I have a gk3 pick up equipped Epiphone SST Studio guitar and also a Godin acs sa slim that i use in tandem with a GR-55 and i love it. The trick is : find a patch that works for you and do a deep dive and tweak it to suit your playing style . Greatest guitar multi effect ever made in my opinion. Not perfect but very impressive for the most part .
Thank you so much for the work you’ve put into creating this series - your the only channel I could find that is discussing the finer points and comparisons of new and old Boss synth gear… I am admittedly new to midi synths with guitars and just purchased the gk-5 and gm-800, but haven’t had the time to set it up and try it out. I will comment back with my experience. I think we can all agree on one thing : Both boss and Roland make exceptional gear, but when it comes to menus and setup, they are still back in the 80s and 90s mind of doing things. It’s 2024, fellas… time to modernize and simplify
Thanks for the cello and violin demo! Now I know, The Boss GM 800 blows it out of the water, and thanks for demo:ing on a Godin as well as I have the same gear!!, I'll be getting the GM800
It would be wild to have a setup that is: Godin Concert Grand --> Gm800 --> Eurorack rig with sampler (triggered by Godin/GM800 MIDI), delays, looper, and a range of filters/modulation.
Stuck notes with the GM-800 is something had until I resolved a ground loop issue from daisy chained power supplies. also with just the GK-5 used, if no normal pickup cable is in the guitar, the bridge and strings are not grounded, and are causing noise/hum to enter the GK-5 and not release the last played note.
Wait for the next video. You can download and expand the tone collection. The GR 55 has 910 tones. from this collection all of the patches or presets are made. The GM-800 has 1247 tones. Once again, from this collection all of the scenes (which are actually presets and patches) are made. What makes the GM 800 stand out is the ability to install more tones. Currently I have downloaded and installed over 1000 more tones. The number of tones I now have is somewhere around 2300. There is a string pack you can add that is better than the tones that come with the unit. Many of these tones come from their flagship keyboard series. The next video will cover this in detail.
That's a video I'll be waiting for. I'm new to the GR55, but it's definitely pretty cool !!!!! Not sure I need to dive into the 800 yet, but maybe somewhere down the road when I get the money and really feel the need for it, or just realize that I need better sounds. But the 55 is pretty impressive ! Thanks for the video !
Good call on comparing the 2, was looking for that 👍 btw, Godin is pronounced "GOD" and "AIN* kinda like the word "ain't" but the t sound at the end is mute.
Awesome video! I have the GR-55 and the Godin Multiac as well as the XTSA. I love the ability to combine sounds. I was considering getting the GM-800 but I don't like the GK-5.. I wonder if the AD box works better?
The AD box works great. The tracking is better on the Godin with the GM-800 when compared to the GR-55. My advice is to avoid the GK5 if you decide to upgrade.
Click on the video description on this page to open it up and then click on the first blue link in the video description. You will go to my google drive. You will see some folders and you will see some files. All the PDFs regarding the GR-55 are in there too. In every graphic of a file or folder you should see three dots to the right. click on those dots and choose download. The most current version of the Floorboard software is in there. Use that to install the patches.
See the detail about measuring the distance from the gk3 pickup to each saddle - I had set mine up by measuring the height of the string to each pickup on the gk. You questioned your pronunciation of Godin. My head reads God-din, but it is French and is pronounced Go-dan. But really, what does it matter? We all understood everything you said. "Go-dan" does add a bit more resale value though. Amazing video which I thoroughly enjoyed.
What type of bridge would you recommend for a guitar you were going to install a gk pickup on? I have a Schecter C-1 FR-S SLS Elite I'd like to use. Think the sustainiac pick up would be fun in half guitar and half synth mode. This is my first Floyd, haven't changed the strings yet and I've been lucky, this one holds tuning and intonation like a champ with moderate dive bombs and pull ups. After watching this I'm concerned that the intonation will go out of whack during string changes and I'll have to remeasure and tweek the gk pickup every time I change strings. Am I overthinking things or is it alot less hassle to use a solid tail bridge?
I've heard both. Tracking is my biggest concern as I play 3 tunings (like fourth higher tuned EADGCF) 6-string BASS guitar. However, the COSM is useless for me, and the patches are cheesy on the GR-55. The GM-800 WINS for sound quality. The sounds are superb. FULL disclosure: I don't yet own either. I currently use mono synth Panda Future Impact highest v 3.61 (not counting brand new hardware v4) and Source Audio C4 into Eventide H9 MAX. This is incredible sounding. Most things track even 1/32 fast runs on hard coated fretless board - still tweaking. I plan on the gm-800. So many cool options but they must get the tracking.
Since we are talking full disclosure, I will say I have been testing the GK-3B pickup with my bass guitars. What a waste of money that has been. First, I tried to put the GK3B pickup on my 5-string bass, but the design of the GK3B was so awful that it would not fit on that Bass. Then I mounted it on my 4-string Bass and started running tests. I tested the pickup with my GR-55 and My SY1000. Both synths have bass mode and after switching to bass mode I did not notice any significant improvement in the latency. It did not seem to make a big difference. You are right. The GR-55 Bass patches are cheesy. The bass guitar models worked well, but there were only 3 standard bass guitars to choose from. Nothing great. The latency was terrible in the lower register for the synth patches. The low notes had horrific latency. The SY-1000 was not much better. I tested with the GM800 and got a little better results. but there was still latency. I was going to do a video on it, but the tests I ran did not support any recommendation for a GK bass pickup. A few weeks ago Boss put out a firmware update for the GM800 and this is supposed to improve the latency. I installed the update and tested it with my all my guitar GK pickups and notice big improvements. I have not yet tested it with my GK Bass pickup. Even though the GK5 pickup has improved for the GM800, it is not 100 percent there. I still get ghost notes on certain patches. Some patches that were problematic have improved. Because of the issues I had with the GK5, I was reluctant to buy a GK5B for my bass guitar. That is a lot of money to spend for something that may not even work. Right now, my advice would be to wait and don't jump into anything yet. I need to test my GK3B with the GM800 to see if the latency has improved.
@@marcuscurtismusic Great video! I've been considering a GM-800 and play a couple Godin guitars with synth-access. You may have sold me! As far as latency and particularly with bass- the Boss/Roland pitch-tracking algorithm is quite outdated compared to more modern tech like the Fishman TriplePlay or Jam Origin's MIDI Guitar software which both use forms of predictive modeling that beats the more basic physics of older tracking algorithms like used in the Roland stuff (the Roland stuff still has to see a full waveform of each note before it can process what that note is). From testing done by others, Roland's fastest pitch-tracker thus far (though the GM-800 may not have been tested yet) was discontinued decades back (the GI-20 box, which was a pitch-to-MIDI convertor for 13-pin instruments- part of the reason for its speed is that all processing is dedicated purely to the pitch-tracking and MIDI note transposition rather than creating of sounds) and already lagged compared to the competition at the time (Axon/Yamaha). In the case of a low E on a bass the fundamental waveform at 40hz takes a full 20ms to complete, then there is the additional time to process that information and trigger the notes- and the processor used in the GR55 at least was actually slower than some previous Roland GK stuff. The SY1000 in my experience is slightly faster, though can tend to be less accurate as well (especially on the MIDI output). I had assumed modern processors in the GM800 would improve at least the processing time significantly, but most of the latency when triggering with a bass is a result of the physics of their outdated algorithm and can't be improved without completely re-writing their approach to pitch-tracking. The algorithm is acceptable with a guitar as the notes an octave up take half of the time to complete the waveform, so with fast processors that latency stays more manageable. With bass I am often playing my Roland stuff an octave or two up and pitching the notes down an octave or two to manage the latency. The Tripleplay hasn't been made in a bass version, and the Jam Origin's bass software version is basically still a beta compared to the guitar one (the bass one is monophonic and not very stable). The Panda MIDI Future Impact mentioned above is a monophonic tracking bass synth made by the same genius behind the old Axon pitch-to-MIDI rack units (generally accepted as Roland killers even in the 90s), the Akai Deep Impact (what the Future Impact has improved upon) as well as the Fishman TriplePlay. Tracking with a bass on the newest Future Impact v4 has hardly any noticeable latency even down to the low E, which is a stunning thing to say as a bassist who suspected the tech would never catch up for our uses- the Future Impact v4 is basically the only audio pitch-tracking device I've tried yet that meets my expectations for being able to play bass-synth with a bass without distracting latency (as a bassist, hitting a note on time but feeling or even hearing it hit behind my own internal beat is one of the most frustrating things I can think of!). I know his work is patented so Roland won't be able to incorporate it into their products for some time and seem uninterested in investing in creating their own modernized algorithm using predictive modeling. I was actually pretty amazed the GM-800 had come into being given how much more sophisticated their competition in this niche field has become since the SY-1000 came about. For bass I still make great use of the SY-1000 for the Dynamic Synth voices as those voices don't actually require pitch-tracking- they are taking your input signal and wave shaping it to resemble a synth sound- so no latency to speak of. Mixing Dynamic Synth and modeled instruments (which also don't have latency in the SY) with the OSC synth voices (which DO have frustrating latency with a bass) can make some very killer tones and be mixed to hide some of the latency if you are clever. I am actually working on a rig wherein I send the lower 2 strings of my bass as a clean signal straight to an out of the SY to play the Future Impact pedal for those thick mono-synth voices with minimal latency, then mix that with the latency-free tones from the SY
It's in the video description. Click below the video where it says more and some links will open up. but to make things easier let's just do this. drive.google.com/drive/folders/1hGp_nw8CPiyBLBz-cFnZh9H6d02aOnEt
Gr55 is a beast had so much potential., the dilemma was they absolutely abandoned the product no updates to fix known issues. At time some patches where just unusable. Sad roland did this it would have sold better inmo
Roland and Boss have a habit of doing this sometimes no doubts there. The last update for this was firmware version 1.50. That really added a lot of features.
You can't do that with the GM 800 because there is no guitar input for your standard pickups . You can do that with the GR 55 but it can be tricky to set up. If you are looking for a synth that does this then your best bet is the Boss SY-1000. It has a standard guitar jack input. It also has better guitar amp models. I should be doing a future video on that synth as a part of this series.
@@marcuscurtismusicThere is a mod on RUclips by a user who installed a 1/4" jack for guitar input. I don't understand why he did that, when the 13 pin arrangement does it, but perhaps it overcame the obstacle of guitar not being in any patches, apart than a few.
Hello friend, I'm a grs lover, I have the gr-55, gr-33 and gr-20, I'm thinking about purchasing the gm-800, but I have some doubts. From your point of view, has it improved the issues of ghost notes and latency in relation to the grs?
The new firmware update from Boss that was released a few weeks back addressed many issues and it made the GK3 pickups track even better. If you have the GR-55 then you should also have a guitar with a GK3 pickup. What I would do in your case is avoid the GK5 pickup. Instead, buy a silver Box that is called Boss GKC-AD. This is an adaptor box that will allow you to use your GK3 or GK2A pickups with the GM800. This means you will not need to purchase the GK5 pickup. The silver box is cheaper than the pickup anyway, and the older GK pickups track better. There is a black box called Boss GKC-DA. This is another converter box that allows you to plug into a GM800 and another Roland synth at the same time. You will find that the GM800 is the best sounding synth out of the ones you mentioned. The sounds are incredible.
Hi Marcus! Thank you for the video. I'm interested in getting the GM-800 but one information is not clear to me yet: Is it possible to us GM-800 as a pedal set as well or just as a synth? If I want a pedal set, will it be necessary to get the GT-1000 Core, for example?
It does not have a pedal set built in. it is just a guitar synth. It is better than the GR-55 when it comes to the guitar synth, but it has no guitar effects or guitar amps. The GT-1000 core is a good option depending on your needs.
Thank you@@marcuscurtismusic ! In terms of instrument emulation, which one do you think it's better? Considering reviews i've watched already, it seems GM-800 has more alternative synths, while GR-55 is more focused on emulating traditional instruments. Is that true? Or with GM-800 I can have the same traditional instruments + alternative synths?
@@ricardoalmeida8611The GM800 is exactly the same kind of synth that the GR-55 is. The sounds come from recordings of real instruments and synths then they are layered in samples. These samples are called tones. The better the samples are, the better the tones will be. In this area, the GM800 is much better than the GR-55. Tracking refers to the delay that happens from the time you play the note until the time you hear the note through a speaker. This is also referred to as latency. Once again, the GM800 is better in this department than the GR-55. Two things make the GM800 stand out. First, it has over 1200 tones. These tones are combined to make the presets you hear. The presets are called scenes. You can layer up to 4 tones. The GR-55 has 910 tones. You can layer up to two tones to make a preset. Second, The latency is lower on the GM800, which means there is less delay between the time you strike the note and the time you hear the note. The processing power is greater in the GM800. This allows you to use the GM800 as a MIDI interface. You can plug it into your computer and use it to control other software synths. You can also use midi to connect into other keyboards. This allows you to use your guitar to play a keyboard. While you can also do this with the GR55, the latency does not make this a great option. There is too much delay with the GR-55 when used in this manner. The GM800 also has the option to expand your tone collection. You can access the Roland Cloud and get more tones for the GM800. Currently, I have over 2200 tones on my GM800. As a synth, the options are far better with the GM800. The GR-55 has guitar and amp modeling, and it is pretty good guitar and amp modeling. You can layer those guitars with the keyboard sounds. It is still to this day a great synth. Those are pretty much all the main differences.
Hi@@marcuscurtismusic ! What an amazing explanation! Thank you so much for taking your time and explaining with so much details. That helped me to understand the main differences and now I few comfortable with my purchasing decisions.
12:50 Sorry but you're wrong there. Play Feel is under menu > scene edit > master and it's not based on per patch. I have mine set to Play Feel 2 and Dynamics on 5 and Low vel cut on 2 and it stays the same on every patch. It is indeed global and not per patch basis.
I will investigate this further. If I am wrong I will do a retraction. Play feel is no where to be found in the software. When I find it I will retest the GK5 to see if I can get it to track better. Thank you for your input.
@@marcuscurtismusic Like I said it's under menu > scene edit > master and then use the arrows < or > to navigate to other pages. I know it's there on the unit itself because I just looked again when I typed that message above. However I am not sure about the software as I don't use tone studio right now for anything.
From the looks of it on screen (kind of blurry) it does look like your ibanez sensitivity is set high which will cause cross-talk and hanging notes. I set my prs around 50 to 60 and works great. Also you never showed the sensitivity on your godin, so I wonder what it was set too for it? I'm confidence if you lower the sensitivity some for your gk-5 and mess with the low vel cut, you'll find the right balance. Another reason it can't be an issue with the pickup is because I don't have that issue or else everyone would have that issue, and all things point to the user getting the right adjustments made via sensitivity / low vel cut etc.. to make it work better.
@@BrockDavisson The sensitivity of the Godin is set around 40 per string average. Same with the GK5. If I go lower then that on the sensitivity with the GK5 it barely registers. I want to say that I really do appreciate your input. Maybe I can get this GK5 working after all. When I get time I hope to dive into a troubleshooting session. I have always tried to do everything from the software. Thanks to you I just discovered that there are detailed settings on the unit that are not available in the software. My mistake is assuming that the software had access to all the same settings the hardware unit has. It was easier to use the software because I could see it better. I was looking under menu in the software but it is different than menu on the hardware unit. Many of the same settings are there but there are some settings like play feel that are not there. Thanks again for your help.
This is from their website, "The Multiac Grand Concert SA features pristine-sounding electronics by LR Baggs" The Piezo L setting on the GR-55 is designed for the L.R. Braggs pickup. If you have a Piezo hex pickup guitar with the RMC OPT-01 Subsonic Input Filter Board, then you would use the Piezo R setting. This is a circut board that people add because of noise. The L.R. Braggs does not have the noise issue that other Piezo hex pickups have.
@@marcuscurtismusic Thank you so much for your detailed answer 🙏 I realized something a few days ago. I set sensitivity for each string but it only controled pcm tones (not normal pick up) For example if I use some modeling like legato or piano etc. it works. But when I play nylon string tone with normal pickup its same. Is it normal or do my piezos have problem? 🤔
What happens if you dampen the trem springs and temporarily block it? I am guessing you may have already done these tests. I wonder if Boss did not test trem vibration properly. Curious. Thank you for the videos
That is a good question. I have not tried that. But I do have a tremolo on the black Ibanez and the Fender Strat with no issues. I can tell you that the strings seem to matter. when I go to light tension or medium tension on the Nylon Godin guitar it does not track as well. When I go to high tension strings for nylon Godin guitar it tracks better. Also when I use a standard set of strings with 010 on the high E string it seems to track better than a set that is 008 or 009. That is just my personal experience. The GK5 pickup is on a guitar that has a set with 009 on the high E string. I am thinking about going to 010. I have been putting it off because when ever I change the Gage I typically need to adjust the intonation too. This is really fun to do on a locking tremolo system. I need to get some time off of work so I can really test this gear.
Great videos! Watched all 3 on this. Shame there are flaws. The thing that appealed to me about the GR55 were: 1 lead, control on the guitar (as you mentioned missing on the GK5) and a floor device combining a guitar effects processor and synth. The thing that put me off was the many comments about tracking and the 13 pins. As many manufactures seem to do, they have improved on some things but lost others - no direct guitar output / no guitar effects, guitar and amp modelling / less switchability on the unit and a pickup that is good in terms of pins but has less flexibility. So you have to have two leads and two devices on the floor. Shame.
Sorry it too so long to reply. You have successfully voiced a lot of the frustration when using guitar synths. I suspect that the reason why Boss did not include the guitar modeling with the GM800 was because it is already built into the SY-1000. I think the idea is to use both synths as a set. The SY-1000 actually has better modeling than the GR-55. Part of the reason for this is due to the fact that the GR-55 uses the COSM amp models and the SY-1000 uses the AIRD amp models, which is newer technology. The GK5 pickup actually works a lot better with other guitar synths. It is more powerful when capturing a signal. It is just not practical.
@@marcuscurtismusic Lots to think about. And I used to just plug in to a 2 channel amp with just a lead and no effects 😅. Thanks for your reply and thoughts and for the videos!
Great! I set up the GK 5 & checked it out with the GM 800. I seem to be getting too many ‘hanging’ notes , especially on organ types of tones. I’ve set up each string sensitivity to the 90 range . The sensitivity is not maxed out but about 90% to the max level. The factory default is 65. Have I set up the sensitivity too high by any chance? On some tones,notes play by itself even before I could play! Any workaround would greatly help! Thanks!
yeah, I have the same issues. I have some workarounds, but you may not like them. First, contact support on the Boss website and explain your issues. The more people that complain about this, the sooner Boss will come up with a fix. This can be addressed in a firmware update. In order for me to use this synth, I had to use my older GK3 pickups. Maybe you have a guitar that has an older GK3. If you do, then consider getting the GKC-AD adaptor. This will allow you to use your older Boss pickups with the GM800. The GK3 work just fine with this synth. There are no issues with the older pickups. The GK5 works great with the older synths like the SY-1000. But they don't work very well with their new synth. This tells me that a firmware update is definitely needed. This is O.S. software related issue. At least that is my guess The good news is because you just purchased this, then it is still under warranty. You are entitled to free support from Boss. www.boss.info/us/support/
Thanks a lot for the kind response.I will definitely get in touch with Boss.I reduced the string sensitivity & it did seem to help, except on some lower strings I found the pitch going out of whack & tracking slow. The 'hanging' notes are a lot better now though.I do have a guitar with a GK3.Does the GM 800 work with the GK 2 A? I see the GK2 A option on the GK settings, so I hope it works.WIll grab yjr converter when I get a good deal for sure.Thanks@@marcuscurtismusic
@@MusicChannel-rf5zz the GK2A does work with the GM800. When I set the tracking for each instrument, I like to use the Tone Studio software from Boss. You can get a better measurement for tracking by using the software. Reducing the string sensitivity seems to be a solution for some patches, but it does not work well for others.
I have a Variax a bunch of guitar fx boards and pedals and figured that I could vastly slim the herd if I was to replace most of it (even a guitar or two) with either a Boss or Roland synth unit. I was surprised to see that these units all hold their money on the second hand market and there is only a few hundred bucks between buying a GR-55 with pickup and buying the new Boss GM-800 guitar synth with the new style trs pickup! What erk's me is the crappy looper time on the Roland and no expression pedal.. the Zencore engine is awesome but it just seems that Roland always fall short of giving everything you need and instead spread functionality across different products!
Yes, that is frustrating to say the least. This means in order to figure out total cost, you must figure out what everything costs separately. So if you were going to buy a GM800 that would be 750.00. But you would also need a pickup so add another 250.00. You will also need an expression pedal with TRS cable, so add another 150.00. Next you will need to add a remote foot switch (FS7) which is another 65 bucks plus a TRS cable to go with that. So you will be into everything for over $1200.00. So ask yourself this question. What else could you buy for $1200.00? The thing to know about the GM800 is that there is no guitar amp modeling or guitar modeling capabilities built into the unit. It is a much better synth than the GR-55, but it does not have all the features of the GR-55. If I had to get rid of everything and just use one guitar synth then the synth I would keep is the SY1000. It does not have the sax or string sounds. It is an analog synth. But it is the best overall synth in terms of guitar models, amp models, and actual synth sounds.
All Roland/Boss synths have their strength and weaknesses. But for single mono lines, I like the SY-1000 the best. In addition to the analoge synth it also has the flagship guitar amp models that can be found on GT-1000 devices. It also has guitar models that sound better than the line 6 Variax guitars. If I only had one synth that would be the one I would own. That being said the GM800 has a feature that lets you choose between poly or mono playing for each patch. The poly allows you to play notes from all the strings at once. The mono only allows one note to play at a time from one string. The mono eliminates ghost notes, but you are not able to play as fast, so if you are a shredder certain patches may not function as you would like.
No, I have not. I don't own an Apple computer. I am not one of these guys that hate Apple computers and I think they're good computers. I just don't own one right now.
Thanks.Not sure how to hook them together.Can you explain a bit pls? Will the latency of GR55 be as good as the GM 800 when putting them together?@@marcuscurtismusic
@@MusicChannel-rf5zz it is actually pretty simple but you will need a few more pieces of hardware. You will need a black box by Roland called GKC-DA. It sells for about $200.00 You will also need another midi chord that uses a GK5 connection. From the synth output located on the GM800, plug into the GKC DA. The GKC-DA has a GK3 13 pin output that goes to the GR-55. This will not have an impact on latency. Both synths together will operate independently. I run the output of both synths into a mixer. I have a video in this series that shows you how to hook 3 synths together at once. We also hook up a GT-1000. Everything is controlled from one guitar. This video should answer any questions about the different ways to hook up these devices. ruclips.net/video/BeDg9q6jfnQ/видео.html
To anyone reading this: I've edited to make this less snarky - didn't really mean to be, but was, in the first draft. Haven't removed it as I received - & deserved - a stern response from Marcus, who has put a lot of work into this review. So if you wonder why Marcus responded as strongly as he did, I've edited this somewhat but he was justified in responding as he did. _________________________ So the GM 800 has a great synth that sounds inevitably like a synth. But to my ear, EVERYTHING on it sounds synth. OK piano but strings DO NOT sound like string instruments: cello & violin for instance, as demonstrated, are crap. Sound about as close to the real thing as you'd get from a Hammond Organ c. 1970. The GK-33 has a sax sample that actually sounds pretty good. Exactly like a sax? Hell no: your ear is pretty good & a model is still a model. But it's quite acceptable for gigging. The GR-55 can do it too I think with 3rd-party software. Why should I care about the GM-800? That's unclear - I'll watch your next vid on this. - Is tracking substantially improved from the GR-55? - Can the GM-800 replace the GR-55 & add additional functionality? It doesn't seem so - certainly not without additional gear & hassle (also $). It's irritating that Roland/BOSS doesn't appear to be supporting the 13-pin output very well. The Roland GR-55 is now ~14years old with no clear successor. Godin continues to support the 13-pin output: there is STILL a market for it. But Godin is getting screwed by BOSS. You'd think a firm that's received such dedicated support from another manufacturer would reciprocate, but NO: BOSS is either asleep, pre-occupied with other stuff or just doesn't understand the value of working WITH a market, not against it. I like the idea that an instrument with 13-pin output can be connected (albeit with adapter) to a MIDI input. The market standard is MIDI. Problem: that input should be built into the box, not require a patch cable. A patch cable is expensive, adds extra length & break points (people gig with this stuff!) and probably introduces delay. There's already an inevitable delay - tracking is noticeable with the GR-55. If we connect to a GM-800 WITH the patch cable, is tracking no better?
The name of the video is Tracking Comparison. I showed that the GK5 pickup sucks. No one was saying that when I made this video. Every video I saw showed the GM800 working fine with the GK5 pickup. They were all saying the new GM800 was great!! I demonstrated ghost notes and poor tracking. The GM800 does a better job tracking with the GK3 pickup, and the tracking is better with the GM800 using the GK3 than it is with the GR-55 when using the GK3 pickup. The piano patches alone demonstrate this. Anyone who used the GR55 knows how bad the piano patches and the electric piano patches are. Yes, you need to buy the gray box in order to use the GM800 with a 13 pin GK3. I don't like that either. It should have been built into the GM800, but the fact is it was not built into the gm800. I am still able to play my Godin with the GM800 and I actually purchased my Godin after I bought the GM800. It still sounds better than the GR-55. When I say you are going to see why I bought this thing in the next video, it is because I am covering a new set of topics. I am not talking about tracking in that video. I show how to add sounds and how to use the GM800 as a midi controller, which is why I purchased the unit. If I added that to this video, then the video would be over an hour and 30 minutes long. This video is part of a series that puts everything to the test and finds the weaknesses. It seems to me that Boss could have done a little better in their product development. For example, it's great that you can actually add tones. Tones are what you use to make scenes or patches. No other guitar synth has ever been able to do that. However, you are limited to just 4 expansion packs. Boss sells about 20 of them. They don't disclose this when you purchase the additional tones. I purchased about 12 expansion packs at 20 bucks each. I can only use 4 at a time. Had I known this information, I would have only bought 4 packs. The GM800 has the capabilities to uninstall and reinstall these packs, but that will mess up all the scenes you made using the expansion packs. This is detailed and that is why there is another video explaining this Yes, tracking is substantially improved as long as you are using the GK3 pickup. No, the GM800 is not a replacement for the GR-55. It does not have any of the amp modeling or guitar modeling capabilities, and it does not have the built-in music player. You cannot blend guitar models with synth tones. The GM800 and the GR55 are two different animals, even though they are both synths. This is why I still have my GR55. You are right. 15 years is too long to go without a successor. They attempted this with the SY-1000, but they changed the type of synth. I understand some of the reasons why Boss did what they did, but other things just make me scratch my head and wonder. By dropping the guitar modeling and moving away from blending the guitar pickups with synth sounds, they are able to move away from the 13 pin connections. Their new cable looks like a TRS cable because it is a TRS cable. I tested the synth with a regular TRS cable and in some cases it tracked better. Boss makes the claim that the 13 pin cable is still being supported, but we will see if that is true.
@@marcuscurtismusic Marcus: I apologize. I deserved the slap-down; you didn't deserve having me get snarky. You are absolutely justified in your response. You did indeed deliver in the video what's promised in the description. And I shouldn't have grumped that some of what I'd been looking for wasn't directly addressed in the vid: it's your vid & you DID stay on-topic, and tracking comparison is a really significant issue. You do a good job on these - your video is well produced, and that's not easy. And the Roland/BOSS synth series is especially confusing: newer models don't really replace the GR-55 despite the desperate need for that. There are even things about the GR-33 that keep people using them as they've been lost in the GR-55, & that's approaching 14 yrs. old now. I'll try to be less irritable - esp. try not to post when I've reason to feel irritable (my issues, not yours). I will in fact subscribe & will try to be more constructive if I post again. Meanwhile I AM glad you're covering this stuff 'cause you're right: it's a poorly-covered part of the market.
@@jamesthompson7282 It's ok James. Just know that I am here to help you and here to help the guitar synth community. I will directly answer any question you have or help you in any way I can. One thing I know, these companies can be frustrating, especially when it seems they are not addressing the needs of the customer. If you need anything, just let me know and I will edit my response as well.
Roland people add a global pickup attachment setting boom🎉🎉🎉🎉 i dont know why you would switch guitars with an imput being built in the gk5 pickup ... your problem has been subverted intellectually rendering your issue just your own.
What is a global pickup setting boom? I googled it and nothing came up describing what that is. I plugged directly into the GM 800 using the GK 5 pickup and the dedicated Boss cable. My installation of the pickup exactly mirrors one of the ways Boss describes on their website. There are a few ways to install it. Another way is to use the included double sided tape. There is no input built into the GK5. That hole is a quarter inch output. It plugs into the quarter inch hole on the GK5 that is labeled GK in, which is an input. If I use a different guitar with a GK3 pickup then I gain access to additional buttons that can be used to change patches. I also get a volume knob on the guitar for the synth. The two buttons can be used for CTL functions as well. This is something the GK5 does not have. The tracking problems are not uniquely my own as I have heard from several people who struggle with the same issue. It is true that there are people who do not have this problem but many people do. The GK3 has an input but that is only for the guitar pickups. This allows you to blend the pickups and the midi together. That is not needed on the GM 800 so the input is bypassed when using the grey box. there is an output on the grey box that passes the guitar pickup signal along to something else like an effects pedal board.
You can find the pickup for 250.00 but if you already have a GK-3 you can use that instead. You will get better results this way. The box that converts the GK-3 so you can use it with the GM-800 is only $200.00 (sarcasm in the word only) In the end you are right. Ridiculous.
GR 55 is better hands down Boss GM 800 is a toy nothing useable for Live cover bands.. this is not a real comparison, I've got both, Sent GM 800 back sucked
For people like me who don’t play in live cover bands there is still a lot of use for the GM-800 and the responsiveness, the organ and the electric piano sounds alone make it worthwhile for me - but each to their own.
This video is not meant to be a comparison of every feature found on each unit. This video is only meant to cover Tracking and that is why it is called Tracking Comparison. Tracking is a reference to the latency that happens between the time you play the note and then hear the note. Like it or not, the tracking is better with the GM-800. The GK5 pickup is a bad design and the GK3 pickup is better. But the GK3 tracks better on the GM-800. That is the only point of this video. Now it is true that all the VG guitar stuff was stripped away but that does not make this a toy. In a recording studio the GM 800 is far superior to the GR-55. It can be used as a midi interface and there are several other features that make it great for studios. In a live situation you use it as a keyboard not as a guitar amp. This thing is great for playing in a band that does original music. I don't need to find a keyboard player because I am the keyboard player. It works well on covers too except my covers tend to be Jazz covers. No need to find a Jazz piano player. now it may not fit your situation or needs but that does not make this a toy.
Je possède le GR55 depuis longtemps et je l’utilise très souvent sur scène. J’ai créé mes propres patches qui me satisfont pleinement. Ces discussions sur le GR55 m’intéressent beaucoup. Je m’abonne ! 🎶🎸🎶❤🇺🇸
lol watch out for the hairy arm of doom...dang italians... I did a search on how to pronounce this guitar and nobody seems to know. My sister in law is french and she said it is a french word which is pronounced go-deen but judging by her accent it may be go-den. I still don't know. www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130026
Thanks for this! I will be staying with my older GK stuff.
I have a gk3 pick up equipped Epiphone SST Studio guitar and also a Godin acs sa slim that i use in tandem with a GR-55 and i love it. The trick is : find a patch that works for you and do a deep dive and tweak it to suit your playing style . Greatest guitar multi effect ever made in my opinion. Not perfect but very impressive for the most part .
Thank you so much for the work you’ve put into creating this series - your the only channel I could find that is discussing the finer points and comparisons of new and old Boss synth gear…
I am admittedly new to midi synths with guitars and just purchased the gk-5 and gm-800, but haven’t had the time to set it up and try it out. I will comment back with my experience.
I think we can all agree on one thing : Both boss and Roland make exceptional gear, but when it comes to menus and setup, they are still back in the 80s and 90s mind of doing things.
It’s 2024, fellas… time to modernize and simplify
Thanks for the cello and violin demo! Now I know, The Boss GM 800 blows it out of the water, and thanks for demo:ing on a Godin as well as I have the same gear!!, I'll be getting the GM800
It would be wild to have a setup that is: Godin Concert Grand --> Gm800 --> Eurorack rig with sampler (triggered by Godin/GM800 MIDI), delays, looper, and a range of filters/modulation.
Thank you so much Re: tracking. I’ll look for your channel now to see if you compare to the Fishman as well. Thanks again! 👏🏻
Stuck notes with the GM-800 is something had until I resolved a ground loop issue from daisy chained power supplies. also with just the GK-5 used, if no normal pickup cable is in the guitar, the bridge and strings are not grounded, and are causing noise/hum to enter the GK-5 and not release the last played note.
I will investigate this. Thank you for the information
Thank you for this. I love my GR-55 but it's time for an upgrade. But man, I still can't get into the violin. They haven't been able to nail that yet.
Wait for the next video. You can download and expand the tone collection. The GR 55 has 910 tones. from this collection all of the patches or presets are made. The GM-800 has 1247 tones. Once again, from this collection all of the scenes (which are actually presets and patches) are made. What makes the GM 800 stand out is the ability to install more tones. Currently I have downloaded and installed over 1000 more tones. The number of tones I now have is somewhere around 2300. There is a string pack you can add that is better than the tones that come with the unit. Many of these tones come from their flagship keyboard series. The next video will cover this in detail.
That's a video I'll be waiting for.
I'm new to the GR55, but it's definitely pretty cool !!!!!
Not sure I need to dive into the 800 yet, but maybe somewhere down the road when I get the money and really feel the need for it, or just realize that I need better sounds.
But the 55 is pretty impressive !
Thanks for the video !
Good call on comparing the 2, was looking for that 👍
btw, Godin is pronounced "GOD" and "AIN* kinda like the word "ain't" but the t sound at the end is mute.
It always amazes me how different people pronounce Godin. Thank you for your input.
If youve got gk 2 or 3 you need a "GKC AD" to use them with the gm 800. A must have.
thanks, staying with my old gp 10 and gk3
Brilliant, this is a masterpiece explanation. Thanks for the huge work and for the google drive patches!!!
You are most welcome. Glad you could use the patches.
Awesome video! I have the GR-55 and the Godin Multiac as well as the XTSA. I love the ability to combine sounds. I was considering getting the GM-800 but I don't like the GK-5.. I wonder if the AD box works better?
The AD box works great. The tracking is better on the Godin with the GM-800 when compared to the GR-55. My advice is to avoid the GK5 if you decide to upgrade.
@@marcuscurtismusic Thanks for your advise.
Hope the Roland guys get to see this.
Me too
Great presentation. I would like to download your patches. Can you guide me?
Click on the video description on this page to open it up and then click on the first blue link in the video description. You will go to my google drive. You will see some folders and you will see some files. All the PDFs regarding the GR-55 are in there too. In every graphic of a file or folder you should see three dots to the right. click on those dots and choose download.
The most current version of the Floorboard software is in there. Use that to install the patches.
See the detail about measuring the distance from the gk3 pickup to each saddle - I had set mine up by measuring the height of the string to each pickup on the gk. You questioned your pronunciation of Godin. My head reads God-din, but it is French and is pronounced Go-dan. But really, what does it matter? We all understood everything you said. "Go-dan" does add a bit more resale value though. Amazing video which I thoroughly enjoyed.
What type of bridge would you recommend for a guitar you were going to install a gk pickup on?
I have a Schecter C-1 FR-S SLS Elite I'd like to use. Think the sustainiac pick up would be fun in half guitar and half synth mode. This is my first Floyd, haven't changed the strings yet and I've been lucky, this one holds tuning and intonation like a champ with moderate dive bombs and pull ups.
After watching this I'm concerned that the intonation will go out of whack during string changes and I'll have to remeasure and tweek the gk pickup every time I change strings. Am I overthinking things or is it alot less hassle to use a solid tail bridge?
I've heard both. Tracking is my biggest concern as I play 3 tunings (like fourth higher tuned EADGCF) 6-string BASS guitar. However, the COSM is useless for me, and the patches are cheesy on the GR-55. The GM-800 WINS for sound quality. The sounds are superb. FULL disclosure: I don't yet own either. I currently use mono synth Panda Future Impact highest v 3.61 (not counting brand new hardware v4) and Source Audio C4 into Eventide H9 MAX. This is incredible sounding. Most things track even 1/32 fast runs on hard coated fretless board - still tweaking. I plan on the gm-800. So many cool options but they must get the tracking.
Since we are talking full disclosure, I will say I have been testing the GK-3B pickup with my bass guitars. What a waste of money that has been. First, I tried to put the GK3B pickup on my 5-string bass, but the design of the GK3B was so awful that it would not fit on that Bass. Then I mounted it on my 4-string Bass and started running tests. I tested the pickup with my GR-55 and My SY1000. Both synths have bass mode and after switching to bass mode I did not notice any significant improvement in the latency. It did not seem to make a big difference.
You are right. The GR-55 Bass patches are cheesy. The bass guitar models worked well, but there were only 3 standard bass guitars to choose from. Nothing great. The latency was terrible in the lower register for the synth patches. The low notes had horrific latency. The SY-1000 was not much better. I tested with the GM800 and got a little better results. but there was still latency. I was going to do a video on it, but the tests I ran did not support any recommendation for a GK bass pickup.
A few weeks ago Boss put out a firmware update for the GM800 and this is supposed to improve the latency. I installed the update and tested it with my all my guitar GK pickups and notice big improvements. I have not yet tested it with my GK Bass pickup. Even though the GK5 pickup has improved for the GM800, it is not 100 percent there. I still get ghost notes on certain patches. Some patches that were problematic have improved.
Because of the issues I had with the GK5, I was reluctant to buy a GK5B for my bass guitar. That is a lot of money to spend for something that may not even work. Right now, my advice would be to wait and don't jump into anything yet. I need to test my GK3B with the GM800 to see if the latency has improved.
@@marcuscurtismusic Great video! I've been considering a GM-800 and play a couple Godin guitars with synth-access. You may have sold me!
As far as latency and particularly with bass- the Boss/Roland pitch-tracking algorithm is quite outdated compared to more modern tech like the Fishman TriplePlay or Jam Origin's MIDI Guitar software which both use forms of predictive modeling that beats the more basic physics of older tracking algorithms like used in the Roland stuff (the Roland stuff still has to see a full waveform of each note before it can process what that note is). From testing done by others, Roland's fastest pitch-tracker thus far (though the GM-800 may not have been tested yet) was discontinued decades back (the GI-20 box, which was a pitch-to-MIDI convertor for 13-pin instruments- part of the reason for its speed is that all processing is dedicated purely to the pitch-tracking and MIDI note transposition rather than creating of sounds) and already lagged compared to the competition at the time (Axon/Yamaha).
In the case of a low E on a bass the fundamental waveform at 40hz takes a full 20ms to complete, then there is the additional time to process that information and trigger the notes- and the processor used in the GR55 at least was actually slower than some previous Roland GK stuff. The SY1000 in my experience is slightly faster, though can tend to be less accurate as well (especially on the MIDI output). I had assumed modern processors in the GM800 would improve at least the processing time significantly, but most of the latency when triggering with a bass is a result of the physics of their outdated algorithm and can't be improved without completely re-writing their approach to pitch-tracking. The algorithm is acceptable with a guitar as the notes an octave up take half of the time to complete the waveform, so with fast processors that latency stays more manageable. With bass I am often playing my Roland stuff an octave or two up and pitching the notes down an octave or two to manage the latency. The Tripleplay hasn't been made in a bass version, and the Jam Origin's bass software version is basically still a beta compared to the guitar one (the bass one is monophonic and not very stable).
The Panda MIDI Future Impact mentioned above is a monophonic tracking bass synth made by the same genius behind the old Axon pitch-to-MIDI rack units (generally accepted as Roland killers even in the 90s), the Akai Deep Impact (what the Future Impact has improved upon) as well as the Fishman TriplePlay. Tracking with a bass on the newest Future Impact v4 has hardly any noticeable latency even down to the low E, which is a stunning thing to say as a bassist who suspected the tech would never catch up for our uses- the Future Impact v4 is basically the only audio pitch-tracking device I've tried yet that meets my expectations for being able to play bass-synth with a bass without distracting latency (as a bassist, hitting a note on time but feeling or even hearing it hit behind my own internal beat is one of the most frustrating things I can think of!). I know his work is patented so Roland won't be able to incorporate it into their products for some time and seem uninterested in investing in creating their own modernized algorithm using predictive modeling.
I was actually pretty amazed the GM-800 had come into being given how much more sophisticated their competition in this niche field has become since the SY-1000 came about. For bass I still make great use of the SY-1000 for the Dynamic Synth voices as those voices don't actually require pitch-tracking- they are taking your input signal and wave shaping it to resemble a synth sound- so no latency to speak of. Mixing Dynamic Synth and modeled instruments (which also don't have latency in the SY) with the OSC synth voices (which DO have frustrating latency with a bass) can make some very killer tones and be mixed to hide some of the latency if you are clever. I am actually working on a rig wherein I send the lower 2 strings of my bass as a clean signal straight to an out of the SY to play the Future Impact pedal for those thick mono-synth voices with minimal latency, then mix that with the latency-free tones from the SY
Thank you for a great video.That's the most beautiful Godin too !
I appreciate this sooooo much!
I can't find the link to your patches. Can you please tell me where to go. Thanks
It's in the video description. Click below the video where it says more and some links will open up. but to make things easier let's just do this. drive.google.com/drive/folders/1hGp_nw8CPiyBLBz-cFnZh9H6d02aOnEt
Thanks for the response. The patches are awesome. There is a patch called Mahogany. Is it a Frank Marino patch?
@@fender54 It could be, but I don't know for sure
Great Video.. best one for seeing the useage refinement. Best vid yet for my query😅
Does it work with GK-3 pick up?
Yes it does the first video in this series shows how to use the GM 800 with a GK 3 pickup
My sy1000 uses gk3, very good synth
SY-1000 still my favorite synth.
Gr55 is a beast had so much potential., the dilemma was they absolutely abandoned the product no updates to fix known issues. At time some patches where just unusable. Sad roland did this it would have sold better inmo
Roland and Boss have a habit of doing this sometimes no doubts there. The last update for this was firmware version 1.50. That really added a lot of features.
Brilliant ! thank you on so many levels - really appreciated.
Glad it was helpful!
Hi! Thanks. Question: can I use only fx like delay, compressoy, chorus, with my guitar and my amp? Like an fx guitar processor?
You can't do that with the GM 800 because there is no guitar input for your standard pickups . You can do that with the GR 55 but it can be tricky to set up. If you are looking for a synth that does this then your best bet is the Boss SY-1000. It has a standard guitar jack input. It also has better guitar amp models. I should be doing a future video on that synth as a part of this series.
@@marcuscurtismusicThere is a mod on RUclips by a user who installed a 1/4" jack for guitar input. I don't understand why he did that, when the 13 pin arrangement does it, but perhaps it overcame the obstacle of guitar not being in any patches, apart than a few.
Hello friend, I'm a grs lover, I have the gr-55, gr-33 and gr-20, I'm thinking about purchasing the gm-800, but I have some doubts. From your point of view, has it improved the issues of ghost notes and latency in relation to the grs?
The new firmware update from Boss that was released a few weeks back addressed many issues and it made the GK3 pickups track even better. If you have the GR-55 then you should also have a guitar with a GK3 pickup. What I would do in your case is avoid the GK5 pickup. Instead, buy a silver Box that is called Boss GKC-AD. This is an adaptor box that will allow you to use your GK3 or GK2A pickups with the GM800. This means you will not need to purchase the GK5 pickup. The silver box is cheaper than the pickup anyway, and the older GK pickups track better.
There is a black box called Boss GKC-DA. This is another converter box that allows you to plug into a GM800 and another Roland synth at the same time. You will find that the GM800 is the best sounding synth out of the ones you mentioned. The sounds are incredible.
Hi Marcus! Thank you for the video. I'm interested in getting the GM-800 but one information is not clear to me yet: Is it possible to us GM-800 as a pedal set as well or just as a synth? If I want a pedal set, will it be necessary to get the GT-1000 Core, for example?
It does not have a pedal set built in. it is just a guitar synth. It is better than the GR-55 when it comes to the guitar synth, but it has no guitar effects or guitar amps. The GT-1000 core is a good option depending on your needs.
Thank you@@marcuscurtismusic ! In terms of instrument emulation, which one do you think it's better? Considering reviews i've watched already, it seems GM-800 has more alternative synths, while GR-55 is more focused on emulating traditional instruments. Is that true? Or with GM-800 I can have the same traditional instruments + alternative synths?
@@ricardoalmeida8611The GM800 is exactly the same kind of synth that the GR-55 is. The sounds come from recordings of real instruments and synths then they are layered in samples. These samples are called tones. The better the samples are, the better the tones will be. In this area, the GM800 is much better than the GR-55. Tracking refers to the delay that happens from the time you play the note until the time you hear the note through a speaker. This is also referred to as latency. Once again, the GM800 is better in this department than the GR-55.
Two things make the GM800 stand out. First, it has over 1200 tones. These tones are combined to make the presets you hear. The presets are called scenes. You can layer up to 4 tones. The GR-55 has 910 tones. You can layer up to two tones to make a preset.
Second, The latency is lower on the GM800, which means there is less delay between the time you strike the note and the time you hear the note. The processing power is greater in the GM800. This allows you to use the GM800 as a MIDI interface. You can plug it into your computer and use it to control other software synths. You can also use midi to connect into other keyboards. This allows you to use your guitar to play a keyboard. While you can also do this with the GR55, the latency does not make this a great option. There is too much delay with the GR-55 when used in this manner.
The GM800 also has the option to expand your tone collection. You can access the Roland Cloud and get more tones for the GM800. Currently, I have over 2200 tones on my GM800. As a synth, the options are far better with the GM800.
The GR-55 has guitar and amp modeling, and it is pretty good guitar and amp modeling. You can layer those guitars with the keyboard sounds. It is still to this day a great synth. Those are pretty much all the main differences.
Hi@@marcuscurtismusic ! What an amazing explanation! Thank you so much for taking your time and explaining with so much details. That helped me to understand the main differences and now I few comfortable with my purchasing decisions.
@@ricardoalmeida8611Glad I could help.
What a review🎉 totally useful. Tnx ❤
Glad you liked it
12:50 Sorry but you're wrong there. Play Feel is under menu > scene edit > master and it's not based on per patch. I have mine set to Play Feel 2 and Dynamics on 5 and Low vel cut on 2 and it stays the same on every patch. It is indeed global and not per patch basis.
I will investigate this further. If I am wrong I will do a retraction. Play feel is no where to be found in the software. When I find it I will retest the GK5 to see if I can get it to track better. Thank you for your input.
@@marcuscurtismusic Like I said it's under menu > scene edit > master and then use the arrows < or > to navigate to other pages. I know it's there on the unit itself because I just looked again when I typed that message above. However I am not sure about the software as I don't use tone studio right now for anything.
Review GM-800 Parameter Guide Page 9 SYSTEM PARAMETERS for Global Low Velocity Cut, Play Feel , etc - its separate from Guitar to MIDI
From the looks of it on screen (kind of blurry) it does look like your ibanez sensitivity is set high which will cause cross-talk and hanging notes. I set my prs around 50 to 60 and works great. Also you never showed the sensitivity on your godin, so I wonder what it was set too for it? I'm confidence if you lower the sensitivity some for your gk-5 and mess with the low vel cut, you'll find the right balance. Another reason it can't be an issue with the pickup is because I don't have that issue or else everyone would have that issue, and all things point to the user getting the right adjustments made via sensitivity / low vel cut etc.. to make it work better.
@@BrockDavisson The sensitivity of the Godin is set around 40 per string average. Same with the GK5. If I go lower then that on the sensitivity with the GK5 it barely registers. I want to say that I really do appreciate your input. Maybe I can get this GK5 working after all. When I get time I hope to dive into a troubleshooting session. I have always tried to do everything from the software. Thanks to you I just discovered that there are detailed settings on the unit that are not available in the software. My mistake is assuming that the software had access to all the same settings the hardware unit has. It was easier to use the software because I could see it better. I was looking under menu in the software but it is different than menu on the hardware unit. Many of the same settings are there but there are some settings like play feel that are not there. Thanks again for your help.
So should I use Piezo L for Godin SA guitar? 🤔 I thought it should be Piezo R (R means RMC) Which one should it be? Please help
This is from their website, "The Multiac Grand Concert SA features pristine-sounding electronics by LR Baggs"
The Piezo L setting on the GR-55 is designed for the L.R. Braggs pickup. If you have a Piezo hex pickup guitar with the RMC OPT-01 Subsonic Input Filter Board, then you would use the Piezo R setting. This is a circut board that people add because of noise. The L.R. Braggs does not have the noise issue that other Piezo hex pickups have.
@@marcuscurtismusic Thank you so much for your detailed answer 🙏 I realized something a few days ago. I set sensitivity for each string but it only controled pcm tones (not normal pick up) For example if I use some modeling like legato or piano etc. it works. But when I play nylon string tone with normal pickup its same. Is it normal or do my piezos have problem? 🤔
What happens if you dampen the trem springs and temporarily block it? I am guessing you may have already done these tests. I wonder if Boss did not test trem vibration properly. Curious. Thank you for the videos
That is a good question. I have not tried that. But I do have a tremolo on the black Ibanez and the Fender Strat with no issues. I can tell you that the strings seem to matter. when I go to light tension or medium tension on the Nylon Godin guitar it does not track as well. When I go to high tension strings for nylon Godin guitar it tracks better. Also when I use a standard set of strings with 010 on the high E string it seems to track better than a set that is 008 or 009. That is just my personal experience. The GK5 pickup is on a guitar that has a set with 009 on the high E string. I am thinking about going to 010. I have been putting it off because when ever I change the Gage I typically need to adjust the intonation too. This is really fun to do on a locking tremolo system. I need to get some time off of work so I can really test this gear.
Great videos! Watched all 3 on this. Shame there are flaws. The thing that appealed to me about the GR55 were: 1 lead, control on the guitar (as you mentioned missing on the GK5) and a floor device combining a guitar effects processor and synth. The thing that put me off was the many comments about tracking and the 13 pins. As many manufactures seem to do, they have improved on some things but lost others - no direct guitar output / no guitar effects, guitar and amp modelling / less switchability on the unit and a pickup that is good in terms of pins but has less flexibility. So you have to have two leads and two devices on the floor. Shame.
Sorry it too so long to reply. You have successfully voiced a lot of the frustration when using guitar synths. I suspect that the reason why Boss did not include the guitar modeling with the GM800 was because it is already built into the SY-1000. I think the idea is to use both synths as a set. The SY-1000 actually has better modeling than the GR-55. Part of the reason for this is due to the fact that the GR-55 uses the COSM amp models and the SY-1000 uses the AIRD amp models, which is newer technology. The GK5 pickup actually works a lot better with other guitar synths. It is more powerful when capturing a signal. It is just not practical.
@@marcuscurtismusic Lots to think about. And I used to just plug in to a 2 channel amp with just a lead and no effects 😅. Thanks for your reply and thoughts and for the videos!
Great! I set up the GK 5 & checked it out with the GM 800. I seem to be getting too many ‘hanging’ notes , especially on organ types of tones. I’ve set up each string sensitivity to the 90 range . The sensitivity is not maxed out but about 90% to the max level. The factory default is 65. Have I set up the sensitivity too high by any chance? On some tones,notes play by itself even before I could play! Any workaround would greatly help! Thanks!
yeah, I have the same issues. I have some workarounds, but you may not like them. First, contact support on the Boss website and explain your issues. The more people that complain about this, the sooner Boss will come up with a fix. This can be addressed in a firmware update. In order for me to use this synth, I had to use my older GK3 pickups. Maybe you have a guitar that has an older GK3. If you do, then consider getting the GKC-AD adaptor. This will allow you to use your older Boss pickups with the GM800. The GK3 work just fine with this synth. There are no issues with the older pickups. The GK5 works great with the older synths like the SY-1000. But they don't work very well with their new synth. This tells me that a firmware update is definitely needed. This is O.S. software related issue. At least that is my guess
The good news is because you just purchased this, then it is still under warranty. You are entitled to free support from Boss.
www.boss.info/us/support/
Thanks a lot for the kind response.I will definitely get in touch with Boss.I reduced the string sensitivity & it did seem to help, except on some lower strings I found the pitch going out of whack & tracking slow. The 'hanging' notes are a lot better now though.I do have a guitar with a GK3.Does the GM 800 work with the GK 2 A? I see the GK2 A option on the GK settings, so I hope it works.WIll grab yjr converter when I get a good deal for sure.Thanks@@marcuscurtismusic
@@MusicChannel-rf5zz the GK2A does work with the GM800. When I set the tracking for each instrument, I like to use the Tone Studio software from Boss. You can get a better measurement for tracking by using the software. Reducing the string sensitivity seems to be a solution for some patches, but it does not work well for others.
Thanks for the valuable info.@@marcuscurtismusic
Thanks.Will the converter box work with the GK 2A .On the GC site it says it convert GK3 but does not mention GK 2 A@@marcuscurtismusic
I have a Variax a bunch of guitar fx boards and pedals and figured that I could vastly slim the herd if I was to replace most of it (even a guitar or two) with either a Boss or Roland synth unit.
I was surprised to see that these units all hold their money on the second hand market and there is only a few hundred bucks between buying a GR-55 with pickup and buying the new Boss GM-800 guitar synth with the new style trs pickup!
What erk's me is the crappy looper time on the Roland and no expression pedal.. the Zencore engine is awesome but it just seems that Roland always fall short of giving everything you need and instead spread functionality across different products!
Yes, that is frustrating to say the least. This means in order to figure out total cost, you must figure out what everything costs separately. So if you were going to buy a GM800 that would be 750.00. But you would also need a pickup so add another 250.00. You will also need an expression pedal with TRS cable, so add another 150.00. Next you will need to add a remote foot switch (FS7) which is another 65 bucks plus a TRS cable to go with that. So you will be into everything for over $1200.00. So ask yourself this question. What else could you buy for $1200.00?
The thing to know about the GM800 is that there is no guitar amp modeling or guitar modeling capabilities built into the unit. It is a much better synth than the GR-55, but it does not have all the features of the GR-55. If I had to get rid of everything and just use one guitar synth then the synth I would keep is the SY1000. It does not have the sax or string sounds. It is an analog synth. But it is the best overall synth in terms of guitar models, amp models, and actual synth sounds.
can this device transmit midi data to pc daw for recording?
yes it can and that is the next video I am working on.
@@marcuscurtismusic thks truth be told i have a gr55 gathering dust somewhere hope to see ur tutorial video soon
What’s best guitar synth if u just want to do single note (mono) lines?
All Roland/Boss synths have their strength and weaknesses. But for single mono lines, I like the SY-1000 the best. In addition to the analoge synth it also has the flagship guitar amp models that can be found on GT-1000 devices. It also has guitar models that sound better than the line 6 Variax guitars. If I only had one synth that would be the one I would own. That being said the GM800 has a feature that lets you choose between poly or mono playing for each patch. The poly allows you to play notes from all the strings at once. The mono only allows one note to play at a time from one string. The mono eliminates ghost notes, but you are not able to play as fast, so if you are a shredder certain patches may not function as you would like.
@@marcuscurtismusic do you recommend the midi pickup
Have you tried the GR55 with macOS Sonoma yet?
No, I have not. I don't own an Apple computer. I am not one of these guys that hate Apple computers and I think they're good computers. I just don't own one right now.
Just ordered a GM 800 but keeping GR 55 as it has both guitar tones as well as keyboard tones.
You can hook them both together and use both pedals at the same time. Very handy to do
Thanks.Not sure how to hook them together.Can you explain a bit pls? Will the latency of GR55 be as good as the GM 800 when putting them together?@@marcuscurtismusic
@@MusicChannel-rf5zz it is actually pretty simple but you will need a few more pieces of hardware. You will need a black box by Roland called GKC-DA. It sells for about $200.00 You will also need another midi chord that uses a GK5 connection. From the synth output located on the GM800, plug into the GKC DA. The GKC-DA has a GK3 13 pin output that goes to the GR-55. This will not have an impact on latency. Both synths together will operate independently. I run the output of both synths into a mixer. I have a video in this series that shows you how to hook 3 synths together at once. We also hook up a GT-1000. Everything is controlled from one guitar. This video should answer any questions about the different ways to hook up these devices.
ruclips.net/video/BeDg9q6jfnQ/видео.html
Thanks a lot for the kind reply.I will check your other video on this too.Glad there's a work around.
@@marcuscurtismusic
Dude!!! Roland-Boss needs to put you on the payroll!!!! You'da bomb!
Thank You. I would rather test things as a customer. I think if I was on the payroll I would be limited to what I could say about the products I test.
To anyone reading this: I've edited to make this less snarky - didn't really mean to be, but was, in the first draft. Haven't removed it as I received - & deserved - a stern response from Marcus, who has put a lot of work into this review. So if you wonder why Marcus responded as strongly as he did, I've edited this somewhat but he was justified in responding as he did.
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So the GM 800 has a great synth that sounds inevitably like a synth. But to my ear, EVERYTHING on it sounds synth. OK piano but strings DO NOT sound like string instruments: cello & violin for instance, as demonstrated, are crap. Sound about as close to the real thing as you'd get from a Hammond Organ c. 1970.
The GK-33 has a sax sample that actually sounds pretty good. Exactly like a sax? Hell no: your ear is pretty good & a model is still a model. But it's quite acceptable for gigging. The GR-55 can do it too I think with 3rd-party software.
Why should I care about the GM-800? That's unclear - I'll watch your next vid on this.
- Is tracking substantially improved from the GR-55?
- Can the GM-800 replace the GR-55 & add additional functionality? It doesn't seem so - certainly not without additional gear & hassle (also $).
It's irritating that Roland/BOSS doesn't appear to be supporting the 13-pin output very well. The Roland GR-55 is now ~14years old with no clear successor. Godin continues to support the 13-pin output: there is STILL a market for it. But Godin is getting screwed by BOSS. You'd think a firm that's received such dedicated support from another manufacturer would reciprocate, but NO: BOSS is either asleep, pre-occupied with other stuff or just doesn't understand the value of working WITH a market, not against it.
I like the idea that an instrument with 13-pin output can be connected (albeit with adapter) to a MIDI input. The market standard is MIDI. Problem: that input should be built into the box, not require a patch cable. A patch cable is expensive, adds extra length & break points (people gig with this stuff!) and probably introduces delay. There's already an inevitable delay - tracking is noticeable with the GR-55. If we connect to a GM-800 WITH the patch cable, is tracking no better?
The name of the video is Tracking Comparison. I showed that the GK5 pickup sucks. No one was saying that when I made this video. Every video I saw showed the GM800 working fine with the GK5 pickup. They were all saying the new GM800 was great!! I demonstrated ghost notes and poor tracking. The GM800 does a better job tracking with the GK3 pickup, and the tracking is better with the GM800 using the GK3 than it is with the GR-55 when using the GK3 pickup. The piano patches alone demonstrate this. Anyone who used the GR55 knows how bad the piano patches and the electric piano patches are.
Yes, you need to buy the gray box in order to use the GM800 with a 13 pin GK3. I don't like that either. It should have been built into the GM800, but the fact is it was not built into the gm800. I am still able to play my Godin with the GM800 and I actually purchased my Godin after I bought the GM800. It still sounds better than the GR-55. When I say you are going to see why I bought this thing in the next video, it is because I am covering a new set of topics. I am not talking about tracking in that video. I show how to add sounds and how to use the GM800 as a midi controller, which is why I purchased the unit. If I added that to this video, then the video would be over an hour and 30 minutes long.
This video is part of a series that puts everything to the test and finds the weaknesses. It seems to me that Boss could have done a little better in their product development. For example, it's great that you can actually add tones. Tones are what you use to make scenes or patches. No other guitar synth has ever been able to do that. However, you are limited to just 4 expansion packs. Boss sells about 20 of them. They don't disclose this when you purchase the additional tones. I purchased about 12 expansion packs at 20 bucks each. I can only use 4 at a time. Had I known this information, I would have only bought 4 packs. The GM800 has the capabilities to uninstall and reinstall these packs, but that will mess up all the scenes you made using the expansion packs. This is detailed and that is why there is another video explaining this
Yes, tracking is substantially improved as long as you are using the GK3 pickup. No, the GM800 is not a replacement for the GR-55. It does not have any of the amp modeling or guitar modeling capabilities, and it does not have the built-in music player. You cannot blend guitar models with synth tones. The GM800 and the GR55 are two different animals, even though they are both synths. This is why I still have my GR55. You are right. 15 years is too long to go without a successor. They attempted this with the SY-1000, but they changed the type of synth.
I understand some of the reasons why Boss did what they did, but other things just make me scratch my head and wonder. By dropping the guitar modeling and moving away from blending the guitar pickups with synth sounds, they are able to move away from the 13 pin connections. Their new cable looks like a TRS cable because it is a TRS cable. I tested the synth with a regular TRS cable and in some cases it tracked better. Boss makes the claim that the 13 pin cable is still being supported, but we will see if that is true.
@@marcuscurtismusic Marcus: I apologize. I deserved the slap-down; you didn't deserve having me get snarky. You are absolutely justified in your response.
You did indeed deliver in the video what's promised in the description. And I shouldn't have grumped that some of what I'd been looking for wasn't directly addressed in the vid: it's your vid & you DID stay on-topic, and tracking comparison is a really significant issue.
You do a good job on these - your video is well produced, and that's not easy. And the Roland/BOSS synth series is especially confusing: newer models don't really replace the GR-55 despite the desperate need for that. There are even things about the GR-33 that keep people using them as they've been lost in the GR-55, & that's approaching 14 yrs. old now.
I'll try to be less irritable - esp. try not to post when I've reason to feel irritable (my issues, not yours).
I will in fact subscribe & will try to be more constructive if I post again. Meanwhile I AM glad you're covering this stuff 'cause you're right: it's a poorly-covered part of the market.
@@jamesthompson7282 It's ok James. Just know that I am here to help you and here to help the guitar synth community. I will directly answer any question you have or help you in any way I can. One thing I know, these companies can be frustrating, especially when it seems they are not addressing the needs of the customer.
If you need anything, just let me know and I will edit my response as well.
good job !
❤
Roland people add a global pickup attachment setting boom🎉🎉🎉🎉 i dont know why you would switch guitars with an imput being built in the gk5 pickup ... your problem has been subverted intellectually rendering your issue just your own.
What is a global pickup setting boom? I googled it and nothing came up describing what that is. I plugged directly into the GM 800 using the GK 5 pickup and the dedicated Boss cable. My installation of the pickup exactly mirrors one of the ways Boss describes on their website. There are a few ways to install it. Another way is to use the included double sided tape. There is no input built into the GK5. That hole is a quarter inch output. It plugs into the quarter inch hole on the GK5 that is labeled GK in, which is an input.
If I use a different guitar with a GK3 pickup then I gain access to additional buttons that can be used to change patches. I also get a volume knob on the guitar for the synth. The two buttons can be used for CTL functions as well. This is something the GK5 does not have.
The tracking problems are not uniquely my own as I have heard from several people who struggle with the same issue. It is true that there are people who do not have this problem but many people do.
The GK3 has an input but that is only for the guitar pickups. This allows you to blend the pickups and the midi together. That is not needed on the GM 800 so the input is bypassed when using the grey box. there is an output on the grey box that passes the guitar pickup signal along to something else like an effects pedal board.
GM 800 is $750 AND doesn't come with the pickup. Thats another $275 with mounting bracket. Ridiculous
You can find the pickup for 250.00 but if you already have a GK-3 you can use that instead. You will get better results this way. The box that converts the GK-3 so you can use it with the GM-800 is only $200.00 (sarcasm in the word only) In the end you are right. Ridiculous.
Godin for Robert Godin. He’s French Canadian. It’s pronounced go-dan.
Teste a gm-800 com o wl-20l da boss
GR 55 is better hands down Boss GM 800 is a toy nothing useable for Live cover bands.. this is not a real comparison, I've got both, Sent GM 800 back sucked
For people like me who don’t play in live cover bands there is still a lot of use for the GM-800 and the responsiveness, the organ and the electric piano sounds alone make it worthwhile for me - but each to their own.
This video is not meant to be a comparison of every feature found on each unit. This video is only meant to cover Tracking and that is why it is called Tracking Comparison. Tracking is a reference to the latency that happens between the time you play the note and then hear the note. Like it or not, the tracking is better with the GM-800. The GK5 pickup is a bad design and the GK3 pickup is better. But the GK3 tracks better on the GM-800. That is the only point of this video.
Now it is true that all the VG guitar stuff was stripped away but that does not make this a toy. In a recording studio the GM 800 is far superior to the GR-55. It can be used as a midi interface and there are several other features that make it great for studios. In a live situation you use it as a keyboard not as a guitar amp.
This thing is great for playing in a band that does original music. I don't need to find a keyboard player because I am the keyboard player. It works well on covers too except my covers tend to be Jazz covers. No need to find a Jazz piano player. now it may not fit your situation or needs but that does not make this a toy.
@@marcuscurtismusic Very well said - I couldn’t agree more!👍
Je possède le GR55 depuis longtemps et je l’utilise très souvent sur scène. J’ai créé mes propres patches qui me satisfont pleinement. Ces discussions sur le GR55 m’intéressent beaucoup. Je m’abonne ! 🎶🎸🎶❤🇺🇸
Well, I hate live cover bands...so I'll probably love the GM-800 ❤
The hairy forearm of doom keeps making the camera go out of focus😂😂😂😂 btw It's pronounced Go-dan
lol watch out for the hairy arm of doom...dang italians... I did a search on how to pronounce this guitar and nobody seems to know. My sister in law is french and she said it is a french word which is pronounced go-deen but judging by her accent it may be go-den. I still don't know.
www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130026
Metric. Thank God!
I got a a Godin and i bought a GR-55 and sell it the next week. Tracking is awefull. Terrible. Worst than GR-700
UNA SEMANA NO BASTA.....LA CONFIGURACIÓN ES MUY TARDADA, PERO EL RESULTADO ES GRAN EFICIENCIA.