The Paranoid-Schizoid Right vs The Depressive Left | FRANK YEOMANS
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2019
- Frank Yeomans discusses the political spectrum in terms of object relations theory and the importance of accepting and embracing the complexity of the world rather than regressing to simplicity. Illustrated with a clinical example of a patient with BPD.
We talked with Frank Yeomans about Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) and how they can affect us on a personal and societal level.
Frank Yeomans is an expert clinician who makes use of Transference-Focused Psychotherapy in his practice treating NPD and BPD. In fact, he co-wrote the manual on TFP for Borderline Personality Disorder!
Check out our interview of Otto Kernberg (who mentored Frank Yeomans) for lots more related material: • Dr. Otto Kernberg
For more information about BORDERLINE, the feature-length documentary we made about BPD, please visit: borderlinethefilm.com
Our archive of videos on BPD and NPD is expanding - be sure to subscribe to our channel here: / borderlinernotes
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Brilliant analysis. My fave quote: "simplicity wins out over complexity, however complexity is reality".
Yeah that point really hit point with me too. To share my own life exp...my politics totally switched in the part of my life where I realized the folks I grew up around obviously picked the simplicity. I never could stand to be so unfair as to be simplistic about the complexities of human nature.
@@Himel_Creeper_Bros well said
I liked your comment. Then I checked out your video collection which was awesome, and then I saw your photo and you truly are a beautiful woman a model no doubt. Im very impressed.
Words of a moron.
@@abcabc9893 nice simple statement 😂
Yeomans said " How can we educate people to not shy away from complexity?" How can we educate people to embrace it and appreciate it rather than be threatened by it?" I would add, " how can we embrace ambiguity, curb the need for certainty and value the state of not knowing? If we learn to sit patiently in a state of " not knowing, " it helps create the conditions that make real answers more likely in time. It also makes us less vulnerable to being duped by political & religious charlatans who falsely claim to have answers for us.
Well said.
the guy is kinda slow tho in a way isnt he? you can not EVER educate people on complexity, that is a matter if intelligence in all the simplicity and complexity that means.
The dude talking is projecting his intelligence out and assuming the world to be similar... a very common but big big mistake
understanding complexity makes that duping impossible
you can not educate people on it as it is about their levels of biological intelligence, the structures and neurochemical and patterns of neuron interconnectivity their brain works with that make that possible.
you can refine or teach the ability to be better at anything to anyone but their is a hard limit each of us have that is very different from the next or last person, unless you are the average in which 80%are kinda like you, but those 80% of our general population are not likely to be capable of learning those things or rather understanding them (value of and reasons of) and as such can only be duped into things so to speak... sadly so
@@animalmake7149 Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I agree that understanding complexity goes a long way way to making duping impossible, but have seen in myself and others that it doesn't provide 100% protection. Artful con-artists can and do hoodwink intelligent people by first provoking strong emotions in their mark. Once one become upset or off balance, the amygdala kicks in, overriding our cerebral cortex with fear induced cortisol. This can create enough turmoil to interfere with both our stability and ability to optimally manage our emotional state. We then become more vulnerable to the artful machinations of expert con-men and con-women.
@@barrylyndongurley haha very true... I rely on my animal instincts , reading the person and large physical size to take over once I discover they play that game.
that and when I get in a stressful situation I usually go to an adrenaline dominant response vs cortisol... my mind gets sharper and faster ... so I just get more and more specific and double down.. keep pushing
Unfortunately it is their only equalizer, a less intelligent person can only fight the more intelligent by basically acting dumb and nonsensical and riding the wave of chaos ... but the cost of that for every one is so high
it seems contemporary culture is becoming an exaggerated derivative of that... from our political actions to the accepted mechanisms of "debate" , "communication" in daily life and it seems now even into peoples internal dialogue (via the conditioning a connected world allows)
I subjectively see it as they have less ability to see, make or do so they turn EVERY gosh darn "opportunity to take advantage of whatever they can" along with the need to hold onto silly views because it is all that separates them from a madness of reality which would just break them. (this last bit is very subjective)
if you got more to say I would love to read it !
The problem of ‘simplicity over the complex’ is one of the biggest problems we face. However, it is a two pronged issue. Those that often understand the complexity are not always very good at understanding the emotional responses they are facing. Unless you deal with those first then you don’t stand a chance of explaining things and persuading people.
It helps to make clever use of black and white vs color video. :)
@ESP Thinking - I think it's more a question of existing on two levels - either emotional/ thalamic or cortical. Most people can do one or the other, but few are any good @ balancing between both -e.g. from emotional to cortical. Then allow the cortex time to process information & then compare both to achieve balance ! - Works for me :)
To a certain extent the emotional needs are a mute point. No one can address individual emotional needs while addressing group needs. Too much variance.
no no no , most people are simply too simple to understand complexity (brain structure is too simple). you are convoluting a completely different subject into the mix with this one. Unless you raise base intelligence you dont have a chance to explain things or persuade the conscious mind of another.
@@animalmake7149 that’s the point. We need to teach emotional intelligence
I love Frank but I think this is a bit flawed. While my ideology is left-leaning, it would be naive to think that individuals on the left are not functioning at the paranoid-schizoid position when so many are quick to label others as morally deficient when they are not aligned with their views. I think it's sort of ironic to be applying Kleinian theory to describe (or split...) political parties in terms of superior/inferior mental functioning.
Seriously. Glad someone on the left could see through this absurd nonsense.
A decade ago I would have agreed with this analysis. However, at this point in time, it feels like the political Left are just as paranoid-schizoid as the Right! They are in complete denial of their hypocrisy and fundamentally believe that they alone have the moral high ground. This allows them to justify all of their beliefs and completely disengage from critical analysis of any viewpoint that doesn’t agree with their own.
You're actually misrepresenting what Frank's said. Conservative "tendency" - his term - to paranoid-schizoid thinking acknowledges a more complex picture among individual conservatives. That is depressive framing.
Regarding liberals who are "quick to label others as morally deficient," Frank would agree with you that this is an example of liberals thinking in a paranoid-schizoid way. However, the depressive position is not a permanent state. It is a capacity. We see depressive capacities beginning to develop in children when they grow out the primary narcissism of "I demand my way only" and begin to demonstrate an acceptance of "other" needs and views - they start feeling things like "I'm sorry" and "I see your perspective." Everyone, even mature, reasonably "healthy" folks, is vulnerable every now and then to slipping into more paranoid-schizoid thinking, especially in moments of emotional duress. But emotionally mature folks generally possess the capacity to reflect upon things they've done that have, eg, hurt other people, and feel regret over having done those things. Regret comes from the depressive position. It allows us to grow and improve.
The depressive position in no way implies an inability or impermissibility in discerning right from wrong. It is paradoxical, not ironic, that it is in fact from a depressive position that we can appreciate the "mental/moral superiority" (if we must frame it that way) of concepts like diversity, inclusivity, remorse, humility, forbearance, openness vs that of their counterparts - homogeneity, exclusivity, indifference, arrogance, intolerance, defensiveness.
As to the question of those conservative tendencies toward paranoid-schizoid thinking, see the broad and increasing embrace of Donald Trump among conservatives - in civic life, rhetoric and policy - and the framing through Kleinian terms is clear as day. There is nothing even remotely similar on the left.
@@jeffpaige6149 In the words of Stephen Fry, “It’s a strange paradox, that the liberals are illiberal in their demand for liberality. They are exclusive in their demand for inclusivity. They are homogenous in their demand for heterogeneity. They are somehow un-diverse in their call for diversity - you can be diverse, but not diverse in your opinions and in your language and in your behaviour.”
Perhaps the right (and left) are not as simple as we would like to believe.
Very sensible. How do we get out of our present sound-bite-based politics? The doctor is right, a lot of people don't want to deal with complex questions or issues and will vote according to slogans and simplistic appeals.
Because they don’t want to look at themselves. This is the 100,000.00$ problem of out society.
There are multiple reasons for this I think. One reason is that working class people often don't have time to engage with what is happening in the world, to read history and so on and so they are very often operating from a limited knowledge base that is typically laced with prejudices and misunderstandings. It is very unfortunate that the establishment has learned to exploit this fact, largely for ill purposes and largely against the interests of the people it is exploiting
There will always be way more stupid people, compared to the intelligent. Politicians, like television shows and movies, work to cater to the largest audience possible.
The stupid will always be the largest audience when it comes to things like this.
@@tos100returns The 'stupid people' didn't bring us to the brink of nuclear disaster.
@@TheGodlessGuitarist - "the establishment has learned to exploit this fact, largely for ill purposes" - The establishment don't just establish it they CREATE IT ! - in broad terms dysfunctional politicians- corporations - oligarchies etc are so obsessed with power & as a result of acting out their toxic child hoods !
The main reason we have so much to learn is our corrupt politicians have deliberately rigged the conventional education system so as to have us "dumbed down" by only training us to get jobs to make the power elites richer & also they don't want a population bright enough to challenge them as all they are interested in is obtaining-retaining power as a means of pathologically over compensating for their toxic child hood e.g. Trump & Bo Jo, Xi Jinping, etc. Not being taught basic "life tools" such as PROBLEM SOLVING/CRITICAL THINKING/ LOGIC* means we are completely unprepared to cope with our dysfunctional societies/ present "MATRIX" (See Pt.1 of the sci fi film series for "Red Pill" & "Blue Pill" - The sub plot is a modern reworking of Plato's "The Cave" where the robots use superior holographic technology to control humans by illusion. ( You can Google for "MATRIX" & Plato's "The Cave" ) Though our present holographic technology isn't up to that of the film our dysfunctional politicians use other methods to also
CONTROL BY ILLUSION !
I really appreciate these clips. Sanity in such an insane world.
he is wanting things that do not exist at all, how is that sanity?
Frank is so insightful, such a caring gentle soul, God bless him.
and kinda slow too huh
What I love about this guy is he was honest even if I don’t agree with him on some things he said, his hypothesis on the political spectrum in terms of mental health and critiqued both sides of the isle is what makes me happy
Simplistic vs complex as right vs. left feels very...simplistic.
It's high level and general.
The Right is simplistic. It wasn't long ago that ex-government employee Donald told his voting base that they were stupid, TO THEIR FACES, and they loved it and voted for him.
Meanwhile, the Left engages in intellectual debate. The people they typically like to debate are others on the Left, because the Right is reactionary, and reactionaries do not have any policy or intelligent arguments. The Right ends up falling over themselves with culture issues and imaginary problems.
@@tos100returns Sure. Whatever makes you feel superior. If you think what is coming out of the left right now is "intellectual" you have a VERY low bar. The truth is neither left or right (especially in an American context) are particularly interested in debate. It's the left that has been shutting it down so far this century. It was the right before that. Both are reactionary! If you think the cultural issues of the day are "imaginary" you are probably asleep.
lol The depressive left...yes... I am pretty damned depressed. When you speak about complexity of narrative I think there is something in that. We have moved away from reading long form texts and towards snippets of information. Engaging with a long form text like a novel develops the skill of co-creating complex narrative in conjunction with the author.
Well I'm right leaning and very prone to depression
@@baltofarlander2618 Interesting. The talk was about averages. I think important is that we all aknowledge reality in its complexity and try to work with it, no matter our leanings.
@@DerAua I'm a conservative/right & I've been quite depressed the level of hopelessness is unbearable! All I see is doom and gloom... I'm so frustrated with our leaders on both sides we' as in the people of this country have completely lost control over our lives, and our country...we literally have the workers running the corporation US inc.
They have been committing some serious crimes right under our noses many straight up treason...and we keep allowing it! For the most part it's a uni party with a very few notable exceptions, and all the drama we see is just that drama acting theater for our entertainment and to cause more division so they can keep on doing what they've gotten accustomed to doing!!!
Our government is rotten to the core the whole damn thing is out of control and they don't care about us about our future or about our nation they are literally destroying our country as we speak its a
Controlled demolition!
We need to wake up and UNITE ASAP like years ago
.we are losing our country and all of it greatness... once we are gone that's it
There's no where to run to
This is the last beacon of hope last bastion of freedom!
We're on a crash collision course with no one competent enough to correct course
2024 will be too late! Not to mention that I don't believe we will ever have a real election again, aftet what we allowed them to get away with in 2020 they'll never give up power, only the illusion...to keep us off of their backs but I believe whole heartedly that free and fair elections are a thing of the past
I get the impression that Dr. Yeoman is working off of a political paradigm that is both outdated and framed with too shallow a perspective, likely stemming from his own political bias, which we all have. Trying to be as unbiased as possible, I believe the Political Spectrum isn't defined by the left and the right's actual ability to process complexity, but in their reflexive methods of approaching complexity. The right-aligned individual tends to be wary of the intentions and abilities of other people in dealing with complex political ideas and social structures, and therefore approaches complexity with one foot forward and one foot rooted in the past, using the ideas of our ancestors to parse the future. The left-aligned individual will be quick to point out that that one foot in the past is also stuck in the mud with insects and ragweed cutting up your ankles and is more eager to jump two feet forward into the future; very willing to completely abandon an old paradigm and fashion a new one when the complexity of the world increases.
Both are necessary approaches to the world's complexities depending on the situation, and both are prone to their own pathological extremes, but they seem to have little bearing on each side's ability to actually process complexity. It honestly seems to ebb and flow in successive generations, but both the left and the right seem equally susceptible to Paranoid-Schizoid or Depressive attitudes. The right seems to have a *slight* affinity for paranoid-schizoidism, but the left has proven themselves just as capable of overly simplistic ideations of the world.
Both parties have the “we’re good, they’re bad” problem.
This is what I've been trying to articulate for years but was unable to and am grateful for the validation of an idea I've been called paranoid for. Of course people on all sides vary individually, and some of us on the left, myself included, have urges to split and judge but the ideology on the left is to accept others and complexity.
Great analysis.
So insightful.
What a brilliant discussion of our present human condition... May every soul on this beautiful planet KNOW the underlying message.
bless your simple mind
This is perfect. His group is “more complex” while the other group is “simple” seems like an awfully simple way of interpreting the world. Keep in mind, for all of human history, the us vs the barbaric outsiders has infected all groups - left and right.
I COULD NOT AGREE MORE!!! I mean come on people! Who are we going to trust for Psychiatric information??? An Ivy League educated, NYC practicing libtard Medical Doctor, or Marcus from youtube comments??? The choice is obvious to me.
so simple!
Your understanding of the assignment of types is too simple. Fittingly.
The right wasn't assigned "simplicity' and toddler-like narcissism because it's "the other group", it's assigned that because conservativism *by definition* is simplistic. It relies on simplified and forcibly simplified concepts to guide a person's life and decisions. And by definition, progressivism has more complex considerations. That isn't an insult, it's a fact. It's not bad or good. Just is.
The basis of right wing politics ie. only entertaining political & social ideas which align to values established in the past, is always going to be restricted to relative simplicity when compared to every other idea that has & will emerge as societies progress into the future. The left vs right dichotomy only exists due to one group stubbornly refusing to recognise & adapt to the complexities of both the present & the future, at the cost of everyone else.
@@christofthedead sure. I guess during the 30’s in Germany, Hitler was considered progressive too. When slaves were being brought to America for business, that was considered progressive. In fact all bad ideas were considered progressive during their time.
nicely put
Out of the mouth of a borderline: "it feels good to split". WOW. Well, now we know why they split people; it feels good to them, no matter how much damage (i.e. years of recovery from PTSD) it does to the other person they supposedly "love".
God, I had Borderline Personality Disorder. It is one of the most destructive, harmful disorders to both the person who has it and anyone unfortunate enough to be "loved" by them.
Thanks for being here. Everyone splits to some extent, and the simplicity feels good. It's not just people with BPD or NPD. When you're in a split mindset, it is not challenging, it is not complicated. You don't need to take another person's reality into account. As Yeomans says in another piece, the simplicity (of organized sport, for example, or of 'good vs evil' in any blockbuster movie) gives us a reprieve from the complexity of life.
@@BorderlinerNotes I recognize that people feel that way as you come up against it everyday in life.
I rarely feel good about that kind of shallow, oversimplification, though, even when I encounter someone with a personality disorder. I recognize the toxicity to others and the danger they pose, but also feel sadness for the child they were whose dependency needs were not met.
I suppose I really like complexity. That feels better to me.
And what if you were actually *unable* to integrate your various reactions to a person (or situation, etc) into a whole, complex picture? Splitting is not a choice for someone with severe personality disorder, and the fallout causes lots of suffering for someone with BPD, as you've noted, as well as those close to them. Have you watched our Kernberg video about lack of integration and the causes of it?: ruclips.net/video/md0LTZU47Ek/видео.html
Thanks for your continued thoughtful comments on the channel.
@@BorderlinerNotes The observation and the application is where the boundary lies. Sport is a voluntary conscious involvement. Splitting is a reaction to stress. The latter should not be conflated with politics which by nature is partizan. If someone has a psychological problem, surely an interest in how it will distort other areas of life would be a useful application of their awareness. Splitting may feel good, but after the passing of events awareness returns. Then the opportunities exist for change. An explanation can't be an excuse. This how emotional acting out has gained credence in our society, with no drive to ignore it....why? Because it serves a divisional purpose...political. Power will always exploit whatever they need to for maintaining themselves. It always runs full circle....emotions always do.
@@le_th_all humans are prone to splitting on the subconscious level even if consciously like yourself....reject it.
Watch your every move for a year and see if it ever comes into your subconscious
I would have thought the right as obsessive compulsive and the left as narcissistic. Interesting. Maybe you’re talking about the extremes?
The left is highly narcissistic. I'm not sure about the right.
The poltical in psychology (or the psychological in politics) is just so fascinating!
its even more interesting when it is accurate, unlike this video
I always found the most convincing truth, despite its complexity was seductive. And if a simple answer could be easily challenged it was impossible to accept
I agree that we need to appreciate complexity. The issue, though, is that complexity is frustrating as it doesn't give an easy answer and leaves the issue undecided. Given that everything's somehow linked, the question is: Where's the limit to complexity? There are just too many layers, each with their own factors, to consider.
True, sometimes we have to simplify. But to ignore all the complexity is also delusional, so some middle ground has to be established.
Just wow on your analysis
HL Mencken: there is always a well-known solution to every human problem-neat, plausible, and wrong.
I'm schizoid-paranoid and depressed so does it make me a centrist?
Lol
This Yeomans guy knows everything
Just ask him
He speaks of things he knows, because this is what he studies.
You're also good at what you know. Speaking of which, yes, I'd like fries with that.
@@tos100returns
Are you him? Or are you one of his patients who speaks to mirrors?
Carry on
People have lives to live. Simplicity helps people navigate -- helps people avoid being overwhelmed by -- life's numerous complexities. Plus, its rationale to suffice with a slogan when gaining expertise is costly and without much benefit. Besides, persuasion and effective governance are different animals. So, their diets will also be different: simple sugars for persuasion and high protein for governance.
I am a diagnosed paranoid-schizoid and I am on the left.
Makes sense
A decade ago I would have agreed with this analysis. However, at this point in time, it feels like the political Left are just as paranoid-schizoid as the Right! They are in complete denial of their hypocrisy and fundamentally believe that they alone have the moral high ground. This allows them to justify all of their beliefs and completely disengage from critical analysis of any viewpoint that doesn’t agree with their own.
What he is saying is general, and not absolute. There are people with depression on the Right.
There is no diagnosis called "paranoid-schizoid." The term essentially describes a way of thinking, and every single one of us is capable of periods of p-s thinking. Some diagnostic categories are marked by frequent thinking in this way. In any event, most conservatives, most adults, have the capacity for depressive thinking. That doesn't mean conservatives are always thinking from that position, for example, when at the voting booth. Depressive thinking is a capacity, not a permanent state. At the same time, liberals devolve into p-s thinking when they engage in cancel culture strategies. But their underlying aims and worldview are almost always rooted in the depressive position - things like inclusivity, diversity, equal opportunity, abortion rights, etc.
I'm a schizoid and I don't care.
I think Frank Yeoman is so good to be true
The ultimate need for "security", and how that is defined individually, is possibly the biggest culprit in creating dysfunction, after the us/them mentality
This video speaks to why I think democracy will eventually repeal itself. It's thought up by a privileged, idealistic and philosophically complex minority concerned with the welfare of society as a whole. But the majority of people have a much more insecure, selfish and simplistic worldview. And they're unwilling or unable to empathize with those who think differently.
Concerns with "the welfare of society as whole" runs the risk of characterizing and then treating individuals as insecure, selfish beings who are unwilling or unable to empathize with others. Those with the selfish and simplistic worldview run the risk of getting treated as pawns by their betters, by the people who are idealistic and who hold philosophically complex ideas that, sometimes, prove to fragile to brook dissent
saw the title, liked
Complexity is perfect. I also allow for a change of position based on new facts or science that is discovered. I am fluid but very much a liberal.
Cuckservatives are usually ignorant, but have slight understanding of certain moral things.
Libtards are less ignorant in terms of scientific facts, but completely ignorant in terms of spirit and such.
None of them are better.
@@StellaLovesMusic25 Left = bad/useless.
the people in the comments need to do some research on the complex variety of streams within the left as well the right spectrum around the world and throughout time, not the recent snapshot they got on Reddit etc.
@@hiphipjorge5755 The leftist bit about 'We should attempt to correct that system' sounds quite proactive to me, rather than victimized and depressive.
Most precise and honest analysis I’ve seen on RUclips all week thank you.
brilliant
Lovely chat with the doctor, as always. Though I think here he’s guilty of adopting the oversimplified definition of identity politics rather than the complex definition, which was originally presented by the Combahee River Collective
look you separated from sane thought already WOW. Identity politics is an exercise in low intelligence
i feel there is a lot of projection going on in the critical comments. I appreciated Frank's perspective
I think if you had something more valuable to say, you'd be more specific
The Right is comprised of reactionaries. Projection is the only game they've got because they are intellectually bankrupt.
Thankyou,best case is we all stick together for the best. And Debate our differences. And remain United State Citizens. God bless America!
Brilliant
Seems like he may be viewing left/right through a bias lens.
Depressive: ie. apathetic?
interesting video ✅
The voice of reason.
I think the "leftist" he describes initially in his opinion is outdated. The way he describes leftist is in line with how leftists behaved and constructed ideological arguments 20+ years ago, but not at all how they appear to represent their ideology today. He describes very carefully and subtly the shift in leftist thinking today (deferring to lack of education, a tired argument) is more in line with being married to dichotomy (identity politics) and has resulted in a black and white way of thinking (exclusion) which is antithetical to translating complexity into a unifying simple message. I am disappointed the video ends after he makes this very important and relevant point and left feeling we as an audience missed out on him expanding on that critical point.
I'm a psychiatrist and I approve this message!
Me also love mr. Frank
but i cannot see any point in this discussion....not so strong points....
Hi...from Greece...
Interesting.
So when you say the left is complex you mean smarter, and think through things more thoroughly considering all possibilities (or at least more)? And the “I’m good you’re bad” mentality is stupid and lacking complexity. Who has the “I’m good you’re bad” mentality in your opinion? Is there also an “I’m right you’re wrong mentality” where one is failing to consider that they are wrong?
Not saying the left is smarter, but saying the depressive position signifies that someone has gone through the emotional labor of accepting their imperfection. In the depressive position, it's not that THEY'RE bad, I'M good - it's that WE are all human, all capable of doing wrong and causing others harm. We acknowledge that, and are thus able to move carefully and with humility through life, to grow, and are also able to understand and forgive others and encourage their own growth, because, yes - they are like me.
While I agree this has been common (and perhaps was more common in 2019), I have recently been seeing some republican candidates in my area embracing complexity in their political platforms. I often wonder what the political right could evolve into if it could mature via embracing complexity.
Furthermore, I've been seeing a lot of disturbing counterexamples where the left completely abandons complexity.
For instance, I support gun rights but I also support abortion rights, but it can feel like both the left and the right deny my existence because I don't fit their models.
It would be nice to have an additional dimension in politics instead of left authoritarian and right authoritarian... It would be nice to be able to vote on individual issues instead of packages and bundles
Education. America favors ignorance over a degree too much these days. Yell louder you must be right.
The solution here is elegance. Offer the public simple principles or plans of action that interact with complex reality to produce impressive results. Everything under the hood doesn't need to be on the cover (but it should be accessible for those who care to dig.) For example: "tax the rich" vs "don't tax the rich." Those are both simple and by themselves, without deeper thought, can lead to problems. A tax scheme designed to produce results taking into account all the complexities of cause and effect doesn't fit on a bumper sticker, t-shirt, or hat. But a goal or boiled down summary of a process does. Something elegant might look like this: "tax income based on wealth." That's the surface level. For those who care to dig deeper, have explanations ready. "This will make it easier for start up entrepreneurs to grow initially, fostering innovation, while making it hard for the entrenched institutions to continue to grow and crowd out others so that they can calcify and become inefficient. It will also encourage big business to avoid making highly taxable profit, which might lead them to raise wages or lower prices or pay higher dividends or invest. It will also promote class turnover rather than a static situation of class cooperation or class rivalry. Also, it would discourage consolidation, cartels, and monopoly. Finally, it would be constitutional." That doesn't fit on a bumper sticker.
..I was hoping we would see our species shift or begin shift to a type 1 civilization moving away of a type zero during our lifetime. Agreed doesn’t look like it. There’s always hope and work for peace. Nice article here ! Thank you
This is a clean, tidy way of articulating something I've noticed myself! Thank you. Thanks, also, for noting that some people on the Left (whom we might either call "tankies" or "wokescolds" today, depending on the particulars of their ideology) can also show this paranoid-schizoid style.
Absolutely. Researching the studies on this topic helped me realise something similar. I don't totally agree with horseshoe theory, but there's definitely something to in the sense that some far leftists do swing all the eay around to a very authoritarian, paranoid-schizoid, us vs them mentality. And being a tankie is about where it happens.
Does your political party..
1: Try to change peoples behavior
2: Use force or coercion/fail to ask for consent
3: Gaslight, lie, and withhold information
4: Blame-shift problems to the others
5: Spy on you/invade privacy
6: Make "others" out of people i.e "unvaccinated" or constantly reminding people of skin color.
7: Strong sense of entitlement to others resources and fruits of labor
8: Feel or act intellectually superior
9: Arbitrarily invade other countries over and over (boundary issues)
Well.. I don't know.. but it sounds like a cluster B personality disorder to me. 🤷
So Im curious..as I read this I felt yup def talking about the left here! But knowing what I now know both seem to feel the same exact way about one another which is totally fascinating to me. Not sure how that works, but its what I've been observing...
So Im not going to just assume that I know, I'll ask which party were you referring to?
@@justjess986 both parties are terrible.. and yes I heard that most politicians are narcissists, but I feel that those on the left are easier to spot. Like Kamala.. nothing about her is authentic and her staffers are quitting because of her rage and bullying.. then there's Adam Schiff.. that dude is a sociopath.. Russia hoax.. no shame.. no emotions.. creepy as hell. Lol
@@SlickSimulacrum 💯
@@SlickSimulacrum I would consider myself a progressive conservative, and agree wholeheartedly- the two parties in the west are founded upon bullshit and the exact opposite of proper social reform and progress, but control, division, and ignorance. Fighting over problems that genuinely don't matter, dehumanizing people, making reprehensible delusions acceptable and normal, meanwhile the politicians both support are little more than just money launderers for big corporations and the psychopaths that keep the gears of the war machine turning. It's all fraudulent and utterly despicable. Taxation is theft and government equates to control of the masses. Burn it all down and start over.
Yes , the right wing literally does all of that. Thanks for agreeing
As part of the leftist movement, I don’t find identity politics to be very complex. It puts people in boxes and does not show their potential and encourage them to improve self concept and accountability. He has a point about conservatives being simplistic especially in how they frame things but once a Pandora’s box is open-what to do with all that enabling just because things are complex? Being highly agreeable and altruistic can have its dangers when things are not assessed. Both parties need to come together to make agreements. Acknowledging complexities while not shifting blame and finding a scapegoat shows integrity in a party.
you know what strikes me? the self confident way those psychoanalysts carry their messages. I mean is there scientific proof for any of those speculative assumptions?
There are academic studies that show political conservatism can be predicted by low tolerance to ambiguity (supposedly a largely genetic trait) with approximately 70% accuracy.
Given the borderline and narcissistic tendency towards black and white thinking (‘splitting’), it isn’t hard to imagine that that those disorders and traits could be common in right of centre people.
@@samharrison1 u got me wrong. I meant that personality disorders are the result of a certain early childhood relationship problem with the mother and not simply inherited through genes. furthermore id like to see the study that shows that unresolved conflicts stay in the subconsciousness until they are revealed by a psychoanalyst in adulthood. actually Id like to see a scientific proof that sth. like freuds subconsciousness exists.
Bilal Hamurabi in that case I agree that psychoanalysts seem confident in their assertions, but that said, aren’t all professions and academic disciples sure about their theoretical underpinnings? All of the studies on the nurture assumption are correlational and so never ‘proven’ in the way hard science is. No doubt there is an element of environmentability but where that comes from is up for debate. I personally find the psychoanalytic arguments compelling.
@@samharrison1 well thats what I mean you often see a psychoanalyst on tv explaining how this and that conflict evolves with a confidence which is out of this world and I wonder how on earth did they ever scientifically prove that assumption? in other fields like physics and chemistry you got experiments in medicine you too and you got epidemiology but I dont see anything comparable of that in psychoanalysis. they should call it psychospeculation would be more fitting. until they come up with scientific proof i regard their theories as bullshit and stick to neuroscience as an alternative.
I understand where that confidence comes from. If you ever try to, I'll use this term broadly, psychoanalyze yourself, you will eventually discover certain...truths. It's simply a matter of making sense of what you don't understand. Just by attempting to do that I've arrived at the same conclusions that some of these psychologists got to. The fact that I'm now a happier person proves to me that yes, unresolved conflicts from your childhood can linger in your psyche until they are revealed and resolved in your adulthood. I don't know where they get the proof for their theories, but I can tell you this: when you make sense of what you observe you get to know the truth about the human mind, and then you don't need too much experimentation to know that it is indeed the truth. You don't get as easily confused or surprised when you come across a behavior in another person that is odd, because you get the sense of where it comes from. That behavior becomes easily predictable.
Dude should've read Christopher Lasch.
World is complex. But it's also simple !
Both left n right (not ALL) to some degree go beyond HEALTHY Boundary standards when we do NOT show our preferences on a respectable n honrsble manner !
The question of having left vs right in the first place is the problem. Beginning from that standpoint as a fact is a convenient oversimplification created by both 'sides' to serve individual ends.
Perhaps this split is emerges as an unavoidable consequence of a democratic voting system that is inherently black and white. Instead of voting for or against a party, what if we gave each of them a score out of 10? Then we xould accept that we are all on the same side just to differing degrees.
Vogans love Slogans.
Think a different way for one minute. All problems arise from unfairness. We all unite and demand it from the most powerful one going down. I have more power. The all powerful all is all. The all powerful one that is everything is one. This one all is empowering me to demand fairness for all and from all. This is simplicity winning over complexity. Simply. If any one anywhere is unfair to this unified whole punishment will happen coming from the all powerful all. We win. Join us. We punish the unfair.
Paranoid-Schizoid Gang 🐸🎩👌
It’s da joos
Excellent explanation of the human condition. Hence, I turn to my faith in God as the way to healing our fallibility. I understand it may take major catastrophes to bring awareness to the surface to enable us to even begin the path towards healing. So I surrender myself completely over to my higher power in order to not feel so helplessly devastated. It’s worked for me before and those experiences have ever secured my faith in God’s wisdom and care. May we each find our way out of the hopelessness that we find ourselves mired in.
I liked the analysis, overall. Some parts I didn’t like so much. I disagreed with the part about identity politics. Respect to the video’s creators.
think we all should be sensitive of all our emotional needs. A constant social healing process. 😁
ok, this is weird, because I'm definitely the paranoid-schizoid, and I'm definitely left.
Its difficult to believe that any individual can provide a completely objective conclusive view on this subject. Personal opinions and sympathies must influence conclusions. Human beings are not computers so how can such emotive, personal topics be objectively analysed?
It is from the depressive position that we are able to see subjectivity, and guard against the potential problems of objectivity. People with "depressive position" capacities strive to embrace and understand the emotional complexity of our emotional lives and existential predicament. From the paranoid schizoid position, one attempts to avoid and oversimplify these complex realities - here it's too risky to be uncertain in reality, so the solution is to feign certainty.
The complexity of the left can be reduced to one sentence:”orange man bad”
There is barely a left in the US.
Multiply it with an income system that requires many to work long hours or two jobs, and you increase the power of the superficial sound bite.
And multiply the consequences
Even education is complex. Some are very educated but in a narrow way. A broad education is more adaptable to realkty.
THE FUTURE IS COMPLICATED AND THE PAST IS AN EASY SELL
The massive advantage the “right wing” “conservative” “keep the status quo” side of the debate has in a declining society is that the past WAS better than the present and the past is really easily defined. We have pictures and videos and memories of the past. So saying “We can go back to the times you personally remember as good times” is a really really easy sell.
But time moved forward.
You quite literally can not go back to those days, even if you try and recreate it, your starting point is completely different. It’s today.
If you assume that 1950 was the high point of America and you try to turn the clock back to 1950. Well 1950 DIDN'T start with the problems of 2022. You cant recreate 1950 without the recent winning of a world war. You cant live in the glory times of the 1950 an “un know” the climate crisis.
If you totally engineered society with the jobs and the laws and the TV of 1950, it would not be anything like 1950 because the year that gave America 1950 was 1949 and not 2022.
And that's why “conservatism” is such an amazingly easy sell. Its incredibly attractive in a declining society to want to go back. But you literally can not.
So you can only move forward. And the future is unknown, ill defined, full of doubt and scary. And that is why “left” politics is incredibly hard to sell and everyone is always fighting and never unified - because the future is at the present still a debate.
“We want to go back to how it was in 1950” is super well defined and there is no debate. “We want to go forward to one of many possible futures that we cant agree on” is a much harder sell.
When things are collapsing, when you have a faction in society determined to turn the clock back to a past glory days, when you have politicians exploiting peoples fears, a media pumping out bad news to keep you distracted from the thoughts that the status quo might actually be a completely rotten tree and all you have to look forward to is an undefined future of no doubt endless horrors; its normal to have a mental health problem.
A mental health problem of some form of other, anxiety, stress, depression, is the normal human reaction to the situation in the world today, especially given that a wall of misinformation and propaganda hitting you ever day.
This is spot on! Very accurate analysis of the political extremes. I've never heard it explained better.
🤔
With what I've said I think I could see this guy and feel he could put aside his political views.
I wonder how many victims of crimes are dismissed by cops as "paranoids" and sent to someone like this. High profile criminals aren't even prosecuted till they are old men.
Dude can't get past his own biases. It is almost comforting.
When psychoanalysis pathologizes politics in favor for a real politik that would benefit only the coming to power no others than technocrats. After all are not technocrats seeing the good and bad only in this complex world? Aren't they the mature psyches ? psychologization of politics giving health either side of the spectrum is ridiculous. And what he describes as the left seems more like eu technocrats. Politics is about emotions and views also? not object relations and complexity and rationality. Why not instead talk about ideology and fantasy?
Nice. As a leftist I'm so doubtful I end up going into the paranoid state lol
Good news, though - while the depressive position may not be a permanent state, it is a capacity. We're all capable of, and all to one degree or another slipping into paranoid schizoid thinking when pressures mount. But if we have developed the capacities of the depressive position within ourselves, we can always return to a place of reflection, of sitting with complexity, uncertainty, feelings of remorse for wrongs we may have committed, of not necessarily having a clear right answer, and being able to emotionally bear these kinds of realities...... without collapsing and perverting reality into black/white/right/wrong-style simplicity and then pretending the problem's solved.
Imagine Donald Trump not in a paranoid schizoid position. Not possible. Some people never evolve the reflective and emotionally sophisticated capacities of the depressive position.
Nice propaganda piece accuse the right of what the left does
These are clinical discussions... What aspects of his statements do you disagree with clinically? I assume your a highly trained mental health clinician to be so certain this is “propaganda” (aimed at who, I’m not quite sure).
Do you feel this way about all of Dr. Yeomans’ work? Have you ever read any of it? Had you even heard of him before you somehow ended up watching this video?
Have you ever heard of defense mechanisms, specially projection?
@@tadghoconbhuidhe9757
Exactly! There's that simplicity rearing it's ugly head ! Lol
OMG you just nailed what he said! What a hoot! So sad.
@@tadghoconbhuidhe9757 When you're questioning someone's intelligence, you should probably use the right form of "you're" - this "analysis" was horseshit
The problem is that vast number of voters, either in America or elsewhere, are people who didn't intellectually grow up. They were brought by simplistic parents to become simplistic children, and eventually simplistic grownups. And the fact they were fed simplistic answers provided by religion technically since their birth to the disadvantage of getting to learn complex explanations of complex questions, is not helping.
If you view complex messages of religions as simplistic, then you are simplistic yourself. Any religion > atheism.
@@baltofarlander2618 The message of Christianity is that if you don't believe what we say, then you're a doody head. Plus, NOBODY is allowed to question it under threat of eternal damnation in h-e-double-hockey-sticks. Any philosophy that goes that route is not worthy of practice.
Your assertion is weak, at best.
Religions are set up in such a way where they can be used to justify anything. American Christianity is post-hoc justification for all of the horrors they want to commit anyway. If they ever feel badly, they can just say that they are forgiven. It has some complexity, but only in the schizo realm.
As for Atheists, they merely hold the position that they don't see a reason to believe in ANY gods, regardless of whether or not they are commercially-available for purchase. Christians reject 99.99% of the same gods that Atheists do not believe in.
The Atheist position is a falsifiable position. All one has to do is prove that THEIR specific god factually exists in a way that requires no faith or belief.
PS: Baby Jesus is not impressed with your arrogance.
RIP @Balto Farlander
@@baltofarlander2618 The way religion is taught is simplistic. Religion doesn't have to be simplistic.
Slogan mentality?? This is us on the left these past 6 years
Also "us vs them" is literally the principle by which the modern left live. As soon as you say something which doesn't align with the left's ideals - even if it's just one small thing - you are immediately labelled as a racist, homophobe, transphobe, or sexist and shunned from the "alliance". You are not allowed to even attempt to look at the world from a different perspective (case in point: Jersey E-girl, who is a liberal, was following right-leaning accounts in order to gain a more holistic perspective on the world; she was banned from Twitter for white supremacism), as if you do, then you become part of "them" and stop being part of "us". Regulations are being put in place which legally prevent you from having a different opinion (i.e. cancel culture) so that you are forced to be part of "us" against your will.
I don't know if the man in the video is being disingenuous or just completely oblivious to reality. I mean, the left, as a group (as loosely defined and as arbitrary as it is), has a number of advantages over the right: they are in general more compassionate, less likely to hold non-evidence-based and provably irrational positions, etc. However, having a more well-rounded and more encompassing worldview is definitively NOT one of these advantages - in fact, it's actually one of its biggest disadvantages. If you assess the situation as objectively as possible then you will agree with me.
A sad reality- esp disturbing given that those kind of dogmatic bumper sticker expressions have historically been associated with the other end of the spectrum. A defining characteristic of the left has been a cognizance of the hazards of that kind of kneejerk group thought. There's that amusing quote from Terry Pratchett about the IQ of a mob being zero- ...for sure applies to both political sides.
The Right has no shortage of slogans, each one dumber than the next.
"Let's Go Brandon" is a great example. "Let's" sounds NOTHING like the word it is supposed to replace. Then there's "MAGA."
The Left is relatively blank when it comes to slogans.
@@maxkho00 You're projecting. It's the only game that the reactionary Right has, as they are empty inside.
@@tos100returns Projecting how exactly? I'm not even right-wing. I'm a (slightly left-leaning) centrist, so my pov on this is pretty much as unbiased as they get. Across the political spectrum, the "us vs them" mentally is most prominent on the moderate to radical left. Ironically, your claims of projection are themselves likely a form of projection.
He’s talking about ‘sensemaking’- a new buzzword.
I have borderline personality disorder and I consider myself beyond the left to a radical which means I think the system needs to be gutted and refined.
And I don't like talking to people because I don't like capitalism, but I dont have the money to move to a more progressive country.
I'm always sad and angry about how the world functions... I don't want to be part of society because everyone's lives are running to suit capitalism where I want people to be more intelligent and altruistic and honest.
It is never going to happen, but I can't use reality acceptance in this situation. I cannot accept that I live in a world in which superficiality and money reign supreme.
And because I'm insane, I luckily can avoid society...
I never had social support besides my sister who died 14 years ago, so I don't want it anymore.
Society doesn't make it a point to learn about mental illness or disabilities. We have to conform and function how capitalism thus society wants us to. And I don't want to. I just want to be alone and talk to people when I have to.
Indeed splitting is provocative, it gives people a sense of control but it is a base level mentality. It boggles my mind how many people fail to recognize that right wing politics are identity politics. The left is inherently more complex because it’s more inclusive. Even if it is currently fracturing - it’s because so many groups are represented. It’s not simplified and tidy, it’s complicated and confusing - which is more realistic.
I would argue that the left is more inclusive so long as you are on the left. Divergent opinions are not tolerated. Just check any college campus. Left and right have their own identity politics, true. The left and right spectrum is insufficient to explain why if a person is killed with a national socialist bullet (fascism) you would be just as dead as you would be shot by an international socialist bullet (communism).
Psychodynamicist
That’s surface level analysis, whether it’s naive or disingenuous. The idea that the left and right “both have their identity politics” is a false equivalency. The entire root of the ideological right is identity and specifically, exclusion.
@@bucknessity it's the old canard that the "right" is racist again, isn't it? Look back at who the racists were in this country. They were southern Democrats. The (post?) modern left is so tied into identity politics that they've even invented a calculus of identity called intersectionality. This is where the more favored identities you have the more you matter. I consider this laughable and the denial that there is no identity politics on the left just that: denial.
Psychodynamicist You seem to have a willful misunderstanding of these concepts and the history of our political parties. In that case, I must excuse myself from this exchange.
@@bucknessity No, @Psychodynamicist was spot on. You are clueless. There is a huge amount of complexity on the right. And identity politics is not a part of most of it. In fact, identity politics is despised by most on the right. The left is dominated by identity politics (i.e., intersectionality). If you don't understand this, you don't know anything about politics.
Holy... I tend to be averse to right wing thinking and this might explain why. I cannot see things in simple black and white. Everything is deeply complex and interconnected in my mind.
Find a new explanation because that is why I am on the right.
@@user-ri4jx2lp7x So, you believe that eveything is simply black and white, or some kind of binary? You think that things are not connected to one another?
@@kovenmaitreya7184 it's like splitting quite permanently. A lot of people on the outer left are very dogmatic and emotional about it. 'Be tolerant like I am or else'.
@@user-ri4jx2lp7x Yeah, I tend to feel like the left has over-simplistic views. Also relies less on intuition.
I don’t think left are as complex as you think.
You think correctly.
Love these presentations, but that horrible beep in the intro is more than annoying. It’s physically painful.
"we are good, they´re bad"
are you sure this is more common on the right than on the "he's literally hitler" side?
Consider the broad and increasing embrace of Donald Trump among conservatives, and your answer is clear as day. Consider republican policy, and your answer is clear as day.
Mileage will absolutely vary among individual conservatives and liberals alike. But the acceptance of this is a depressive position. Frank speaks of this as a "tendency," not an unequivocal law, among conservatives. And he's right.
i dont think such generalizations should be made based off peoples political beliefs but thats just me
It's more about issues, and how conservatives vs leftists approach the same issue. For example, on energy production: the right says: - if you shut and or slow down fossil and or nuclear energy production before you have an alternate energy source in place, prices will go up, the poor will suffer, and oil rich bad people will gain power, and we will still consume the same amount of energy. So, that's exactly what happened when Biden implemented his energy policy. The right was not making an us vs them argument, it was a pragmatic look at what happens when you make a change too fast and too complex. It was a simple problem, and needed to be understood as such. On the flip side, the left with heavy opposition from conservatism has made many progressive changes that have made life better for many e.g. moving us away from simplistic dogmatic unscientific religious standpoints that though kept us safe, also kept us stagnate and suppressed many. Simplicity and complexity, both have a place, we need leaders that understand this and make good choices not based on us vs them.
Left / Right is controlled opposition answering to the same ruling elites. There's simply too much concentrated money and power at stake for it to be any other way. They must keep us divided and expending our energy fighting among ourselves so that we don't figure this out.
This is the most ironic video in this series lol
I have schizoid personality disorder. While my trust issues are fairly epic, I am also a liberal. My worldview is filled with gray areas and spectrum lines. Several of the 'points' being made in this video do not make any sense to me at all.
thank-you again. like inclusion as an american goal but does it mean me or thee....growing pains with aspirin not opioids....
I was calling it animal brain.
Tribalism.
I’ve never seen a better example of being simultaneously correct and wrong about Trump and the current state of politics.
Everything ends with politics
'leftist look at all the details' while the right are 'simple minded'
Yeah.. uh about that. I talked with white nationalists & left-wing people yet I had an easier time sharing opposite ideas to the people promoting jewish genocide than the suposed 'complex leftist'
They are complex because they say non-sense on repeat. A game of telephone withn an echo-chamber if you will. The group I talked to were discussing about ww2 and the nazis, spewing random cartoonish nonsense while praising Stalin's contribution to their downfall. Upon reminding them the circumstance that led to hitler rise and the action comited by the communist before & after being betray by Hitler I was silenced/blocked
The white nationalist on the other hand talked about race and white superiority. Made a detailed argument about some race having advantage over others (minor) and discussed about evolution which eventually led to space exploration/colonisation and the resulting mutation causing a split. Sure you had one or two detractor but I wasn't rejected and some actually took my argument in good faith
Of course you could say the nationalist are being nice to slowly indoctrinate me within their ideology (slow radicalisation) but the fact stand, you can talk to bigot but can't to 'tolerant' individual. Also noticed many leftist seem to hold ideas that are even racist (basically extermination trough decreasing one race fertility rate and increase one other) than individual that are pro-segregation (race separation to maintain purity)
Same thing can be said about definitions. Leftist love avoiding using those not benefiting their argument (example: what is a woman) make up others (gender and equity) or modify definition to aprove their worldview (changing the definition of woman or replacing 'sexes' with 'genders')
Remember! Simplicity isn't bad.. we don't have to overcomplicate everything and sometime is beneficial to keep thing simple (Food production, law, etc)
Also I had bad encounter with therapist.. many are narcistic borderline psychopaths who ironically oversimplify complex issues. Example assuming a child is autistic because of their antisocial behavior ignoring outside factor such has their family moving out (very often) ending communication with close friends/teachers and their recent arrival limiting the odd of them replacing/finding friends. Then imposing things that ironically lead the kid going own a more isolated path worsening their psych has they grow up
I apologize for the grammar, I am french. Its not an excuse, I just only recently (re)started studying the langage
I can't imagine going to this guy for therapy. He's so arrogant and condescending. His view is far more simplistic than the ignorant rubes he looks down on. He is so nearsighted, his valuation of the world is nearly useless.
You think that these ideas are useless? You think Melanie Klein's ideas are useless? These are not his ideas. They have been around for over one hundred years and most psychotherapists use these ideas to help people understand themselves. You won't even accept the theory? Interesting!
@@kaytsippy1981 Not the ideas, the person. Please read more carefully.
@@brettv.9174 What about the person made them arrogant if not the certainty with which he speaks on these ideas? His general tone? You must be picking up on something i am not. Projecting the bad feelings out of yourself onto him? I wouldn't know if you are doing that as i am not your therapist.
@@kaytsippy1981 Not projection, but it is a pet peeve of mine when someone is so narrow-minded but self assured that he is correct. Psychology is not an exact science and humans are very complex creatures, so a proper view of the human person and a great deal of humility is required for proper assessment and treatment. He seems like he is deficient in information but overflowing with confidence.
@@brettv.9174 He's explaining very fundamental ideas that therapist's use as a bedrock of our understanding so the confidence makes sense to me. This stuff has been researched within an inch of its life. His confidence is surely well won by a lifetime of work in this field? Therapists don't force theory onto clients if it doesn't fit! Therapists meet people where they are but that doesn't mean they won't speak confidently about theory they find essential to human understanding.