Yes in the democratic West we are used to discussing all these issues , but as Christians the word of God as revealed in the Bible is our measure and our guide ….
We must pray for our Western nations to humble themselves and pray and ask for forgiveness so that we can present ourselves pure before a holy God and before the man and woman in the street and adhere to the Bible's perspective on sex and gender. Thank you Vaughan Roberts for standing in the gap.
Justin Welby should read the comments below and then he will be obliged to realise that he doesn't speak for the entire church or even a small percentage of it and then he should do the right thing and retire.
No. Not sola scriptura. The Bible and the magisterium must be consulted and not crossed. The ego is a fallible and blind sinner, although bravely seeking the light of scripture. The magisterium therefore, must be considered before one's own interpretation of scripture. Hi 👋 with you: no man lay nor cleric may change either.
Sorry but don't hold your breath regarding the CofE going back to living it's life in service to Christ through the holy scriptures. I left after being a member of the CofE for 55 years and am now a confirmed Confessional Lutheran in the Evangelical Lutheran Church of England (ELCE.) I couldn't be happier. It is such a relief not to be waiting for the next theological car crash statement from Welby and his cronies.
27:35 + Why do we want to avoid this and have an orthodox grouping that is still within an apostate church? Surely the formation of something similar to the ACNA would be the best solution?
I suggest that the description of our sinful condition as described here is inaccurate. We all have a fallen nature and are subject to temptation to sin. If we say that we all commit sexual sin, that gives the unrepentant sinner an excuse to think that he is OK then, because we are all up to it. Being tempted is quite different from acting on it. Even Jesus was tempted.
God left the C of E many years back when He burnt down Yorkminster after they ordained a bishop who did not believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection. "When the foundations are destroyed what can the righteous do?"
It can't be denied, speaking of the C of E collectively. But I pray that individual congregants live and pray and serve the Lord our God. It is to your great credit that you maintain faith and belief in Him even with the burden of a harlots' church. Amen brother in Christ.
whether anyone rejects the teaching of a church is immaterial, being neither here nor there ( it might even be a good thing!) but if Welby rejects the teaching of SCRIPTURE that is entirely a different matter. I regard tradition as merely another name for lazy thinking. The scripture and scripture ALONE is the authority of truth and morals. IMO if you speak of the church's authority and reject sola scriptura you have nothing to offer me
Despite the usual reactionary anger from the conservative faction Welby's full comments in the interview were measured, graceful, and even deeply considerate of those who disagree with him. I would encourage anyone who's genuinely interested to go and listen to him carefully, and respectfully. Vaughan Roberts' approach to this issue is deeply mistaken and harmful, and I'm glad that Welby speaks for the majority of senior clergy, not hardhearted hardliners like Roberts.
Welby should NOT resign. He should be deposed, as having denied the faith. The question / problem is why apparently there is no such process within anglicanism.
So what do you say about Augustine’s Just War theory in the light of Scriptures absolutely clear injunctions, ‘Thou shalt not kill,’ ‘Love your enemy. Turn the other cheek’? Or do we only stick rigorously to Scripture when, personally, we not going to be hurt by it?
Anglican's you guys are crazy.... how is this even a topic? If we can't correctly define sin, we have no reason for Christ dying on the cross. Welby needs to be removed or the church needs to split.
Alcholics have a challenge .Drug addicts have a challenge .Gambling can be a problem .Sex Addiction can be a problem .If you are in the Clergy you are an apostle an example sin is the worst thing in the world .Thinking is not the problem it’s acting on it
As Christians, we should look up to Jesus, not Justin Welby. We should follow Jesus' example. The Word of God is accurate, not Justin Welby's. We need the Word of God to teach back at our schools.
Other religions hold the view that it's immoral and put to death the people who do such things. Because it's a sin only punishable by death. It not right to serve unrighteousness when the world doesn't. Christianity however tolerated it. But you'd be wrong to go against world religions and think they accept the view the UK has took. And to be honest politically devided the nation.
Not sure who your question is to, but I think Vaughn makes the point against criminalisation on the basis that it is inconsistent if it’s being selective, ie being inconsistent to scripture in punishing one kind of sexual sin and not another; otherwise, (if you think about it) those calling for criminalisation, if they are being consistent, must also support the same for adultery. In Mosaic law concerning adultery, the ancient Israelites were required to stone the guilty participants to death. In its 2000 year history, by contrast, no such law was ever enacted within the realms of Christendom, at least not in Europe, as far as I’m aware.
There are a number of verses dealing with these topics: e.g. Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, Romans 1:26-28, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. On marriage, read Genesis 2:24, Mark 10:6-9, 1 Corinthians 7:2.
Isn't it the whole purpose of the invention of protestantism?---Do whatever I like. Believe whatever suits my personal needs( especially those concerning sexual needs).
I just can't bear the way in which you tear a good man down from teh first minute of this podcast - crucifying Christ all over again. . It truly is unbearable... I could not watch any more
Any right- thinking person would reject the church's teaching on most topics. Welby is just trying to stop his church becoming more irrelevant than it already is.
Do you really believe that if Jesus was here today, with his message of love and compassion, he would point his finger at gay people and condemn them as sinners for being what he created them to be.
He didn't create them to be gay, and if any of them give their lives over to Him, they will be led out of sexual sin like everybody else. Flee sexual immorality....1 Corinthians 6: 12 - 20. The word of God is NOT OPTIONAL.
I assume that by the logic expressed in this video that the Archbishop of Sydney needs to resign as he permits deacons and lay people to preside at the Lord's Supper and doesn't insist that the churches in his diocese are furnished according to the rubrics of the Book of Common Prayer, so the Lord's Table is in its accustomed place and not pushed aside for the band, etc I'm not sure why evangelicals are so hung up on sex. Is there any difference between a couple who have been married in civil ceremony coming to their parish church to seek God's blessing in their lives, and a married couple bringing their pets to church to give thanks and ask for God's blessing, or military chaplains blessing instruments of war etc?
Evangelicals are only as "hung up on sex" as the Bible is. And we didn't bring the subject up in the first place; we're only responding to the revisionists' initiative to change the doctrine of the C of E to a stance which contradicts scripture and the tradition of the church.
@@Crucian1 The Bible is remarkably not hung up on sex. Paul has a fairly lengthy list: Col 3.5-10 5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming. 7 In these you too once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. Imagine what the church would be like without covetousness, anger, wrath, malice, slander, and lies. Most clergy meetings would not have anything on their agenda, and parish prayer groups would have nothing to talk about.
@@TheB1nary No - the argument was not just about scripture but also the accusation that Welby was rejecting church teaching. If you accuse someone of rejecting church teaching then you are obliged to keep all church teaching yourself, otherwise it's hypocrisy.
@@aussiebloke51 My point is that we want to give sexual immorality the same weight it has in scripture. The Bible does seem to say there is something particular about sexual sin: "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body." 1Cor6:18. Avoidance of it is one of the few injunctions laid down by the Jerusalem council in Acts 17, and Paul gives it as the chief consequence of idolatry in Romans 1. So again, we want to have the same attitude as the Bible towards it.
Yes in the democratic West we are used to discussing all these issues , but as Christians the word of God as revealed in the Bible is our measure and our guide ….
Well said Vaughn Roberts. ‘A servant of Christ not a politician!’
We must pray for our Western nations to humble themselves and pray and ask for forgiveness so that we can present ourselves pure before a holy God and before the man and woman in the street and adhere to the Bible's perspective on sex and gender. Thank you Vaughan Roberts for standing in the gap.
Justin Welby should read the comments below and then he will be obliged to realise that he doesn't speak for the entire church or even a small percentage of it and then he should do the right thing and retire.
Resign
The right thing is to repent and beg God’s forgiveness
Should be fired more like. But there is no one to fire him and no accountability. There might well be an different kind of fire waiting for him.
Very balanced interview. Scripture stands above opinions and feelings.
Archbishop Justin Wokeby
Very sad, the Archbishop is leading millions to hell.
King Henry VIII was in a committed relationship with Anne Boleyn while his lawful wife yet lived.
So that's all right then.
Jesus would probably call Justin Welby a blind guide and even a white-washed cemetery!
THE WORD OF GOD IS NOT OPTIONAL IF YOU CLAIM TO FOLLOW HIM AND HIS TEACHING.
No wonder the sheep are not being fed at the local level.
No pope and no Archbishop and no synod has the authority to change God's word. Follow the Bible or find another religion. Sola scriptura
So you support slavery?
No. Not sola scriptura. The Bible and the magisterium must be consulted and not crossed. The ego is a fallible and blind sinner, although bravely seeking the light of scripture. The magisterium therefore, must be considered before one's own interpretation of scripture.
Hi 👋 with you: no man lay nor cleric may change either.
@@20quid what do you mean? how does your question emerge from @Dilley comment? how does slavery pertain to this subject?
Lord save the CoE from such poor leadership 🙏
Too late! Not my leader anyway. My leader is Jesus Christ.
Sorry but don't hold your breath regarding the CofE going back to living it's life in service to Christ through the holy scriptures. I left after being a member of the CofE for 55 years and am now a confirmed Confessional Lutheran in the Evangelical Lutheran Church of England (ELCE.) I couldn't be happier. It is such a relief not to be waiting for the next theological car crash statement from Welby and his cronies.
27:35 + Why do we want to avoid this and have an orthodox grouping that is still within an apostate church? Surely the formation of something similar to the ACNA would be the best solution?
I have left the C of E and now attend a Free Evangelical Church. ✝️
The defender of the faith (King Charles) should relieve him of his position
Everyone can live without sex if they try. Sex is not a human right
God has never forbid masturbation.
I suggest that the description of our sinful condition as described here is inaccurate. We all have a fallen nature and are subject to temptation to sin. If we say that we all commit sexual sin, that gives the unrepentant sinner an excuse to think that he is OK then, because we are all up to it. Being tempted is quite different from acting on it. Even Jesus was tempted.
God left the C of E many years back when He burnt down Yorkminster after they ordained a bishop who did not believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection. "When the foundations are destroyed what can the righteous do?"
It can't be denied, speaking of the C of E collectively. But I pray that individual congregants live and pray and serve the Lord our God. It is to your great credit that you maintain faith and belief in Him even with the burden of a harlots' church. Amen brother in Christ.
David Jenkins was the bishop of Durham,now in a hot place.
Should he not be removed from office?
Vaughn Roberts is an absolute saint.
Can't wait for Archbishop Roberts of a third province of the Church of England.
Oh dear
The so-called archbishop should resign.
As in the days of Noah...
Well spoken, Vaughan.
Given that Welby did not hold these views when he first became Archbishop, one wonders what or who has bewitched him?
Stockholm syndrome, guv.
whether anyone rejects the teaching of a church is immaterial, being neither here nor there ( it might even be a good thing!)
but if Welby rejects the teaching of SCRIPTURE that is entirely a different matter.
I regard tradition as merely another name for lazy thinking. The scripture and scripture
ALONE is the authority of truth and morals.
IMO if you speak of the church's authority and reject sola scriptura you have nothing to offer me
Despite the usual reactionary anger from the conservative faction Welby's full comments in the interview were measured, graceful, and even deeply considerate of those who disagree with him. I would encourage anyone who's genuinely interested to go and listen to him carefully, and respectfully. Vaughan Roberts' approach to this issue is deeply mistaken and harmful, and I'm glad that Welby speaks for the majority of senior clergy, not hardhearted hardliners like Roberts.
Welby should NOT resign. He should be deposed, as having denied the faith. The question / problem is why apparently there is no such process within anglicanism.
Well done Vaughen we are with you all and praying for you very much. Stand firm, we will too.🙏
So what do you say about Augustine’s Just War theory in the light of Scriptures absolutely clear injunctions, ‘Thou shalt not kill,’ ‘Love your enemy. Turn the other cheek’? Or do we only stick rigorously to Scripture when, personally, we not going to be hurt by it?
As I've said elsewhere He is an apostate and has no right to amend the scriptures. Therefore, he should go.
What is he doing In the clergy .Marriage is between a man or women .He is confusing the argument .He can go to his Church but get out of the clergy
God will not bless what He says is sin.To Bless same sex Marriages or hitchups is wrong and lipservice, But God doesn't bless this so don't be fooled.
The "arch bishop" conveniently waited for after Prince Philip died before expressing this view!
Anglican's you guys are crazy.... how is this even a topic? If we can't correctly define sin, we have no reason for Christ dying on the cross. Welby needs to be removed or the church needs to split.
Thank You
Alcholics have a challenge .Drug addicts have a challenge .Gambling can be a problem .Sex Addiction can be a problem .If you are in the Clergy you are an apostle an example sin is the worst thing in the world .Thinking is not the problem it’s acting on it
Bravo Archbishop Welby - love wins.
The alliance should just completely break away from the C of E they will never agree.how can 2 walk together if they can't agree.
As Christians, we should look up to Jesus, not Justin Welby. We should follow Jesus' example. The Word of God is accurate, not Justin Welby's. We need the Word of God to teach back at our schools.
Well said!
I've been with my " partner" for 20 years, so sex between us is "ok"? Hooray!
What a hypocrite Mr Welby is! According to the Bible, woe to him....
JW… you really need to study the Bible and scrutinise the church doctrine with correct hermeneutics!
Can churchmembers read the letter from the Alliance?
DON'T EVEN GIVE HIM AIR TIME ON YOUR PROGRAMME! PLEASE CUT THIS FOOTAGE OUT.
I thought the King was the head and protector of the Church what is he saying?
He's only the head of the church of England. Jesus, alone, is the Head of His body, the church.
We can forget about the king, he will do nothing for Christians or the British people.
Other religions hold the view that it's immoral and put to death the people who do such things. Because it's a sin only punishable by death. It not right to serve unrighteousness when the world doesn't. Christianity however tolerated it. But you'd be wrong to go against world religions and think they accept the view the UK has took. And to be honest politically devided the nation.
So do you supportLeviticus20:13 ???
Not sure who your question is to, but I think Vaughn makes the point against criminalisation on the basis that it is inconsistent if it’s being selective, ie being inconsistent to scripture in punishing one kind of sexual sin and not another; otherwise, (if you think about it) those calling for criminalisation, if they are being consistent, must also support the same for adultery. In Mosaic law concerning adultery, the ancient Israelites were required to stone the guilty participants to death. In its 2000 year history, by contrast, no such law was ever enacted within the realms of Christendom, at least not in Europe, as far as I’m aware.
Unbelievable. 😢
But the Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality or limit marriage to one man and one woman. So what teaching exactly has he gone against?
There are a number of verses dealing with these topics: e.g. Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, Romans 1:26-28, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. On marriage, read Genesis 2:24, Mark 10:6-9, 1 Corinthians 7:2.
Isn't it the whole purpose of the invention of protestantism?---Do whatever I like. Believe whatever suits my personal needs( especially those concerning sexual needs).
I just can't bear the way in which you tear a good man down from teh first minute of this podcast - crucifying Christ all over again. . It truly is unbearable... I could not watch any more
Any right- thinking person would reject the church's teaching on most topics. Welby is just trying to stop his church becoming more irrelevant than it already is.
Welby has already made his church irrelevent
Do you really believe that if Jesus was here today, with his message of love and compassion, he would point his finger at gay people and condemn them as sinners for being what he created them to be.
He didn't create them to be gay, and if any of them give their lives over to Him, they will be led out of sexual sin like everybody else. Flee sexual immorality....1 Corinthians 6: 12 - 20.
The word of God is NOT OPTIONAL.
I assume that by the logic expressed in this video that the Archbishop of Sydney needs to resign as he permits deacons and lay people to preside at the Lord's Supper and doesn't insist that the churches in his diocese are furnished according to the rubrics of the Book of Common Prayer, so the Lord's Table is in its accustomed place and not pushed aside for the band, etc
I'm not sure why evangelicals are so hung up on sex.
Is there any difference between a couple who have been married in civil ceremony coming to their parish church to seek God's blessing in their lives, and a married couple bringing their pets to church to give thanks and ask for God's blessing, or military chaplains blessing instruments of war etc?
Evangelicals are only as "hung up on sex" as the Bible is. And we didn't bring the subject up in the first place; we're only responding to the revisionists' initiative to change the doctrine of the C of E to a stance which contradicts scripture and the tradition of the church.
Category error right there...
@@Crucian1 The Bible is remarkably not hung up on sex. Paul has a fairly lengthy list: Col 3.5-10
5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming. 7 In these you too once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.
Imagine what the church would be like without covetousness, anger, wrath, malice, slander, and lies. Most clergy meetings would not have anything on their agenda, and parish prayer groups would have nothing to talk about.
@@TheB1nary No - the argument was not just about scripture but also the accusation that Welby was rejecting church teaching. If you accuse someone of rejecting church teaching then you are obliged to keep all church teaching yourself, otherwise it's hypocrisy.
@@aussiebloke51 My point is that we want to give sexual immorality the same weight it has in scripture. The Bible does seem to say there is something particular about sexual sin: "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body." 1Cor6:18. Avoidance of it is one of the few injunctions laid down by the Jerusalem council in Acts 17, and Paul gives it as the chief consequence of idolatry in Romans 1. So again, we want to have the same attitude as the Bible towards it.
Some ppl are born gay
Hiw do you know 'some people are born gay'?