When I left home in 1991 my mum put all my things she didn’t like in the bin or the shed, assuming she had binned my BSA Super Meteor I sulked for a bit and thought no more bout it until 2024 when we helped her move and cleared the house.. low and behold my Meteor emerged from the back of the shed like a slightly rusty Lord Lucan.. And it was still cocked…and loaded (whoops)… But after putting a few pellets through her I chrono’d it as it was still mincing tin cans at 10 yards.. 9 ft lbs No idea what it was before it went into the shed but seeing as I had had it since about 1984 and never re-sprung it I was amazed…
@@todderstaffes Ajay Madam Bill Koli of 1980 is lying in my house even today in much the same condition. i like it very much i like it very much I can also send you its picture Very accurate accurate songs Very accurate songs
I have a new 90k. No complaints at all. This rifle does it all. I had a 35e for over 30 years and it was a complete pile of crap. Eventually threw it on the bonfire. Kept the record trigger unit though.
The mk1 hw90 had a 65mm piston stroke compared to the 85mm piston stroke of the later mk2, the mk1 is better suited at maximum 11ftlbs or it shoots horrible, but at around 10.5ftlbs it is a absolute dream to shoot with PCP accuracy, I have two of them
I've got an early HW90 and experimented over the years (using genuine HW 90 barrels with the twin link holes in the breach block) in .177, .22 and .25 flavours. It's sat with a .25 barrel on it for the past 2 years, which I have to say is the best combination from my perspective. It give a soft but quick firing cycle and an absolute hoot to shoot. The Elite Trigger (2 variants over the years - the old ones are now unavailable) can be set up to be the 'almost' equal to a record unit. I actually prefer the reset-able safety on the trigger guard unit. If you get a chance to get hold of one of the Euro-Custom models - grab it with both hands. Have a Happy & Healthy New Year Nick. Keep up the great work
Enjoying your vids, and your willingness to answer my questions, thxU. Just getting to know my new to me, used HW90 .25, with 200 pellets already thru it. Love it so far. Took 2 hands to cock the way the original owner had it set [60LB by bathroom scale], so the assumption was it was left at full factory power, about 26BAR/ 370PSI. Used his H&N HORNET 22.07 grain pellet because he [previous owner] reported stacking pellets =.255” 6.47mm head/.258" skirt/ /656FPS/19.12fpe. The head was waaay too tight in the breach. Saving up for Pelletgage sorter, and your .25 pellet sizer or even smaller 6.34mm /6.33mm. While waiting to save up for [great fitting] H&N Field Target Trophy 20.06 grains / .249” 6.33mm head / .257mm skirt, and a 600PSI ROCKSHOX mountain bike hand suspension pump and their aluminum Schrader valve adapter with teflon tape [60 bucks], I started playing. At 12 feet ran great from 12.67FPE / 534FPS / 9 taps on valve from full, to 15.66FPE / 599FPS / 6 taps from full/ '' " to 18.28FPE avg/ 639.4FPS / 20BAR / 40LBS COCKING EFFORT. 637fps. Sorted by weight I got: FPS =18.08fpe 641 =18.31 642 =18.36 641 =18.31 636 =18.02 Got some Predator GTO 16.54 gr for Christmas so gonna ring HW90 .25 out at 33 feet with open sights with front ghost ring insert that is open around ring for more light, and both light pellets next. Moving forward, I will use Steve’s HARD AIR MAGAZINE’S Weihrauch HW90 Tuning Guide - How To Do It, What Results To Expect, at 33 feet. Aim small hit small. Very excited to find the best hi/ low tunes [indoors/ outdoors/ hunting waskily wabbits for both 16.54g and 20.006g pellets to start. Looks like Hades pellets have factory head size that will fit my breach, so as budget allows, they will be my first heavy pellet. The HW90 is easy to break down and repair, parts everywhere, elegant engineering, not part of waste stream/ planned obsolescence problem, been around for 40 years, even looks like HW90’s Schrader valve cores are still used in racing suspensions in four PSI setting ranges from Schrader Pacific Advanced Valves]. A range finding scope from Hector Medina at Connecticut Custom Airguns [helped develop Diana 34EMS from their NTec gas ram products], and a high grade zero recoil mount and I will be good to 60 yards or so.
Bought a Theoben Taunus in the mid nineties from the factory, beautiful stock, fabulous finish of the metal work. Very accurate to 25-30 yards using H&N FTT. Put out 10.5ft lbs new. Have tried pumping it up but accuracy was affected badly, so 10.5-11 ft lbs it is. Had the misfortune to purchase a BSA and Gamo gas ram from a shop that was closing down, big mistake, absolute shite, both guns will go on gun trader/star soon and be offered as spares or repair and any money for them will be given to charity. I shall keep the Theoben as it's got sentimental attachment unlike the Gamo/BSA. Good presentation and good luck with the overhaul 🙀👍
Can't hit a barn door with it, stock screws keep coming loose, despite thread locker. Located in west Wales. Complete with magazines, scope and original box.
@@williamlong2660 ok I'm south of Ireland so I can't travel that far 😂 .I have the single shot version of it the full power version out of the box I removed the rrr rail thats suppose to reduce the recoil for the scope. I fired atleast 2500 pellets true it and no problems . At 30 metres I can hit center on beer bottle caps . The scope I'm using is a CV life 3x9x40 .16 grain jts dead center pellets.22 suit it down to the ground.
Ireland,land of my forefathers, beautiful. Unlike the gamo maxim multi shot. So one day I am on my range and getting more frustrated by the shot when suddenly I thought what am I doing for in the gun cabinet there lies a hw77. Never shot the thing again 🙀🤔
I still have an old HW80k lefthand that I got before the wall came down, I did tune it back in 1988 for consistency and fitted a better guide tube and a carefully sized OX spring with washers and bicycle crank bearings at each end back in 1988 - its still running and not opened it for over 30 years.
Tim, terribly sorry but I phoned you and your wife answered the call, I had a Fenman with 3 Theoben barrels and a Steve Harper barrel, so all 4 calibres covered, in a nice fitted case, but she said something about a New Years resolution you'd made. Steve Harper also did a .25 conversion for the HW90, even rarer than Theoben versions. The 90 had one advantage over other Weihrauchs, the safety is resettable. When you strip it, there were 2 pistons used, the early ones were short stroked (and better by all accounts) and they all had a 'floating' inertia weight, for which the jury has been out for decades on whether it's a good thing or not, but the seals on it gum up and cause problems.
Looking forward to the strip and rebuild Nick. I think the 90 has always had the elite trigger. As an HW fan. when you handle a new 90 it just like great quality. Thanks for the video.
I have a Theoben built BSA Superstar with an adjustable gas ram. Only 250 guns ever made, absolutely brilliant gun. If BSA hadn't gone bust the Superstar would have been the first mass produced rammer & not the HW90....got that straight from Ben Taylor. And back in the 80's spring quality wasn't what it was today, so the gas rams did have that advantage then.
I recall theoben used nitrogen in there struts. This made them very stable regardless of external temperature. It was easy to see who had been playing with there power because the airgun became very temperature sensitive once the nitrogen had been diluted / removed . A nice brake barrel theoben was crisp and a joy to shoot 😊 And I believe the theoben rapid 7 mk1 had the gamo trigger unit, not a target trigger but when is cold outside you need a little resistance.
I bought a Eliminator, top of Theoben gas ram rifle, beautiful looking gun ,FAC model. What a load of rubbish ,Out shooting on 3 occasions, and total power loss, unreliable rubbish. At least Spring gun is reliable ,and you can service it yourselves. 😊
Don't know this for a fact, but I suspect that the Eliminator's were subject to more wear and tear due to the higher air pressure required. I have an HW90TB from (I believe) 1992, and a Sirocco Grand Prix HE from 1993 - original owner of both. Not had any leaking issues since, both running around 11.5ft/lbs. That said, while I would expect Eliminator seals to wear earlier, pressure loss after three uses is as you say, rubbish. However, it may actually be a simpler fix than you might think, and the guns aren't hard to work on - particularly with all the pressure gone! Got to de-gas the rifle to take it apart anyway. Most likely the Schrader valve needs replacing (easily damaged if someone has removed it and then screwed it back in too far), or the two o-rings on the dummy piston. As long as the internals are clean, and no burs inside, there aren't really any other things that should cause a leak.
@stephenwallace2423 perhaps it's the higher operating pressure, As gun was Fac rated, gun was bought new ,and as Pest controller, unreliable rifle no good to me , And don't have time ,or knowledge to repair, So back to Theoben, Carrage charges +, so not happy bunny.
Cometa also has gas ram/strut versions of their rifles ( at least Fenix/Fusion), or you can order a decently cheap gas ram kit from them to convert one from spring. The body of the ram goes into the piston and the rod goes into a cup in the plug/trigger group that the rear guide pulls out of. Nothing needs to be modified permanently so you can switch back and forth if you want. Haven't heard anything negative about them as of yet. Looking forward to watching the coming videos on this rifle.
Love your knowledge on guns nick and thank you for all your help and your time you gave me a true gent and Carson’s help with my paper work see you soon xden
I’ve just got a HW90k as a second air rifle to my Daystate Huntsman, I can’t wait to see more content on this gun, it would be great to understand your thoughts and experiences shooting it and anything you do to tune the gun to improve the shooting experience and accuracy.
Had a Theoben Olympus, sold it as I hated the rubbish trigger. Bought a 90, great rifle. FWIW, I think the Elite trigger is as good as the Rekord unit.
A wonderful post and love your honesty Back in the 90’s I was very impressed with the concept of Gas Ram. Never pulled the trigger in getting one but all these years later wondered if it might still be worth a punt. After this video and more recent info gathering I don’t think it’s such a good idea. Will carry on with my PCP’s and ‘manage’ my old BSA Lightning XL 😁
Thank you for doing a vid on the HW90. I have a HW90k that is about 5 years old, I traded my HW97k STL for it as the cocking was getting a little too much for my arthritis. I absolutely love the 90 and it is now producing 11.5flb (.22) after a little pump up. WOW you dont need much air to get the power up (from 8flb) Both parties where happy with the trade. I had been looking for info on resealing it and may give it a go once I have watched your progress.
Diana had their own Gas Strut rifles with Bilstein struts . Hatsan did some and some were adjustable with a PCP filling type probe. The Shark of Argentina apparently made the first gas ram rifle before Theoben , the CD455 . Vortek made a conversion for Weihrauch rifles but it did not take off and they were apparently trying it again . AWT/ Theoben aftermarket ones were available in the UK as you will know and they did one for the HW80 but it was not a big seller compared to the others they made.
A couple of observations on these. First, they seem really hard to cock, much harder than a spring Weihrauch, and you really have to position your finger carefully on the trigger (centre of the finger pad) for maximum accuracy. You also need to use the mount stop pin on your scope mount, as I've found the fast lock time causes the mount to creep if you don't.
If you leave your spring powered gun cocked for long periods of time the life of the spring will be shortened as opposed to cocking it just before taking the shot. This is not the case with a gas ram. Once the spring starts to wear out your spring powered gun will indeed lose power unlike a gas ram. I bought a Mauser A.M03 ( Diana) around 5 years ago. It has not lost any power despite being left cocked for many many hours over the years. It says made in Germany on the chamber. Very accurate gun at half the price of a HW90. So i would say that yes indeed a gas ram has an advantage over a spring powered gun.😊
@@mercury8180 and you can cock an HW80 fitted with a POWERLOK spring for month's , leave it and it'll have no adverse affect. Ivan Hancock told me that during a customizing project. Ivan was head of web/Ben. Good luck.
Got mine a few weeks ago. Came from Drapers in Nottingham and was doing 8ft Lb. A few pumps and a bit of tapping on the schrader valve got it to spot on 12 ft lb. Since then, it's been perfect. Bit heavy, so sling swivels also fitted. I use rws superdome .22. I'd buy another!
Very interested to see how this one goes. I'd love to see before/after chrono results associated with your videos, though I understand your shoulder problem may make that too uncomfortable to do at present.
Nick I have two gas ram Diana, 350 n-tec premium and Ar8 both .22 manufactured in 2016 from New, unlike what you're heard the to6 trigger works beautifully on them. Although the internals seems to be identical since I have relubed both an changed piston seal on Ar8.the 350 is much more civilized than Ar8, Easier to cock and quieter, both full power over 30 jules and very accurate, spesialy if you set them with heavy hefty tough scope to absorb the recoil. My Ar8 is the hardest to cock and my most powerful Air rifle by far, I filled the cavity in the butt full of rice and it helps with the shock. By the way they're so eazy to work, You can remove the piston not having to remove the barrel and using blue loctit is a must 😊
Yep. I well remember the great Arthur Shepherd of airgun world getting an early sirocco and also James Marchington. I bought one myself in 93 and still own it. It was beautiful and a great gun but tbh I preferred my mk1 hw80, which I also still own.
I converted an Air Arms EX88 with one of the Theoben gas rams they were selling year 2000ish. It's had many thousand of shots through it and still works well. Goes off with a sharp shot cycle, not harsh but it's different to the way it was with a spring. Would I do it again, no, but anything with the Theoben name back then was desirable. I'm still using the Dampamount they had going.
Hi Nick I’ve got a profile Fenman that is going to be refurbished in the next couple of months. And also I’ve got a TB90 which will be back together in a couple of weeks. The Tb 90 is in a euro stock which was made by CS stocks at Sheffield
Please, please, do not take any of the below commentary as criticism - I am actually really looking forward to your future videos on the HW90, as I am soon to start rebuilding my own. However, some of the things you said didn't line up with how I remembered things. Then again, we are talking thirty years ago..... Theoben = Dave THEObald and BEN *Taylor*. I had a thing for Theoben gas rams back in the day, and as I already owned a Webley Omega, my first purchase was one of the Theoben gas struts, made for them by AWT. That was followed by an early HW90TB (more on that later), and finally, a Sirocco Grand Prix HE. While the AWT gas struts didn't seem too bad, I would agree - the big advantage to the full-on gas rams is the adjustability, as well as making it easy to disassemble the rifle without requiring a spring compressor or sash cramp. Though you do then have to have a pump to either tune or re-assemble..... On the whole though, I would tend to avoid the rest of gas-struts and nitro-pistons. I'm not sure if I have everything straight here, as there were a few variations along the way, but I believe that the earliest Siroccos used BSA trigger parts - at the time, I think that BSA were still actually BSA. Theoben then switched to using mostly Webley trigger parts, but with their own trigger - the pivot pins, circlips, sear, auxiliary sear and cocking dog a look to be stock Webley. Bar the trigger blade itself, it's basically the same trigger as in the Omega, Eclipse or Patriot. This mainly Webley trigger assembly was used for the rifles that had a "push-up" mushroom safety button in front of the trigger guard, as well as for those that had a push forward safety bar inside the trigger guard. The Webley trigger is smooth, predictable (little if any creep once adjusted) and fairly crisp. The downside is it only adjusts for second stage position. They then switched to the Evolution trigger, which was said to be their own design. Not had any experience of the Evo myself, and have heard both good and bad about them pretty much equally. So either the Evo is very inconsistent, or set-up of the trigger is critical. I believe that the Gamo triggers were actually used on the Rapid PCPs, not the Sirocco. Speaking of triggers, the HW90 uses the Elite trigger - the Perfekt appears on some of the lower cost HW springers. Going back to the HW90TB, this actually uses an ambidextrous stock, very much like that on the Sirocco Countryman. However, the Countryman was a cheaper option, so it had a beech stock, whereas the HW90TB was meant to be a step above the stock HW90, so the TB stock was made from walnut! The step above the HW90TB was the "Euro" - this is the stock that had the Schnabel tip. Up until quite recently, all Diana spring and gas-ram airguns were still made in Germany, but they had started selling upgraded versions of Artemis/Snowpeak PCPs, from China. Outlaw = SPA M16; Skyhawk = SPA P15; there were also two very cheap models, the Bandit and Stormrider. They have recently started selling some cheaper spring guns, and I wouldn't be surprised if those were also Chinese, but the classic models - 34, 48, 52, 350 etc. - are still German to the best of my knowledge. Hope that info is helpful to someone out there! 😊
Knew I would forget something..... BTW, the Elite trigger, correctly set-up, really isn't far off of a Rekord trigger. Yes, it has to be different, but different isn't necessarily bad. Case in point, as another commenter mentioned, having a resettable trigger safety. Plus the fact that with a gas ram, the trigger HAS to be mounted under the rifle - there is no piston rod for the Rekord trigger to latch to. However, you still have the weight adjustment as well as sear engagement adjustment that you have on the Rekord. With all the changes that need to be made to accommodate the new safety and work with a gas ram, no the Elite will not feel the same as the Rekord, but it it far from being a bad trigger, and I am sure that anyone other afficianados of super light trigger pulls will be able to get it to suit their needs.
Not actually as complicated as you might think, though some models are more complicated than others. On the easier models, you have a cross pin that holds the dummy piston in to the body tube. This is held in place by a lock screw. Chances are that you are going to need to remove the sear from the trigger in order to remove the piston. So, remove the trigger sear; release pressure from the Schrader valve; remove the lock screw; push out the crosspin. You can now remove the dummy piston, inertia weight and the piston from the body tube, and do whatever maintenance you need to do. The upside is that once you have drained the pressure out of the ram, you don't have to worry about compressing or de-compressing a spring. Downside is of course, that you have to have a pump to re-pressurise the rifle when you put it back together.
Theoben Rapids had GAMO triggers, the rammers mostly had Webley Omega triggers & then their own Evolution. Both can be tuned to have a nice sweet spot. GAMO, Benjamin, Hatsan, Diana, BSA, Crosman....everyone has a non adjustable rammer now.......awful things.
@williamlong2660 The newer triggers were also labelled with the Evolution title. Their sweet spot was incredibly hard to find, with very small tweaks making a huge difference. Very easy to completely miss the spot.
I have a fenman in 22 I may part with. It's an early gun but shoots great. Might need a bit of restoration mind you. Let me know. It is a HE though with early silencer
I purchased my HW90 when i was living in Denmark and it was producing 28 foot pounds of energy..it was on my wish list for a long time... BUT, it was terrible to shoot. The recoil was violent, the cocking effort was an effort, to top it off it was very inaccurate... shooting Bisley Magnums..Since moving back to Blighty I had to reduce the gas pressure by way of the valve at the rear in order to comply with UK laws.. Now she is at 11.5 foot pounds the rifle performs superbly and is a dream to shoot..
@@andrewnevitt Yep it's hidden under a screw & you need an adapter to fit it too, you have to be very gentle tapping the valve to release air or the HP shrader valve will fail on older guns but they are cheap to replace.
Mines a 1992 it runs best @ around 15.5 ftlbs when in Spain lol ,, Cant wait for the Stripdown Vids Nick it needs some decent ones see ya on the AGF bro
The compressed spring thing gets my goat. You don’t have to do a top end overhaul on your car engine every time you park it up for a week for christs sake!
...hahaha...now that hurt!..'almost spiteful' talking about the Gamo and BSA Gas Rams....and you are SPOT ON!!..I have a few...which I must say I do enjoy....and the .177 limited to 24 joules here...but only by a smaller transfer port...so the felt recoil is exactly the same as if it were at 30 plus joules....OUCH! But hey, I'm also married to a Spanish woman so I clearly love pain! LOL
Dave Theobald and Ben Taylor were the original Theoben founders and I have owned many from Sirroco's to Slr 98, Evo, Fenman, Rapid, but that's a PCP so doesn't count here. The HW90 js a fine rifle, had many Theobens and still have 3 90's now, sadly sold my SLR98 and Fenman. The 90 is a different animal altogether and a very good rifle, but it's a lump to carry, much like the Pro Elite. UK 90'S have a very heavy piston with a counterweight much like a Fenman. The gas/air ram systems in Theoben rifles is I believe still under patent, and is very different to the gas strut systems found in Gamo junk. HW90's also have 2 points for the cocking arm to locate in the barrel block, thus increasing the stroke for countries without the 12 ft lbs restriction. I have 1 and a half in bits if you need anything, great video of one of my favourites, (well someboby has to like them),
Living here in Spain , I bought a Norica Dragon in 177 a few years ago. Spanish power is high, this over the chrono was shooting nearly 1300 f/s. I decided to fit a gas ram, low power one !! It was dreadful , so harsh , very fast but still whipped the pellets out at almost 1000 f/s. And made the trigger heavy too, very primitive trigger mechanism . I shot it like this for over a year, then after a long plinking session just before christmas , I thought I'd put the spring back . I sliced 3 coils off, flattened the ends, polished and nice machine washers on them. Now, its a pleasure to cock, and shoot . 9.6 foot pounds, perfect for a plinker , so good I shoot it over 12m in the house , not too loud . The gas ram had all but destroyed the piston seal on the rifle as well, luckily some where along the line, I think when I ordered the gas ram, I asked for 2 piston seals . That's my only experience of gas rams, and to be honest , I'm not over impressed in any way .
@@gerrybaillon1973 I got a Norica storm, didnt like the spring buzz, ordered a gas ram kit, but it was really hard to cock, delivered with over 20 joules and accuracy was bad so I took it out, ordered a new 44 turn spring and guides from A deportes (Also live here in Spain)😎 now shoots really well.
I once left a diana 350 magnum cocked for 3 months .it did the same output later .the diana 350 ntec is bad on the seals .they most bot thight ..and the gun got 30 joule .if airthight its shoots around 40 joule .
To be fair, Hatsan Gas Rams have a valve you can employ to empty and fill their Gas Ram with the Hatsan PCP fill probe...sorry, have some expensive Steyrs and Walthers and Feinwerkbaus but got hooked on the low priced high power guns...haha! Now I want a Weihrauch to see my mistake. ;-)
Im looking forward to you getting involved with the rotten trigger on these 90's? I've reasantly acquired one produced in 2004( i checked the data base) and like a fool i checked the trigger gaurd bolts to see if they were loose, the big one was, i tightened it and created a major problem 😢 it's going back to the shop i bought it from tomorrow.
I agree about the BSA Lightning, I have the Lightning XE .177, a beautiful looking and handling gun, but so bloody pellet fussy, I have an old Webley Vulcan that shoots more accurately, I have a 40 year old BSA Meteor that shoots more accurately, unfortunately the Lightning has put me off buying any new BSA for good
Look forward to getting a few of your kits soon. I have an Impact arms rm100. Formerly the theoben eliminator. I broke it😢.it's been broke for a while. I'd like to know if the calking arm and shoe on the hw90 is usable on my rifle, thank you and God bless.
I own an HW90k. Judging by the wood-aged stock on yours, Nick, I am guessing it is of a similar vintage. My trigger is different from the one you have there. What did you call yours again? Mine is the Elite trigger. As far as I remember, it was the standard on HW90's, but I could be wrong. It is also brass coloured, unlike your example there.
I've had a Fenman HE from new. Something broke inside and I took it back to Theoben for repair and it continued to work ok until last year.I think the seals are kaput. Great rifle for hunting but cocking too heavy for any amount of plinking. Obtaining a 'seal kit' seems impossible. Any plans for you to supply a kit? I reckon there will be a lot of demand for them. Many thanks for your videos.
I'd stay clear of the Diana gas rams, they are not adjustable, and according to Hector Medina (works for Diana,and private gunsmith, world champion spring gun shooter) ) he advises to change to a spring if I bought one! Great video
The only HW that I haven’t got in collection are the 30 & 90. I did own a 90k 30+ years ago but it was stolen and I can still remember thinking, thank god they didn’t take my 80 😂😂😂
Crossman do a gas ram type thing called a NITRO PISTON my dad had one or the bucking bronco I called it 😂😂😂 it broke the cheap scope it came with 😅 its now a wall hanger
Literally a gazillion brands now offer a gas ram alternative, some better than others, Hatsans 'vortex' system is probably the best in my opinion, mainly due to the fact that in my models you can take the stock off and use a hand pump directly into the piston, there is also a bleeder valve to reduce power if needed, the cometa rams are fixed power and are ok, the Norica range is quite harsh and some are difficult to cock, gamos original IGT systems were dreadful but fo be fair the new Gen3 models are better, I have a snowpeak GRS and its 18FPE, an absolute beast to cock and shoot. As for the Gamo triggers, the 'cat n sat' types just need a screw swap for a 10mm one, I have all my gamo triggers set to around a pound. IMO 😂 the HW90 never features in YT target work, it seems to only be shot buy bunny stalkers😎
Hatsan definitely has some viable magnum class gas rams out there. I have a 130QE and the power is impressive(in .30) but a very different feel than my HW80 carbine in .22
Friend, I watched the video on Air gun detective claiming 3 out of 5 new hatsan he ordered the gas ram failed. And honestly don't like their triggeres much.
@kouroshdavoudi7828 I'm sure many brands have there failings, i have 9 hatsans, 4 with vortex pistons, had them for over 4 years and so far no issues🤞. I have a very budget PR900W PCP, shoots like a dream, I have a 600€ cometa PCP that leaked from day one, went back to cometa, and was returned to me with the same leak.!! The quatro trigger is disliked by many air gunners, after a bit of tweaking they can be quite smooth at around 1.5 pound. JC on AGD does a lot of work on his guns, his reviews are good, out the box and as he sees it, he then retro tunes them to his liking, like many of us I guess.
Never owned a gas ram rifle, but have shot my mates .177 Theoben Sirocco and .22 HW90. The Sirocco is a beauty, but has a poor trigger and very snappy firing cycle. The HW90 also has a quick action, but is much smoother to shoot, with its excellent trigger. Would I ever buy a gas ram gun? - unlikely.
I bought a Theoben Sirocco Deluxe at the time and was very disappointed.Yes it had lovely blueing and engineering,especially the barrel lock up which was rock solid - but the trigger was absolute shite,it was woefully underpowered and the stock wasn’t a patch on the Venom 77 which replaced it.
Ah , well, if I'd seen this last February , I'd not have bought my gas ram !! Oh well, it was a lesson learned, some on will want it off me !! But , yes its one of the boot lifter types , as you said, harsh and spiteful to shoot !! Back to my Norica Dragon with cut off spring power .
Good one Nick. my CFX will be over soon as i fix the 306. I think it was BB that said a good springer is better than agas ram, but a cheap gas ram is better than a cheap springer. i sort of go with that the Gamo spring "guides" are a joke and the rattley spring noise I cannot stand, thus i buy GR s. But they do slowly loose power ( in my experience) and cost more than apair of decnt springs.Was going to ask you about the dianas as theres an Armurerie offeringt he Magum with a synthetic stock below 200 euros Not sure if they are N Tec or spring. All the best.
The Gamo CAT trigger can be made very good, but the build quality is trash. Crosman is going gas spring on most models. Ps, gas springs are great for breaking scopes.
I'm inclined to agree with you. I got a hw80 for xmas in 82 when I was 14. Awesome rifle and i loved it.Always wanted a sirocco and finally got one in 93. Great gun but it never felt right if you get my meaning. The hw80 felt like it was built for me but the sirocco never did. I still own both of them. I'd sell the sirocco but never the 80.
mid 2000s i bought a Benjamin Trail, shot it a few times and it was o.k. then i left it in the bag and forgot it. Fast forward five years, i remembered it got it out to reacquaint myself with it and...........no power. to date 3 people have looked at it and given up, the last one has still got it but i assume the gas ram is still u/s unreplaceable......whatever !!!!
I was wondering why we haven't seen these in real rifles. I presume its to do with putting nitrogen in something that gets hot. If these gas rams really do last longer you'd think manufacturers would be all over it. There's definitely been an increase in gas rams in recent years
Diana's entry model rifles are made in China nowadays. They feel very cheap and have triggers akin to a staple-gun. You can recognize them as they have the model name in numerals (ex. "two-forty", "eleven", etc...) Their classic magnum springer models are still made in Germany and have their model names in digits (ex. 48, 460, 350, etc..) and are fairly decent rifles, allthough wooden-stock versions might be a bit overpriced. - I own three of them. T-06 trigger feels pretty good, the action is easy to disassemble and spare parts are easy to come by in the EU. The quality of assembly has dropped-off compared to 2 decades ago, as far as I'm told by older shooters. They are lubed very sparingly from the factory, that I can confirm. Never heard much about the Diana N-tec (gas-ram) models. The fact they aren't offered anymore might be a bit telling, not even as seperate conversion kits.
Hi Nick. This may be an unpopular opinion but i love my gamo whisper IGT. (Gas ram). Was my first rifle after a few years out of the sport. The firing cycle was a little harsh at first but calmed down a bit over a few tins. I now have close to 30 air guns. Mostly projects but at least 10 working perfectly. I really missed the IGT When it has needed seals. It is actually quite a forgiving platform especially for hold sensitivity. Very consistent over the crony. My wife likes it so much i brought the spring version for her which will also group very well but is much harsher and will kick you in the teeth if you get overzealous with your cheek weld. Had them both apart and the ram fits perfectly. The spring on the other hand needs a plastic spacer and slip washer over a terrible plastic cross that runs through half the gun as an excuse for a spring guide. I feel the powerplant was designed for ram and had a spring shoved in as an afterthought but don't know that for sure. She enjoys the gun and takes a lot of bunnys and squirrels with it. Just feels unrefined to me whereas the IGT feels nice... to me. Different strokes for different folks maybe. Both rifles will give exceptional accuracy over sensible distances i just bonded with the gas ram and not the spring version. All my other rifles are spring powered break barrels with the odd under lever thrown in. I love spring guns but feel you shouldn't discount a gas ram entirely. Especially if you are starting out, they can be a great forgiving rifle. Just bare in mind springs can be posted, rams must be collected in person or RFD transferred which can add to cost. The ram in the gamo lasted a chunk longer than the spring in my bsa meteor mk7 evo which has the same internals. Is not my favourite gun but is up there and is an enjoyable experience every time. Sorry for the essay i just love that gun and newbies seem to get on well with it. All the best pal. Loving the vids by the way. Thanks for all your hard work. All the best.
O dear, your bias against the HW90 is clearly evident here. I have around 25 Weihrauch, Walther springers, some with your TBT kits inside. I also have 2 HW90's 177/22, both long barrel version, super accurate, reliable and a great experience to shoot. In business it's never a good idea, in fact its bad practice, to run down the competitions products.
That certainly wasn’t my intention. My conclusion was; if you find a TB version, buy it! If you want an HW90, buy it! If you think it will revolutionise your shooting, it won’t. I think that’s a fair assessment, and it came off much better than the HW35 and BSA’s that I do make kits for!😁
Black bunker bm8 folding rifle is gas ram. Also has a terrible trigger. However, it's extremely easy to cock and doing 11.5+ ft lbs in .22. My hw90k has similar power but it's harder to cock. The elite trigger is easily equal to the rekord.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
When I left home in 1991 my mum put all my things she didn’t like in the bin or the shed, assuming she had binned my BSA Super Meteor I sulked for a bit and thought no more bout it until 2024 when we helped her move and cleared the house.. low and behold my Meteor emerged from the back of the shed like a slightly rusty Lord Lucan..
And it was still cocked…and loaded (whoops)… But after putting a few pellets through her I chrono’d it as it was still mincing tin cans at 10 yards.. 9 ft lbs
No idea what it was before it went into the shed but seeing as I had had it since about 1984 and never re-sprung it I was amazed…
@@todderstaffes Ajay Madam Bill Koli of 1980 is lying in my house even today in much the same condition. i like it very much i like it very much I can also send you its picture Very accurate accurate songs Very accurate songs
The trigger on the HW90 is called the Elite trigger and is every bit as good as the Record trigger.
You are correct on both accounts.
Interesting, Tony Wall recons they are a weak trigger?
I have the HW90K & it is fantastic - including the superb Elite trigger.
I have a new 90k. No complaints at all. This rifle does it all. I had a 35e for over 30 years and it was a complete pile of crap. Eventually threw it on the bonfire. Kept the record trigger unit though.
Rony wall is a prik@@Robo56hunter
Was actually using my hw90k today, had it about 25 years absolutely fantastic bit of kit
I seem to remember it being the Elite trigger on the HW90 👍👍
The mk1 hw90 had a 65mm piston stroke compared to the 85mm piston stroke of the later mk2, the mk1 is better suited at maximum 11ftlbs or it shoots horrible, but at around 10.5ftlbs it is a absolute dream to shoot with PCP accuracy, I have two of them
I've got an early HW90 and experimented over the years (using genuine HW 90 barrels with the twin link holes in the breach block) in .177, .22 and .25 flavours. It's sat with a .25 barrel on it for the past 2 years, which I have to say is the best combination from my perspective. It give a soft but quick firing cycle and an absolute hoot to shoot. The Elite Trigger (2 variants over the years - the old ones are now unavailable) can be set up to be the 'almost' equal to a record unit. I actually prefer the reset-able safety on the trigger guard unit. If you get a chance to get hold of one of the Euro-Custom models - grab it with both hands. Have a Happy & Healthy New Year Nick.
Keep up the great work
Enjoying your vids, and your willingness to answer my questions, thxU. Just getting to know my new to me, used HW90 .25, with 200 pellets already thru it. Love it so far. Took 2 hands to cock the way the original owner had it set [60LB by bathroom scale], so the assumption was it was left at full factory power, about 26BAR/ 370PSI. Used his H&N HORNET 22.07 grain pellet because he [previous owner] reported stacking pellets =.255” 6.47mm head/.258" skirt/ /656FPS/19.12fpe. The head was waaay too tight in the breach. Saving up for Pelletgage sorter, and your .25 pellet sizer or even smaller 6.34mm /6.33mm.
While waiting to save up for [great fitting] H&N Field Target Trophy 20.06 grains / .249” 6.33mm head / .257mm skirt, and a 600PSI ROCKSHOX mountain bike hand suspension pump and their aluminum Schrader valve adapter with teflon tape [60 bucks], I started playing.
At 12 feet ran great from 12.67FPE / 534FPS / 9 taps on valve from full,
to 15.66FPE / 599FPS / 6 taps from full/ '' "
to 18.28FPE avg/ 639.4FPS / 20BAR / 40LBS COCKING EFFORT. 637fps.
Sorted by weight I got:
FPS =18.08fpe
641 =18.31
642 =18.36
641 =18.31
636 =18.02
Got some Predator GTO 16.54 gr for Christmas so gonna ring HW90 .25 out at 33 feet with open sights with front ghost ring insert that is open around ring for more light, and both light pellets next. Moving forward, I will use Steve’s HARD AIR MAGAZINE’S Weihrauch HW90 Tuning Guide - How To Do It, What Results To Expect, at 33 feet. Aim small hit small. Very excited to find the best hi/ low tunes [indoors/ outdoors/ hunting waskily wabbits for both 16.54g and 20.006g pellets to start. Looks like Hades pellets have factory head size that will fit my breach, so as budget allows, they will be my first heavy pellet.
The HW90 is easy to break down and repair, parts everywhere, elegant engineering, not part of waste stream/ planned obsolescence problem, been around for 40 years, even looks like HW90’s Schrader valve cores are still used in racing suspensions in four PSI setting ranges from Schrader Pacific Advanced Valves]. A range finding scope from Hector Medina at Connecticut Custom Airguns [helped develop Diana 34EMS from their NTec gas ram products], and a high grade zero recoil mount and I will be good to 60 yards or so.
Bought a Theoben Taunus in the mid nineties from the factory, beautiful stock, fabulous finish of the metal work. Very accurate to 25-30 yards using H&N FTT. Put out 10.5ft lbs new. Have tried pumping it up but accuracy was affected badly, so 10.5-11 ft lbs it is. Had the misfortune to purchase a BSA and Gamo gas ram from a shop that was closing down, big mistake, absolute shite, both guns will go on gun trader/star soon and be offered as spares or repair and any money for them will be given to charity. I shall keep the Theoben as it's got sentimental attachment unlike the Gamo/BSA. Good presentation and good luck with the overhaul 🙀👍
What happened to the gamo is it broken ?
Can't hit a barn door with it, stock screws keep coming loose, despite thread locker. Located in west Wales. Complete with magazines, scope and original box.
@@williamlong2660 ok I'm south of Ireland so I can't travel that far 😂 .I have the single shot version of it the full power version out of the box I removed the rrr rail thats suppose to reduce the recoil for the scope. I fired atleast 2500 pellets true it and no problems . At 30 metres I can hit center on beer bottle caps . The scope I'm using is a CV life 3x9x40 .16 grain jts dead center pellets.22 suit it down to the ground.
Ireland,land of my forefathers, beautiful. Unlike the gamo maxim multi shot. So one day I am on my range and getting more frustrated by the shot when suddenly I thought what am I doing for in the gun cabinet there lies a hw77. Never shot the thing again 🙀🤔
@@williamlong2660 not so lovely at the moment here 5 cm snow outside my door first time I've ever seen that much 😂 .
I still have an old HW80k lefthand that I got before the wall came down, I did tune it back in 1988 for consistency and fitted a better guide tube and a carefully sized OX spring with washers and bicycle crank bearings at each end back in 1988 - its still running and not opened it for over 30 years.
@@DevilbyMoonlight I have it from kew right-handed full size and power manufactured in 2021had it for two years and it is getting better and better 🙂
Tim, terribly sorry but I phoned you and your wife answered the call, I had a Fenman with 3 Theoben barrels and a Steve Harper barrel, so all 4 calibres covered, in a nice fitted case, but she said something about a New Years resolution you'd made.
Steve Harper also did a .25 conversion for the HW90, even rarer than Theoben versions. The 90 had one advantage over other Weihrauchs, the safety is resettable. When you strip it, there were 2 pistons used, the early ones were short stroked (and better by all accounts) and they all had a 'floating' inertia weight, for which the jury has been out for decades on whether it's a good thing or not, but the seals on it gum up and cause problems.
You are a bad man!😂
Dave Theobald and Ben Taylor
Hence Theoben.
Thanks for the footage my friend really enjoyed it 😊👌🇬🇧🇬🇧
Looking forward to the strip and rebuild Nick. I think the 90 has always had the elite trigger. As an HW fan. when you handle a new 90 it just like great quality. Thanks for the video.
I have a Theoben built BSA Superstar with an adjustable gas ram. Only 250 guns ever made, absolutely brilliant gun. If BSA hadn't gone bust the Superstar would have been the first mass produced rammer & not the HW90....got that straight from Ben Taylor. And back in the 80's spring quality wasn't what it was today, so the gas rams did have that advantage then.
I got a 90 when they first came out and loved it in the relatively short time I had it before it was stolen .
I recall theoben used nitrogen in there struts. This made them very stable regardless of external temperature.
It was easy to see who had been playing with there power because the airgun became very temperature sensitive once the nitrogen had been diluted / removed .
A nice brake barrel theoben was crisp and a joy to shoot 😊
And I believe the theoben rapid 7 mk1 had the gamo trigger unit, not a target trigger but when is cold outside you need a little resistance.
I bought a Eliminator, top of Theoben gas ram rifle, beautiful looking gun ,FAC model.
What a load of rubbish ,Out shooting on 3 occasions, and total power loss, unreliable rubbish.
At least Spring gun is reliable ,and you can service it yourselves.
😊
Don't know this for a fact, but I suspect that the Eliminator's were subject to more wear and tear due to the higher air pressure required. I have an HW90TB from (I believe) 1992, and a Sirocco Grand Prix HE from 1993 - original owner of both. Not had any leaking issues since, both running around 11.5ft/lbs. That said, while I would expect Eliminator seals to wear earlier, pressure loss after three uses is as you say, rubbish.
However, it may actually be a simpler fix than you might think, and the guns aren't hard to work on - particularly with all the pressure gone! Got to de-gas the rifle to take it apart anyway. Most likely the Schrader valve needs replacing (easily damaged if someone has removed it and then screwed it back in too far), or the two o-rings on the dummy piston. As long as the internals are clean, and no burs inside, there aren't really any other things that should cause a leak.
@stephenwallace2423 perhaps it's the higher operating pressure, As gun was Fac rated, gun was bought new ,and as Pest controller, unreliable rifle no good to me , And don't have time ,or knowledge to repair, So back to Theoben, Carrage charges +, so not happy bunny.
Yeah, I think anyone would feel let down after that short a time before failure. 😕
Cometa also has gas ram/strut versions of their rifles ( at least Fenix/Fusion), or you can order a decently cheap gas ram kit from them to convert one from spring. The body of the ram goes into the piston and the rod goes into a cup in the plug/trigger group that the rear guide pulls out of. Nothing needs to be modified permanently so you can switch back and forth if you want. Haven't heard anything negative about them as of yet.
Looking forward to watching the coming videos on this rifle.
Love your knowledge on guns nick and thank you for all your help and your time you gave me a true gent and Carson’s help with my paper work see you soon xden
I’ve just got a HW90k as a second air rifle to my Daystate Huntsman, I can’t wait to see more content on this gun, it would be great to understand your thoughts and experiences shooting it and anything you do to tune the gun to improve the shooting experience and accuracy.
Had a Theoben Olympus, sold it as I hated the rubbish trigger. Bought a 90, great rifle. FWIW, I think the Elite trigger is as good as the Rekord unit.
A wonderful post and love your honesty
Back in the 90’s I was very impressed with the concept of Gas Ram. Never pulled the trigger in getting one but all these years later wondered if it might still be worth a punt. After this video and more recent info gathering I don’t think it’s such a good idea.
Will carry on with my PCP’s and ‘manage’ my old BSA Lightning XL 😁
Thank you for doing a vid on the HW90. I have a HW90k that is about 5 years old, I traded my HW97k STL for it as the cocking was getting a little too much for my arthritis. I absolutely love the 90 and it is now producing 11.5flb (.22) after a little pump up. WOW you dont need much air to get the power up (from 8flb) Both parties where happy with the trade. I had been looking for info on resealing it and may give it a go once I have watched your progress.
Diana had their own Gas Strut rifles with Bilstein struts . Hatsan did some and some were adjustable with a PCP filling type probe. The Shark of Argentina apparently made the first gas ram rifle before Theoben , the CD455 . Vortek made a conversion for Weihrauch rifles but it did not take off and they were apparently trying it again . AWT/ Theoben aftermarket ones were available in the UK as you will know and they did one for the HW80 but it was not a big seller compared to the others they made.
A couple of observations on these. First, they seem really hard to cock, much harder than a spring Weihrauch, and you really have to position your finger carefully on the trigger (centre of the finger pad) for maximum accuracy. You also need to use the mount stop pin on your scope mount, as I've found the fast lock time causes the mount to creep if you don't.
If you leave your spring powered gun cocked for long periods of time the life of the spring will be shortened as opposed to cocking it just before taking the shot. This is not the case with a gas ram. Once the spring starts to wear out your spring powered gun will indeed lose power unlike a gas ram. I bought a Mauser A.M03 ( Diana) around 5 years ago. It has not lost any power despite being left cocked for many many hours over the years. It says made in Germany on the chamber. Very accurate gun at half the price of a HW90. So i would say that yes indeed a gas ram has an advantage over a spring powered gun.😊
@@mercury8180 and you can cock an HW80 fitted with a POWERLOK spring for month's , leave it and it'll have no adverse affect. Ivan Hancock told me that during a customizing project. Ivan was head of web/Ben. Good luck.
@@mercury8180 I'm talking 6 months o cocked and just left.
Got a scirocco delux,, never used it for years, but just bought a brand new 90,,,cant wait to get it next month👊😁🇬🇧
Got mine a few weeks ago. Came from Drapers in Nottingham and was doing 8ft Lb. A few pumps and a bit of tapping on the schrader valve got it to spot on 12 ft lb. Since then, it's been perfect. Bit heavy, so sling swivels also fitted. I use rws superdome .22. I'd buy another!
Very interested to see how this one goes.
I'd love to see before/after chrono results associated with your videos, though I understand your shoulder problem may make that too uncomfortable to do at present.
Nick I have two gas ram Diana, 350 n-tec premium and Ar8 both .22 manufactured in 2016 from New, unlike what you're heard the to6 trigger works beautifully on them.
Although the internals seems to be identical since I have relubed both an changed piston seal on Ar8.the 350 is much more civilized than Ar8,
Easier to cock and quieter, both full power over 30 jules and very accurate, spesialy if you set them with heavy hefty tough scope to absorb the recoil.
My Ar8 is the hardest to cock and my most powerful Air rifle by far, I filled the cavity in the butt full of rice and it helps with the shock.
By the way they're so eazy to work,
You can remove the piston not having to remove the barrel and using blue loctit is a must 😊
I remember in the 80's Airgun magazines absolutely creaming themselves over the "new gas rams".
Yep. I well remember the great Arthur Shepherd of airgun world getting an early sirocco and also James Marchington. I bought one myself in 93 and still own it. It was beautiful and a great gun but tbh I preferred my mk1 hw80, which I also still own.
I converted an Air Arms EX88 with one of the Theoben gas rams they were selling year 2000ish.
It's had many thousand of shots through it and still works well.
Goes off with a sharp shot cycle, not harsh but it's different to the way it was with a spring.
Would I do it again, no, but anything with the Theoben name back then was desirable.
I'm still using the Dampamount they had going.
Hi Nick I’ve got a profile Fenman that is going to be refurbished in the next couple of months. And also I’ve got a TB90 which will be back together in a couple of weeks. The Tb 90 is in a euro stock which was made by CS stocks at Sheffield
Please, please, do not take any of the below commentary as criticism - I am actually really looking forward to your future videos on the HW90, as I am soon to start rebuilding my own. However, some of the things you said didn't line up with how I remembered things. Then again, we are talking thirty years ago.....
Theoben = Dave THEObald and BEN *Taylor*.
I had a thing for Theoben gas rams back in the day, and as I already owned a Webley Omega, my first purchase was one of the Theoben gas struts, made for them by AWT. That was followed by an early HW90TB (more on that later), and finally, a Sirocco Grand Prix HE. While the AWT gas struts didn't seem too bad, I would agree - the big advantage to the full-on gas rams is the adjustability, as well as making it easy to disassemble the rifle without requiring a spring compressor or sash cramp. Though you do then have to have a pump to either tune or re-assemble..... On the whole though, I would tend to avoid the rest of gas-struts and nitro-pistons.
I'm not sure if I have everything straight here, as there were a few variations along the way, but I believe that the earliest Siroccos used BSA trigger parts - at the time, I think that BSA were still actually BSA.
Theoben then switched to using mostly Webley trigger parts, but with their own trigger - the pivot pins, circlips, sear, auxiliary sear and cocking dog a look to be stock Webley. Bar the trigger blade itself, it's basically the same trigger as in the Omega, Eclipse or Patriot. This mainly Webley trigger assembly was used for the rifles that had a "push-up" mushroom safety button in front of the trigger guard, as well as for those that had a push forward safety bar inside the trigger guard. The Webley trigger is smooth, predictable (little if any creep once adjusted) and fairly crisp. The downside is it only adjusts for second stage position.
They then switched to the Evolution trigger, which was said to be their own design. Not had any experience of the Evo myself, and have heard both good and bad about them pretty much equally. So either the Evo is very inconsistent, or set-up of the trigger is critical.
I believe that the Gamo triggers were actually used on the Rapid PCPs, not the Sirocco.
Speaking of triggers, the HW90 uses the Elite trigger - the Perfekt appears on some of the lower cost HW springers.
Going back to the HW90TB, this actually uses an ambidextrous stock, very much like that on the Sirocco Countryman. However, the Countryman was a cheaper option, so it had a beech stock, whereas the HW90TB was meant to be a step above the stock HW90, so the TB stock was made from walnut! The step above the HW90TB was the "Euro" - this is the stock that had the Schnabel tip.
Up until quite recently, all Diana spring and gas-ram airguns were still made in Germany, but they had started selling upgraded versions of Artemis/Snowpeak PCPs, from China. Outlaw = SPA M16; Skyhawk = SPA P15; there were also two very cheap models, the Bandit and Stormrider. They have recently started selling some cheaper spring guns, and I wouldn't be surprised if those were also Chinese, but the classic models - 34, 48, 52, 350 etc. - are still German to the best of my knowledge.
Hope that info is helpful to someone out there! 😊
Knew I would forget something..... BTW, the Elite trigger, correctly set-up, really isn't far off of a Rekord trigger. Yes, it has to be different, but different isn't necessarily bad. Case in point, as another commenter mentioned, having a resettable trigger safety. Plus the fact that with a gas ram, the trigger HAS to be mounted under the rifle - there is no piston rod for the Rekord trigger to latch to. However, you still have the weight adjustment as well as sear engagement adjustment that you have on the Rekord. With all the changes that need to be made to accommodate the new safety and work with a gas ram, no the Elite will not feel the same as the Rekord, but it it far from being a bad trigger, and I am sure that anyone other afficianados of super light trigger pulls will be able to get it to suit their needs.
Yeah, I don’t write a script, get things wrong, and of all else fails, make it up!😂
One of my favourite rifles of all time, that I’ve owned is a the theoben Sirocco👌
Trouble is you can't get into them.😊
Not actually as complicated as you might think, though some models are more complicated than others. On the easier models, you have a cross pin that holds the dummy piston in to the body tube. This is held in place by a lock screw. Chances are that you are going to need to remove the sear from the trigger in order to remove the piston.
So, remove the trigger sear; release pressure from the Schrader valve; remove the lock screw; push out the crosspin. You can now remove the dummy piston, inertia weight and the piston from the body tube, and do whatever maintenance you need to do. The upside is that once you have drained the pressure out of the ram, you don't have to worry about compressing or de-compressing a spring. Downside is of course, that you have to have a pump to re-pressurise the rifle when you put it back together.
But, I never could love the shape of it's trigger guard... Just me!
In a hw 90 a made a spring guide and a tophat .to fit the webley patriot spring .it was at same power but easy cocking
Educational and entertaining as ever. Infotainment!
Theoben Rapids had GAMO triggers, the rammers mostly had Webley Omega triggers & then their own Evolution. Both can be tuned to have a nice sweet spot. GAMO, Benjamin, Hatsan, Diana, BSA, Crosman....everyone has a non adjustable rammer now.......awful things.
The evolution was the silencer/sound moderator, never have found a sweet spot for the trigger, just got used to it 🙀
@williamlong2660 The newer triggers were also labelled with the Evolution title. Their sweet spot was incredibly hard to find, with very small tweaks making a huge difference. Very easy to completely miss the spot.
I have a fenman in 22 I may part with. It's an early gun but shoots great. Might need a bit of restoration mind you. Let me know. It is a HE though with early silencer
Pics and details please, a resto project would be ideal👍
Tinbumtuning@gmail.com
@@tbtairrifletuning1520 no problem. I'll get some pictures in the morning and email you with the details 👍🏻
@tbtairrifletuning1520 not sure if the message sent properly. I will get some decent photos in the morning and email you the details 👍🏻
@tbtairrifletuning1520 Just sent you a quick email
I purchased my HW90 when i was living in Denmark and it was producing 28 foot pounds of energy..it was on my wish list for a long time... BUT, it was terrible to shoot. The recoil was violent, the cocking effort was an effort, to top it off it was very inaccurate... shooting Bisley Magnums..Since moving back to Blighty I had to reduce the gas pressure by way of the valve at the rear in order to comply with UK laws.. Now she is at 11.5 foot pounds the rifle performs superbly and is a dream to shoot..
Shame you didn't think of lowering the power in denmark, they shoot beautiflly at around 18 ft/lbs.
In 25 caliber they are accurat at full power
@@junglie at the time i wasn't aware of the air valve at the rear of the rifle.
@@andrewnevitt Yep it's hidden under a screw & you need an adapter to fit it too, you have to be very gentle tapping the valve to release air or the HP shrader valve will fail on older guns but they are cheap to replace.
Mines a 1992 it runs best @ around 15.5 ftlbs when in Spain lol ,, Cant wait for the Stripdown Vids Nick it needs some decent ones see ya on the AGF bro
The compressed spring thing gets my goat. You don’t have to do a top end overhaul on your car engine every time you park it up for a week for christs sake!
Interesting subject well presented mate 👍 subscribed
Happy new Year!!! You can get a Diana with an air piston (N tec) with great triggers.
'2/3rds the weight of the average church' LOL😊?!
...hahaha...now that hurt!..'almost spiteful' talking about the Gamo and BSA Gas Rams....and you are SPOT ON!!..I have a few...which I must say I do enjoy....and the .177 limited to 24 joules here...but only by a smaller transfer port...so the felt recoil is exactly the same as if it were at 30 plus joules....OUCH! But hey, I'm also married to a Spanish woman so I clearly love pain! LOL
Dave Theobald and Ben Taylor were the original Theoben founders and I have owned many from Sirroco's to Slr 98, Evo, Fenman, Rapid, but that's a PCP so doesn't count here. The HW90 js a fine rifle, had many Theobens and still have 3 90's now, sadly sold my SLR98 and Fenman. The 90 is a different animal altogether and a very good rifle, but it's a lump to carry, much like the Pro Elite. UK 90'S have a very heavy piston with a counterweight much like a Fenman.
The gas/air ram systems in Theoben rifles is I believe still under patent, and is very different to the gas strut systems found in Gamo junk. HW90's also have 2 points for the cocking arm to locate in the barrel block, thus increasing the stroke for countries without the 12 ft lbs restriction. I have 1 and a half in bits if you need anything, great video of one of my favourites, (well someboby has to like them),
Good advice,not got one so would like one :}
Yes i would absolutely buy the HW90 but it's not on top of my HW list. Thanks for a great video buddy!
What is available in Pakistan
Living here in Spain , I bought a Norica Dragon in 177 a few years ago. Spanish power is high, this over the chrono was shooting nearly 1300 f/s.
I decided to fit a gas ram, low power one !! It was dreadful , so harsh , very fast but still whipped the pellets out at almost 1000 f/s. And made the trigger heavy too, very primitive trigger mechanism .
I shot it like this for over a year, then after a long plinking session just before christmas , I thought I'd put the spring back .
I sliced 3 coils off, flattened the ends, polished and nice machine washers on them.
Now, its a pleasure to cock, and shoot .
9.6 foot pounds, perfect for a plinker , so good I shoot it over 12m in the house , not too loud .
The gas ram had all but destroyed the piston seal on the rifle as well, luckily some where along the line, I think when I ordered the gas ram, I asked for 2 piston seals .
That's my only experience of gas rams, and to be honest , I'm not over impressed in any way .
@@gerrybaillon1973 I got a Norica storm, didnt like the spring buzz, ordered a gas ram kit, but it was really hard to cock, delivered with over 20 joules and accuracy was bad so I took it out, ordered a new 44 turn spring and guides from A deportes (Also live here in Spain)😎 now shoots really well.
I once left a diana 350 magnum cocked for 3 months .it did the same output later .the diana 350 ntec is bad on the seals .they most bot thight ..and the gun got 30 joule .if airthight its shoots around 40 joule .
To be fair, Hatsan Gas Rams have a valve you can employ to empty and fill their Gas Ram with the Hatsan PCP fill probe...sorry, have some expensive Steyrs and Walthers and Feinwerkbaus but got hooked on the low priced high power guns...haha! Now I want a Weihrauch to see my mistake. ;-)
Im looking forward to you getting involved with the rotten trigger on these 90's? I've reasantly acquired one produced in 2004( i checked the data base) and like a fool i checked the trigger gaurd bolts to see if they were loose, the big one was, i tightened it and created a major problem 😢 it's going back to the shop i bought it from tomorrow.
I agree about the BSA Lightning, I have the Lightning XE .177, a beautiful looking and handling gun, but so bloody pellet fussy, I have an old Webley Vulcan that shoots more accurately, I have a 40 year old BSA Meteor that shoots more accurately, unfortunately the Lightning has put me off buying any new BSA for good
Her HW80 carbine. Use web/custom kit. Springer.
Mentioned seperately: Cometa and Norica sell gasrams. Or you purchase the cylinder and replace the spring with it.
Look forward to getting a few of your kits soon. I have an Impact arms rm100. Formerly the theoben eliminator. I broke it😢.it's been broke for a while. I'd like to know if the calking arm and shoe on the hw90 is usable on my rifle, thank you and God bless.
Taylor
I own an HW90k. Judging by the wood-aged stock on yours, Nick, I am guessing it is of a similar vintage. My trigger is different from the one you have there. What did you call yours again? Mine is the Elite trigger. As far as I remember, it was the standard on HW90's, but I could be wrong. It is also brass coloured, unlike your example there.
I've had a Fenman HE from new. Something broke inside and I took it back to Theoben for repair and it continued to work ok until last year.I think the seals are kaput. Great rifle for hunting but cocking too heavy for any amount of plinking. Obtaining a 'seal kit' seems impossible. Any plans for you to supply a kit? I reckon there will be a lot of demand for them. Many thanks for your videos.
I'd stay clear of the Diana gas rams, they are not adjustable, and according to Hector Medina (works for Diana,and private gunsmith, world champion spring gun shooter) ) he advises to change to a spring if I bought one!
Great video
I've got a impact rm100 .22,needs a bit of tlc but shoots nice😊
Sir, do you people have any delivery system for this?
The only HW that I haven’t got in collection are the 30 & 90. I did own a 90k 30+ years ago but it was stolen and I can still remember thinking, thank god they didn’t take my 80 😂😂😂
Hw90 great airgun better than springers
Crossman do a gas ram type thing called a NITRO PISTON my dad had one or the bucking bronco I called it 😂😂😂 it broke the cheap scope it came with 😅 its now a wall hanger
Literally a gazillion brands now offer a gas ram alternative, some better than others, Hatsans 'vortex' system is probably the best in my opinion, mainly due to the fact that in my models you can take the stock off and use a hand pump directly into the piston, there is also a bleeder valve to reduce power if needed, the cometa rams are fixed power and are ok, the Norica range is quite harsh and some are difficult to cock, gamos original IGT systems were dreadful but fo be fair the new Gen3 models are better, I have a snowpeak GRS and its 18FPE, an absolute beast to cock and shoot. As for the Gamo triggers, the 'cat n sat' types just need a screw swap for a 10mm one, I have all my gamo triggers set to around a pound. IMO 😂 the HW90 never features in YT target work, it seems to only be shot buy bunny stalkers😎
Hatsan definitely has some viable magnum class gas rams out there. I have a 130QE and the power is impressive(in .30) but a very different feel than my HW80 carbine in .22
Friend, I watched the video on Air gun detective claiming 3 out of 5 new hatsan he ordered the gas ram failed.
And honestly don't like their triggeres much.
@kouroshdavoudi7828 I'm sure many brands have there failings, i have 9 hatsans, 4 with vortex pistons, had them for over 4 years and so far no issues🤞. I have a very budget PR900W PCP, shoots like a dream, I have a 600€ cometa PCP that leaked from day one, went back to cometa, and was returned to me with the same leak.!! The quatro trigger is disliked by many air gunners, after a bit of tweaking they can be quite smooth at around 1.5 pound. JC on AGD does a lot of work on his guns, his reviews are good, out the box and as he sees it, he then retro tunes them to his liking, like many of us I guess.
how many price
Never owned a gas ram rifle, but have shot my mates .177 Theoben Sirocco and .22 HW90. The Sirocco is a beauty, but has a poor trigger and very snappy firing cycle. The HW90 also has a quick action, but is much smoother to shoot, with its excellent trigger. Would I ever buy a gas ram gun? - unlikely.
never shot one what’s the cycle like is the recoil different from a normal high quality spring gun
Similar to an HW80. Ish!
I bought a Theoben Sirocco Deluxe at the time and was very disappointed.Yes it had lovely blueing and engineering,especially the barrel lock up which was rock solid - but the trigger was absolute shite,it was woefully underpowered and the stock wasn’t a patch on the Venom 77 which replaced it.
Ah , well, if I'd seen this last February , I'd not have bought my gas ram !! Oh well, it was a lesson learned, some on will want it off me !! But , yes its one of the boot lifter types , as you said, harsh and spiteful to shoot !! Back to my Norica Dragon with cut off spring power .
Good one Nick. my CFX will be over soon as i fix the 306. I think it was BB that said a good springer is better than agas ram, but a cheap gas ram is better than a cheap springer. i sort of go with that the Gamo spring "guides" are a joke and the rattley spring noise I cannot stand, thus i buy GR s. But they do slowly loose power ( in my experience) and cost more than apair of decnt springs.Was going to ask you about the dianas as theres an Armurerie offeringt he Magum with a synthetic stock below 200 euros Not sure if they are N Tec or spring. All the best.
Is it the 350 magnum?
@@tbtairrifletuning1520 Sent you the link by email Nick. keith
The Gamo CAT trigger can be made very good, but the build quality is trash.
Crosman is going gas spring on most models.
Ps, gas springs are great for breaking scopes.
Go with the 80 ...A much better air rifle and you get a SUPERIOR trigger
I'm inclined to agree with you. I got a hw80 for xmas in 82 when I was 14. Awesome rifle and i loved it.Always wanted a sirocco and finally got one in 93. Great gun but it never felt right if you get my meaning. The hw80 felt like it was built for me but the sirocco never did. I still own both of them. I'd sell the sirocco but never the 80.
mid 2000s i bought a Benjamin Trail, shot it a few times and it was o.k. then i left it in the bag and forgot it. Fast forward five years, i remembered it got it out to reacquaint myself with it and...........no power.
to date 3 people have looked at it and given up, the last one has still got it but i assume the gas ram is still u/s unreplaceable......whatever !!!!
Diana has the Adventure Line, made in China, and the Performance Line, made in Germany. They're priced accordingly!😂
I was wondering why we haven't seen these in real rifles. I presume its to do with putting nitrogen in something that gets hot. If these gas rams really do last longer you'd think manufacturers would be all over it. There's definitely been an increase in gas rams in recent years
Norica zrs is a gas ram.
The weihrauch 90 is ideal for FAC power. If you set it for under 12 footpounds the gun don't shoot well. Very heavy piston and very very long stroke.
Dave Theobald Ben Taylor
Diana's entry model rifles are made in China nowadays. They feel very cheap and have triggers akin to a staple-gun. You can recognize them as they have the model name in numerals (ex. "two-forty", "eleven", etc...)
Their classic magnum springer models are still made in Germany and have their model names in digits (ex. 48, 460, 350, etc..) and are fairly decent rifles, allthough wooden-stock versions might be a bit overpriced. - I own three of them. T-06 trigger feels pretty good, the action is easy to disassemble and spare parts are easy to come by in the EU.
The quality of assembly has dropped-off compared to 2 decades ago, as far as I'm told by older shooters. They are lubed very sparingly from the factory, that I can confirm.
Never heard much about the Diana N-tec (gas-ram) models. The fact they aren't offered anymore might be a bit telling, not even as seperate conversion kits.
It’s one or the other
Perkin guns Daventry have some...
Yes ..triggers where awful on the theoben gasrams .
£408 for a fenman when they were brand new
The trigger is fine on my Fenman. Bought it new and haven’t adjusted it.
No, I had an HW90, too heavy, too much work pulling the lever, bought an Air Arms S400 instead, so much better.
Nice one nick xden xden
Hi Nick. This may be an unpopular opinion but i love my gamo whisper IGT. (Gas ram). Was my first rifle after a few years out of the sport. The firing cycle was a little harsh at first but calmed down a bit over a few tins. I now have close to 30 air guns. Mostly projects but at least 10 working perfectly. I really missed the IGT When it has needed seals. It is actually quite a forgiving platform especially for hold sensitivity. Very consistent over the crony. My wife likes it so much i brought the spring version for her which will also group very well but is much harsher and will kick you in the teeth if you get overzealous with your cheek weld. Had them both apart and the ram fits perfectly. The spring on the other hand needs a plastic spacer and slip washer over a terrible plastic cross that runs through half the gun as an excuse for a spring guide. I feel the powerplant was designed for ram and had a spring shoved in as an afterthought but don't know that for sure. She enjoys the gun and takes a lot of bunnys and squirrels with it. Just feels unrefined to me whereas the IGT feels nice... to me. Different strokes for different folks maybe. Both rifles will give exceptional accuracy over sensible distances i just bonded with the gas ram and not the spring version. All my other rifles are spring powered break barrels with the odd under lever thrown in. I love spring guns but feel you shouldn't discount a gas ram entirely. Especially if you are starting out, they can be a great forgiving rifle. Just bare in mind springs can be posted, rams must be collected in person or RFD transferred which can add to cost. The ram in the gamo lasted a chunk longer than the spring in my bsa meteor mk7 evo which has the same internals. Is not my favourite gun but is up there and is an enjoyable experience every time. Sorry for the essay i just love that gun and newbies seem to get on well with it. All the best pal. Loving the vids by the way. Thanks for all your hard work. All the best.
Be interested to see your testing and results on that HW90
O dear, your bias against the HW90 is clearly evident here. I have around 25 Weihrauch, Walther springers, some with your TBT kits inside. I also have 2 HW90's 177/22, both long barrel version, super accurate, reliable and a great experience to shoot. In business it's never a good idea, in fact its bad practice, to run down the competitions products.
How is the HW90 competition? I am just giving my opinion of it. I could lie and say everything is lovely and I love it all if that helps😁
For someone who solely provides spring kits, clearly comes across here as my spring product is better. They was no positivity about the HW90.
That certainly wasn’t my intention. My conclusion was; if you find a TB version, buy it! If you want an HW90, buy it! If you think it will revolutionise your shooting, it won’t.
I think that’s a fair assessment, and it came off much better than the HW35 and BSA’s that I do make kits for!😁
Are you in America? I think you have caught the American disease of pontificating and repetition.
@@ks-eq3yx oh, sorry about that🙁
Black bunker bm8 folding rifle is gas ram. Also has a terrible trigger.
However, it's extremely easy to cock and doing 11.5+ ft lbs in .22.
My hw90k has similar power but it's harder to cock. The elite trigger is easily equal to the rekord.
Ben Taylor
Its a gas strut