is a ball of colors (red, yellow, green, cyan, blue, magenta) and corresponding boxes. I am pulling those values (color balls) toward the corresponding boxes.
Thank You so much for so valuable info! I liked the Alexa results the most from this video. Did you compared their Zcam plugin to these results, is it better the same or worse? To your opinion is it worth to pay for cinematch or results are similar with this workflow?
I found better results without cinematch because I can control the transform more effectively without it. I don't use the zcam plug-in at all, you'd have to do some experimentation to find what works better for you personally. I like to use the same workflows I'm used to whenever possible without relying on third party plugins.
Hey Tony... according to Roger, the ZCam's max output via the HDMI cable into the Ninja V, is 1080p. But ZCam's specs. state 4:2:2 10-Bit via HDMI 3840 x 2160 at 59.94 fps, 3840 x 2160 at 59.94 fps. Am I misunderstanding something? Still wondering if the ZCam E2-S6 is a wise choice. I usually shoot 4K UHD @ 29.97 into a Ninja V on a GH5.
Sony sensors are used in a number of devices however the log curves and color gamuts used for log encoding can vary significantly from camera to camera even though outputs to rec709 display as shown here can result in similar results. In this case, S-log is almost exactly what zlog2's curve is and although close, sgamut3.cine is not the exact color gamut zlog2 is using. If it was, it would be as accurate as a Sony camera sgamut3.cine transform. Other companies use Sony sensors as well but have totally different log curves and gamuts including Nikon, Panasonic, and Fuji.
Hey wonder if you could help me? I'm having problems with figuring out when filming whether to use waveform on Native zlog2 image to determine exposure or do I put the rec709 monitor LUT on and then determine my exposure (false colour/waveform) based on that? rec709 LUT much darker than zlog2 so which one do I trust to get best exposure?
I do not shoot with these cameras, but if it is like any other camera I have ever shot with, exposing based on the LUT is a "NO" for me in most cases even though some very well known and popular Cinematographers disagree with me. The reason is because the LUT does not tell you what the camera is actually capturing and it can be misleading because of this. You may alter your exposure to match an output LUT that could show crushed shadows or destroyed highlights so you change exposure to compensate, which will in turn cause you to underexpose or over expose when it isn't necessary. In my experience, this is a leading cause of complaints regarding noisy footage in post by people who are experts in the field. They under expose to save highlights when it was not necessary at all. The LUT also can have clipping at certain IRE values (soft clips) implemented that will never allow highlights or shadows reach their actual clipping points, which will trick the exposure meters to think that you don't have crushed or clipped values when in fact, you do. This will make for a big surprise in post production. If you do not believe me, leading supplier of higher end monitors SMallHD recommends NOT exposing based on the LUT if you plan to grade and instead suggest you expose based on the log or raw signal. In my opinion, exposing based on log makes the most sense since you can see exactly what is actually captured and if you instead would rather expose based on a LUT you plan to use, always expose BOTH the log and LUT signal and never JUST the LUT signal. This way you can see both: A: What the camera is actually capturing. B: What the final look should be. Hope this helps.
@@TonyDae Really appreciate your response - Thankyou. This is what makes sense to me also. The log is what is actually being captured so surely need to focus on exposure based off of that information. Thankyou.
I have just bought Davinci Resolve 18 and the options for "Arri Alexa" and "Arri LogC" do not appear in the color space transform options - is there a way to download these preferences?
Not sure what you mean. DP should note any particulars to post-production team. If you are both DP and doing post, you need to figure out your own way to communicate appropriately.
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Big thank you to Roger in Finland! See his work at: ruclips.net/user/Rutxer
Thanks so much for the shout-out!
Fun story: I thought I was smiling for the test shot 😅
Great demonstration Mr. Dae.
Great work Tony!! And I have a ton of testing to do with my E2c now 👏🏻👌🏻👍🏻
Ridiculously awesome Tony!!! I have been praying for someone to dig into the Z Cam color more. I have always felt like something wasn't converting right and just couldn't put my finger on it.
thank you for this
Thanks so much man .. this is so helpful I see the difference between cst and just using a lut 🙏🏿🙏🏿
Thank you so much ! So much easier to have a “matching” lut for shoot when I have the dragon and the zcam !
Dude! Thats such a helpful video! Thanks a bunch!🙏
Thanks Roger and thanks Tony Dae
You're an ace, a life saver my guy.
Great video my friend
Great info. I am also trying to find a nice work flow for my e2 m4 zlog2 workflow with davinci
hi!My Davinci is 18.6 and i can't find ARRI Alexa (Output) and ARRI LogC (Output Gamma) when i add Color Space Transform there are just ARRI Wide Gamut4 and ARRI LogC4(gamma)
i tested and i like it! thanks for sharing! zcam need to edit own lut! p.s. filmconvert if to correct settings , will better than zcam plugin or zcam lut!
Np! I have a video going over cinematch with zlog in this channel :)
@@TonyDae I have Cinematch. Can't wait to check that out. I have a project with Z Cam, GH5 and Pocket 4k footage in the same timeline.
Great video Tony! I'm planning on getting a Zcam to be plugged into a Ninja V. I use Resolve Studio and I'm wondering if I can work with Zcam RAW in Resolve... if there is a workflow. I've heard that you can't. Perhaps using ACES?
Resolve won't recognize proresraw. You'll need to convert into 12bit 4444 prores or dnxhr to get it into resolve and maintain the most data.
Tony, I've watched this video multiple times and I still can't see pointers/reference line that you're looking at when you are adjusting the extents in the vector scope with the color warper.
There is a ball of colors (red, yellow, green, cyan, blue, magenta) and corresponding boxes. I am pulling those values (color balls) toward the corresponding boxes.
In the color transform to arri you were saying canon cinema gam. Clog3? After that
Thank You so much for so valuable info! I liked the Alexa results the most from this video. Did you compared their Zcam plugin to these results, is it better the same or worse? To your opinion is it worth to pay for cinematch or results are similar with this workflow?
I found better results without cinematch because I can control the transform more effectively without it. I don't use the zcam plug-in at all, you'd have to do some experimentation to find what works better for you personally. I like to use the same workflows I'm used to whenever possible without relying on third party plugins.
Hey Tony... according to Roger, the ZCam's max output via the HDMI cable into the Ninja V, is 1080p. But ZCam's specs. state 4:2:2 10-Bit via HDMI
3840 x 2160 at 59.94 fps, 3840 x 2160 at 59.94 fps. Am I misunderstanding something? Still wondering if the ZCam E2-S6 is a wise choice. I usually shoot 4K UHD @ 29.97 into a Ninja V on a GH5.
I don't shoot the camera at all so I wouldn't know, sorry!
it's a sony sensor in the zcam
Sony sensors are used in a number of devices however the log curves and color gamuts used for log encoding can vary significantly from camera to camera even though outputs to rec709 display as shown here can result in similar results. In this case, S-log is almost exactly what zlog2's curve is and although close, sgamut3.cine is not the exact color gamut zlog2 is using. If it was, it would be as accurate as a Sony camera sgamut3.cine transform.
Other companies use Sony sensors as well but have totally different log curves and gamuts including Nikon, Panasonic, and Fuji.
Hey wonder if you could help me?
I'm having problems with figuring out when filming whether to use waveform on Native zlog2 image to determine exposure or do I put the rec709 monitor LUT on and then determine my exposure (false colour/waveform) based on that?
rec709 LUT much darker than zlog2 so which one do I trust to get best exposure?
I do not shoot with these cameras, but if it is like any other camera I have ever shot with, exposing based on the LUT is a "NO" for me in most cases even though some very well known and popular Cinematographers disagree with me.
The reason is because the LUT does not tell you what the camera is actually capturing and it can be misleading because of this. You may alter your exposure to match an output LUT that could show crushed shadows or destroyed highlights so you change exposure to compensate, which will in turn cause you to underexpose or over expose when it isn't necessary. In my experience, this is a leading cause of complaints regarding noisy footage in post by people who are experts in the field. They under expose to save highlights when it was not necessary at all.
The LUT also can have clipping at certain IRE values (soft clips) implemented that will never allow highlights or shadows reach their actual clipping points, which will trick the exposure meters to think that you don't have crushed or clipped values when in fact, you do. This will make for a big surprise in post production.
If you do not believe me, leading supplier of higher end monitors SMallHD recommends NOT exposing based on the LUT if you plan to grade and instead suggest you expose based on the log or raw signal.
In my opinion, exposing based on log makes the most sense since you can see exactly what is actually captured and if you instead would rather expose based on a LUT you plan to use, always expose BOTH the log and LUT signal and never JUST the LUT signal. This way you can see both:
A: What the camera is actually capturing.
B: What the final look should be.
Hope this helps.
@@TonyDae Really appreciate your response - Thankyou.
This is what makes sense to me also.
The log is what is actually being captured so surely need to focus on exposure based off of that information.
Thankyou.
I have just bought Davinci Resolve 18 and the options for "Arri Alexa" and "Arri LogC" do not appear in the color space transform options - is there a way to download these preferences?
THey should be there. Please feel free to join the Discord for issues like this.
@@TonyDae Thankyou - I rang Blackmagic support and they can't tell me why it's not there - so weird.
@@TonyDae Seems they've gotten rid of these in lieu of Arri LogC3/4 and ARRI Wide Gamut 3/4
Will this work the same way for ProresRaw I'm new to Zcam thanks for your info
Proresraw is not currently compatible with Davinci Resolve.
@@TonyDae thanks for the info i use you're technic to cover with Sony but in RAW to Log it help me to get a good starting point in FCPX
How do you know you exposed by 1stop or 2?
Not sure what you mean. DP should note any particulars to post-production team. If you are both DP and doing post, you need to figure out your own way to communicate appropriately.