"Some people try to outplay their opponent, but little do they know that you can just press up-smash at ledge as Snake." Alpharad, 2019, explaining how to ledge trap.
Great guide! I also think that you forget to talk about the fact that if an opponent isn’t punishing you for doing the same option every time they are maybe waiting for you to be at higher % since they want to punish you for it by taking the stock. A lot of players keep there reads in mind for the moment where they can have a big reward on it.
Storing reads and conditioning doesn’t just apply to ledge trapping, but to nearly every interaction at a higher level. Besides, I think this guide is more to give a basic understanding than giving background on the mental battle at ledge at higher levels.
"some characters have big getup attacks that are hard to jump over or just good options to counter short hop areals" Toon Link: **stands there...menacingly**
Great video! Only thing I think worth adding is what is and isn't reactable. Regular get up and roll are all reactable, while jumping from the ledge or drop down double jumping is not. To punish jumps from ledge you have to preemptively have a hit box out, which you did talk about, but I think understanding the context is important. Another guide I watched explained ledge trapping in terms of three styles, reactive, pre-emptive, and somewhere in between, and you want to choose a ledge trapping style based on how your opponent seems to be getting off ledge / what character you use.
@@tahalm3510 drop down double jump aerials technically are, but granted it is hard. You cant necessarily hit them out of it, but shield comes out fast enough that you can shield it and then punish. Trust me, if it wasn't reactable, all top players would use it with way higher frequency
@@saigesmart4167 Since the average human reaction time is about 12 frames, and the game has a standard 6 frames of input delay, you would need 18 frames for reaction to be possible. Tons of characters have aerials from ledge below 10 frames, and since you can buffer jump forward from ledge, it is very difficult if not impossible to react to aerial from ledge, unless its byleth lol.
Random Person it does but Belmont mains at most levels are using side b and neutral b to force a roll so they can holy water them when they’re vulnerable
Random Person the Belmonts are practically designed for ledge trapping Staying on ledge gets you hit by the axe Neutral getup gets you hit by the axe or the cross Jump gets you hit by the axe Drop down aerial gets you hit by the axe Getup attack gets you hit by the axe Roll is the only one left and you can’t shield/spotdodge/parry/catch the holy water while in a roll animation It has right timing on the Belmont player’s part but it’s a great setup for ledge traps
There's a lot of info in this thread that deserves its own reply but if you want a better idea of how Belmont ledgetrapping works T3 Dom made a pretty in depth guide on it recently, including reasons on why the traditional belmont ledgetrap doesn't work as well as you would think.
I just have to say I really enjoy the clips u use in the backgrounds of your videos. Makes it very easy to understand what you mean cuz u see it happening in the vid. Great work finding all these clips
Thanks for this one Larry. I think I’ve been too predictable at the ledge and using the same get up options too often but that’s what I’ll work on this week.
Could you think of ledgetrapping as covering as many options the opponent has at once while keeping yourself in a position that you won’t get punished for or missing such as covering get up and roll since those can reset nuetral while reacting to jump as a last priority because they’re in the air and you have the opportunity to juggle them while still keeping advantage? Sorry for the poor wording
I recall seeing in a different video (I think it was form Dabuz?) about “flow” when ledgetrapping or moving around different positions, to make guessing harder for your opponent. Are the general places to go for that or is it all character dependent?
Anyone else relate to that "know what they're going to do but still get hit by it" Time to start studying the timing on their options instead of just "they do this after that"
How much of ledge trapping is reaction time? Like can you realistically react to any option somebody has based purely off their first few frames? Or is it simply reading and conditioning?
Also keep in mind your opponent is possibly waiting for you to change the get up option you do because they got a punish for it last time so they expect you to change what you do
Can you do a video explaining how to shield? Shielding looks like it's the most mindless part of the game because it *should* keep you safe from anything but grabs, but sometimes it's just not the case. Sometimes you get poked, sometimes your shield gets too small and you start camping your shield back, do you still shield and fish for parries? Or sometimes your shield gets pressured and you dont know how to handle it (I dont lol). From what I've seen, there's no guides on youtube on how to use shield safely other than ZeRo's How to Parry, which at this point is common knowledge for the most part. But what kinds of moves you want to shift your shield upwards or downwards for, how to force an opponent to approach a certain way or something, and especially how to NOT to shield on impulse and consequentially getting grabbed. And by extension Rolling safely whether it be away or past your opponent, correctly parrying certain multi-hit moves with similar patterns, a prominent guide on how to shield *better* would be fantastic
Just some micro advice, the best way to deal with shield pressure is to know your options oos and how safe your opponents moves are. For example if you play young link your fastest option is frame 7 (nair) meaning that I know sheik fair (-2) will be safe on hitting my shield so I just should jump or roll from shield.
I remember watching your Wolf against Konga's Donkey Kong in Kongo Saga, and I got really mad for your ledge trapping, looked very annoying and cheap, but truly, it's a very interesting concept, Larry.
Something people sleep on is dropping ledge and immediately recovering. It’s not a good option and doesn’t work for some characters, but if you find your opponent isn’t playing too carefully you’ll be able to catch them with it.
Speaking of ledge trapping, what's that one Nintendo fangame where it was like? Poorly modeled Mario and Luigi, and Mario had a gun? To shoot aliens? And there were Pikmin getting abducted by aliens? It was played on vinesauce, there was "Mushroom Kingdom" in the title I think?
Can you ledge trap bayonetta? She has jump off ledge side b and then jump away. Though this is an easy read you can delay it or mix up, how would you go about ledge trapping her
Maybe I missed it, but I think you forgot to mention that if someone ledge drops and then re-grabs the ledge, they have NO invulnerability. So if you see them try this you can attack immediately.
*sees title of the video* Just play plant. Yes I know I made this overused joke, but this was just a perfect opportunity to make the joke because Plant has one of the best or has the best ledge trapping in the game.
Great Guide that is very informative but I just spam side-B at ledge and I cover 80% of options so I instantly think of jump or roll and I U-air or downsmash and win :3 -Robin Main
@@masonstackman5366 I have never heard manic in my life but I think you meant magic Then spam neutral B(the small one) since the can not do shit I just react to their jump really or Run and shield like a normal swordmen :3
6:44 *LUCAS WANTS TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION* bruh u cant be pretty positive every character can do something Theres over 80 characters someones got a slow as frick up smash
"Some people try to outplay their opponent, but little do they know that you can just press up-smash at ledge as Snake."
Alpharad, 2019, explaining how to ledge trap.
Or just play belmont
And exist...
@Random Person which is why you force them out and then holy water to whatever attack you feel like
Gordo
7:40 Leffen in grand finald laughing at Mr. R's mistake
Is that Hollow Knight music I hear? :D
Cryoto thats right !
Yes!
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed
Indeed it is
I was about to say
Hollow knight music=automatic like
It is so good but it is so depressing :(
Alejandroide *NKG would like to talk*
Great guide! I also think that you forget to talk about the fact that if an opponent isn’t punishing you for doing the same option every time they are maybe waiting for you to be at higher % since they want to punish you for it by taking the stock. A lot of players keep there reads in mind for the moment where they can have a big reward on it.
(also I’m french, sorry if my english sucks)
Storing reads and conditioning doesn’t just apply to ledge trapping, but to nearly every interaction at a higher level. Besides, I think this guide is more to give a basic understanding than giving background on the mental battle at ledge at higher levels.
I think that falls under a different category at that point, mainly mindgames, reading, and punishing.
Apple Pi yeah exactly
@@waxy_7806 your English is great!
I'm a simple man, you put anything Hollow Knight related in a video and I'll like the video
"some characters have big getup attacks that are hard to jump over or just good options to counter short hop areals"
Toon Link: **stands there...menacingly**
Great video! Only thing I think worth adding is what is and isn't reactable. Regular get up and roll are all reactable, while jumping from the ledge or drop down double jumping is not. To punish jumps from ledge you have to preemptively have a hit box out, which you did talk about, but I think understanding the context is important. Another guide I watched explained ledge trapping in terms of three styles, reactive, pre-emptive, and somewhere in between, and you want to choose a ledge trapping style based on how your opponent seems to be getting off ledge / what character you use.
Double jump aerial is most definitely not reactable with how insane aerials are in this game.
@@tahalm3510 drop down double jump aerials technically are, but granted it is hard. You cant necessarily hit them out of it, but shield comes out fast enough that you can shield it and then punish. Trust me, if it wasn't reactable, all top players would use it with way higher frequency
@@saigesmart4167 Since the average human reaction time is about 12 frames, and the game has a standard 6 frames of input delay, you would need 18 frames for reaction to be possible. Tons of characters have aerials from ledge below 10 frames, and since you can buffer jump forward from ledge, it is very difficult if not impossible to react to aerial from ledge, unless its byleth lol.
@@tahalm3510 yeah actually i think you're right, they must have categorized drop down with jump from ledge then, good catch
@@tahalm3510 I'm going to edit my original comment, but know its not me being petty, its so ppl who read just that arent misinformed
Belmont mains reading the title like:
*so your teaching me how to press the b button*
Sad but true
Random Person it does but Belmont mains at most levels are using side b and neutral b to force a roll so they can holy water them when they’re vulnerable
MCSwashbuckler not true,,
Random Person the Belmonts are practically designed for ledge trapping
Staying on ledge gets you hit by the axe
Neutral getup gets you hit by the axe or the cross
Jump gets you hit by the axe
Drop down aerial gets you hit by the axe
Getup attack gets you hit by the axe
Roll is the only one left and you can’t shield/spotdodge/parry/catch the holy water while in a roll animation
It has right timing on the Belmont player’s part but it’s a great setup for ledge traps
There's a lot of info in this thread that deserves its own reply but if you want a better idea of how Belmont ledgetrapping works T3 Dom made a pretty in depth guide on it recently, including reasons on why the traditional belmont ledgetrap doesn't work as well as you would think.
bro that beginning music hit me with some huuuuggee nostalgia
3:00 Wow I didn’t think about that! I thought it would be the opposite. Good tip for fellow Pit players
I just have to say I really enjoy the clips u use in the backgrounds of your videos. Makes it very easy to understand what you mean cuz u see it happening in the vid. Great work finding all these clips
Thumbnail: Greninja hanging on ledge
Greninja mains: you hurt us all...
Besides that your guide was amazing
Yes us 5 Greninja mains
But like seriously anyone greninja main here
@@wakilhamidi3377 im here
the hollow knight music SLAPS
Well made! I appreciate the use of Reflection.
Very informative video, and great choice of music!
Thanks for this one Larry. I think I’ve been too predictable at the ledge and using the same get up options too often but that’s what I’ll work on this week.
Nice! Helpful I never played smash 4. This is the hardest part of Ult for me.
i was just looking over your ledge play trying to improve mine, great timing.
Yay it's finally here! Thank you Larry this guide is monumental
Could you think of ledgetrapping as covering as many options the opponent has at once while keeping yourself in a position that you won’t get punished for or missing such as covering get up and roll since those can reset nuetral while reacting to jump as a last priority because they’re in the air and you have the opportunity to juggle them while still keeping advantage? Sorry for the poor wording
The Mario in the beginning really liked to neutral get up
I recall seeing in a different video (I think it was form Dabuz?) about “flow” when ledgetrapping or moving around different positions, to make guessing harder for your opponent. Are the general places to go for that or is it all character dependent?
I love the hollow Knight music. And the video too :)
Awesome guide. Make a spacie specific ledge trapping and edge guarding guide!
These are the only real "Tips" videos on Smash. But foreal, always dope out here Larry, keep up the great content👍🔥
Bananaboyssbu is a great tips channel, and proguides is ok too
Anyone else relate to that "know what they're going to do but still get hit by it"
Time to start studying the timing on their options instead of just "they do this after that"
Zss down b lmao
Ness mains: I'm not tall enough for my yoyo so I'll just use it by the ledge.
Larry keep them Hollow Knight bangers on him
How much of ledge trapping is reaction time? Like can you realistically react to any option somebody has based purely off their first few frames? Or is it simply reading and conditioning?
Fox: c-stick goes clicky clacky
Does wall clinging count as air time, like does it also increase your invincibility on ledge?
Flipped when I heard the Hollow Knight
How about ledge trumping?
It forces people to pick an option and makes them panic.
It makes me paniccc i'm like yeah i'll rest here for a second but then they do that
Great video, i would like to see a video of yours about how to get back on stage without getting ledgetrapped.
Great and simple guide. Keep up the good content!
love the hollow knight ost
Useful now I see why my friend always stall with Pac-Man at the ledge
Great overview. Thank you.
Hey I'm a tekken player here for Kazuya any tips for a beginner? ( I played melee as a kid so I've got an idea of what's happening)
Ooooooo nice choice of music
Also keep in mind your opponent is possibly waiting for you to change the get up option you do because they got a punish for it last time so they expect you to change what you do
but what if they expect you to expect them to expect you
@@xen3588 then you would be a professional player
Can you do a video explaining how to shield? Shielding looks like it's the most mindless part of the game because it *should* keep you safe from anything but grabs, but sometimes it's just not the case. Sometimes you get poked, sometimes your shield gets too small and you start camping your shield back, do you still shield and fish for parries? Or sometimes your shield gets pressured and you dont know how to handle it (I dont lol).
From what I've seen, there's no guides on youtube on how to use shield safely other than ZeRo's How to Parry, which at this point is common knowledge for the most part. But what kinds of moves you want to shift your shield upwards or downwards for, how to force an opponent to approach a certain way or something, and especially how to NOT to shield on impulse and consequentially getting grabbed. And by extension Rolling safely whether it be away or past your opponent, correctly parrying certain multi-hit moves with similar patterns, a prominent guide on how to shield *better* would be fantastic
Just some micro advice, the best way to deal with shield pressure is to know your options oos and how safe your opponents moves are. For example if you play young link your fastest option is frame 7 (nair) meaning that I know sheik fair (-2) will be safe on hitting my shield so I just should jump or roll from shield.
I remember watching your Wolf against Konga's Donkey Kong in Kongo Saga, and I got really mad for your ledge trapping, looked very annoying and cheap, but truly, it's a very interesting concept, Larry.
Something people sleep on is dropping ledge and immediately recovering. It’s not a good option and doesn’t work for some characters, but if you find your opponent isn’t playing too carefully you’ll be able to catch them with it.
Chrom mains: the green button and the yellow stick is all i need
hey I need some help. how does bowser get up grab from the ledge ? like what inputs are needed . iv tried side b but it doesn't work for some reason
dope that this video is just out here for free thanks larry
aw yeah that hollow knight music
The music fits so well with this video
Hollow knight music fits with everything
Awesome video. Keep it up, Larry!
Leffen's smile at 7:40 lmaoooooo
Speaking of ledge trapping, what's that one Nintendo fangame where it was like? Poorly modeled Mario and Luigi, and Mario had a gun? To shoot aliens? And there were Pikmin getting abducted by aliens? It was played on vinesauce, there was "Mushroom Kingdom" in the title I think?
I think the game you're thinking of was called Nintendo Nightmare.
@@ReynLynxPSI Yes that was the game
Hollow knight ost, nice
I've been enjoying the content lately keep it up.
in the last week all I've been focusing on is ledge trapping and there hasn't been a good guide I've found and then this just shows up
Hollow knight bso, you are the best my man
Great guide
Masterful. Thank you.
oh boy
People online be like: 9:58
(Neutral getup is unreactable online a lot of the times so people use it)
da goat for the guide man. thanks
One thing I struggle with is knowing when i should commit to ledge trapping, or go for the edge guard.
Can you ledge trap bayonetta? She has jump off ledge side b and then jump away. Though this is an easy read you can delay it or mix up, how would you go about ledge trapping her
I thought something glitched and I didn’t have my Hollow Knight closed.. You the goat for this✊🏽
Excellent! Well done!
Maybe I missed it, but I think you forgot to mention that if someone ledge drops and then re-grabs the ledge, they have NO invulnerability. So if you see them try this you can attack immediately.
I
like the hollow knight theme
yo wtf was that at 8:47 it’s as if he had no lag??
ruclips.net/video/i1TZXs_N39Y/видео.html
Hollie knight bench music
Hollow*
i literally downloaded hollow knight about a week ago and this music in the video lol
You have a great voice for videos
Pick zss and down b when getting ledge trapped
Mfw I use Ganon upsmash and my friends decide to hold shield and get it broken
That's hollow knight music!
actually need this since i suck at ledgetrapping
Very helpful
*sees title of the video*
Just play plant.
Yes I know I made this overused joke, but this was just a perfect opportunity to make the joke because Plant has one of the best or has the best ledge trapping in the game.
Great Guide that is very informative but I just spam side-B at ledge and I cover 80% of options so I instantly think of jump or roll and I U-air or downsmash and win
:3
-Robin Main
Ax31. exe lol what if ur manic is gone
@@masonstackman5366 I have never heard manic in my life but I think you meant magic
Then spam neutral B(the small one) since the can not do shit
I just react to their jump really or Run and shield like a normal swordmen :3
Ax31. exe yo i main robin too and this is 100% accurate. Like robin, other characters can cover tons of options with certain setups too
Well-made video :)
8:14 OOOOH
Hollow Knight music?
I'm sittin here, pants off, and the hollow knight music is making me nostalgic. Thanks larry
Been playing hollow knight all day and thought the music was coming from my head
Let me condense this 11min video in a sentence "Cover as many options as possible or cover the most likely ones"
You should've mentioned moving around between different locations that are good for ledge-trapping, not just picking one and going with it
Yes please do another video
why did the like button glow when you said "give it a like"???? witchcraft
Jumping is unreactable
maybe a word on walljumps and tethers
can someone link me the music in this video?
21,365th. Nifty.
Music?
ok but look at piranha plant's name
Came down to join the hollow knight fans in the comments
6:44
*LUCAS WANTS TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION*
bruh u cant be pretty positive every character can do something
Theres over 80 characters someones got a slow as frick up smash
I use Sheik
Packun Flower
Incineroar is good at it
Why did he put sad music
I hate ledge trapping if only edge guard is stronger
Larry see my Ridley bruh what's your long ass Nintendo friend code?