I was happy that this episode decided to bring in a variety of Romulan ships. It made sense that they had ships other than the classic Bird of Prey design. I would even say that TNG/DS9 used the D'Deridex WAY too much that it appeared that the Romulans only had one warship type. Picard Season 1 was guilty of the copy-pasta, but I was happy to see that everyone learned from that and decided to expand upon it.
I recall one of the ST (TOS) Comics had a class of Romulan warship called the 'Nova'==it was supposedly a 'battleship' sized warship, so it was large class of craft.
To be fair I think the next gen showed the most variety of romulan ships of any of the older shows. Tos: d7-looking and bird of prey. Tng: D’deridex, scout, science Ds9: D’deridex and shuttle Voyager: D’deridex (though they did use a variant of the D’deridex and scout ships for some of the alien ships lol) Enterprise: bird of prey and drone ship
@@jarrodskufcagaming5203 True, but it wouldn't have taken much to do kitbashing to give some variety (they did some of it). I can't blame TNG/DS9 too much. It was at a time when they had to make ship based models (actual models for ships) at least before Star Trek Voyager came along and they did computer models.
@@superhayes256 It's true. TOS only had one ship. The original Romulan bird of prey was lost forcing them to use Klingon battle-cruisers for filming. Talk about ouch.
Ship has to be 1 of 1. Designed as a flagship/status symbol. Looks real good though, agree that maybe a few less windows would have put it over the top.
If the ships is the political flagship the windows make sense. It's probably designed to be 'safe' for delegates and non military personnel to 'witness' Romulan' victories. It fits the intent of the ship as the 'safe' observation ship in a fleet that would probably be attacked last when surrounded by so many other ships.
You guys realize that the Sombre is an attempt to explain why we only saw Constitution style ships in TOS. To me it was a great way to address that without actually spelling it out
In the Ships of the fleet 2290-91. The Bonhomme Richard Class Was a variant as an Improved Constitution Class, It had different weapon systems and structural systems but looked exactly like a Constitution Class. In fact the weapon system was called the "Saber" system.
Even after almost a year I still hear about the loss of of the Bonhomme Richard I served on that ship. To see her burn down and decommissioned big loss.
Now if the federation knew the romulans had this ship and maybe a few streamlined versions of this I think that could justify both the federation class and the proxima class being build by starfleet
They meant the TOS (and now SNW)-style glowing ball of fiery plasma. By TNG/DS9/VOY, plasma torpedoes visual effects looked no different to photon torpedoes.
ok so maybe the destabilized plasma torpedo was an experimental weapon *ON SUCH A SMALL SHIP* and that's what was being tested, basically with the T'liss type being pretty revolutionary having such a weapon that normally can only be placed on a battleship. how's that sound?
Since we are talking an alternate future or timeline where Pike is still Captain of the Enterprise, isn't it logical that the Romulan ship design might also have changed a bit. Or maybe since we never saw in TOS the entire Romulan fleet and ship designs at that time, we also don't really know what kind of ships they got during that time period either.
Technically yes, nothing in this episode can be considered Prime since it is all a "what if" he is being presented from the Time Crystal. That said, it's kind of hard to believe Pike sending letters out to a bunch of young Fed recruits could have an impact on Romulan starship design.
@@TomNardi Even the smallest change in the past can have rippling effects in the future. For example Kirk not being Captain of the Enterprise might have changed all of his carrier prior and everything we saw in TOS. Another example is the possibility changes not just for those cadets but the entire galaxy and beyond, i.e. in decision making were a Romulan ship design gets dumped in favor of another. We consider small changes more or less irrelevant being used to the TV way of addressing future effect, but in reality it would be enormous. That's why I really don't like the mirror universe logic as well.
Surprisingly, these new ships work well with my personal head canon of what Rumulan ships in the TOS/TMP era would look like, what is probably due to these designs being reminiscent to SFC/SFB/FASA and others designs.
I agree that the windows are too much. The design is good but the windows make it look colossal, like even bigger than the D'deridex. It doesn't really feel like a ship in the same era as the Bird of Prey though.
Or maybe it is. Like I’m cool with Star Trek doing a reboot with scale and size and and tech. Star Trek fans take TOS way to seriously for a tv show that was low budget.
A suitably imposing, and at the same time quite aesetically pleasing, flagship for a leader of a interstellar nation. And as a bonus also resembles some of the FASA ships. I'll happily forgive such minor details as too many windows (which I agree with btw, she definetly could have used less of them) for a overall design this good.
a better flagship for the romulan empire than what the charon was for the terran empire. i don't mind the open beak because it was for a specific purpose(and enhances the angry bird effect) i liked the hint of empty space separating the spine from the neck, reminiscent of later romulan designs with large hollow spaces. the back view somehow made me think of the discovery klingon bird of prey, with the somewhat un-aerodynamic curving. like it's meant to slow it down in atmosphere.
Acually all the new Designs in the Romulan Flett where amazingly designed to be similar in Look to the old Bird of Prey and also forshadowing the later TNG Designs. Well done, production team. Feels good after all.
As some other commenters mentioned, this is absolutely a one off ship and is more status and intimidation than anything else. As for the absurd amount of windows, I think that likely hints toward this effectively being a mobile home to the Romulan Empire's government and military leadership/administration. It's basically a flying capital that's ridiculously heavily armed.
I love the bird of prey, and the other design at a glance seems to fit the same aesthetic. This, however, looks far too organic, maybe even more than the TNG warbird. In this era, that strikes me as incongruous. I’d have preferred to see something like what we see in the Fleet Command mobile game.
I did not have a Picard flashback but I definitely had an STD Vulcan Hello flashback. What is about all those huge ships in nuTrek? It looked like a Klingon Cleave ship. Also, wasn't the Bird-of-Prey supposed to be the plasma torpedoe prototype? That was supposed to be the reason why it was never seen again.
I always thought the D'deridex class was the Romulans version of the D-7 class cruisers the Klingons sold the Romulans back during the TOS era, but with the design evolved with Romulan design philosophy. This looks like an all Romulan design. The Fasa ST rpg had some nice bird-like ship designs which this ship reminds me of like the V-27 or V-30.
The only thing thazt ship misses are some discernible warp nacelles on the end of the wing. While it might break with the bird illusion, it would help tying it in with the original BoP.
Honestly, this thing's design kinda makes the Scimitar make a little more sense. Like the Romulan mindset is "Have the biggest, stealthiest, gun around so the first shot is always the only shot." They've formed a military doctrine around tactical superweapons!
Got remember that just because they Romulans are humanoid does not mean the Romulus version of the hawk / eagle looks like those of earth. Thusly the ship design for a bird like vessel may be more alien.
@trekyards First things first... you have a typo in the overlay, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to say "alpha", and not "aplha" 😉 But I gotta say I absolutely love this ship, it might be one of my favorite designs in SNW so far
This should be compared to the Scimitar rather than a D'deridex. "Stupidly powerful flagship of the head of state, also equipped with a new semi-experimental super weapon"
Is it me, or does the Romulan Praetor's ship have some vibes of the Terran Empire's ISS Charon from Discovery? I think that makes sense, because they are both special starships for the Supreme Leader of their respective Empires.
I love it! And it would make sens that this ships be in service for a long time... imagine it beside a TNG warbird... I imagine it might be almost as big ... I don't mind teh windows toomuch, it gives-it a flying palace vibe appropriate for the Preator
Love the design. I wish they would slow down battles in the newer shows so we can actually see the details of these things. It was too zoomed out and too fast.
Excellent review gentlemen. This Romulan design is nice. No complaints. It fits the era, and keeps with the general Warbird motif used by the Romulans. Not bad.
I really enjoyed the season finale. The first episode of TOS I watched as a kid was Balance of Terror. I liked the Romulan ships and the TOS vibes I got from them.
How does this compare to the Klingon Ships that appeared in Disco? is there a linking path, where by the Klingons get this design in the future and explain how there so different.
I feel like the wings still need a bit more work. Maybe a bit more paneling to make them look like wing feathers, or extend them further out. Some of these images are giving me bat vibes, especially on the back view, just because it's too smooth. Wouldn't be surprised to see this come into STO soon with a 25th century variant. A 32nd century update would look awesome too.
I didn't catch the mouth either on the show. This ship is insane! I love it lol. It's like a mechagodzilla kaiju rival. Like others have pointed out it fits their symbol with eagle grabbing Remus and Romulus. The lady that played the Praetor was also excellent. Scary as f like this ship. I agree with the windows, a lot of star trek online ships have this problem. They have a lot of windows on the D'Deridex as well in the interior areas so maybe not unheard of but the flagshps windows would perhaps be really large by comparasin.
I don't think it was to VFX company that said "We f'ed up in Picard" - they were just building what the art team of the show wanted. I at all, that was what the art department and the showrunners said. Also, I think the reason why we got the Sombre class is precisely that they used the budget for a more diverse fleet in the finale. Those mining ship look like a lot of work, and those Romulan Vessels are also more than just one other model that is a kitbash.
I would have liked to see stealthy Enterprise era Romulan ships with some sort of tech that is not 100% cloaking, but an alternative that was more limited. Like a cloaking screen that is directional only. It would keep it hidden from a sensor in a single side, but if it was flanked, it would be seen by one of the two enemies, or even one enemy with a probe deployed. Full cloaking devices would be first seen on the Romulan Bird of Prey in Balance of Terror. And for God's sake, keep the submarine limitations as well, such as it being difficult to see out of a cloak, or that it is possible to lose control and implode as the cloaking energy control gets away from you, aka sinking and crushing in real life.
The Feds would have curbstomped the Romulans after the initial shock of invasion subsided. "The Praetors finest and best flagship" had a gimmick weapon not seen again (Probably cause it could be detonated by a phaser) simple impulse drive and a crappy cloak.....admittedly their forced singularity warp drive probably couldn't be detected. Unless it was meeting up with a mother ship. And again i hate the FUCKING PEW PEW WEAPONS we see post TOS
"Balance of Terror" is one of the best Star Trek episodes ever made, and almost none of it can be canon if this, (and ENTERPRISE) were canon. Frustrating, but perhaps unavoidable. This does, by looking like a bird so literally, reminds me negatively of the gargoyle-like Klingon BoP from DISCOVERY. But, Samuel's observation that the back does look like a distorted, complex version of the D'Deridex back makes sense. Assuming that the Romulan Star Empire is an empire worthy of the name, secretive though they are, a ship like this isn't so odd. Samuel's reasoning that the Balance of Terror prototype managed to have both cloaking and an improved, miniaturized version of the plasma weapon at least keeps a fig leaf for that classic TOS story. Yes, I sure wish that Star Trek ship designs liked windows less.
First off, I am not as hard a NuTrek critic as many others, and I am down with visually rebooting / modernizing elements (I actually can accept the updated BoP and even the CONNIE always looked that way) BUT.... I am not a fan of the flagship. it's way too literal to the point it looks comical. I maybe would be intimidated if it warps into my system but at the same time I would thing "Okay, they need to compensate for something... this is ridiculous". I do dig the wing form... but I think espcially the open mouth and the little leggies are too much...
Maybe we'll see Romulans again if they do a mirrorverse episode. I'm here for a mirror Pike. I'd kinda like to see a young mirror Lt Jim Kirk try to get rid of Una to become Pike's Number One so he can later stab Pike in the back too.
This might be heresy to say, but I never loved the original Romulan Bird of Prey. Without the Raptor decal, it basically looks like a Starfleet ship. It’s a saucer with struts and cylindrical nacelles. Perhaps another commenter knows, but was the original model built specifically for Balance of Terror, or was it a model they had lying around that was meant to be a Federation ship?
It was built specifically for balance of terror, but also meant to recur as the primary class of ship in the romulan fleet. What happened was the studio tried to cheat the designer out of money for the job, so he destroyed the model. That's why in every appearance after this, romulans just used the klingon ship models.
Early on in development it was supposed to be a plot point that it did look like a Federation ship. It was supposed to be troubling that the Romulans had somehow managed to steal technology from Starfleet and were now using it. That didn't make it into the finished episode.
Not happy with the Romulan retcon. That Romulan BOP in TOS was referred to as the literal flagship in the episode. It's the main reason the Romulans traded tech for the Klingon D7's. However if you ignore that CANON FACT, the episode was good.
Different vessels can be designated as the flagship at a given context or time. And as this was an alternative timeline, and given that the Romulan Praetor got involved in this incursion, her ship would have naturally assumed the role of flagship.
@@ThreeFiddy1701 It wasn't THAT alternate. If Pike had run down that ship and destroyedit, like Kirk did in the original timeline..that Romulan fleet wouldn't have showed up. So in the original timeline, if The Enterprise did not destroy the Romulan ship or cause it to self destruct, that Romulan fleet would have showed up. A small retcon, but a retcon none the less.
@@poseidon5003 The course of history changed 7 years prior to the Romulan incursion. You can begin with that Pike (and not Kirk) commanding the Enterprise beyond 2265 would have had some significant influence between the galactic powers. So there is plenty of artistic license , a different Romulan flagship rocking up compared to what we saw in BoT is just the tip of the iceberg.
@@ThreeFiddy1701 No. Pikes "survival" had nothing to do with it. Why would that affect Romulan policy or the Romulans at all? Pikes not Romulan. It's the same BOP from TOS. Same captain. Same lines. It was still the first contact with Romulans in 100 years regardless. IT was a RETCON. How would the Romulans be affected at all? They weren't. It's a full on retcon.
@@Excalibur01 Well, just the fact that they have a bird stamped on the ships is strange to me (especially the TOS version which is clearly a terrestrial bird) So I don't care anymore if this is extending to the design.
@@catoblepasomega At least it's not as evident as the Klingon BoP from STD. Also, it's a design that will hardly appear again, so there's no reason to worry so much about it.
I didn’t really like it. It seemed a bit clunky to me, like a klingon ship, not smooth the way Romulan ships I’ve seen in the past as they use to be made.
The Romulans did not have warp drive on their starships during the balance of terror incident. They did not get warp drive capable ships until their alliance with the Klingons in the enterprise incident episode.
Well, in context, it's so enormously unlikely, this, @John Hanavan , that 90 percent of lore later has chosen to ignore it. The ship that Kirk chases passes through SEVERAL systems, and a comet, and intends to return to Romulan space - a very tricky feat travelling only at sublight. And I think most of this comes down to a simple confusion of terminologies used: Scotty says the POWER is simple Impulse, with the implication this is some kind of fusion-like power system. There's little to say it refers to PROPULSION, but it is implied that power AND propulsion are inferior to that on the Enterprise. So the simplest retcon is that the ship does not use a 'warp' or an antimatter reactor, but can still achieve warp like velocities. Either way, the appearances of the Romulans in ST: Enterprise tended to imply they had pretty similar propulsion capabilities, anyway.
@@chrissonofpear1384 I guess the premise for the slower speed and the cloaking device was to simulate submarine warfare during WW II. Destroyers and Destroyer Escorts were considerably faster and more agile then submerged U-Boats, but the sub had both stealth and superior firepower versus the surface escorts. This tactical situation was modeled on the movie “The Enemy Below” which influenced both the action and narrative of the episode. The much slower speed was intentional but the bird of prey could have still been marginally light speed capable but inferior to both Klingon and Federation warp drives, hence the adoption of the D-7s in the Enterprise Incident.
I haven't watched a single episode of strange new worlds. I was scared it would screw canon. I can see I'm not wrong. They brought the romulans in before 'balance of terror'. It's dead to me. Enterprise was dead to me the moment it brought the Ferengi s in..., SNW is dead to me now that it brought the Romulans in before balance of terror.
I don’t like it: Way too much overkill for the era compared with even the volume of weapons (and size) of the D’deridex a century later. I mean the Scimitar was also overkill but I can accept it as a one-off innovation from the Remans. But how do the Romulans go from this to aftermarket D-7’s a year later? The dialogue in Balance of Terror specifically says the BoP is their flagship! Plus, how was this fleet just waiting around to warp in with the Praetor at the lead when Kirk in Balance of Terror hunted the lone Romulan ship for *much* longer straight into the Neutral Zone? Also, the whole fleet appearing exactly the right dramatic moment is becoming an extremely tired and overused trope.
The way I see it, in both timelines the Praetor was planning to invade the Federation provided certain conditions were met. She likely massed her fleet near the Neutral Zone, but just far enough in Romulan space so as to avoid detection by the Earth outposts, while the bird-of-prey was sent ahead to probe defenses and test the Federation's resolve. If the Federation defenses were easily destroyed and they showed no aggressive response then the time was ripe for an invasion. If the Federation was aggressive in its response, however, then an invasion might end in disaster for her and so called it off.
I can confirm i blinked and i missed it. Had no idea what this looked like until now. This felt like Copy&Paste Fleet version 2.0 for sure ...i was afraid that they even used the same ships as in Picard again, they cut away so fast from the Romulans as if they wanted to hide something. ...but it looks OK.
Yeah, the cloak being ‘new’ doesn’t quite ring true thanks to cloaking Klingons in Disco. Buuuut that revelation has been messed up for twenty years now since ENT. That show had Suliban AND Romulans with a cloak a century earlier. Trek canon is a little bit of a mess but it’s part of why it’s fun
Still doesn't explain why the Romulans have warp drives in this era. They aren't supposed to get them till they deal with the Klingons that give the Klingon Cloaks in exchange for the warp drive.
As a continuity reboot, I can appreciate the new designs. A lot more aesthetically pleasing than their previous attempts. There's no way any of this design language naturally leads into TOS though.
To be fair, modern TV technology doesn't either. The visual style of TOS was designed to be intelligible on a 10-inch black-and-white CRT with potato resolution.
@@katherineberger6329 This is why prequels are often a bad idea, better to leave them in a time capsule and treat them as they are; moving forward with new ideas. That said, DS9 did a good job respectfully enhancing the simple TOS aesthetic without making major alterations.
@@andrewkingham DS9 was also designed for slightly-less-potatoey potato TV (1960s TVs had the equivalent of 120i resolution, the very best TVs of the 90s had 480i and the average TV was still displaying at 240i). (also, the DS9 crew was building sets that had to fit seamlessly into existing footage - if they were building all-new footage that used TOS as a stepping-off point rather than Forrest Gumping an existing episode, they may have taken a different tack) Star Trek's visual style is to look as good as possible given the medium. Are these sets an exact replica? Obviously not. But they look like something that can plausibly link the ENT era and the movie era.
@@katherineberger6329 As I say, they gently enhanced the TOS aesthetic; but that's the reason why it worked as a retroactive episode. Discovery, or even New Worlds, makes large, sweeping stylistic changes fit the current aesthetic, and it can be jarring. Honestly, so did Enterprise. As an alternate continuity, or post-Nemesis design this would be great, but we're being asked to see this design language flowing into TOS, which it doesn't. Certainly pre-Enterprise Star Trek's visual style was to subtly enhance, but be respectful of the past.
@@andrewkingham That's a take. It's just not one I agree with. The concept of "canon" is one that is purely of interest and utility to fans. The use of old set-building techniques in tribute episodes aside, art is a process of reinterpretation and technical evolution, NOT of painstaking replication of a lost past (the latter is closer to archivism, but archivists seek to preserve important artifacts, not to recreate them whole-cloth and pass them as genuine articles). The obvious fakeness of TOS-era sets would show through in graphic detail on 10K digital files shot for 4K televisions and while we agree to ignore that for shows that were genuinely filmed in the 1960s, I do not believe that anyone would put up with it for more than an episode or two for a show filmed in 2022. Also, since the showrunners have mentioned the possibility of running SNW into Kirk's captaincy of the Enterprise (and taking into consideration the Short Trek "Ephraim and Dot"), I believe the intention is similar to that of the 1984 movie "Macross: Do You Remember Love" - the stories remain, but we're to treat the modernized visuals, which are relatively consistent with everything that's been made since Star Trek: The Motion Picture, as the look of the series.
Now this is what i expected to see from the most powerful Romulan starship in TOS
Like the damn thing looks like the logo of the nation
I was happy that this episode decided to bring in a variety of Romulan ships. It made sense that they had ships other than the classic Bird of Prey design. I would even say that TNG/DS9 used the D'Deridex WAY too much that it appeared that the Romulans only had one warship type. Picard Season 1 was guilty of the copy-pasta, but I was happy to see that everyone learned from that and decided to expand upon it.
I recall one of the ST (TOS) Comics had a class of Romulan warship called the 'Nova'==it was supposedly a 'battleship' sized warship, so it was large class of craft.
To be fair I think the next gen showed the most variety of romulan ships of any of the older shows. Tos: d7-looking and bird of prey.
Tng: D’deridex, scout, science
Ds9: D’deridex and shuttle
Voyager: D’deridex (though they did use a variant of the D’deridex and scout ships for some of the alien ships lol)
Enterprise: bird of prey and drone ship
TNG/DS9 had a very low budget
@@jarrodskufcagaming5203 True, but it wouldn't have taken much to do kitbashing to give some variety (they did some of it). I can't blame TNG/DS9 too much. It was at a time when they had to make ship based models (actual models for ships) at least before Star Trek Voyager came along and they did computer models.
@@superhayes256 It's true. TOS only had one ship. The original Romulan bird of prey was lost forcing them to use Klingon battle-cruisers for filming. Talk about ouch.
If this was a one off class of ship this would be like the Scimitar.
A super giant battle cruiser!
The flagship reminded me a bit of the Star Trek Online's Haakona &/or Ha'nom designs
I was thinking the same thing. Or the Condor class from the early Starfleet Command games.
Ship has to be 1 of 1. Designed as a flagship/status symbol. Looks real good though, agree that maybe a few less windows would have put it over the top.
If the ships is the political flagship the windows make sense. It's probably designed to be 'safe' for delegates and non military personnel to 'witness' Romulan' victories. It fits the intent of the ship as the 'safe' observation ship in a fleet that would probably be attacked last when surrounded by so many other ships.
You guys realize that the Sombre is an attempt to explain why we only saw Constitution style ships in TOS. To me it was a great way to address that without actually spelling it out
In the Ships of the fleet 2290-91. The Bonhomme Richard Class Was a variant as an Improved Constitution Class, It had different weapon systems and structural systems but looked exactly like a Constitution Class. In fact the weapon system was called the "Saber" system.
Even after almost a year I still hear about the loss of of the Bonhomme Richard I served on that ship. To see her burn down and decommissioned big loss.
Now if the federation knew the romulans had this ship and maybe a few streamlined versions of this I think that could justify both the federation class and the proxima class being build by starfleet
The flagship, if you look at it from a distance from the front, looks like the Romulan raptor emblem.
DS9 mentioned Plasma torpedoes when the Romulans built a base on a Bajorian moon
They meant the TOS (and now SNW)-style glowing ball of fiery plasma. By TNG/DS9/VOY, plasma torpedoes visual effects looked no different to photon torpedoes.
I was thinking more like the Klingon fleet arriving in "Vulcan Hello".
ok so
maybe the destabilized plasma torpedo was an experimental weapon *ON SUCH A SMALL SHIP* and that's what was being tested, basically with the T'liss type being pretty revolutionary having such a weapon that normally can only be placed on a battleship.
how's that sound?
Since we are talking an alternate future or timeline where Pike is still Captain of the Enterprise, isn't it logical that the Romulan ship design might also have changed a bit. Or maybe since we never saw in TOS the entire Romulan fleet and ship designs at that time, we also don't really know what kind of ships they got during that time period either.
Technically yes, nothing in this episode can be considered Prime since it is all a "what if" he is being presented from the Time Crystal.
That said, it's kind of hard to believe Pike sending letters out to a bunch of young Fed recruits could have an impact on Romulan starship design.
@@TomNardi Even the smallest change in the past can have rippling effects in the future. For example Kirk not being Captain of the Enterprise might have changed all of his carrier prior and everything we saw in TOS. Another example is the possibility changes not just for those cadets but the entire galaxy and beyond, i.e. in decision making were a Romulan ship design gets dumped in favor of another. We consider small changes more or less irrelevant being used to the TV way of addressing future effect, but in reality it would be enormous. That's why I really don't like the mirror universe logic as well.
Surprisingly, these new ships work well with my personal head canon of what Rumulan ships in the TOS/TMP era would look like, what is probably due to these designs being reminiscent to SFC/SFB/FASA and others designs.
The lack of obvious warp engines make it far far too advanced for this era, even the D-Rex has obvious warp nacelles
Could be the warp engines are housed within the wings. Or possibly the "claws" at the bottom of the ship.
I agree that the windows are too much. The design is good but the windows make it look colossal, like even bigger than the D'deridex. It doesn't really feel like a ship in the same era as the Bird of Prey though.
Or maybe it is. Like I’m cool with Star Trek doing a reboot with scale and size and and tech. Star Trek fans take TOS way to seriously for a tv show that was low budget.
The side view reminds me of the Searcher from Buck Rodgers 1980s, and the front view of Hawk's ship from Flash Gordon.
I like the windows on this, as given that it's probably the Praetor's custom ship, it may well have diplomatic and social roles.
That first picture of the flagship kinda reminds me of the Condor class from the early Starfleet Command PC games.
A suitably imposing, and at the same time quite aesetically pleasing, flagship for a leader of a interstellar nation.
And as a bonus also resembles some of the FASA ships. I'll happily forgive such minor details as too many windows (which I agree with btw, she definetly could have used less of them) for a overall design this good.
a better flagship for the romulan empire than what the charon was for the terran empire.
i don't mind the open beak because it was for a specific purpose(and enhances the angry bird effect)
i liked the hint of empty space separating the spine from the neck, reminiscent of later romulan designs with large hollow spaces.
the back view somehow made me think of the discovery klingon bird of prey, with the somewhat un-aerodynamic curving.
like it's meant to slow it down in atmosphere.
Acually all the new Designs in the Romulan Flett where amazingly designed to be similar in Look to the old Bird of Prey and also forshadowing the later TNG Designs. Well done, production team. Feels good after all.
If they put this much work into the ship design, you're most likely going to see it again in season 2.
As some other commenters mentioned, this is absolutely a one off ship and is more status and intimidation than anything else. As for the absurd amount of windows, I think that likely hints toward this effectively being a mobile home to the Romulan Empire's government and military leadership/administration. It's basically a flying capital that's ridiculously heavily armed.
I love the bird of prey, and the other design at a glance seems to fit the same aesthetic. This, however, looks far too organic, maybe even more than the TNG warbird. In this era, that strikes me as incongruous. I’d have preferred to see something like what we see in the Fleet Command mobile game.
I did not have a Picard flashback but I definitely had an STD Vulcan Hello flashback. What is about all those huge ships in nuTrek? It looked like a Klingon Cleave ship. Also, wasn't the Bird-of-Prey supposed to be the plasma torpedoe prototype? That was supposed to be the reason why it was never seen again.
I always thought the D'deridex class was the Romulans version of the D-7 class cruisers the Klingons sold the Romulans back during the TOS era, but with the design evolved with Romulan design philosophy. This looks like an all Romulan design. The Fasa ST rpg had some nice bird-like ship designs which this ship reminds me of like the V-27 or V-30.
Romulans : “Federation mining ships, eh? Not a fair fight for us. Quick, call in the Narada!”
The Romulan Praetor's ship looks great
The only thing thazt ship misses are some discernible warp nacelles on the end of the wing. While it might break with the bird illusion, it would help tying it in with the original BoP.
We just needed Birds of Prey and a carrier unit to move them at warp speed. The carrier could have been a bridge to the D'deridex-class we see in TNG.
Straight up looks like a birds head. They even have eyes on it
Honestly, this thing's design kinda makes the Scimitar make a little more sense. Like the Romulan mindset is "Have the biggest, stealthiest, gun around so the first shot is always the only shot." They've formed a military doctrine around tactical superweapons!
If new Star Wars can look like old Star Wars, why can't new Star Trek look like old Star Trek?
I think it has to many rows of windows, not that it's too big, just the number seems overkill.
Got remember that just because they Romulans are humanoid does not mean the Romulus version of the hawk / eagle looks like those of earth. Thusly the ship design for a bird like vessel may be more alien.
🖖😎👍Very nicely well done and very well informatively explained and executed as always guys 👌.
I've noticed that USS Farragut is missing name and designation decals on 3D model.
I personally really love this ship design, along with the other new Romulan warship.
I can’t wait to see this ship in STO in like two years lol
@trekyards First things first... you have a typo in the overlay, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to say "alpha", and not "aplha" 😉
But I gotta say I absolutely love this ship, it might be one of my favorite designs in SNW so far
This should be compared to the Scimitar rather than a D'deridex. "Stupidly powerful flagship of the head of state, also equipped with a new semi-experimental super weapon"
From the side, the bird shape vaguely reminded me of Hawk's fighter from the old Buck Rogers TV show
It reminds me of the Thundercats emblem!
Is it me, or does the Romulan Praetor's ship have some vibes of the Terran Empire's ISS Charon from Discovery? I think that makes sense, because they are both special starships for the Supreme Leader of their respective Empires.
I love it! And it would make sens that this ships be in service for a long time... imagine it beside a TNG warbird... I imagine it might be almost as big ... I don't mind teh windows toomuch, it gives-it a flying palace vibe appropriate for the Preator
I'd call this a 23rd century warbird, as opposed to the smaller Romulan birds of prey.
Maybe the ship that is being tested in TOS/This episode was the down scaling the tech for the plasma torpedo
It wasn't what I expected, but it worked. Just wish it had a Warbird or Stormbird fur for some nostalgia (apart from the BoP)
Didn't the Romulans use cloaking technology in Star Trek Enterprise?
Love the design. I wish they would slow down battles in the newer shows so we can actually see the details of these things. It was too zoomed out and too fast.
Excellent review gentlemen. This Romulan design is nice. No complaints. It fits the era, and keeps with the general Warbird motif used by the Romulans. Not bad.
Bottom right pic looks like a Vorlon ship from Babylon 5
This thing looks like the Falconzord from the 90's Power Rangers movie.
I had Picard flashbacks immediately
I really enjoyed the season finale. The first episode of TOS I watched as a kid was Balance of Terror. I liked the Romulan ships and the TOS vibes I got from them.
How does this compare to the Klingon Ships that appeared in Disco? is there a linking path, where by the Klingons get this design in the future and explain how there so different.
I feel like the wings still need a bit more work. Maybe a bit more paneling to make them look like wing feathers, or extend them further out. Some of these images are giving me bat vibes, especially on the back view, just because it's too smooth. Wouldn't be surprised to see this come into STO soon with a 25th century variant. A 32nd century update would look awesome too.
It looks like a giant space turkey
I didn't catch the mouth either on the show. This ship is insane! I love it lol. It's like a mechagodzilla kaiju rival. Like others have pointed out it fits their symbol with eagle grabbing Remus and Romulus. The lady that played the Praetor was also excellent. Scary as f like this ship. I agree with the windows, a lot of star trek online ships have this problem. They have a lot of windows on the D'Deridex as well in the interior areas so maybe not unheard of but the flagshps windows would perhaps be really large by comparasin.
Good afternoon gentlemen, Thanks for the closer look at the ship, I thought they maybe from STAR TREK ARMADA II But not the Praetor's
I thougth this was the Terror bird xD!
I don't think it was to VFX company that said "We f'ed up in Picard" - they were just building what the art team of the show wanted. I at all, that was what the art department and the showrunners said. Also, I think the reason why we got the Sombre class is precisely that they used the budget for a more diverse fleet in the finale. Those mining ship look like a lot of work, and those Romulan Vessels are also more than just one other model that is a kitbash.
It's not bad, but for me it looks too curvy and organic for the TOS time period.
You can't say that with a sample size of one. We only have one example of Romulan design in the TOS period.
A physical model from Eaglemoss? Not anymore! :-(
Like Samuel said ,too much bird than ship
I love the design, But I do agree to many windows
I really like this design. It's a shame we won't see it again. At least we shouldn't see it again.
Hey guys, your monster maroon video is marked as private. We can't watch it.
it was meant to come out tommorow, we only.do 1 release a day
@@power543 Ok, thank you!
wow, it wasn't 100 bird of preys
I would have liked to see stealthy Enterprise era Romulan ships with some sort of tech that is not 100% cloaking, but an alternative that was more limited. Like a cloaking screen that is directional only. It would keep it hidden from a sensor in a single side, but if it was flanked, it would be seen by one of the two enemies, or even one enemy with a probe deployed. Full cloaking devices would be first seen on the Romulan Bird of Prey in Balance of Terror. And for God's sake, keep the submarine limitations as well, such as it being difficult to see out of a cloak, or that it is possible to lose control and implode as the cloaking energy control gets away from you, aka sinking and crushing in real life.
The Feds would have curbstomped the Romulans after the initial shock of invasion subsided.
"The Praetors finest and best flagship" had a gimmick weapon not seen again (Probably cause it could be detonated by a phaser) simple impulse drive and a crappy cloak.....admittedly their forced singularity warp drive probably couldn't be detected. Unless it was meeting up with a mother ship.
And again i hate the FUCKING PEW PEW WEAPONS we see post TOS
"Balance of Terror" is one of the best Star Trek episodes ever made, and almost none of it can be canon if this, (and ENTERPRISE) were canon. Frustrating, but perhaps unavoidable.
This does, by looking like a bird so literally, reminds me negatively of the gargoyle-like Klingon BoP from DISCOVERY. But, Samuel's observation that the back does look like a distorted, complex version of the D'Deridex back makes sense. Assuming that the Romulan Star Empire is an empire worthy of the name, secretive though they are, a ship like this isn't so odd.
Samuel's reasoning that the Balance of Terror prototype managed to have both cloaking and an improved, miniaturized version of the plasma weapon at least keeps a fig leaf for that classic TOS story.
Yes, I sure wish that Star Trek ship designs liked windows less.
I don't see how this episode makes Balance of Terror not canon? Outside Pike knowing that event may potentially occur in the future.
First off, I am not as hard a NuTrek critic as many others, and I am down with visually rebooting / modernizing elements (I actually can accept the updated BoP and even the CONNIE always looked that way) BUT.... I am not a fan of the flagship. it's way too literal to the point it looks comical. I maybe would be intimidated if it warps into my system but at the same time I would thing "Okay, they need to compensate for something... this is ridiculous".
I do dig the wing form... but I think espcially the open mouth and the little leggies are too much...
Maybe we'll see Romulans again if they do a mirrorverse episode.
I'm here for a mirror Pike. I'd kinda like to see a young mirror Lt Jim Kirk try to get rid of Una to become Pike's Number One so he can later stab Pike in the back too.
It kinda looks like the Ha'pax warbird from Star Trek Online if they made a more organic subclass of it.
Was the Farragut a Miranda class?
Future STO lockbox ships
This might be heresy to say, but I never loved the original Romulan Bird of Prey. Without the Raptor decal, it basically looks like a Starfleet ship. It’s a saucer with struts and cylindrical nacelles. Perhaps another commenter knows, but was the original model built specifically for Balance of Terror, or was it a model they had lying around that was meant to be a Federation ship?
It was built specifically for balance of terror, but also meant to recur as the primary class of ship in the romulan fleet. What happened was the studio tried to cheat the designer out of money for the job, so he destroyed the model. That's why in every appearance after this, romulans just used the klingon ship models.
Early on in development it was supposed to be a plot point that it did look like a Federation ship. It was supposed to be troubling that the Romulans had somehow managed to steal technology from Starfleet and were now using it. That didn't make it into the finished episode.
what happened to beam phasers instead they have pew pew phasers i hare that
This ship vs ISS Charon
TOS era warbird?
Not happy with the Romulan retcon. That Romulan BOP in TOS was referred to as the literal flagship in the episode. It's the main reason the Romulans traded tech for the Klingon D7's.
However if you ignore that CANON FACT, the episode was good.
Different vessels can be designated as the flagship at a given context or time. And as this was an alternative timeline, and given that the Romulan Praetor got involved in this incursion, her ship would have naturally assumed the role of flagship.
@@ThreeFiddy1701 It wasn't THAT alternate. If Pike had run down that ship and destroyedit, like Kirk did in the original timeline..that Romulan fleet wouldn't have showed up. So in the original timeline, if The Enterprise did not destroy the Romulan ship or cause it to self destruct, that Romulan fleet would have showed up. A small retcon, but a retcon none the less.
Exactly. "We are beaten The praetors finest and best flagship....beaten"
@@poseidon5003 The course of history changed 7 years prior to the Romulan incursion. You can begin with that Pike (and not Kirk) commanding the Enterprise beyond 2265 would have had some significant influence between the galactic powers. So there is plenty of artistic license , a different Romulan flagship rocking up compared to what we saw in BoT is just the tip of the iceberg.
@@ThreeFiddy1701 No. Pikes "survival" had nothing to do with it. Why would that affect Romulan policy or the Romulans at all? Pikes not Romulan. It's the same BOP from TOS. Same captain. Same lines. It was still the first contact with Romulans in 100 years regardless. IT was a RETCON. How would the Romulans be affected at all? They weren't. It's a full on retcon.
Judas Priest: Screaming for Vengeance album cover
ruclips.net/video/G6gI2MBRmzw/видео.html
A bit too literal with the 'bird' design, I think.
They literally have a "bird" stamped under their ships. So, for me, the design is not very literal as the painting.
@@jeand5316 Sure but the TOS bird of pray to the Warbirds, they don't actually LOOK like birds. They have the bird symbol but not in a literal sense
@@Excalibur01 Well, just the fact that they have a bird stamped on the ships is strange to me (especially the TOS version which is clearly a terrestrial bird) So I don't care anymore if this is extending to the design.
@@jeand5316 The difference between noseart on a plane and making your plane actually an animal.
@@catoblepasomega At least it's not as evident as the Klingon BoP from STD. Also, it's a design that will hardly appear again, so there's no reason to worry so much about it.
Is a Star Trek theme park possible
I didn’t really like it. It seemed a bit clunky to me, like a klingon ship, not smooth the way Romulan ships I’ve seen in the past as they use to be made.
Its a warbird.
The Romulans did not have warp drive on their starships during the balance of terror incident. They did not get warp drive capable ships until their alliance with the Klingons in the enterprise incident episode.
Well, in context, it's so enormously unlikely, this, @John Hanavan , that 90 percent of lore later has chosen to ignore it. The ship that Kirk chases passes through SEVERAL systems, and a comet, and intends to return to Romulan space - a very tricky feat travelling only at sublight.
And I think most of this comes down to a simple confusion of terminologies used: Scotty says the POWER is simple Impulse, with the implication this is some kind of fusion-like power system. There's little to say it refers to PROPULSION, but it is implied that power AND propulsion are inferior to that on the Enterprise.
So the simplest retcon is that the ship does not use a 'warp' or an antimatter reactor, but can still achieve warp like velocities. Either way, the appearances of the Romulans in ST: Enterprise tended to imply they had pretty similar propulsion capabilities, anyway.
@@chrissonofpear1384 I guess the premise for the slower speed and the cloaking device was to simulate submarine warfare during WW II. Destroyers and Destroyer Escorts were considerably faster and more agile then submerged U-Boats, but the sub had both stealth and superior firepower versus the surface escorts. This tactical situation was modeled on the movie “The Enemy Below” which influenced both the action and narrative of the episode. The much slower speed was intentional but the bird of prey could have still been marginally light speed capable but inferior to both Klingon and Federation warp drives, hence the adoption of the D-7s in the Enterprise Incident.
So how did they bomb Earth then?
I haven't watched a single episode of strange new worlds. I was scared it would screw canon. I can see I'm not wrong. They brought the romulans in before 'balance of terror'. It's dead to me. Enterprise was dead to me the moment it brought the Ferengi s in..., SNW is dead to me now that it brought the Romulans in before balance of terror.
It’s set during Balance of Terror as a ‘What If?’ Pike was there instead of Kirk.
I don’t like it: Way too much overkill for the era compared with even the volume of weapons (and size) of the D’deridex a century later. I mean the Scimitar was also overkill but I can accept it as a one-off innovation from the Remans. But how do the Romulans go from this to aftermarket D-7’s a year later? The dialogue in Balance of Terror specifically says the BoP is their flagship!
Plus, how was this fleet just waiting around to warp in with the Praetor at the lead when Kirk in Balance of Terror hunted the lone Romulan ship for *much* longer straight into the Neutral Zone?
Also, the whole fleet appearing exactly the right dramatic moment is becoming an extremely tired and overused trope.
The way I see it, in both timelines the Praetor was planning to invade the Federation provided certain conditions were met. She likely massed her fleet near the Neutral Zone, but just far enough in Romulan space so as to avoid detection by the Earth outposts, while the bird-of-prey was sent ahead to probe defenses and test the Federation's resolve. If the Federation defenses were easily destroyed and they showed no aggressive response then the time was ripe for an invasion. If the Federation was aggressive in its response, however, then an invasion might end in disaster for her and so called it off.
She - eh... hmm.
SILVERHAWKS
The IRW Trekyards
This doesn't speak Romulan to me...
I can confirm i blinked and i missed it. Had no idea what this looked like until now.
This felt like Copy&Paste Fleet version 2.0 for sure ...i was afraid that they even used the same ships as in Picard again, they cut away so fast from the Romulans as if they wanted to hide something. ...but it looks OK.
Yeah, the cloak being ‘new’ doesn’t quite ring true thanks to cloaking Klingons in Disco. Buuuut that revelation has been messed up for twenty years now since ENT. That show had Suliban AND Romulans with a cloak a century earlier. Trek canon is a little bit of a mess but it’s part of why it’s fun
New types of cloaking technology may being used here, technology advances... even if perception of it doesn't.
Still doesn't explain why the Romulans have warp drives in this era. They aren't supposed to get them till they deal with the Klingons that give the Klingon Cloaks in exchange for the warp drive.
Picard fleet was not a foul up. Consolidating a fleet...makes sense.
Strg+C, Strg+V ... = FLEET ... pff no, LAME.
As a continuity reboot, I can appreciate the new designs. A lot more aesthetically pleasing than their previous attempts. There's no way any of this design language naturally leads into TOS though.
To be fair, modern TV technology doesn't either. The visual style of TOS was designed to be intelligible on a 10-inch black-and-white CRT with potato resolution.
@@katherineberger6329 This is why prequels are often a bad idea, better to leave them in a time capsule and treat them as they are; moving forward with new ideas. That said, DS9 did a good job respectfully enhancing the simple TOS aesthetic without making major alterations.
@@andrewkingham DS9 was also designed for slightly-less-potatoey potato TV (1960s TVs had the equivalent of 120i resolution, the very best TVs of the 90s had 480i and the average TV was still displaying at 240i).
(also, the DS9 crew was building sets that had to fit seamlessly into existing footage - if they were building all-new footage that used TOS as a stepping-off point rather than Forrest Gumping an existing episode, they may have taken a different tack)
Star Trek's visual style is to look as good as possible given the medium. Are these sets an exact replica? Obviously not. But they look like something that can plausibly link the ENT era and the movie era.
@@katherineberger6329 As I say, they gently enhanced the TOS aesthetic; but that's the reason why it worked as a retroactive episode. Discovery, or even New Worlds, makes large, sweeping stylistic changes fit the current aesthetic, and it can be jarring. Honestly, so did Enterprise. As an alternate continuity, or post-Nemesis design this would be great, but we're being asked to see this design language flowing into TOS, which it doesn't. Certainly pre-Enterprise Star Trek's visual style was to subtly enhance, but be respectful of the past.
@@andrewkingham That's a take. It's just not one I agree with. The concept of "canon" is one that is purely of interest and utility to fans. The use of old set-building techniques in tribute episodes aside, art is a process of reinterpretation and technical evolution, NOT of painstaking replication of a lost past (the latter is closer to archivism, but archivists seek to preserve important artifacts, not to recreate them whole-cloth and pass them as genuine articles). The obvious fakeness of TOS-era sets would show through in graphic detail on 10K digital files shot for 4K televisions and while we agree to ignore that for shows that were genuinely filmed in the 1960s, I do not believe that anyone would put up with it for more than an episode or two for a show filmed in 2022.
Also, since the showrunners have mentioned the possibility of running SNW into Kirk's captaincy of the Enterprise (and taking into consideration the Short Trek "Ephraim and Dot"), I believe the intention is similar to that of the 1984 movie "Macross: Do You Remember Love" - the stories remain, but we're to treat the modernized visuals, which are relatively consistent with everything that's been made since Star Trek: The Motion Picture, as the look of the series.
Dig it