If a PHEV fits your driving needs then it's great! We have two Chevy Volts. They go 50 miles without even starting the gas engine. Some of us still can't afford a Tesla, BTW.
I drove my Volt 4k miles before filling the gas tank. It cost much less than a new Leaf after incentives. I get a max range of 72 miles on battery, but love the option of taking a longer trip with the gas. A small inexpensive phev is an excellent entry point to EVs!
@@fairman14065 I've recently bought a 2019. Sometimes it will go 60 miles on a charge. My wife's 2013 forced her to burn half a tank because the gas was 6 months old. The computer keeps track of it.
That's essentially it. An EV with 300 miles or so of range which is what the Ioniq gets and it's more on the affordable side of things If I get a used PHEV, it's at least cheaper than buying an Ioniq. For me, a PHEV would be great for commuting and then also driving to my parent's house. I am however talking about buying used PHEVs more than buying new ones I see it as you just have around £15-20 worth of fuel in there (with today's prices), and you don't have to worry about the fuel going stale
My previous car was a Prius since I wanted something more economical for my daily commute round the M25. I used to play the "how long can I go without the petrol engine cutting in" game and it was absolutely my gateway drug to a full BEV. The Prius was replaced with a Tesla Model 3 SR+ which has fully satisfied those cravings for a smooth, quiet electric drive.
thats the crux that a lot of people miss. BEVs are SO much nicer to drive. I drive locally most of the time on twisty country roads. In full regen/1 pedal drive mode its so much better than constant gear shifting. On the motorway with the adaptive cruise its more relaxing on a long drive. ( ive driven more than 15 hours in a day and wasnt wrecked the next day. Same journey in a manual petrol and im not recovered until 24 hours later. Stop/start traffic the car just sorts it out and i occasionally just have thumb the button on the steering wheel to get it going. Manual petrol you are considering a hip replacement op after an hour or so.
The anti-PHEV on this video is not surprising but disappointing. 1. With batteries materials in limited supply you can build 4 PHEV with (35-50 mile range) for the same battery size as 1 BEV with 250 miles. With most journeys less than 40 miles (US) you'll have a bigger impact on total CO2 emissions 2. Yes you're carrying an engine that's not used most of the time but in a BEV you are carrying 4 times the battery that you're not using most of the time! 3. Yes PHEV has an engine with many moving parts but engines have been refined and are overall reliable so this argument is moot 4. The fuel issue was solved by pressurizing the tank so the fuel will last at least a year 5. You don't need fast charging on a PHEV - the idea is you charge it at home, Yes BEV's can be better but they are not for everyone (yet). Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good!
I find the "BEV only!" attitude so elitist and irritating. A PHEV is a brilliant way to help more households slash their emissions without a huge investment. Rather than 100 kwh of battery being consumed by a single (and usually very expensive) BEV, auto makers can split that up 5 ways and build 5 PHEVs with a 20kwh battery. That would allow 5 households to enjoy 50 gas-free miles every day, while only burning gas for occasional road trips. PHEVs don't require building a EV charger network, and at home you don't need a fast charger - you can just plug it into a standard outlet and it will charge overnight. They are a turn key solution to slashing emissions. If the government promoted PHEV adoption, we could slash emissions now. Instead we're creating huge price pressure on battery prices because of these "BEV only!" folks that are convinced that shoving 100 kwh batteries into every single car is the "only" solution. It is not, and it's a very wasteful use of rare minerals, as 80 if those kwh are rarely used. Share them with 4 other cars instead! Enough with this battery hogging mentality. PHEVs are more practical, require no charger infrastructure, and far more affordable to build. There aren't enough batteries to support everyone going full EV. Continuing to ignore this reality is only going to inflate battery demand and inflate prices - making even PHEVs too expensive for most households. Let's instead "share the battery cells!" And encourage more 20 kWh PHEV adoption to slash global gas consumption more quickly and affordably.
BEV owners tend to have the follower mindset and a constant need to justify their purchase due to low self esteem. Just do what everyone else does: ignore them.
A regular hybrid is probably still the best option for someone who lives in an apartment and has no good charging-at-home options. I also see many people dismiss PHEVs as being too compromised - and that can make sense from the perspective of someone who lives in a more urban built out area with good car charging options, which many people do. But a PHEV can make a lot more sense for people who live in rural areas and occasionally need to travel long distances. I own an i3 Rex and I use the ICE once every couple months, often travelling to places that have little to no charging options.
I have a Toyota Chr Hybrid, love it and I judge it worthwhile as I went from 35mpg in my old Mazda to 57-63mpg+ in the hybrid, hopefully the next car in a few years will be full electric, and hopefully the charging network will have improved and expanded by then.
Same here, a year ago I went from a 2009 diesel CRV to a 2017 C-HR self charging hybrid and it’s brilliant. Average 58mpg but can get into high 60’s. Yes I would like a pure electric car, but simply couldn’t afford one as what I would want is twice the price. I will keep the C-HR for a few years & then change. Point worth noting, I bought used so the car already existed and so CO2 had already been used building it.
One of the reasons dealers would resist selling EV’s is the problems involved with getting technicians that are capable of repairing them. The basic EV training required by the manufacturers is based around working safely rather than actually understanding and learning the necessary skills to carry out repairs. Manufacturers tend to steer technicians toward changing major components under manufacturers guidance rather than teaching proper diagnostic skills. What this means for the customer is extremely long repair times sometimes months, and once out of warranty period, extremely expensive repair costs and for the dealer that has to deal with the customers who rightfully expect the same level of service they had with their ICE car, it’s just not worth the hassle. I drive an MG5 and I’m a retired EV qualified vehicle technician and absolutely love driving my EV and would never go back, but when talking with my local dealer they admitted to me that they have but one technician qualified to work on the EV’s decided by lottery rather than the technician himself and a short conversation made it clear that his experience/expertise was limited so much so that I was asked if I wanted a job and I’m a 70 year old fart…..
I’ve driven a Honda Clarity PHEV for 3 years which has been a wonderful transition. It has allowed me to drive 90% electric while waiting for full electric car technology to mature with options from many manufacturers.
Live in a house perchance? And, majority of your journeys are local, maybe? Without this information it is hard to tell whether this would stand for "most car owners at the moment".
@@aacmove Yes, I live in a standalone house and 90% or more of my driving is local. In addition, I have a large solar array and a level two charger. What works for me does not work for everyone.
PHEV is great due to incomplete infrastructure for electric car charging stations. In the city I live, Hyundai has a rescue service for their make EV owners. When your Hyundai EV runs out of battery and stranded in road, you can phone the emergency service. They will drive a rescue car to your location and use the rescue car's battery to charge your car's battery. You do not need that if you drive a PHEV.
I have a Toyota Yaris Hybrid and for what I need it works very well, the fuel economy is really good (has never gone below 55mpg) and it is cool running on battery power in the city. However, my next car will definitely be BEV!
@@toby9999 I bought a 5 year old Toyota Auris TS Hybrid in 2020, for 10.000 euro. Absolutely nothing wrong with it and a very decent fuel economy. I think that now the fleet-sales of EV's are on the rise, there will be plenty of ex-fleet hybrids of 3, 4 or 5 years old coming onto the second hand market. Here in Europe, ex-fleet cars are usually well maintained, low mileage and high specs. And decent price too. And the looks and technology of three to five years ago, isn't old-fashioned yet. So all in all quite an attractive alternative to buying new.
55mpg is basically what I got from my 2005 Peugeot 206SW. There are more recent diesel cars which achieve far better mpg than that. It's hard to se what you're gaining by having an expensive and complex hybrid.
I got one of these for my parents. It was good for the very limited amount of driving they did although I certainly wouldn't say it always does better than 55mpg. You also have to be very wary of the 12v battery running down if you leave it standing for a few days.
Great conversation and interesting to hear your thinking ….. however as the owner of a ‘self charging’ Toyota hybrid I have to say that out here in the countryside of rural Cornwall a ‘self charging’ hybrid makes a lot of sense. With minimal charging network available the Toyota system just makes sense, giving you excellent fuel economy and low CO2 emissions while having no range anxiety for longer trips. I would agree with you entirely about the benefits of a BEV if I was living in a city area with good charging facilities, but the reality of living outside cities is that the network is just not good enough yet.
@@ianmurray250 This is a question that the industry and government need to ask. There are a reasonable percentage of homes that could not have home charging. I 100% can not. My mums house has its own parking space, but it is separated from the property by a public pathway. The parking space is also technically still council property. My Dads place would involve resurfacing a long disused dirt track and knocking down not only his shed and his immediate neighbours sheds but sheds, garages and fences along the entire 1/8 mile track. The track belongs to everybody who backs onto it for the bit that they back onto. A lot of the garages have become irrelevant down that track with cars getting so much bigger over the years. There is still a very long way to go before BEV can be relevant for everyone at the same time.
I recently went to a KIA dealership to test drive the E-Niro but they kept pushing me to go with the hybrid and kept telling me the EVs were a waste of money. Even after telling them multiple times, I was not interested in any form of ICE, they still kept push me to at least take a hybrid for a test drive. In the end I gave up and said sure. Surprise surprise, the hybrid was just what I expected (because I had driven one before for a month as a hire car AND I told them this). Ended up walking out getting no further as the dealer wouldn't stop pushing the hybrid and kept pushing about how much I wouldn't want the EV. Walked out after over an hour of trying to get the test drive for the EV (that I booked in advance for by the way). Some of these dealers are a total waste of time.
I think it's good to get more people using electric propulsion for their day to day. A plug-in hybrid is the best way to do that. For a BEV, you can build 10 plug-in hybrids.
Just went from full electric to self charging hybrid. Can't get a charger at home, allocated parking space is 50m away. Rapid public charger are starting to cost more than petrol or diesel, sick of having to go to Asda at 10pm at night to do 40mins of shopping to charge the car. People are getting aggressive at public rapid charger because EV are increasing but public charger isn't increasing as fast. Dump the EV and go for Hybrid, cost about the same and I don't need to take into account of 2 hours of service having double lunch for long drives.
Greetings from Canada. You are right about Gasoline (Petrol) breaking down over time. This should not be a surprise as it takes quite a bit of processing to prepare gasoline. Essentially the more volatile components escape into the atmosphere. Fuel stabilizers help, but they only delay the inevitable. Gasoline left long enough, smells like varnish. Additionally, the blending of gasoline varies depending on the time of the year, at least here in Canada - more precisely its formulation varies depending on the likely temperature at which it will be consumed. Diesel fuel also deteriorates with age. As an engineer doing Disaster Recovery Planning this is problematic. Typically, most emergency power plants only have enough fuel storage to last for 24-72 hours depending on the degree of risk for securing further deliveries during an emergency.
Talking to a few people recently I’ve realised there are some that initials think ‘self charging hybrids’ mean the battery charges from the wheels. That’s probably why your neighbour thought he wouldn’t need petrol
Maybe I am in minority, but I consider sensible range PHEV still best for me: nightly charges for town use, fuel for longer, but quite rare journeys (with less consumption at that). For the longer journeys the BEV infra is not good enough yet in my regions of interest, so that (the BEV infra) seems to be a key deciding factor whether or not a BEV is best for your use cases. In the areas where all infra is equal (most of urban USA and Western EU), indeed a BEV makes more sense, especially with the newer models with fast charging.
After returning from a long journey using public chargers at service stations, eating expensive crap food while the car charges,, dealing with broken chargers, not enough chargers, getting soaked, being moaned at by the wife and paying 70p per kw. I'm convinced that unless you're doing local driving and can charge using your home charger, I would stay away from EVs. Theyre expensive and to be honest, the journey going south was stressful and I spent the last few days of my holiday thinking about the return leg up north. Ok I get a low BIK company car rate which is great, but after that I don't see the benefit.
For a minute, imagine you are living in central Canada and it is 200 miles to your destination and -35C outside. You will appreciate the IC aspect of your hybrid if for the engine heat if nothing else. As for the complexity, that is another issue. The best solution is probably to have an appropriately sized IC vehicle for the time being. In this case, it six to be single because of the insurance cost if nothing else.
Actually a 48V mild hybrid DOES just run on electric only BUT only when you are stopped. The engine switches off and the car maintains everything running using the 48V battery (fans, radio, aircon, heated seats etc). So a 48V mild hybrid won’t DRIVE without the engine but it does operate while stopped with the engine off. Drove a really long way, to Leeds or something. 200miles. Hahaha. No a really long way is what’s common in Australia 500, 800, 1000, 1500+ km. Why is no one talking about HEV/HFCEV hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles? They are better than any of the other options. You can’t say Get a Prius rather than a large PHEV SUV as a Prius won’t suit someone who needs a 7 seater. A VW EUPP won’t suit someone who needs an off-road 4WD vehicle.
Great explanations, clarifies the debate. One missing comment on the fact that quite a few PHEV owners simply never bother to plug it, which is a shame and give these cars an ugly reputation in some countries: polluting with a state subsidy...(CH). Besides, I disagree with the comment on the useless range extender on BMW i3s. They allow to max out your battery use without ever being worried of not making it home. Maybe they are used for just a few km every other week, but then they are such a stress saving accessory. To this day the i3 with a REx remains the best ever compromise. It will become a cult car I believe. Buy one before they turn the production line off for good this summer.
Hybrids still have a mainstay in today's world as we move forward with phasing out gas only cars with in the next 10-15 years. Sure you still have both a gas engine and the hybrid battery but in most major cities; hybrids spend more time in "ev mode" than they do running the engine while sitting and moving in slow traffic. Boston for example; I was gridlocked for nearly 3 hours leaving a concert at Fenway park a few years ago and about 70-80% of that time, the gas engine on my Prius wasn't kicking on until the hybrid battery depleted and came back on to recharge. Sitting in traffic or slow moving traffic, I've would've wasted so much gas in a non hybrid while having a hybrid to conserve that gas when needed is a money money saver. Move forward a few years later and I have a RAV4 Hybrid and most of my commutes between errands and work I managed over 40+ mpg in the warm weather and low to mid 30s in the winter. Having a gas model car of that size, there is no way I'd be getting that type of MPG and end result, I'd be spending more at the pump for more frequent fill ups. I've got 400 - almost 600 miles on a tank of gas before needing to fill up again. My last car was a Corolla which barely got 300 miles out of a tank. Hybrids have a place still and until more reliable long range evs that charge at a fast rate that's actually affordable to the average person; especially in the States, Hybrids and plug in hybrids will be here to stay until prices for EVs go down and sooner or later; and when the chip problem is resolved. "The self charging" hybrid is a good marketing ploy because even now in 2022; so many people who don't know cars or don't know how hybrids work. So many hybrid owners share the same stories of having friends/family/etc asking them how do they charge their hybrid? And owners explaining you don't need to plug it in. And its a shame that a lot of American's, especially southern Americans are pure coal burning diesel heads and are anti hybrid/ev or having the huge misconception that Hybrid cars aren't reliable which Toyota has a proven record of reliability every year for over 20 years with their Prius and now other models in their line up that are Hybrid are proving their reliability as well. So many cab drivers in the major cities see well over 300,000-500,000 on their Prius taxis on the original battery. Toyota Hybrids are known to have less moving parts than traditional gas engines and the cost of ownership of Toyota hybrids have proven year after year to be dramatically cheaper than their gas counterparts. Having a tiny 3 cylinder petrol/gas car vs a hybrid SUV... I love small cars and always have a soft spot for them but having a growing family as most people do when they get older, and you include your spouses family with your own, family road trips, running errands, picking up groceries or supplies from the home improvement store, packing baby strollers, diaper bags, and when you include yourself, a 6 ft adult and everyone else in your family and your spouses family who are 6ft plus...cramming full size adults into a yaris size car is painful. It's doable but its not fun. I use to be so anti SUV for the longest time until I test drove a RAV4 hybrid (which I now own), I couldn't go back to a smaller car. Again, my Corolla was barely getting over 30 mpg where my RAV4 gets over 40+ mpg. Unfortunately, the modern SUV is the new station wagon of today. Where our parents and grandparents drove station wagons, now the modern station wagon is the SUV. Same body type but lifted a few inches up for ground clearance. Why sacrifice you and your families comfort to be in a small car vs a RAV4 type hybrid and have room to actually breathe. As a single bachelor or even a retiree; a small car makes total sense. Living in the Northeast of America, having any car with good ground clearance and having AWD is a must. So many people got stranded during the last blizzard but most essential workers made it to work with their AWD SUVs and trucks. Most front wheel drive cars can drive ok in the snow, but in 18 inches, its near impossible. That's another thing too. Hybrid and EVs don't operate as well in the cold. So many EV owners this past winter in the states were stranded on highways during one of the biggest blizzards in recent memory and the EV owners ran out of electricity while being stuck. Least with a hybrid, you can set them on an auto temp setting and the engine only kicks on when needed to recharge the battery before shutting off again. So many people actually convert their hybrids into mini living campers because of this feature alone. In New England, The Northwest, the south and most of Texas, when Hurricanes, Tornados, Floods, Blizzards roll through; people are without power for days to weeks. Most grocery stores and gas stations run on generators; if your EV ran out of range, besides walking, how can someone make it to the grocery store or find a place to recharge. Even if your home runs on generator; unless you have a good amount of fuel stored to keep it going til the power is restored; how can you make to the gas station to get fuel for your generator if your EV doesn't have enough charge to get there? The infrastructure currently isn't equipped to handle the entire population to be driving EV at this point. The US power grid needs a massive overhaul. Just look at California with their rolling black outs every summer when the most energy is consumed. I'm not anti EV and I would love to own a long range awd ev one day. But we are not where we need to be yet to fully transition every person to drive an EV. So far now, hybrids and plug ins is the way to go until such a change can happen. A valid point that's made is that while it might make more sense to buy a short range EV is your commutes are short. But for the majority of Americans; a short range EV is not logical unless its strictly a work vehicle while having a 2nd car/gas car as a back up for long trips. Why spend extra money on buying two cars for the same purpose when you can have a hybrid/plug in hybrid or if you can afford it, a long range EV. But until prices go down where the average person can afford a long range affordable EV then hybrids and plug ins are here to stay.
I think it depends on the range you need. If you have a lot of long drives, hybrids make sense. I drive for 1500km sometimes across Europe and using an electric car would be a pain
It was rude to continuously only refer to the huge hulking SUV PHEV or the ridiculous i8, as if those are the only PHEV models. Comparing a 50 MPG ICE to a Defender PHEV? Really? I don't think the same person is shopping those two cars. The gas doesn't go stale in a PHEV, because they've thought about that, and run the gas engine on schedule. You don't really consider yourself a better engineer than the people that build the cars, do you? I do agree in part with the Toyota electrification policy. 100 cars with 1 kWh batteries, instead of 1 car with 100 kWh, and 99 cars with no battery. You admitted that you ignored CO2 emissions. Toyota says the goal is not eliminating fossil fuels, it is eliminating CO2. I have a LEAF. I love the BEV. But then I want to drive the occasional long distance. We are not ready to do that yet in a BEV. With my PHEV, I can drive my average of 25 miles per day without any gasoline, but when I want to go 400 miles, I can do it non-stop, at high speed. I don't need to budget in a lunch stop that I didn't want, just to charge for an hour or more.
8:45 PHEV are slow to charge because they are only meant to be charged overnight, at home. And also because they are already so heavier than petrol, hybrid and electric cars that adding a high power charger would add even more weight!
Towing and carrying is still an issue on cheap, small BEVs. Have kept my diesel estate (VW passat (50-60 mpg, 245000 miles and 19 years old) for camping holidays for canoe, bikes, tent etc. My BMW i3 just can't do it and I don't need an enormous BEV for most of the year.
There is still a place for hybrids here in NZ. EVs are still difficult to get hold of here with 6 to 12 month waiting lists. EVs are still too expensive and there is also limited choice here. No VW IDs, no Skoda's and no MG5. The MG ZS EV is at least 6 months away. When it comes to used cars, if you only have 1 car in your family, then a hybrid is an affordable option. Friends recently bought a used Prius station wagon hybrid, because of lack of affordable EV choice in the second hand market, and no EV station wagon options. We've got a Hyundai Ioniq EV and love it, but our other car is an Outlander for big camping trips, towing and white water kayaking, and because we have 2 vehicles, one of them is able to be an EV
Big problem for BEV cars here in the stretched out United States (unless you own a Tesla) is the lack of charging infrastructure in many areas. We are slowly working on this but years down the road until we have similar fast charging capabilities to GB, Europe, and China. For many people that drive locally and use their car / truck for longer trips the plug in hybrids are more realistic. For around town a small electric is great, but usually with a small range (my city car and one of the best for pure urban / suburban commuting is a 2016 Smart ED with a bike rack). Unfortunately America still largely disdains small vehicles. Long way to go here in the colonies!
The EU regulations are changing to roughly double the CO2 of PHEVs, to better represent the fact that (based on real-world data they've gathered) people generally don't charge their PHEVs
To be frank "self-charging hybrid" does make sense in countries like Poland where there are little to no plugs, and you don't have a place to charge yourself, and if you are planning to run mostly in the cities, AND as long as it's cheap to operate like Toyota Hybrid. So very specific niche, you burn like 4/5l of fuel instead of 7/8l. Also, how could you give no recognition for overengineered Chevy Bolt // Oper/Vauxhall Ampera that was amazing, but just a bit expensive, this plugin hybrid can also work in a specific environment, for instance, if you can only charge at home lvl1 charger and drive to work around 20 kilometers, yes you drag engine, etc. but when you go to vacation you have no range anxiety and you pollute similarly to a gasoline car (around 7l/100km). (except for all the time you go to work where you almost do not pollute at all. So it's not like there is no market for them, again it's just a very specific niche.
HEV: 800km+ of range in 5 min., anywhere in the world, using any payment card, and even cash(!) BEV: IF you can find a working super duper charger, around 300km in 20 min., but for the majority of chargers 1 hour+ -If you don't want to be ripped off in pay-as-you-go you have to be subscribed to at least one of the many networks -Can't just plug your car and start pumping Kw, needs setting up (more time) -The charger network reliability means you'll be thinking of stopping at 1/3 capacity instead of the reserve line, just in case a few are broken, so your usable range is way less than what the car can actually do (more time) Charging BEVs is an adventure compared to ICEs, and takes a whole lot of time and effort if you can't do it all at home. Total losers when it comes to ease of use. Also won't save you much money when using public chargers, and the cars are much more expensive. Honourable mention to the unknown reliability after 8/10 years, which everyone conveniently ignores. BEVs? Not yet
All very cogent and reasonable claims, ignoring one massive, overriding and critically important factor. Men, and this does seem to be gender specific, totally and utterly ignore the fuel used in combustion engines. They ignore it as if had never been mentioned and just simply wasn't an issue. They don't deny it's an issue, or try to paper over the horrific reality that results from burning billions of barrels of toxic fuel every day. They just ignore it and stater a grab onto bag of selfish, narrow, blinkered 'facts' about charge times (of vehicles they have no experience of) and demand the basic human right to continue to burn fossil fuel in hopelessly inefficient old technology. So I truly don't care how fast you can fill a tank with imported, expensive, toxic fuel. It's very very boring and utterly irrelevant.
@@fullychargedshow , living in your ivory tower, where men don't care about pollution, everybody can afford to buy a brand new car, and has access to individual overnight charging , where batteries and motors are available for all cars being made worldwide. You're deluded, and sexist, to the point of it being a mental health problem. If you really want to help the world, go lobby the government and the industry to build more fast chargers, and improve battery technology, because you're pretty clueless as a car commenter
unfortunately, most people don't have a spare 10 grand to 'just get an electric one'. the premium on ev's is still far too high to buy an ev over a hybrid, for most people..and thats not even including issues with lack of infrastructure and places to charge at home..(if you live in old 2up 2 down terrace housing, there is just no way you can charge from home). One day soon, hopefully, but not at the moment.
Going to fuel up is your nightmare ! 5 minutes and pay at the pump ,such inconvenience! Wait until your electric car burns your house down or just runs out of juice at a very inconvenient place.
I like the way BMW did it with the i3 REx. That car will allow me use battery power to meet 99% of my needs, while giving me the option to drive using the onboard generator if I don’t want the hassle or can’t waste time charging the battery normally.
Great video as always, I took the daunting leap and cancelled my VW Golf GTE order last week as the time had come to replace my "self charging" Toyota Corolla, Placed my order today for a Cupra Born which after watching plenty of reviews should be no problem with my current driving range and use.
While I agree today in 2022 BEV is the way to go, when I bought my Chevy Volt in 2017 there were fewer chargers in Canada (hell there still aren't many). The Volt does 95km on battery, 500km on gas which is about as far as most ICE sedans I owned. It would run the engine at least once every 6 weeks (forces you). Of all the parts that failed on it since I bought it all of them were related to the EV power train all serviced under warranty. I loved that car it was a great runner. I ended up selling it for a downpayment on a Model 3LR which I have yet to receive... Anyways, not all PHEVs were crap. The Volt was nice and it's a shame they cancelled the program so soon. There is clearly a gap to fill still.
You are being simplistic when you say a BEV is 85% efficient. Efficiency of BEV versus PHEV's or ICE's must compare end to end from the power plant to the wheels. Almost all of the electricity comes from coal and natural gas plants that have efficiencies of about 40% when you include the transmission losses. If you multiply 40% * 85% for the BEV you get about 34% efficiency. A Prius engine is well over than 40% efficient. The other thing you need to keep in mind is road taxes and the the infrastructure cost to have a significant number of BEV's, at least in the USA. Road taxes for electricity for BEV' is going to have to be $.25 per mile to replace the petrol taxes. To upgrade our grid to use significantly more BEV's is going to cost 100's of billions perhaps trillions. That will have to go to increased cost per kilowatt hour. When we try to increase the number of BEV's the cost of lithium, cobalt and nickel are going to skyrocket(supply and demand). This will easily double the cost of BEV's, and people won't be able to afford them. For the foreseeable future, I think a hybrid with a highly efficient optimized ICE engine of about 20HP and a generator with batteries or a Supercap/Ultracap is the optimum solution. The vehicle should have only enough batteries to go about 20 miles and should run on gas, natural gas or diesel. The batteries really only supply acceleration. This will keep the vehicle weight down, and the highest overall efficiency. Eventually when we are forced to go to nuclear power and the batteries are improved i.e. smaller with less weight than existing batteries, the BEV will be the best solution. The argument that solar and wind will provide the low cost electricity is nonsense. The needed infrastructure and sheer amount of raw materials that would have to come from China and Russia to build the solar panels, windmills, and the needed battery backup will be a disaster for the free world economies. With a small optimized engine the catalytic converter can be small and electrically heated. Another thing that seems to be forgotten is heating the vehicle in cold weather, the waste heat from the engine isn't wasted in cold weather. This is a real problem for BEV's.
Really interesting episode, thanks! I really want to buy a fully electric car but my issue is how/where to charge.. I live in a large block of flats on south coast… on street parking can’t charge at home, and not many public charging points locally… I am just waiting for more charging opportunities- meanwhile Honda hrv self charging on the cards… 🧐
Worth trying to badger the company who manage the flats, and anyone else you can think of - employer, council, supermarket, etc. Point out that they are going to have to put in chargers eventually, so why not this year. If going hybrid, consider that many supermarkets have chargers, google Zap-Map for local area and charging prices.
I think whether or not Hybrids are practical, is heavily dependent on where you live, and the abundance of electric vehicle support infrastructure. I live in Vancouver, and sadly there are a TINY number of charging stations in the entire metropolitan area, including suburbs. Those places that do have charging stations, are so few, and when they do exist, they have very few spots to park. Much of the urban areas are also reliant on apartments, not houses or townhouses, so you're talking about buildings that have very few if any charging stations for their residents. I know a couple that bought a tesla, wonderful electric vehicle...problem is that they live in an apartment and there is only 2 parking spots with charging slots and trying to get one of them to use is almost like trying to win the lottery. In my city, 100% electric vehicles simply are not practical. Hybrids on the other hand are much more practical as their range is considerably larger and with new self-charging systems like using their gas engines to charge their batteries while driving, extends their range a great deal. I have a Prius Prime, and I've saved massive amounts of money on gas because I am able to plug and charge it at home and use the battery as effectively as I can. But I think it certainly has to do with support infrastructure. If you don't have charging stations, electric vehicle simply aren't practical.
One of the best things we can all do is drive smaller more efficient vehicles! These great big 4x4s are usually just status symbols that never get used as off road vehicles! Smaller means more fun to drive, easier to park, more efficient, cheaper to fuel, cheaper to service & less resources required to manufacture. Also, buy used. These cars already exist so CO2 already used to manufacture, shame to waste this. Buy a used Toyota, get it serviced with Toyota & get a up to 10 years or 100000 mile warranty!
We kept our BMW i3-REx because of 72 mi EV and only a generator, no transmission. The 2017 Prius Prime had too short, 25 mi EV, and worse, no EV only mode below 55 F.
CORRECTION TO THE TITLE “ An IDOITS GUIDE to going full electric … HYBRID IS THE FUTURE I know because I drive a BMW Rex hybrid and full electric is MADNESS , range anxiety and now long queue’s for charging stations especially on motorway monopolies
I just bought a full hybrid because I can't charge at home or at work and probably won't be able to do that for at least a few years. Would have preferred full electric but since I can't charge that wasn't an option unfortunately. I will certainly switch to full electric in a few years though.
The problem is BEV technology is still not the greatest. The vehicle weight is going up massively, ranges are still not the greatest and most importantly the charging speeds are awful. Finally Hyundai, Kia and Porsche are introducing 800V charging which is starting to make people oh and hum thinking ok I can deal with 20-30 min charging times. But honestly, in the cold, after losing some range, waiting 40mins in the middle of a what should be a 3 hr drive isn't making me think wow, I want to spend 20-25k more on a car to get an BEV. That's the reality of it here in Canada.
I think Hybrids would of been much better if they were established 10-20 years ago rather than now, the concept of regenerating power on braking / downhill for later use in town and petrol for faster speeds is sound and they are in my mind still a good stop gap for full electric. I am however unsure whether to go for full electric yet or just keep my full petrol car a bit longer (i can't charge at home)
I live on a small island, so unless I'm travelling somewhere on the mainland, 90 per fent of my trips are less than 10 miles. So for that I use a petrol vw up, which is good on fuel and cost 6 k to buy with only low miles on it. My point is that I'd be perfect for a plug in but the electric version of my car is 20k, even used examples, which, being retired, I can't afford. I can't be the only one in this boat?
For now, hybrids by far the best option with efficiency and no range anxiety or charging problems. Over Christmas long queues of Teslas and other evs waiting to spend over 30 or 40 minutes to charge up with insufficient or out of use charging points....what a pantomime.....3 hour journeys turning into 5 or 6 hour nightmares for some. Long term, ev or hydrogen may be the answer but for now the trusty hybrid suits most drivers.....at an acceptable price.
I'm still ranting about the way TfL, the London government, have classified the BMW i3 REx as a hybrid and tax them every day. They are not a hybrid, they are a BEV inside the M25 quite clearly, the little scooter derived petrol engine never drives the wheels so it's not a hybrid.
So, there's no version for me? A Combustion engine like the Mild-Hybrid, but can drive a decent distance on Electric and can be charged Basically a car that can drive to the store on Electric, drive long distance on Fuel, have asisted power/fuel eficiency from the eletric motor and if the combustion engine failed for any reason i could drive eletric to the nearest mechanic.
This is exactly what a PHEV does. Mild hybrid only improves the engine's performance and MPG, it's a small electric motor which helps the normal engine be more efficient. Mild-hybrids can't run on electric motors only, the ICE stays on all the time
It's always nice to hear you, even if I don't care about hybrids. In your next rant, could you please please talk about the outrageous prices of charging in Portugal? 🙏
The Amperage was an interesting concept - though it did need a bit more battery. The other was the Chevy bolt - a fully serial hybrid with multiple clutches for interesting options…
Maybe in England those ideas work but across the pond in the colonies, we go on trips that are much longer than the entire UK... such as New York to Los Angeles or Seattle Washington to Miami Florida. EVs are... at this time... impractical for us Americans. We travel for 12 or more hours straight... we can't drive for 5 hours and then wait 12 hours to fully charge our EVs...IF you can find a recharge station. The infrastructure is horrible at the moment. Hybrids, on the other hand, are practical because we get about 40-59 MPG and we can stop and fill up our tanks with petrol in about 3 minutes. When EVs can shorten their recharge time and increase their range to over 500 miles... then you have a valid point. Until that time, your argument does not hold water.
Probably you need to research your position much more? Maybe 1% of Americans drive long distance. Nobody wants to spend 4 of their 7 vacation days driving- we fly. Or at least rent a car and put the wear and miles on that instead of your car. But your pretend cross country trip would only add a few hours to the overall time. Education is the key. But I agree that in the US for another few years that most people need a hybrid or PHEV since most people can't charge at home or work.
@@davidmccarthy6061 we are in a unique position... and we love taking long trips... more often than you think. The destination of the vacation is not what we cherish... it's the trip and the way we get there... the journey. And haven't you heard? Americans have a love affair with their cars... more than any other culture on the planet. Give me an EV that can go 500+ miles and that can recharge in less than half an hour... and I'll buy it on the spot. I'll replace all my vehicles.
Batteries can not be relied on in bitter cold. Nor can anyone sit in an electric car for 20 minutes while it gets a charge in freezing temps. Don't take this wrong. I'm all for electrics. The self charging might solve at least one of those issues.
In India its a different story , I have a old EV with 80mile range and still run a petrol car for long distance. In India long range electric cars are expensive due to high import duties on components and batteries.
I would LOVE an EV, believe me, but: - I do a 1600km roatrip 3-4 times a year, and I like to do that without a sleepover, can do that in my BEV in 15hrs, and be done from morning till evening - I don't have a way of charging the car, because I rent, and just no option, and charging on public paid chargers does not calculate Agree though that PHEVs suck - really worst of both worlds, I promise guys, my next car will be an EV though, in 5+ years... I'm asking for 600km+ range and
Unless your power grid is Nuclear powered, ie 24hr base load reliable, with charging stations every 50 km apart and you don't travel over 200 km a day then a EV might be for you. A PHEV is a viable compromise that helps reduce emissions in cities and high density areas while still maintaining autonomy away from the support network. I will keep my 1986 Diesel Land Rover whose life cycle embedded energy and related emissions would now be zero, it has already outlived 5 life cycles of a full EV vehicle with all the emissions and waste produced. in the process and shows no sign of failing yet.
I have the prius v that has a gas engine and electric motor butt I think my next car will be a small electric only car just because of what you guys have explained in this video.
A PHEV is exactly the same as a full EV in most cases... except cheaper, more convenient, and less resource intensive to manufacture. If you are not exceeding the range on electric for the majority of trips, there is no point in hauling around a couple tons of batteries.
I hope the Aptera does go into production this time. Light ,efficient ,compact and not too expensive BEVs are what is needed for the masses. Aptera has the advantage of solar,may never need charging,at least in the sunnier parts of the world.(like N.Z & Australia)
Yeah it is the perfect car for commuting and is deceptive in size. It looks small but actually has quite a bit of trunk space and safety wise they use a survival cell. I anticipate there will be a lot of copying going on (especially in China). If the production design does not have any major reliability or cosmetic problems after the first round go out and start racking up the km I am all in for one, plus they are all about right to repair and modularity so big win there also.
A rather brilliant concept, was under my top 3 yet-to-come SEVs (beside the Lightyear 1 from the NL and the Sion from Germany). Living just 200 km from Sonomotor's headquarter, preferring a 4-5 seater and looking for an EV wirh a trailer hook, I finally decided (and per-ordered) the Sion. The Lightyear would have beaten both, but for the price I'd get 5 (!) Sions or Apteras. Oh, and finally I'm not sure when the Aptera will pass homologation for my country. (Even they couldn't tell...) But I pretty much will stay tremendously curious about all three of them, for sure! 🤩👍
You can drag around a ICE and fuel/exhaust system in a plug-in hybrid or a lot of battery capacity you aren't using all the time. It appears that the weight might be comparable between the two. If PHEVs had 50 mile electric range you could spread the batteries out across a lot more consumers. Most people don't need 300 miles of electric range. Just like most people don't need 1000 horsepower. But people are trying to knock down the plug-in hybrids in favor of battery only cars that people don't need or can't afford.
A range extender wankel engine/generator etc runs ~150lb, with higher power genset's maybe ~200lb, better than the ~1000lb for a long range battery. Mated to ~100 mile range battery this would cover pretty much all requirements; virtually all trips would be electric only. Long range will kick in the range extender. The engine also can run on hydrogen, to keep the activist greenies happy. I'd expect the car to be plug in as well to maximise flexibility.
Or don't want to pay.. Public transport is also quicker tbh. It'd be great to see all railway lines be electrified, and for the UK to have a long term goal of putting in maglev HS2 pushes the boundaries of the kinds of speed that traditional railways support but there is a limit.. Maglev has a limit too but a much higher limit. It's just a really expensive technology. Hopefully once Maglev becomes cheaper, we might have say 325Mph trains which would really change the UK, given how relatively small it is
@@thecraggrat My driving needs are 95 percent urban and 5 percent total desolation. When I leave the Wasatch Front and hie to my Wyoming retreat, charging stations are practically non existent. My "electric car with a range extender" (Chevy Volt) is ideal.
Car for car what is the price difference between a PHEV with say 50 mls electric range and a BEV with say 200 mls range? I think you'll find the initial purchase price is actually quite small nowadays.
GM offered the first dedicated PHEV, but with the second gen decided it was pointless. Cheaper to ditch the engine system and go full electric. So no more Volts and instead more full EVs.
I really like my Kona Ev, only downside lately are the charging stations, apps don’t work properly or it won’t connect, or cuts out 10 mins into a charge. The network has to get better, old chargers have to be updated and add more boxes to the area. Big ev stations are a great idea, but the network for these has to grow quickly! Great show, love watching 😊
Let's get a new law passed: any charging station which can technically provide power but is offline due to a software/connectivity issue _must_ offer free vend. I expect suddenly engineers will be appearing within hours rather than weeks
I’m happy to hear hybrids aren’t the devil. I’ve just passed my driving test, I can’t afford a new car, or a second hand electric. But I’m looking at getting a second hand Prius. Thanks for this.
Well, they sort of are the devil. It takes the emissions and environmental impacts of building a petrol car + the impacts of building an EV and putting all of that into one vehicle. While marketing will tell you differently, the environmental ROI on a product like this will have to me much longer than a BEV alone. Even if that BEV is electrified by coal. They are purposely green washed to continue business as usual for big auto and the oil companies. That said, buying one second hand keeps it active so, it wasn't a waste to make it in the first place.
@@roguea987 Making a battery for an average BEV pollutes 40x more than the batteries for a self charging Hybrid. (Simple math, there that much bigger) Pollution of making a petrol engine is negligible compared to this. Hybrids do cut down a lot on emissions compared to normal petrol/diesel vehicles. So for the initial pollution of making just one BEV(which replaces only one ICE vehicle), you can produce and cut down road pollution of 40 petrol/diesel vehicles by swapping them for a hybrid. Total environmental gain is larger by the masses switching to hybrids. Not to mention that most people still have a car no2 with ICE when they need to go somewhere on a long trip. We live in a fast paced world where people already barely have enough time to fit everything they need into a day. "Just plan on taking more time travelling" sounds good in theory, but doesn't work in reality. That's why a plug-in hybrid RAV4 is the best of both worlds. You can drive up to 75km in ev mode (almost 90km in reality) and just keep going if you need to go further.
@@sasakurtovic6850 Absolute rubbish. For starters, the RAV4 pack is 18.1 kWh (yes, i actually checked instead of guessing) That'll be about 30-40% the size of the average BEV. So 3 "times the pollution" not "40"....."simple math"...duh? Pollution to make a petrol engine (AND all the extra ancillaries!) is VERY comparable to this. . As for "cutting emissions". A smaller(?) engine, pulling more weight? Is going to be under more stress. It will pollute more...... Unless it's a larger engine, but in that case what's the point? On that subject, the RAV4 Hybrid had a *2 4 litre* engine (needed to pull the weight??😂) .... Should we get into the pollution of simply *producing* the fuel? (NOT even burning it?) That's one of Roberts favourites. (Check his interview with Graeme Cooper of the National Grid) +/- 7 kW per gallon of fuel. Enough to drive a BEV 25-35 miles, depending on the vehicle. That immediately comes off "the bottom line" of cost AND pollution for the EV. ..... As I said, you're guessing. Please don't.
On the money as ever gents. My father in law called me an idiot for buying an eNiro because "you'll be replacing the battery in five years and it'll cost you £20,000". Step away from the Daily Fail......
The HEV really shines in courier work as you mentioned with taxis. I purchased a used Ford Escape hybrid 4 years ago & it's been excellent as a work vehicle. At least a third better fuel mileage and the vehicle idles silently without the ICE constantly on or kicks on occasionally to keep the cabin warm. My work day might be 50 mi or 300. Add in range loss for the need for heat in the winter time and it would be difficult to make an electric only fit my needs.
I owned 3 "self-charging" hybrids in succession. To an old petrol-head, they proved to me that I wanted a full electric car. Now I have a full BEV but it would not have happened if the hybrids hadn't persuaded me how good electric power, albeit for a mile or less, really could be.
I have currently PHEV and most likely will jump to BEV. I bought PHEV 1.5 years ago as BEVs had (and still have) a bit too many limitations from my point of view. But we have Audi Quattro Avant (=my wife's car) which we can use for longer trips, towing etc. so I should be able to tolerate downsides of BEV in my car and use Audi when BEV is not good. Also PHEV also 'educated' me that generally EV is pretty good path forward, while current cars still have a bit too may downsides. Also I think that all new petrol/diesel cars should be hybrids and gradually (probably quite fast) things will shift to EVs. Having hybrids in between will ease up limited supply of batteries and will very fast reduce pollution.
@@mho0 You make some fair points, but we recently had "Hybrid Gate" where it turned out PHEV's pollute far more the manufacturers claimed. And the reason really is simple, but difficult to solve. Combustion engine cars are very dirty and polluting until the CAT has a chance to heat up and burn off the pollution, extra petrol that doesn't get burned, particulates, etc. In a PHEV, the engine kicks in for seconds or barely a minute or two at time. So, it really never gets the CAT up to operating temperature, which means the car engine runs in the cold fully polluting mode pretty much the entire time. As the video makes a point of, most people transition to electric cars through Hybrids. They go combustion, hybrid, plug in hybrid, BEV, or combustion, hybrid, BEV. So, their usefulness appear to be mostly just as a hand holding device to get people to full BEV's. After a year or two with PHEV, most people start wondering why they are hauling around this large engine and transmission they really never use. Add in the far better performance of BEV's and they end of losing the combustion engine.
To be honest, I already own a BEV with over 350km of range on full battery and I LOVE it, but I am considering changing to a PHEV only because of limits on longer trips! Range anxiety, all the calculations of routes and stops and finding a fast charger, and a charger at the destination and and and... yes it is getting much better, but it is still just too much hustle!
That too is a concern for me. Every summer I liked going to the mountains, but it is VERY rural. I've also heard of inadequate recharging sites and congestion almost anywhere. Besides, most electricity is still generated from coal, gas or petroleum anyway. I replaced my Prius with a Rav4, both hybrids but now I have headroom for my mattress in the back ... and a motorized back gate so I can easily enter/exit rather than crawl through. Downside for larger size is less MPG, but still better than ICE only. I view HYBRID as better than ICE of course but the better answer until the world can handle a billion BEVs.
The Coffee Loop: For customers, it's GOOD to have choices. In time, BEV's and batteries will get better and cheaper, and it will become a no-brainer, as you can get something like 500 mile range for a reasonable price AND charging stations will be ubiguitous. In the mean time, during the transition stage, which will last decades, it's great to have choices. Driving a PHEV is MUCH better than driving a pure ICE, re the environment.
@@markamanns5145: First, VERY little electricity is generated from burning oil. Second, more and more electricity is generated from clean sources each year, and from natural gas instead of coal, which is much cleaner than coal. If you want to drive hybrid -- dandy. But don't spread the usual denier falsehoods about the electric system to justify it -- it's bad enough with people that lie for a political agenda. (Not saying you're lying, but you're wrong re the electricity. Don't take my word for it -- the data is all over the internet on reliable sites like the EIA, the IEA, government energy sites, etc.
@@markamanns5145 Just well the "Authorities" have twigged that BEV technology is a dead end. It's the charging time anxiety, range anxiety and "the finding of a charger" anxiety. There's no way UK can provide enough electrical energy to keep up with recharging vehicles what with the legislation requiring the reduction of fossil fuels for heating and cooking. You'll have noticed the increased references to Hydrogen fuel ... and the waning enthusiasm from Boris on "his" massive battery construction projects. Plus the growing confidence in HVO fuels. Vegetable based fuel with nary a fossil to be seen. If, as is becoming clearer (!) by the day, HVO burns more cleanly then the wording of getting rid of "fossil fuels" allows for the use of "compression ignition" engines anyway. HGVs have been running on HVO for over two years and there appears to no pollution issues as yet.
I'm really disappointed you didn't mention towing a heavy caravan or horsebox with a PHEV. I don't think n that fully electric cars are able to provide a good enough towing range yet. I drive 10-20 miles a day on average, then 1 a month a so I tow a 1500kg caravan, would love to hear some advice on what would be a good vehicle for this scenario. Currently I have a 2L diesel for the caravan and long trips and a Smart EQ for daily trips, but would be great to back to one vehicle
I would dearly love to own a full EV but, for my average usage, they are not cost effective. When I returned to live in the UK in 2016, I bought a pre-owned 62 plate Yaris Hybrid which I adore. I don't have to pay Road Tax, my insurance is very reasonable and I get about 62 MPG. Because most of my journeys are local with an occasional long distance drive to 'the big smoke' to see my family, I've only reached about 36k on the odometer. It is economical, quiet and a delight to drive. (And yes, Robert, I only fill up once every 6-9 months and I've never had any problems with 'stale' petrol!) I've looked at the economics of owning a secondhand EV but the figures don't stand up. At present, a pre-owned Zoe or E-up (the equivalent to a Yaris Hybrid) is just so damned expensive and, although a Nissan Leaf or Vauxhall might be relatively less expense, I don't need anything that big. So I've decided to hang on to the Yaris Hybrid and run it into the ground, although its reliability might mean this will take decades. I suppose the only 'crunch factor' will be if HMG decide that my hybrid should incur Road Tax!
As someone looking for a small/medium-sized used car, I have literally never even see any hybrids whatsoever within 100 miles of me and within my (relatively limited, but still not absolutely tiny) budget. So I'll have to make do with an ICE until the used and/or the new electric ones get cheap enough for me to afford. Which is a shame, because I'd love to be a bit greener
@@cbcdesign001 it's a blend. They have a generalized script with main points etc. They are using viewers questions so they have worked out their answers, but sure, the conversation is unscripted. If that makes sense. I've worked in TV. Some of the presenters are insanely professional. They can even time their comment to fit a countdown that is happening in their earpiece, to the nearest second or two. Live!
I drove a Chevy Volt PHEV for 4 years and it was great. I got between 50 and 60 miles range on pure electric. My EV use of it alone was over 75% and I only had 2 oil changes since the ICE motor was only used when I was on a longer trip. It was the gateway drug though hence I now drive a Tesla. Very happy with it so far (one year)
I intend my next vehicle to be a second gen Volt. Volts are little different and are essentially an electric vehicle with a motor backup. I drive enough miles where the motor will get used frequently and it won't be too underused like many.
I used to own a Golf GTE. Lovely car, but no matter how little you used the engine, VW still made me come in every year for an oil change. That basically ruins most PHEVs economically speaking...
agreed completely, i have had 2 - 2nd gen volts 2016-2018 and 2018 to present, LOVE it. I have added gas 2 times per year, it is nice to have the back-up as needed for long drives
OK, but that Tesla with its huge battery is stopping ten others getting a Volt! Battery capacity is growing but it's still limited. Why just have it all sitting in your car unused most of the time when nine others could be using it all?
@@PILLOCK4 Well my Tesla isn't one with the really large batterys...I've got a Model Y SR which only has a 58kw battery compared to my gen 2 Volt which had an 18kw battery so it's not 10 others as the battery is only about 3 times the size
Glad to see some love for the i3 REx, ours is fantastic. Our battery does 55-60 miles at this time of year, but even so, we haven't used the petrol engine for months, but crucially it's there for long journeys where it's impractical to recharge 4 or 5 times. We simply fill up the tank and the battery, fill up a 10 litre jerrycan, do 140 miles, then recharge the battery and refill the tank at the same time. Easy peasy!
Great car , Im looking at a late rex or an ID3 as I regularly drive 600 miles with a ferry crossing in the middle and I don't want to miss the ferry because a charger is broken. Rex is a great solution.
PHEV (if it has ~50 miles of range) is still extremely important during this transition period, at least in America, for years yet for the 10's of millions of people that can't charge at home or work. Apartments/condos, street only parking, etc. If their gasoline usage drops 80% that is still a win for the short term. Once there is level 2 (240v) charging just about everywhere we park running errands we can always be topped off and then full electric is possible for everyone. But that's a long way out in the US. My kids can't get BEV because their 20's will be all apartment living with nowhere to charge.
@@NickFoster plugging in phev at a destination, like a mall or restaurant lot means toy can top off or charge a small battery without DCFC, and come back to a charged car to get home, granted you can do that with a BEV, but you won't be able to fill a battery without a driveway. also when going long distances, in our area and use, that is common, our ID4 worked but i was hunting to be able to max range. some trips required a long break and overnight driving makes that much harder
@@saeedhossain6099 Its beacause only Tesla at the moment has the required and reliable fast charging infrastructure. With their long range version cars long trips are barely longer than with gasoline cars and more often than not the driver is the limiting factor. The other infrastructures really need to catch up in terms of charging speed and reliabilty. Luckily Tesla is slowly opening its advanced and reliable chargers to other brands, but the cars also need to get a bit better on sustained charging speeds.
@@geiers6013 In most of the US even Tesla doesn't have the necessary infrastructure yet. You often have to base your itinerary around the charging stations. Granted, in reality this is only like 5% of your driving, but that can be a deal breaker.
With all respect, I am driving a 2013 Plug-in Prius, bought 2nd hand, coming from a Diesel Estate. I can charge at home, and every first 20 km’s is fully electric, which is most city kilometers. We currently drive around 20-25% full electric, and weekly I need to drive at least 200 km on the motorway. I have a very good fuel economy, maintenance cost is low, and it will bridge me to when affordable 2nd hand EV’s become available.
This. They've forgotten the most sensible option for people who still cannot afford a BEV. Not gas or HEV or PHEV but any kind of 2nd hand good hybrid you can find. Don't eat the full depreciation of a new car which is going to be obsolete in 5 years.
Absolutely agree! I just bought a 2013 plugin Prius myself last week, and so far I love it. Fuel consumption so far has been phenomenally low, and if it's as reliable as my previous gen2 regular hybrid, maintenance should be good too.
Totally, I think a PHEV makes way more sense, and I think for most people it would end up being better for the environment too, since it doesn’t have the crazy embodied emissions of an BEV
@@charliebrackenbury6115 That embodied emission isn't crazy. Especially if the battery is made outside of China. Also, as the grid is getting greener, the CO2 cost of manufacturing will keep dropping.
@@andrasbiro3007 yeah, I know it’s getting better, still though, even just the mining of the rare earth metals necessary to make the cells has a huge impact compared to the metal needed to make an ICE, the nice part of a PHEV is that you can have batteries for your day to day range and then on occasion use the ICE for long distances, that way you aren’t lugging around hundreds of pounds of energy intensive batteries for the couple of times you exceed the range
Totally missed the point that people who do a few very long journeys but most of the time commute less than 30m a day with the current terrible charging network in the UK would find a PHEV really good.
I'm not sure you can call the UK charging network really terrible for a few long journeys, most Motorway service stations now have excellent Gridserve chargers. It all depends on where those long journeys take them.
@@ianmurray250 no most of the changes don't work. We have to keep reseting them. And they keep going off line. We have a long way to go yet. Also ,most electric cars have 100miles less than they claim when you treat them like normal cars by driving them in winter and turning electric things on in the car.
@@chrishart8548 Not what I have found with chargers recently and my Kona has a 240 minimum range, vice 287 (or 278 I can't remember) if I am really heavy with the throttle and don't give a dam. Over 300 with sunny weather and air con.
@@ianmurray250 i have used the chargers on long trips regularly and they are hopeless and getting worse, as electric car numbers increase at a greater rate than the chargers. You can't rely on them, full stop !
If your long journeys aren't regular, then you're fine with a BEV too. It's a bit of a paradox. If you're going on a lot of long journeys, the benefit of a hybrid isn't great. If you're doing it rarely, then the benefits don't really matter.
With this episode I was glad to see your channel at least try to deal with an inconvenient truth. That for the average non-wealthy driver that needs a car for commuting a PHEV makes much more sense than full BEV. The reason is simple: they are much cheaper. I own a VOLT that I use to commute 30 miles per day with. I drive fully electric about 95% of the time. It cost me half of what a Tesla would and was what I could afford. This is a litmus test really. If your channel is truly interested in decarbonizing auto transportation you would embrace this inconvenient truth and stop pretending that you miss the point. Until we get the $25K BEV (something only the chinese seem to be interested in) we will get nowhere in popularizing greener transportation.
Same here, I rented a Tesla Model 3 for 36 hours and then bought a 2019 Chevy Volt...an awesome machine for commuting and hauling crap. Hatchbacks are my favorite type of car, and with the seats down it has a tremendous amount of cargo space. I have been driving a Toyota Corolla the past 3 weeks while on assignment for work and I am HUGELY disappointed in it's driveability, performance, and environmental systems. The 2021 Corolla takes FOREVER to get heat, and then it's still never very warm. The front defroster is absolute crap, it can't keep up with freezing rain. I cannot wait to get back into my Volt. I drive 60% on electric over it's lifetime. I feel like I have the best of both worlds. Electricity costs are going to continue to climb so there will not be a cost savings driving electric.
I've found that the idea of buying an EV is great if you have the money to do so. A lot of people could really use something that is economical to run and is low maintenance, but the high up front cost leave them having to purchase a used ICE car as that is all they can afford.
I disagree with the PHEV hate. PHEV are extremely important, gateway drug to full electric. Many people like myself can't charge at home but can in a limited number of places. I'd happily start with a PHEV.
The average man in the street doesn’t find it easy to go full EV ! Surely the likes of a Toyota hybrid Cross over ‘ Isn’t too bad to start off with 🤷🏼♂️ 🇬🇧
I have a PHEW and love it. Most weekly running around is all electric. But, I drive a trip of about 500 miles through the desert every couple of months. MOST EVs don't have that range and I don't want to start looking for a charging station in the middle of nowhere!
The negatively towards hybrids in this video show ignorance to the fact that it everyone lives in the type of residence as the the hosts of this podcast. The infrastructure to EVs is not there yet. When charging becomes available as plentiful as gas stations, then it may be time to switch. BEVs are certainly for tomorrow, but Hybrids and PHEVs are for today.
@@davidc8937 or indeed can afford an EV that would work for the sort of use we need. The second hand Outlander PHEV we have will do 20 miles of EV (home charged), do the 50 mile commute and tow the caravan. We'd currently have to pay a huge amount for an EV that would tow our caravan! No way we could dream of affording a £50k EV even on a lease
I so relate to this. I’ve always been interested in cars. And so it was natural that I read and researched the technologies over the years. This year my wife and I were in the market for a new car (after not having one for 3 years after moving to Denmark). And we bounced back and forth between PHEV and EV. And I spent nights evaluating, until one day, we just decided, let’s take the plunge. “Let’s buy an EV”, we said. For all it’s pros and all it’s cons. It’s THE way forward. And now we’re waiting delivery of our new Polestar 2. Shout out to Bobby L because his review of that car, and calling it close to the best he’s driven was one of the things that pushed me to take the plunge! Well done!
While I appreciate your take on the drawbacks of PHEVs I couldn't disagree more. Since I only have one car, I need a car ready to go when I need it, whether it's charged or not. I drive a Volvo XC60 Recharge with a 40 mile range. 95% of my driving is EV when I'm home. BUT I regularly go on 1000 mile roadtrips. 8 hrs on the road in a day is enough without waiting for the battery to recharge. When I stay with friends, they never have an outlet close enough to plug in. When I head to the mountains in the summer, there isn't a public charging station within 40 miles and I park in a public lot so can't plug in. I'd love to drive an EV but they just won't work for me yet. Hopefully, sometime in the near future, EVs will have longer ranges and there will be public chargers in more remote areas. Oh, and my fuel won't get stale. If I go too far without using any gas, the combustion engine will kick on for a minute or two every now and then.
Well, I also do long trips - every week once or twice. I have a MG4 which has good range and charges to 80% in 20 mins (if you pick a high rate charge point). I also destination charge when I arrive. So, I charge while stopping for a coffee and a pee, and while doing work, then drive back starting with a full charge. I think this comment is understandable but doesn't recognise the improvements in EV range and the massively improved charger network
Oh and the point made in the video about maintenance costs shouldn't be underestimated. I've spent virtually nothing in 4 years and 70k EV travel (we now have 2 - I kept the first one). The tyres didn't wear out faster than my previous diesel SUV - I changed them at 45,000 miles just because the rainy season was coming. They were still legal
@@tonychallinor6721 The fast-charging network has certainly improved in the past few years, but it's still very incomplete. In many areas around the world road tripping can't be done in an EV at all, unless it's a top-of-the-line car. PHEVs allow people to plug-in at a much more affordable price point without sacrificing road-trip-ability.
@@tonychallinor6721 I mean clearly you don't go to the same places this person does. I more or less share their experience. There's rarely electrical outlets at e.g. mountains, beaches, really anywhere you actually want to be on a road trip, and in general destination charging just doesn't work for many destinations.
I contacted Toyota and they told me that their hybrid drives on the battery 80% of the time. These dirgusting liars really claimed they invented the perpetuum mobile.
80% of the TIME means if u are sitting in City at a red line it counds as electric time !.. so in city they numbers are correct because u stop very often and in slow traffic it goes EV... They mean 80% of time not 80% of distance :D
I drive a 2 litre Corolla hybrid estate. The brochure claims it drives on electric 50% of the time. From my experience over the last year I'd say that's about right. Between 55 to 63 mpg without trying hard. Astonishingly roomy inside, better than the average SUV. Top drawer reliability. Next step, a Toyota BEV I guess
My Toyota Auris Hybrid is standing still for 98% of the time. Can't beat that for fuel efficiency! But seriously: It really never drives fully electric in normal traffic. Only in slow moving traffic, it might do a few kilometers full electric. As soon as you touch the throttle, the petrol engine kicks in. But the electric engine is always supporting in the background, so in the end it is 1,5 to 2 times more fuel efficient than a comparable ICE-only car.
@@Gooikes in the city ! and not on the Highway or urban roads... And as soon as you want to drive a bit sporty the gas consumption is like a ICE car because even for starts in the city the electric motor can only start slow and not fast
For me as a petrolhead the BMW 330e was the perfect exit drug. I got 330i performance, absence of range anxiety, a very sophisticated integration of the electric motor into the drivetrain and I managed to achieve 80 mpg and 4.5 mi/kWh on average driving roughly 2/3 in electric mode. But as you said, that PHEV was my first and my last of its kind and now I´m driving an i3s BEV.
I also bought the 330e but a year ago when not many BEVs took my fancy. Charging infrastructure was not brilliant for my trips to see family 450 miles away. My trips are mainly 37 mile round trips three times a week and for the 17 months it has done 11,200 miles and at least 9500 were on battery. My mind is now made up and the BMW i4 40 Sport is on order due June’ish. There is strong demand for the 330e so great trade price. A good experience and EV education.
@@douglaswares8296 Mine was an F30, so only 12 to 18 mile pure electric range from 5.7 kWh gross battery size. Yet with charging every night I was able to cover most of my daily driving on electric power alone. I4 40 sounds great, but the new 4-series is a bit too big for my taste and my needs.
@@klausm5460 I posted my own comment 30 minutes after you... my thoughts are the same as yours, except that I could live with the i4 40, but can't afford it! :o(
The most outstanding feature of the Prius, and the least understood, is it's transmission. There are no belts, no clutches and it still offers 100% variable ratio.
There is also NO physical changing of gears in any way. It is as mechanically unchanging and bulletproof a system as a differential. The variable effective gear ration the ICE sees is entirely created by changing the speed of the electric motors, which are varied to create the illusion of having changed gears. In reality, the gears are in a fixed relationship in a planetary gear system, with the output of course being the wheel speed, and the two inputs being electric motor speed and the two inputs being electric motor speed and ICE speed.
From the US, I kinda laughed at the both interest and researched opinions that balk at the idea of a vehicle that takes advantage of the current fuel systems AND the current battery tech systems. Hybrids is what we need right now. Can you imagine where everyone used 50%-60% less gas and way less pollution, in an affordable package (compared to long range EV)? Plug ins have the best of both worlds, and the worst. They are between ICE and EV in every category. They are indeed not a transitional tech, but a blended class of itself. Hybrid systems have been used on trains and passenger buses successfully. The thing is, the dream infrastructure for EV's is still decades into transitioning everyone, and never happen due to how our transport systems work anyway. The idea that hybrids are "old tech" is funny, because ev's have been around as long as ICE. Hybrids are the newest form of powertrain. And no, plug-ins dont really have range issues. The Chevy Volt, for example, has 40-70 miles, depending on the model, full electric which is more than enough for daily driving, and over 400 mile range, which you cannot get in a lot of ICE cars, and you have to sell a kidney to get in EV's, and it cost way less than anything but the budget short range EV's that are pure commuter vehicles. Imagine driving an EV, which is far more pollutive to produce than an ICE car, and think pretentiously that its superior to other technology. EV's are awesome, but their only an option, not a solution.
Guys, I disagree: there is no problem with a PHEV. In fact for some, especially those who need only one car for city and long range drives (occasionally), the PHEV is the best of both worlds. Here in Ireland, especially in the West, the charging infrastructure is crap. I’m not going to have to run two cars or worse one that cannot meet my requirements
2018 Hyundai Ioniq PHEV to minimize gas usage on local errands, 60-63 mpg on long trips, deviations, no place to plug has been a perfect vehicle for our purposes.
I have no fossils since 2019. I drive 40.000-50.000km a year. I got no range anxiety. Electricity is everywhere. Gas stations are dying out around here.
@@JackScarlett1 Our gas stations are around 20-50 kilometers apart and close at 8 in the evening. And what then? When you are stranded in the middle of nowhere?
For me Hybrid was a great option moving from petrol just to test out the waters, to see if i enjoy it. And i dont have to dive straight in to thinking and stressing about charging and all that right away. So it was a great steeping stone. I went from BMW E92 to a Audi A3 e-tron (hybrid). And now im driving a Tesla Model 3 :) So i would actually recommend if you are not sure about EVs to get yourself a Hybrid first and see if you like it and also to see how everything works with charging and stuff. And cuz its a Hybrid you dont have to stress about charging. And when you get used to it then hope over to a pure EV. So if you are not sure, its a great in the middle option IMO of course.
Can't really argue with that. What I would say is that it's quite a costly stepping stone. There are so many services out there now that enable you to rent an EV for a month or two to see whether you can make it work or not. I wonder, if you'd had the chance to test out a Tesla straight out of your BMW, whether you'd have decided to go full 'leccy right away
I often wonder if most PHEV owners actually bother to plug the car in most of the time. With a BEV plugging in is just habitual and if you forgot then you could not drive it whereas to a PHEV owner plugging in might just seem a bit of a hassle.
Dealerships love Hybids because they keep you hooked on routine maintenance. Dealerships like selling you those expensive maintenance plans that ICE vehicles require because an ICE vehicle will need a lot more maintenance. They are also much more likely to need parts. Many ICE owners may want upgraded or performance parts, something EV's don't need. Dealers make a lot of money off of this and is a big reason traditional dealerships don't want to sell fully electric vehicles. Indeed, most of the profits a dealership makes are from the sales of parts and services for gasoline and diesel vehicles, profits from the sales of new vehicles alone won't keep the lights on. Once an new EV leaves the dealership it may never go back. I'm not responsible for a dealerships career choice. Kick all forms of the ICE habit. With the typical new EV getting between 250 and 350 miles per charge and long range EV's getting 400 miles or more (Lucid and Tesla are both offering models capable of 520 miles for their longest range versions), why mess with an internal combustion engine unless you absolutely have to. If you need a truck and frequently need to go more than 300 miles then get an ICE pickup. If you're a traveling salesman or other career field that keeps you on the road most of the time then get an ICE vehicle. For everyone an EV can't be beat for convenience. No hours wasted sitting in customer lounges waiting for oil changes or other routine maintenance. No having to stop at gas stations, especially uncomfortable on those nasty below freezing winter mornings. Only 2 seconds of your day required to refuel, one second to plug it in before going to bed and one second to unplug it in the morning (if your EV gets 350 miles or more per charge you'll likely only need to do this once a week). Full tank every morning, warmed and defrosted before opening your garage door or leaving your driveway.
Hybrid is still a great option even today, it offers way more capabilities than a BEV, you can easily bring your hybrid car overlanding or camping where an EV will never go, there are tons of plus with hybrids.
Robert's face is so expressive. "What, in the office?" Faint disgust.
Absolutely eloquent. Love it. You should be an actor, Bob.
The kid has potential!
I KNOW! - I think he'd be great playing something like, say a mechanoid with a rubber face...or something...!?
Just an idea...
@@andymccabe6712 Nah...he'd need to change the voice
You'd think he would jump at the idea of making a video in the office...no energy whatsoever wasted on travelling anywhere.
Well, I had traveled to the office . . . . but I take your point
If a PHEV fits your driving needs then it's great! We have two Chevy Volts. They go 50 miles without even starting the gas engine. Some of us still can't afford a Tesla, BTW.
We have a Chevy volt that uses fuel a couple of times a year. It’s brilliant tech.
I drove my Volt 4k miles before filling the gas tank. It cost much less than a new Leaf after incentives. I get a max range of 72 miles on battery, but love the option of taking a longer trip with the gas. A small inexpensive phev is an excellent entry point to EVs!
@@fairman14065 I've recently bought a 2019. Sometimes it will go 60 miles on a charge. My wife's 2013 forced her to burn half a tank because the gas was 6 months old. The computer keeps track of it.
Sshhh, Fully Charged don't like those kind of opinions.
That's essentially it. An EV with 300 miles or so of range which is what the Ioniq gets and it's more on the affordable side of things
If I get a used PHEV, it's at least cheaper than buying an Ioniq. For me, a PHEV would be great for commuting and then also driving to my parent's house. I am however talking about buying used PHEVs more than buying new ones
I see it as you just have around £15-20 worth of fuel in there (with today's prices), and you don't have to worry about the fuel going stale
My previous car was a Prius since I wanted something more economical for my daily commute round the M25. I used to play the "how long can I go without the petrol engine cutting in" game and it was absolutely my gateway drug to a full BEV. The Prius was replaced with a Tesla Model 3 SR+ which has fully satisfied those cravings for a smooth, quiet electric drive.
thats the crux that a lot of people miss. BEVs are SO much nicer to drive. I drive locally most of the time on twisty country roads. In full regen/1 pedal drive mode its so much better than constant gear shifting. On the motorway with the adaptive cruise its more relaxing on a long drive. ( ive driven more than 15 hours in a day and wasnt wrecked the next day. Same journey in a manual petrol and im not recovered until 24 hours later. Stop/start traffic the car just sorts it out and i occasionally just have thumb the button on the steering wheel to get it going. Manual petrol you are considering a hip replacement op after an hour or so.
Hybrids use electric in stop/start city-style driving. This results in fewer emissions in cities where pollution is a health issue.
The anti-PHEV on this video is not surprising but disappointing.
1. With batteries materials in limited supply you can build 4 PHEV with (35-50 mile range) for the same battery size as 1 BEV with 250 miles. With most journeys less than 40 miles (US) you'll have a bigger impact on total CO2 emissions
2. Yes you're carrying an engine that's not used most of the time but in a BEV you are carrying 4 times the battery that you're not using most of the time!
3. Yes PHEV has an engine with many moving parts but engines have been refined and are overall reliable so this argument is moot
4. The fuel issue was solved by pressurizing the tank so the fuel will last at least a year
5. You don't need fast charging on a PHEV - the idea is you charge it at home,
Yes BEV's can be better but they are not for everyone (yet). Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good!
I find the "BEV only!" attitude so elitist and irritating. A PHEV is a brilliant way to help more households slash their emissions without a huge investment. Rather than 100 kwh of battery being consumed by a single (and usually very expensive) BEV, auto makers can split that up 5 ways and build 5 PHEVs with a 20kwh battery. That would allow 5 households to enjoy 50 gas-free miles every day, while only burning gas for occasional road trips. PHEVs don't require building a EV charger network, and at home you don't need a fast charger - you can just plug it into a standard outlet and it will charge overnight. They are a turn key solution to slashing emissions.
If the government promoted PHEV adoption, we could slash emissions now. Instead we're creating huge price pressure on battery prices because of these "BEV only!" folks that are convinced that shoving 100 kwh batteries into every single car is the "only" solution. It is not, and it's a very wasteful use of rare minerals, as 80 if those kwh are rarely used. Share them with 4 other cars instead! Enough with this battery hogging mentality.
PHEVs are more practical, require no charger infrastructure, and far more affordable to build. There aren't enough batteries to support everyone going full EV. Continuing to ignore this reality is only going to inflate battery demand and inflate prices - making even PHEVs too expensive for most households. Let's instead "share the battery cells!" And encourage more 20 kWh PHEV adoption to slash global gas consumption more quickly and affordably.
Agreed.
That’s a very incorrect and unnecessary way to produce cars
Hybrid = Higher cost of owning, as they have a gas engine etc...
@@wonderplanet343 in order to avoid spending time at EV chargers during long road trips it is 100% worth the small premium.
BEV owners tend to have the follower mindset and a constant need to justify their purchase due to low self esteem. Just do what everyone else does: ignore them.
A regular hybrid is probably still the best option for someone who lives in an apartment and has no good charging-at-home options.
I also see many people dismiss PHEVs as being too compromised - and that can make sense from the perspective of someone who lives in a more urban built out area with good car charging options, which many people do. But a PHEV can make a lot more sense for people who live in rural areas and occasionally need to travel long distances.
I own an i3 Rex and I use the ICE once every couple months, often travelling to places that have little to no charging options.
I have a Toyota Chr Hybrid, love it and I judge it worthwhile as I went from 35mpg in my old Mazda to 57-63mpg+ in the hybrid, hopefully the next car in a few years will be full electric, and hopefully the charging network will have improved and expanded by then.
Same here, a year ago I went from a 2009 diesel CRV to a 2017 C-HR self charging hybrid and it’s brilliant. Average 58mpg but can get into high 60’s. Yes I would like a pure electric car, but simply couldn’t afford one as what I would want is twice the price. I will keep the C-HR for a few years & then change. Point worth noting, I bought used so the car already existed and so CO2 had already been used building it.
One of the reasons dealers would resist selling EV’s is the problems involved with getting technicians that are capable of repairing them. The basic EV training required by the manufacturers is based around working safely rather than actually understanding and learning the necessary skills to carry out repairs. Manufacturers tend to steer technicians toward changing major components under manufacturers guidance rather than teaching proper diagnostic skills. What this means for the customer is extremely long repair times sometimes months, and once out of warranty period, extremely expensive repair costs and for the dealer that has to deal with the customers who rightfully expect the same level of service they had with their ICE car, it’s just not worth the hassle. I drive an MG5 and I’m a retired EV qualified vehicle technician and absolutely love driving my EV and would never go back, but when talking with my local dealer they admitted to me that they have but one technician qualified to work on the EV’s decided by lottery rather than the technician himself and a short conversation made it clear that his experience/expertise was limited so much so that I was asked if I wanted a job and I’m a 70 year old fart…..
I’ve driven a Honda Clarity PHEV for 3 years which has been a wonderful transition. It has allowed me to drive 90% electric while waiting for full electric car technology to mature with options from many manufacturers.
Live in a house perchance? And, majority of your journeys are local, maybe? Without this information it is hard to tell whether this would stand for "most car owners at the moment".
@@aacmove Yes, I live in a standalone house and 90% or more of my driving is local. In addition, I have a large solar array and a level two charger. What works for me does not work for everyone.
PHEV is great due to incomplete infrastructure for electric car charging stations. In the city I live, Hyundai has a rescue service for their make EV owners. When your Hyundai EV runs out of battery and stranded in road, you can phone the emergency service. They will drive a rescue car to your location and use the rescue car's battery to charge your car's battery. You do not need that if you drive a PHEV.
I have a Toyota Yaris Hybrid and for what I need it works very well, the fuel economy is really good (has never gone below 55mpg) and it is cool running on battery power in the city. However, my next car will definitely be BEV!
Toyota Yaris Hybrid would be perfect for my usage but they're priced around $33,000. Like all hybrids and electrics, way too expensive.
@@toby9999 I bought a 5 year old Toyota Auris TS Hybrid in 2020, for 10.000 euro. Absolutely nothing wrong with it and a very decent fuel economy. I think that now the fleet-sales of EV's are on the rise, there will be plenty of ex-fleet hybrids of 3, 4 or 5 years old coming onto the second hand market. Here in Europe, ex-fleet cars are usually well maintained, low mileage and high specs. And decent price too. And the looks and technology of three to five years ago, isn't old-fashioned yet. So all in all quite an attractive alternative to buying new.
55mpg is basically what I got from my 2005 Peugeot 206SW. There are more recent diesel cars which achieve far better mpg than that. It's hard to se what you're gaining by having an expensive and complex hybrid.
@@PeterChinkin hes gaining not having to drive a diesel
I got one of these for my parents. It was good for the very limited amount of driving they did although I certainly wouldn't say it always does better than 55mpg.
You also have to be very wary of the 12v battery running down if you leave it standing for a few days.
Great conversation and interesting to hear your thinking ….. however as the owner of a ‘self charging’ Toyota hybrid I have to say that out here in the countryside of rural Cornwall a ‘self charging’ hybrid makes a lot of sense. With minimal charging network available the Toyota system just makes sense, giving you excellent fuel economy and low CO2 emissions while having no range anxiety for longer trips. I would agree with you entirely about the benefits of a BEV if I was living in a city area with good charging facilities, but the reality of living outside cities is that the network is just not good enough yet.
Could you charge at home? If yes, then you would never need to charge in Cornwall or Devon, although probably would on the way back from London.
@@ianmurray250 This is a question that the industry and government need to ask.
There are a reasonable percentage of homes that could not have home charging.
I 100% can not.
My mums house has its own parking space, but it is separated from the property by a public pathway. The parking space is also technically still council property.
My Dads place would involve resurfacing a long disused dirt track and knocking down not only his shed and his immediate neighbours sheds but sheds, garages and fences along the entire 1/8 mile track. The track belongs to everybody who backs onto it for the bit that they back onto.
A lot of the garages have become irrelevant down that track with cars getting so much bigger over the years.
There is still a very long way to go before BEV can be relevant for everyone at the same time.
I recently went to a KIA dealership to test drive the E-Niro but they kept pushing me to go with the hybrid and kept telling me the EVs were a waste of money.
Even after telling them multiple times, I was not interested in any form of ICE, they still kept push me to at least take a hybrid for a test drive. In the end I gave up and said sure. Surprise surprise, the hybrid was just what I expected (because I had driven one before for a month as a hire car AND I told them this). Ended up walking out getting no further as the dealer wouldn't stop pushing the hybrid and kept pushing about how much I wouldn't want the EV.
Walked out after over an hour of trying to get the test drive for the EV (that I booked in advance for by the way). Some of these dealers are a total waste of time.
I think it's good to get more people using electric propulsion for their day to day. A plug-in hybrid is the best way to do that. For a BEV, you can build 10 plug-in hybrids.
No, Batteries aren't the only material cost of building a car.
Just went from full electric to self charging hybrid. Can't get a charger at home, allocated parking space is 50m away. Rapid public charger are starting to cost more than petrol or diesel, sick of having to go to Asda at 10pm at night to do 40mins of shopping to charge the car. People are getting aggressive at public rapid charger because EV are increasing but public charger isn't increasing as fast. Dump the EV and go for Hybrid, cost about the same and I don't need to take into account of 2 hours of service having double lunch for long drives.
Thanks Jack and Robert. I’m driving an electric car since 2 years and I will never buy an ICE car ever again. Love from France!
Greetings from Canada. You are right about Gasoline (Petrol) breaking down over time. This should not be a surprise as it takes quite a bit of processing to prepare gasoline. Essentially the more volatile components escape into the atmosphere. Fuel stabilizers help, but they only delay the inevitable. Gasoline left long enough, smells like varnish. Additionally, the blending of gasoline varies depending on the time of the year, at least here in Canada - more precisely its formulation varies depending on the likely temperature at which it will be consumed. Diesel fuel also deteriorates with age. As an engineer doing Disaster Recovery Planning this is problematic. Typically, most emergency power plants only have enough fuel storage to last for 24-72 hours depending on the degree of risk for securing further deliveries during an emergency.
Talking to a few people recently I’ve realised there are some that initials think ‘self charging hybrids’ mean the battery charges from the wheels. That’s probably why your neighbour thought he wouldn’t need petrol
Good to see the condescension in the videos is still there. Over a year since I last watched one.
Maybe I am in minority, but I consider sensible range PHEV still best for me: nightly charges for town use, fuel for longer, but quite rare journeys (with less consumption at that). For the longer journeys the BEV infra is not good enough yet in my regions of interest, so that (the BEV infra) seems to be a key deciding factor whether or not a BEV is best for your use cases. In the areas where all infra is equal (most of urban USA and Western EU), indeed a BEV makes more sense, especially with the newer models with fast charging.
After returning from a long journey using public chargers at service stations, eating expensive crap food while the car charges,, dealing with broken chargers, not enough chargers, getting soaked, being moaned at by the wife and paying 70p per kw. I'm convinced that unless you're doing local driving and can charge using your home charger, I would stay away from EVs. Theyre expensive and to be honest, the journey going south was stressful and I spent the last few days of my holiday thinking about the return leg up north. Ok I get a low BIK company car rate which is great, but after that I don't see the benefit.
For a minute, imagine you are living in central Canada and it is 200 miles to your destination and -35C outside. You will appreciate the IC aspect of your hybrid if for the engine heat if nothing else.
As for the complexity, that is another issue.
The best solution is probably to have an appropriately sized IC vehicle for the time being. In this case, it six to be single because of the insurance cost if nothing else.
Hybrid Plug-In system in 3-ton SUV -> the wonderful solution to a problem that might not have been...
Actually a 48V mild hybrid DOES just run on electric only BUT only when you are stopped. The engine switches off and the car maintains everything running using the 48V battery (fans, radio, aircon, heated seats etc). So a 48V mild hybrid won’t DRIVE without the engine but it does operate while stopped with the engine off.
Drove a really long way, to Leeds or something. 200miles. Hahaha.
No a really long way is what’s common in Australia 500, 800, 1000, 1500+ km.
Why is no one talking about HEV/HFCEV hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles? They are better than any of the other options.
You can’t say Get a Prius rather than a large PHEV SUV as a Prius won’t suit someone who needs a 7 seater. A VW EUPP won’t suit someone who needs an off-road 4WD vehicle.
Great explanations, clarifies the debate. One missing comment on the fact that quite a few PHEV owners simply never bother to plug it, which is a shame and give these cars an ugly reputation in some countries: polluting with a state subsidy...(CH). Besides, I disagree with the comment on the useless range extender on BMW i3s. They allow to max out your battery use without ever being worried of not making it home. Maybe they are used for just a few km every other week, but then they are such a stress saving accessory. To this day the i3 with a REx remains the best ever compromise. It will become a cult car I believe. Buy one before they turn the production line off for good this summer.
Hybrids still have a mainstay in today's world as we move forward with phasing out gas only cars with in the next 10-15 years. Sure you still have both a gas engine and the hybrid battery but in most major cities; hybrids spend more time in "ev mode" than they do running the engine while sitting and moving in slow traffic. Boston for example; I was gridlocked for nearly 3 hours leaving a concert at Fenway park a few years ago and about 70-80% of that time, the gas engine on my Prius wasn't kicking on until the hybrid battery depleted and came back on to recharge. Sitting in traffic or slow moving traffic, I've would've wasted so much gas in a non hybrid while having a hybrid to conserve that gas when needed is a money money saver. Move forward a few years later and I have a RAV4 Hybrid and most of my commutes between errands and work I managed over 40+ mpg in the warm weather and low to mid 30s in the winter. Having a gas model car of that size, there is no way I'd be getting that type of MPG and end result, I'd be spending more at the pump for more frequent fill ups. I've got 400 - almost 600 miles on a tank of gas before needing to fill up again. My last car was a Corolla which barely got 300 miles out of a tank. Hybrids have a place still and until more reliable long range evs that charge at a fast rate that's actually affordable to the average person; especially in the States, Hybrids and plug in hybrids will be here to stay until prices for EVs go down and sooner or later; and when the chip problem is resolved.
"The self charging" hybrid is a good marketing ploy because even now in 2022; so many people who don't know cars or don't know how hybrids work. So many hybrid owners share the same stories of having friends/family/etc asking them how do they charge their hybrid? And owners explaining you don't need to plug it in. And its a shame that a lot of American's, especially southern Americans are pure coal burning diesel heads and are anti hybrid/ev or having the huge misconception that Hybrid cars aren't reliable which Toyota has a proven record of reliability every year for over 20 years with their Prius and now other models in their line up that are Hybrid are proving their reliability as well. So many cab drivers in the major cities see well over 300,000-500,000 on their Prius taxis on the original battery. Toyota Hybrids are known to have less moving parts than traditional gas engines and the cost of ownership of Toyota hybrids have proven year after year to be dramatically cheaper than their gas counterparts.
Having a tiny 3 cylinder petrol/gas car vs a hybrid SUV... I love small cars and always have a soft spot for them but having a growing family as most people do when they get older, and you include your spouses family with your own, family road trips, running errands, picking up groceries or supplies from the home improvement store, packing baby strollers, diaper bags, and when you include yourself, a 6 ft adult and everyone else in your family and your spouses family who are 6ft plus...cramming full size adults into a yaris size car is painful. It's doable but its not fun. I use to be so anti SUV for the longest time until I test drove a RAV4 hybrid (which I now own), I couldn't go back to a smaller car. Again, my Corolla was barely getting over 30 mpg where my RAV4 gets over 40+ mpg. Unfortunately, the modern SUV is the new station wagon of today. Where our parents and grandparents drove station wagons, now the modern station wagon is the SUV. Same body type but lifted a few inches up for ground clearance. Why sacrifice you and your families comfort to be in a small car vs a RAV4 type hybrid and have room to actually breathe. As a single bachelor or even a retiree; a small car makes total sense. Living in the Northeast of America, having any car with good ground clearance and having AWD is a must. So many people got stranded during the last blizzard but most essential workers made it to work with their AWD SUVs and trucks. Most front wheel drive cars can drive ok in the snow, but in 18 inches, its near impossible.
That's another thing too. Hybrid and EVs don't operate as well in the cold. So many EV owners this past winter in the states were stranded on highways during one of the biggest blizzards in recent memory and the EV owners ran out of electricity while being stuck. Least with a hybrid, you can set them on an auto temp setting and the engine only kicks on when needed to recharge the battery before shutting off again. So many people actually convert their hybrids into mini living campers because of this feature alone. In New England, The Northwest, the south and most of Texas, when Hurricanes, Tornados, Floods, Blizzards roll through; people are without power for days to weeks. Most grocery stores and gas stations run on generators; if your EV ran out of range, besides walking, how can someone make it to the grocery store or find a place to recharge. Even if your home runs on generator; unless you have a good amount of fuel stored to keep it going til the power is restored; how can you make to the gas station to get fuel for your generator if your EV doesn't have enough charge to get there? The infrastructure currently isn't equipped to handle the entire population to be driving EV at this point. The US power grid needs a massive overhaul. Just look at California with their rolling black outs every summer when the most energy is consumed. I'm not anti EV and I would love to own a long range awd ev one day. But we are not where we need to be yet to fully transition every person to drive an EV. So far now, hybrids and plug ins is the way to go until such a change can happen.
A valid point that's made is that while it might make more sense to buy a short range EV is your commutes are short. But for the majority of Americans; a short range EV is not logical unless its strictly a work vehicle while having a 2nd car/gas car as a back up for long trips. Why spend extra money on buying two cars for the same purpose when you can have a hybrid/plug in hybrid or if you can afford it, a long range EV. But until prices go down where the average person can afford a long range affordable EV then hybrids and plug ins are here to stay.
I think it depends on the range you need. If you have a lot of long drives, hybrids make sense. I drive for 1500km sometimes across Europe and using an electric car would be a pain
It was rude to continuously only refer to the huge hulking SUV PHEV or the ridiculous i8, as if those are the only PHEV models.
Comparing a 50 MPG ICE to a Defender PHEV?
Really?
I don't think the same person is shopping those two cars.
The gas doesn't go stale in a PHEV, because they've thought about that, and run the gas engine on schedule.
You don't really consider yourself a better engineer than the people that build the cars, do you?
I do agree in part with the Toyota electrification policy. 100 cars with 1 kWh batteries, instead of 1 car with 100 kWh, and 99 cars with no battery. You admitted that you ignored CO2 emissions. Toyota says the goal is not eliminating fossil fuels, it is eliminating CO2.
I have a LEAF. I love the BEV. But then I want to drive the occasional long distance.
We are not ready to do that yet in a BEV.
With my PHEV, I can drive my average of 25 miles per day without any gasoline, but when I want to go 400 miles, I can do it non-stop, at high speed. I don't need to budget in a lunch stop that I didn't want, just to charge for an hour or more.
8:45 PHEV are slow to charge because they are only meant to be charged overnight, at home.
And also because they are already so heavier than petrol, hybrid and electric cars that adding a high power charger would add even more weight!
I think the 2 most important discussion points being price of entry and range benifits of hybrids was very glazed over here.
When Jack waves the wand at 17:38 and turns the light above his head on 😮.
Towing and carrying is still an issue on cheap, small BEVs. Have kept my diesel estate (VW passat (50-60 mpg, 245000 miles and 19 years old) for camping holidays for canoe, bikes, tent etc. My BMW i3 just can't do it and I don't need an enormous BEV for most of the year.
There is still a place for hybrids here in NZ. EVs are still difficult to get hold of here with 6 to 12 month waiting lists. EVs are still too expensive and there is also limited choice here. No VW IDs, no Skoda's and no MG5. The MG ZS EV is at least 6 months away. When it comes to used cars, if you only have 1 car in your family, then a hybrid is an affordable option. Friends recently bought a used Prius station wagon hybrid, because of lack of affordable EV choice in the second hand market, and no EV station wagon options. We've got a Hyundai Ioniq EV and love it, but our other car is an Outlander for big camping trips, towing and white water kayaking, and because we have 2 vehicles, one of them is able to be an EV
Big problem for BEV cars here in the stretched out United States (unless you own a Tesla) is the lack of charging infrastructure in many areas. We are slowly working on this but years down the road until we have similar fast charging capabilities to GB, Europe, and China. For many people that drive locally and use their car / truck for longer trips the plug in hybrids are more realistic. For around town a small electric is great, but usually with a small range (my city car and one of the best for pure urban / suburban commuting is a 2016 Smart ED with a bike rack). Unfortunately America still largely disdains small vehicles. Long way to go here in the colonies!
The EU regulations are changing to roughly double the CO2 of PHEVs, to better represent the fact that (based on real-world data they've gathered) people generally don't charge their PHEVs
To be frank "self-charging hybrid" does make sense in countries like Poland where there are little to no plugs, and you don't have a place to charge yourself, and if you are planning to run mostly in the cities, AND as long as it's cheap to operate like Toyota Hybrid. So very specific niche, you burn like 4/5l of fuel instead of 7/8l.
Also, how could you give no recognition for overengineered Chevy Bolt // Oper/Vauxhall Ampera that was amazing, but just a bit expensive, this plugin hybrid can also work in a specific environment, for instance, if you can only charge at home lvl1 charger and drive to work around 20 kilometers, yes you drag engine, etc. but when you go to vacation you have no range anxiety and you pollute similarly to a gasoline car (around 7l/100km). (except for all the time you go to work where you almost do not pollute at all.
So it's not like there is no market for them, again it's just a very specific niche.
HEV: 800km+ of range in 5 min., anywhere in the world, using any payment card, and even cash(!)
BEV: IF you can find a working super duper charger, around 300km in 20 min., but for the majority of chargers 1 hour+
-If you don't want to be ripped off in pay-as-you-go you have to be subscribed to at least one of the many networks
-Can't just plug your car and start pumping Kw, needs setting up (more time)
-The charger network reliability means you'll be thinking of stopping at 1/3 capacity instead of the reserve line, just in case a few are broken, so your usable range is way less than what the car can actually do (more time)
Charging BEVs is an adventure compared to ICEs, and takes a whole lot of time and effort if you can't do it all at home. Total losers when it comes to ease of use.
Also won't save you much money when using public chargers, and the cars are much more expensive.
Honourable mention to the unknown reliability after 8/10 years, which everyone conveniently ignores.
BEVs? Not yet
All very cogent and reasonable claims, ignoring one massive, overriding and critically important factor.
Men, and this does seem to be gender specific, totally and utterly ignore the fuel used in combustion engines.
They ignore it as if had never been mentioned and just simply wasn't an issue.
They don't deny it's an issue, or try to paper over the horrific reality that results from burning billions of barrels of toxic fuel every day.
They just ignore it and stater a grab onto bag of selfish, narrow, blinkered 'facts' about charge times (of vehicles they have no experience of) and demand the basic human right to continue to burn fossil fuel in hopelessly inefficient old technology.
So I truly don't care how fast you can fill a tank with imported, expensive, toxic fuel. It's very very boring and utterly irrelevant.
@@fullychargedshow , living in your ivory tower, where men don't care about pollution, everybody can afford to buy a brand new car, and has access to individual overnight charging , where batteries and motors are available for all cars being made worldwide.
You're deluded, and sexist, to the point of it being a mental health problem.
If you really want to help the world, go lobby the government and the industry to build more fast chargers, and improve battery technology, because you're pretty clueless as a car commenter
unfortunately, most people don't have a spare 10 grand to 'just get an electric one'. the premium on ev's is still far too high to buy an ev over a hybrid, for most people..and thats not even including issues with lack of infrastructure and places to charge at home..(if you live in old 2up 2 down terrace housing, there is just no way you can charge from home).
One day soon, hopefully, but not at the moment.
Going to fuel up is your nightmare ! 5 minutes and pay at the pump ,such inconvenience!
Wait until your electric car burns your house down or just runs out of juice at a very inconvenient place.
I like the way BMW did it with the i3 REx. That car will allow me use battery power to meet 99% of my needs, while giving me the option to drive using the onboard generator if I don’t want the hassle or can’t waste time charging the battery normally.
I drove Toyota hybrids for 15 years. Going battery electric was just the next logical step. Plus BEVs are more fun as a bonus!!!
Great video as always, I took the daunting leap and cancelled my VW Golf GTE order last week as the time had come to replace my "self charging" Toyota Corolla, Placed my order today for a Cupra Born which after watching plenty of reviews should be no problem with my current driving range and use.
While I agree today in 2022 BEV is the way to go, when I bought my Chevy Volt in 2017 there were fewer chargers in Canada (hell there still aren't many). The Volt does 95km on battery, 500km on gas which is about as far as most ICE sedans I owned. It would run the engine at least once every 6 weeks (forces you). Of all the parts that failed on it since I bought it all of them were related to the EV power train all serviced under warranty. I loved that car it was a great runner. I ended up selling it for a downpayment on a Model 3LR which I have yet to receive...
Anyways, not all PHEVs were crap. The Volt was nice and it's a shame they cancelled the program so soon. There is clearly a gap to fill still.
I get 30 miles + on all electric with my Prius Prime 2022... fantastic car!
So 30 miles without the engine running? Is it possible to charge from a power point at home?
@@toby9999 Yep, it's about 5 hours with a regular house plug
@@toby9999 yes and yes.. 120 volt outlet takes about 5.5 hours
@@yessikg 2 hours with a 240 volt charger…
A small petrol car like a 3 cylinder Suzuki Alto makes more sense! Maybe easy for people that can charge at home.
You are being simplistic when you say a BEV is 85% efficient. Efficiency of BEV versus PHEV's or ICE's must compare end to end from the power plant to the wheels. Almost all of the electricity comes from coal and natural gas plants that have efficiencies of about 40% when you include the transmission losses.
If you multiply 40% * 85% for the BEV you get about 34% efficiency. A Prius engine is well over than 40% efficient. The other thing you need to keep in mind is road taxes and the the infrastructure cost to have a significant number of BEV's, at least in the USA. Road taxes for electricity for BEV' is going to have to be $.25 per mile to replace the petrol taxes. To upgrade our grid to use significantly more BEV's is going to cost 100's of billions perhaps trillions. That will have to go to increased cost per kilowatt hour. When we try to increase the number of BEV's the cost of lithium, cobalt and nickel are going to skyrocket(supply and demand). This will easily double the cost of BEV's, and people won't be able to afford them. For the foreseeable future, I think a hybrid with a highly efficient optimized ICE engine of about 20HP and a generator with batteries or a Supercap/Ultracap is the optimum solution. The vehicle should have only enough batteries to go about 20 miles and should run on gas, natural gas or diesel. The batteries really only supply acceleration. This will keep the vehicle weight down, and the highest overall efficiency. Eventually when we are forced to go to nuclear power and the batteries are improved i.e. smaller with less weight than existing batteries, the BEV will be the best solution. The argument that solar and wind will provide the low cost electricity is nonsense. The needed infrastructure and sheer amount of raw materials that would have to come from China and Russia to build the solar panels, windmills, and the needed battery backup will be a disaster for the free world economies. With a small optimized engine the catalytic converter can be small and electrically heated. Another thing that seems to be forgotten is heating the vehicle in cold weather, the waste heat from the engine isn't wasted in cold weather. This is a real problem for BEV's.
Really interesting episode, thanks! I really want to buy a fully electric car but my issue is how/where to charge.. I live in a large block of flats on south coast… on street parking can’t charge at home, and not many public charging points locally… I am just waiting for more charging opportunities- meanwhile Honda hrv self charging on the cards… 🧐
Worth trying to badger the company who manage the flats, and anyone else you can think of - employer, council, supermarket, etc. Point out that they are going to have to put in chargers eventually, so why not this year. If going hybrid, consider that many supermarkets have chargers, google Zap-Map for local area and charging prices.
I think whether or not Hybrids are practical, is heavily dependent on where you live, and the abundance of electric vehicle support infrastructure.
I live in Vancouver, and sadly there are a TINY number of charging stations in the entire metropolitan area, including suburbs. Those places that do have charging stations, are so few, and when they do exist, they have very few spots to park. Much of the urban areas are also reliant on apartments, not houses or townhouses, so you're talking about buildings that have very few if any charging stations for their residents.
I know a couple that bought a tesla, wonderful electric vehicle...problem is that they live in an apartment and there is only 2 parking spots with charging slots and trying to get one of them to use is almost like trying to win the lottery.
In my city, 100% electric vehicles simply are not practical. Hybrids on the other hand are much more practical as their range is considerably larger and with new self-charging systems like using their gas engines to charge their batteries while driving, extends their range a great deal. I have a Prius Prime, and I've saved massive amounts of money on gas because I am able to plug and charge it at home and use the battery as effectively as I can.
But I think it certainly has to do with support infrastructure. If you don't have charging stations, electric vehicle simply aren't practical.
One of the best things we can all do is drive smaller more efficient vehicles! These great big 4x4s are usually just status symbols that never get used as off road vehicles! Smaller means more fun to drive, easier to park, more efficient, cheaper to fuel, cheaper to service & less resources required to manufacture. Also, buy used. These cars already exist so CO2 already used to manufacture, shame to waste this. Buy a used Toyota, get it serviced with Toyota & get a up to 10 years or 100000 mile warranty!
We kept our BMW i3-REx because of 72 mi EV and only a generator, no transmission. The 2017 Prius Prime had too short, 25 mi EV, and worse, no EV only mode below 55 F.
I her what you’re saying about most trips only being a few miles, but that’s why we need to get more people on a bicycle, ebike, escooter etc
CORRECTION TO THE TITLE “ An IDOITS GUIDE to going full electric … HYBRID IS THE FUTURE
I know because I drive a BMW Rex hybrid and full electric is MADNESS , range anxiety and now long queue’s for charging stations especially on motorway monopolies
I just bought a full hybrid because I can't charge at home or at work and probably won't be able to do that for at least a few years. Would have preferred full electric but since I can't charge that wasn't an option unfortunately. I will certainly switch to full electric in a few years though.
The problem is BEV technology is still not the greatest. The vehicle weight is going up massively, ranges are still not the greatest and most importantly the charging speeds are awful. Finally Hyundai, Kia and Porsche are introducing 800V charging which is starting to make people oh and hum thinking ok I can deal with 20-30 min charging times. But honestly, in the cold, after losing some range, waiting 40mins in the middle of a what should be a 3 hr drive isn't making me think wow, I want to spend 20-25k more on a car to get an BEV. That's the reality of it here in Canada.
I think Hybrids would of been much better if they were established 10-20 years ago rather than now, the concept of regenerating power on braking / downhill for later use in town and petrol for faster speeds is sound and they are in my mind still a good stop gap for full electric. I am however unsure whether to go for full electric yet or just keep my full petrol car a bit longer (i can't charge at home)
I live on a small island, so unless I'm travelling somewhere on the mainland, 90 per fent of my trips are less than 10 miles.
So for that I use a petrol vw up, which is good on fuel and cost 6 k to buy with only low miles on it.
My point is that I'd be perfect for a plug in but the electric version of my car is 20k, even used examples, which, being retired, I can't afford.
I can't be the only one in this boat?
For now, hybrids by far the best option with efficiency and no range anxiety or charging problems.
Over Christmas long queues of Teslas and other evs waiting to spend over 30 or 40 minutes to charge up with insufficient or out of use charging points....what a pantomime.....3 hour journeys turning into 5 or 6 hour nightmares for some.
Long term, ev or hydrogen may be the answer but for now the trusty hybrid suits most drivers.....at an acceptable price.
I'm still ranting about the way TfL, the London government, have classified the BMW i3 REx as a hybrid and tax them every day. They are not a hybrid, they are a BEV inside the M25 quite clearly, the little scooter derived petrol engine never drives the wheels so it's not a hybrid.
Even California (crooks) in the US classifies the i3 REx as a BEV !!
So, there's no version for me?
A Combustion engine like the Mild-Hybrid, but can drive a decent distance on Electric and can be charged
Basically a car that can drive to the store on Electric, drive long distance on Fuel, have asisted power/fuel eficiency from the eletric motor and if the combustion engine failed for any reason i could drive eletric to the nearest mechanic.
This is exactly what a PHEV does. Mild hybrid only improves the engine's performance and MPG, it's a small electric motor which helps the normal engine be more efficient. Mild-hybrids can't run on electric motors only, the ICE stays on all the time
It's always nice to hear you, even if I don't care about hybrids. In your next rant, could you please please talk about the outrageous prices of charging in Portugal? 🙏
The Amperage was an interesting concept - though it did need a bit more battery.
The other was the Chevy bolt - a fully serial hybrid with multiple clutches for interesting options…
How do the heaters and air conditioners work in fully electric cars and how much does it affect the range?
The issue with EV is the range and the time it takes to charge + they are expensive to buy.
Maybe in England those ideas work but across the pond in the colonies, we go on trips that are much longer than the entire UK... such as New York to Los Angeles or Seattle Washington to Miami Florida. EVs are... at this time... impractical for us Americans. We travel for 12 or more hours straight... we can't drive for 5 hours and then wait 12 hours to fully charge our EVs...IF you can find a recharge station. The infrastructure is horrible at the moment. Hybrids, on the other hand, are practical because we get about 40-59 MPG and we can stop and fill up our tanks with petrol in about 3 minutes. When EVs can shorten their recharge time and increase their range to over 500 miles... then you have a valid point. Until that time, your argument does not hold water.
Probably you need to research your position much more? Maybe 1% of Americans drive long distance. Nobody wants to spend 4 of their 7 vacation days driving- we fly. Or at least rent a car and put the wear and miles on that instead of your car. But your pretend cross country trip would only add a few hours to the overall time. Education is the key. But I agree that in the US for another few years that most people need a hybrid or PHEV since most people can't charge at home or work.
@@davidmccarthy6061 we are in a unique position... and we love taking long trips... more often than you think. The destination of the vacation is not what we cherish... it's the trip and the way we get there... the journey. And haven't you heard? Americans have a love affair with their cars... more than any other culture on the planet. Give me an EV that can go 500+ miles and that can recharge in less than half an hour... and I'll buy it on the spot. I'll replace all my vehicles.
Batteries can not be relied on in bitter cold. Nor can anyone sit in an electric car for 20 minutes while it gets a charge in freezing temps. Don't take this wrong. I'm all for electrics. The self charging might solve at least one of those issues.
In India its a different story , I have a old EV with 80mile range and still run a petrol car for long distance. In India long range electric cars are expensive due to high import duties on components and batteries.
I would LOVE an EV, believe me, but:
- I do a 1600km roatrip 3-4 times a year, and I like to do that without a sleepover, can do that in my BEV in 15hrs, and be done from morning till evening
- I don't have a way of charging the car, because I rent, and just no option, and charging on public paid chargers does not calculate
Agree though that PHEVs suck - really worst of both worlds, I promise guys, my next car will be an EV though, in 5+ years... I'm asking for 600km+ range and
Unless your power grid is Nuclear powered, ie 24hr base load reliable, with charging stations every 50 km apart and you don't travel over 200 km a day then a EV might be for you.
A PHEV is a viable compromise that helps reduce emissions in cities and high density areas while still maintaining autonomy away from the support network.
I will keep my 1986 Diesel Land Rover whose life cycle embedded energy and related emissions would now be zero, it has already outlived 5 life cycles of a full EV vehicle with all the emissions and waste produced. in the process and shows no sign of failing yet.
two years on second hand electric car values have fell off a cliff and petrol and diesel have kept up
I have the prius v that has a gas engine and electric motor butt I think my next car will be a small electric only car just because of what you guys have explained in this video.
A PHEV is exactly the same as a full EV in most cases... except cheaper, more convenient, and less resource intensive to manufacture. If you are not exceeding the range on electric for the majority of trips, there is no point in hauling around a couple tons of batteries.
I hope the Aptera does go into production this time. Light ,efficient ,compact and not too expensive BEVs are what is needed for the masses. Aptera has the advantage of solar,may never need charging,at least in the sunnier parts of the world.(like N.Z & Australia)
Yeah it is the perfect car for commuting and is deceptive in size. It looks small but actually has quite a bit of trunk space and safety wise they use a survival cell. I anticipate there will be a lot of copying going on (especially in China). If the production design does not have any major reliability or cosmetic problems after the first round go out and start racking up the km I am all in for one, plus they are all about right to repair and modularity so big win there also.
A rather brilliant concept, was under my top 3 yet-to-come SEVs (beside the Lightyear 1 from the NL and the Sion from Germany).
Living just 200 km from Sonomotor's headquarter, preferring a 4-5 seater and looking for an EV wirh a trailer hook, I finally decided (and per-ordered) the Sion.
The Lightyear would have beaten both, but for the price I'd get 5 (!) Sions or Apteras.
Oh, and finally I'm not sure when the Aptera will pass homologation for my country. (Even they couldn't tell...)
But I pretty much will stay tremendously curious about all three of them, for sure! 🤩👍
The masses? Good God, please protect us from people like Simon. I want to buy what I want and let Simon buy what he wants.
33 likes so far. Sure you can buy what you want.Have a nice life.
You can drag around a ICE and fuel/exhaust system in a plug-in hybrid or a lot of battery capacity you aren't using all the time. It appears that the weight might be comparable between the two. If PHEVs had 50 mile electric range you could spread the batteries out across a lot more consumers. Most people don't need 300 miles of electric range. Just like most people don't need 1000 horsepower. But people are trying to knock down the plug-in hybrids in favor of battery only cars that people don't need or can't afford.
A range extender wankel engine/generator etc runs ~150lb, with higher power genset's maybe ~200lb, better than the ~1000lb for a long range battery. Mated to ~100 mile range battery this would cover pretty much all requirements; virtually all trips would be electric only. Long range will kick in the range extender. The engine also can run on hydrogen, to keep the activist greenies happy. I'd expect the car to be plug in as well to maximise flexibility.
Or don't want to pay..
Public transport is also quicker tbh. It'd be great to see all railway lines be electrified, and for the UK to have a long term goal of putting in maglev
HS2 pushes the boundaries of the kinds of speed that traditional railways support but there is a limit.. Maglev has a limit too but a much higher limit. It's just a really expensive technology.
Hopefully once Maglev becomes cheaper, we might have say 325Mph trains which would really change the UK, given how relatively small it is
@@thecraggrat My driving needs are 95 percent urban and 5 percent total desolation. When I leave the Wasatch Front and hie to my Wyoming retreat, charging stations are practically non existent. My "electric car with a range extender" (Chevy Volt) is ideal.
Car for car what is the price difference between a PHEV with say 50 mls electric range and a BEV with say 200 mls range? I think you'll find the initial purchase price is actually quite small nowadays.
GM offered the first dedicated PHEV, but with the second gen decided it was pointless. Cheaper to ditch the engine system and go full electric. So no more Volts and instead more full EVs.
I really like my Kona Ev, only downside lately are the charging stations, apps don’t work properly or it won’t connect, or cuts out 10 mins into a charge. The network has to get better, old chargers have to be updated and add more boxes to the area. Big ev stations are a great idea, but the network for these has to grow quickly! Great show, love watching 😊
The Rona has slowed things down a bit i think. Chip shortages etc. Should be ok in next couple years.
Let's get a new law passed: any charging station which can technically provide power but is offline due to a software/connectivity issue _must_ offer free vend. I expect suddenly engineers will be appearing within hours rather than weeks
@@JamesScholesUK That'll put the price up for each unit to cover the offline MTTR.
I guess Tesla superchargers open to everyone will come to the UK soon as well.
@@sargfowler9603 I wouldn't care that the cost was higher if I could guarantee finding a working charger on my first try
I’m happy to hear hybrids aren’t the devil. I’ve just passed my driving test, I can’t afford a new car, or a second hand electric. But I’m looking at getting a second hand Prius. Thanks for this.
After having three Prius, now a hybrid RAV 4, I can assure you that you won’t be disappointed.
Good choice under the circumstances.
Well, they sort of are the devil. It takes the emissions and environmental impacts of building a petrol car + the impacts of building an EV and putting all of that into one vehicle. While marketing will tell you differently, the environmental ROI on a product like this will have to me much longer than a BEV alone. Even if that BEV is electrified by coal. They are purposely green washed to continue business as usual for big auto and the oil companies.
That said, buying one second hand keeps it active so, it wasn't a waste to make it in the first place.
@@roguea987 Making a battery for an average BEV pollutes 40x more than the batteries for a self charging Hybrid. (Simple math, there that much bigger) Pollution of making a petrol engine is negligible compared to this. Hybrids do cut down a lot on emissions compared to normal petrol/diesel vehicles.
So for the initial pollution of making just one BEV(which replaces only one ICE vehicle), you can produce and cut down road pollution of 40 petrol/diesel vehicles by swapping them for a hybrid.
Total environmental gain is larger by the masses switching to hybrids.
Not to mention that most people still have a car no2 with ICE when they need to go somewhere on a long trip. We live in a fast paced world where people already barely have enough time to fit everything they need into a day. "Just plan on taking more time travelling" sounds good in theory, but doesn't work in reality. That's why a plug-in hybrid RAV4 is the best of both worlds. You can drive up to 75km in ev mode (almost 90km in reality) and just keep going if you need to go further.
@@sasakurtovic6850
Absolute rubbish.
For starters, the RAV4 pack is 18.1 kWh (yes, i actually checked instead of guessing)
That'll be about 30-40% the size of the average BEV.
So 3 "times the pollution" not "40"....."simple math"...duh?
Pollution to make a petrol engine (AND all the extra ancillaries!) is VERY comparable to this.
.
As for "cutting emissions".
A smaller(?) engine, pulling more weight? Is going to be under more stress. It will pollute more...... Unless it's a larger engine, but in that case what's the point?
On that subject, the RAV4 Hybrid had a *2 4 litre* engine (needed to pull the weight??😂)
....
Should we get into the pollution of simply *producing* the fuel? (NOT even burning it?)
That's one of Roberts favourites.
(Check his interview with Graeme Cooper of the National Grid)
+/- 7 kW per gallon of fuel.
Enough to drive a BEV 25-35 miles, depending on the vehicle.
That immediately comes off "the bottom line" of cost AND pollution for the EV.
.....
As I said, you're guessing.
Please don't.
On the money as ever gents. My father in law called me an idiot for buying an eNiro because "you'll be replacing the battery in five years and it'll cost you £20,000". Step away from the Daily Fail......
It's crazy how much traction that particular myth still gets. Unless you own an early EARLY Leaf, the battery will outlast the rest of the car.
Well now you have to wait 5 years and drive up to your father in law to show your still functional EV and 5 years of fuel savings!
The HEV really shines in courier work as you mentioned with taxis. I purchased a used Ford Escape hybrid 4 years ago & it's been excellent as a work vehicle. At least a third better fuel mileage and the vehicle idles silently without the ICE constantly on or kicks on occasionally to keep the cabin warm. My work day might be 50 mi or 300. Add in range loss for the need for heat in the winter time and it would be difficult to make an electric only fit my needs.
I owned 3 "self-charging" hybrids in succession. To an old petrol-head, they proved to me that I wanted a full electric car. Now I have a full BEV but it would not have happened if the hybrids hadn't persuaded me how good electric power, albeit for a mile or less, really could be.
That’s a fair point !
What a pity you are so “slow on the uptake” Shane !
I have currently PHEV and most likely will jump to BEV. I bought PHEV 1.5 years ago as BEVs had (and still have) a bit too many limitations from my point of view. But we have Audi Quattro Avant (=my wife's car) which we can use for longer trips, towing etc. so I should be able to tolerate downsides of BEV in my car and use Audi when BEV is not good.
Also PHEV also 'educated' me that generally EV is pretty good path forward, while current cars still have a bit too may downsides.
Also I think that all new petrol/diesel cars should be hybrids and gradually (probably quite fast) things will shift to EVs. Having hybrids in between will ease up limited supply of batteries and will very fast reduce pollution.
@@mho0 if you are conscientious enough to charge your PHEV daily then you'll find a BEV way less hassle!
@@Hyfly13 I think you are right.
@@mho0 You make some fair points, but we recently had "Hybrid Gate" where it turned out PHEV's pollute far more the manufacturers claimed. And the reason really is simple, but difficult to solve. Combustion engine cars are very dirty and polluting until the CAT has a chance to heat up and burn off the pollution, extra petrol that doesn't get burned, particulates, etc.
In a PHEV, the engine kicks in for seconds or barely a minute or two at time. So, it really never gets the CAT up to operating temperature, which means the car engine runs in the cold fully polluting mode pretty much the entire time.
As the video makes a point of, most people transition to electric cars through Hybrids. They go combustion, hybrid, plug in hybrid, BEV, or combustion, hybrid, BEV.
So, their usefulness appear to be mostly just as a hand holding device to get people to full BEV's. After a year or two with PHEV, most people start wondering why they are hauling around this large engine and transmission they really never use. Add in the far better performance of BEV's and they end of losing the combustion engine.
To be honest, I already own a BEV with over 350km of range on full battery and I LOVE it, but I am considering changing to a PHEV only because of limits on longer trips! Range anxiety, all the calculations of routes and stops and finding a fast charger, and a charger at the destination and and and... yes it is getting much better, but it is still just too much hustle!
Then you need a 500km one or more. Yes change of use behaviour is necessary. We can't have our cake and eat it too.
That too is a concern for me. Every summer I liked going to the mountains, but it is VERY rural. I've also heard of inadequate recharging sites and congestion almost anywhere. Besides, most electricity is still generated from coal, gas or petroleum anyway.
I replaced my Prius with a Rav4, both hybrids but now I have headroom for my mattress in the back ... and a motorized back gate so I can easily enter/exit rather than crawl through. Downside for larger size is less MPG, but still better than ICE only.
I view HYBRID as better than ICE of course but the better answer until the world can handle a billion BEVs.
The Coffee Loop: For customers, it's GOOD to have choices. In time, BEV's and batteries will get better and cheaper, and it will become a no-brainer, as you can get something like 500 mile range for a reasonable price AND charging stations will be ubiguitous. In the mean time, during the transition stage, which will last decades, it's great to have choices. Driving a PHEV is MUCH better than driving a pure ICE, re the environment.
@@markamanns5145: First, VERY little electricity is generated from burning oil. Second, more and more electricity is generated from clean sources each year, and from natural gas instead of coal, which is much cleaner than coal.
If you want to drive hybrid -- dandy. But don't spread the usual denier falsehoods about the electric system to justify it -- it's bad enough with people that lie for a political agenda. (Not saying you're lying, but you're wrong re the electricity. Don't take my word for it -- the data is all over the internet on reliable sites like the EIA, the IEA, government energy sites, etc.
@@markamanns5145 Just well the "Authorities" have twigged that BEV technology is a dead end.
It's the charging time anxiety, range anxiety and "the finding of a charger" anxiety.
There's no way UK can provide enough electrical energy to keep up with recharging vehicles what with the legislation requiring the reduction of fossil fuels for heating and cooking.
You'll have noticed the increased references to Hydrogen fuel ... and the waning enthusiasm from Boris on "his" massive battery construction projects.
Plus the growing confidence in HVO fuels. Vegetable based fuel with nary a fossil to be seen.
If, as is becoming clearer (!) by the day, HVO burns more cleanly then the wording of getting rid of "fossil fuels" allows for the use of "compression ignition" engines anyway.
HGVs have been running on HVO for over two years and there appears to no pollution issues as yet.
The fact that an electric connoisseur thinks 250-300 miles is a long way is what keeps me from getting an electric vehicle
Loving this conversational format.
Great to hear! We may mix a few more into the schedule
I agree. I would love to see a more of them mixed in with the regular content
Saaaame, Robert’s personality
I'm really disappointed you didn't mention towing a heavy caravan or horsebox with a PHEV. I don't think n that fully electric cars are able to provide a good enough towing range yet. I drive 10-20 miles a day on average, then 1 a month a so I tow a 1500kg caravan, would love to hear some advice on what would be a good vehicle for this scenario. Currently I have a 2L diesel for the caravan and long trips and a Smart EQ for daily trips, but would be great to back to one vehicle
I would dearly love to own a full EV but, for my average usage, they are not cost effective. When I returned to live in the UK in 2016, I bought a pre-owned 62 plate Yaris Hybrid which I adore. I don't have to pay Road Tax, my insurance is very reasonable and I get about 62 MPG. Because most of my journeys are local with an occasional long distance drive to 'the big smoke' to see my family, I've only reached about 36k on the odometer. It is economical, quiet and a delight to drive. (And yes, Robert, I only fill up once every 6-9 months and I've never had any problems with 'stale' petrol!)
I've looked at the economics of owning a secondhand EV but the figures don't stand up. At present, a pre-owned Zoe or E-up (the equivalent to a Yaris Hybrid) is just so damned expensive and, although a Nissan Leaf or Vauxhall might be relatively less expense, I don't need anything that big. So I've decided to hang on to the Yaris Hybrid and run it into the ground, although its reliability might mean this will take decades. I suppose the only 'crunch factor' will be if HMG decide that my hybrid should incur Road Tax!
As someone looking for a small/medium-sized used car, I have literally never even see any hybrids whatsoever within 100 miles of me and within my (relatively limited, but still not absolutely tiny) budget. So I'll have to make do with an ICE until the used and/or the new electric ones get cheap enough for me to afford. Which is a shame, because I'd love to be a bit greener
The best car to drive is the one you currently own. By the time you drive it into the ground, electric will be a no-brainer.
I love you and Jack just having a conversation like this, the scripted stuff is great but I like the organic feel!
It is scripted.
@@Supernaut2000 The intro probably was but I very much doubt if the rest of it was, they talk over each other too often for it to be scripted.
@@cbcdesign001 it's a blend.
They have a generalized script with main points etc.
They are using viewers questions so they have worked out their answers, but sure, the conversation is unscripted. If that makes sense.
I've worked in TV. Some of the presenters are insanely professional.
They can even time their comment to fit a countdown that is happening in their earpiece, to the nearest second or two. Live!
I think the dynamics were far better with Robert and Jonny Smith. A big part of Fully Charged was lost when he left.
I drove a Chevy Volt PHEV for 4 years and it was great. I got between 50 and 60 miles range on pure electric. My EV use of it alone was over 75% and I only had 2 oil changes since the ICE motor was only used when I was on a longer trip. It was the gateway drug though hence I now drive a Tesla. Very happy with it so far (one year)
I intend my next vehicle to be a second gen Volt. Volts are little different and are essentially an electric vehicle with a motor backup. I drive enough miles where the motor will get used frequently and it won't be too underused like many.
I used to own a Golf GTE. Lovely car, but no matter how little you used the engine, VW still made me come in every year for an oil change. That basically ruins most PHEVs economically speaking...
agreed completely, i have had 2 - 2nd gen volts 2016-2018 and 2018 to present, LOVE it. I have added gas 2 times per year, it is nice to have the back-up as needed for long drives
OK, but that Tesla with its huge battery is stopping ten others getting a Volt! Battery capacity is growing but it's still limited. Why just have it all sitting in your car unused most of the time when nine others could be using it all?
@@PILLOCK4 Well my Tesla isn't one with the really large batterys...I've got a Model Y SR which only has a 58kw battery compared to my gen 2 Volt which had an 18kw battery so it's not 10 others as the battery is only about 3 times the size
Glad to see some love for the i3 REx, ours is fantastic. Our battery does 55-60 miles at this time of year, but even so, we haven't used the petrol engine for months, but crucially it's there for long journeys where it's impractical to recharge 4 or 5 times. We simply fill up the tank and the battery, fill up a 10 litre jerrycan, do 140 miles, then recharge the battery and refill the tank at the same time. Easy peasy!
Great car , Im looking at a late rex or an ID3 as I regularly drive 600 miles with a ferry crossing in the middle and I don't want to miss the ferry because a charger is broken. Rex is a great solution.
PHEV (if it has ~50 miles of range) is still extremely important during this transition period, at least in America, for years yet for the 10's of millions of people that can't charge at home or work. Apartments/condos, street only parking, etc. If their gasoline usage drops 80% that is still a win for the short term. Once there is level 2 (240v) charging just about everywhere we park running errands we can always be topped off and then full electric is possible for everyone. But that's a long way out in the US. My kids can't get BEV because their 20's will be all apartment living with nowhere to charge.
If you can't charge a BEV how are you going to charge a PHEV?
@@NickFoster plugging in phev at a destination, like a mall or restaurant lot means toy can top off or charge a small battery without DCFC, and come back to a charged car to get home, granted you can do that with a BEV, but you won't be able to fill a battery without a driveway. also when going long distances, in our area and use, that is common, our ID4 worked but i was hunting to be able to max range. some trips required a long break and overnight driving makes that much harder
@@saeedhossain6099 Its beacause only Tesla at the moment has the required and reliable fast charging infrastructure. With their long range version cars long trips are barely longer than with gasoline cars and more often than not the driver is the limiting factor. The other infrastructures really need to catch up in terms of charging speed and reliabilty. Luckily Tesla is slowly opening its advanced and reliable chargers to other brands, but the cars also need to get a bit better on sustained charging speeds.
@@NickFoster Hmm, surely the clue is in the classification ...
@@geiers6013 In most of the US even Tesla doesn't have the necessary infrastructure yet. You often have to base your itinerary around the charging stations. Granted, in reality this is only like 5% of your driving, but that can be a deal breaker.
With all respect, I am driving a 2013 Plug-in Prius, bought 2nd hand, coming from a Diesel Estate. I can charge at home, and every first 20 km’s is fully electric, which is most city kilometers. We currently drive around 20-25% full electric, and weekly I need to drive at least 200 km on the motorway.
I have a very good fuel economy, maintenance cost is low, and it will bridge me to when affordable 2nd hand EV’s become available.
This. They've forgotten the most sensible option for people who still cannot afford a BEV. Not gas or HEV or PHEV but any kind of 2nd hand good hybrid you can find. Don't eat the full depreciation of a new car which is going to be obsolete in 5 years.
Absolutely agree! I just bought a 2013 plugin Prius myself last week, and so far I love it. Fuel consumption so far has been phenomenally low, and if it's as reliable as my previous gen2 regular hybrid, maintenance should be good too.
Totally, I think a PHEV makes way more sense, and I think for most people it would end up being better for the environment too, since it doesn’t have the crazy embodied emissions of an BEV
@@charliebrackenbury6115
That embodied emission isn't crazy. Especially if the battery is made outside of China. Also, as the grid is getting greener, the CO2 cost of manufacturing will keep dropping.
@@andrasbiro3007 yeah, I know it’s getting better, still though, even just the mining of the rare earth metals necessary to make the cells has a huge impact compared to the metal needed to make an ICE, the nice part of a PHEV is that you can have batteries for your day to day range and then on occasion use the ICE for long distances, that way you aren’t lugging around hundreds of pounds of energy intensive batteries for the couple of times you exceed the range
Totally missed the point that people who do a few very long journeys but most of the time commute less than 30m a day with the current terrible charging network in the UK would find a PHEV really good.
I'm not sure you can call the UK charging network really terrible for a few long journeys, most Motorway service stations now have excellent Gridserve chargers. It all depends on where those long journeys take them.
@@ianmurray250 no most of the changes don't work. We have to keep reseting them. And they keep going off line. We have a long way to go yet. Also ,most electric cars have 100miles less than they claim when you treat them like normal cars by driving them in winter and turning electric things on in the car.
@@chrishart8548 Not what I have found with chargers recently and my Kona has a 240 minimum range, vice 287 (or 278 I can't remember) if I am really heavy with the throttle and don't give a dam. Over 300 with sunny weather and air con.
@@ianmurray250 i have used the chargers on long trips regularly and they are hopeless and getting worse, as electric car numbers increase at a greater rate than the chargers. You can't rely on them, full stop !
If your long journeys aren't regular, then you're fine with a BEV too. It's a bit of a paradox. If you're going on a lot of long journeys, the benefit of a hybrid isn't great. If you're doing it rarely, then the benefits don't really matter.
With this episode I was glad to see your channel at least try to deal with an inconvenient truth. That for the average non-wealthy driver that needs a car for commuting a PHEV makes much more sense than full BEV. The reason is simple: they are much cheaper. I own a VOLT that I use to commute 30 miles per day with. I drive fully electric about 95% of the time. It cost me half of what a Tesla would and was what I could afford. This is a litmus test really. If your channel is truly interested in decarbonizing auto transportation you would embrace this inconvenient truth and stop pretending that you miss the point. Until we get the $25K BEV (something only the chinese seem to be interested in) we will get nowhere in popularizing greener transportation.
Totally agreed.
Agree.
Same here, I rented a Tesla Model 3 for 36 hours and then bought a 2019 Chevy Volt...an awesome machine for commuting and hauling crap. Hatchbacks are my favorite type of car, and with the seats down it has a tremendous amount of cargo space. I have been driving a Toyota Corolla the past 3 weeks while on assignment for work and I am HUGELY disappointed in it's driveability, performance, and environmental systems. The 2021 Corolla takes FOREVER to get heat, and then it's still never very warm. The front defroster is absolute crap, it can't keep up with freezing rain. I cannot wait to get back into my Volt. I drive 60% on electric over it's lifetime. I feel like I have the best of both worlds. Electricity costs are going to continue to climb so there will not be a cost savings driving electric.
I've found that the idea of buying an EV is great if you have the money to do so. A lot of people could really use something that is economical to run and is low maintenance, but the high up front cost leave them having to purchase a used ICE car as that is all they can afford.
I disagree with the PHEV hate. PHEV are extremely important, gateway drug to full electric.
Many people like myself can't charge at home but can in a limited number of places. I'd happily start with a PHEV.
They "were" but they're "not"
The average man in the street doesn’t find it easy to go full EV ! Surely the likes of a Toyota hybrid Cross over ‘ Isn’t too bad to start off with 🤷🏼♂️ 🇬🇧
I have a PHEW and love it. Most weekly running around is all electric. But, I drive a trip of about 500 miles through the desert every couple of months. MOST EVs don't have that range and I don't want to start looking for a charging station in the middle of nowhere!
The negatively towards hybrids in this video show ignorance to the fact that it everyone lives in the type of residence as the the hosts of this podcast. The infrastructure to EVs is not there yet. When charging becomes available as plentiful as gas stations, then it may be time to switch. BEVs are certainly for tomorrow, but Hybrids and PHEVs are for today.
@@davidc8937 or indeed can afford an EV that would work for the sort of use we need. The second hand Outlander PHEV we have will do 20 miles of EV (home charged), do the 50 mile commute and tow the caravan. We'd currently have to pay a huge amount for an EV that would tow our caravan! No way we could dream of affording a £50k EV even on a lease
I so relate to this. I’ve always been interested in cars. And so it was natural that I read and researched the technologies over the years. This year my wife and I were in the market for a new car (after not having one for 3 years after moving to Denmark). And we bounced back and forth between PHEV and EV. And I spent nights evaluating, until one day, we just decided, let’s take the plunge. “Let’s buy an EV”, we said. For all it’s pros and all it’s cons. It’s THE way forward. And now we’re waiting delivery of our new Polestar 2. Shout out to Bobby L because his review of that car, and calling it close to the best he’s driven was one of the things that pushed me to take the plunge! Well done!
@iscadean3607MY22? Same here! Love it!
While I appreciate your take on the drawbacks of PHEVs I couldn't disagree more. Since I only have one car, I need a car ready to go when I need it, whether it's charged or not. I drive a Volvo XC60 Recharge with a 40 mile range. 95% of my driving is EV when I'm home. BUT I regularly go on 1000 mile roadtrips. 8 hrs on the road in a day is enough without waiting for the battery to recharge. When I stay with friends, they never have an outlet close enough to plug in. When I head to the mountains in the summer, there isn't a public charging station within 40 miles and I park in a public lot so can't plug in. I'd love to drive an EV but they just won't work for me yet. Hopefully, sometime in the near future, EVs will have longer ranges and there will be public chargers in more remote areas. Oh, and my fuel won't get stale. If I go too far without using any gas, the combustion engine will kick on for a minute or two every now and then.
This comment right here nails it.
Well, I also do long trips - every week once or twice. I have a MG4 which has good range and charges to 80% in 20 mins (if you pick a high rate charge point). I also destination charge when I arrive. So, I charge while stopping for a coffee and a pee, and while doing work, then drive back starting with a full charge. I think this comment is understandable but doesn't recognise the improvements in EV range and the massively improved charger network
Oh and the point made in the video about maintenance costs shouldn't be underestimated. I've spent virtually nothing in 4 years and 70k EV travel (we now have 2 - I kept the first one). The tyres didn't wear out faster than my previous diesel SUV - I changed them at 45,000 miles just because the rainy season was coming. They were still legal
@@tonychallinor6721 The fast-charging network has certainly improved in the past few years, but it's still very incomplete. In many areas around the world road tripping can't be done in an EV at all, unless it's a top-of-the-line car. PHEVs allow people to plug-in at a much more affordable price point without sacrificing road-trip-ability.
@@tonychallinor6721 I mean clearly you don't go to the same places this person does. I more or less share their experience. There's rarely electrical outlets at e.g. mountains, beaches, really anywhere you actually want to be on a road trip, and in general destination charging just doesn't work for many destinations.
I contacted Toyota and they told me that their hybrid drives on the battery 80% of the time. These dirgusting liars really claimed they invented the perpetuum mobile.
80% of the TIME means if u are sitting in City at a red line it counds as electric time !.. so in city they numbers are correct because u stop very often and in slow traffic it goes EV... They mean 80% of time not 80% of distance :D
I drive a 2 litre Corolla hybrid estate. The brochure claims it drives on electric 50% of the time. From my experience over the last year I'd say that's about right. Between 55 to 63 mpg without trying hard. Astonishingly roomy inside, better than the average SUV. Top drawer reliability. Next step, a Toyota BEV I guess
My Toyota Auris Hybrid is standing still for 98% of the time. Can't beat that for fuel efficiency!
But seriously: It really never drives fully electric in normal traffic. Only in slow moving traffic, it might do a few kilometers full electric. As soon as you touch the throttle, the petrol engine kicks in. But the electric engine is always supporting in the background, so in the end it is 1,5 to 2 times more fuel efficient than a comparable ICE-only car.
@@Gooikes in the city ! and not on the Highway or urban roads... And as soon as you want to drive a bit sporty the gas consumption is like a ICE car because even for starts in the city the electric motor can only start slow and not fast
Toyotas "self driving hybrid" ads are banned in some countries, purely because they are misleading.
For me as a petrolhead the BMW 330e was the perfect exit drug. I got 330i performance, absence of range anxiety, a very sophisticated integration of the electric motor into the drivetrain and I managed to achieve 80 mpg and 4.5 mi/kWh on average driving roughly 2/3 in electric mode.
But as you said, that PHEV was my first and my last of its kind and now I´m driving an i3s BEV.
I also bought the 330e but a year ago when not many BEVs took my fancy. Charging infrastructure was not brilliant for my trips to see family 450 miles away. My trips are mainly 37 mile round trips three times a week and for the 17 months it has done 11,200 miles and at least 9500 were on battery. My mind is now made up and the BMW i4 40 Sport is on order due June’ish. There is strong demand for the 330e so great trade price. A good experience and EV education.
@@douglaswares8296 Mine was an F30, so only 12 to 18 mile pure electric range from 5.7 kWh gross battery size. Yet with charging every night I was able to cover most of my daily driving on electric power alone. I4 40 sounds great, but the new 4-series is a bit too big for my taste and my needs.
@@klausm5460 ideal size for me. Fits the golf clubs and the golf trolley nicely 😄
@@douglaswares8296 Kudos to you for choosing classic BMW proportions and not going for the X cars then...
@@klausm5460 I posted my own comment 30 minutes after you... my thoughts are the same as yours, except that I could live with the i4 40, but can't afford it! :o(
The most outstanding feature of the Prius, and the least understood, is it's transmission. There are no belts, no clutches and it still offers 100% variable ratio.
I think there may be a clutch plate
I still find myself correcting people about that. They all think that Toyota's eCVT is like the belt drive used in mopeds 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@alexdhutanu Yes, there is a kind of clutch plate but it has no actuating mechanism. I think it is there just to dampen any shock loads.
There is also NO physical changing of gears in any way. It is as mechanically unchanging and bulletproof a system as a differential. The variable effective gear ration the ICE sees is entirely created by changing the speed of the electric motors, which are varied to create the illusion of having changed gears. In reality, the gears are in a fixed relationship in a planetary gear system, with the output of course being the wheel speed, and the two inputs being electric motor speed and the two inputs being electric motor speed and ICE speed.
From the US, I kinda laughed at the both interest and researched opinions that balk at the idea of a vehicle that takes advantage of the current fuel systems AND the current battery tech systems. Hybrids is what we need right now. Can you imagine where everyone used 50%-60% less gas and way less pollution, in an affordable package (compared to long range EV)? Plug ins have the best of both worlds, and the worst. They are between ICE and EV in every category. They are indeed not a transitional tech, but a blended class of itself. Hybrid systems have been used on trains and passenger buses successfully. The thing is, the dream infrastructure for EV's is still decades into transitioning everyone, and never happen due to how our transport systems work anyway. The idea that hybrids are "old tech" is funny, because ev's have been around as long as ICE. Hybrids are the newest form of powertrain. And no, plug-ins dont really have range issues. The Chevy Volt, for example, has 40-70 miles, depending on the model, full electric which is more than enough for daily driving, and over 400 mile range, which you cannot get in a lot of ICE cars, and you have to sell a kidney to get in EV's, and it cost way less than anything but the budget short range EV's that are pure commuter vehicles. Imagine driving an EV, which is far more pollutive to produce than an ICE car, and think pretentiously that its superior to other technology. EV's are awesome, but their only an option, not a solution.
Guys, I disagree: there is no problem with a PHEV. In fact for some, especially those who need only one car for city and long range drives (occasionally), the PHEV is the best of both worlds. Here in Ireland, especially in the West, the charging infrastructure is crap. I’m not going to have to run two cars or worse one that cannot meet my requirements
2018 Hyundai Ioniq PHEV to minimize gas usage on local errands, 60-63 mpg on long trips, deviations, no place to plug has been a perfect vehicle for our purposes.
If the charging infrastructure is crap, how do you P your HEV? In that scenario, wouldn't a full or mild hybrid make more sense? Genuinely asking
I have no fossils since 2019. I drive 40.000-50.000km a year. I got no range anxiety. Electricity is everywhere. Gas stations are dying out around here.
@@JackScarlett1 Our gas stations are around 20-50 kilometers apart and close at 8 in the evening. And what then? When you are stranded in the middle of nowhere?
Ditto for Idaho, USA.
For me Hybrid was a great option moving from petrol just to test out the waters, to see if i enjoy it. And i dont have to dive straight in to thinking and stressing about charging and all that right away.
So it was a great steeping stone. I went from BMW E92 to a Audi A3 e-tron (hybrid). And now im driving a Tesla Model 3 :)
So i would actually recommend if you are not sure about EVs to get yourself a Hybrid first and see if you like it and also to see how everything works with charging and stuff.
And cuz its a Hybrid you dont have to stress about charging. And when you get used to it then hope over to a pure EV.
So if you are not sure, its a great in the middle option IMO of course.
Can't really argue with that. What I would say is that it's quite a costly stepping stone. There are so many services out there now that enable you to rent an EV for a month or two to see whether you can make it work or not. I wonder, if you'd had the chance to test out a Tesla straight out of your BMW, whether you'd have decided to go full 'leccy right away
I often wonder if most PHEV owners actually bother to plug the car in most of the time. With a BEV plugging in is just habitual and if you forgot then you could not drive it whereas to a PHEV owner plugging in might just seem a bit of a hassle.
Dealerships love Hybids because they keep you hooked on routine maintenance. Dealerships like selling you those expensive maintenance plans that ICE vehicles require because an ICE vehicle will need a lot more maintenance. They are also much more likely to need parts. Many ICE owners may want upgraded or performance parts, something EV's don't need. Dealers make a lot of money off of this and is a big reason traditional dealerships don't want to sell fully electric vehicles. Indeed, most of the profits a dealership makes are from the sales of parts and services for gasoline and diesel vehicles, profits from the sales of new vehicles alone won't keep the lights on. Once an new EV leaves the dealership it may never go back. I'm not responsible for a dealerships career choice. Kick all forms of the ICE habit. With the typical new EV getting between 250 and 350 miles per charge and long range EV's getting 400 miles or more (Lucid and Tesla are both offering models capable of 520 miles for their longest range versions), why mess with an internal combustion engine unless you absolutely have to. If you need a truck and frequently need to go more than 300 miles then get an ICE pickup. If you're a traveling salesman or other career field that keeps you on the road most of the time then get an ICE vehicle. For everyone an EV can't be beat for convenience. No hours wasted sitting in customer lounges waiting for oil changes or other routine maintenance. No having to stop at gas stations, especially uncomfortable on those nasty below freezing winter mornings. Only 2 seconds of your day required to refuel, one second to plug it in before going to bed and one second to unplug it in the morning (if your EV gets 350 miles or more per charge you'll likely only need to do this once a week). Full tank every morning, warmed and defrosted before opening your garage door or leaving your driveway.
@@JackScarlett1 Great episode and info on hybrids, I'm just curious do you own a car and if so is it a BEV?
Hybrid is still a great option even today, it offers way more capabilities than a BEV, you can easily bring your hybrid car overlanding or camping where an EV will never go, there are tons of plus with hybrids.