Just want to clarify my position in the video, as a few people have misunderstood. I have no issue with GW releasing new models, or with Primaris. I understand that not all kits can be kept around forever. I love the game of 40K and I look forward to many more years of playing it. But quite simply put, as a consumer, I have lost my trust in GW. I just can't risk buying their products anymore.
the scale and suddenness of this change is pretty un-precendented. Its not comparable for example to something like rough riders going to legends in 8th. this is entire armies losing rules and not being suitable for proxy or anything.
GW could have helped themselves by honestly telling us at launch that this was the edition firstborn were being retired to legends... Classic GW mucked it up as always... 🤦
Not to even mention they were talking about it like it was positive. ‘Oh look they’re retiring, but don’t worry you can use X and Y and they still get Legends rules’ like legends isn’t the graveyard of datasheets. Also the fact they made index cards for all these and made people think these were all safe.
@ryanbigler5408 absolutely. They should have announced that firstborn were going when they announced the edition though. Then there would have been very little backlash
I have thousands of dollars of models that are no longer legal for organized play. Getting flashbacks to when I built an awesome Renegades and Heretics army when they got super cool rules in 7th ed, and then they just deleted the whole army and didn't even create alternative/legends support for them. The fact that they still sell units that you can't play with at events is asinine.
My entire hand sculpted chaos space marine army (15 chosen, 5 terminators,, 2 exalted champions and a jump pack lord) aside from 100 cultists was invalidated last edition. This edition it was my scratch built storm eagle. I'm so fed up.
@@wolfhunter98 I do think that's a bit of a stretch considering this is the first time in 30 years they have done it to such a scale, except to maybe squats. If that's their product cycle then I'm fine with it.
We really need to urge TOs to allow good alternative models in any tournament that GW isn't directly sponsoring. The best thing we can do to get GW to change their ways is to demonstrate to them we don't need them in order to play Warhammer, just as the D&D crowd showed WotC/Hasbro this spring that they didn't need WotC to play D&D.
Yeah facts, GW won't change until they get told to get back in their box. Only real way to do that is to start permitting alternatives, proxies and 3D prints at non-GW affiliated tournaments, assuming they're of a certain quality ofc. If you give these corporate guys an inch, they'll take everything
@@alertedcoyote7892 3D prints and Sino-Russian copies are going to be looked at as being more viable. People aren't going to want to fuel GW directly and they will want to spend less money so as to not be hurt as bad when other changes occur in the future.
Careful what you wish for, the IP is so big they could probably lose the game. The revenue of space marine 2 will generate massive profits, deal with amazon for live action likely to do the same. They could license this IP out for decades to come as its as big if not bigger than other Sci-fi universes. If the game profit goes, the boardgame goes, it that goes so will a lot of FLGS....unless I missed all the people playing bolt action on twitch or competitively....
As an MTG player, i'm surprised that 3rd party models aren't generally used as non-gw tournaments. In the cEDH scene, proxies are more common than the real cards to keep price out of the format.
@ronin7078 the board game will survive GWs death. 9th age did very well without GW for ages, doing better than warhammer fantasy did in its final years, only leaking players to AOS and KOW, but it's still strong in Europe. The same will happen with 40k if GW ever stops supporting it. People will keep playing it, possibly a fan edition, untill a sufficently better marketed similar game comes out. But even then many will continue playing the fan edition of 40k.
Me: Gets back into the hobby after a 7 year absence when I hear about the new Guard. Codex lasts less than 3 months. Me (crying); It'S GoOd tO bE BaCk?!?!?!
I'm just happy there are still folks in my area playing 9th. So I'm still getting some use out of it... But jesus christ it was stilla let down to get 3 months of support for it....
I have never played a 40K game in my life. But i have friends who do. So i've spent hundreds of €uros on building an Imperial Guard army, but fallen to ChAoS so they are renegades. I was so stoked when they got a Codex.... i see now that it was a misstake investing in anything GW.
gave up on 10th before it even launched and bought a 4th edition rulebook and codex, never looked back. Aside from all the benefits like great balance, intuitive rules in one place and an easy points system that can incorporate any new models-you know GW can't cock it up with inteference.
The problem is, trying to get a game of anything other than 40k is at best hit-or-miss (sometime impossible). My current project is building a multi-game fantasy/historical army. I should be able to play in 5 or 6 different game systems. I'm doing this so I can build and paint models I like, while still having a chance to game.
Just getting into the hobby but thankfully I have a resin printer, I have already saved a enormous amount of money and haven't even finished my 1000 pt guard army
2:00 The moment I learned about Primaris when 8th was coming out, I knew this day was coming. So I took my Space Marine collection of 25 years, 50+ Terminators, 50+ Scouts, dozens of Tactical, Devastator, and Assault Squads, Sternguard, Vanguard, Rhinos, Razorbacks, Land Raiders, Land Speeders, a whole slew of Dreadnoughts (including the regular, Ironclad, Venerable, etc), a shit ton of Rogue Trader Space Marines, and so on, and sold it all. Over the years I’d periodically feel bad about doing that and wondering if I jumped the gun but, I have to say, after the past few months, I’m feeling pretty good about that move. God only knows how hard a time I’d be having to sell, say, those 50+ Terminators now, with the new larger Terminators replacing them.
You do know you don't have to only play the latest 40K edition? We're playing 2nd Edition at my club. It's almost as old as I am! I play against a Dark Angel player with models that actually ARE older than I am.
@@Edithae Most 40k players are idiots. That´s the only reason anyone cares about these news. Then he will regret not waiting for the "oldhammer 40k" wave to come along wanting to buy all those classic plastic models for a lot more money.
@@Edithae it's amazing the flexibility a club can have when the goal is a good time. I love 40k but, the longer I do this the more I sour on the competitive scene.
I like this but I think I would have kept like a squad of each and maybe one of each dreadnaught just so they can go up in value in like 30 years or so. Especially the rouge trader. 🤷♂️ maybe I am just a collector at heart
I started playing GW games in the ‘80s, and stopped late in the ‘90s. I was there when the Fimir vanished, the Slann fell, and the Chaos Dwarves went extinct. I watched as the Squats, lock, stock, and two smoking barrels, fell victim to the void. I openly wept. I was also there, at the End of Times, when solid formations gave way to individual movement, and suddenly my dozen assembled armies, whose combined values were in the realms of 100,000 points, were obliged to find new footing. I raged. I was there, when the will of the Creator failed, and was corrupted by the almighty power of the DollarPound. I shouted into the void, to no avail. My vistas were reduced. I decided, then and there, that I would forsake all others, and return to my first venture. My final bastion. An abandoned path, long forgotten by the Creator, whose followers had kept alive, and taken for themselves. The Bowl of Blood. Here, I took my stand. I assembled every team. Every player, Star, or otherwise. And things were good, for a time. Then, the Creator saw how grand this forgotten realm had become, no thanks to them, and took it back into the fold. Once again, I watched, as all I had put together was, once again, ripped asunder. I swore on that day, that I would stop worshipping this false Idol. I denied them, that day, and have denied them ever since. No longer would they receive my adulation, or my tithes. I was drifting, helpless, in the void, for a time. I dabbled with the War of Kings, among others, but found no solace. In desperation, I took to a Flight of Fantasy, and devoted myself to their War in the Stars, but that, too, fell, to the Games of the Atomic Mass. Then, I discovered the Rules of One Page, and I was saved. I had let go of all my assembled forces, save for the Elves of the Woods, and the Kings of the Tomb, as I could not bear to part with them, for the blood, sweat, and tears I had put into assembling them. My forces saw new life thanks to OPR, and have been seen on many battlefields since. I have even begun assembly of a new force, my Robot Legions. I have control over how many troops I need to fill out a unit. I always have exactly what I need. No more, no less. And the quality of said troops easily equals, or exceeds, the quality of those by the Creator. The Rules of One Page have empowered me, as never before, and opened my eyes to new vistas. I have since become a devotee of the Four Against the Darkness, and those who are Five Parsecs from Home. I have returned from the void, stronger than ever…
@@aoofmg6684 If i remember correctly it was a group of colleagues who used to work on the inside for GW as Game Developers - Rules Writers. Their ideas of simplifying, streamlining and actually balancing the rules were constantly rejected by the higher ups so they eventually banded together, left GW and started their own thing. They have their own channel: OnePageRules. Their 40K-rules are called "Grimdark Future". It's constantly growing in popularity.
This is how I felt about the guard changes for 9th. Removal of conscripts, veterans and special weapon squads made me lose about 140 troopers. Still haven’t recovered from that.
As a Guard main, I feel you man. We've had those for ages. For no reason, they "had a kit" at least in the case of cons and vets. Hadn't played in 5+ years, was like 9th codex is here! New kits! Oh wait were is half the unit picks? Annnd the codex is gone to 10th. -.- I remember when troopers came 20 in a box. It wasn't the same point per dollar as marines were but it was much nicer. And when you could take whole platoons.
@@wolfhunter98 yeah! I was the same way. So excited for the 9th codex. I literally set aside money for it and held onto it for a year. Just to have my army tanked.
Literally just finished painting my very first army last night (firstborn flesh tearers because Gabriel Seth doesn't like primaris) just to find out it's been nuked. Didn't even get a full game in with it. So sad that GW cocked things up so badly. Not really sure what to do now, really good way to screw people out of the hobby.
Its the people who play and share this hobby that makes this hobby so great. Their will always be others. I've been playing necromunda with alternate models for a while now.
That's what the last two editions were...The writing for firstborn has been on the wall since primaris. Frankly nobody should have been surprised by this.
One thing I don't understand why the community puts the WYSIWYG rules on themselves, this wouldn't be an issue if 40k tournaments would be proxy friendly.
They are proxy friendly? I've got a heavily converted GSC army thats never been a problem. I couldnt take it to a GW organised event because it's not 100% their parts, but all the other stores I've checked with have been fine.
Honestly, this is why i started 3d printing. Got into the printer and all the accessories for less than a 1000 bucks cdn. Havent looked back since, i just printed out 3 basilisks over the last 2 days😂
@@Fpsdood I don't see how using things that look like the official GW miniatures is that different from just using the official GW miniatures. Is it also pretending to play the game if you play orks and use bits and other kits to build custom trukks or battlewagons, as those aren't official GW kits?
The only thing I''ll say is you don't need to play the latest edition if your group of friends are happy to play an older version. Also One Page Rules has you covered. They support all your models.
This really only effects you if you dropped for a bit with old things and came back or wanted to do tourmenents, but i cant see myself ever wanting to do a GW game tounement. I pretty much did the "im done with them" several years ago, and have only recently yielde donly soley getting models so i can play the game edventually. Never going to touch their paints, brushes etc.
I started playing 40K with Rogue Trader, back in the late 80's and worked for them in the mid-late 90's, so you can imagine how many cool models I saw come and go. The last edition I had was 5th but I gave up after seeing the new larger Space Marine models and for me, the writing was on the wall, I knew the old models would be replaced and many of them would end up being unusable in future editions, that and the constant edition change every 4 years. It just got too much, so I sold everything. I currently collect and play Bolt Action, Flames of War/Team Yankee, Star Wars Legion, Armada + X-Wing V1. The big advantage of historical gaming, is that they can't 'remove' things from the game so easily. For example, a Tiger tank is a Tiger tank, no matter whether you have an old model or a new model, as long as it's a Tiger and in the right scale, it doesn't matter - you can't change actual history but you can change everything in a fictional setting and that's what GW do, all the time and I don't like it. The lesson is not to be a GW fanboy and buy into their products in a big way, limit what you get and perhaps just enjoy smaller games, so you don't throw too much money away everytime something changes. I'm contemplating getting a small Imp Guard army and playing a mix of 5th Ed, OPR and Combat Patrol or small current 40k battles. The aim being to relatively basic stuff like a few squads, some heavy weapons and a Leman Russ or 2. Hopefully that won;t be so painful in the long run.
Exactly where I’m at, I don’t play 40k hardly ever, and the reason is the constant rules changes. I’d be happy to stick with an old edition that my friends and I are happy with and never darken GWs doors again. Which would be a shame as I’m a sucker for a Bugmans burger and chips.
Welcome to the club! I moved on to greener pastures and picked up battletech and bolt action. Both games combined cost less than a single GW faction and rules don't change every 3 months. Also no model was ever taken out of the game. Whatever you bought you can use for the rest of your life.
It's clickbait he's not done with gw. We've had loads of video like this over the years. But yes, bolt action is the fucking tits and battletech is a great game. But they don't bring in the views.
I'll be honest, this sort of thing is why I opted to build my new 40k army with the idea that if GW pulled any shenanigans or the new edition turned out trash, I'd just go play them in a model-agnostic game like OPR's Grimdark Future. I wasn't going to let GW trash my hobby investment again. Last time they did something like this to me I switched game companies for over a decade. This time I just came prepared with plan B, because I knew GW was like this and has a long history of it.
This is why I was apprehensive about the tyranid refresh and the other ones people have been clamouring for. If its not removing models it's reinventing the wheel to sell you another newer unit/model for the same roll. Just looking at the nid range we've got gaunts being made more expensive to shoehorn neurogaunts in and biovores being pushed aside for bargaunts.
It's absolutely reprehensible that they did this a bit into the edition, after they'd already taken a chunk of models out, leaving people with the impression that these were safe. At this point the only right thing to do is retire the 'legends' system and keep making datasheets, even for models that are out of print. I'd also split Space Marines and Primaris into two different armies, I'm honestly sick of this inferior copy product, I want the real deal.
What I'd do is unify Primaris and Firstborn models into the same units, like they did with the terminators and sternguard veterans. No more Intercessors or Tactical Marines, now there's only Tactical Marines that can be tall or short. Same with Assault Marines and bikes.
@@matiasyannuzzi9655 Yep, it's a similar proposal that's been going around, just drop primaris entirely and make it Mk X armour, scale up the other mk's for visual interest and options and you've saved the line. Important to note that the sternguard are all mk x and one of them has a redesigned vader vent mk 7 helmet (smaller features, doesn't look quite right to me).
As upset as you are, I'm happy you're willing to vote with your money. My friends and I are always going on about how it will take a huge punch in the wallet to make GW become less unreasonable. I just hope eventually there's enough market pressure to make GW change its tune because I haven't found an actually true alternative to 40k and I hate it. I've even started working on my own custom ruleset since 10th edition's listbuilding is just so boring now.
My gaming group more often is playing with third-party rules like onepage since there is no limit to what models you use. It's a bit stripped down from 40k, but it's still fun to play with your bud's and you can even make armies using models from entirely different manufacturers.It's worth a shot if you haven't tried it yet and play outside of competitive
Grimdark Future by OnePageRules has been growing in my local area in recent weeks. Our FLGS is actually hosting a slow grow league for it. It was surprisingly easy to get rolling once someone was willing to take the reins. I wish you luck in your search.
Firefight from mantic games is actually a great alternativ. Good rules, nice Models and now prices. I think its 80 for a startet Army. Also rules are free. Just need the Army book which contains all races
I literally just got 10 of them because I wanted to play Ravenguard and use Kayvaan Shrike, and they were one of the only units he could attach to... Now? I either have to run him as a lone operative, which I don't care for, OR! Buy the new shit they are about to come out with. Those are my options.
@@seriphmichael run them as vanguard veterans with jump packs, he can attach to those. Just find yourself some extra plasma and inferior pistols since they don't cost any points
I had started collecting firstborn a couple months ago to eventually make a firstborn army, I sure do wish GW would’ve given us a heads up or something
My first, and last complete, and painted army was squats. I've been trying to get back into the spirit of the game since 1998. High prices, frequent rules changes, and now seeing massive chunks of the game discarded really makes me wonder why anyone bothers anymore.
It's perfectly acceptable to use todays prices. I remember the lower prices in the 90S, I also remember the lower salaries and I remembr the cost of living with tears in my eyes
Have you seen GWs prices? I think original blood bowl for Playstation? Like 15 years later stayed the same price lol. Their prices don't go down, only up. It's 100% fair to use today's prices lol
Ive stopped spending money with GW, 3d printing isnt my favorite thing in the world but its been a necessity for me to keep playing and modeling my 40k armies, there are so many creators out there that in my opinion make better looking models than GW and deserve to be supported
tbh I think 3d printing is a very valid and fine way to enjoy warhammer now ...I am currently printing out 3000 points of heresy iron hands .. they look great so far .. unless you are planning on attending a GW event / location / sponsored event then there is no issue with using non GW stuff as long as it looks like its meant to and on right basing .
Wargames atlantic has a lovely totaly-not-guardsmen line in their "death fields". Generally 24 models for $35 usd. I just finished my totaly-not-kriegsmen last week
love those kits and whats great is that thay also have some of the best historical mintures out there. I know I have used a mix of there Italian, German, and French resistance kits for bolt action and thay look so much better then warlords kits (my one gripe with Warlord fyi)
So I just started getting into battletech and I'm blown away by the wide variety & support they show for God knows how many mechs. Even when they advance the time line they still make sure there's rules for the older mechs
I was close to buying some scout snipers because they are so clutch right now. I am glad I passed though. Seeing units in the index made me feel like they were safe for the next three years (until 11ed).
Год назад+3
Yea! Was really excited about my scout snipers that were sitting in a box for quite a while now.
Feel my pain, stripped my snipers 10+ years ago, decided to paint them for the new edition. I'm around 70% into finishing them when I read that snipers are gone... Oh well, they are still valid in kill team at least
Honestly if you are buying models due to how strong they are in an index that was officially stated will be outdated in a few months, with points values adjusted quarterly from now on... you have only yourself to blame. GW prides themselves primarily as a miniatures company and not a game company, and you should be aware of the consequences. They will do anything to the game as long as it keeps you buying more models. What better way than changing rules around constantly when that causes people to buy more models...
Absolutely true. I got back into 40k at the end of 8th and got so tired of “primaris-ing” of Warhammer that i sold my guard army. GW is gradually “primaris-ing” most armies until you can’t play them in multiple styles and they have to be taken in one meta style in order to be competitive. Consequently these models sell at higher rates and the non “primaris-ed” models often sell at lower rates, thus gradually changing the whole faction from classic unit rosters into rosters which are largely derived from new warhammer lore which is often less grimdark, intricate and interesting. The setting is suffering as a result and I fear that GW is setting the table for the eventual culmination of the setting into some age of sigmar esque apocalyptic clash.
Bring on the Mordian Glory/Discourse Miniatures collaboration video discussing GW’s business strategy and lack of transparency with customers. Do it! 🙂
@@christopherjohnston6343 I fully appreciate people see her as divisive however Discourse Minis sheds light on anti-consumer practices, preditory sales techniques and monopolistic business strategies. All of which GW demonstrate on a daily basis sadly. Her video's are very well researched as she has a legal background. She is also an strong advocate for other games in the wargaming hobby (particually from smaller creators) and wants to show that GW/Warhammer isn't the only option out there. Despite what people think she isn't actually anti-Warhammer (yes, her titles/thumbnails are clickbait-y but she explains why she HAS to do that). She loves Warhammer, and plays a lot, but thinks GW could do a lot better in the way it treats it's customers (she also talks about this in relation to Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro). I realise this sounds like I'm a total discourse simp but I beleive a lot of people have a warped opinion of her and her channel and I'm sure many of her biggest detractors haven't even watched her video's properly/at all! Discourse is 100% pro-consumer and anti-exploitative big business - that's a good thing!
@@cronykil74 yeah but that appears to me her only thing now. Maybe I don't see the videos covering other stuff but I'm not going to follow constantly negative content. Part of why I followed Mordian for like the last 6 years is that he's Just pretty upbeat. Maybe less so lately but idk
10th really screwed me too. I ran a wonderfully gun Terminus Est list with 100 Poxwalkers in 9th. Now, I can only take 60 max. I’m hoping when the DG codex releases in 2025, I’ll get some amended rules that make my space zombie hoard playable again.
100% support you in this; I buy Lord of the Rings models from GW because they have had the same ruleset for over 20 years (slight updates and FAQs, but some of the models from 2002 are still winning tournaments with the same rules unchanged) and I know my investment is safe. But this is just wildly ridiculous. It's a massive change, and seemingly out of nowhere
Is this where we as a community take a step back and make a WH9.5, kinda like we did with D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder. If we want a fun balanced game, we need to stop letting the group with a financial incentive to make us buy certain models write the rules we all play by.
We call it ed. 10.98 Psychic Awakening at my house, where GW isn’t allowed to invalidate so much as a models load out or make any nerfs we or the lore disagree with.
I get it. Honestly if the said around the very beginning of tenth that firstborn were going to legends so people would be aware not to buy them outside of just wanting the model, there wouldn’t have been as much flak as they are right now. But then again I’m a new player who isn’t as invested into firstborn both emotionally and financially so I could absolutely be wrong.
Warhammer fans are too (idk what the word is) manipulated into thinking this is okay, to just make models they’ve supported since the founding of their company and game all of a sudden just unplayable. No other company could do 2 hard restarts without losing their entire player base like warhammer has. It’s absolutely shameful.
I get understand that GW has a lot of minis to balance for their game and some units will be on the chopping block to keep the game balanced, but the way they’re trying admit it to us is just stupid.
@sarahshaw7315 no this isn’t a mindset that we’re being forced into I agree that they shouldn’t get rid of rules for minis outright but to ask them to keep and update rules for things they no longer sell and ensure that they’re balanced to all 1000+ units is not reasonable. That’s why in 9th it was so difficult to balance units like sternguard or devestators because some “that guy” gave them all the broken weapons that were allow in previous edition.
Happened to me when they started to axe support for the Bretonnians, Wood Elves and Beastmen from fantasy. My friend is pissed about his extensive Ravenwing, probably Deathwing too as they'll need upscaling.
I'm not even mad that they're getting rid of the Firstborn. We all knew it was coming. But I am super pissed that they have straight up lied about it for a while now. And the utter nonsense gaslighting article about "just use them as other stuff!" Which tried to convince us that it wasn't a big deal. Horrendous way of dealing with it. It would be 1000% better if they just were honest and said they were going to reduce the line. Just be freaking honest about it!!!
Why aren't you mad??? The primaris range is a massive downgrade. The style is totally different. And the new rules suck. We don't even get special and heavy weapons in a primaris 'tactical' squad. Why???
3d printing makes more and more sense these days. Like a mini and print it for a $1, and if GW burns what it represents it didnt cost you a load of cash to pick up
All aboard the Bolt action train :) Not really a player more a painter. But you sold me on a the King Tiger ! Didnt realize it but seems i have a Panther + 40 Heer. So I am tempted to get to playing a war game for the first time in 7 years!! Many thanks from another Pissed 40k fan.
The game mechanics are quicker to learn, and the dice pool activation just keeps you hooked into the game. I know it’s not a game for the historical rivet counters but boy is it fun over a beer or three with your mates. There’s also zero risk of getting alpha striked on turn one and straining said friendship to the limits 😅😊
I've been done with 40k for a while. The constant meta chasing - the frequent books that cause the power of armies to spike, and squating old minis just turned me off. I'm committed to Heresy at this point because A) I like the older minis and B) I can print what I need.
Unless they're planning on retroactively fit Primaris into Horus Heresy, not one of this kits will be out for long without a proper, firstborn replacement. At least I hope so...
But then they wouldn't "force" you to go buy all the new upcoming models! Look we're about to launch all these new marine models for 10th! But we gotta kill off the old models before they launch so people are over being salty about it. Buy more! Mooore!
Only reason i got any of the HH stuff was to do first born Marine army. Can't use half the vehicles now. Reason gw gives is there wouldn't be many around at this point in lore.
Imma have to argue on the "no company does this except geedubs" I had a *massive* Soviet Flames of War army that was pretty much wiped out when that company decided to redesign the game from the ground up. I kinna just gave it away because I needed space and hated looking at it for *years* after.
i feel this. literally my entire dark angels successors was already unplayable and now several units i know i want to run, like my vindicator laser destroyer, are kicked to legends. i want a leviathan. and a spartan tank. all kicked to legends. so not only do i have entirely replace the dark angels force to make it playable. i have more reason to sculpt my own tyranids.
The burn for me started in 8th edition. My Space Wolves had models invalidated when the 8th edition codex came out and while I was trying to continue with my Dark Angels and bought a bunch of Mechanicus at the time, I had lost all motivation for Warhammer 40k. During 9th I had a look at the rules for the Mechanicus and the army load-out was invalidated so I didn't bother getting back in. Because of some friends I got into Age of Sigmar which was in 3rd edition at the time and started making a lizardmen army, armybook came out, there goes half of my cavalry based lizardmen army..... I looked at 40k 10th edition rules and both my Space Wolves and Dark Angels are unusable mostly because I don't have any primaris HQ models for my Dark Angels and I am not even getting started on my Space Wolves. I am looking at getting back in to 40k, but I am seriously planning an army that I can use for both 7th (The last good edition of 40k in my opinion) and 10th edition. I don't want to do space marines at all any more, I just got burned too much with them.
I've become fed up with them and now looking at other systems (OPR) as well as other mini manufacturers and there are countless who make very decent models for use with 40k, Necromunda, Fantasy or any system really. Its quite liberating mixing and matching figures from different ranges to create a truly unique looking army/squad/gang/kill team.
Decisions like this made me very glad i went to the dark side of 3D printing. They don't wanna respect our money? Why should I respect their IP then. This is a two way street, and GW need to wake the hell up and realise that there are really good alternatives out there now. Hell, 3D prints look better than most GW sculpts nowadays, for a fraction of the price. Its insane. Add into that new and simpler sci fi systems like One Page Rules coming into their own of late to scratch that Warhammer itch along with entirely different systems altogether like Bolt Action or BattleTech and... Why do we need GW again? Utmost sympathies to everyone who lost money with this absurd, no warning retirement wave. Genuinely, I really am sorry about that. It sucks. Always know that your firstborn are welcome at any table I'm playing at!
I had a mess of Death Korps Engineers in my collection. They went from heroes to zeroes in one edition, and they're still up for sale on the FW website! Then I look at my Grenadiers, and my Leman Russ Annihilators, and my Medusas (plural!)... I feel your pain, MG.
i know how you feel. Left when i saw that my newly finished only missing a tank Marine force was about to become obslete when Primaris rolled out with their 2 wounds.. Had to leave for another game as i could not bring myself to invest more to them except the odd special miniature to paint. Dropzone commander is what i turned to as a cheaper alterantive.
Sad to see more of the old kits disappearing. As a guard guy, I have to admit.... I shed a tear when the shift to the new sculpts occurred. PS - if anyone out there has some of the old guard plastics, let me know 😂
@@jk_actual Unassembled and still on the sprues. All the infantry are Cadians, Ogryns, etc. Only thing missing is the plastic wrap from the boxes. Do you have a Discord? I can contact you there if you do.
100% with you. If it weren't enough that GW released a new edition within 7 months of two Codices for the previous edition (one of which was just 3 months prior), they moratorium a bunch of iconic Forge World models, and now do the same to several SPACE MARINE staple units? Bait and Switch is not a good marketing strategy. Incidentally, my group has yet to play a 10th edition game, and we're not planning to any time soon.
Its sad because 10th is really fun. 9th was bloated to all heck and back so I played OPR but the rules aren't quite as granular so it kinda misses the feeling of 40k.
Mordian, I feel the same way about a 8500 point 5th edition blood angels army that I played and collected for seven years. Same with my daemonhunters army that I updated for ninth edition and which now is unplayable. For blood angels I am collecting a bit to play Horus heresy, so they are salvageable. I suppose my point is you could play older editions of 40K. I have branched into Battletech which is also very fun, does not retire units, and has a lower price point. Have fun and thanks for the channel.
I guess the real issue is almost the popularity of space marines working against them. Necron warriors got a new model, but they didn’t give the new ones without the Lego pieces on them better stats so you would throw out the old ones, that would just alienate the smaller xenos market. A lot of the new stuff would have worked a lot better as new model updates to old stuff. But then they wouldn’t have the ability to make the game worse and less fun to play for long time players, so they would shill out.
The day before GW announced putting the Horus Heresy tanks and dreads into the legends bin... I bought (given their new plastic upgrade + GW promoting them as 40K compatible) 4 Deimos Pattern Rhinos, 2 Contemptor Dreadnoughts, 1 Land Raider Proteus, 1 Deimos Pattern Predator, 1 Sicaran Venator Tank Hunter and a Typhon Heavy Siege Tank. All to be split between my Death Guard and Thousand Sons. Luckily, I bought them because I like their aesthetic (HH models fits perfectly with CSM) and the rhinos, predator and hopefully the LR would still pass, but... although we still get people ringing that "you can still play them outside tournaments" bell... putting anything into legends WILL eventually kill it. Every purchase you make from GW, you have to ask yourself "will I still see value in this purchase when it inevitably goes legendary?"... if the answer is yes, go for it. If it's no, then maybe take a stand with Mordian as GW won't change while the cash still flows. I had my eye on grabbing some old school land speeders given their new 10th ED rules... not... any... more. EDIT - Forgot to mention my resin Leviathan with 2 storm cannons (bought separately) that I got from Forge World (££) a few years back for my Blood Angels. So glad I didn't have the funds to add more HH models to my BA!
Good on you Mordian! If GW's gonna be abusive with their business practices, vote with your pocketbook. Everyone should be doing that. They won't change unless they see their bottom line get hurt.
I have said many times that they should have released a codex supplement called "Astartes Nihilus" which are chapters caught on the wrong side of the Great Rift and forced to use older wargear, older geneseed and such. They can take 25% of their points from the modern Space Marines codex, but otherwise most of their gear is firstborn stuff.
I fully understand how you feel about this. we witnessed this back with Warhammer Fantasy being ended and pushed into Age of Sigma. This has been happening even before that. We can always go back editions or find other ways like on One Page Rules. It will not change.
Ah, my fellow Fantasy lovers. We share the pain. AoS can go to hell. This is what makes me INCREDIBLY dubious about the return of "The Old World". I mean I'll be loading up on Dwarves that I necer had the chance to collect, but I'm using a different game system (I'm a sucker for GW Dwarf aesthetics)
I'm salty that they changed the weapons on Thunderwolf Calvary from all their unique melees to heirloom weapons which are rubbish their only advantage is their speed and OC value now :(
I knew this was coming from day 1. Makes me glad i moved progressively away from official. Luckily, i dont play competitive so i have more free reign. Both in models and in rule sets As for screwed over by changes... well, if i adhere to their ways... my Death guard are shelved until further notice. 7000pts and im not doing the math on it for the sake of my blood pressure. My orks and tyranids... a lot of units got fucked up badly. One example is my 10 model mega nobz. I now have to field them as a multiple of 3... so i have 4 very expensive paper weights (roughly $35 CAD a pc) or i field them under strength and screw myself over on the table. I have about 10000-12000 pts of orks and mulitple units are now fucked over like this. All my main armies need reworking that leaves models on the shelf that i paid for and laboured over to give them the best paintjob i could and now they gather dust. Unless i go elsewhere and use rules made by others. I actually havent played any real games of tenth and have been instead playing onepage rules with friends because i can still use pretty much all my stuff unimpeded by GW stupidity
I mean Privateer Press nuked the vast majority of their SKU's moving from 3E to 4E on Warmachine. But also... this isn't the first time GW has blown up a product line. It is the first time Marines have been hit this bad though
I play Blood Angels. I lost 40% of my army yesterday…that army is one I built SPECIFICALLY for 10th edition so far. That does not include the fact I can’t play any of my 25 Sanguinary Guard I can’t play because they are ridiculous in points cost. 10th edition has been rough as hell so far.
I will respect your opinion. Been playing since 96. Ditched my Black Templar firstborn army right as 9th began. I knew in time that firstborn would be phased out when Primaris were introduced back in 8th. The writing was on the wall. I'm am honestly just surprised this hasn't happened earlier. As i type this, I have 42 Bikes, 20 Scout bikes, 6 Attack Bikes, 4 Land Speeders, 2 Typhoons and 1 Tempest. All the Land Speeders and Attack Bikes are new in box. These are all from 3rd Edition when I started my Ravenwood Army. I never bothered to finish it. My Black Templars had 3 Land Speeders and 1 Typhoon. I won't even regale you with the fact i still have 10 pewter scouts unpainted. Anyways, do the math on the above. Guess how angry I am... ZERO. I have almost 1500.00 usd by current prices. Ain't upset in the least. I KNEW IT WAS COMING. My only gripe is that they released 10th Ed rules for these units and index cards. That is the shitty part. But had they done this to close out 9th Ed by releasing a statement that these models were Legends bound then i think most people would have felt a lot better about it. But for me this isn't a loss anymore cause I've been shifting my Black Templars over to full Primaris since 9th began. Just me though.😮
But... Think of the value of all those hours spent putting together and painting those models, and now you get to do it all over again!!! 😆 Games Workshop delenda est.
When I play at the shop, I'm thinking of bringing the OPR rules and asking if people want to play 40k or OPR. I'd rather play the game that is more fun and with the release of 10th edition, OPR might be more fun right now. I didn't lose any of my mini's to legends, but the playstyle of my army changed a lot from 9th-10th edition and I preferred the 9th playstyle. I think large edition changes like this are generally bad for players. Balance is especially messed up right now compared to 9th. 3 month later edit - I've been playing OPR instead of 40k and really enjoying it. I love the "i go you go", free rules, superior and free army building app, customization, flexibility on models, and fast games. I've found that people with fully 3D printed armies and older models especially are really enjoying OPR. I'll keep buying a few GW models and mostly 3D prints. Only getting GW models when I really feel they are worth it, right now just a few new seraphon models.
So I feel this in every way and in my discord I always seem to be the salty guy so I try not to voice my opinion to much anymore but this video to me proves my point and I see that I am not the only one that feels that way
I'm still shocked they'd do the space marine fans like that, though i expected it in some form eventually. I was use to getting wrecked being an Ecclisarchal/Inquisitor type. Speaking of which, stuff I was interested in that got retired recently... all the Forgeworld inquisitor models. but then I felt more cheated by the sisters relaunch and i never got to play a game with my sisters. still have them all, don't want em, but they cost me unlike my fixation on the inquisition and ecclisarchy. The relaunch screwed me by shifting the focus to these mini-mech models and i didn't like the designs they went for, making me never want to update my sisters army from metal. Screw those. screw the oddities involving the exoricsts, and I'm still pissed about the rule changes that destroyed the repressor, which I went out of my way to pick up. I already gave up on playing GW games sometime ago, but it's scary when my TCG interests feel less wasted than this.
As a proud owner of 100 assault marines, 60 scouts, 4 dreads, 12 + bikes/attack bikes, every single land speeder in multiples, it hurts to see all of my favourite units nuked at once...
Amen to that. I am starting a Black Powder Napoleonic army right now. Much cheaper and the models are great. And the history of that period really satiates my hunger for lore. I also discovered The Silver Bayonet so I will probably never return.
Hey M. I decided to check what money I lost with the latest GW discontinuating thing they have done. And well, after I crossed the thousand mark I just stopped. To be fair. A fair amount of this is kak I inherited from my brother when he stopped. And does not include, encase someone tries that trick. Any of the codexs, rule books or expansions in my collection. This was just miniatures and it's just the last straw for me. I'm going to play 40K still myself. But any more minis I'm getting, paints of whatever. I'm doing it through 3rd Party groups. Otherwise. I'm looking for fresh pastures to sink my time into. Speaking of which. Can I recommend you get the Alpha Strike Boxset of BattleTech? It really is great value for money. And the stuff you get in it. So useful if you decide to sink more cash into it. And the game rules & Mechanics. So easy to learn and master as well. Anyways. Take care and I'll stop by whenever. KTF Legies. Forget Nothing!
I have lost £150+ in units- multiple cadian and catachan snipers gone due to special weapon squads going- you can use them in games but not in a high number. Knight commander pask is gone- so that’s £17 down the drain- could of just used a tank commander in the box. My crusaders are gone too. My lord commisar is unusabale in it’s OG role and my wyrdvanes (which I had 9 of) Creed, And Yarrick also gone. I bet the infantry squads of which we have so many models of will be gone soon. Gw needs to sort this out. Some of the models aren’t even In legends so completely unusable.
I wanted to start Warhammer 40k, but after buying the REDEMPTOR DREADNOUGHT, I couldn't justify the investment. Instead of a Iron Hands army I got the Waffen SS starter army for Bolt action and had a free box of infantrymen thrown in for free. I now have more than enough with 70 men, a Tiger, a StuG, and support teams for $145. So total would be around $185 if I had paid for the infantry. Bolt Action, Battletech, Flames of War, and Saga has provided me with far too much plastic to paint.
GW isn't the only one who does this, mtg and most collectable card games run in cycles to manage the number of interactions, malifaux, warmachine and infinity have all had some or all of their range removed. I think historicals are a bit of a different fish, obviously a ww2 infantryman isn't going to get invalidated, it's based on a historical event, scale creep is the only real killer of historical ranges. Not really justifying it cos its annoying but as soon as 8th was released it was clear that at some point first born would cease to exist.
Obviously, models get left behind as editions move on. We know this as guard. However, its absolutely wild that they could essentially be wiping out whole firstborn armies for some players in one update. Not to mention, people literally just paid for data cards for these models in the new edition. I have a old dark angels army with land speeder, bikes, assault troops that I was thinking of fleshing out to a 1k points force. No chance of that now!!
I said this going through 9th about their codexes, not going to buy anymore of their printed product that the purposefully screw up so they can sell the fixes to their screw ups back to the community a few months later, with new screw ups. I was excited for 10th ed Index because 8th ed Index was probably my favorite edition (playing since 3rd), my guard army has been unplayable as it was built since 8th codex (no veterans, no tanith with the exception of the super unit), no big loss though, they were an army built and painted out of love for the books and not my mains (but have built and painted them for about 20 years). Fallen? Nope, Fallen are just straight up gone, there are 30 veteran converted marines gone (210$), only Cypher left. All the Blackstone Fortress Models (core box, 1st & 2nd expansions, plus the box with the extra rogue trader & co), yeeted into Legends (about 400$). My primary army for over 2 decades has been Dark Angels. So, with this it yeets my Ravenwing army out the window at 3 full bike squads + attack bikes plus speeders (495$ current retail, call it 300$ because much of them were from the big da box). One full scout squad (70$). A full 10 man squad of company vets (70$), plus a command squad (35$), both my assault squads from my full battle company (240$), and my techmarine in full servor harness (was I think 35$ alone back in the day) and a handful of regular librarians (which were probably 20$ each so calle'm 80$ roughly). Now, lets' move onto all the OTHER Space Marine stuff that got Legends treatment, Land Raider Helios, Prometheus, & Excelsior (that's about 375$), the storm eagle (125$) and Imperial Marine (35$). I havent' even looked at what they screwed up for my Sisters, Ad Mech, Death Watch, Grey Knights and Knights (My Eldar & Harlies were always small so got the LEAST screwed out of everyone, the 5-10 man squads only thing ends up trimming a few unit members off each squad I have but that's about it). So... about 2 grand american NOT counting paper products like codexes and campaign books. Fuck GW, I'm working on convincing my group honestly to move to another game system that is model agnostic so that we can continue to use all our GW models for a game that doesn't piss on us and expect us to drink it up.
I can confirm that printing £100ish worth of GSC characters for £1 in resin (including an abominant proxy I made from a downsized centurion suit to fit the theme of my army better) felt very good
I get it ,I have BattleTech models I bought in the mid to late 80’s that I can still use today, I also have been playing Warhammer since 1995 and understand your frustration
I hate to break it to you but catalyst isn't any better, go read the 2023 champion circuit PDF - no proxies, iron wind or catalyst models only. Enjoy your mechs from the reagan administration.
@@warlok363 granted but you're obviously not a competitive or tournament player, when people say "nobody cares" what they mean is "I don't care" and I'm in the majority. All I was trying to point out was the catalyst isn't any better when it comes to this.
I am an Artillery Officer in the Marine Corps. I love artillery, I love the Marine Corps. I like putting my identity into my "army". I liked Space Marines because well I am a Marine. I put 3 Thunderfire Cannons in my army (I know no one used them but I loved them because it was the closest thing to a howitzer I could get for the Space Marines). I made a quazi artillery battery using tactical Marines and the Thunderfire cannon to resemble the units I have been with in my thus far 10 year Marine Corps career (a artillery battery). I also use the Scouts as my observers. So two of my favorite units are being schwacked from the codex. Im a little disappointed to say the least....
I lost 70% of my space marines army in two months, approximately 800€. I lost probably a hundred h. I'm going to send GW a bill. I lost 60 scouts (second hand), 2 FW dreds, 1 FW HQ, 20 marines, 5 land speeder's... After the first lose of the dreds and HQ i took it on the chin but now i just out of a army
This sort of anti consumer behaviour is why i stopped buying GW stuff a few years ago. I mostly buy third party or second hand, except for very rare occasions when i buy through my local indie store (because they're great and deserve all the support I can afford)
For myself, i am really undecided between "well... sad. *shrugs*" and "that is a really bad move". Have around 3500 points firstborn pre-primaris models. Got back into 40k with 9th edition, got an additional raptors-marine Army (Primaris + couts + land speeders), that I played over the last year and a newly bought iron hands pile of shame, primaris only. On the one hand, the old models and I have a long history from 3d to 7th edition and I liked them very much. On other hand, I had much fun and a nice hobbytime over the last year with almost Primaris only. I already experienced you peoples loss, because apart from Vanguard veterans and scouts my firstborn units were pretty bad (painted and ruleswise) anyway, so I did not use them. AND it seems that one part of old models will just get resculpts (very nice!), the other part will still be playable anywhere outside of tournaments (that I do not visit often). Undecided, really; but would suggest to wait for the Codex and judge than, if we know what changes, what stays and what goes...
Legends is not the same as "gone". You still own the models, you still have rules. All they did was say that thsse are no longer supported with tournament rules. But nothing is stopping you from playing in tournaments that allow Legends.
Mostly right. Legends also means they likely won't get any further support and may well be cut entirely with the next edition (or have to wait until the next edition for any rule updates).
Sure, it might be fine for casual play for a few months. But these models aren't going to get any sort of rules update. Which means that after the next big sweep of balance changes to the system, those units will at best be left behind being useless, and at worst might end up so left behind that you can't even run them in casual games.
@AndrewNarog yes, they will get few rules updates, but they will still be supported. Everyone has known about Legends for many, many, many years now. And we have known the shift to up-scaled/Primaris Marines was coming since they were introduced. ALL old kits are going away, some will have new kits that are close enough that old models can be used to represent them, but ithers will just be dropped. Scouts are one of the kits that I wouldn't be surprised if they got a brand new sculpt and come back in the new book in a new form, possibly with rules and equipment that makes the old models obsolete, possibly with rules that can use the old models reasonably well without issues.
@@Lord.Grimnir Quite right! Though, as I said, Legends just means an inevitable complete cut at some point. Still, as you say, you can still play with most of these models for the time being - all of them if you're not at a tournament. As for Scouts, we'll have to see. I recall their role was somewhat filled by the Phobos units. I'd happily be wrong and would love to see newly sculpted Scouts.
@AndrewNarog Black Templara got new sculpts for Neophytes so it isn't a big stretch to assume Scouts will still be a thing in the future. But also not impossible that Phobos replaces Scouts entirely too.
I'm right there with you. I made the decision to absolutely not purchase another GW model three years ago, and have been holding strong since. There are so many other games and companies out there that actually share in their customer's enthusiasm for their products. GW is only in it now solely to squeeze as much money out of people as possible. The days of the old GW are dead, replaced by 100% corporate greed. I have been into Corvus Belli's Infinity and loving it! Also shout-outs to Frostgrave, Gaslands, and One Page Rules.
Just want to clarify my position in the video, as a few people have misunderstood.
I have no issue with GW releasing new models, or with Primaris. I understand that not all kits can be kept around forever. I love the game of 40K and I look forward to many more years of playing it.
But quite simply put, as a consumer, I have lost my trust in GW. I just can't risk buying their products anymore.
You realize this is only for tournement play and thus is meaningless. People at home can play what they want.
BANZAAAAAI !!!!
Stop moaning Tim. This has happened since time began with GW. We all know the risks. You can still use them at home too.
the mistake you made / are making is thinking games workshop care they had your money and that is all they care about
the scale and suddenness of this change is pretty un-precendented. Its not comparable for example to something like rough riders going to legends in 8th. this is entire armies losing rules and not being suitable for proxy or anything.
GW could have helped themselves by honestly telling us at launch that this was the edition firstborn were being retired to legends... Classic GW mucked it up as always... 🤦
Not to even mention they were talking about it like it was positive. ‘Oh look they’re retiring, but don’t worry you can use X and Y and they still get Legends rules’ like legends isn’t the graveyard of datasheets. Also the fact they made index cards for all these and made people think these were all safe.
Who didnt see this coming 2 editions ago? Its about time they clean up the SM codex.
@@ryanbigler5408 Were we supposed to hold our breaths...?
@ryanbigler5408 absolutely. They should have announced that firstborn were going when they announced the edition though. Then there would have been very little backlash
Your asking GW to risk a drop in sales?
I have thousands of dollars of models that are no longer legal for organized play.
Getting flashbacks to when I built an awesome Renegades and Heretics army when they got super cool rules in 7th ed, and then they just deleted the whole army and didn't even create alternative/legends support for them. The fact that they still sell units that you can't play with at events is asinine.
My entire hand sculpted chaos space marine army (15 chosen, 5 terminators,, 2 exalted champions and a jump pack lord) aside from 100 cultists was invalidated last edition. This edition it was my scratch built storm eagle. I'm so fed up.
Are you looking to sell your renegades and heretics army?
It's hard to not think that's their whole plan really. To keep rotating models out to "force" you to buy the new ones.
@@wolfhunter98 I do think that's a bit of a stretch considering this is the first time in 30 years they have done it to such a scale, except to maybe squats. If that's their product cycle then I'm fine with it.
Im workin on a homebrew R&H rules-set. Local guys said it sounded fun so its an idea im playin with
We really need to urge TOs to allow good alternative models in any tournament that GW isn't directly sponsoring. The best thing we can do to get GW to change their ways is to demonstrate to them we don't need them in order to play Warhammer, just as the D&D crowd showed WotC/Hasbro this spring that they didn't need WotC to play D&D.
Yeah facts, GW won't change until they get told to get back in their box. Only real way to do that is to start permitting alternatives, proxies and 3D prints at non-GW affiliated tournaments, assuming they're of a certain quality ofc. If you give these corporate guys an inch, they'll take everything
@@alertedcoyote7892 3D prints and Sino-Russian copies are going to be looked at as being more viable. People aren't going to want to fuel GW directly and they will want to spend less money so as to not be hurt as bad when other changes occur in the future.
Careful what you wish for, the IP is so big they could probably lose the game.
The revenue of space marine 2 will generate massive profits, deal with amazon for live action likely to do the same. They could license this IP out for decades to come as its as big if not bigger than other Sci-fi universes.
If the game profit goes, the boardgame goes, it that goes so will a lot of FLGS....unless I missed all the people playing bolt action on twitch or competitively....
As an MTG player, i'm surprised that 3rd party models aren't generally used as non-gw tournaments. In the cEDH scene, proxies are more common than the real cards to keep price out of the format.
@ronin7078 the board game will survive GWs death. 9th age did very well without GW for ages, doing better than warhammer fantasy did in its final years, only leaking players to AOS and KOW, but it's still strong in Europe.
The same will happen with 40k if GW ever stops supporting it. People will keep playing it, possibly a fan edition, untill a sufficently better marketed similar game comes out.
But even then many will continue playing the fan edition of 40k.
Me: Gets back into the hobby after a 7 year absence when I hear about the new Guard.
Codex lasts less than 3 months.
Me (crying); It'S GoOd tO bE BaCk?!?!?!
GW just suck.
I'm just happy there are still folks in my area playing 9th. So I'm still getting some use out of it... But jesus christ it was stilla let down to get 3 months of support for it....
If you're just playing for fun, do yourself a favour and look into OPR. :)
I have never played a 40K game in my life. But i have friends who do. So i've spent hundreds of €uros on building an Imperial Guard army, but fallen to ChAoS so they are renegades. I was so stoked when they got a Codex.... i see now that it was a misstake investing in anything GW.
gave up on 10th before it even launched and bought a 4th edition rulebook and codex, never looked back. Aside from all the benefits like great balance, intuitive rules in one place and an easy points system that can incorporate any new models-you know GW can't cock it up with inteference.
The older I get the more I realise i'm in an abusive relationship with Games Workshop. You never know when they're going to bitchslap you next.
But they love me!
@@newtpondskipper 🤣🤣🤣
The problem is, trying to get a game of anything other than 40k is at best hit-or-miss (sometime impossible). My current project is building a multi-game fantasy/historical army. I should be able to play in 5 or 6 different game systems. I'm doing this so I can build and paint models I like, while still having a chance to game.
It's like GW wants people to go over to 3D printing
Hell, my local FLGS player armies are about 50% resin printed models by volume
Just getting into the hobby but thankfully I have a resin printer, I have already saved a enormous amount of money and haven't even finished my 1000 pt guard army
2:00 The moment I learned about Primaris when 8th was coming out, I knew this day was coming. So I took my Space Marine collection of 25 years, 50+ Terminators, 50+ Scouts, dozens of Tactical, Devastator, and Assault Squads, Sternguard, Vanguard, Rhinos, Razorbacks, Land Raiders, Land Speeders, a whole slew of Dreadnoughts (including the regular, Ironclad, Venerable, etc), a shit ton of Rogue Trader Space Marines, and so on, and sold it all.
Over the years I’d periodically feel bad about doing that and wondering if I jumped the gun but, I have to say, after the past few months, I’m feeling pretty good about that move. God only knows how hard a time I’d be having to sell, say, those 50+ Terminators now, with the new larger Terminators replacing them.
You do know you don't have to only play the latest 40K edition?
We're playing 2nd Edition at my club. It's almost as old as I am!
I play against a Dark Angel player with models that actually ARE older than I am.
Good on you! Personally, I can't even fathom parting with my models, with the countless hours spent building and painting them.
@@Edithae Most 40k players are idiots. That´s the only reason anyone cares about these news. Then he will regret not waiting for the "oldhammer 40k" wave to come along wanting to buy all those classic plastic models for a lot more money.
@@Edithae it's amazing the flexibility a club can have when the goal is a good time. I love 40k but, the longer I do this the more I sour on the competitive scene.
I like this but I think I would have kept like a squad of each and maybe one of each dreadnaught just so they can go up in value in like 30 years or so. Especially the rouge trader. 🤷♂️ maybe I am just a collector at heart
I started playing GW games in the ‘80s, and stopped late in the ‘90s.
I was there when the Fimir vanished, the Slann fell, and the Chaos Dwarves went extinct. I watched as the Squats, lock, stock, and two smoking barrels, fell victim to the void. I openly wept.
I was also there, at the End of Times, when solid formations gave way to individual movement, and suddenly my dozen assembled armies, whose combined values were in the realms of 100,000 points, were obliged to find new footing. I raged.
I was there, when the will of the Creator failed, and was corrupted by the almighty power of the DollarPound. I shouted into the void, to no avail.
My vistas were reduced. I decided, then and there, that I would forsake all others, and return to my first venture. My final bastion. An abandoned path, long forgotten by the Creator, whose followers had kept alive, and taken for themselves. The Bowl of Blood.
Here, I took my stand. I assembled every team. Every player, Star, or otherwise. And things were good, for a time.
Then, the Creator saw how grand this forgotten realm had become, no thanks to them, and took it back into the fold. Once again, I watched, as all I had put together was, once again, ripped asunder.
I swore on that day, that I would stop worshipping this false Idol. I denied them, that day, and have denied them ever since. No longer would they receive my adulation, or my tithes.
I was drifting, helpless, in the void, for a time. I dabbled with the War of Kings, among others, but found no solace.
In desperation, I took to a Flight of Fantasy, and devoted myself to their War in the Stars, but that, too, fell, to the Games of the Atomic Mass.
Then, I discovered the Rules of One Page, and I was saved.
I had let go of all my assembled forces, save for the Elves of the Woods, and the Kings of the Tomb, as I could not bear to part with them, for the blood, sweat, and tears I had put into assembling them. My forces saw new life thanks to OPR, and have been seen on many battlefields since.
I have even begun assembly of a new force, my Robot Legions. I have control over how many troops I need to fill out a unit. I always have exactly what I need. No more, no less. And the quality of said troops easily equals, or exceeds, the quality of those by the Creator.
The Rules of One Page have empowered me, as never before, and opened my eyes to new vistas. I have since become a devotee of the Four Against the Darkness, and those who are Five Parsecs from Home.
I have returned from the void, stronger than ever…
OPR is the savior! OPR is life! OPR needs Patreons :)
Tell me more about this mystery brother for I hear it for the first time
I feel you're pain, for I have walked the same griefstricken path.
@@aoofmg6684 If i remember correctly it was a group of colleagues who used to work on the inside for GW as Game Developers - Rules Writers. Their ideas of simplifying, streamlining and actually balancing the rules were constantly rejected by the higher ups so they eventually banded together, left GW and started their own thing. They have their own channel: OnePageRules. Their 40K-rules are called "Grimdark Future". It's constantly growing in popularity.
A brilliantly written summary
This is how I felt about the guard changes for 9th. Removal of conscripts, veterans and special weapon squads made me lose about 140 troopers. Still haven’t recovered from that.
As a Guard main, I feel you man. We've had those for ages. For no reason, they "had a kit" at least in the case of cons and vets.
Hadn't played in 5+ years, was like 9th codex is here! New kits! Oh wait were is half the unit picks? Annnd the codex is gone to 10th. -.-
I remember when troopers came 20 in a box. It wasn't the same point per dollar as marines were but it was much nicer. And when you could take whole platoons.
@@wolfhunter98 yeah! I was the same way. So excited for the 9th codex. I literally set aside money for it and held onto it for a year. Just to have my army tanked.
Literally just finished painting my very first army last night (firstborn flesh tearers because Gabriel Seth doesn't like primaris) just to find out it's been nuked. Didn't even get a full game in with it. So sad that GW cocked things up so badly. Not really sure what to do now, really good way to screw people out of the hobby.
Its the people who play and share this hobby that makes this hobby so great. Their will always be others. I've been playing necromunda with alternate models for a while now.
sure you did dude
I think the worst thing is that they are immediately being moved to legends. Could have waited at least an edition or 2 to move them to legends.
Wait the Index is invalidated? Not even waiting until the codex?
@@christopherjohnston6343 Fine in the index, only a few months till the book.
That's what the last two editions were...The writing for firstborn has been on the wall since primaris. Frankly nobody should have been surprised by this.
And yet those units like scout sniper squad is in the new codex just like the article said
you had 2 editions ..... when primaris was pushed for years we all knew it was coming
Warhammer Fantasy said...
HOLD MY BEER.
One thing I don't understand why the community puts the WYSIWYG rules on themselves, this wouldn't be an issue if 40k tournaments would be proxy friendly.
Because GW won't sponsor or endorse your tournament if you let people use 3D prints or 3rd party models.
@@WeDontTalkAboutJosh simply use GW Models to proxy
If proxy was allowed, people would just proxy the best armies and units.
They are proxy friendly? I've got a heavily converted GSC army thats never been a problem. I couldnt take it to a GW organised event because it's not 100% their parts, but all the other stores I've checked with have been fine.
Wysisyg is the stupidest made up rule that exists.
Honestly, this is why i started 3d printing. Got into the printer and all the accessories for less than a 1000 bucks cdn. Havent looked back since, i just printed out 3 basilisks over the last 2 days😂
you hate the game so much youd spend 1000 dollars to pretend to play it instead?
@@Fpsdood hes still playing it ?
@@Fpsdood I don't see how using things that look like the official GW miniatures is that different from just using the official GW miniatures.
Is it also pretending to play the game if you play orks and use bits and other kits to build custom trukks or battlewagons, as those aren't official GW kits?
It is not pretending, it is called having fun with friends. 11k and counting in savings in our gw group
@TheMarcosvolta Excellent! The Printer must go Brrr my lads, until GW lays broken!
The only thing I''ll say is you don't need to play the latest edition if your group of friends are happy to play an older version.
Also One Page Rules has you covered. They support all your models.
This really only effects you if you dropped for a bit with old things and came back or wanted to do tourmenents, but i cant see myself ever wanting to do a GW game tounement.
I pretty much did the "im done with them" several years ago, and have only recently yielde donly soley getting models so i can play the game edventually. Never going to touch their paints, brushes etc.
OPR 4 Lyfe!
I like the community. Everything directly controlled by GW I hate.
Community of voluntary slaves.
Agreed. This is just a fun mess around thing for me. I can’t even justify buying codexes over and over. It’s insane
I started playing 40K with Rogue Trader, back in the late 80's and worked for them in the mid-late 90's, so you can imagine how many cool models I saw come and go. The last edition I had was 5th but I gave up after seeing the new larger Space Marine models and for me, the writing was on the wall, I knew the old models would be replaced and many of them would end up being unusable in future editions, that and the constant edition change every 4 years. It just got too much, so I sold everything. I currently collect and play Bolt Action, Flames of War/Team Yankee, Star Wars Legion, Armada + X-Wing V1. The big advantage of historical gaming, is that they can't 'remove' things from the game so easily. For example, a Tiger tank is a Tiger tank, no matter whether you have an old model or a new model, as long as it's a Tiger and in the right scale, it doesn't matter - you can't change actual history but you can change everything in a fictional setting and that's what GW do, all the time and I don't like it. The lesson is not to be a GW fanboy and buy into their products in a big way, limit what you get and perhaps just enjoy smaller games, so you don't throw too much money away everytime something changes. I'm contemplating getting a small Imp Guard army and playing a mix of 5th Ed, OPR and Combat Patrol or small current 40k battles. The aim being to relatively basic stuff like a few squads, some heavy weapons and a Leman Russ or 2. Hopefully that won;t be so painful in the long run.
Exactly where I’m at, I don’t play 40k hardly ever, and the reason is the constant rules changes. I’d be happy to stick with an old edition that my friends and I are happy with and never darken GWs doors again. Which would be a shame as I’m a sucker for a Bugmans burger and chips.
Welcome to the club!
I moved on to greener pastures and picked up battletech and bolt action. Both games combined cost less than a single GW faction and rules don't change every 3 months. Also no model was ever taken out of the game. Whatever you bought you can use for the rest of your life.
Bolt Action!
It's clickbait he's not done with gw. We've had loads of video like this over the years. But yes, bolt action is the fucking tits and battletech is a great game. But they don't bring in the views.
I'll be honest, this sort of thing is why I opted to build my new 40k army with the idea that if GW pulled any shenanigans or the new edition turned out trash, I'd just go play them in a model-agnostic game like OPR's Grimdark Future. I wasn't going to let GW trash my hobby investment again. Last time they did something like this to me I switched game companies for over a decade. This time I just came prepared with plan B, because I knew GW was like this and has a long history of it.
Yup, I love one page rules.
This is why I was apprehensive about the tyranid refresh and the other ones people have been clamouring for.
If its not removing models it's reinventing the wheel to sell you another newer unit/model for the same roll.
Just looking at the nid range we've got gaunts being made more expensive to shoehorn neurogaunts in and biovores being pushed aside for bargaunts.
It's absolutely reprehensible that they did this a bit into the edition, after they'd already taken a chunk of models out, leaving people with the impression that these were safe.
At this point the only right thing to do is retire the 'legends' system and keep making datasheets, even for models that are out of print.
I'd also split Space Marines and Primaris into two different armies, I'm honestly sick of this inferior copy product, I want the real deal.
Especially with going to digital rules partially. There is no reason they can’t have rules for these.
@@jo_ken There is. They aren't making money because the models are out of print. That's literally the only reason.
@@k7eric That’s fair. Pretty much just greed that if these models still worked there would be no reason to buy newest X model.
What I'd do is unify Primaris and Firstborn models into the same units, like they did with the terminators and sternguard veterans. No more Intercessors or Tactical Marines, now there's only Tactical Marines that can be tall or short. Same with Assault Marines and bikes.
@@matiasyannuzzi9655 Yep, it's a similar proposal that's been going around, just drop primaris entirely and make it Mk X armour, scale up the other mk's for visual interest and options and you've saved the line.
Important to note that the sternguard are all mk x and one of them has a redesigned vader vent mk 7 helmet (smaller features, doesn't look quite right to me).
As upset as you are, I'm happy you're willing to vote with your money. My friends and I are always going on about how it will take a huge punch in the wallet to make GW become less unreasonable. I just hope eventually there's enough market pressure to make GW change its tune because I haven't found an actually true alternative to 40k and I hate it. I've even started working on my own custom ruleset since 10th edition's listbuilding is just so boring now.
My gaming group more often is playing with third-party rules like onepage since there is no limit to what models you use. It's a bit stripped down from 40k, but it's still fun to play with your bud's and you can even make armies using models from entirely different manufacturers.It's worth a shot if you haven't tried it yet and play outside of competitive
One page rules. For 40k
Conquest the last argument of kings for warhammer old world
3d printing going buuuurrrrrrr just that much harder.. gw is tightening its grip as more and more is being forced out of its palm.
Grimdark Future by OnePageRules has been growing in my local area in recent weeks. Our FLGS is actually hosting a slow grow league for it. It was surprisingly easy to get rolling once someone was willing to take the reins. I wish you luck in your search.
Firefight from mantic games is actually a great alternativ. Good rules, nice Models and now prices. I think its 80 for a startet Army. Also rules are free. Just need the Army book which contains all races
Im very aggravated particularly about the jumppack assault marines. I play a BA successor and those are absolutely a critical unit
Weve been telling you this was coming for years, nobody believed it.
I literally just got 10 of them because I wanted to play Ravenguard and use Kayvaan Shrike, and they were one of the only units he could attach to... Now? I either have to run him as a lone operative, which I don't care for, OR! Buy the new shit they are about to come out with. Those are my options.
@@seriphmichael run them as vanguard veterans with jump packs, he can attach to those. Just find yourself some extra plasma and inferior pistols since they don't cost any points
Well, you deserved it you cheese mongrel.
Yep I lost hundreds as a BA main.
I had started collecting firstborn a couple months ago to eventually make a firstborn army, I sure do wish GW would’ve given us a heads up or something
This is how they are. GW SUCKS
Sorry you are having this experience. This is GW.
*Gasp* But if they'd done that, you wouldn't have bought them. How would they get your money, then?
Just started making a firstborn Death wing army have a squad of 1st born tactical in the way. I’m playing how I want to play! You hear me GW fuck ya
My first, and last complete, and painted army was squats. I've been trying to get back into the spirit of the game since 1998. High prices, frequent rules changes, and now seeing massive chunks of the game discarded really makes me wonder why anyone bothers anymore.
It's perfectly acceptable to use todays prices. I remember the lower prices in the 90S, I also remember the lower salaries and I remembr the cost of living with tears in my eyes
I remember my mother having a mortgage of $400 a month. There is jealousy.
Have you seen GWs prices? I think original blood bowl for Playstation? Like 15 years later stayed the same price lol. Their prices don't go down, only up. It's 100% fair to use today's prices lol
I remember when it was $20 for 30 Guardsmen RIP
Ive stopped spending money with GW, 3d printing isnt my favorite thing in the world but its been a necessity for me to keep playing and modeling my 40k armies, there are so many creators out there that in my opinion make better looking models than GW and deserve to be supported
tbh I think 3d printing is a very valid and fine way to enjoy warhammer now ...I am currently printing out 3000 points of heresy iron hands .. they look great so far .. unless you are planning on attending a GW event / location / sponsored event then there is no issue with using non GW stuff as long as it looks like its meant to and on right basing .
Wargames atlantic has a lovely totaly-not-guardsmen line in their "death fields". Generally 24 models for $35 usd. I just finished my totaly-not-kriegsmen last week
I second this, WGA for the win !!
Totally-not-Catachans approves of this message.
love those kits and whats great is that thay also have some of the best historical mintures out there. I know I have used a mix of there Italian, German, and French resistance kits for bolt action and thay look so much better then warlords kits (my one gripe with Warlord fyi)
God I love my totally-not-krieg rough riders
that company is amazing.
So I just started getting into battletech and I'm blown away by the wide variety & support they show for God knows how many mechs. Even when they advance the time line they still make sure there's rules for the older mechs
I was close to buying some scout snipers because they are so clutch right now. I am glad I passed though. Seeing units in the index made me feel like they were safe for the next three years (until 11ed).
Yea! Was really excited about my scout snipers that were sitting in a box for quite a while now.
Feel my pain, stripped my snipers 10+ years ago, decided to paint them for the new edition. I'm around 70% into finishing them when I read that snipers are gone... Oh well, they are still valid in kill team at least
Honestly if you are buying models due to how strong they are in an index that was officially stated will be outdated in a few months, with points values adjusted quarterly from now on... you have only yourself to blame. GW prides themselves primarily as a miniatures company and not a game company, and you should be aware of the consequences. They will do anything to the game as long as it keeps you buying more models. What better way than changing rules around constantly when that causes people to buy more models...
Absolutely true. I got back into 40k at the end of 8th and got so tired of “primaris-ing” of Warhammer that i sold my guard army. GW is gradually “primaris-ing” most armies until you can’t play them in multiple styles and they have to be taken in one meta style in order to be competitive. Consequently these models sell at higher rates and the non “primaris-ed” models often sell at lower rates, thus gradually changing the whole faction from classic unit rosters into rosters which are largely derived from new warhammer lore which is often less grimdark, intricate and interesting. The setting is suffering as a result and I fear that GW is setting the table for the eventual culmination of the setting into some age of sigmar esque apocalyptic clash.
Bring on the Mordian Glory/Discourse Miniatures collaboration video discussing GW’s business strategy and lack of transparency with customers. Do it! 🙂
I really don't want Mordian to do that. Discourse minis is a joke and hated by large portions of the community
@@christopherjohnston6343 I fully appreciate people see her as divisive however Discourse Minis sheds light on anti-consumer practices, preditory sales techniques and monopolistic business strategies. All of which GW demonstrate on a daily basis sadly.
Her video's are very well researched as she has a legal background. She is also an strong advocate for other games in the wargaming hobby (particually from smaller creators) and wants to show that GW/Warhammer isn't the only option out there.
Despite what people think she isn't actually anti-Warhammer (yes, her titles/thumbnails are clickbait-y but she explains why she HAS to do that). She loves Warhammer, and plays a lot, but thinks GW could do a lot better in the way it treats it's customers (she also talks about this in relation to Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro).
I realise this sounds like I'm a total discourse simp but I beleive a lot of people have a warped opinion of her and her channel and I'm sure many of her biggest detractors haven't even watched her video's properly/at all!
Discourse is 100% pro-consumer and anti-exploitative big business - that's a good thing!
@@christopherjohnston6343 at this point GW is hated by a lot of the community.
@@cronykil74 yeah but that appears to me her only thing now. Maybe I don't see the videos covering other stuff but I'm not going to follow constantly negative content.
Part of why I followed Mordian for like the last 6 years is that he's Just pretty upbeat. Maybe less so lately but idk
10th really screwed me too. I ran a wonderfully gun Terminus Est list with 100 Poxwalkers in 9th. Now, I can only take 60 max. I’m hoping when the DG codex releases in 2025, I’ll get some amended rules that make my space zombie hoard playable again.
I'd guess this will be what detachments will do.
@@jesterprince4949 one can only hope. We’ll have to wait and see what the SM and Nid codexes do when they come out to get an idea.
My group decide yesterday to use the firstborn for Badab War games. There is a great fan supplement based on the HH 2.0 rules.
Does it allow the traditional marine units like 5 man ractical, 5 man assault, and 5 man devastator?
@@tempestvenator9809yes it does
Games workshop seem to turning peoples armies from gaming pieces to display pieces really well.
My Rhino and tactical space marines that I bought in February when I started 40K are probably next on the chopping block.
100% support you in this; I buy Lord of the Rings models from GW because they have had the same ruleset for over 20 years (slight updates and FAQs, but some of the models from 2002 are still winning tournaments with the same rules unchanged) and I know my investment is safe. But this is just wildly ridiculous. It's a massive change, and seemingly out of nowhere
Is this where we as a community take a step back and make a WH9.5, kinda like we did with D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder. If we want a fun balanced game, we need to stop letting the group with a financial incentive to make us buy certain models write the rules we all play by.
Cant agree more vince Ventura and all the other youtubes colab and start playing 9.5 and just refuse to move over to 10th XD
We call it ed. 10.98 Psychic Awakening at my house, where GW isn’t allowed to invalidate so much as a models load out or make any nerfs we or the lore disagree with.
I get it. Honestly if the said around the very beginning of tenth that firstborn were going to legends so people would be aware not to buy them outside of just wanting the model, there wouldn’t have been as much flak as they are right now. But then again I’m a new player who isn’t as invested into firstborn both emotionally and financially so I could absolutely be wrong.
Warhammer fans are too (idk what the word is) manipulated into thinking this is okay, to just make models they’ve supported since the founding of their company and game all of a sudden just unplayable. No other company could do 2 hard restarts without losing their entire player base like warhammer has. It’s absolutely shameful.
I get understand that GW has a lot of minis to balance for their game and some units will be on the chopping block to keep the game balanced, but the way they’re trying admit it to us is just stupid.
@@insufficientdata0247 there shouldn’t be any minies on the chopping block full stop, yall really been forced into the mindset that this is okay?
@sarahshaw7315 no this isn’t a mindset that we’re being forced into I agree that they shouldn’t get rid of rules for minis outright but to ask them to keep and update rules for things they no longer sell and ensure that they’re balanced to all 1000+ units is not reasonable. That’s why in 9th it was so difficult to balance units like sternguard or devestators because some “that guy” gave them all the broken weapons that were allow in previous edition.
Happened to me when they started to axe support for the Bretonnians, Wood Elves and Beastmen from fantasy.
My friend is pissed about his extensive Ravenwing, probably Deathwing too as they'll need upscaling.
Don't forget my Dogs of War.
Do they need up scaling or is he letting that fuck with him?
I'm not even mad that they're getting rid of the Firstborn. We all knew it was coming.
But I am super pissed that they have straight up lied about it for a while now. And the utter nonsense gaslighting article about "just use them as other stuff!" Which tried to convince us that it wasn't a big deal.
Horrendous way of dealing with it.
It would be 1000% better if they just were honest and said they were going to reduce the line. Just be freaking honest about it!!!
Why aren't you mad??? The primaris range is a massive downgrade. The style is totally different. And the new rules suck. We don't even get special and heavy weapons in a primaris 'tactical' squad. Why???
3d printing makes more and more sense these days. Like a mini and print it for a $1, and if GW burns what it represents it didnt cost you a load of cash to pick up
All aboard the Bolt action train :)
Not really a player more a painter. But you sold me on a the King Tiger !
Didnt realize it but seems i have a Panther + 40 Heer.
So I am tempted to get to playing a war game for the first time in 7 years!!
Many thanks from another Pissed 40k fan.
Bolt Action!
The game mechanics are quicker to learn, and the dice pool activation just keeps you hooked into the game. I know it’s not a game for the historical rivet counters but boy is it fun over a beer or three with your mates. There’s also zero risk of getting alpha striked on turn one and straining said friendship to the limits 😅😊
I've been done with 40k for a while. The constant meta chasing - the frequent books that cause the power of armies to spike, and squating old minis just turned me off. I'm committed to Heresy at this point because A) I like the older minis and B) I can print what I need.
here here.. good on you Glory.. it's been far to long for more big youtubers like yourself to say to GW, "No more"
Unless they're planning on retroactively fit Primaris into Horus Heresy, not one of this kits will be out for long without a proper, firstborn replacement. At least I hope so...
Horus heresy is basically the “historical” 40K and most players in Horus heresy kinda look down on anything past mark 6.
Its so strange considering they set up the great rift that would have fully justified having the space marines split between Firstborn and Primaris.
But then they wouldn't "force" you to go buy all the new upcoming models! Look we're about to launch all these new marine models for 10th! But we gotta kill off the old models before they launch so people are over being salty about it. Buy more! Mooore!
They made me feel like this was the sendoff edition. Was not expecting to have things just for the indexes…
Good for you man - it's not cool when something like this happens
Only reason i got any of the HH stuff was to do first born Marine army. Can't use half the vehicles now. Reason gw gives is there wouldn't be many around at this point in lore.
Imma have to argue on the "no company does this except geedubs" I had a *massive* Soviet Flames of War army that was pretty much wiped out when that company decided to redesign the game from the ground up. I kinna just gave it away because I needed space and hated looking at it for *years* after.
i feel this. literally my entire dark angels successors was already unplayable and now several units i know i want to run, like my vindicator laser destroyer, are kicked to legends. i want a leviathan. and a spartan tank. all kicked to legends.
so not only do i have entirely replace the dark angels force to make it playable. i have more reason to sculpt my own tyranids.
The burn for me started in 8th edition. My Space Wolves had models invalidated when the 8th edition codex came out and while I was trying to continue with my Dark Angels and bought a bunch of Mechanicus at the time, I had lost all motivation for Warhammer 40k. During 9th I had a look at the rules for the Mechanicus and the army load-out was invalidated so I didn't bother getting back in. Because of some friends I got into Age of Sigmar which was in 3rd edition at the time and started making a lizardmen army, armybook came out, there goes half of my cavalry based lizardmen army..... I looked at 40k 10th edition rules and both my Space Wolves and Dark Angels are unusable mostly because I don't have any primaris HQ models for my Dark Angels and I am not even getting started on my Space Wolves. I am looking at getting back in to 40k, but I am seriously planning an army that I can use for both 7th (The last good edition of 40k in my opinion) and 10th edition. I don't want to do space marines at all any more, I just got burned too much with them.
I've become fed up with them and now looking at other systems (OPR) as well as other mini manufacturers and there are countless who make very decent models for use with 40k, Necromunda, Fantasy or any system really. Its quite liberating mixing and matching figures from different ranges to create a truly unique looking army/squad/gang/kill team.
Yeah I'm probably moving over to OPR
Decisions like this made me very glad i went to the dark side of 3D printing. They don't wanna respect our money? Why should I respect their IP then. This is a two way street, and GW need to wake the hell up and realise that there are really good alternatives out there now. Hell, 3D prints look better than most GW sculpts nowadays, for a fraction of the price. Its insane.
Add into that new and simpler sci fi systems like One Page Rules coming into their own of late to scratch that Warhammer itch along with entirely different systems altogether like Bolt Action or BattleTech and... Why do we need GW again?
Utmost sympathies to everyone who lost money with this absurd, no warning retirement wave. Genuinely, I really am sorry about that. It sucks. Always know that your firstborn are welcome at any table I'm playing at!
I had a mess of Death Korps Engineers in my collection. They went from heroes to zeroes in one edition, and they're still up for sale on the FW website! Then I look at my Grenadiers, and my Leman Russ Annihilators, and my Medusas (plural!)... I feel your pain, MG.
i know how you feel. Left when i saw that my newly finished only missing a tank Marine force was about to become obslete when Primaris rolled out with their 2 wounds..
Had to leave for another game as i could not bring myself to invest more to them except the odd special miniature to paint. Dropzone commander is what i turned to as a cheaper alterantive.
Sad to see more of the old kits disappearing. As a guard guy, I have to admit.... I shed a tear when the shift to the new sculpts occurred.
PS - if anyone out there has some of the old guard plastics, let me know 😂
I have a bunch I'll be dropping on Ebay this Saturday with magnetized Leman Russ's!
I have an entire army still in boxes I’m looking to sell as I’m pretty much out of the hobby. They’re all the older sculpts.
@@MalefaxTheBlack Unassembled? Primarily looking for shock troops. Anyway of establishing Comms and I can chat to you about it?
@@JCDenton3 Thank you! I'll keep my eyes peeled. What's your eBay name brother?
@@jk_actual Unassembled and still on the sprues. All the infantry are Cadians, Ogryns, etc. Only thing missing is the plastic wrap from the boxes.
Do you have a Discord? I can contact you there if you do.
100% with you. If it weren't enough that GW released a new edition within 7 months of two Codices for the previous edition (one of which was just 3 months prior), they moratorium a bunch of iconic Forge World models, and now do the same to several SPACE MARINE staple units? Bait and Switch is not a good marketing strategy.
Incidentally, my group has yet to play a 10th edition game, and we're not planning to any time soon.
Its sad because 10th is really fun. 9th was bloated to all heck and back so I played OPR but the rules aren't quite as granular so it kinda misses the feeling of 40k.
I’m an OG have not got any Games workshop product in a decade. It’s just insane how they get away with robbery!
Mordian, I feel the same way about a 8500 point 5th edition blood angels army that I played and collected for seven years. Same with my daemonhunters army that I updated for ninth edition and which now is unplayable. For blood angels I am collecting a bit to play Horus heresy, so they are salvageable. I suppose my point is you could play older editions of 40K. I have branched into Battletech which is also very fun, does not retire units, and has a lower price point. Have fun and thanks for the channel.
I guess the real issue is almost the popularity of space marines working against them. Necron warriors got a new model, but they didn’t give the new ones without the Lego pieces on them better stats so you would throw out the old ones, that would just alienate the smaller xenos market. A lot of the new stuff would have worked a lot better as new model updates to old stuff. But then they wouldn’t have the ability to make the game worse and less fun to play for long time players, so they would shill out.
The day before GW announced putting the Horus Heresy tanks and dreads into the legends bin... I bought (given their new plastic upgrade + GW promoting them as 40K compatible) 4 Deimos Pattern Rhinos, 2 Contemptor Dreadnoughts, 1 Land Raider Proteus, 1 Deimos Pattern Predator, 1 Sicaran Venator Tank Hunter and a Typhon Heavy Siege Tank. All to be split between my Death Guard and Thousand Sons. Luckily, I bought them because I like their aesthetic (HH models fits perfectly with CSM) and the rhinos, predator and hopefully the LR would still pass, but... although we still get people ringing that "you can still play them outside tournaments" bell... putting anything into legends WILL eventually kill it. Every purchase you make from GW, you have to ask yourself "will I still see value in this purchase when it inevitably goes legendary?"... if the answer is yes, go for it. If it's no, then maybe take a stand with Mordian as GW won't change while the cash still flows. I had my eye on grabbing some old school land speeders given their new 10th ED rules... not... any... more. EDIT - Forgot to mention my resin Leviathan with 2 storm cannons (bought separately) that I got from Forge World (££) a few years back for my Blood Angels. So glad I didn't have the funds to add more HH models to my BA!
Good on you Mordian! If GW's gonna be abusive with their business practices, vote with your pocketbook. Everyone should be doing that. They won't change unless they see their bottom line get hurt.
Which sadly not enough people will do, or enough newer players not knowing will buy enough to support them.
I have said many times that they should have released a codex supplement called "Astartes Nihilus" which are chapters caught on the wrong side of the Great Rift and forced to use older wargear, older geneseed and such. They can take 25% of their points from the modern Space Marines codex, but otherwise most of their gear is firstborn stuff.
I fully understand how you feel about this. we witnessed this back with Warhammer Fantasy being ended and pushed into Age of Sigma. This has been happening even before that. We can always go back editions or find other ways like on One Page Rules. It will not change.
You’re right, it’s exactly how I felt when fantasy got the axe. I can’t help but think if they had kept it, just adding sigmarines as a new faction.
Ah, my fellow Fantasy lovers. We share the pain. AoS can go to hell.
This is what makes me INCREDIBLY dubious about the return of "The Old World". I mean I'll be loading up on Dwarves that I necer had the chance to collect, but I'm using a different game system (I'm a sucker for GW Dwarf aesthetics)
@ 9:48 "Why would I support a company that does not support me?" Great slogan.
I'm salty that they changed the weapons on Thunderwolf Calvary from all their unique melees to heirloom weapons which are rubbish their only advantage is their speed and OC value now :(
I knew this was coming from day 1. Makes me glad i moved progressively away from official. Luckily, i dont play competitive so i have more free reign. Both in models and in rule sets
As for screwed over by changes... well, if i adhere to their ways... my Death guard are shelved until further notice. 7000pts and im not doing the math on it for the sake of my blood pressure. My orks and tyranids... a lot of units got fucked up badly. One example is my 10 model mega nobz. I now have to field them as a multiple of 3... so i have 4 very expensive paper weights (roughly $35 CAD a pc) or i field them under strength and screw myself over on the table. I have about 10000-12000 pts of orks and mulitple units are now fucked over like this. All my main armies need reworking that leaves models on the shelf that i paid for and laboured over to give them the best paintjob i could and now they gather dust. Unless i go elsewhere and use rules made by others. I actually havent played any real games of tenth and have been instead playing onepage rules with friends because i can still use pretty much all my stuff unimpeded by GW stupidity
I mean Privateer Press nuked the vast majority of their SKU's moving from 3E to 4E on Warmachine. But also... this isn't the first time GW has blown up a product line. It is the first time Marines have been hit this bad though
PP utterly broke my heart. Fuck 'em to bankrupcy. 10th anniversary Orsus Zoktavir and his dogs are the most gorgeous paperweights I own.
I play Blood Angels. I lost 40% of my army yesterday…that army is one I built SPECIFICALLY for 10th edition so far. That does not include the fact I can’t play any of my 25 Sanguinary Guard I can’t play because they are ridiculous in points cost. 10th edition has been rough as hell so far.
Just imagine my 3000 pt knights of blood jump assault army that's almost a decade old....
Hell yeah fellow KoB enjoyer!
I will respect your opinion. Been playing since 96. Ditched my Black Templar firstborn army right as 9th began. I knew in time that firstborn would be phased out when Primaris were introduced back in 8th. The writing was on the wall. I'm am honestly just surprised this hasn't happened earlier.
As i type this, I have 42 Bikes, 20 Scout bikes, 6 Attack Bikes, 4 Land Speeders, 2 Typhoons and 1 Tempest. All the Land Speeders and Attack Bikes are new in box. These are all from 3rd Edition when I started my Ravenwood Army. I never bothered to finish it.
My Black Templars had 3 Land Speeders and 1 Typhoon.
I won't even regale you with the fact i still have 10 pewter scouts unpainted.
Anyways, do the math on the above.
Guess how angry I am...
ZERO.
I have almost 1500.00 usd by current prices.
Ain't upset in the least.
I KNEW IT WAS COMING.
My only gripe is that they released 10th Ed rules for these units and index cards. That is the shitty part.
But had they done this to close out 9th Ed by releasing a statement that these models were Legends bound then i think most people would have felt a lot better about it.
But for me this isn't a loss anymore cause I've been shifting my Black Templars over to full Primaris since 9th began.
Just me though.😮
But... Think of the value of all those hours spent putting together and painting those models, and now you get to do it all over again!!! 😆
Games Workshop delenda est.
When I play at the shop, I'm thinking of bringing the OPR rules and asking if people want to play 40k or OPR. I'd rather play the game that is more fun and with the release of 10th edition, OPR might be more fun right now.
I didn't lose any of my mini's to legends, but the playstyle of my army changed a lot from 9th-10th edition and I preferred the 9th playstyle. I think large edition changes like this are generally bad for players. Balance is especially messed up right now compared to 9th.
3 month later edit - I've been playing OPR instead of 40k and really enjoying it. I love the "i go you go", free rules, superior and free army building app, customization, flexibility on models, and fast games. I've found that people with fully 3D printed armies and older models especially are really enjoying OPR.
I'll keep buying a few GW models and mostly 3D prints. Only getting GW models when I really feel they are worth it, right now just a few new seraphon models.
So I feel this in every way and in my discord I always seem to be the salty guy so I try not to voice my opinion to much anymore but this video to me proves my point and I see that I am not the only one that feels that way
I'm still shocked they'd do the space marine fans like that, though i expected it in some form eventually. I was use to getting wrecked being an Ecclisarchal/Inquisitor type.
Speaking of which, stuff I was interested in that got retired recently... all the Forgeworld inquisitor models. but then I felt more cheated by the sisters relaunch and i never got to play a game with my sisters. still have them all, don't want em, but they cost me unlike my fixation on the inquisition and ecclisarchy.
The relaunch screwed me by shifting the focus to these mini-mech models and i didn't like the designs they went for, making me never want to update my sisters army from metal. Screw those. screw the oddities involving the exoricsts, and I'm still pissed about the rule changes that destroyed the repressor, which I went out of my way to pick up. I already gave up on playing GW games sometime ago, but it's scary when my TCG interests feel less wasted than this.
I have been ripped on so often for voicing the same opinion. The entire "Legends" system is a complete freaking joke.
As a proud owner of 100 assault marines, 60 scouts, 4 dreads, 12 + bikes/attack bikes, every single land speeder in multiples, it hurts to see all of my favourite units nuked at once...
Amen to that. I am starting a Black Powder Napoleonic army right now. Much cheaper and the models are great.
And the history of that period really satiates my hunger for lore.
I also discovered The Silver Bayonet so I will probably never return.
Hey M. I decided to check what money I lost with the latest GW discontinuating thing they have done. And well, after I crossed the thousand mark I just stopped. To be fair. A fair amount of this is kak I inherited from my brother when he stopped. And does not include, encase someone tries that trick. Any of the codexs, rule books or expansions in my collection. This was just miniatures and it's just the last straw for me.
I'm going to play 40K still myself. But any more minis I'm getting, paints of whatever. I'm doing it through 3rd Party groups.
Otherwise. I'm looking for fresh pastures to sink my time into.
Speaking of which. Can I recommend you get the Alpha Strike Boxset of BattleTech? It really is great value for money. And the stuff you get in it. So useful if you decide to sink more cash into it.
And the game rules & Mechanics. So easy to learn and master as well.
Anyways. Take care and I'll stop by whenever.
KTF Legies. Forget Nothing!
Time to give OPR some prime time !
I have lost £150+ in units- multiple cadian and catachan snipers gone due to special weapon squads going- you can use them in games but not in a high number. Knight commander pask is gone- so that’s £17 down the drain- could of just used a tank commander in the box. My crusaders are gone too. My lord commisar is unusabale in it’s OG role and my wyrdvanes (which I had 9 of) Creed, And Yarrick also gone. I bet the infantry squads of which we have so many models of will be gone soon. Gw needs to sort this out. Some of the models aren’t even In legends so completely unusable.
I strongly encourage you to take a look at Wargames Atlantic for infantry options. They've just done some nice space-cavalry.
I cant see any space cavalry on their website?
I wanted to start Warhammer 40k, but after buying the REDEMPTOR DREADNOUGHT, I couldn't justify the investment. Instead of a Iron Hands army I got the Waffen SS starter army for Bolt action and had a free box of infantrymen thrown in for free. I now have more than enough with 70 men, a Tiger, a StuG, and support teams for $145. So total would be around $185 if I had paid for the infantry. Bolt Action, Battletech, Flames of War, and Saga has provided me with far too much plastic to paint.
GW isn't the only one who does this, mtg and most collectable card games run in cycles to manage the number of interactions, malifaux, warmachine and infinity have all had some or all of their range removed. I think historicals are a bit of a different fish, obviously a ww2 infantryman isn't going to get invalidated, it's based on a historical event, scale creep is the only real killer of historical ranges.
Not really justifying it cos its annoying but as soon as 8th was released it was clear that at some point first born would cease to exist.
Obviously, models get left behind as editions move on. We know this as guard.
However, its absolutely wild that they could essentially be wiping out whole firstborn armies for some players in one update. Not to mention, people literally just paid for data cards for these models in the new edition. I have a old dark angels army with land speeder, bikes, assault troops that I was thinking of fleshing out to a 1k points force. No chance of that now!!
Damn... poor firstborns... they are veterans of war, deserving to still fight on the front
I said this going through 9th about their codexes, not going to buy anymore of their printed product that the purposefully screw up so they can sell the fixes to their screw ups back to the community a few months later, with new screw ups. I was excited for 10th ed Index because 8th ed Index was probably my favorite edition (playing since 3rd), my guard army has been unplayable as it was built since 8th codex (no veterans, no tanith with the exception of the super unit), no big loss though, they were an army built and painted out of love for the books and not my mains (but have built and painted them for about 20 years). Fallen? Nope, Fallen are just straight up gone, there are 30 veteran converted marines gone (210$), only Cypher left. All the Blackstone Fortress Models (core box, 1st & 2nd expansions, plus the box with the extra rogue trader & co), yeeted into Legends (about 400$). My primary army for over 2 decades has been Dark Angels. So, with this it yeets my Ravenwing army out the window at 3 full bike squads + attack bikes plus speeders (495$ current retail, call it 300$ because much of them were from the big da box). One full scout squad (70$). A full 10 man squad of company vets (70$), plus a command squad (35$), both my assault squads from my full battle company (240$), and my techmarine in full servor harness (was I think 35$ alone back in the day) and a handful of regular librarians (which were probably 20$ each so calle'm 80$ roughly). Now, lets' move onto all the OTHER Space Marine stuff that got Legends treatment, Land Raider Helios, Prometheus, & Excelsior (that's about 375$), the storm eagle (125$) and Imperial Marine (35$). I havent' even looked at what they screwed up for my Sisters, Ad Mech, Death Watch, Grey Knights and Knights (My Eldar & Harlies were always small so got the LEAST screwed out of everyone, the 5-10 man squads only thing ends up trimming a few unit members off each squad I have but that's about it). So... about 2 grand american NOT counting paper products like codexes and campaign books. Fuck GW, I'm working on convincing my group honestly to move to another game system that is model agnostic so that we can continue to use all our GW models for a game that doesn't piss on us and expect us to drink it up.
Those 3D resin printers are looking real nice now.
I can confirm that printing £100ish worth of GSC characters for £1 in resin (including an abominant proxy I made from a downsized centurion suit to fit the theme of my army better) felt very good
I get it ,I have BattleTech models I bought in the mid to late 80’s that I can still use today, I also have been playing Warhammer since 1995 and understand your frustration
Meanwhile in Battletech/Alpha Strike you can proxy, not WYSIWIG, and you can use that 30 year old Ral Partha model if you want to.
I hate to break it to you but catalyst isn't any better, go read the 2023 champion circuit PDF - no proxies, iron wind or catalyst models only. Enjoy your mechs from the reagan administration.
@@madcapmiguel5071 1) you can proxy as far as variants go
2) nobody gives a flying fawk about "competitive" Battletech. Which is as it should be.
@@warlok363 then why are you talking about WYSIWYG? You can play 40K with legos
@@madcapmiguel5071 true but the graph of 40k games played that care about WYSIWYG vs same for BT it's not even close and don't pretend it is.
@@warlok363 granted but you're obviously not a competitive or tournament player, when people say "nobody cares" what they mean is "I don't care" and I'm in the majority. All I was trying to point out was the catalyst isn't any better when it comes to this.
I am an Artillery Officer in the Marine Corps. I love artillery, I love the Marine Corps. I like putting my identity into my "army". I liked Space Marines because well I am a Marine. I put 3 Thunderfire Cannons in my army (I know no one used them but I loved them because it was the closest thing to a howitzer I could get for the Space Marines). I made a quazi artillery battery using tactical Marines and the Thunderfire cannon to resemble the units I have been with in my thus far 10 year Marine Corps career (a artillery battery). I also use the Scouts as my observers. So two of my favorite units are being schwacked from the codex. Im a little disappointed to say the least....
Scouts should be fine as they are all but confirmed to get new models
For a real worst case scenario you should add this up using the New Zealand prices!
To quote the Unreal announcer: Holy Shit!!
I lost 70% of my space marines army in two months, approximately 800€. I lost probably a hundred h. I'm going to send GW a bill. I lost 60 scouts (second hand), 2 FW dreds, 1 FW HQ, 20 marines, 5 land speeder's... After the first lose of the dreds and HQ i took it on the chin but now i just out of a army
This sort of anti consumer behaviour is why i stopped buying GW stuff a few years ago. I mostly buy third party or second hand, except for very rare occasions when i buy through my local indie store (because they're great and deserve all the support I can afford)
For myself, i am really undecided between "well... sad. *shrugs*" and "that is a really bad move".
Have around 3500 points firstborn pre-primaris models. Got back into 40k with 9th edition, got an additional raptors-marine Army (Primaris + couts + land speeders), that I played over the last year and a newly bought iron hands pile of shame, primaris only.
On the one hand, the old models and I have a long history from 3d to 7th edition and I liked them very much. On other hand, I had much fun and a nice hobbytime over the last year with almost Primaris only. I already experienced you peoples loss, because apart from Vanguard veterans and scouts my firstborn units were pretty bad (painted and ruleswise) anyway, so I did not use them. AND it seems that one part of old models will just get resculpts (very nice!), the other part will still be playable anywhere outside of tournaments (that I do not visit often). Undecided, really; but would suggest to wait for the Codex and judge than, if we know what changes, what stays and what goes...
Legends is not the same as "gone". You still own the models, you still have rules. All they did was say that thsse are no longer supported with tournament rules. But nothing is stopping you from playing in tournaments that allow Legends.
Mostly right. Legends also means they likely won't get any further support and may well be cut entirely with the next edition (or have to wait until the next edition for any rule updates).
Sure, it might be fine for casual play for a few months. But these models aren't going to get any sort of rules update. Which means that after the next big sweep of balance changes to the system, those units will at best be left behind being useless, and at worst might end up so left behind that you can't even run them in casual games.
@AndrewNarog yes, they will get few rules updates, but they will still be supported. Everyone has known about Legends for many, many, many years now. And we have known the shift to up-scaled/Primaris Marines was coming since they were introduced.
ALL old kits are going away, some will have new kits that are close enough that old models can be used to represent them, but ithers will just be dropped.
Scouts are one of the kits that I wouldn't be surprised if they got a brand new sculpt and come back in the new book in a new form, possibly with rules and equipment that makes the old models obsolete, possibly with rules that can use the old models reasonably well without issues.
@@Lord.Grimnir Quite right! Though, as I said, Legends just means an inevitable complete cut at some point. Still, as you say, you can still play with most of these models for the time being - all of them if you're not at a tournament.
As for Scouts, we'll have to see. I recall their role was somewhat filled by the Phobos units. I'd happily be wrong and would love to see newly sculpted Scouts.
@AndrewNarog Black Templara got new sculpts for Neophytes so it isn't a big stretch to assume Scouts will still be a thing in the future. But also not impossible that Phobos replaces Scouts entirely too.
I'm right there with you. I made the decision to absolutely not purchase another GW model three years ago, and have been holding strong since. There are so many other games and companies out there that actually share in their customer's enthusiasm for their products. GW is only in it now solely to squeeze as much money out of people as possible. The days of the old GW are dead, replaced by 100% corporate greed. I have been into Corvus Belli's Infinity and loving it! Also shout-outs to Frostgrave, Gaslands, and One Page Rules.