i somehow always liked the MK4 Supra bone stock a lot more than custom ones. Some non stock supras look nice in their own way but i always gravitate towards the stock ones. They look great as they are, Very smooth, Nice lines, Not too aggressive but very recognizable non the less. They don't really need to be anything else.
The new GR86/BRZ actually is pretty quick. It can keep up with a lot more expensive high HP cars on the track. Still lacking in straight line speed but its a momentum car after all.
@@kylepodolak4336 That reminds me of people complaining about "There's no power in the lower revs" Like that's totally how engines work. Who the hell races a car outside of its powerband??????
i think there's something wrong with the supra (a boost leak, for example), because at speed this much power difference would manifest itself. i don't think drag coefficient differs too much, nor should the frontal area, so 100 hp more would be very apparent, but supra isn't gaining on the gr, while it just must.
Thanks for taking good care of my GR86 Mat. Was a great day out, and as expected the cars been faultless, and continues to get better and better every day!
Carwow are slowing becoming the new top gear with Ben now driving in these drag races. You guys are so close to 8 million and not far of overtaking top gear in terms of subscribers!
The problem with these comparisons is that the condition of the older car is always going to be an unknown quantity. Unless it's part of a heritage fleet that's been renewing the mechanicals & not just the shiny bits then the new press car is generally going to be quicker.
@@Nfs-HP-Enjoyer yeah plus they hit him with all the broken cars like that M5 last time out. The fact that supra never walked the GR down at 70mph shows it wasn't exactly the freshest example. Plus Ben won't do false starts because he's an actual Racing driver and it's bred into him not to do that as its an instant disqualification. Mat would get disqualified at santa pod too he pre launches hoping the car reacts as the arms drop (all modern cars have a lag at launch) but you get kicked for that anytime reaction times and staging comes into the equation. Mat would get a fright even at a Run-what-you-Brung day at Santa Pod. RUclipsrs are youtubers not drag racers.
Damn. That's like winning the lottery. All the older Supras I've seen have been defiled. I was also looking at used R35s, but most of the reasonably priced ones were defiled too. None stock.
I LOVE my GR86 - it is an absolute blast but one of the first things I had to do was get rid of the artificial engine noise in the cabin - the speaker controller is right above/behind the glove box
@@bigduphusaj162 If I was worried about that I wouldn't have bought it - not a straight line car. It is such a blast to drive, had it just over a year and haven't regretted the purchase once.
@@TKTytu23 dont worry this guys a supra fanboy. Any comment of someone liking the 86 he tries to shut down and come up with some bs about it losing to something else. If he knew anything about cars he wouldn't even bring up that bag of shit rx8
Yesss fuck mk4 over hyped overrated the only good thing is the engine but only when modified people will defend this thing with their whole existence lol literal overpriced rust buckets
It's becoming a rare sight to see iconic 90's JDM sport cars that are stock and in great condition. It was a great decade for Japanese car brands to produce fun, sport cars. They prove that you don't need a V8 or 400+ horsepower to make a fun, iconic vehicle. Supra, NSX, Skyline GTR, RX-7, 3000GT, and more. Timeless classic cars.
That Supra is the same blue that my 1995 UK spec Celica GT-FOUR was, aaah memories. I bet my Celica would be worth a fair bit too these days. Man I so miss that car.
@@alicekim7351 I'm not a genZ kid that films illegal races. Sounds like you can't handle the fact that a few near 20yr old sports cars put out about the same . Stick on a proper older dyno SAE and you'd get a shock at how low all the HP ratings are compared to what people claim especially this channel and the 2-bob laptop ran dyno garage they used in previous vids. Modern dynos are a complete joke they are a torque measuring device and its all algorithms to get any other figure, the algorithms are a different standard to old and the bhp figures nowadays are vastly inflated. GR has about 228-231 crank 196-198 at wheels SAE. I think I should know since I own the place that had them on the older dyojet machines. Cheers Alice and enjoy your Forza kid 🍻
Great vid and all once more but I got a suggestion for the future: I would like the countdown to change or be made more clear for guests.. You see Ben is reacting to the drop of the hands while Matt is just timing his launch to the 1,2,3 (sometimes quite a bit earlier too 🤫). I think it should be reactive like in F1. The lights don't go out at a predetermined time.
Je d is right. That's the voice of one of the original countdown employees from years ago. They just dub over the current countdown employees voices with hers.
@@Zzyyxx22 sure, I haven't noticed that. But like I said in my original comment I judged based on the hand movements not the voice. And every time there is a race with Ben, Mat goes earlier. Even in newer vids. Now it doesn't matter who's at fault, this isn't a real competition. They just need to clear it out between themselves.
Mat definitely gets a bit of a jump every time, but I doubt it would change the outcome. They're touting stock BHP figures from thirty years ago. Put that car on a dyno and prepare to be disappointed.
Having driven a TT Supra yesterday, the reason I loved it was the excitement when the second turbo comes in at 4,000 rpm but it’s also the reason it is losing in the wet. Still, I’d rather have the excitement than modern turbo engines that feel N/A with their linear delivery!
I remember turbo MKIV supras being low to mid 13 second cars stock. I get the conditions are not ideal here, but this poor thing has to be so down on power. Caranddriver has it @ 13.1 (with their very generous rollout lol). I demand a rematch for us old guys!
@@BlackMagicStudio224 what? You can't ring a supra it's a unibody mate. It would snap in half the second you hit a pothole if you even tried. It was conventional chassis cars that were getting ringed back in the day.
In 1998 I made a 13.36 pass at the track bone stock on crap tires. Fast forward to 2010 (at TX2K), the same car with just a downpipe, exhaust, boost controller (no tune), and FMIC on 7 year old rotted drag radials ran a 10.98@125. Of course this was on dry surfaces. I'd wreck my sh@t in the wet.
Thank you for drag racing a stock Supra & not one that’s been modified off its t-i-t-s. You can tell that the engine surely has lost a bit of juice over the years. The fact that the Stig calls the GR86 a “rocketship” just makes me feel like my car (not a 86) is so much faster than it is. I would love to see how this new GR86 would go against a previous gen VA WRX or WRX STi as the UK no longer gets the WRX anymore.
There are numerous people beneath The Stig persona over the years with Ben being the most popular out of them He's the second Stig and the first one to appear with white overalls (the very first Stig was using black overalls)
If you're interested look at car throttles podcast they did with Ben Collins. It explains how he got rec9gnised and the secret behind the stig. It's good.
It's hard to put down the power if you have too much of it for the conditions and turbo cars have that swell of torque that hits when the turbo suddenly reaches peak efficiency, which makes it hard to make use of the power in wet conditions. Even my old '18 Q50RS AWD struggled with traction in the wet, so it's not hard to see why the RWD Supra is struggling here. The GR86 has a great balance of power/weight. On dry ground no doubt this would have worked out a lot differently but the GR86 is still very impressive for how "little" power it actually has.
Good balanced comment. The GR86 is benefiting from much newer tech whereas the Supra is stock trying to live up to the legend everyone thinks it is. Love the Supra for its looks and the legendary tuning potential, but it's foolish to think newer cars and tech haven't surpassed it. Just a shame the Gen 5 is a Z4 with a body kit.
@@chriswattie3392 they should have got subaru to make the new Supra, and then used a toyota V6 engine. Like a BRZ/GR86 on steroids. For the interior they could have just used the Lexus people. That would have been a better new Supra, and a more 'Toyota' Supra (since Subaru and Toyota have ownership stakes in one another, and Lexus is obviously Toyota), but I'm just talking crap really.
@@Jez4prez1 that would be one way to keep it 100% Toyota but to people who grew up loving the Supra, it’s blasphemous to use anything but a straight 6 engine. I personally do not find Toyota V6 engines very inspiring so I’m glad they didn’t use the 3.5. With the budget they were given, partnering with BMW was the best way to build it with an I-6 and keep the traditional fan base mostly happy. They have been very solid cars so far, and the B58 has actually proven to be dead on reliable since it came out in 2015, even now that it’s been in use for several years. Like a lot of Supra fans I also wish Toyota would have resurrected the 2JZ but the B58 is the next best thing, and it has some big advantages over the 2JZ in that it weighs less and gets far better fuel economy, which is a bonus.
@@chriswattie3392 The GR86 got destroyed from the rolling race @ 8:48 and 10:34 which lessens the terrible wet conditions from a dig. I was around in 1993 when the Supra came out and read all the old magazine comparisons. It is a legend. Back then it beat the best Corvette and 911 Turbo and could out handle the Ferrari 512TR.
Honestly a choice to choose between the two but I'd lean towards the supra because it's pure old school 100% Toyota!! Ben Collins!! Even after all these years you still the man! Great job Mat as always!
Nobody that knew anything about cars would even consider the GR86 compared to older Supra. That's a ridiculous comparison the old Supra is an all time legend.
I suspect something is wrong with that Supra. There's no way it wouldn't be able to reel in a GR86 when on boost and when the wheels have traction. Perhaps there's a boost leak somewhere, that happened to my old Chaser with a turbo 1JZ, a tiny hole in the stock piping resulted in a massive reduction of horsepower.
I don't think so... in stock form the Supra was always meh down low without RPM. That 3rd gear pull was the best representation of it and unless they did a high rpm launch with plenty of traction it was going to struggle.
Really goes to show how much cars have advanced and improved over the years. Even your normal passenger cars nowadays are quite quick with more efficient, but powerful engines, especially ones that are turbocharged. On any day of the year, I'd still take the old school stuff. Simpler to work on, easier to diagnose, and more rewarding to drive and modify.
@@societyisboring Lemme guess you were born after the year 2000. It wasn't slow stock. The performance of a stock MK4 Turbo today is the same as the new Civic Type R, Golf R or Corolla GR.
The standing drag race didn't prove anything. Look how wet the road was. They both ran bad 1/4 times with the Supra running a worse time of 15.2 sec compared to the usual low 13's that they run in dry conditions. Go look at the roll race again @ 8:48 and 10:34 and see how hard the Supra pulled away from the GR86.
The new GR 86 looks sexy, I just wish more was imported to the UK, because we would get a chance at least to buy a second hand one, since not ALL people will probably like the car due to not being a "speed demon" type sports car.
@@purwantiallan5089Maybe, but they were much more expensive cars. If you adjust for inflation, the FD RX-7 was sold for around 32K in 1993… adjusted for inflation that is more than 69K… the MK4 Supra turbo had an MSRP of 38K in 97’. Adjusted for inflation that’s around 74k. The GR 86 is a 33K car in 2024… you get so much car for the money… and toss in an HKS turbo for about 6K and for much less money you will smoke the RX7 and the MKIV Supra for way less money.
Ugh! I love these supras but back in high school I had a Camry hybrid 2012 and my rich priveliged friend had the N/A Supra. I actually was neck and neck with him to 60 when he slowly began to pull on me! Those midsize hybrids are no joke lol
The new GR86 is surprisingly quick, but I wonder what happened with the Supra. It was capable of high 13s when new. Maybe it needs maintenance, or the rain really hurt its performance, or a combo of both.
Mk IV supra also has some mods im sure. Exhaust alone while minimal decreases weight + adds small amount of power. I wonder if this has offset the losses from the car being 30 years old though
Not a small amount of power. Mine in standard form made 185kw, and 240kw with a catback exhaust. 280kw with a fmic and a full exhaust system. Supra gains big with small mods up to about 280kw. I mostly blame the tires and the wet surface for the poor performance. It was 2 seconds slower than it should have been.
This is the magic of good gearing and no unnecessary weight. The supra has extremely long gears and is closer in weight to Camarro. 330PS at the wheels or not it's not tuned for what it has. I doubt the Supra is in good condition but it's sad to see so many people incapable of seeing how much overall tuning matters more than than what your max number is.
About 20 years ago my dad got a 1990 supra 3L twin turbo. I loved it as a kid. Any car that overtook my dad while he was just cruising I would say you can't let them do that and he would... go back past them at an appropriate and safe speed 😉🤣
Reading that made me chuckle. What an enabler. 😄 I had two turbos back in '04. One was a stock '87 with HKS intake and downpipe and an A'PEXi exhaust (can't remember the model). It was slow even with the wastegate washer mod but sounded really nice. The other was a built '88 with a 60-1 turbo, forged internals, A'PEXi S-AFC/VPC combo and A'PEXi GT SPEC exhaust. It put out 530 WHP at 26 PSI and sounded very throaty. I'll always have a void for the sound of the 7M-GTE and always miss those cars. Having the roof off felt so nice, too.
@@JJ-df4kx I was born in 89 and I remember it being 1 year off and I'm almost certain it was a H reg. It probably would have been an 89 but registered in 1990 for the H reg 🤷♂️
@@jamm8284 the mk3 has the 7mgte, 3.0 single turbo, 1ggte, 2.0 twin turbo, 1jzgte, 2.5 twin turbo and 3.0 and 2.0 non turbo engines. It’s only plausible if you dad swapped in a 2jzgte 3.0 twin turbo from a mk4🙃 it probably was a 1990 single turbo 7mgte. Most of them have that engine.
@@purwantiallan5089 r34 GTR, honda nsx.......much better cars than the supra. Supra is a drag beast, it would get walked by those other two around a track. To bad fast and the furious blinded you
@@subiesnacks8446 good one, NSX was a twitchy mess needed kept on song was like a 600cc sportbike chasing the high RPM to get it moving. R34 was a safe option but a bit wooden to drive and lunged to the left all over the place it was very lungey. RX7 was the best handling of the lot and the best to drive then Supra but supras even back then they chipped them at first they hit 400+ just with a refresh or chip and that was only like £80 at the time. Much more responsive and they smashed any stock Japanese car at the time at 400bhp. It needed a 350+bhp cossie to take them down at the time. E36 M3 evo was about the next fastest thing from the showroom and the Supras walked away from them at about 70mph
Actual racing drivers don't do false starts as it's instant disqualification plus actual drag racing events time your reaction time so Mat would be instantly disqualified from every proper drag event based on the fact he pre-dumps brakes and clutches early to take up the lag in the launch modes all modern cars have. Mat is a youtube guy who invented his own starting method where you're allowed to go right as the hands drop rather than the traditional hands dropping being the reaction time itself so people knew who jumped the start. Learn wtf you are talking about you casuals
Supra fanboy here, they used to run mid to high 13sec 1/4miles so it must be tired. But have to give it to the gr86, sounds like an exotic fridge but is quick…. However, still shows just how quick the supra is in its old age. Such strong top end acceleration which in a roll race which most of us do on the street (at least in Aus) is where it shines :)
I own a 1993 RZ Turbo Automatic Supra, and honestly, it's extremely rare to find such a stock performance Supra these days like the one in this video. Even my fairly stock Automatic Supra makes 400+hp and that's just with the boost turned up on the stock twins that have been high flowed. Most people rip off the twins, put a big single turbo and make much more power.
Question: was the performance sats of the Mk4 Supra the stock stats or is it the stats in its current state. I'm sure I've heard that power declines with age and its 30 years old. If its the stock stats it would be interesting to get it dyno-ed.
@@heroesofthelandstrasse true, IF the vehicle is maintained 100%. Unfortunately, a 30 year old turbo car is likely to have a boost leak, coil pack issues, or something else. Usually it's an easy fix. The fact this one still has the original rubber intercooler hoses begs for issues. Mine were already hard and rotting when I replaced them with aluminum pipes back in 1999. This Supra most likely needs some of those easy fixes.
@@purwantiallan5089 the point is Jeremy Clarkson hates anything that is American. It's for the contrast to get laughs out of it. If you had watched old top gear show you'd know.
I remember Best Motoring getting high 12s in the 1/4 mile from a Supra turbo and this one is struggling to get into the 14s. There must be something wrong with that car.
Car and Driver got: 0-60 in 4.6s and the 1/4 in 13.3s @ 108mph. It was the quickest of 8 sports cars they compared it at the time, including a Corvette ZR1 and Porsche 924.
Jap Spec 280, UK Spec 320… this looks like a UK model but seemed to perform very much around the 280 though? Likely longer gear ratios too, after all it was a GT car of its time.
@@mrnicktoyou you for real? A fat half system makes the car run worse unless it's had the fueling changed and modern tyre technology is only really moved on in braking and cornering some of the drag tyres used today have been about since the 90s especially big tyre pro-stock and funny & top fuellers. Bike tyre tech has far put advanced car tyre tech for a start to and that's coming from an engineer in the michelin vid about modern car tyre tech.
@@brightbaah8659 yes but that dosent prove it got destroyed ? It lost drag race due to traction issues while 86 got the better launch. The old girl ate the 86 for lunch in a roll in which the faster car wins
UK Spec Supras rarely make 320 BHP rating on a dyno, 290-305 is more the norm. Plus they are pigs at 1600+ KG with all the options without driver, the 1490 KG figure bandied around on the internet is for a no options JDM model and possibly dry weight to boot ...
Ben is launching when the arms reach down, wheras Matt launches as soon as they start to go down. That gives Matt a slight advantage. You have to specify some standard criteria Matt, give my guy Ben a chance
Some facts for anyone wondering why the supra didnt seem fast: On same dyno: MK4 supra stock whp is about 280 GR86 stock whp is about 225. Supra weight is about 3400 GR86 weight is about 2800 Supra 12.1:1 lbs-to-hp GR86 12.4 lbs-to-hp So they are very close. But to add to the GR86's acceleration, it also has shorter gearing.
Which would you choose - the all-new GR86, or the classic Supra? VOTE below!
VOTE: GR86!
VOTE: Supra!
SUPRA!!!
New is new ✌️
Il vote the old supra
The fact they found a Mk4 that didn't make 1000hp is amazing
I know, right. They either 1000+hp or $100k+
i somehow always liked the MK4 Supra bone stock a lot more than custom ones. Some non stock supras look nice in their own way but i always gravitate towards the stock ones. They look great as they are, Very smooth, Nice lines, Not too aggressive but very recognizable non the less.
They don't really need to be anything else.
Its not that hard there are plenty of stock supras in japan the hard part is to find 1 in the UK
the bone stock mk4 supra looks amazing
🤣🤣🤣🗑🗑🗑
That airplane grease excuse was hilarious 😂
😂😂😂😂
Ben Collins is absolute savage! TOP Guest of CARWOW! (Y)
@@stingererscale5193 agree bro.
Stop spoiling!
Racing driver always have the best excuses
The new GR86/BRZ actually is pretty quick. It can keep up with a lot more expensive high HP cars on the track. Still lacking in straight line speed but its a momentum car after all.
@Christopher Holden it really moves after 5k
And I heard the BRZ have STi Version which is Awd BRZ
@@kylepodolak4336 That reminds me of people complaining about "There's no power in the lower revs"
Like that's totally how engines work.
Who the hell races a car outside of its powerband??????
I'd put it against my 2016 5.0 F150
@@RyuusanFT86 americans at stoplights lol
The GR86 winning those races...with less horsepower shows how much technology has advanced since the 90s
It really is the perfect example of the figures aren't everything
i think there's something wrong with the supra (a boost leak, for example), because at speed this much power difference would manifest itself. i don't think drag coefficient differs too much, nor should the frontal area, so 100 hp more would be very apparent, but supra isn't gaining on the gr, while it just must.
Supra needs a real driver. It’s not the technology. Dude couldn’t launch the car
The laws of physics don't tend to change over time. The Supra is a MUCH faster car if it's working correctly. This one isn't.
@@marcevensauguste bro it's stock cry harder if it was modified he'd win
"Never thought I would be giving the Stig a driving lesson" - Mat Watson 2023
Achievement accomplished Mat, well done!
Ok BOOMER.. Collins need to F off.. He’s perfected
🖤
I don't think so, Mat just had a better car, nothing else. He didn't give any proof to be a better driver.
@@Isha048 Matt Watson is already better actually.
There are a few races with Ben around on this channel which clearly shows that drag-races and gear-shifts are not the strong point of an elderly Stig.
Supra kids when a gr86 beats a Supra 😡🤬
Thanks for taking good care of my GR86 Mat. Was a great day out, and as expected the cars been faultless, and continues to get better and better every day!
Thanks for letting him use them ✌️
@@davey999 Happy to be of service, great to help out with good content 🙂
hey is the rev limiter in your car was stock or did you tune it for that
@@OmgTheyKilledKenny101 Car was completely stock in that video mate, same as the Supra 🙂
@@S18RSG ok thank you the rev limiter is so cool 😎
Carwow are slowing becoming the new top gear with Ben now driving in these drag races. You guys are so close to 8 million and not far of overtaking top gear in terms of subscribers!
@Quizzical have you heard of the grand tour lmao
Imagine caring about someone elses subscriber count 🤣🤡
Sadly Ben won't race there anymore as he said, in case he lost the race..
@Quizzical no they cheesy AF
@@PrivacyEnt i heard it.
Ben's perfect in his role. Love his behaviour and character. Great work Mat & CWow Team, really remarkable.
I definitely want to see this standing race again in the dry.
Have to get out of England
So would I.
Gr 86 wins
Ben can’t drive man
@@totov7673 A manual twinturbo Supra like this have lsd from factory.
The problem with these comparisons is that the condition of the older car is always going to be an unknown quantity.
Unless it's part of a heritage fleet that's been renewing the mechanicals & not just the shiny bits then the new press car is generally going to be quicker.
3:19 Drag 1
4:45 Drag 2
7:04 Roll 1
8:48 Roll 2
10:28 Roll 3
legend
goat
🐐
The hero we needed
Didn't need a video this short time stamped and I just skip forward 10s by double tapping on the screen for ease of use to avoid watching sponsors.
I love Ben as an edition to the team. He's a true legend
He drives manual gear cars better than others
@@Nfs-HP-Enjoyer yeah plus they hit him with all the broken cars like that M5 last time out. The fact that supra never walked the GR down at 70mph shows it wasn't exactly the freshest example. Plus Ben won't do false starts because he's an actual Racing driver and it's bred into him not to do that as its an instant disqualification. Mat would get disqualified at santa pod too he pre launches hoping the car reacts as the arms drop (all modern cars have a lag at launch) but you get kicked for that anytime reaction times and staging comes into the equation. Mat would get a fright even at a Run-what-you-Brung day at Santa Pod. RUclipsrs are youtubers not drag racers.
@@bigduphusaj162 i am reading allat🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️
Edition lol
addition*
Great to see The Stig back on our screen! I'll be following Ben on his channel for sure...
The kind of races we would never get enough of watching.. thanks mat
I have had enough of drag races, personally.
@@a_single_white_female for me i never had enough with these amazing drag races.
We absolutely need more of this dude on the channel. He's hilarious
Would love to see both of these cars on a Dyno, I wonder if the old Supra is down on power.
Ben is such a brilliant addition to car wow hope he continues working with you!!!
it would be interesting to do the drag race, then put the cars on the dyno, to check the announced power figures
👍
Yeah my guess is that the GR86 has been underrated (as shown by many dyno tests) and the Supra has lost some power over time
Supra most likely has a boost leak. No way it’s that slow. 😂
@Angel 🇺🇦 right? 15 second plus quarter mile? No way it's making stock figures
@@angelgjr1999 Unfortunately it is that slow. The MK4 Supras aren’t that fast stock.
My parents have a UK Supra Twin Turbo, 1995 owned since 1996, only 55,000 miles and been garaged since 2009!
Damn. That's like winning the lottery. All the older Supras I've seen have been defiled. I was also looking at used R35s, but most of the reasonably priced ones were defiled too. None stock.
The look on Mat's face about upcoming drag races tells you we are in for some awesome drag races ahead.
Yep. What about a drag race between 1990s DTM vs 2022 DTM GT3 Cars?
I LOVE my GR86 - it is an absolute blast but one of the first things I had to do was get rid of the artificial engine noise in the cabin - the speaker controller is right above/behind the glove box
Gets whipped on track and road by an old RX8 mate.
@@bigduphusaj162 If I was worried about that I wouldn't have bought it - not a straight line car. It is such a blast to drive, had it just over a year and haven't regretted the purchase once.
@@TKTytu23 yeah they are decent enough I won't argue. Just expected a hit more I can get a newer MX5 around the B-roads here faster.
@@TKTytu23 dont worry this guys a supra fanboy. Any comment of someone liking the 86 he tries to shut down and come up with some bs about it losing to something else. If he knew anything about cars he wouldn't even bring up that bag of shit rx8
@@bigduphusaj162
There are over a hundred things about driving that make the experience rewarding and not self destructing is one of them.
The new GR86 has a bit of Mitsubishi FTO vibe from the back view, looks amazing!
The older 86s look better
The 2015 86 looks like a femboy car. The AE86 is obviously the only better looking one.@@maggaveli6764
For 5 drag races Matt been saying "we got something coming up don't wanna miss" well I'm waiting Matt
Come on, Supra isn't something you don't wanna miss? :P
just to get subs as he knows they upload a lot of utter crap content apart from the drag races and reviews
@@manilove2pwn well drag races and reviews represent about 85% of Carwow’s channel so…
I'm hoping someone's gonna lend Carwow a Jesko or AMG One.
@@remino7779 remino777, the 2022 GR86 imo still miles below the 1997 Supra and even Pulsar GTi-R.
14 year olds have been waiting to see a 30 year old Supra shitbox on this channel forever. Good job carwow. You made it happen again 👌👍
Yesss fuck mk4 over hyped overrated the only good thing is the engine but only when modified people will defend this thing with their whole existence lol literal overpriced rust buckets
It's becoming a rare sight to see iconic 90's JDM sport cars that are stock and in great condition. It was a great decade for Japanese car brands to produce fun, sport cars. They prove that you don't need a V8 or 400+ horsepower to make a fun, iconic vehicle. Supra, NSX, Skyline GTR, RX-7, 3000GT, and more. Timeless classic cars.
That Supra is the same blue that my 1995 UK spec Celica GT-FOUR was, aaah memories. I bet my Celica would be worth a fair bit too these days. Man I so miss that car.
Yes. Dont forget the Lancia Delta and the detuned Delta S4.
The GR86 actually has about 245-250hp when checking dyno videos and doing whp conversion to crank hp, they are great cars for that price
The GR86 also has similar bhp to Toyota MR-2.
BS my Rx8 GT 231 walked away from them about 70mph. Multiple different ones so no fluke and that was only 189 at the wheel
@@bigduphusaj162 should upload to your channel and show us
@@bigduphusaj162 maybe GT86, but not GR86.
@@alicekim7351 I'm not a genZ kid that films illegal races. Sounds like you can't handle the fact that a few near 20yr old sports cars put out about the same . Stick on a proper older dyno SAE and you'd get a shock at how low all the HP ratings are compared to what people claim especially this channel and the 2-bob laptop ran dyno garage they used in previous vids. Modern dynos are a complete joke they are a torque measuring device and its all algorithms to get any other figure, the algorithms are a different standard to old and the bhp figures nowadays are vastly inflated. GR has about 228-231 crank 196-198 at wheels SAE. I think I should know since I own the place that had them on the older dyojet machines. Cheers Alice and enjoy your Forza kid 🍻
Would love if car wow did drags and also timed laps around a circuit with some corners. That’s where it’d be great to see these cars perform
this.
Damn who would lend a supra for YT drag?
the supra would get wiped by pretty much anything in a circuit, my fucking baja turbo can corner harder than a mk4 lmao
Baja turbo? What is that?
@@jmmch3358 subaru baja turbo
Mat's races are so unique and amazing, I always love them.
Would be nice to blend the drag racing series to the dyno series for a special video.
Yep. Maybe in June 2023.
Thanks for coming Ben. It was nice to see you on a show again. Sorry you have to leave. lol
Great vid and all once more but I got a suggestion for the future: I would like the countdown to change or be made more clear for guests.. You see Ben is reacting to the drop of the hands while Matt is just timing his launch to the 1,2,3 (sometimes quite a bit earlier too 🤫). I think it should be reactive like in F1. The lights don't go out at a predetermined time.
I think The 3 2 1 is edited over the top Mat doesn’t hear that. I don’t think it’s the same person starting each race but it’s always the same voice.
Je d is right. That's the voice of one of the original countdown employees from years ago. They just dub over the current countdown employees voices with hers.
@@Zzyyxx22 sure, I haven't noticed that. But like I said in my original comment I judged based on the hand movements not the voice. And every time there is a race with Ben, Mat goes earlier. Even in newer vids. Now it doesn't matter who's at fault, this isn't a real competition. They just need to clear it out between themselves.
Mat definitely gets a bit of a jump every time, but I doubt it would change the outcome. They're touting stock BHP figures from thirty years ago. Put that car on a dyno and prepare to be disappointed.
This is the perfect combination thanks Matt
Having driven a TT Supra yesterday, the reason I loved it was the excitement when the second turbo comes in at 4,000 rpm but it’s also the reason it is losing in the wet. Still, I’d rather have the excitement than modern turbo engines that feel N/A with their linear delivery!
I can’t believe we just saw a person who knows how to rev a gr86
Yep. Revving em up.
Just gas it
Lol
Massive fan of the videos with stig royalty! More genuine banter and interactions on Carwow than any of the new Top Gear series
The two of you and Yianni should take over Top Gear on BBC. That dynamic would make it worthwhile watching again
Ben is great, hope to see him in more of these
I remember turbo MKIV supras being low to mid 13 second cars stock. I get the conditions are not ideal here, but this poor thing has to be so down on power. Caranddriver has it @ 13.1 (with their very generous rollout lol). I demand a rematch for us old guys!
I think the press cars were ringers if I remember the old tale correctly
@@BlackMagicStudio224 what? You can't ring a supra it's a unibody mate. It would snap in half the second you hit a pothole if you even tried. It was conventional chassis cars that were getting ringed back in the day.
In 1998 I made a 13.36 pass at the track bone stock on crap tires. Fast forward to 2010 (at TX2K), the same car with just a downpipe, exhaust, boost controller (no tune), and FMIC on 7 year old rotted drag radials ran a 10.98@125. Of course this was on dry surfaces. I'd wreck my sh@t in the wet.
@@bigduphusaj162 what do you mean by "ringers"
@@NextInLine008 A ringer is a stolen car with "legitimate" VIN tags. Usually shared by a group of criminals.
Ben Collins one of my favourite understated and underrated drivers, raced against him many moons ago in the British GT Championship.
That supra sounds sweet! I'm so tired of hearing over-tuned unnecessarily loud supras. This is a breath of fresh air, it's great!
@suprarcjpop545 Yes. But it sounds so tame that it feels smooth on my ears.
GR86 looks great. Nice 👌👏
Yep.
@@conor7154 Wich one??
Thank you for drag racing a stock Supra & not one that’s been modified off its t-i-t-s. You can tell that the engine surely has lost a bit of juice over the years. The fact that the Stig calls the GR86 a “rocketship” just makes me feel like my car (not a 86) is so much faster than it is.
I would love to see how this new GR86 would go against a previous gen VA WRX or WRX STi as the UK no longer gets the WRX anymore.
This is the very first time in my life finding out the identity of The Stig..... I never knew they were publicly known.
there were many stigs over the years
There are numerous people beneath The Stig persona over the years with Ben being the most popular out of them
He's the second Stig and the first one to appear with white overalls (the very first Stig was using black overalls)
Yea there were a few, it was mostly michael schumacher when they tested Ferrari's
If you're interested look at car throttles podcast they did with Ben Collins. It explains how he got rec9gnised and the secret behind the stig. It's good.
@@welephant2013 I'll definitely check it out, thank you!
My two favorite cars together!!!!!
I didnt expect that!!!!
Thank you carwow!!!
Really shows how far engineering has come on over the years
It's hard to put down the power if you have too much of it for the conditions and turbo cars have that swell of torque that hits when the turbo suddenly reaches peak efficiency, which makes it hard to make use of the power in wet conditions. Even my old '18 Q50RS AWD struggled with traction in the wet, so it's not hard to see why the RWD Supra is struggling here. The GR86 has a great balance of power/weight. On dry ground no doubt this would have worked out a lot differently but the GR86 is still very impressive for how "little" power it actually has.
Good balanced comment. The GR86 is benefiting from much newer tech whereas the Supra is stock trying to live up to the legend everyone thinks it is. Love the Supra for its looks and the legendary tuning potential, but it's foolish to think newer cars and tech haven't surpassed it. Just a shame the Gen 5 is a Z4 with a body kit.
@@chriswattie3392 they should have got subaru to make the new Supra, and then used a toyota V6 engine. Like a BRZ/GR86 on steroids. For the interior they could have just used the Lexus people.
That would have been a better new Supra, and a more 'Toyota' Supra (since Subaru and Toyota have ownership stakes in one another, and Lexus is obviously Toyota), but I'm just talking crap really.
@@Jez4prez1 that would be one way to keep it 100% Toyota but to people who grew up loving the Supra, it’s blasphemous to use anything but a straight 6 engine. I personally do not find Toyota V6 engines very inspiring so I’m glad they didn’t use the 3.5. With the budget they were given, partnering with BMW was the best way to build it with an I-6 and keep the traditional fan base mostly happy. They have been very solid cars so far, and the B58 has actually proven to be dead on reliable since it came out in 2015, even now that it’s been in use for several years. Like a lot of Supra fans I also wish Toyota would have resurrected the 2JZ but the B58 is the next best thing, and it has some big advantages over the 2JZ in that it weighs less and gets far better fuel economy, which is a bonus.
@@chriswattie3392 The GR86 got destroyed from the rolling race @ 8:48 and 10:34 which lessens the terrible wet conditions from a dig.
I was around in 1993 when the Supra came out and read all the old magazine comparisons. It is a legend. Back then it beat the best Corvette and 911 Turbo and could out handle the Ferrari 512TR.
Honestly a choice to choose between the two but I'd lean towards the supra because it's pure old school 100% Toyota!! Ben Collins!! Even after all these years you still the man! Great job Mat as always!
Nobody that knew anything about cars would even consider the GR86 compared to older Supra. That's a ridiculous comparison the old Supra is an all time legend.
To bad it isnt 100% toyota
Not what I thought would happen. The GR86 looks so good to me. Love the BRZ / 86 twins!
I suspect something is wrong with that Supra. There's no way it wouldn't be able to reel in a GR86 when on boost and when the wheels have traction. Perhaps there's a boost leak somewhere, that happened to my old Chaser with a turbo 1JZ, a tiny hole in the stock piping resulted in a massive reduction of horsepower.
I don't think so... in stock form the Supra was always meh down low without RPM. That 3rd gear pull was the best representation of it and unless they did a high rpm launch with plenty of traction it was going to struggle.
Maybe cause supras are slow as fuck? Stop coping just cause the “jdm legend” gets thrashed by anything faster than a regular traffic car
Can’t wait to pick up my GR86 on Thursday!
Don't race any s2000 or RX8s they will dick you
Congrats
Really goes to show how much cars have advanced and improved over the years. Even your normal passenger cars nowadays are quite quick with more efficient, but powerful engines, especially ones that are turbocharged. On any day of the year, I'd still take the old school stuff. Simpler to work on, easier to diagnose, and more rewarding to drive and modify.
The supra was slow stock. Like all 90s jdm shit stock but the aftermarket was were it's at.
@@societyisboringninguna mierda pa, eo Supra stock no es lento
unfortunately modern cars have no character at all
@@societyisboring Lemme guess you were born after the year 2000.
It wasn't slow stock. The performance of a stock MK4 Turbo today is the same as the new Civic Type R, Golf R or Corolla GR.
The standing drag race didn't prove anything. Look how wet the road was. They both ran bad 1/4 times with the Supra running a worse time of 15.2 sec compared to the usual low 13's that they run in dry conditions. Go look at the roll race again @ 8:48 and 10:34 and see how hard the Supra pulled away from the GR86.
The new GR 86 looks sexy, I just wish more was imported to the UK, because we would get a chance at least to buy a second hand one, since not ALL people will probably like the car due to not being a "speed demon" type sports car.
Yep. But 1997 Supra and 1998 RX-7 Type RS gonna crush the 2022 GR86.
not stock as you can see in the video, the shitbox got spanked
No point a newer MX5 can dick one on any UK B-Road so 🤷
you can always buy a brz, it's the same thing
@@purwantiallan5089Maybe, but they were much more expensive cars. If you adjust for inflation, the FD RX-7 was sold for around 32K in 1993… adjusted for inflation that is more than 69K… the MK4 Supra turbo had an MSRP of 38K in 97’. Adjusted for inflation that’s around 74k. The GR 86 is a 33K car in 2024… you get so much car for the money… and toss in an HKS turbo for about 6K and for much less money you will smoke the RX7 and the MKIV Supra for way less money.
"it's meaty and it's mighty"... We still talking about the car, right?
Yep. About that what about the RX-8??
Hmm, you reckon?
Ugh! I love these supras but back in high school I had a Camry hybrid 2012 and my rich priveliged friend had the N/A Supra. I actually was neck and neck with him to 60 when he slowly began to pull on me! Those midsize hybrids are no joke lol
If I'm not mistaken, this is UK spec Supra and I think they came with 280-286 bhp, but I may be wrong
Other way around :) 320+ UK, 280+ Japan
@Supra RCJPOP Nice one! Got to love a gentleman’s agreement 😂
I'm not mad about this at all 🔥🔥🔥🔥
The new GR86 is surprisingly quick, but I wonder what happened with the Supra. It was capable of high 13s when new. Maybe it needs maintenance, or the rain really hurt its performance, or a combo of both.
Tires also make a huge difference and the track almost looks wet. 🤷♂️
Tired OEM turbo.
For how much money MK4 Supras cost these days, you’d think they’d be in top maintenance!
There's definitely something wrong with that Supra Turbo 🤔
Forgot that was the Stig, legendary Ben Collins.
We absolutely need more of this dude on the channel.
This looks like a post-Clarkson TopGear that we really enjoy.
Yep. Shame that 2020s Top Gear shows got outclassed.
No it doesn't stop talking the same garbage pal.
Mk IV supra also has some mods im sure. Exhaust alone while minimal decreases weight + adds small amount of power.
I wonder if this has offset the losses from the car being 30 years old though
Not a small amount of power. Mine in standard form made 185kw, and 240kw with a catback exhaust. 280kw with a fmic and a full exhaust system. Supra gains big with small mods up to about 280kw.
I mostly blame the tires and the wet surface for the poor performance. It was 2 seconds slower than it should have been.
This is the magic of good gearing and no unnecessary weight.
The supra has extremely long gears and is closer in weight to Camarro. 330PS at the wheels or not it's not tuned for what it has. I doubt the Supra is in good condition but it's sad to see so many people incapable of seeing how much overall tuning matters more than than what your max number is.
This GR86 sounds awesome from inside!
Speaker noises, but yeah.
@whisperisko i disabled my fake engine noise. Still sounds good.
Spot the GenZ. Speaker engine noise is f#@^ing criminal and instantly recognisable. I bet you love pop and bang maps too? Popcorn boy
@@bigduphusaj162 oh im sure your into that shit as well. Driving your shitty 3 series with m badges all over it. Or you own a charger
@@bigduphusaj162 Triggered arent ya
I´m happy to see the old Stig back!
Very impressive Power to weight on the GR86, great track car for sure!
About 20 years ago my dad got a 1990 supra 3L twin turbo. I loved it as a kid. Any car that overtook my dad while he was just cruising I would say you can't let them do that and he would... go back past them at an appropriate and safe speed 😉🤣
Reading that made me chuckle. What an enabler. 😄
I had two turbos back in '04. One was a stock '87 with HKS intake and downpipe and an A'PEXi exhaust (can't remember the model). It was slow even with the wastegate washer mod but sounded really nice.
The other was a built '88 with a 60-1 turbo, forged internals, A'PEXi S-AFC/VPC combo and A'PEXi GT SPEC exhaust. It put out 530 WHP at 26 PSI and sounded very throaty.
I'll always have a void for the sound of the 7M-GTE and always miss those cars. Having the roof off felt so nice, too.
Hahaha I did the same thing with my dad back in the 90s, but in a much less cool ‘92 Mercedes 400 SEL. He’d oblige at least half of the time.. lol
Don’t want to be a dick but there is no 3.0 twin turbo 1990 Supra😅
@@JJ-df4kx I was born in 89 and I remember it being 1 year off and I'm almost certain it was a H reg.
It probably would have been an 89 but registered in 1990 for the H reg 🤷♂️
@@jamm8284 the mk3 has the 7mgte, 3.0 single turbo, 1ggte, 2.0 twin turbo, 1jzgte, 2.5 twin turbo and 3.0 and 2.0 non turbo engines. It’s only plausible if you dad swapped in a 2jzgte 3.0 twin turbo from a mk4🙃 it probably was a 1990 single turbo 7mgte. Most of them have that engine.
Nice race, that mk4 is for history books for sure man
Nothing match the 1997 Supra tho.
@@purwantiallan5089Supra is the best car in the world 1200hp stock
@@purwantiallan5089 r34 GTR, honda nsx.......much better cars than the supra. Supra is a drag beast, it would get walked by those other two around a track. To bad fast and the furious blinded you
@@subiesnacks8446 good one, NSX was a twitchy mess needed kept on song was like a 600cc sportbike chasing the high RPM to get it moving. R34 was a safe option but a bit wooden to drive and lunged to the left all over the place it was very lungey. RX7 was the best handling of the lot and the best to drive then Supra but supras even back then they chipped them at first they hit 400+ just with a refresh or chip and that was only like £80 at the time. Much more responsive and they smashed any stock Japanese car at the time at 400bhp. It needed a 350+bhp cossie to take them down at the time. E36 M3 evo was about the next fastest thing from the showroom and the Supras walked away from them at about 70mph
@@purwantiallan5089 ah yes, the "supra good" bcs it's a supra 2jz waa waa type fan
What a good video piece of art. Keep it up Matt.
Be curious to know the differences in tires and gear ratios. But yeah they really gave the old car every chance they could.
Sound check took my heart away. What symphony. No wonder they also made the LFA.
I feel like the new GR86 is closer to the MK4 Supra than the MK5 Supra. As far as body style & having backseats goes.
The chemistry between these two is amazing 😍
I believe The Stig has to time his launches a bit better. Never thought I'd write that.
Yeah. Exactly. Seems the stig is starting half a second later. Most obvious on the 3th race not from a dig.
Actual racing drivers don't do false starts as it's instant disqualification plus actual drag racing events time your reaction time so Mat would be instantly disqualified from every proper drag event based on the fact he pre-dumps brakes and clutches early to take up the lag in the launch modes all modern cars have. Mat is a youtube guy who invented his own starting method where you're allowed to go right as the hands drop rather than the traditional hands dropping being the reaction time itself so people knew who jumped the start. Learn wtf you are talking about you casuals
Supra fanboy here, they used to run mid to high 13sec 1/4miles so it must be tired. But have to give it to the gr86, sounds like an exotic fridge but is quick…. However, still shows just how quick the supra is in its old age. Such strong top end acceleration which in a roll race which most of us do on the street (at least in Aus) is where it shines :)
Good races, you need to retest them with dry weather
And a working Supra
That should be done in the dry! Curious to see the results then.
I've Driven a couple Supras and they can put down a low 13 stock with a decent set of tires
They're in England, when is it ever dry?..
@@moldyrefrigerator 😄
The Supra would win. Just look how hard it pulled away from the roll races @ 8:48 and 10:34
I own a 1993 RZ Turbo Automatic Supra, and honestly, it's extremely rare to find such a stock performance Supra these days like the one in this video.
Even my fairly stock Automatic Supra makes 400+hp and that's just with the boost turned up on the stock twins that have been high flowed.
Most people rip off the twins, put a big single turbo and make much more power.
Question: was the performance sats of the Mk4 Supra the stock stats or is it the stats in its current state. I'm sure I've heard that power declines with age and its 30 years old.
If its the stock stats it would be interesting to get it dyno-ed.
No it does not loose power by age, but by distance and only in its last hours when compression is not at 100%. Most old cars have their claimed Power.
Weight and transmission ratios are as important factor to this result.
@@heroesofthelandstrasse true, IF the vehicle is maintained 100%. Unfortunately, a 30 year old turbo car is likely to have a boost leak, coil pack issues, or something else. Usually it's an easy fix. The fact this one still has the original rubber intercooler hoses begs for issues. Mine were already hard and rotting when I replaced them with aluminum pipes back in 1999. This Supra most likely needs some of those easy fixes.
8 year old kid’s: 😮This is fake🤬
This was hilarious 😂😂😂. Great stuff Matt💯
Matt, get Jeremy Clarkson once, give him Ford raptor while you sit in Bugatti.
Or what about Mazda RX-7 495BHP?
@@purwantiallan5089 the point is Jeremy Clarkson hates anything that is American. It's for the contrast to get laughs out of it. If you had watched old top gear show you'd know.
You think Clarkson cares about Mat?
@@bigduphusaj162 no, but about Ford Raptor
I will forever love the mk4, no matter how outdated they become. Owning one made the same month and year I was born, thankful.
I remember Best Motoring getting high 12s in the 1/4 mile from a Supra turbo and this one is struggling to get into the 14s. There must be something wrong with that car.
Age!
Car and Driver got: 0-60 in 4.6s and the 1/4 in 13.3s @ 108mph.
It was the quickest of 8 sports cars they compared it at the time, including a Corvette ZR1 and Porsche 924.
Jap Spec 280, UK Spec 320… this looks like a UK model but seemed to perform very much around the 280 though? Likely longer gear ratios too, after all it was a GT car of its time.
@@shortfattoad7317 but it has an aftermarket exhaust and modern tyres which would counter losing some power due to age.
@@mrnicktoyou you for real? A fat half system makes the car run worse unless it's had the fueling changed and modern tyre technology is only really moved on in braking and cornering some of the drag tyres used today have been about since the 90s especially big tyre pro-stock and funny & top fuellers. Bike tyre tech has far put advanced car tyre tech for a start to and that's coming from an engineer in the michelin vid about modern car tyre tech.
Mat get a 550i e60 please against a m5 e39 or whatever you got at hand. Its a silent car the 550i e60 because of the M5 V10 hype
Matt watson you are a free man, incredible, what a job you have sir
where are the supra kids
at the newest comment u will find a lot of them
in the comments
😂
The ''old girl'' has been destroyed 😅😂😅
Wym ? Old girl is faster
@@farazmuddasir9221 shitbox
@@farazmuddasir9221 old girl lost the drag race
@@brightbaah8659 yes but that dosent prove it got destroyed ? It lost drag race due to traction issues while 86 got the better launch. The old girl ate the 86 for lunch in a roll in which the faster car wins
Can never destroy the king quarter mile race dnt prove Notting.
UK Spec Supras rarely make 320 BHP rating on a dyno, 290-305 is more the norm. Plus they are pigs at 1600+ KG with all the options without driver, the 1490 KG figure bandied around on the internet is for a no options JDM model and possibly dry weight to boot ...
" He's such a knob" hahahaha !
The new 86 is so quick it beats the Miata by two tenths of a second 😂
Ikr I dicked two of them in an RX8
Feels so good to see a mk4 get destroyed
Ben is launching when the arms reach down, wheras Matt launches as soon as they start to go down. That gives Matt a slight advantage. You have to specify some standard criteria Matt, give my guy Ben a chance
I would love to see a drag race against the gr86 and the old gt86
Throttle House did one between a GR86 and the GT86 TRD on their GR86 review if you're curious
Some facts for anyone wondering why the supra didnt seem fast:
On same dyno:
MK4 supra stock whp is about 280
GR86 stock whp is about 225.
Supra weight is about 3400
GR86 weight is about 2800
Supra 12.1:1 lbs-to-hp
GR86 12.4 lbs-to-hp
So they are very close.
But to add to the GR86's acceleration, it also has shorter gearing.
12 year olds ain't gonna like this one
They didn't 💀
I love that they’re both so slow you can have a full conversation while racing.
Been waiting for this!!!