I was very suprised how this turned out, just a little test that me and some friends in the industry were talking about it and figured I would film the process of it, I am going to swap my cassette over to a sram and get some rides in on it for real world situations I will have a follow up video once i get about 1000 miles on it, but it might be a little slower because the kids are back at school
Hi Grant, will it work the other way around? I am planning to build a SEKA Exceed with SRAM Rival AXS that has 52-36 chainring then 12 speed Ultegra 11-30 cassette? Thanks!
I'm glad GC performance did this test. I find it strange that Shimano 12 speed has only two cassette options: 11-30 and 11-34. If you are racing, you are going to want the tightest cassette possible to maximize cadence efficiency. For instance the 11 speed 11-23 is great for crits and road races with minimal hills and 11-28 for the hilly days. But these new options don't improve upon the 11 speed status quo. Hence, you have riders like Pogacar riding around with a 30 tooth that he doesn't need for most races. SRAM has a wide range of options that improve upon the 11 speed, while Shimano doesn't. This makes me wonder if Jumbos, move from Shimano to SRAM was for the gearing options.
Wife’s team was sponsored last year by SRAM and Wahoo. The xdr hub for the wahoo got misplaced before she started using the kicker, so put a 12 speed 105 cassette (11-34) on the trainer and worked well with the SRAM chain and wasn’t too concerned from a wear perspective as it was steel chain on steel cassette. This year and next year will be Dura Ace so the investment on the cassette worked out. We did find the Xdr body this year, about 12 mos too late. Haha.
Same - been running Red 12s front & rear with shifters & brakes for wireless ease of set up coupled with Dura ace chainset, cassette & chain. Absolutely spot on. Jusw wish SRAM would make the pro spec chainrings readily available...
@@user-lx6pk9os2dhey I’m trying to do the same. So if I understand you correctly, you’re running Shimano 12s crank, cassette and chain with sram axs front and rear derailleur?
@@scottykicker27makes sense to keep the cassette, chain set and chain from the same brand and the chain is made to interact with the teeth and ramps Derailleurs just move the chain left and right; they don't care what chain they are moving.
This literally solves a new problem I have and have been wondering about. I just got a new trainer and I use a force cassette, but don’t want to buy an xdr driver for it so I was just gonna send it with the shimano ultegra cassette. But this takes the doubt out of it thank you!
Warning: Ethirteen says it’s not meant for gravel bikes. I had this exact setup and the shifting has spotty moments. On a sprint going 38mph it skipped and unleashed a whole chain of events creating a yard sale of parts and wheels and tires underneath me. Rode a public bus home with half my kit in shards.
I also setup my current bike as Sram-mano! I have an 11 sp Shimano HG hub with R7000 11-32 cassette, R7000 crank. Shifters and derailleurs are 11 spd Sram Red Etap Wifli. Been riding this setup for about 6 months! Very happy with it! To add more controvesy, it's also mechanical "Klampers" disc calipers from Paul Engineering.
The opposite is a life saver for folks that have an old freehub on 11 spd wheel and want to use Sram AXS they can use a Shimano 12 spd cassette on there with AXS groupset
@@sbccbc7471 yeah had no issues, i'd imagine long term it might cause more wear and tear than using all the same brand parts but honestly it seemed to work fine, put a few 1000w+ sprints on it and it seemed fine. Was actually surprised the 11spd crankset worked so well too
Old video but this is new and great news to me thanks as I’ve just bought a crux with GRX and was wanting to use my zipp wheels but have found they don’t do a microspline free hub for zipp. I can now use a xdr with a sram 10-44 or 46 instead
Does this work well you you? And do you think I'll be able to run my DT Swiss wheels with XDR 10-30 cassette on a Shimano GRX RX822 12s 1by setup using a Shimano CN-M7100 12s chain?
Great video! And yeah I got the eyebrows raised with my force axs deraileur with the Ultegra 12spd cassette (force cassettes were rare and pricy in my area) . I saved money by not having to buy the XDR driver too. Win win, works fantastic…… oh I did use the eagle 12spd chain to mesh with my rotor 1x crank beautifully. The shimano hg 12spd chain didn’t mesh with the rotor chainring.
Haven't noticed short life doing this. I'm getting over 5000miles out of my 12sp SRAM cassettes with Shimano chains. I've refused to run SRAM chains for the last 200k miles I've ridden so I can't say how long it would last with a SRAM chain. But it's wearing better than my 11sp SRAM cassettes wore with Shimano chains.
Should be mentioned that the pin diameter of the SRAM AXS chains is larger than the shimano chains. (Which is why SRAM claims the chain is proprietary.) This will certainly work, however it’s probably not going to wear as expected. The added “slop” between the chain pins and the radius/trough of the cogs is going to allow more movement, which will likely accelerate wear due to slip. I’m assuming that’s what is contributed to the pronounced “pop” from one gear to the next. Could be wrong, but may be useful information. 🤷🏻♂️
Makes sense to me. I think it's better to keep the chain, cassette and chain rings from the same brand. It should be OK to use shifters and derailleurs from a different brand as long as the cog spacing is similar.
@ Agreed entirely. I’ve considered building a SRAM 1x bike with shimano chain cassette and aftermarket chainring because I’ve never been fond of SRAM’s shifting.
Ok my understanding was that the roller size of the flat top chain was bigger, making it incompatible. I'm too cheep to buy and measure a bunch of stuff tho....
@@janeblogs324 that actually makes sense, although I doubt the wear would be even enough around the tooth profile or across the different cogs. More testing required!
I did this on my bike 4 months ago and it’s been great. 52/10 is a great tailwind combo. Shimano FD, RD, shifters/brakes. Rotor crank. SRAM cassette and flattop chain.
You're the man bro..You're for the people..you always have interesting video that answers questions that the average biker always has questions on..will a sram flattop chain work on a 12 speed shimano set up????
I've been dreaming of doing a frankenstien creation for a new 29er build. Eagle trigger shifter AXS with sram rival or force rear derailleur on a Chris King R 45D XDR rear hub with a 10 28 ratio cassette with 985 XTR 30 44 crankset up front with 12 speed xtr chain. 127 gear inches top gear would allow me to easily keep up with road bike riders. 2015 Cannondale Trail SL 1 bike the bike around it.
works the other way arround also; I have SRAM Red shifters and derailleurs with Shimano Ultegra cassette on my TT bike - works perfect, crisp and fast, not one single misshift
@@GCPerformance18so I’m trying to do the same. I have Shimano 105 mechanical on my TT bike. I know I can get the older 11 speed etap and make it work but it’s much more expensive than the new rival axs. Unfortunately rival axs isn’t backwards compatible. I’m trying to find out if I can someone how run the axs system with just a 12 speed cassette or if I’ll need to find a 12 speed crankset also.
I've asked this question about 100 times, thanks for filming it. Basically, I have LOTS of HG wheels. Wouldn't it be great to upgrade to some form of AXS and use an HG compatible cassette (7100/8100/9200 or Prestacycle)? THANK YOU SO MUCH for testing this!
Yes, as they added more cogs, the spacing became narrower and standardized. It works ok with 10sp. I run 11sp SRAM cassettes on my bike with Campy Record/Chorus HO 11 and they work flawlessly (and I can run a 36t rear cassette!) A buddy runs the same with Campy 12sp.@@GCPerformance18
When looking for different gearing I've run SRAM 11-spd cassettes with Shimano groupsets before only because I they were cheaper and I thought they were compatible. I didn't think it mattered but I never had any problems with them. I didn't even have to adjust them.
@@GCPerformance18 no no SRAMANO. It’s what we call bikes at my work with part sram Part Shimano. Or foxshox with mtbs. Haven’t seen anything with srampagnolo though 😂
Great video! You should check out the KMC x12 chains which are now compatible with all 12 speed drivetrains. That means it will work with 12 speed road shimano and 12 speed road AXS. I'll email you a link since RUclips comments doesn't allow it.
@@GCPerformance18 yeah so that means you can run a sram road axs 12 speed cassette with shimano 12 speed drivetrain with no problems if you use the kmc x12 chain. I sent you a link in the email.
I'll keep you updated on my AliExpress-Sram groupset I'm building atm! Bought the new KMC (work with anything) chain, 12 speed Ali chainset and cassette with Sram derailleurs and shifters! Fingers crossed
Thats cool, I run a 11/34 with a 53/39. I'm big and heavy lol. Need that granny gear in the back. GC I bought 2 replacement head liner's from you for my Evade 2 got them in the mail yesterday thanks.
there are numerous accounts that it works fine. I'm about to use this: 11sp r7000 crankset, 12sp chain, 12sp cassette ultegra, force axs front and rear derailleur
This is essentially simulating a worn cassette with a new chain. Clearly not by a huge amount, but we all know how this works out, the chain will wear very quickly.
Great video. I love the looks of the flattop chain. Might give it a try on my Ultegra set. Off-topic question: Which computer mount you are using on your bar? Looks nice!
I feel the same way...I always liked the look of the flattop sram chain.. I like shimano's 12 speed di2 drivetrain more but always wanted to use srams flattop chain for the sleek machine-like look of it.
This combination 52/36 with 10-30 or 10-33 could be nice for me. Why didn' t you use sram cassette with sram chain (with rest of Shimano) and vice versa? I have heard that same brand cassette + chain usually works without problems (but different cassette + chain makes problems sometimes)...
Interesting vid - pls could try using a 12sp shimano cassette with sram axs RD - [as a cx rider i have a number of rear wheels/tyre combinations for different conditions that i swap around - i could then use my existing shimano 11sp wheels rather than trying to source an xdr freehub ]
That's not surprising. Maybe this video is specifically about the 12 speed DI2, but people have been using SRAM cassettes on Shimano for years. I just put a SRAM 9 speed cassette on my Ultegra. It works well.
What about using a gravel or even a race cassette on a mountainbike? My Cannondale Scalpel came stock with an SLX 10-51 cassette. But I live in the Netherlands and I have never used a biggen gear then the 33 in the back. This leaves me with 3 unused gears. So it would be interesting to see if this 10-33 cassette could work on a mountainbike!
Do you think I'll be able to run my DT Swiss wheels with XDR 10-30 cassette (usually running a flattop chain) on a Shimano GRX RX822 12s 1by setup using a Shimano CN-M7100 12s chain set up to GRX 10-45 cassette.
Hi GC, old video but super useful. Were you able to test this out for a long term review? I read that using a SRAM chain would make more sense for the cassette, would you agree or is it better to have the shimano chain for compatibility with the chainring? thanks!
I was wondering if I have a shimano xtr drivetrain on my mtb with a cassette 10-51, can I switch to sram axs xx1 derailleur and shifter? I want to have electronic gears but I don’t want to change the entire drivetrain. Thanks for the videos!
I personally wouldn't try this out, larger rear cogs are more finicky, and unlike shimano stuff you can't micro adjust each gear with AXS. If you have a friend who has AXS it would be worth trying out before buying, but I wouldn't drop the cash for something unless you know it works.
I was thinking of running the new 12 speed sram force chainring with flat top chain on my ultegra 12 speed groupset. I'm wondering if this would work with 11-34 shimano cassette on 50/37 sram force D2 axs chainring.
Shouldn’t the chain be incompatible with a SRAM cassette? I thought the rollers were bigger on the SRAM 12sp chains to reduce friction on the 10t cog? So while it shifts well, the Shimano chain might experience excessive wear on a SRAM 10t cog?
On the full Rival-but-12spd-ultegraCassette-Test, would that set up still function with a shimano-12spd-chain? Curious to know if the shimano 12-spd chain will work with Rival Crankset? or are the tolerance on the SRAM crankset only accepts the AXS-flattop chains.
I would think so but with sram they say you need to use there flatop chain because it is thinner to accomdate the thinn cassette in the back, so why would they make such a skinny chain if they are all the same
Whats magical about the chain? But you can use the chain as well. I suspect the shifting doesnt know the difference in chains. The derailleur just shifts the chain.
Hi, i want to do this setup on my bike, currently running full ultegra di2 12 speed 50-34 / 11-30. Sram road casette is one piece construction like their MTB casettes ? This is the only reason i want to do it because i don't like shimano casettes with spacers and such gear pieces, it's such a mess and on my XC MTB i have full XTR setup with Garbaruk 10-51 one piece casette that runs with microspline freehub body... Also using auto front derilleaur shifting mode. So i don't think i do need new longer chain for this.
Awesome video, also really surprised out it turned out as well too. I was wondering if anyone in the comments has tried this and if no one has what are people's thoughts! Sram Force AXS Shifters Sram Force AXS FD Sram Force AXS RD (Max 36t) Sram Force Cassette (10-36) KMC 12 Speed Chain Dura Ace 9000 Crankset (52-36) / 11speed Sram XDR hubs on an alloy wheelset I have a 11 speed pioneer crankset in the front that I've used with a prior Sram Red 10 speed mechanical groupset. Yes, I've dropped the chain maybe once or twice and yes I realize that this isn't "ideal". I wanted to see if I could roll with this setup, 11 speed crank with all 12 speed, without any heinous problems without having to source a brand new BB and power meter. Thank you all in advance and safe riding!
And what about 34 11 and 10 with shimano 12 speed group? I have force 12 speed cassette and when I put the gear it works till 34 12. Is this normal? All other gears are ok but 34x11 and 34x10 do not work
GC, how well does this work with a SRAM crank on an otherwise Shimano drivetrain? I pretty much hate all things 12 speed. The tolerances are so tight I find I have to fiddle iwth things too much. I have a a RED AXS crankset that is spectacularly stiff and have been considering trying to pair with an Ultegra 11 speed system.
same way, I put a shimano wheel cassette on a sram rival bike and worked great, I dont know for the 11 speed though, I would still recommend 12 speed to 12
Great vid! How about adding a sram axs chain to the shimano setup icw the sram red cassette? Thinking it´s gonna be a little bit more quality shifting than the stock shimano 12sp chain, let me know if you test these ;). Gonna do some tests be myself!
Shimano casette just does shift better. I had the same issue with sram force when in one gear it would not just shift up no matter what. Adjusted RD a number of times myself, by LBS but none of that would help. Force casette is noisy in general. Did not experience shift up issue with Red casette and it is way more silent. Anyways, riding new Ultegra now - happy as ever!
How about a chain sizing video? Was always told that small/small gives the longest chain length. But how does that hold true if you're going from 11/28 to an 11/32? You obviously had to increase the chain length.
thanks for the test!! Today I have a sram force group, as you know it is very noisy. Do you think i could reduce the noise transmision, with an ultegra 12s cassette?
what do you mean industry taboo ? i ride mixed shimano/sram components 5-6 years so far .. they are compatible on 11 ,speed mtb ,on 12 speed mtb ,why not on road ?
10t is a very hard gear. It’s the reason why SRAM cranksets use smaller chainring sizes than Shimano. To make the pedaling feel the same as standard size cranks. While still utilizing the same gear ratio, but using a smaller chainring. Shimano decided to add 16t instead on 12 speed. Since an extra cog provides you a smaller jump in gear, provides you a more comfortable cadence for riding at any speed. Which is what generally appeals to a wider range of riders. So unless you are racing or doing a time trial. Having 10t isn’t really useful at all. Most recreational riders don’t even touch the 11t gear. Since they don’t usually go as fast or strong at all.
The 12 speed ultegra comes with the option of the 34-11 , which is better for the hills, and the 11 cog is plenty fast enough, and you’d never be flat out on a gravel bike. With a 52/36 chainring this set up is pointless. With a 50/34 the 10 tooth might make the high range more convenient and with a really good low range, but a 52/36 is pointless
i am looking for a different setup, shimano 12 s casette ultegrA 8100, shimano 12 s chain , shimano 52/36 crank and sram force axs upgrade kit shifters and levers. WILL IT WORK ? the main question is about 52/36 oval rotor chainrings compatibility with SRAM froce axs derailleurs help me with some answers please. :)
*the main reason for this that is my bike is a rimbrake setup and new shimanos are only disc brake so if i like go electric i need to move to sram cause old di2 are practically unbuyable, and also sram will be easier to set up :)
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
I was very suprised how this turned out, just a little test that me and some friends in the industry were talking about it and figured I would film the process of it, I am going to swap my cassette over to a sram and get some rides in on it for real world situations I will have a follow up video once i get about 1000 miles on it, but it might be a little slower because the kids are back at school
I was wondering about noise, because many times I heard the sram system are much louder than Shimano system is it still true?
Hi Grant, will it work the other way around? I am planning to build a SEKA Exceed with SRAM Rival AXS that has 52-36 chainring then 12 speed Ultegra 11-30 cassette? Thanks!
I'm glad GC performance did this test. I find it strange that Shimano 12 speed has only two cassette options: 11-30 and 11-34. If you are racing, you are going to want the tightest cassette possible to maximize cadence efficiency. For instance the 11 speed 11-23 is great for crits and road races with minimal hills and 11-28 for the hilly days. But these new options don't improve upon the 11 speed status quo. Hence, you have riders like Pogacar riding around with a 30 tooth that he doesn't need for most races. SRAM has a wide range of options that improve upon the 11 speed, while Shimano doesn't. This makes me wonder if Jumbos, move from Shimano to SRAM was for the gearing options.
Wife’s team was sponsored last year by SRAM and Wahoo. The xdr hub for the wahoo got misplaced before she started using the kicker, so put a 12 speed 105 cassette (11-34) on the trainer and worked well with the SRAM chain and wasn’t too concerned from a wear perspective as it was steel chain on steel cassette.
This year and next year will be Dura Ace so the investment on the cassette worked out.
We did find the Xdr body this year, about 12 mos too late. Haha.
Running Sram derailleurs and shifters with Ultegra 12s crankset, chain and casette. Pretty good!
Same - been running Red 12s front & rear with shifters & brakes for wireless ease of set up coupled with Dura ace chainset, cassette & chain. Absolutely spot on. Jusw wish SRAM would make the pro spec chainrings readily available...
@@user-lx6pk9os2dhey I’m trying to do the same. So if I understand you correctly, you’re running Shimano 12s crank, cassette and chain with sram axs front and rear derailleur?
@@scottykicker27makes sense to keep the cassette, chain set and chain from the same brand and the chain is made to interact with the teeth and ramps Derailleurs just move the chain left and right; they don't care what chain they are moving.
This literally solves a new problem I have and have been wondering about. I just got a new trainer and I use a force cassette, but don’t want to buy an xdr driver for it so I was just gonna send it with the shimano ultegra cassette. But this takes the doubt out of it thank you!
If you want even wider gears, e13 makes cassettes with a 9 tooth cog. I use an 11sp one with my grx to give my gravel bike a higher top end.
That's why I use Rotor cassettes
Warning: Ethirteen says it’s not meant for gravel bikes. I had this exact setup and the shifting has spotty moments. On a sprint going 38mph it skipped and unleashed a whole chain of events creating a yard sale of parts and wheels and tires underneath me. Rode a public bus home with half my kit in shards.
I also setup my current bike as Sram-mano! I have an 11 sp Shimano HG hub with R7000 11-32 cassette, R7000 crank. Shifters and derailleurs are 11 spd Sram Red Etap Wifli. Been riding this setup for about 6 months! Very happy with it! To add more controvesy, it's also mechanical "Klampers" disc calipers from Paul Engineering.
The opposite is a life saver for folks that have an old freehub on 11 spd wheel and want to use Sram AXS they can use a Shimano 12 spd cassette on there with AXS groupset
I ran an ultegra 12sp cassette and a 105 crankset with AXS until my XDR freehub and Dub BB arrived, it sure confused some people but it worked fine.
@@gerardalmelor4554 Can the rollers fully seat between the teeth? (since the diameter is bigger than usual)
@@sbccbc7471 yeah had no issues, i'd imagine long term it might cause more wear and tear than using all the same brand parts but honestly it seemed to work fine, put a few 1000w+ sprints on it and it seemed fine. Was actually surprised the 11spd crankset worked so well too
@@sbccbc7471 also in saying that, im not a bike mechanic and do this at your own risk
@@gerardalmelor4554 I don't want to do it anyway.
Old video but this is new and great news to me thanks as I’ve just bought a crux with GRX and was wanting to use my zipp wheels but have found they don’t do a microspline free hub for zipp. I can now use a xdr with a sram 10-44 or 46 instead
Does this work well you you? And do you think I'll be able to run my DT Swiss wheels with XDR 10-30 cassette on a Shimano GRX RX822 12s 1by setup using a Shimano CN-M7100 12s chain?
Great video! And yeah I got the eyebrows raised with my force axs deraileur with the Ultegra 12spd cassette (force cassettes were rare and pricy in my area) . I saved money by not having to buy the XDR driver too. Win win, works fantastic…… oh I did use the eagle 12spd chain to mesh with my rotor 1x crank beautifully. The shimano hg 12spd chain didn’t mesh with the rotor chainring.
no issues so far? i am planning same thing as my hub is not compatible with SRAM
Your shop looks exactly like one I visit when we are vacationing down in Deerfield Beach Florida!
Roller diameter is slightly different on SRAM chains now. So cassette wear rate will increase with a dura ace chain.
Haven't noticed short life doing this. I'm getting over 5000miles out of my 12sp SRAM cassettes with Shimano chains. I've refused to run SRAM chains for the last 200k miles I've ridden so I can't say how long it would last with a SRAM chain. But it's wearing better than my 11sp SRAM cassettes wore with Shimano chains.
I have been running a 12 speed Shimano cassette with my Force SRAM this summer because my road was out of commission it works great 1000 miles in
yea I just finished a build with new sram froce 12 speed and a 12 speed ultegra cassette
I'm on RIVAL rotor and Ultegra 12s. Works like a charm
Wait up. We need to see more of that Rival AXS bike with the Shimano cassette. Did you try it with the Shimano chain? How about the front shifting?
it is a smooth on there
E*therteen has 9-34 cassettes that go on XDR bodies. They are for 1x gravel bikes
I use it with my grx double no problem
Should be mentioned that the pin diameter of the SRAM AXS chains is larger than the shimano chains. (Which is why SRAM claims the chain is proprietary.) This will certainly work, however it’s probably not going to wear as expected. The added “slop” between the chain pins and the radius/trough of the cogs is going to allow more movement, which will likely accelerate wear due to slip. I’m assuming that’s what is contributed to the pronounced “pop” from one gear to the next.
Could be wrong, but may be useful information. 🤷🏻♂️
Makes sense to me. I think it's better to keep the chain, cassette and chain rings from the same brand. It should be OK to use shifters and derailleurs from a different brand as long as the cog spacing is similar.
@ Agreed entirely. I’ve considered building a SRAM 1x bike with shimano chain cassette and aftermarket chainring because I’ve never been fond of SRAM’s shifting.
@RyonBeachner I also don't care for that 10t cog on Sram cassettes. But the Sram wireless derailleur appeals to me.
Ok my understanding was that the roller size of the flat top chain was bigger, making it incompatible. I'm too cheep to buy and measure a bunch of stuff tho....
Ah, does that mean it will make all my worn cassettes function again lol
@@janeblogs324 that actually makes sense, although I doubt the wear would be even enough around the tooth profile or across the different cogs. More testing required!
I did this on my bike 4 months ago and it’s been great. 52/10 is a great tailwind combo.
Shimano FD, RD, shifters/brakes. Rotor crank. SRAM cassette and flattop chain.
You're the man bro..You're for the people..you always have interesting video that answers questions that the average biker always has questions on..will a sram flattop chain work on a 12 speed shimano set up????
i ran the flattop chain on a ultegra 12sp cassette and 105 11sp crankset with axs deraileurs for a few weeks, had no issues
I've been dreaming of doing a frankenstien creation for a new 29er build. Eagle trigger shifter AXS with sram rival or force rear derailleur on a Chris King R 45D XDR rear hub with a 10 28 ratio cassette with 985 XTR 30 44 crankset up front with 12 speed xtr chain. 127 gear inches top gear would allow me to easily keep up with road bike riders. 2015 Cannondale Trail SL 1 bike the bike around it.
mountain stuff works really well together as well, I have done a ton of sram groups with shimano cassetees on them
works the other way arround also; I have SRAM Red shifters and derailleurs with Shimano Ultegra cassette on my TT bike - works perfect, crisp and fast, not one single misshift
yea I am finding alot of people are doing this
@@GCPerformance18so I’m trying to do the same. I have Shimano 105 mechanical on my TT bike. I know I can get the older 11 speed etap and make it work but it’s much more expensive than the new rival axs. Unfortunately rival axs isn’t backwards compatible. I’m trying to find out if I can someone how run the axs system with just a 12 speed cassette or if I’ll need to find a 12 speed crankset also.
Can tell that i tested ...shimano casset with campi...works fine
I've asked this question about 100 times, thanks for filming it. Basically, I have LOTS of HG wheels. Wouldn't it be great to upgrade to some form of AXS and use an HG compatible cassette (7100/8100/9200 or Prestacycle)? THANK YOU SO MUCH for testing this!
You are very welcome and that’s what happens with curiosity and the shop
Yeah, I will do the same, axs deraileur with shimano cassette and shimano chain.
Yes, and it works with Campy 12 as well....
holy shit that is good info I would assume they are all the same spacing
Yes, as they added more cogs, the spacing became narrower and standardized. It works ok with 10sp. I run 11sp SRAM cassettes on my bike with Campy Record/Chorus HO 11 and they work flawlessly (and I can run a 36t rear cassette!) A buddy runs the same with Campy 12sp.@@GCPerformance18
When looking for different gearing I've run SRAM 11-spd cassettes with Shimano groupsets before only because I they were cheaper and I thought they were compatible. I didn't think it mattered but I never had any problems with them. I didn't even have to adjust them.
Love a bit of Sramano
Shirm*
@@GCPerformance18 no no SRAMANO. It’s what we call bikes at my work with part sram Part Shimano. Or foxshox with mtbs. Haven’t seen anything with srampagnolo though 😂
52-10 gear ratio is equivalent to a 57-11, huge
I have a 50-9 set up. The equivalent of 61/11 😃
Great video! You should check out the KMC x12 chains which are now compatible with all 12 speed drivetrains. That means it will work with 12 speed road shimano and 12 speed road AXS. I'll email you a link since RUclips comments doesn't allow it.
I have those chains in stock, I’m sure it would be nice
@@GCPerformance18 yeah so that means you can run a sram road axs 12 speed cassette with shimano 12 speed drivetrain with no problems if you use the kmc x12 chain. I sent you a link in the email.
Please test the 105 Di2 11-36 on the Ultegra R8100. We need this to work in order to get anywhere close to the SRAM's low gear.
As far as I can tell this cassette is vapourware
I do this with mtb, use a Sram 10-42 with Xt group.
WOW. Thanks for the test!!!
you are very welcome!!!
im doing this on a trainer, saris h3 won’t shift into the biggest cog with 12 sp shimano cassette, heard sram works flawlessly
Okay, you definitely need some sort of intro when you're doing a skit at the beginning. Love this man.
I'll keep you updated on my AliExpress-Sram groupset I'm building atm! Bought the new KMC (work with anything) chain, 12 speed Ali chainset and cassette with Sram derailleurs and shifters! Fingers crossed
Excellent mechanical review from a hi end pro shop!!
Thats cool, I run a 11/34 with a 53/39. I'm big and heavy lol. Need that granny gear in the back.
GC I bought 2 replacement head liner's from you for my Evade 2 got them in the mail yesterday thanks.
Great video, cheers.
I'm wonder if Ultegra 12s drive train : crank, cassette and chain would work fine with force axs derailleurs? What do you think?
there are numerous accounts that it works fine. I'm about to use this: 11sp r7000 crankset, 12sp chain, 12sp cassette ultegra, force axs front and rear derailleur
I am swapping my shimano XTR rear derailrur and shifter with AXS on my MTB, the best of both worlds - wireless Hyperglide.
Didn't think axs chain would fit shimano chainring due to larger rollers on axs chain?
Yea me either but it did nice, even under pressure
This is essentially simulating a worn cassette with a new chain. Clearly not by a huge amount, but we all know how this works out, the chain will wear very quickly.
It could also suitable for the person who have a sram groupset bike and bought a smart trainer that comes with shimano cassette
What about front/rear mech and shifters sram rival and cassette ,chain ,front crank ultegra ?
That would be a nice one too. Maybe a later video
Great video. I love the looks of the flattop chain. Might give it a try on my Ultegra set.
Off-topic question: Which computer mount you are using on your bar? Looks nice!
I feel the same way...I always liked the look of the flattop sram chain.. I like shimano's 12 speed di2 drivetrain more but always wanted to use srams flattop chain for the sleek machine-like look of it.
Integrated out front mount by Specialized
This combination 52/36 with 10-30 or 10-33 could be nice for me. Why didn' t you use sram cassette with sram chain (with rest of Shimano) and vice versa? I have heard that same brand cassette + chain usually works without problems (but different cassette + chain makes problems sometimes)...
I got a hybrid system too but in eleven speed. All is sram red and crank arms are sram dub red but with ultegra plates. Maybe could work in 12s too
SRAM released new RED and I am wondering. what about putting 10-30 1290 cassette on R9200
hahahha this man is big brain thinker
Interesting vid - pls could try using a 12sp shimano cassette with sram axs RD - [as a cx rider i have a number of rear wheels/tyre combinations for different conditions that i swap around - i could then use my existing shimano 11sp wheels rather than trying to source an xdr freehub ]
That's not surprising. Maybe this video is specifically about the 12 speed DI2, but people have been using SRAM cassettes on Shimano for years. I just put a SRAM 9 speed cassette on my Ultegra. It works well.
Yea 9-11 speed worked amazing. But the 12 speed stuff they are specific about it no working
I'm surprised you need a 33 tooth cassette in Florida!
lol I do not, but I figured this would be the best ocnfigure to run this
What about using a gravel or even a race cassette on a mountainbike? My Cannondale Scalpel came stock with an SLX 10-51 cassette. But I live in the Netherlands and I have never used a biggen gear then the 33 in the back. This leaves me with 3 unused gears. So it would be interesting to see if this 10-33 cassette could work on a mountainbike!
Hi there, I have the same issue you have at minute 9:40. How was it solved? Thanks man! Great videos!!
Do you think I'll be able to run my DT Swiss wheels with XDR 10-30 cassette (usually running a flattop chain) on a Shimano GRX RX822 12s 1by setup using a Shimano CN-M7100 12s chain set up to GRX 10-45 cassette.
Hi GC, old video but super useful. Were you able to test this out for a long term review?
I read that using a SRAM chain would make more sense for the cassette, would you agree or is it better to have the shimano chain for compatibility with the chainring?
thanks!
Did you try the same configuration, but with flattop 12 speed sram chain
This is blasphemy. Proper authorities have been notified.
Cool and original content.
I was wondering if I have a shimano xtr drivetrain on my mtb with a cassette 10-51, can I switch to sram axs xx1 derailleur and shifter? I want to have electronic gears but I don’t want to change the entire drivetrain.
Thanks for the videos!
I personally wouldn't try this out, larger rear cogs are more finicky, and unlike shimano stuff you can't micro adjust each gear with AXS. If you have a friend who has AXS it would be worth trying out before buying, but I wouldn't drop the cash for something unless you know it works.
This might make SRAM go back to normal big rigs
Informative video, good looking 👍... How about an update and or comparison on the elite drive wheels and winspace.
Hey guys would a Shimano chainset work with the sram axs chain mec and dérailler !!!!
Any ideas 👍🏼
they seem very nice, but I do not know the longevity of how this will wear together
I was thinking of running the new 12 speed sram force chainring with flat top chain on my ultegra 12 speed groupset. I'm wondering if this would work with 11-34 shimano cassette on 50/37 sram force D2 axs chainring.
Hey, can you try to put on red chainring on new shimano 12s group set? I can’t find any result about this. Thank you!
Shouldn’t the chain be incompatible with a SRAM cassette? I thought the rollers were bigger on the SRAM 12sp chains to reduce friction on the 10t cog? So while it shifts well, the Shimano chain might experience excessive wear on a SRAM 10t cog?
I've also found the opposite. Sram 12 speed works on standard 12 speed, so you don't have to use any of the sram cassette / chainring options
What does this mean?
so now i can use chinese 12sp cassette and shimano chainring paired with rival axs groupset?
Can you try a flat top chain on Shimano and a Shimano chain on SRAM ?
Instead of putting a new chain on why did you not just lock out the 1st gear when on the big chain ring as you would be cross chaining anyway?
I wanted to get the full affect of everthing
On the full Rival-but-12spd-ultegraCassette-Test, would that set up still function with a shimano-12spd-chain? Curious to know if the shimano 12-spd chain will work with Rival Crankset? or are the tolerance on the SRAM crankset only accepts the AXS-flattop chains.
Is the spacing not the same for all 12 speed cassettes? You can only fit 12 into 135mm in a very limited way.
I would think so but with sram they say you need to use there flatop chain because it is thinner to accomdate the thinn cassette in the back, so why would they make such a skinny chain if they are all the same
Whats magical about the chain? But you can use the chain as well. I suspect the shifting doesnt know the difference in chains. The derailleur just shifts the chain.
Hi, i want to do this setup on my bike, currently running full ultegra di2 12 speed 50-34 / 11-30. Sram road casette is one piece construction like their MTB casettes ? This is the only reason i want to do it because i don't like shimano casettes with spacers and such gear pieces, it's such a mess and on my XC MTB i have full XTR setup with Garbaruk 10-51 one piece casette that runs with microspline freehub body... Also using auto front derilleaur shifting mode. So i don't think i do need new longer chain for this.
Awesome video, also really surprised out it turned out as well too. I was wondering if anyone in the comments has tried this and if no one has what are people's thoughts!
Sram Force AXS Shifters
Sram Force AXS FD
Sram Force AXS RD (Max 36t)
Sram Force Cassette (10-36)
KMC 12 Speed Chain
Dura Ace 9000 Crankset (52-36) / 11speed
Sram XDR hubs on an alloy wheelset
I have a 11 speed pioneer crankset in the front that I've used with a prior Sram Red 10 speed mechanical groupset. Yes, I've dropped the chain maybe once or twice and yes I realize that this isn't "ideal". I wanted to see if I could roll with this setup, 11 speed crank with all 12 speed, without any heinous problems without having to source a brand new BB and power meter. Thank you all in advance and safe riding!
How you can solve the problem with the brake rotor? Because I order already my sram cassette?
And what about 34 11 and 10 with shimano 12 speed group? I have force 12 speed cassette and when I put the gear it works till 34 12. Is this normal?
All other gears are ok but 34x11 and 34x10 do not work
Wouldn't this be easier to do with a 105 di2 rear derailleur?
maybeeee
GC, how well does this work with a SRAM crank on an otherwise Shimano drivetrain? I pretty much hate all things 12 speed. The tolerances are so tight I find I have to fiddle iwth things too much. I have a a RED AXS crankset that is spectacularly stiff and have been considering trying to pair with an Ultegra 11 speed system.
same way, I put a shimano wheel cassette on a sram rival bike and worked great, I dont know for the 11 speed though, I would still recommend 12 speed to 12
Great vid! How about adding a sram axs chain to the shimano setup icw the sram red cassette? Thinking it´s gonna be a little bit more quality shifting than the stock shimano 12sp chain, let me know if you test these ;). Gonna do some tests be myself!
Gracias por el experimento, me gustaría verlo en mi 650c de Carretera ahí tendría más sentido que en una 700c.
¡mil gracias!.
id really like to know if the shimano 12 speed cassettes work with ads so i dont need to change my free hubs
Shimano casette just does shift better. I had the same issue with sram force when in one gear it would not just shift up no matter what. Adjusted RD a number of times myself, by LBS but none of that would help. Force casette is noisy in general. Did not experience shift up issue with Red casette and it is way more silent. Anyways, riding new Ultegra now - happy as ever!
Very nice!! But on sram with sram it works all the time.
Running a compact 50/34 on a 9200 groupset. SRAM also has a 10-36 cassette. Do you think that it would work as well?
any update, did you stick with this setup?
33’s a bit small for a gravel bike
How about a chain sizing video? Was always told that small/small gives the longest chain length. But how does that hold true if you're going from 11/28 to an 11/32? You obviously had to increase the chain length.
Will my Claris work on Dura Ace Di2? 😂
Dope video, loving this
@GC Performance : try with AXS chain.. works like a charm.
Sram axs chain sram cassette? With SHIMANO drive train?
@@GCPerformance18 yes!
I have a ultegra + garbaruk narrow wide crankset. Will my sram axs work with it? My sram 1x crankset is unusable rn.
I think it should ot be honest I just dont know how it will do longevity wise over time
thanks for the test!! Today I have a sram force group, as you know it is very noisy. Do you think i could reduce the noise transmision, with an ultegra 12s cassette?
any problem when u backpeddle with the chain on the biggest cog at the back and the front on 52t ?
Fun to try, now shimano di2 is also wireless can you use shimano di2 shifters to shift a sram axs derailleur?
I don't think so.
No you can not, they have different pairing methods
Any news on the new colour ways for 2023 tarmac sl7 and allez disc ? Kind regards neil
Nothing yet which is really crazy
Can also use a shimano crank on a sram group
It’s alive! It’s alive!🤣
So can I run my Venge in a 1x setup with a real world range?
What if only the RD was Sram AXS. everything else is shimano. Will that work?
can you ride/switch to sram force etap but keep the shimano chainset and bottom bracket?
Will the 10-36t from rival axs work also for ultegra r8100?
what do you mean industry taboo ? i ride mixed shimano/sram components 5-6 years so far .. they are compatible on 11 ,speed mtb ,on 12 speed mtb ,why not on road ?
i do think shimano should go for a 10 tooth instead of 16. i think the range of the cassette outweight the con which is slightly less efficiency
10t is a very hard gear. It’s the reason why SRAM cranksets use smaller chainring sizes than Shimano. To make the pedaling feel the same as standard size cranks. While still utilizing the same gear ratio, but using a smaller chainring.
Shimano decided to add 16t instead on 12 speed. Since an extra cog provides you a smaller jump in gear, provides you a more comfortable cadence for riding at any speed. Which is what generally appeals to a wider range of riders. So unless you are racing or doing a time trial. Having 10t isn’t really useful at all. Most recreational riders don’t even touch the 11t gear. Since they don’t usually go as fast or strong at all.
The 12 speed ultegra comes with the option of the 34-11 , which is better for the hills, and the 11 cog is plenty fast enough, and you’d never be flat out on a gravel bike. With a 52/36 chainring this set up is pointless. With a 50/34 the 10 tooth might make the high range more convenient and with a really good low range, but a 52/36 is pointless
And you loss watts with the 10 tooth ceramic speed findings the larger the gears the less watts lost so again even more pointless
Everybody here is a superhuman and spins out a 52/11. Got to go with 52/10 to keep up.😂
where are duraace 11-34t, do you have any??
i am looking for a different setup, shimano 12 s casette ultegrA 8100, shimano 12 s chain , shimano 52/36 crank and sram force axs upgrade kit shifters and levers. WILL IT WORK ?
the main question is about 52/36 oval rotor chainrings compatibility with SRAM froce axs derailleurs
help me with some answers please. :)
*the main reason for this that is my bike is a rimbrake setup and new shimanos are only disc brake so if i like go electric i need to move to sram cause old di2 are practically unbuyable, and also sram will be easier to set up :)
Would a SRAM chain shift better?