Can't understand why they wouldn't add ethernet while they were updating the CPU board - even if they wanted to keep all the old 68k code, they could have added an extra mcu to handle it.
Went over budget on the new hardware design maybe, or couldn't tie in another CPU to handle it without compromising the existing 68k code, or didn't want to introduce any new code, or maybe it's scheduled to arrive in the future......who knows! However, would loved to have been a fly on the wall when they had their meetings about it all........
I would assume that they couldn't justify the NRE costs. If you add ethernet, you've got to do a load of extra EMC work. You need to re-tool the chassis production for the extra hole. It seems trivial, but it all adds up on a low-volume product like this. A few little tweaks can get perilously close to the cost of a full redesign. Or maybe they're just couldn't be bothered.
Priority design goal was, to make a perfect / seamless copy of the old boards with small changes only to replace all terminated parts and make it ROHS compliant. Apart from that, any other updates / modifications / improvements were forbidden, because it was mandatory to not change the firmware. Any additional function would have caused a complete redesign of the software. And who knows, whether the source code and development environment was still available after > 25 years?
Same. Amazing how a single guy can get me interested in metrology for years, even when nothing I do relate to it in no way shape or form. I still want to drive around with that anker powerbank and compare ppms with friends (:
As rare as the 3458A device is, I wonder how and where the tiny, tiny gloves are sourced? Perhaps they are shipped as accessories with the equipment for when the back-up battery needs to be replaced.
I did some additional math on your noise values. Something that is often important in my line of work is the trade-off between speed and noise/accuracy. Hence a lower NPLC is often preferred (if it does not introduce extra errors/offsets) because you can then later in software perform box-car filtering, or other fancy filter algorithms (excluding 10% and 90% percentile outliers etc.) depending on the situation. I averaged every 100 values together for the 1 NPLC points, every 10 values for the 10 NPLC points, and comparing to the raw 100 NPLC data: All of these then have very similar RMS and peak-peak noise, however the offset is of course the same as in your data, i.e. best for 100 NPLC. It is impressive that even 1 NPLC raw data can later be filtered/averaged in software for about the same overall noise as 100 NPLC raw data. This gives a lot of flexibility to the user!
At work I have a couple of folders in my test radios that contain analogue and digital channels respectively. The problem is that there is only so much room for a folder / channel alias, so I have to get "creative" with the names, as I frequently have to take these sets to site, and demo for a client. ANA for the win.
I have family living just 1km away from the PTB. The low ppm’s are palpable in the air when you bike past. Also nearby is the national agricultural research centre, where they have cows with holes in them. The collaboration potential between these two institutes is infinite.
Those are called cannulated cows. They are used primarily for feed research. The first cannulation was performed all the way back in the 1920s from what I read.
This reminds me of the feeling of being 12 and sitting down with a graphing calculator for the first time, looking through all the settings. Confusion and awe
why do these high end lab bench multimeter, calibrators all still use these VFD like displays, is there a specific reason to this, always wondered about this?
one thing could also be that they may last longer when left on 24/-365 in test labs, vs LCD's where the backlight often dies after some amount of time. another thing Is a lot of these devices have old ancesters or olderversions, so using a known good design is often prefered to limit the needed part catalog.
@@Sw3d15h_F1s4 i dont think so, modern lcd/oled displays have a refresh rate of way over 120hz, plus these things have powerful fpga's in them so processing shouldn't be an issue, ig it might have to do something with such interfaces being industry standard but then that doesn't explain why they have used lcd screen in their newer bench power supplies, this is indeed intriguing
LOL you got me with that "xd" zoom at 25:26. I recommend you getting some old hybrid monostables "WTF001" with date code "XD" to put the icing on top of the cake! (and yes, they exist and are sold)
The DCV T.C. arises from both the LTZ reference and the U180 circuit. In my 3458A, both parts each contribute about half (0.2 and 0.25ppm/K) of the overall T.C., in the same direction. You may distinguish both by measuring CAL? 72 over different inner temperatures (do ACAL at different extreme TEMP? values and directly write down this '72 gain parameter). KS still did not correct the other design bug in the LTZ1000A circuit, i.e. the 200kOhm resistor is still equipped, which should only be used for the non-A version. Therefore, I suspect that your residual 0.5ppm/K mostly comes from the reference board. Other possibility is, that on your older 3458A, both T.C.s mostly cancel out. A last hint: get a proper basement room, which might serve as a passive A/C, i.e. stable R.T. at +/- 1°C over the whole year. Under such unstable temperature conditions, your equipment is like Anna Kournikova: Looks pretty nice, but does not win a price. (Temperature) Stability is everything.
My first 11 years out of college I worked on Automated Test Equipment and every machine my division shipped had a 3458A inside that we used for auto calibration. I worked on the automated calibration of the machines and managed the driver for the 3458A. You know pretty much all the secrets of the machine and the auto calibration after a 1C change for sure was part of my routine. One thing that we used was current measurements and I remember that we had a problem with measurement noise coming from the GPIB interface that only affected current measurements. We found a company that sold a GPIB isolator and we had to install that between the 3458A and the Sun workstation that was the computer in our testers. I had probably touched a hundred 3458A meters while I worked there and everyone was amazing.
"Immune to plastic discoloration" Ask Dell about that one... Can we see some information about the processing on the Solartron? I have a (lower-end) Solartron meter with the programming options, and it's insane what it could do for 1977.
I love your videos. You have a beautiful grasp of Englisch and your phrasing and jokes are worth every penny! You, sir, are...not A diamond in the rough, but THE diamond in the rough. Please continue being yourself, you are very much appreciated. The spreadsheet on the wall was a nice touch and I liked the camerawork. I love to see all the rear connectors and labeling. Good job.
Former Keithley engineer here. While we certainly respected the 3458, I often wondered how many difficulties HP/Agilent/Keysight had to keep making the 3458 for so long. I had to work on maintaining the Keithley 2002, and let's just say there were a lot of parts that had gone obsolete in the 2002's lifetime, and some parts we had to get creative trying to replace them.
3 decades ago I was in APEX Surplus in Sun Valley and a friend was buying used Fluke differential volt meters to rebuild many for a military place. The original older serial number ones had a slightly radioactive neon bulb in the chopper circuit. A stock new bulb worked but did not last as long. The doped neon bulb that was slightly radio active had a lower firing voltage. I think the replacement Fluke bulbs then were non radioactive.
Always a pleasure to see your lovely videos, awesome ppm stickers. Guess the 3458a is so good it can just be called 'the meter'. Worth the patreon support for awesome videos like this. Thanks
I'm pleased to say I have one of these pieces of precision test gear on my bench right now. It has been there for a few years, powered up 24/7. It seems nice and stable, always reliable. However, it does have a white case, not one of the trendy black enclosures. No, not a 3458A, an Auriol radio locked clock / thermometer! Oh man, imagine if you could get 3458As from the middle of Lidl!
34 MINUTES? oh god yes, what an amazing early birthday gift. I love everything you do, even though I have no idea what you are saying half the time, i'm just fascinated.
About a month ago I had the lucky and fascinating opportunity to visit the electrical standards labs at another national metrology institute in Europe. Of course, they also use the Agilent/Keysight 3458A in several places. I also saw GPIB everywhere, now I know why. But Ethernet and SCPI would certainly be adequate features in the 21st century.
Great video Marco, I noticed on my HP34401A that the mains voltage varies the amount of power dissipated within the instrument than the internal temperature, so even if the ambient temperate is stable the varying mains volage will still change the internal temperature. As you are trying to eliminate all sources of PPM leakage an easy simple solution to further stabilise your test setup is to run your equipment from a stable AC voltage source which these days can be as simple as a 48V battery inverter from your new PV array. The added advantage is being fully backed up from any mains failure further locking those PPMs in.
As just a hobbyist glad to know my secondhand old HP is way more accurate and overkill for a guy who just builds simple audio amplifiers lol 😂 Thanks for your videos for guiding me on my path to purchasing old reliable equipment but it takes up a lot of bench top and shelf workspace compared to the new stuff.
A few years ago I bought (for work) an audio analyser for 2k instead of the 12k unit that budget was allocated for because I could not fit the massive box of the expensive one on the bench😀
@@andrewwhite1793 i’m planning to do the same thing AUDIO analyzer is on my wish list bucket list Of course I really don’t need it but I like tools I like learning things and I like tweaking things
You might be the person to ask. I remember using a bench top DVM in class some time before 1977. It had the form factor similar to the Keithley 2700, but the bottom half was a plug-in compartment that allowed it to become different devices... Such as a DVM, Frequency counter, etc.. I am not even sure of the brand name.. The main body was a metal case where the top half was nothing except a display and power supply. The bottom half was a slide in compartment with a connector in the back. This is where the plug-in modules slide in like a drawer until it presses into the connector at the back. If I remember correctly, the display was a standard RED 7 segment LED display. I know it is nothing compared to the meter in this video, but I think it would be nice to find out what it was and what it was capable of...
"It’s the wild colour scheme that freaks me out," said Zaphod, ... "Every time you try and operate these weird black controls that are labelled in black on a black background, a little black light lights up in black to let you know you’ve done it." Zaphod Beeblebrox, The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe
I live in Loveland colorado and am just tickled pink whenever you mention it. I have even talked to some of the retired engineers that used to work at the hp plant.
ok so i just have to say that im no electronics wizzard but damn dude you make these videos so much more enjoyable , ive been subbed for a few months now and every time a new video Drop i get excited , good Job and keep up the quality content
GPIB is the intended method for driving a 3458A. You can actually only get the maximum number of digits of resolution from the remote interface - the front-panel display always drops a couple.
Even if my old and trusty HP 3478A serves me very well with it's 6.5/7.5 Digits the 3458A is just "WOW"!!! :-D Nice bit of test gear. Even if it from time to time would remind me of the sentence: "Measure with micrometer caliper, mark down with a piece of chalk and in the end chop off with an axe" ;-)
Yes, I've been looking for a climatized server rack for a while, it would be great! It'd be a bit tricky to get good temperature uniformity in such a tight space, but I am sure it can be arranged
@@reps Have you read "Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" by Wayne R. Moore? The Internet Archive has a copy. Part 2 section 4 describes their temperature control: 20°C from floor to ceiling, held to within 1/90°C. In the 1960s. Not easy or cheap to achieve though.
@@reps there are foam insulated flight case, racks which could be good for the purpose and keep your installation portable. The foam is intended for shock proofing but also provides some insulation value.
Oh, it would actually be pretty easy to build a light-duty cleanroom. Mostly just getting the raised floor tiles and setting up air circulation to the ceiling with filtration somewhere in the air chaise/ducting.
Awesome video as always! 👍 Im currious about your data logging software, what kind of timeseries database do you use? Sth along the lines of prometheus/influx/clickhouse? I would love to know :)
0:48 The White face 3458A chasing my ppm's has the Keysight upper Left "display-bezel" where the display is. Keysight red snake logo too. :) The unit is made in America with the A in the serial number. So maybe the display bezel only got replaced and not the entire front panel? A new old stock white entire front bezel is 500 bucks by somebody in China on ebay and it says Agilent.
Where the heck did you get the tiny latex glove? I have a pair of tiny hands, and now I see that they need gloves! Interesting and funny as usual. Thanks!
EXTREMELY disappointed to see the thin sponge style of dust filter on the rear - was that the original filter provided? Those fall apart quickly and leave the intake bare. I find the cup-style wire mesh filter to be the most effective, and easiest to clean.
Ahhhh, Fluke 8508A reference bench multimeter, my daily user bench DMM as a repair tech at Fluke UK, fixing 8588A reference bench DMMs. This is where all the PPMs get installed. :D
What did you use for recording and plotting all of these traces on the Pi? Would really like to have something similar for a smart garden project with the Pi being accessible on a web interface.
While you dream of having a girlfriend, someone has two. While you are dreaming of an HP3458A, at least a broken one, someone has two, and one of them is a brand-new in a badass black skin straight from the Keysight. Life is fair and balanced :)
While the REST of the world (with a few notable exceptions) continue to struggle with a WunHungLo 3.5 digit DMM, we have MarcoReps with not one, but TWO 3458 DMMs along with a decent proportion of the equipment that would feel quite at home in a high end cal lab. DROOOOOOL!
3458A's do love company and tend to multiply, while wallet paperwork minimify at same time. On serious note - "guaranteed accuracy" rubs my ear wrong way :).. Wrong position of 5700A with exhaust blowing right next to 742A and 3458A posts...
I am aware that it is not necessary. People working with that thing on an everyday basis will know the options. But on the other hand, would it be such a hassle to implement a graphical user interface? I bet even professionals miss options, they would have seen on a GUI, but they don't find it if there are just some short abbreviations of it shown when scrolling through lists. Or would it harm the accuracy to have a real screen close by?
It would interfere with parts commonality. Keysight makes a lot of money maintaining old instruments that labs are clinging onto like grim death. Having new parts available as drop-in replacements for old instruments is invaluable.
Can't understand why they wouldn't add ethernet while they were updating the CPU board - even if they wanted to keep all the old 68k code, they could have added an extra mcu to handle it.
Might be because the ethernet interface is too noisy.
Went over budget on the new hardware design maybe, or couldn't tie in another CPU to handle it without compromising the existing 68k code, or didn't want to introduce any new code, or maybe it's scheduled to arrive in the future......who knows!
However, would loved to have been a fly on the wall when they had their meetings about it all........
@@andrewwhite1793 Professional tier scopes have ethernet ports, what makes it different here? I recall even some of keysights scopes have them.
I would assume that they couldn't justify the NRE costs. If you add ethernet, you've got to do a load of extra EMC work. You need to re-tool the chassis production for the extra hole. It seems trivial, but it all adds up on a low-volume product like this. A few little tweaks can get perilously close to the cost of a full redesign.
Or maybe they're just couldn't be bothered.
Priority design goal was, to make a perfect / seamless copy of the old boards with small changes only to replace all terminated parts and make it ROHS compliant. Apart from that, any other updates / modifications / improvements were forbidden, because it was mandatory to not change the firmware. Any additional function would have caused a complete redesign of the software. And who knows, whether the source code and development environment was still available after > 25 years?
I let my own 3458A see this video, she was very happy.
Just how do you make such a dry subject so interesting to a layman? I’ll never have a reason to touch equipment like this but I’ll keep watching!
Same. Amazing how a single guy can get me interested in metrology for years, even when nothing I do relate to it in no way shape or form. I still want to drive around with that anker powerbank and compare ppms with friends (:
its the job of a poet to make a rotten apple a miniture replica of mars
As rare as the 3458A device is, I wonder how and where the tiny, tiny gloves are sourced? Perhaps they are shipped as accessories with the equipment for when the back-up battery needs to be replaced.
It is a mystery for shure
I suspect there is a dark and ugly story behind the existence of those tiny, tiny gloves :-)
Ive been looking for way too many minutes and can't really find anything suitable. Dark Magic is involved for sure!
I did some additional math on your noise values.
Something that is often important in my line of work is the trade-off between speed and noise/accuracy. Hence a lower NPLC is often preferred (if it does not introduce extra errors/offsets) because you can then later in software perform box-car filtering, or other fancy filter algorithms (excluding 10% and 90% percentile outliers etc.) depending on the situation.
I averaged every 100 values together for the 1 NPLC points, every 10 values for the 10 NPLC points, and comparing to the raw 100 NPLC data: All of these then have very similar RMS and peak-peak noise, however the offset is of course the same as in your data, i.e. best for 100 NPLC.
It is impressive that even 1 NPLC raw data can later be filtered/averaged in software for about the same overall noise as 100 NPLC raw data. This gives a lot of flexibility to the user!
Glad they decided to use ANA for Analog, and not used one more letter.
Great to see a new video and it's a decent duration, as well!
Maybe they use the L suffix for 10 digit+ accuracy systems.
At work I have a couple of folders in my test radios that contain analogue and digital channels respectively.
The problem is that there is only so much room for a folder / channel alias, so I have to get "creative" with the names, as I frequently have to take these sets to site, and demo for a client.
ANA for the win.
@@Zadstermaybe they didn't want to take the L
"If I'm robbed nobody is going to steal it because it looks like a VCR" lol, TRUE
Well, I lost it at the mini-gloves part :D
You were 1 second of the 3458A video being 34:58 long. RUclips why.
Haha yes this is annoying. The actual video file is 34:58 long and the thumbnail displays it correctly, but player doesn't agree 🙄
I have family living just 1km away from the PTB. The low ppm’s are palpable in the air when you bike past. Also nearby is the national agricultural research centre, where they have cows with holes in them. The collaboration potential between these two institutes is infinite.
Those are called cannulated cows. They are used primarily for feed research. The first cannulation was performed all the way back in the 1920s from what I read.
Nice to see a BR cell rather than a CR cell. These have more stable chemistry than CR cells, and therefore often have a longer operating life.
Kudos to you for making this video 34:58 min long.
great catch!
Wait what how
This reminds me of the feeling of being 12 and sitting down with a graphing calculator for the first time, looking through all the settings. Confusion and awe
why do these high end lab bench multimeter, calibrators all still use these VFD like displays, is there a specific reason to this, always wondered about this?
Same. Any input on this?
Perhaps because it refreshes faster? Less processing/delay compared to a digital screen? No idea just taking some guesses
one thing could also be that they may last longer when left on 24/-365 in test labs, vs LCD's where the backlight often dies after some amount of time. another thing Is a lot of these devices have old ancesters or olderversions, so using a known good design is often prefered to limit the needed part catalog.
@@Sw3d15h_F1s4 i dont think so, modern lcd/oled displays have a refresh rate of way over 120hz, plus these things have powerful fpga's in them so processing shouldn't be an issue, ig it might have to do something with such interfaces being industry standard but then that doesn't explain why they have used lcd screen in their newer bench power supplies, this is indeed intriguing
@@andreasthomsen852 but the newer bench psu's and some other equipment uses lcd/oled screens, so this is a bit weird
Glad to make an appearance 08:06
I absolutely love the frequency of new videos recently! :D
Where did you get the gloves for your tiny hands?
LOL you got me with that "xd" zoom at 25:26. I recommend you getting some old hybrid monostables "WTF001" with date code "XD" to put the icing on top of the cake! (and yes, they exist and are sold)
Well I cannot believe that you actually got them lol
This is the first time in a long time I didn't skip parts of a video on RUclips, fantastic!
The DCV T.C. arises from both the LTZ reference and the U180 circuit. In my 3458A, both parts each contribute about half (0.2 and 0.25ppm/K) of the overall T.C., in the same direction. You may distinguish both by measuring CAL? 72 over different inner temperatures (do ACAL at different extreme TEMP? values and directly write down this '72 gain parameter). KS still did not correct the other design bug in the LTZ1000A circuit, i.e. the 200kOhm resistor is still equipped, which should only be used for the non-A version. Therefore, I suspect that your residual 0.5ppm/K mostly comes from the reference board. Other possibility is, that on your older 3458A, both T.C.s mostly cancel out. A last hint: get a proper basement room, which might serve as a passive A/C, i.e. stable R.T. at +/- 1°C over the whole year. Under such unstable temperature conditions, your equipment is like Anna Kournikova: Looks pretty nice, but does not win a price. (Temperature) Stability is everything.
My first 11 years out of college I worked on Automated Test Equipment and every machine my division shipped had a 3458A inside that we used for auto calibration. I worked on the automated calibration of the machines and managed the driver for the 3458A. You know pretty much all the secrets of the machine and the auto calibration after a 1C change for sure was part of my routine. One thing that we used was current measurements and I remember that we had a problem with measurement noise coming from the GPIB interface that only affected current measurements. We found a company that sold a GPIB isolator and we had to install that between the 3458A and the Sun workstation that was the computer in our testers. I had probably touched a hundred 3458A meters while I worked there and everyone was amazing.
"Immune to plastic discoloration"
Ask Dell about that one...
Can we see some information about the processing on the Solartron? I have a (lower-end) Solartron meter with the programming options, and it's insane what it could do for 1977.
I'm tying not to be drooling when I see this Multimeter 🤤
Great teardown video 👏
If they sent you the 8ppm version instead of the 4ppm version Keysight is doing quite well by their customers.
I love your videos. You have a beautiful grasp of Englisch and your phrasing and jokes are worth every penny! You, sir, are...not A diamond in the rough, but THE diamond in the rough. Please continue being yourself, you are very much appreciated. The spreadsheet on the wall was a nice touch and I liked the camerawork. I love to see all the rear connectors and labeling. Good job.
Love the thumbnail.......the Keysight logo on the bucket of paint.....LOL
Former Keithley engineer here. While we certainly respected the 3458, I often wondered how many difficulties HP/Agilent/Keysight had to keep making the 3458 for so long. I had to work on maintaining the Keithley 2002, and let's just say there were a lot of parts that had gone obsolete in the 2002's lifetime, and some parts we had to get creative trying to replace them.
3 decades ago I was in APEX Surplus in Sun Valley and a friend was buying used Fluke differential volt meters to rebuild many for a military place. The original older serial number ones had a slightly radioactive neon bulb in the chopper circuit. A stock new bulb worked but did not last as long. The doped neon bulb that was slightly radio active had a lower firing voltage. I think the replacement Fluke bulbs then were non radioactive.
Always a pleasure to see your lovely videos, awesome ppm stickers. Guess the 3458a is so good it can just be called 'the meter'. Worth the patreon support for awesome videos like this. Thanks
I'm pleased to say I have one of these pieces of precision test gear on my bench right now. It has been there for a few years, powered up 24/7. It seems nice and stable, always reliable. However, it does have a white case, not one of the trendy black enclosures.
No, not a 3458A, an Auriol radio locked clock / thermometer! Oh man, imagine if you could get 3458As from the middle of Lidl!
I would love to see a guide in how you've managed to graph everything inside Graphana, Or if you have a link to one you've used.
34 MINUTES? oh god yes, what an amazing early birthday gift.
I love everything you do, even though I have no idea what you are saying half the time, i'm just fascinated.
34:58, to be exact
About a month ago I had the lucky and fascinating opportunity to visit the electrical standards labs at another national metrology institute in Europe. Of course, they also use the Agilent/Keysight 3458A in several places.
I also saw GPIB everywhere, now I know why. But Ethernet and SCPI would certainly be adequate features in the 21st century.
I always did consider these things to be mysterious black boxes but..
Were does the "Warning Contains highly precious ppms" sticker come from? I neeeeeeed it :D Do you sell them in your merch store?
You’re humor always makes my day!
Great video Marco, I noticed on my HP34401A that the mains voltage varies the amount of power dissipated within the instrument than the internal temperature, so even if the ambient temperate is stable the varying mains volage will still change the internal temperature. As you are trying to eliminate all sources of PPM leakage an easy simple solution to further stabilise your test setup is to run your equipment from a stable AC voltage source which these days can be as simple as a 48V battery inverter from your new PV array. The added advantage is being fully backed up from any mains failure further locking those PPMs in.
Marco pumping out vids since he has power again
My favourite channel on youtube
Please marco, I can only get excited so many times a month.... You're just being to kind at this point ☺️
I honestly don't know anything about anything you're talking about. Still enjoy the videos. Keep it up!
That was a nice string of videos! The man does remember us.
Right? I'm really enjoying all these new videos. Don't go burning yourself out now Marco 😉.
Nice videos as always! Super cool for Keysight to send you such an amazing toy :D
So many videos this month! Thank you so much for your continuously high quality entertainment!
Everything's better with Dark Theme. And so much content from you again lately, awesome!
6:10 🤣 Where the ****** did you get gloves for your fingerhands? I'm crying! 🤣
As just a hobbyist glad to know my secondhand old HP is way more accurate and overkill for a guy who just builds simple audio amplifiers lol 😂
Thanks for your videos for guiding me on my path to purchasing old reliable equipment but it takes up a lot of bench top and shelf workspace compared to the new stuff.
A few years ago I bought (for work) an audio analyser for 2k instead of the 12k unit that budget was allocated for because I could not fit the massive box of the expensive one on the bench😀
@@andrewwhite1793 i’m planning to do the same thing AUDIO analyzer is on my wish list bucket list
Of course I really don’t need it but I like tools I like learning things and I like tweaking things
I can't believe you have two of these! I dream of owning one, my best meter in terms of precision is my 'lowly' 6.5 digit Keithley 2015THD.
I wonder how loud Marco screamed when was told he's getting sent a branch new 3458 ...
You might be the person to ask. I remember using a bench top DVM in class some time before 1977. It had the form factor similar to the Keithley 2700, but the bottom half was a plug-in compartment that allowed it to become different devices... Such as a DVM, Frequency counter, etc.. I am not even sure of the brand name..
The main body was a metal case where the top half was nothing except a display and power supply.
The bottom half was a slide in compartment with a connector in the back. This is where the plug-in modules slide in like a drawer until it presses into the connector at the back.
If I remember correctly, the display was a standard RED 7 segment LED display.
I know it is nothing compared to the meter in this video, but I think it would be nice to find out what it was and what it was capable of...
"It’s the wild colour scheme that freaks me out," said Zaphod, ... "Every time you try and operate these weird black controls that are labelled in black on a black background, a little black light lights up in black to let you know you’ve done it."
Zaphod Beeblebrox, The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe
I live in Loveland colorado and am just tickled pink whenever you mention it. I have even talked to some of the retired engineers that used to work at the hp plant.
6:25 where on earth did you get small gloves for your fingertip hand extenders??
I understand almost nothing about this, but I'm here for it regardless.
ok so i just have to say that im no electronics wizzard but damn dude you make these videos so much more enjoyable , ive been subbed for a few months now and every time a new video Drop i get excited , good Job and keep up the quality content
A brand new video on my birthday!? Danke sehr Marco!
harvesting coto relays before ripeness - a pretty good one
this is fantastic btw
We remember Marco from the days he was so poor that he had to go out and harvest capacitors in a field. (An agricultural, not electrical field)
Wow, amazing how the ambient temp influences the meters cal. GPIB would be easier than going through all the menu buttons.
GPIB is the intended method for driving a 3458A. You can actually only get the maximum number of digits of resolution from the remote interface - the front-panel display always drops a couple.
Even if my old and trusty HP 3478A serves me very well with it's 6.5/7.5 Digits the 3458A is just "WOW"!!! :-D Nice bit of test gear. Even if it from time to time would remind me of the sentence: "Measure with micrometer caliper, mark down with a piece of chalk and in the end chop off with an axe" ;-)
Fascinating video of a fascinating instrument. This is NASA-like stuff - and I love it.
Why isn't this guy working for CERN...
The tiny hands and gloves sent me lol.
Would there be value in getting a rack which has temperature control for your lab? Maybe temp regulated airflow from behind?
Yes, I've been looking for a climatized server rack for a while, it would be great! It'd be a bit tricky to get good temperature uniformity in such a tight space, but I am sure it can be arranged
@@reps Have you read "Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" by Wayne R. Moore? The Internet Archive has a copy. Part 2 section 4 describes their temperature control: 20°C from floor to ceiling, held to within 1/90°C. In the 1960s. Not easy or cheap to achieve though.
@@reps there are foam insulated flight case, racks which could be good for the purpose and keep your installation portable.
The foam is intended for shock proofing but also provides some insulation value.
Oh, it would actually be pretty easy to build a light-duty cleanroom. Mostly just getting the raised floor tiles and setting up air circulation to the ceiling with filtration somewhere in the air chaise/ducting.
Ok, where did you get that tiny glove for the tiny hand lol priceless
Ah...PTB ! I've been there with my CIE "hat on" ...how nice for you!!
Pretty awesome how you described everything Is How Thing's work This would be one awesome tool to have
I'm guessing those $100k Josephson meters are the next stretch goal, amirite?
Oh god... don't say it... he'll do it!
I've honestly never wanted, needed, or used a desktop multi meter. But now I kinda want one
Wow that is magnificent. I’m not sure on the black I think white text is hard to read but lovely. Thanks for sharing
Awesome video as always! 👍
Im currious about your data logging software, what kind of timeseries database do you use? Sth along the lines of prometheus/influx/clickhouse? I would love to know :)
Influx + Grafana
I lost it when you pulled out the tiny gloves 😂
Great video
Could you please decide if the Keysight or the HP is on top.
I have, HP belongs on top because Keysight is cooler and therefore wont affect HP as much. Long term everybody belongs into a (climatized) rack maybe
No discount code for 1ppm off when ordering a new 3458?
@@reps Well I just noticed that you switched your order multiple times during the video.
0:48 The White face 3458A chasing my ppm's has the Keysight upper Left "display-bezel" where the display is. Keysight red snake logo too. :) The unit is made in America with the A in the serial number. So maybe the display bezel only got replaced and not the entire front panel? A new old stock white entire front bezel is 500 bucks by somebody in China on ebay and it says Agilent.
Where the heck did you get the tiny latex glove? I have a pair of tiny hands, and now I see that they need gloves! Interesting and funny as usual. Thanks!
I don't always care about PPM's, but when I do It's while watching Marco Reps videos :)
EXTREMELY disappointed to see the thin sponge style of dust filter on the rear - was that the original filter provided? Those fall apart quickly and leave the intake bare. I find the cup-style wire mesh filter to be the most effective, and easiest to clean.
Now that clock next to the instruments needs a accuracy upgrade too.
What a great video! Thanks for sharing your efforts ...
Ahhhh, Fluke 8508A reference bench multimeter, my daily user bench DMM as a repair tech at Fluke UK, fixing 8588A reference bench DMMs. This is where all the PPMs get installed. :D
.... do you guys have a scrap container in the cellar for hopeless causes? 😁
@@reps Yes, but for within the company use only. 🙁
Oh goodness, what a thing of beauty!
What did you use for recording and plotting all of these traces on the Pi?
Would really like to have something similar for a smart garden project with the Pi being accessible on a web interface.
YAY. we need more matte black gear
The camera angles are good
I’m so glad that you make these videos, so that I can get my 3458a fix without having to spend $$$ to buy a 3458a 🤣
When are you releasing a video on the HARP project hanging behind your desk? :)
Every episode comes with a free quadruple espresso. At least that's how inspired I am by the end!
Re-uploaded? I'm sure I have seen this one already
I feel like this will change humanity fore ever.
While you dream of having a girlfriend, someone has two. While you are dreaming of an HP3458A, at least a broken one, someone has two, and one of them is a brand-new in a badass black skin straight from the Keysight.
Life is fair and balanced :)
While the REST of the world (with a few notable exceptions) continue to struggle with a WunHungLo 3.5 digit DMM, we have MarcoReps with not one, but TWO 3458 DMMs along with a decent proportion of the equipment that would feel quite at home in a high end cal lab.
DROOOOOOL!
I lust for this gear ... Awesome video.
Marco Reps is the This Old Tony of CNC Kitchens
2:39 but Marco -- how calibrated is your thermometer when you were taking those measurements?!
I hope they release the BOM and schematics for this one too ....
3458A's do love company and tend to multiply, while wallet paperwork minimify at same time. On serious note - "guaranteed accuracy" rubs my ear wrong way :)..
Wrong position of 5700A with exhaust blowing right next to 742A and 3458A posts...
Thanks bro needed that millimetre precision strike 😂
Danke sehr!!
I am aware that it is not necessary. People working with that thing on an everyday basis will know the options. But on the other hand, would it be such a hassle to implement a graphical user interface? I bet even professionals miss options, they would have seen on a GUI, but they don't find it if there are just some short abbreviations of it shown when scrolling through lists.
Or would it harm the accuracy to have a real screen close by?
It would interfere with parts commonality. Keysight makes a lot of money maintaining old instruments that labs are clinging onto like grim death. Having new parts available as drop-in replacements for old instruments is invaluable.
I loved this review.
I’m a bit jealous of that meter, I would love to have one of those!
me too
Always amazing!