Are Power Paddles Overrated for Amateurs?
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- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2024
- Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
1:21 - Point #1
2:41 - Point #2
3:27 - Point #3
4:03 - Counter arguments
6:21 - Final Thoughts
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I know "Power" and "Control" are the two buzzwords in pickleball and these buzzwords are used extensively to sell paddles. In my humble opinion, REFLEX is far more important. To win more games, it is all about how quick your footwork and how fast your hand speed, especially at the NVZ lines.
I fully agree with Aizec's brother. I went down the rabbit hole of changing paddles every month, always looking for hotter paddles. Turns out I play my best (~4.0) with an all-court paddle that I've had since last year (DBD 16mm.) I also think we underestimate the benefits of sticking to one paddle to really get the feel for it and improve consistency on all shots.
🙋🏻♂️guilty.
I watched all my videos and realized that the reason i was losing games was not because of lack of power. More for lack of control. I went back to my vatic prism flash and my game has increased drastically.
I went thru the exact same paddle journey. I don't think I will ever cheat on my vatic prism flash again.
“Not hitting the ball hard enough, isn’t your problem.” There’s some wisdom right there! The content of this one will bring controversy maybe, but I think it’s thought provoking and many should feel seen!😜
Adding lead or tungsten tape to a control paddle can also provide that edge and extra boost that players may be looking for without having to switch completely to a power paddle.
I agree with you Chris. I bought the PIKKL Hurricane Pro 16mm a couple weeks ago and am really liking it! It was initially lighter than I prefer, so I added some weight at 4, 8 and 12 which was great for me. I’m older (72) and don’t swing that hard so needed a bit more weight for drives and serves. With the added weight, it now has a great blend of control and decent power. Hard for me to pick up my Ruby now.
All the sudden, the paddle manufacturers become all about control paddles
Chris, you and I just became best friends. This is all I've been preaching to my local court players for several months now. Control over power makes one more consistent and grow as a player. Control gives a player to way to string a combo together that in many cases ends in an error for the other side or a super satisfying put away for yourself.
Now, get Ryan, Eric or Julian to put that $142 sale back up!
Totally agree with you. Most players need to learn control before needing power, Power will come once you've mastered the Control.
Great job Chris. Reminds me of one of your earlier videos, we're all so focused on "power" these days, maybe what we really should be focusing on is "control".
Chris, great job. Loved watching the clips of your match. Think about doing a breakdown of one of your matches commenting on the qualities of the paddle. Thanks
Top 3 paddles that I am playing with right now: Power - Engage Pursuit Pro | Control - Selkirk Luxx Jack Sock (With lead tape at the top) | All Court & Affordable - Hudef Gen 3. I realize nobody asked but these 3 paddles are so great for so many different reasons!
Turning my GBPro into a "all court" paddle is for sure taking time. Just a "3.5" at best Rec guy. I own and play all types of paddles. Your take is spot on with what paddle for what area and player.
Currently using control paddles more and putting the ball "where they ain't" style of play.
Have the new THOMPSON in the mail to add to my quiver of paddle styles.
I think you nail it near the end of the video when you point out that many players could hit harder with control paddles if they had better technique. I'm certainly in this boat and plan to take lessons with a tennis coach soon who is excellent at breaking down the mechanics of basic strokes. In the meantime, when I enter tournaments, while I prefer playing with a control paddle that has great "feel" and spin (like the Ruby), as I fatigue during the tournament I lean towards switching to my Gearbox Power paddle. This is what I did recently when I won gold in Men's 3.5 at an APP tournament. I played with the Ruby for first 50% of games, and then as I lost steam I switched to the Gearbox. I'm pretty decent at the control part of the game; I just have a ways to go until I learn the proper techniques to generate power more effortlessly.
I recently upgraded from a gearbox cx14 (complete control paddle) as I felt I lacked put away power when needed. So I demoed the new pro series from gearbox, both control and power and both shapes. Even though it didn’t get the “best” review (😉) I chose the control elongated as it gave me enough power when needed, while maintaining the control I wanted to have the confidence in my shots without having to readjust my entire game to accommodate the power versions. I agree that for anyone 4.0 and below, your consistency will win you the most points!
My only worry about 3.0 players with power paddles is that they smash it right at your head constantly because they can't aim at all.
Great insights. Yes, for most rec players, vatic prism flash or equivalent is the best way to play better subject to what you said about temperature and humidity in Florida and Arizona.
I love my power paddles for singles, but like you said, doubles against stronger opponents can be a challenge. Well thought out discussion in your presentation 🤩.
Great video. I will definitely consider this when I buy my next paddle. Any chance you will make a review video on the Babolat paddles. Always loves their tennis rackets but the paddles are relatively new and I haven’t seen many reviews that I trust but maybe with a review done by you will help with my decision because those paddles are expensive 💰
Great perspective Chris. Speaking like a true 3.5. Am very curious to please ask you, 2 questions ? First what you think about the new Fat Boy ( with regards to the Mach 2 Forza 16mm ) and second, the Mach 2 Forza 16mm vs the Joola Scorpeus CJ 16mm Gen 2 or 3.
I also love 16x8 standard paddles, I wish Engage would put a 5.5 inch handle on the Engage Pursuit Pro EX 6.0. Your thoughts ? Thank you and saludos from Panama.
Makes total sense why it’s easy for me to use the PPE in Florida with the Franklins. I just added even more lead to mine.
Been playing with my friends Vatic Prism Flash 16mm lately. I won’t lie, I played very well with it. I bought one a few days after because I loved the feeling of it so much
I love that paddle. Not enough power for me and the handle isn't long enough for me. But I have fond memories of it.
@@ginjaninja3627 I feel that. It’s got just enough pop to where I can put balls away with a strong flick, but plenty of control to be super comfortable at the kitchen
Thanks for doing this video but more importantly thanks for using one of these paddles. I think you using a paddle like the Volair gives you some cred on the subject.
About a year ago we went through a spin frenzy with everyone wanting the paddle that generated the most RPM. Currently, we are going through a power frenzy but I could not agree more: for the average 3.5-4.5 player, control is what will win games. Control sets up opportunities to use power to put away rallies. Power without control is a losing formula. Still, many like their shiny power paddles.
Great commentary on a timely subject! Where are you in MN?
Wow, the point you made about climate never occurred to me! I’ve been playing with the TKO C and I purchased it from a person in Illinois who said he couldn’t “dial in” the power. I haven’t had a problem at all and I’ve been playing with it for weeks!
I live in Florida…it’s been 85-95 degrees every time I play and at the club I play at everyone prefers X40s 🤯😂
Chris- Great comments. I play my best when I’m placing my shots as intended. Power is never the issue, it’s accuracy. A perfectly placed shot is more fun than a smash all day. IMO
Would love to see a graphical presentation of paddles on a spectrum from Control -> All Court -> Power along the x-axis with possibly some other relevant parameter along the y-axis (maybe price, or some other paddle performance spec). That way you could get a quick general comparison between a lot of different paddles in an easy to interpret format. For example, I'd be interested in where you currently put the Ronbus Pulsar R1 on the Control-to-Power spectrum and how it compares to a lot of the newer paddles. Maybe you already have something like this on your web page??? I'll have to look. Definitely agree with your premise in the video.
Here's the thing, the ceiling is much greater if you learn to control a power paddle and find touch. Similar to two-handed backhand, ceiling is much greater as a player if you have a good two-handed backhand. As an amateur it's hard as hell to control so you just give up on it. Much like a power paddle cuz everyone's too concerned about winning instead of giving it a few months.
Couldn't agree more with this! I don't think the Gen3 paddles (GB PPE, Joola Gen3, Vatic Oni) are good fits for anyone under 4.5 and are some of the last paddles I would ever recommend for the masses. Good video!
The Vatic Prism is a gen3 power paddle? 🤯
You mean Vatic Oni instead of prism right... Prism is one of the best paddles to recommend under 4.5 haha
@@GaryAu_PB Correct, I meant the Oni! The Prism is a pillow LOL I edited and corrected it
@@shawn6132 Typo, meant the Oni, fixed it
@@PickleballPursuit I know, just be an internet smart a$$
Just this morning I’ve been thinking about getting a more powerful paddle for playing in the summer here in GA. The last few weeks we have been in the 90s and I haven’t felt right with my drops. I’m using the same swing and it feels perfect but my 3rds have been just short. Using a ruby and x40 ball. It just seems like the soft ruby, with soft x40, in this heat is not a good match.
Switched to the Spartus Apollo recently. Really liking it. 👍
@pickleballstudio How do you categorize the Hurache-X Control +? I'm a huge fan of it but have found it getting hotter over time to a point where it's hard to say it's still all-court, but not near to a Gen3 level of 🔥
Thanks!
Angles win Pickleball. The real question should be, what paddle allows you to hit better angles? I also agree with Chris that there's a honeymoon phase with any new paddle. But, probably because your focus level is higher as your really focused on getting used to a new paddle, thus your technique is probably also better. Then after a week, your back to your old bad habits and that's when you can really see how the new paddle compares to your previous.
Brain your opinion the best paddles that can make angle shots easier
Im staying with your 6 zero all around paddle recommendation. Great paddle. As a rec player i realize if i hit a great shot under control for example at someones feet they're just as likely to miss it if it was going 2 mph slower than a power paddle.
Sounds logical. Except it does not reflect our experience. Have a few members of my family and all do better in games with the Joola Gen 3s. This includes one who is competitive at the 5.0 level. And one that is sub 3.0. And all others in between.
First of all, I kinda hate power paddles they are so hard to control. However, i dont think they ruin the game at all and i think that sentiment is from bitter people. Theres always a trade off with power and thats control. Most people who use power paddles that i know cant even hit hard than me with a Selkirk S2 just cuz i can take a much larger swing at the shot and keep it in. We honestly should just let the market decide what is optimal. If people cant control the power, it will naturally go out of favor. With that said, the Joola Gen 3s werent even that powerful and people were way over exaggerating. The only thing unfair about it was that it had really good dwell time and flex. It resulted in a paddle with top tier power and top tier spin and control. It was unheard of how balanced the paddle was. But all this sentiment about it being dangerous for the game was just bitterness from bad people. I had a much easier time controlling that paddle vs anything ive used before just because of the spin and flex.
I started with a LUXX and won several tournaments with it but I used some other paddles and enjoyed the extra power and pop I was able to get with them. I may be wrong but I feel that I will be able to end points earlier with a more powerful paddle. When I switched from straight control to a hybrid I was still able to have a good reset and drop game.
Did you switch to the amped pro air?
@@duycao1782 I did not. I love Selkirk's customer support but the spray on grit they use on their paddles has led me to shy away from their products. i play 6 days a week for at least 3 hours a session and wear through their paddles to fast
Yes, absolutely, one hundred percent. Power paddles in the amateurs are overrated. HOWEVER, the danger involved with power paddles continuing to get more and more powerful is not overstated.
It is overstated when people refer to being "body bagged" by a wiffleball. I have been hit many times by the ball at a high rate of speed and the only concern is to wear eye protection, which you should do regardless of the paddles being used.
Did you put any lead tape on your Volair Mach 2 Forza? Looking to buy it based on your recommendation for control. Great video.
I haven't so far. Not opposed to it, but haven't felt it needs it.
Love my Vatic pro flash. Plenty of power and enough control for a great price.
I’m not an amateur so power paddles are great for me. I can control them with spin thanks to tennis. I actually still use the joola gen 3 Magnus aside from the controversy around them. It’s by far my favorite paddle Iv ever played with. I have a one handed backhand so the shorter handle doesn’t affect me at all.
Well said!
I upgraded from the prism flash to the TKO-CX and I feel like I have more control with the TKO-CX. My guess is the prism flash was too light for me
I went from a Labs 002 to a DBD to the Mach 2 Forza and have encouraged anyone looking toi buy a new paddle to consider the 'standard' shape. Most people playing doubles don't need the extra inch of length as much as they need the extra inch of width
Chris, I just started pickleball 2 weeks ago and have only played a few games. The person who introduced me to the game only had straight wood paddles. Then, a local Pro Shop allows for loaning paddles for testing. I told the guy at the pro shop that at 60 years old, it's a bit hard for me to do fast deep bending. He suggested trying the Paddletek Reign Pro v3. Coming from a straight wooden paddle, I absolutely fell in love with this. However, I'm hearing everybody think that Paddletek makes crappy paddles. And I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't have purchased it.
I'm definitely not a banger, and I play fairly strong game at the kitchen line, with decent reflexes and accuracy. For just starting out, people say I'm doing fairly well and would rate me a 2.5 or 3.0 player.
I'm extremely confused on if I made a bad purchase or not. I would like to know what you think.
By the way - I also live in Minnesota!
Hey, I wouldn't worry about it too much. The Reign Pro v3 is fine. It might not be top of the top, but at 2.5 to 3.0, it's not going to make that big of a difference which paddle you're using (except for wood haha).
So, I wouldn't sweat it! Use it until you improve enough that you feel like upgrading makes more sense.
I have no issue controlling the gearbox pro. If you’re 4.0 or lower I can see it being an issue but it’s really not hard.
I'm a control guy myself. Please post that overhead lesson you had as my closing abilities are severely lacking when putting away a ball (talking about pickleball here).
PLEASE REPLY -
In my instance. I’m a very passive player, love the control game, love to dink, work a point and break peoples with angles.
I’ve ALWAYS used 14mms but can’t seem to put a ball away as hard as others because I simply don’t want to exert that much effort because when people do, it leads to errors. Im a scrawny guy, used to have wrist issues but now I don’t. I really feel I play better when I can let the paddle do the work. Of course, I’ll pop some stuff up every so often.
Is it worth it to try and dial in a new paddletek? I’m a paddle addict so chances are, I won’t stick for long lol.
Worth it is just dependent on the player and the time you're willing to put in.
Hard for me to say what's worth it for you. More often than not people would probably be better off fixing up their technique rather than looking for the paddle to fix it.
Of course, there are exceptions to that, but most of the time people aren't even fixing the technique that is leading to them not being able to put a ball away.
Anyone who disagrees with this is crazy. I went from the gearbox pro power to the new paddletek (still a power paddle) and the control difference is night and day and my game has elevated so much from making this switch
Not the same "internals" so I'm not surprised.
Which specific Paddletek did you purchase?
@@AnnMitt the new TKO-C 12.7mm
@@therealad4342
Thank you for the reply 👍🏻
I’m an avid Volair Mach 2 Forza user. I definitely play better but hits like pillow unless your technique is on point. I’m probably going to upgrade to an all court paddle. What I realized is you just have to slow down in general. Let the opponent commit errors…
I wanted to love the DBD 14mm but instead I love the Mach 2 Forza 16mm!! Honestly wish I would have discovered it before I bought the DBD. I can drive the ball just fine with the Volair.
Chris give me your top 3 control paddles -Great freaking take!!
Control paddles are tough, because there's basically an endless amount of them right now.
Some of the top ones at varying price points:
- Vatic Prism Flash 16mm
- Volair Forza Mach 2 16mm
- Selkirk Luxx Control Air
- PIKKL Hurricane Pro 16mm
- Tons of gen 1 paddles (you just sacrifice the sweet spot a bit).
I'm probably missing a few really obvious ones as well.
@@PickleballStudio Could you make a video specifically comparing relevant modern control paddles? I am curious about something more control oriented.
@@Aegizreal He does this in his most recent podcast
Yeah I totally agree with everything said here. Honestly it scares me to play against amateur players using out of control paddles. Pros can actually control this power where any regular player around who already swings as hard as they can does it with no intent of control. Starting with a control paddle and then working your way up after you develop a sense of feel for the game makes you a better player faster than someone who can just hit harder than everyone else.
Think of this from another angle for players who play tennis as well as PB, power paddle allows to get handle on drive shots and serves overheads right away so they could focus on offensive drops and then dinks so they could progress faster playing better opponents sooner
Hey Chris and Everybody, can someone tell me where can I find those paddle wall mounts? I need some of those urgently! Thanks 🙏🏻
Just some garage wall hooks from Amazon!
What do you think can better handle the speed/power of a Gen 3 Joola coming at you, another power paddle like the TKO-C or a control paddle like the volair?
I would think the paddle with a fast hand speed would be best.
Obviously a control paddle can better handle the speed and power.
Been searching for the best "weapon" to take on all the "bazookas" that are out there as well.
@@douglasmurdoch7247 I have a Ruby and it’s extremely hard to return well against joolas
@@bochman81 ruby should at least be decent for that. You might just need to drill and practice and improve. I suggest looking into a wide body paddle like the Volair Mach 2 forza to help.
As you move to the higher level (4.5+), you will have better hands and will control better the more power paddles. (Still don't think the gearbox will allow you to do that no matter how good your hands are. You still need some balance) I learnt the game with control paddles and appreciate the more power paddles, at the expense of a smaller sweet spot and control for better reach, put away power at the kitchen. Also if you are a right sided player, you may favor a control paddle no matter what level vs the left sided player who needs to be more aggressive.
I have played about 20 games with the Gen3 Tyson Joola. It was fun, but I agree, I play better, over-all, with my Six Zero Ruby. An All-court design is a more winning piece of gear, ime, yep. Your advice is sound, and folks should take it and run.
I'm in tears!
You mentioned filming. What kind of camera do you use ?
I use some fancier cameras, but an iPhone is more than enough for people to film their games and get some ideas.
I'm a senior who plays against 25 to 35 year old's, and my black ace is the only paddle that allows me to win speed up's at the net. Also need extra power for most other shots because their able to run everything down.
Do you like that Forza more than your old DBD?
I am torn between Hurrache Control + and Volair Mach 2 Forza - which one would you recommend?
Hurache has more power, Volair Mach 2 Forza 16mm is more control oriented.
Also, different shapes. Just depends on the game you want to play.
The hurache x control (not +) is wonderful
@@declan2253Kevlar?
Chris, You were actually playing with a widebody paddle and not a standard. Standard = 16x8. The Mach 2 Forza is 15.88x8.12. Technically a widebody, but not too far off from standard in this case. I loved my Mach 2 Forza, but I prefer the sweet spot just a bit further away from grip position. I tended to hit a lot of balls just above the sweet spot.
Your points are valid because they're well proven in Tennis. Advanced players who can generate their own power use control racquets. Power racquets (with big head size and are head heavy) are usually good for new players.
Tennis racquets are completely preference based, but the vast majority of pros today use racquets that would be considered power frames compared to 25 years ago where pros using 90 or 95 sq in was common. Most today use 98/100
But… didn’t Chris win 2 4.5 tourneys with power paddles? Gearbox and Gen 3 Hyperion? All jokes aside I agree, being able to sacrifice your soft game for more power seems like a huge disadvantage for most people for sure. It did for me big time. That’s why I switched to the mach2 forza
Hey Chris what are your thoughts on the Hyperion John’s C2?
Clearly I'm not Chris, but I have the 16mm Hyperion C2. It is a solid all court paddle. My current preference is the 16mm Six Zero Ruby due to the more muted feel on contact.
I haven't hit it much. Only got to hit it for 5 min at a shop ages ago. Don't have one myself.
Mach 2 Forza is widebody, not standard shape. Standard would be 16x8, aka Ronbus Pulsar R2 FX or Joola Scorpeus.
I’m to the point where I want more control than the DBD which is wild to think
Enjoyed this one. I’m gonna start playing tournaments and I’m showing up fat.
What are you all doing with your old paddles as you upgrade to the latest and greatest?
Using a power paddle is like going back to a dirty ex… yes she does all the fun dirty things you love but she’s hard to control and ultimately not good for you 😅
😂
Yuck
Yep….and I have three of them.
Power paddles can hit the ball long and be hard to dink and drop. I like control over power. I think resetting is much easier too. Sometimes just dodging a hard hit ball that is going out is the best strategy.
That was the funniest pickleball comment ever !
Paddles Paddles Paddles
So you’re saying cancel my orders for the 3 power paddles I just bought?? 😂😅
Everyone I saw and knew who got a gen3 played worse, but they were just beaming about their new paddle. Personally I didnt think they were coming off that hot, but alot more spin.
I agree that the Joola gen 3's are not as "hot" as many other paddles, however I play much better with them
Augie Gu is a pro using a control paddle... Vatic Prism V7.
👏
Now insert all court hybrid paddles …
The DURA melted today in AZ… haha 109
No doubt. Most people should not use a power paddle.
Im just starting to find that hitting the weight room gives you more power. Has anyone else had a similar experience or is this just a new discovery I figured out?
lol. Obviously being stronger lets you hit harder
@douglasmurdoch7247 that's a fallacy. Paddle head speed is what creates power assuming paddle mass is the same. Being muscle bound can hurt your game if it reduces your flexibility or inhibits range of motion. Paddle head speed is based on technique and muscle fiber.
@@sbinsdca and where do you think the paddle head speed is coming from? There’s a big difference being “muscle bound” in the steroid, body builder builder sense, just being strong. A stronger person is going to hit harder than a weaker person. Speed IS power. Power IS speed. Could you hit the ball as soft as you can by hitting it as fast as you can? No. Could you hit the ball as hard as you can by hitting it as slow as you can? No. Power and speed are one when you’re swinging through the ball, and more strength equals more paddle speed equals more power.
Hitting the weights is the only thing keeping me on the court. Injury prevention is key, and being strong can prevent injuries from happening. Also playing a lot of pickleball wastes away my body like as if I was stranded at sea. Lose so much muscle mass. Gotta hit the weights AND cardio, plyometric, flexibility mobility work.. Not to look like a bodybuilder but to stay strong and durable. Your diet affects how much mass you gain along with steroids and other supplements
@@douglasmurdoch7247 it isn't created from lifting weights
Can’t miss hard enough
They are overrated, and anybody that got the paddles and used them understood that..... and a big part of that misunderstanding rest with the reviewers going on ad nauseam about power paddles. I understand the need to generate views/traffic..... but own it..... all of you guys are at the core of making power the big thing that has really turned into a mess. Of course, all of us that watch and listen bought a ticket for the ride!
The Joola Gen3 Magnus 14mm wasn't overrated, it was actually spectacular - but I turned it in for a refund.
You should have stuck to 3.5 at best.
I’ll take an elongated, heavy, 15-16mm paddle ANY day…
Pros using power paddles could be paintjobs - Gen 2 with Gen 3 clothes. Done to sell paddles same as in tennis! If you see the pros who had to drop their Joola Gen 3s. Nothing aboit their strikes or power had changed because they weren't using Gen 3s to begin with!
As a beginner I started out with the neonic force & couldnt keep the ball in play. Just now bought a j2k, and man did my game improve drastically. I dont hit nearly as many balls out with the j2k vs the neonic.
Sounds like we will just always see the same type/style of players on the court the game we can say has evolved enough that this is good enough. And before I hear another crap about maintaining integrity of the sport, go back and re-read how the paddles and even the balls have evolved to how fast the game has gotten.
Skill issue. Soft guys are made for soft paddles and that’s okay Chris!!
Jesus Christ we get it. You don’t want new players buying power paddles and then developing a solid power game that your baby cake control paddle can’t keep up with.
You missed the point
@@sbinsdca no you missed the point. I’m a PPE player 😎
@@BennyBedTime not the point of the video
@@sbinsdca thank you so much for the feedback.
It would be nice if they take the power away from all paddles, so more dink rallies and skill
Change the "spin restrictions"! More spin on a ball would make the game better.
@@kimleith1378there are no spin restrictions. The only restriction affecting spin is the surface material.
@@sbinsdca More grit= more spin. Change the "grit" limit so shaping the ball gets more creative.
@@kimleith1378 you can also get more spin from technique.
@@sbinsdca Agreed. I have paddles with every face material. Smooth as glass, PU paint, all the peel ply Carbon Fiber combos. I can spin my Walnut faced paddle with technique.
Surprise... Mr. Selkirk doesn't like power paddles. Anyone wonder why Selkirk isn't even attempted a new power paddle rather than just reskinning the ancient power air?
In what world am I Mr. Selkirk? 😂 I've consistently criticized them for behind behind the times.
You missed the entire point of the video.
@@PickleballStudio I don't think he's calling you Mr. Selkirk. He's just referring to Selkirk, the company, as Mr. Selkirk... that they don't make power paddles at all.
@@PickleballStudio Well, the real host of the show would never be a shill for Selkirk 🤣
You got will and Chris confused. Will is the host of of pbstudio and used to work for Selkirk. Chris is the cohost and has never worked for Selkirk and has criticized them on occasion. (Also just jokes I know who the host is… it’s Chris’s brother)
Mr. Selkirk? What are you talking about. Are you confusing him with Will? And not even Will works for Selkirk anymore.