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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Peter Daly from Keysight takes us on a tour of their Melbourne calibration and repair lab.
Both automated and manual test benches, high voltage PSU test system, phase noise measurement system, and rohs repair.
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So good to see equipment that was developed back 30 years ago; still going strong, that I could identify from my working life
Awesome of them to take the time to give you a tour like that.
Thank you for the unique opportunity to visit these facilities and hear firsthand about the calibration work they do there.
It was like listening to a foreign language. One day I will understand this. Till then I will continue to be taught by Dave.
Dave made me believe that I can understand australian english flavour
An excellent series of videos, kudos to Keysight for doing this.
Almost 500k! Really enjoyed the last two videos. Very interesting to see what gear is used in a Cal-lab.
These "walkthrough" videos are great! Please, keep them coming! :-))
So what interests me is not precisely how long ago these were recorded, but mainly, *why* did it take so long? Was the footage recently recovered?
Great tour Dave!
These videos are like a school trip for technically minded adults :)
Brilliant stuff. Thanks to Dave and Peter is a great host (and fountain on knowledge) as well!
Love this series of videos! Thanks Dave!
I like the "PLEASE CLEAN UP YOUR MESS AFTER USING" stickers
As a Keysight lab worker I can say that Australian lab is great. In our lab in Russia we have 4 work stations and usually we calibrate 400-500 devices per month( high efficiency) , mostly signal generators and analyzers. Special Keysight software makes calibration much more simple and faster.
Cool to see a video done on my job!
If somebody would ask my employer for a lab tour with a video camera, the answer would be "hysterical laughter".
Yes, I'm guessing you're also working in an R&D environment that involves product development (products being ensconced by an NDA). The setting in this video isn't too stringent in my opinion, which could partly be the reason why Agilent agreed to the recording.
I was just wondering what qualifications would be required to work in a lab like this? Just chuck an ESD mattress in the corner and I'd never leave :)
thanks to all involved for this wee tour - my switch has been officially flicked!
Ted Van Matje electronic engineering at very least
I'm just a dumb electronics hobbyist but a few intuitive points....
You need to be able to pass a military background check and hold a high level clearance to be able to work on equipment from the major customers of the lab.
You probably need to have your engineering license and national certification. That usually means you need an engineering degree, a certain amount of certifiable job experience, and pass a certification exam accepted by the state. If your looking into schooling options, you should check out the state engineering license certification requirements as the first step before some recruiter/guidance counselor trys to sell you something that will waste your time.
Finally, you need to be able to compete on an emotional level to interview well and come out ahead of all of the other people that want a similar dream job.
I don't know how many people actually work at this lab but it doesn't look like there are more than 20-30 people at most.
Best of luck,
-Jake
The replies you've received are mostly incorrect. You don't need an engineering degree in this field and engineers are often looked over because they don't stay in the position for long periods of time because they become bored with the work. Every once in awhile you'll get to sit down and code a procedure from scratch or do an uncertainty budget, but normally in a lab like this you're just changing test setups when the computer yells at you. Most people get in to the job with a military background as most militaries train calibration technicians. There are certificates you can get, but they're typically meaningless compared to ability. I've had opportunities to go take the certification, but it's not going to change my pay rate or job options. Bench time and skill sets are what make you valuable. A calibration technician could be someone who only knows how to calibrate calipers with a set of gage blocks to someone who can manually do interferometry or code complex test procedures for RF equipment. You do not usually need a clearance unless you're working for a military contractor and are working in a classified area or working on equipment with storage that is in a classified area which is pretty rare outside of the military. Keysight probably has a few people with a clearance for specific cases on equipment only they can calibrate (some of the 50-100GHz stuff with storage no one has the equipment to do but them) but they're not going to make everyone have one.
Degenerate Human
....and that's why I lead with the "dumb hobbyist" bit.
Thanks for the info. Maybe goofing around with this whole electronics thing while waiting on surgeries/recovery isn't such a waste of time ;)
Upcycle Electronics you're definitely not. There's a large need for people who know electronics even if you don't have an EE. There are a lot of other people needed in the process and maybe you could even talk an employer in to paying for an EE b.s.
Wow..., thanks Dave, great stuff!! Peter really knows his sh!t!!
Dave should calibrate those Sandwiches at 0:46 Sec.
Wonder if they are building a new test area for precisely tapping scope input connectors to verify mechanical vibrations to random signal deflections on face of display?
10:00 I see Tektronix TestMate equipment.
Specifically a TG501, AM503, and PG506 plugged into a TM503. Why some are there, I'm not sure. I know the AM503 is for DC/AC current probes up to 100MHz while the TG and PG are time and pulse generators. I only used those 2 to cal my 2467B. Their displays only give out a deflection error percentage.
2:55 They say that signal gen. at the upper left is one of the fastest during the day. They'd call it the "tora-tora" in the lab after the fastest hellicopter at the time.
I love this type of stuff. They are the best rulers that humans can fabricate.
There is a metaphysical aspect to it.
Gotta love the Deskjet 640c in the HV lab :P
Statically discharged sandwiches
ROFL Made my day :D
I paused the video at that point and made a sandwich. Cheese, tomato and egg. Grilled. Yummy.
A bunch of equipment "not in use"? I'd love to have that. ;)
Excellent couple of videos Dave. I'd love to see them actually calibrate something, a view over the shoulder sort of thing..something easy mind you, do they still cal Avo meters? :)
Depends on the model.
Lol that guy never lets Dave speak too much without interrupting
Paulo Constantino he probably knows why 😂😂😂
Those sneaky Rohde & Schwarz devices at 15:30 behind that HP 89441A. Are these customer devices or devices Keysight is acutally using to do stuff with?
I found tektronix stuff at 10:00 lol
13:25 - ahh, the never used lead-free station. Look at those pristine mats!
So, how do they calibrate the equipment used to do the calibration? And how is that calibration calibrated?
I worked in USAF Calibration lab system for 9 years PMEL
I'm seeing lots of stuff in racks without any screws in the front panel. Are they secured some other way or just sitting on the units (and their rack ears) below?
19:22 Towards the end, is this video the prequel to this? EEVblog #423
Is it possible to see a factory for the manufacture of devices and how to be sure to test the device, calibration and measurement ...
Dave, can you do a video (apologies if you already have) on ESD and how it can damage sensitive equipment. I think most people believe it’s a bit of a myth. I enjoy these videos...
I bet the term "TARDIS" for the mobile lab has to have people confused who worked for the former life sciences division since there is an RNA sequencing procedure called TARDIS (Targeted RNA Directional Sequencing).
Don't they have a superconducting voltage standard there?
What's up with all the floppy drives on beige equipment that hasn't turned piss yellow?
Not much UV there, put the thing where the sun will shine on it and it will get that color :)
8-Bit guy took it out to the yard
Either it doesn't contain bromine or they were replaced sometime after the unit was originally built
Calibration is cheaper than buying into a new generation of equipment every few years, so people keep sending in ancient equipment. If it still meets specifications, then it may as well be as good as the day it was bought. Plus, certain systems (looking at you, financial and defence sectors) were designed to work with older models and are too vital to replace entirely.
I did duct cleaning in a calibration facility. Had to be very careful with everything.
Imagine working your arse off to become an ee at keysight and then being referred to as someone's lovely assistant.
auuch he just notice Dave aint following protocols and having his hand down in the pockets like he agrred to 0:53. but who can blame Dave, like a kid in a candyshop.
Sandwiches are deployed for static charge dissipation?
why can't you have the roll of solder inside the solder station and feed through the umbilical cable to the soldering head driven via a feed control system controlled by a foot pedal means you have both hands free to do what is required.
At 15:34 I thought Peter said something about phase noise something they use in the TARDIS. :) What a lot of equipment they have that isn't being used. I wonder how often, or if, they get rid of some of that gear.
You usually keep spares of equipment incase it gets busy, equipment goes down or primary standards need to go out for calibration. You don't want your lab to be down because a rack is out.
Maybe they calibrate the TARDIS?
16:33 Calibration due: 3-Jul-2014 :^)
Great tour:-)
I am wondering how do they calibrate the calibrators?
I mean if you take i.e. a power supply of the highest precision, how do they know that if it shows 10 volt, that it is 10 volt? Do they count electrons or how?
Like all metrological standards, they are calibrated using even more precise (and fragile) reference standards, which in turn are calibrated using yet more precise standards, until finally you go all the way up the chain to primary standards in national laboratories that calculate SI units (volt, second, meter, etc.) based on physical constants (or in the case of the kilogram, compared to a metal cylinder in France).
For calibrating a calibrator's voltage, the output is run through a low resistance standard with a known high precision (i.e. the resistance is known to 0.000... places) and various arcane and secret processes are used to measure the accuracy and stability of the voltage. This makes the calibrator wiring and output terminals part of the calibration, and therefore their effect on the output is taken into account.
I
DAMN... now that's equipment.
What voltage is used in "high voltage" section?
Hey Dave! Did you sit on this video for a while or did the Keysight folks just not bother to stop referring to the company as Agilent?
For a minute I thought we were in Mr Carlson's Lab.
Why has HP sold the measuring equipment department ?
Sandwiches? Food in the lab? Corner-cutting detected!
Any kind of food and beverages are banned inside our lab.
Is that a (gasp) Tektronix scopemobile at 7:34 ;)
These don't look like primary calibration standards. Looks mostly like repair and tests using secondary standards.
They're not going to show some of the primary standards because they have dirty words on them like fluke :p
Degenerate Human ... If I had listened, the first words spoken we're about the standards lab that they weren't going into.
Design and build a USB charger please dave. maybe SMD all the way ?
They want to see how Dave would do it.
When the one for my tablet failed, I ended up using a just hooking a USB port to the 5V rail of an extra 500 watt ATX power supply I had laying around, and disconnecting the fan since with just a load on the 5V rail, the heatsinks barely got warm. I also used it to power a Bluetooth audio receiver, and compared to cellphone chargers which generated a buzzing noise over the receiver, the power supply did not cause any noise to be generated that I could hear. Only downside was that an ATX power supply is bulky compared to a standard USB charger.
No we want a good one. Every single one from China is garbage...
Just get an IKEA one, they're cheap and bigclive did a teardown and found it was very well designed: ruclips.net/video/uRe9w5PKmsE/видео.html
why they have old calibration equipments instead new state of the art ones? does old equipment have any advantage for calibration purposes or just brand new equipments are too expensive?
Traceability. It's not easy to replace an equipment that you know how it was working for like 10 years? It's different.
dodaroxer yeah and also there is probably no reason to upgrade. These instruments have way higher resolution than the ones they calibrate.
you get the feeling most of the work gets done onsite, the workshop seemed way too quite.....
It's Keysight!! Why in the world would you still be using the 8902MS Rack? Your standards lab is outdated. It's kind of funny too. My RF rack is all new E4448A ( MMR, Phase Noise, etc) N5532A=550, E8257, ETC... And you guys are calibrating with 30+ year out dated standards. I knew back in 2004 I had an issue with a generator passing SSB and I sent it to Agilent 5 different times. Each time you guys passed it. I would run it again and it would fail the same offsets. I finally spoke to someone at your cal lab and come to find out you were using the ancient 3048MS system. I was using your new at the time E5504B system. Sad when your customers have better equipment that your own lab,
11:44 “...who is our repair manager...” repeatably triggers my Hey Siri, it thinks I say “hey siri, pay management”. Anyone else have this?
11:42
Who calibrates their equipment?
They do. It's standards all the way up.
I spot a 5342A at 4.20
2:26 HP-8566/8568 in background
2:37 HP-8116, 3458A,53131a,3335a, 8901a,8903b
3:01: HP-3326A on table
3:52: HP-8340A on bottom right
6:50 finally a stack thats bigger than mine
7:30 HP 8510C?
It's going to be an 8902A because it's going to have all the fun options installed for doing RF cals. Just having the modulation bits is useless for what we use it for. Most of the time in an automated setup it's going to be running tuned RF and RF power measurements
Does anyone know any good areas or places that i would be able to find like second hand/unused electronics and parts. Like dumpters of electronics stores ect. More specifcally places in Australia. Doesnt have to be an exact place but just in general.
Ebay is always a good option. Dave made a video on how to find equipment on ebay at a good price here ruclips.net/video/lZfbo-2sd1A/видео.html.
thanks mate
The floor is ESD ...
1:26 damn, now I'm hungry
15:34 The TARDIS?
That HP test gear was built to last
did anyone saw some military equipment , that would be interesting.....
Sadly the only equipment defence sends is the same stuff everyone else uses. The secret-squirrel stuff gets calibrated onsite by millitary technicians.
Food in a lab?!?!
Yeah I was surprised to see those sandwiches too!!
JBC & Metcal :D
mmmmm forbidden lab sandwich!!! :P
I have problem with understanding what he is talking about...
Interesting
Extremely intelligent bloke who is an expert in his trade but the ESD controls in this lab are appalling and it seems that they understand little about it. He requested Dave not to touch anything because it's an EPA but that is pointless in this case. The purpose of an EPA is that everything must be kept at the same potential, whether you touch something or not. No foot test was carried out and it looks like he is not wearing ESD compliant clothes. There is cardboard all over the place which can easily carry high charge, it should not be allowed in an EPA. Grounded floor or not, they might as well not bother given the controls they have in place.
What's Error 11?
No measurable signal, I believe. It's because nobody was using it at the time.
Help me to apply as Calibration Tech n
Hmmmm. ESD compliant sandwiches.
Agilent? Faux pas!
ha hp9000 workstations ;)
iec 17025 :)
Error 13.
Error 11.
I work in ADSB UAE MUSSAFA
ERROR 13
I had to turn it off. STOP INTERRUPTING YOUR GUEST!
16:40 Seeing Windows XP machines with Ethernet cables plugged in makes me cringe.
Noone gives a shit about a virus on a scope
Every PC in that building is most likely on an isolated VLAN that never sees the internet. As long as the PCs are isolated from ever facing the internet there is no issue running old operating systems, even OSs that have security issues.
I get the concern with XP (see Zach's response to why that's probably not an issue), but what's up with ethernet?
Just don't go on naughty sites and you'll be allright
Microsoft was the worst thing to happen to computing ever
12:55 What an arrogant guy: „We had a customer who managed to put 1600 W into a 8753ES in front of us. Because the person setting it up actually didn’t know what he was doing. We stood back with the hands in the pockets to each other ‚this isn’t right‘, but, ah. Well they tried to claim warranty.“
DISGUSTING. Somebody does something wrong, others know it & don’t say a word. Even worse: Ruining an precious device. - Unbelievable. I don’t need this kind of Manufacturer support. Good to know what not to buy.
„He didn’t know what he was doing“, you cited.
wtf then? Stop him. Educate him. He didn’t know, you said. What’s the technical pendant to civil courage?
The way you talk it seems to me you prefer to keep the knowledge for yourself.
hermste This is the type of story that people tell for conversation purposes. It probably didn’t happen like that, but it’s better told in that way. Also, ‘to stand around with your hands in your pockets’ can either mean that you chose not to say anything about what was going on, or that you had no idea that something bad was happening. It’s a bit of an Australian colloquialism that’s not very well defined.
Yeah that stood out as being really mean.. maybe it's just Australian humour
Thanks, Ian. Didn't know that second meaning - makes sense.
Still... the smile on his face and the way saying that doesn't look to me as if he didn't enjoy this. 😞
I don't think they were actually watching the guy do it. It's probably a customer that sent in equipment and they're telling the story poorly. I've seen quite a few network analyzers that got fed power to the wrong hole or with no attenuation (usually from engineers who know what they're doing not test techs) but I've never seen it happen in person. I doubt they did our have anything in their lab that can push 1600 watts of RF in their lab. I've never been in a cal lab that can. Maybe a special setup for a specialized lab that does nothing but high power attenuators or antenna testing in a chamber
Obviously the type of humor in this field differentiates vastly depending on the country. I'm totally used to this and I never believe such stories 😂
ок
Why does this video look like it's from the 60s.... The entire office just looks so out of date
The Keysight videos are getting tiresome.
You don't have to watch them you know...
Hey, psst, you can skip them and come back later, this isn't television.
Unsubscribing from the Keysight channel.