SUBSCRIBE, LIKE & SHARE if you want Clean Energy & Electric Vehicles to be the norm. Battery swapping is the perfect solution for keeping first generation EVs like the Nissan Leaf on the road and giving them a new lease of life. Robert heads to Cheltenham to visit Cleevely Electric Vehicles who have partnered with Muxsan in Holland to offer this brilliant battery swapping service. As battery technology has greatly advanced in the 10 years since the launch of the Leaf, updating with a larger, newer battery from crash damaged cars increases both the range and lifespan of the car. Cleevely EV - www.cleevelyev.co.uk/ Muxsan - muxsan.com/English/index.html Make sure you are subscribed then enter 'The Great EV Giveaway' for your chance to win an EV for a year and lots of other fantastic prizes fullycharged.show/EV-Giveaway/ Fully Charged is 100% independent thanks to RUclips Memberships and Patreons. Without you this channel wouldn’t be possible! If you’d like to help support the Fully Charged channel and its mission: Become a Patreon: www.patreon.com/FullyChargedShow Become a RUclips member: use JOIN button above Subscribe to Fully Charged & the Fully Charged PLUS channels Buy the Fully Charged Guide to Electric Vehicles & Clean Energy : buff.ly/2GybGt0 Browse the Fully Charged store: shop.fullycharged.show/ Visit our LIVE exhibitions in the UK, USA & Europe: FullyCharged.Show/events Subscribe for episode alerts and the Fully Charged newsletter: fullycharged.show/zap-sign-up/ Visit: FullyCharged.Show Find us on Twitter: twitter.com/fullychargedshw Follow us on Instagram: instagram.com/fullychargedshow Timestamps: 0:00 Introduction 1:47 Battery swap service 2:44 Not so simple 3:19 Gen 1 Leafs 4:16 2nd lease of life 4:39 Replace & reuse 5:45 Range increase 6:58 How long does it take? 7:53 Same pack size 9:07 Coded communications 10:20 Huge difference 11:05 No battery waste 11:49 Costs 13:22 Future batteries 14:04 Adapt to the market 14:18 Keeping EVs on the road 15:01 Subscribe, support & join
I heard on another RUclips channel (Linus Tech Tips?), that having lots of subscribers who don't watch your videos, is actually downgrading as far as the YT algorithm is concerned.
Not the best date to release on April fools day with all those videos popping up today where you have to ask yourself if it is true or not. But the topic itself deserves attention ... and maybe the EU will force the car manufacturers for a standardized BATTERY - CAR connection like the USB standard charger on cell phones The manufacturers will start to complain, but if it will hurt it will be better for the society.
Not sure how my liking or subscribing is going to help Clean Energy and Electric vehicles to be the norm. As I understand it, that's going to happen anyway. Can't happen soon enough.
@@boggisthecat Having used CANopen in Industrial applications, the battery pack is just one of the nodes on the network and be described with an EDS file. I would expect the EDS file would have to be edited with the parameters of the replacement pack, but retain the serial number off the old pack so the BMS recognises it. Nissan, as you say, may have it's own proprietary protocol.
@@boggisthecat That's a thing we as consumers can decide. If a car is purchased, it's not hire purchased. I know companies like Tesla are having a hard time to understand that concept, but that doesn't mean we as consumers should just accept what they want.
@@boggisthecat Exactly, which is why it's so important we have the right to repair. Otherwise, useful stuff like this that gives extra utility to second-hand goods could be illegal or impossible.
100%. Sure in warranty you probably don't want to muck about, but outside of that it's yours to destroy or improve as you see fit since the OEM isn't going to help for free anyway. Wrench & code every day guys!
They did offer the guy in Australia a replacement battery for only $xx,xxx AU. For a car valued at about a small percentage of the cost of the battery... Just because the battery got roasted by high local temperatures. The Leaf sees the same sort of failures in the US... all because they failed to design in cooling for the battery. Bad design and implementation.
"An absolute godsend for some early leaf owners. " provided you can source batteries in your country because the cost of shipping a 2nd hand "dangerous lithium ion " half way around the world is prohibitive.
They do, for the right amount of money. In my country, a Nissan Leaf owner wanted to replace the batteries and Nissan asked for 30.000 euros. This was in 2019. Car manufactures will do anything to convince you to buy a petrol car.
@@pnvgordinho In Australia, they simply dumped a number like $50,000 on the guy the day after it went out of warranty. For a car that didn't even sell for that new? Totally ridiculous. I believe that the courts there (in combination with the AU requirement that the car has to be serviceable for more than 3 years) got that tweaked. Here? I saw a few leafs that were only getting a simple commute in before the battery was empty. Again, go for the big bucks to replace the batteries. (You MUST cool the battery when it is over 90 F during the summer. Otherwise the batteries die from damage caused by overheating.) All the legit EV folks do cool the batteries.. as well as heat them during the winter. (Plugging in to a 110 volt output will just keep your battery warm in a tesla...)
@@Billblom That's a big no-no here in Holland. We're way too frugal for such nonsense. It also helps the government is promoting a second-hand EV market, because the Dutch government knows you can't replace the fossil fuel car market with EV without a proper 2nd hand market.
@@bertram-raven Nope. If the battery is burning, they will control the fire. But in most cases, it's not the battery that burns, so they will just extuingish the fire.
My father has had his first gen LEAF done by them earlier this year - he is delighted, with the result and with the door to door service he received - he would totally recommend it.
Agreed, it's a smart move. These kinds of swaps will become common ground and while it might cost them at this point to do the research for the relatively few early adopters, it might pay off massively in the future.
Equal credit is deserved imo (and I'm an EV engineer whose taken many battery packs apart), it takes leaders like Cleevelys to make the effort to retrain and retool to make this possible and hence prove the business model to other dealers, Muxan's tech does nothing without early adopters.
@@johnsavage6628 You are a bit off. Until you reach the point where a battery swap is necessary, you will already have pulled a lot of use out of the car. Imagine all the repairs and service that could be avoided in the meantime. We just decided to bzy a used eNV200 Evalia instead of the Diesel one and it was almost the same price, with the car in better condition and the battery still fine.
Congrats Cleevely Electric, you are adapting your business to your future customers, that is the way business keep existing, adapting to a new technologies and time, well done 👍😀👏👍😀👏
This is so important. As a 2016 leaf owner, this is very exciting. the right to repair is crucial for sustainable evs. Although the cost is pretty expensive - it needs to be significantlycheaper that buying a new hatchback.
Good to have guys like these in your town. Fortunately, almost every serious handyman can swap the battery nowadays with plenty of video walkthroughs available, and connectors and adaptors sold on the Internet.
Great episode Robert. Recycling and Reuse is as important as electrification. We need to make the single use mindset redundant.We all need to make do with less a lot less. If we are to mend our environemt...
That's why I don't the point of Robert saying that in future, the battery will outlast the car. When every EV will recharge 300 km in less than 30 minutes, no need to change the car for the next 20 years. The only thing that will improve after that will be automatic driving, and if you don't need it, don't change the car!
@@pbyfr I believe he's talking about the usual car degregation stuff - rusty bodywork, etc. The ICE in my Honda would outlast the body's life by at least three times I reckon! My initial plan was "to run it until it stops, then but an EV", but it's clear it's going to be a pile of brown flakes before the mechanicals give out.
@@jakethadley My 2000 Corolla is still fine, but I barely used last year. But it is a Japanese made car, the quality is better than others. I have more than 220 000 km on it, and I may have used it more if I didn't bought an EV (manual transmission is a pain in traffic jam, E-pedal is the best thing of EV). My 2.5 years old Leaf may indeed not be of the same quality (I had some minor issues with the windows). I will see how it age.
@@malawidick Don't be fooled into thinking we are not ruining our environment. Expecting that our current, Turbo Capitalist societies can continue unabated. At the expense of our environment is pure fantasy. Most people accept the premise that it can't continue. Unless your an Ayn Rand acolyte of course...
Agree - with improvements in battery chemistry energy density will increase. There'll also be "Tesla" quality aftermarket batteries for cheaper EVs.Also, s/ware improvements will mean aftermarket faster charging options will be available. The same will occur with motors - a Zoe GT with Teslaesque performance!
Had my Leaf serviced at Matt's original workshop in 2018 , just took out my camping chair a sat there watching him... what a professional, and he gave me a great discount .
I'm so glad you've covered these guys finally. I've been raving about them and muxan for a while wondering why more people aren't finding this exciting haha
While I love the idea, as an EV specialist I'm always concerned when the battery has been involved in a crash. It can cause internal damage in the battery pack, which is unnoticable for a while. I've seen the main high voltage relay welded solid as a result of a collision (since the first thing most people do to avoid a collision is to brake hard, which activates recuperation.), causing the battery to always be active.
Interchangeable, compatible. Another piece of exciting news for the DIY community. Former petrolhead, when people wanted to upgrade performance, they would remove running gear off other vehicles, with fabrication and bespoke items. Imagine, having an EV vehicle, drive in, drive out with upgrades battery, battery charger, BMS. This is the future. To see engine tuners with their rolling roads adopting this innovation with EV. Thanks for sharing. Inspiring!
Yeah, and I've been waiting for the 2nd hand market for used packs :) Years ago I aquired a whole bunch of individual batteries to create my own battery solar storage, and it would have been SO MUCH EAISIER and QUICKER to pick up a used EV pack! This is cool.
The price is still the real issue but it is great that cars are being given more life rather than being scrapped. Demand for battery packs would still seem to be outstripping supply and until that issue is solved I can't see prices falling substantially.
@se fi Not sure if 50 years is very realistic. Ignoring issues like salt and corrosion, old cars eventually become a losing proposition as other parts degrade, anything from wiring to brake lines to A/C parts to seals and various other parts. To drive a very old car, one also has to accept an interior that will be falling apart or spring some money to fix it up. Carpets, seats, headliners, dash, etc gets pretty ratty after about 15 years in most cases along with paint, so all that would have to be addressed unless you want to drive something rather sad looking.
I love the look of the old Leaf. So unique with its funny bug eyes. I had a 30kwh one for three years and loved it. Would have kept it as a second car if it hadn't been so expensive to buy!
A good idea, but it will only be taken up by very few owners. Right now, at the bottom of the market a 2011 Leaf 24kWh with 30mi range showing on the GOM is worth £4,500 (Rob was being kind with 50mi: Maybe on a warm day, downhill with a tailwind) Add the £8500 battery cost to what you can sell the 2011 for and you're looking at a newer 2018 40kWh with 130mi showing on the GOM. The same result but now you're in a 7 year newer car.
This is why NIO has such an advantage. They do battery swapping right now, and when advancements are made to pack designs, they can get them immediately without any refitting issues. It’s a future proof way to tackle it.
Battery swapping can be done for most EVs, it's just a matter of time effort required unless there's some software-encrypted DRM block. Given the current material cost of a battery swap ($10k and above) the cost of labor isn't the big factor here. Gruber can already do Tesla battery repairs. NIO's battery swapping feature is nice, but not a game changer. Batteries are generally reliable components that can last many years.
But that's the point. The batteries can last for ages. NIOs model takes the ownership of the most expensive part of the car out of the equation. The battery is NIOs asset. But they've done that mainly to enable hot swapping for charging purposes rather than upgrades. Drive in and drive out in 5 mins with a full charge. That will become defunct as 350kW+ charger installs gather momentum. New Kia/hyundai 800v architecture can add 100miles in 4 mins, or 10-80% in 15mins....who needs the complication of a hotswap then.
@@ChrisBaileyMusic Agreed. Future fast charging advancements will make hot-swapping obsolete. Personally I see the battery lease model as nothing more than a gimmick, because why not lease the whole car? The only place where I see this happen is with jetliners, where the airline owns the aircraft but leases the engines (Rolls-Royce is a big pusher of this sales model) because airlines find it hard to maintain them, and would rather let the manufacturer handle maintenance support, and let them take the risk if something goes wrong.
@@Avantime that's all very well for something as complex as a jet engine. Batteries are less complex as assembled modules. No moving parts or fine physical tolerances. No chance of falling out of the sky if you get it wrong.... etc
@@ChrisBaileyMusic That's why I think no one's going to be interested. People will either buy the whole car, or lease the whole car. They're not going to buy half a car and lease the other half. Battery hot-swapping is only feasible with a corporate fleet of trucks where batteries are strategically placed on set routes, because they need to be on the road 24/7 in order to make money.
I swapped the battery a year ago in my 2012. Vent from 210 Gids to 465 at 100% SOC. It did get a second life twice as good as it's first 8 years. Will work for "generations" until it is down to 210 Gids again :-)
Brilliant information Robert - I recall sharing a speaker slot with you at the Malvern Innovation Show some years ago when we were both embarking on our EV journey with 1st Gen Nissan Leafs! We were amongst fellow EV pioneers! Looking forward to your 'swap progress' video. We are now driving our third Leaf (Gen2) and already considering a swap out after 6 yrs/50k miles) and will be in touch with Matt. Keep up the great work! Mike
£13,500 to upgrade an old Leaf with an old battery.... when u can buy a new MG for £19k with 7 yr warranty...u would need to be really in love with your Leaf!
Well it was 8,500 quid for the conversion shown to a 40kWh battery. I was wondering when they would get to the price. According to Musk, current EV battery cost is around $200 per kWh. LifePO4 cells cost about $450 for a kWh of cells as a comparison. So you can see $8k of cost in cells, then getting screwed over to the tune of 20% for VAT and we are up to $10k of pure cells. It's not an unreasonable price. The 13.5k price was for the biggest battery pack, a 62kWh I think, and again, the price is not unreasonable. That said, I bought a 2017 Chevrolet Bolt with 30k on the clock for about $15k, so probably under 12 grand in "your British pounds". It has a 230 mile range and is basically a new car and much better than a Leaf.
I can't wait to see where the aftermarket goes for battery upgrades. Would love to see companies making replacement packs for older electric cars as the battery tech improves.
Triple range? Woah! Geez, even if the 40 kwh battery degrades, 150 miles starting degrading down to 100 over time is still double the range and perfectly usable. We could see those first-generation Leafs on the road for 20 more years! Amazing!
But after an additional £8500 you still have a 10 year old car with 60-100k on the clock and a second hand battery! I don't get it. Please tell me what I'm missing...
@@sharpeside What you are missing is that it's an electric car. If you want to get it, stop looking at it like an ICE car. Change the battery once for £8500 then never pay for oil changes, transmissions, air filters, spark plugs, catalytic converters, etc. One-time expense, predicted life span of 10-20 more years with effectively £0 in maintenance fees, low and stable electricity [fuel] costs, low registration and insurance costs, low to no MOT costs, and on and on. It's a total flip from the typical way we are all used to looking at cars and their associated costs, that's why it is difficult to see.
@@justin_time ok, thanks. However, there are currently 105 Nissan leafs nationally that are a maximum of 7 years old, a maximum of 50k on the clock, at a maximum price of £8500
@@sharpeside Strange. In the US there are many Leafs available for ~£1500-2500. Many of those cheap deals are from areas that are very hot (California, Texas, etc) which caused the Nissian batteries to degrade much faster, leaving many in that price range with ~30 miles of range. Maybe they haven't degraded as fast in the UK because temperatures aren't as hot and so their values have remained higher. Many Nissan Leafs from areas with cooler temperatures in the US also haven't suffered from much degradation either. (If only Nissan had added thermal management [cooling+radiators], this problem of battery swaps wouldn't even exist.) It seems like you are still thinking in terms of total mileage ("on the clock"), but most old EV drivetrains have average projected lifespans of between 300,000-500,000 and new EV's closer to 1,000,000. Overall mileage isn't as important of a factor to consider when buying a used EV as it is with ICE cars. Range per charge is the new defining factor.
This is great. Have just bought a used 30KW Leaf and battery should be good for around 7 more years but I love the idea that when its past its best we could potentially keep the car and simply upgrade the battery.
I had my battery replaced in my 2012 Leaf in 2019. It was a new 24 KWH battery from Nissan. It cost me $8200. Hopefully, with the new chemistry, the new battery will last much longer.
It is unfortunate that desirable EVs have been built like disposable personal electronics (phones, laptops, countertop kitchen gadgets). By the time you need to do a major repair or cell retrofit, the new cars are so much sexier that you just want to but a new one. The mfgs knew this all along. ICE cars were most profitable when they could sell very cheap cars, that a new car junkie would replace every two years, and they could resell the 2 year old used car at a hearty markup too. I see ICE cars that are over 20 years old, and most are still using their original fuel system and drivetrain. Average ICE car makes 300,000 to 600,000 km in a life, where in 1960 it was 100,000 miles or 160,000km. I see very few ten year old EVs and most of them driven by pensioners that only need 20 mile range. An enclosed golf cart. I would hope after development of the Tesla 3 that EVs have grown up to not just be personal electronics that are discarded quickly in favor of the latest model, but even Tesla does seem to be following the iPhone model though of emotional crowd marketing.
Great video, really enjoyed it! I just got a 2012 Nissan Leaf with 30k miles, it is a dream car, but already the battery is at 70 SOH. I'm sure as the price oil skyrockets, more and more buyers will get interested in these amazing cars, and the battery swap shops will be sprouting up all over the USA (I'm in New York City). Keep up the good work!
I can predict something...If Trump is President again, he is promising to champion gas-powered vehicles, and talking about prohibiting further sales of EVs in this country. He is beholden to the Big Oil people...his next step will be to order the price of electricity to soar upwards, and the profits will somehow be shunted to his cronies! Therefor, I am nervously awaiting NOV 4th....a would love to purchase an EV right now...but you can see my point, right!
@@curbozerboomer1773Yeah, and the bad part is if he wins, then other leaders around the world will either follow his example (either willingly or otherwise) or risk being barred from the US (even worse, possibly be targeted by them either for sanctions or military operations).
@@MrMduchesne23 The Tesla battery packs last far longer, but this type of swap or upgrade would mostly apply to the Model S/X, as those packs were designed to be swapped in 90 seconds during the early design phase at battery swapping stations.
I hope that EVs can embrace battery modularity so that people can upgrade just the battery if they'd like to. No reason to replace a whole car if just the battery is worn. I'm hoping that once Toyota eventually comes around to EVs in 6 to 10 years or so that they'll do it.
This video reveals some of the problems of the ev's: 1. the manufacturers cannot support old cars with batteries and they expect the cars to be landfilled by the 9-10yrs mark so they will have very low resale value as they approach that mark. They will not even want to support old cars because they want to sell new cars. Since manufacturers have to provide spare parts only 8 years after a car goes out of production is too easy to avoid supporting old cars, just keep a model in production for only 2 years. 2. the much claimed fact that the batteries will have a much bigger capacity due to advances in technology is a myth. The new batteries are just slightly better than the old ones after 10 years of developement. They have 150% capacity but they are also larger and heavier as the man said, so, in fact, it's not such a big improvement, the energy density is only slightly better that 10 years ago.
@@crichtonjohn1187 My prediction is that capacity (range) won't matter much in the not too distant future. Once we've reached a decent range, charging speed will be the deciding factor. 3-500 km before you get to stretch your legs, fill up on drinks and snacks, and maybe even a toilet break, and 20 minutes later you're ready for another 3-400 km run (not that it's safe to drive for so long without a proper break).
We had our conversion done at Muxsan in Holland last year in February. This battery swap was a good decision. Since then we only had a few bugs that were solved in firmware updates. We were one of the first people on his list that got a 40 Kwh conversion so that was to expect. I can recommend this to everyone we can now drive 250 Km (around 155 miles) in summer, so that's pretty usable. I've sold our old Nissan leaf 24 Kwh pack for 2000 euro (1700 pounds-), so that can help to cover some of the conversion costs.
nice video. i have a 2015 Nissan Leaf. i just purchased a 2019 Chevy Bolt. now i have 250+ miles per charge. seriously, i'm glad i left that 60 mile range behind.
What a cool service that this company is providing! If I still had my Gen 1 LEAF, I would be wanting to get my battery swapped out by them. Alas, wrong continent for me.
OMG thats the guy from the other youtube channel I watch EV james and kate! This was ALWAYS THE POINT OF EV'S Was that you could replace the battery and the motor over and over and over and over. Then you can RECYCLE the ENTIRE CAR. That is the whole point, it always has been and this makes me so happy.
Would love to upgrade my 2012 Leaf to a 62kWh pack and add that 17.6kWh extender for the lols. Almost 80kWh would be more than my Model 3! Should be able to get 300 miles or 500km.
Battery swaps are definitely very important to keep older EV's going. Battery prices coming down will of course help. Cleevely are the place to go for electric car maintenence as there isn't alot of companies out there doing it at the moment and they are great at what they do. 👍
Its a relief to see this progress being made. We cant rely on the manufacturers as they can be obscenely costly and will slap customers with an "end of life" to get them to buy a new car
At that price I would definitely take the old pack and strip the cells, there is a good market in used cells, granted you would need to know what you are doing but there are plenty of videos showing how to remove the modules and test them, if you get them out you can get £100 per pack and there are 24 of them in the 24kw Leaf, lots of people using them for home storage projects and ev conversions.
I think the average pack value is about £5k for the 24kWh, even if its degraded. People use them for storage projects all the time. So £5k off the £8.5k price for a 40kWh upgrade makes it seem like excellent value to be honest. I can see why Clevely don't offer this "discount" directly though if they don't have a continuous flow of batteries out as well as in. They'd be sitting on money they couldn't access. But...I've been have discussions with a company here in South Wales that is able to repurpose 2nd life EV batteries for static storage. Maybe Clevely can link up with them for some throughput and then pass that saving onto the customer directly?
@@jankoodziej877 my understanding is they will keep it for convenience, but the customer is also welcome to take it. There is no mention of a difference in cost.
I love this. Reusing the battery and extending the use of the car reducing the need for new materials to be used and an extra revenue stream for their business.
It's like organ donation for EVs! Brilliant work. Still not cheap, but cheaper than buying a new EV, and if you love your car, giving it a new heart/pancreas/whatnot to extend its life is just the thing to do. Great to read about this. Glad Matt is finding uses for the old, degraded batteries, too! When Paul Hawken wrote Ecology of Commerce decades ago, this is the kind of thing I imagined coming of it: less, or even no, waste, and old tech getting upgraded instead of sent to landfills.
Agree with so many other comments. It would be great to see another company taking the packs and turning them into storage. I can see the pitch now. If you want to keep your pack we can turn it into a home storage system for £x.
@@AsekiBekovy yep. I treat mine very VERY badly on purpose as an ongoing test, so I ; -Always charge to 100% -Only plug in when the range is at - - -Have massive 225-55-18 tyres.
This is awesome! We need companies like this in the USA. I would like to upgrade my 2011 LEAF in future. So glad Nissan made the battery pack the same for all these years!
Have seen these guys over at the James & Kate EV channel, some very cool work they do! Really looking forward to seeing your upgraded Leaf too, Robert! :D
Yes, I'm surprised Robert didn't mention that they can replace a single failed module in a pack if that is all that is needed. Perhaps a video on that is coming.
Robert, I absolutely love the variety and choices of music that you and your team select to play in your videos, but they pale in comparison to the valuable information that you present in each episode.
Very cool. I always thought it would be great if you could do that with the Zoe because the car has been mechanically the same since the start. So I think the zoe battery attachment is the same as it has been. Meaning in Theory a 52 kwh battery could physically fit in a 1st year zoe. With the higher sales of the Zoe in Europe seems like a very logical car for this type of service. Then again a lot of those are with a rent battery.
Very often complete packs only need cells replacing in them, would have liked to have seen this video cover that as well because for many they just need new modules replacing (which we have seen clevely do James and Kates Channel) which is much much cheaper, already lots of teeth drying in the comments from Jeremey Clarkson fans with that I told you so looks on their faces, also dont forget when you swap out your battery pack you lose the warranty on it as well, thats worth mentioning because if you have a failing battery it might drop in to being able to be replaced under the original 8 year warranty. Its a great service but 8 grand is much too high, battery prices have fallen massively they need to understand that.
I shuddered at 8:49 seeing the laptop sort of balanced on the roof of the car. This is good and the right to repair is a good thing and extending the life and usability of the Leaf is a great thing. The cost of the pack is over 10 times the value of the car I brought 3 years ago at £700 and I have only spent £1000 on repairs + Z rated tyres since then, but it is petrol and I have only done 12,000 since I bought it. I am an evil person by using fast fossil fuel V6 car :) Thank you for sharing
Great to see old Leafs getting a new lease of life. It would be interesting to know how insurance companies in the UK handle EVs that have had their battery swapped. Here in NZ I have heard that some companies won't insure the cars because they have been modified, and those that will insure a modified car, won't insure the cars for the new value because in has increased in value.
Seems like there would be a market for a conversion kit for CHAdeMO to CCS. We know from the LEVC taxis that it's possible to have both on a vehicle,but no one else seems to do that.
I can't see a need for that yet. Most new rapid chargers in the UK still have CHAdeMO and CCS connectors. I don't know if its an issue in other countries.
Brilliant! Lots of damand here in Australia. We own a 2012 and 2019 Leaf. Recently purchased a battery pack from a 2012 to power a zero turn mower, and an off grid cabin.
To reiterate- unlike some Nissans, the 1st gen Leaf is an excellent and reliable car. Have a 2013SL and have had zero problems at all. Nothing. After 7 years, I replaced the 12V battery. Only because it was 7 years old. Love the surround cameras too.
I got to experiment with a Fiat 500 with a degraded battery pack. To me it became a fun little toy to do short little trips around town like a grown up PowerWheels. I really did enjoy it, I really never had range anxiety, because I didn't push it to be anything more than my daily driver. So degraded battery packs and older EVS may have a 2nd chance market for people with limited range commutes.
I was surprised at how expensive a second hand small capacity battery costs. I can see where all the money goes on a new electric car with a much bigger battery. No wonder they give a good warranty with the battery because you wouldn't want to replace it!
They rebuild the larger batteries. And Leaf batteries have a relatively short lifespan due to the air cooling. The water cooled batteries everyone else like Tesla uses will last far longer and degrade far less over time, typically 1-2% a year or so.
You may not need to fully replace it. Cleveleys also offer a battery refurbishment facility. They refurbed the battery on a 10 year old Leaf a while ago. The cost was £600. The video is on RUclips........
I've just had my 2012 leaf traction battery replaced by EVs Enhanced in Christchurch (New Zealand). I could only justify the cost of a replacement 24kw battery, but I could have put a 40kw or a 30kw, but I didn't. I went from a 60% health battery to a 85% battery, and the range was a huge change afterwards. I'll get another 6-8 years of use from the car for local use around town and that's all I really wanted.
A used Ioniq (or Leaf) is from about £18-20k. So let's say you get £4k for your Leaf, then that's £8.5k vs £14-16k. Assumibg you have the money available, you then have to judge whether the other benefits of having an Ioniq or a later generation Leaf is worth an extra £5.5-7.5k. It's nice to have the choice, and surely environmentally efficient to reuse cars and batteries.
@@gwarlow There was a used Ioniq on Autotrader for £13.2k for few weeks, that is gone, but I can see one now 17 reg for just under £14k. It is still a much better option than upgrading a 11/12 reg leaf for £8500!!!
@Ross Bourne I think the debt levels are high because people don't know how to do math. If you already have a leaf, you could spend £8500 to upgrade the battery, or sell the leaf, use the same £8500 and buy a better car. No extra money used.
RIGHT ON, 'RIGHT to REPAIR'. And Designing for Ease of Service, ALSO highly undervalued & underutilized by manufacturers! The Philosophy of 'Change Everything as FAST as POSSIBLE' and Build for Immediate Obsolescence' is the Norm. Build ONE CAR. With ONE CLASSIC, PLEASING Body style. Make it MODULAR, and Serviceable, low carbon footprint & cheap to RUN. No NEED to change it EVERY YEAR, incl. stupid styling 'cues', make it SIMPLE, not ever-more COMPLEX, sustainable as Possible, and also LIGHT & CHEAP, and you will have a Winning Car- AND Business Model!
They probably need to "hack" some activation scheme with individual keys. Really annoying, that the manufacturers seems to do everything they can to prevent independent garages, doing repairs on their cars. If this was as easy as unscrewing the battery pack, unplugging it, and then plug and install a new battery pack, it would be something that even ordinary people could do themselves. Newer cars are even worse from what i have seen. New cars have the battery pack as an integral part of the chassis frame in the bottom of the car. Probably somewhere between impossible and very very hard, to replace.
For me, the benefit here is that I can buy an older Leaf in the knowledge that there will be a fairly straightforward way to keep the car on the road way into the future. As the supply of good 2nd use batteries is squeezed by demand, there will be other cells retro fitted into the battery shell as some are already doing.
I'm wondering here if Nissan and even Tesla supports "Rights to Repair" options for owners. Looks like this guy has figured out a way to 'get around the system' but I'm not liking this setup at all. Car manufacturers need to make electric cars with a quick easy swap system. THEY CAN DO THIS...they just don't want to.
@@PhilipLon7 Such JERKS...plus the dealers know this as well. Maybe the first line of fixing this for us would be for 'them' to lose a sale right when they think they 'have one.'
Rich Rebuilds shows the hassle of repairing your own Tesla. I hope as EVs become common some manufacturers at least find ways to repair or recycle them.
this car is not being repaired, its being upgraded Im sure its trivial for a dealer to replace a battery in a Leaf with either a new or used one of the same size the issue here is the charger and the battery monitor system needs to be told the battery is bigger, so all the display functions work correctly.
![[#2024MAMA] BIGBANG (빅뱅) - 뱅뱅뱅 (BANG BANG BANG) + FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EQsYfiPR9uM/mqdefault.jpg)
SUBSCRIBE, LIKE & SHARE if you want Clean Energy & Electric Vehicles to be the norm.
Battery swapping is the perfect solution for keeping first generation EVs like the Nissan Leaf on the road and giving them a new lease of life.
Robert heads to Cheltenham to visit Cleevely Electric Vehicles who have partnered with Muxsan in Holland to offer this brilliant battery swapping service. As battery technology has greatly advanced in the 10 years since the launch of the Leaf, updating with a larger, newer battery from crash damaged cars increases both the range and lifespan of the car.
Cleevely EV - www.cleevelyev.co.uk/
Muxsan - muxsan.com/English/index.html
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Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
1:47 Battery swap service
2:44 Not so simple
3:19 Gen 1 Leafs
4:16 2nd lease of life
4:39 Replace & reuse
5:45 Range increase
6:58 How long does it take?
7:53 Same pack size
9:07 Coded communications
10:20 Huge difference
11:05 No battery waste
11:49 Costs
13:22 Future batteries
14:04 Adapt to the market
14:18 Keeping EVs on the road
15:01 Subscribe, support & join
You should make a youtube survey and ask people if they have subscribed to your channel for the giveaway. It brings in a bunch of new views.
I heard on another RUclips channel (Linus Tech Tips?), that having lots of subscribers who don't watch your videos, is actually downgrading as far as the YT algorithm is concerned.
Not the best date to release on April fools day with all those videos popping up today where you have to ask yourself if it is true or not. But the topic itself deserves attention ... and maybe the EU will force the car manufacturers for a
standardized BATTERY - CAR connection like the USB standard charger on cell phones
The manufacturers will start to complain, but if it will hurt it will be better for the society.
Not sure how my liking or subscribing is going to help Clean Energy and Electric vehicles to be the norm. As I understand it, that's going to happen anyway. Can't happen soon enough.
Turning over "A New Leaf on Life"..so to speak.
One more reason why Right to Repair is so important. 👍
This is a third party ‘hacking’ Nissan’s communications protocols. Not endorsed by Nissan. They would prefer to sell more cars.
@@boggisthecat Having used CANopen in Industrial applications, the battery pack is just one of the nodes on the network and be described with an EDS file. I would expect the EDS file would have to be edited with the parameters of the replacement pack, but retain the serial number off the old pack so the BMS recognises it. Nissan, as you say, may have it's own proprietary protocol.
@@boggisthecat That's a thing we as consumers can decide. If a car is purchased, it's not hire purchased. I know companies like Tesla are having a hard time to understand that concept, but that doesn't mean we as consumers should just accept what they want.
@@boggisthecat Exactly, which is why it's so important we have the right to repair. Otherwise, useful stuff like this that gives extra utility to second-hand goods could be illegal or impossible.
100%. Sure in warranty you probably don't want to muck about, but outside of that it's yours to destroy or improve as you see fit since the OEM isn't going to help for free anyway. Wrench & code every day guys!
An absolute godsend for some early leaf owners. A shame Nissan aren't exactly helping these early adopters.
They did offer the guy in Australia a replacement battery for only $xx,xxx AU. For a car valued at about a small percentage of the cost of the battery... Just because the battery got roasted by high local temperatures. The Leaf sees the same sort of failures in the US... all because they failed to design in cooling for the battery. Bad design and implementation.
"An absolute godsend for some early leaf owners. " provided you can source batteries in your country because the cost of shipping a 2nd hand "dangerous lithium ion " half way around the world is prohibitive.
They do, for the right amount of money. In my country, a Nissan Leaf owner wanted to replace the batteries and Nissan asked for 30.000 euros. This was in 2019.
Car manufactures will do anything to convince you to buy a petrol car.
@@pnvgordinho In Australia, they simply dumped a number like $50,000 on the guy the day after it went out of warranty. For a car that didn't even sell for that new? Totally ridiculous. I believe that the courts there (in combination with the AU requirement that the car has to be serviceable for more than 3 years) got that tweaked. Here? I saw a few leafs that were only getting a simple commute in before the battery was empty. Again, go for the big bucks to replace the batteries. (You MUST cool the battery when it is over 90 F during the summer. Otherwise the batteries die from damage caused by overheating.) All the legit EV folks do cool the batteries.. as well as heat them during the winter. (Plugging in to a 110 volt output will just keep your battery warm in a tesla...)
@@Billblom That's a big no-no here in Holland. We're way too frugal for such nonsense. It also helps the government is promoting a second-hand EV market, because the Dutch government knows you can't replace the fossil fuel car market with EV without a proper 2nd hand market.
Crash damaged. It adds a whole new meaning to 'Turning over a new Leaf.'
i see what you did there 😉 clever one !
Fireman sees a petrol spill after an accident: "Get me the foam!"
Fireman sees EV battery after an accident: "RUN AWAY!!!!!"
@@bertram-raven Nope. If the battery is burning, they will control the fire.
But in most cases, it's not the battery that burns, so they will just extuingish the fire.
@@bertram-raven only now, but in time the safety is getting decidedly better🙌
@@bertram-ravenno catl batteries dont burn
You could say they're getting a second "leaf" of life.
Go home James. You're drunk.
I'm glad you said James - because I was thinking it. Good one chap.
Thanks for falling on that sword, James.
More like a second chance at leaf.
Worst dad pun ever. I love it.
My father has had his first gen LEAF done by them earlier this year - he is delighted, with the result and with the door to door service he received - he would totally recommend it.
Muxan is a genius that made all this possible. The swapping isn't rocket Science it's the communication part and also the extenders they make.
The "gearheads" of the next decades are all going to either be hackers or have a hacker on call:)
Agreed, it's a smart move. These kinds of swaps will become common ground and while it might cost them at this point to do the research for the relatively few early adopters, it might pay off massively in the future.
Equal credit is deserved imo (and I'm an EV engineer whose taken many battery packs apart), it takes leaders like Cleevelys to make the effort to retrain and retool to make this possible and hence prove the business model to other dealers, Muxan's tech does nothing without early adopters.
$8500 for a used battery pack? Ouch! No thank electrics. I'll probably be dead, before electrics are affordable.
@@johnsavage6628 You are a bit off. Until you reach the point where a battery swap is necessary, you will already have pulled a lot of use out of the car. Imagine all the repairs and service that could be avoided in the meantime. We just decided to bzy a used eNV200 Evalia instead of the Diesel one and it was almost the same price, with the car in better condition and the battery still fine.
Congrats Cleevely Electric, you are adapting your business to your future customers, that is the way business keep existing, adapting to a new technologies and time, well done 👍😀👏👍😀👏
I don't generally comment, But this episode was spectacularly interesting. Thank you, so much , Keep up the good work, and looking forward to more .
This is so important. As a 2016 leaf owner, this is very exciting. the right to repair is crucial for sustainable evs. Although the cost is pretty expensive - it needs to be significantlycheaper that buying a new hatchback.
Well that’s a RE-LEAF 😁.... perfect!
Good to have guys like these in your town. Fortunately, almost every serious handyman can swap the battery nowadays with plenty of video walkthroughs available, and connectors and adaptors sold on the Internet.
Great episode Robert. Recycling and Reuse is as important as electrification. We need to make the single use mindset redundant.We all need to make do with less a lot less. If we are to mend our environemt...
That's why I don't the point of Robert saying that in future, the battery will outlast the car. When every EV will recharge 300 km in less than 30 minutes, no need to change the car for the next 20 years. The only thing that will improve after that will be automatic driving, and if you don't need it, don't change the car!
@@pbyfr I believe he's talking about the usual car degregation stuff - rusty bodywork, etc.
The ICE in my Honda would outlast the body's life by at least three times I reckon! My initial plan was "to run it until it stops, then but an EV", but it's clear it's going to be a pile of brown flakes before the mechanicals give out.
@@jakethadley My 2000 Corolla is still fine, but I barely used last year. But it is a Japanese made car, the quality is better than others. I have more than 220 000 km on it, and I may have used it more if I didn't bought an EV (manual transmission is a pain in traffic jam, E-pedal is the best thing of EV).
My 2.5 years old Leaf may indeed not be of the same quality (I had some minor issues with the windows). I will see how it age.
Don 't be duped there is no climate emergency
@@malawidick Don't be fooled into thinking we are not ruining our environment. Expecting that our current, Turbo Capitalist societies can continue unabated. At the expense of our environment is pure fantasy. Most people accept the premise that it can't continue. Unless your an Ayn Rand acolyte of course...
It will be interesting to see over the next few years, with improving tech, what kinds of aftermarket battery swaps become available.
Agree - with improvements in battery chemistry energy density will increase. There'll also be "Tesla" quality aftermarket batteries for cheaper EVs.Also, s/ware improvements will mean aftermarket faster charging options will be available. The same will occur with motors - a Zoe GT with Teslaesque performance!
Leaf P100d lolz
@@RFSA180 Yeah! It will last about two weeks before the battery overheats!
@@RFSA180 you forgot the Zoe‘s advantage: Leaf P100D with 43kW AC charger
Already he said the 60KWh pack can still fit in there with minor modifications, that's crazy !
Had my Leaf serviced at Matt's original workshop in 2018 , just took out my camping chair a sat there watching him... what a professional, and he gave me a great discount .
I'm so glad you've covered these guys finally. I've been raving about them and muxan for a while wondering why more people aren't finding this exciting haha
While I love the idea, as an EV specialist I'm always concerned when the battery has been involved in a crash.
It can cause internal damage in the battery pack, which is unnoticable for a while. I've seen the main high voltage relay welded solid as a result of a collision (since the first thing most people do to avoid a collision is to brake hard, which activates recuperation.), causing the battery to always be active.
Interchangeable, compatible. Another piece of exciting news for the DIY community.
Former petrolhead, when people wanted to upgrade performance, they would remove running gear off other vehicles, with fabrication and bespoke items.
Imagine, having an EV vehicle, drive in, drive out with upgrades battery, battery charger, BMS.
This is the future.
To see engine tuners with their rolling roads adopting this innovation with EV.
Thanks for sharing.
Inspiring!
Love this video. It's great to see an independent garage offering a battery swap and upgrade service to keep older cars on the road. Nice work guys
Wonderful, I knew this would eventually happen. Price needs to come down further of course.
Yeah, and I've been waiting for the 2nd hand market for used packs :) Years ago I aquired a whole bunch of individual batteries to create my own battery solar storage, and it would have been SO MUCH EAISIER and QUICKER to pick up a used EV pack! This is cool.
The price is still the real issue but it is great that cars are being given more life rather than being scrapped. Demand for battery packs would still seem to be outstripping supply and until that issue is solved I can't see prices falling substantially.
Agreed. I’d happily pay 3-4K for the additional range but I don’t love the old leaf design enough to spend £8k more on a 6 year old car sadly.
@se fi Not sure if 50 years is very realistic. Ignoring issues like salt and corrosion, old cars eventually become a losing proposition as other parts degrade, anything from wiring to brake lines to A/C parts to seals and various other parts. To drive a very old car, one also has to accept an interior that will be falling apart or spring some money to fix it up. Carpets, seats, headliners, dash, etc gets pretty ratty after about 15 years in most cases along with paint, so all that would have to be addressed unless you want to drive something rather sad looking.
Time to take those old battery packs and swap the cells out for fresh ones and resell them as rebuilt battery packs.
Great video, good to see the re-use of battery packs, helping to dispel the doom and gloom of the ‘FUDsters’ - well done Cleevely’s
I love the look of the old Leaf. So unique with its funny bug eyes. I had a 30kwh one for three years and loved it. Would have kept it as a second car if it hadn't been so expensive to buy!
A good idea, but it will only be taken up by very few owners.
Right now, at the bottom of the market a 2011 Leaf 24kWh with 30mi range showing on the GOM is worth £4,500 (Rob was being kind with 50mi: Maybe on a warm day, downhill with a tailwind)
Add the £8500 battery cost to what you can sell the 2011 for and you're looking at a newer 2018 40kWh with 130mi showing on the GOM. The same result but now you're in a 7 year newer car.
This is why NIO has such an advantage. They do battery swapping right now, and when advancements are made to pack designs, they can get them immediately without any refitting issues. It’s a future proof way to tackle it.
Battery swapping can be done for most EVs, it's just a matter of time effort required unless there's some software-encrypted DRM block. Given the current material cost of a battery swap ($10k and above) the cost of labor isn't the big factor here. Gruber can already do Tesla battery repairs.
NIO's battery swapping feature is nice, but not a game changer. Batteries are generally reliable components that can last many years.
But that's the point. The batteries can last for ages. NIOs model takes the ownership of the most expensive part of the car out of the equation. The battery is NIOs asset. But they've done that mainly to enable hot swapping for charging purposes rather than upgrades. Drive in and drive out in 5 mins with a full charge. That will become defunct as 350kW+ charger installs gather momentum. New Kia/hyundai 800v architecture can add 100miles in 4 mins, or 10-80% in 15mins....who needs the complication of a hotswap then.
@@ChrisBaileyMusic Agreed. Future fast charging advancements will make hot-swapping obsolete. Personally I see the battery lease model as nothing more than a gimmick, because why not lease the whole car? The only place where I see this happen is with jetliners, where the airline owns the aircraft but leases the engines (Rolls-Royce is a big pusher of this sales model) because airlines find it hard to maintain them, and would rather let the manufacturer handle maintenance support, and let them take the risk if something goes wrong.
@@Avantime that's all very well for something as complex as a jet engine. Batteries are less complex as assembled modules. No moving parts or fine physical tolerances. No chance of falling out of the sky if you get it wrong.... etc
@@ChrisBaileyMusic That's why I think no one's going to be interested. People will either buy the whole car, or lease the whole car. They're not going to buy half a car and lease the other half.
Battery hot-swapping is only feasible with a corporate fleet of trucks where batteries are strategically placed on set routes, because they need to be on the road 24/7 in order to make money.
I swapped the battery a year ago in my 2012. Vent from 210 Gids to 465 at 100% SOC. It did get a second life twice as good as it's first 8 years. Will work for "generations" until it is down to 210 Gids again :-)
Awesome episode, Robert! Been looking forward to seeing your original EV get a newer battery, incredible to see!
Brilliant information Robert - I recall sharing a speaker slot with you at the Malvern Innovation Show some years ago when we were both embarking on our EV journey with 1st Gen Nissan Leafs! We were amongst fellow EV pioneers! Looking forward to your 'swap progress' video. We are now driving our third Leaf (Gen2) and already considering a swap out after 6 yrs/50k miles) and will be in touch with Matt. Keep up the great work! Mike
£13,500 to upgrade an old Leaf with an old battery.... when u can buy a new MG for £19k with 7 yr warranty...u would need to be really in love with your Leaf!
52kw and estate MG5 EV looks good
@@nesvarbu6964 MG5 showing the way in value :)
Well it was 8,500 quid for the conversion shown to a 40kWh battery.
I was wondering when they would get to the price. According to Musk, current EV battery cost is around $200 per kWh. LifePO4 cells cost about $450 for a kWh of cells as a comparison. So you can see $8k of cost in cells, then getting screwed over to the tune of 20% for VAT and we are up to $10k of pure cells. It's not an unreasonable price.
The 13.5k price was for the biggest battery pack, a 62kWh I think, and again, the price is not unreasonable. That said, I bought a 2017 Chevrolet Bolt with 30k on the clock for about $15k, so probably under 12 grand in "your British pounds". It has a 230 mile range and is basically a new car and much better than a Leaf.
@Ross Bourne What's your source for that Ross?
I can't wait to see where the aftermarket goes for battery upgrades. Would love to see companies making replacement packs for older electric cars as the battery tech improves.
Triple range? Woah! Geez, even if the 40 kwh battery degrades, 150 miles starting degrading down to 100 over time is still double the range and perfectly usable. We could see those first-generation Leafs on the road for 20 more years! Amazing!
But after an additional £8500 you still have a 10 year old car with 60-100k on the clock and a second hand battery! I don't get it. Please tell me what I'm missing...
@@sharpeside What you are missing is that it's an electric car. If you want to get it, stop looking at it like an ICE car. Change the battery once for £8500 then never pay for oil changes, transmissions, air filters, spark plugs, catalytic converters, etc. One-time expense, predicted life span of 10-20 more years with effectively £0 in maintenance fees, low and stable electricity [fuel] costs, low registration and insurance costs, low to no MOT costs, and on and on. It's a total flip from the typical way we are all used to looking at cars and their associated costs, that's why it is difficult to see.
@@justin_time ok, thanks.
However, there are currently 105 Nissan leafs nationally that are a maximum of 7 years old, a maximum of 50k on the clock, at a maximum price of £8500
You see, what I would do is sell your 10 year old car for 4500, add that to your 8500 and get a 4 year old leaf with 10k on the clock
@@sharpeside Strange. In the US there are many Leafs available for ~£1500-2500. Many of those cheap deals are from areas that are very hot (California, Texas, etc) which caused the Nissian batteries to degrade much faster, leaving many in that price range with ~30 miles of range. Maybe they haven't degraded as fast in the UK because temperatures aren't as hot and so their values have remained higher. Many Nissan Leafs from areas with cooler temperatures in the US also haven't suffered from much degradation either. (If only Nissan had added thermal management [cooling+radiators], this problem of battery swaps wouldn't even exist.) It seems like you are still thinking in terms of total mileage ("on the clock"), but most old EV drivetrains have average projected lifespans of between 300,000-500,000 and new EV's closer to 1,000,000. Overall mileage isn't as important of a factor to consider when buying a used EV as it is with ICE cars. Range per charge is the new defining factor.
This is great. Have just bought a used 30KW Leaf and battery should be good for around 7 more years but I love the idea that when its past its best we could potentially keep the car and simply upgrade the battery.
I had my battery replaced in my 2012 Leaf in 2019. It was a new 24 KWH battery from Nissan. It cost me $8200. Hopefully, with the new chemistry, the new battery will last much longer.
It is unfortunate that desirable EVs have been built like disposable personal electronics (phones, laptops, countertop kitchen gadgets). By the time you need to do a major repair or cell retrofit, the new cars are so much sexier that you just want to but a new one.
The mfgs knew this all along. ICE cars were most profitable when they could sell very cheap cars, that a new car junkie would replace every two years, and they could resell the 2 year old used car at a hearty markup too.
I see ICE cars that are over 20 years old, and most are still using their original fuel system and drivetrain. Average ICE car makes 300,000 to 600,000 km in a life, where in 1960 it was 100,000 miles or 160,000km.
I see very few ten year old EVs and most of them driven by pensioners that only need 20 mile range. An enclosed golf cart.
I would hope after development of the Tesla 3 that EVs have grown up to not just be personal electronics that are discarded quickly in favor of the latest model, but even Tesla does seem to be following the iPhone model though of emotional crowd marketing.
Very cool business to help keep these cool EV's on the road.
amazing that a Leaf can last 10 years and still be usable. They didnt even have active cooling
Yeah, it’s England, not Arizona or Florida.
@@aussie2uGA the 2011-12 ones don't do well with heat the 2013 and newer ones battery chemistry does quite well with the heat here in AZ
Great video, really enjoyed it! I just got a 2012 Nissan Leaf with 30k miles, it is a dream car, but already the battery is at 70 SOH. I'm sure as the price oil skyrockets, more and more buyers will get interested in these amazing cars, and the battery swap shops will be sprouting up all over the USA (I'm in New York City). Keep up the good work!
I can predict something...If Trump is President again, he is promising to champion gas-powered vehicles, and talking about prohibiting further sales of EVs in this country. He is beholden to the Big Oil people...his next step will be to order the price of electricity to soar upwards, and the profits will somehow be shunted to his cronies! Therefor, I am nervously awaiting NOV 4th....a would love to purchase an EV right now...but you can see my point, right!
@@curbozerboomer1773Yeah, and the bad part is if he wins, then other leaders around the world will either follow his example (either willingly or otherwise) or risk being barred from the US (even worse, possibly be targeted by them either for sanctions or military operations).
Fantastic. So glad the Leaf continues to be a strong EV seller in the UK. Battery swap/upgrade is an absolute Leaf advantage.
Older Tesla with a new PCM should be able to do this too, right? until the switch to these new in body batteries.
@@MrMduchesne23 The Tesla battery packs last far longer, but this type of swap or upgrade would mostly apply to the Model S/X, as those packs were designed to be swapped in 90 seconds during the early design phase at battery swapping stations.
I hope that EVs can embrace battery modularity so that people can upgrade just the battery if they'd like to. No reason to replace a whole car if just the battery is worn. I'm hoping that once Toyota eventually comes around to EVs in 6 to 10 years or so that they'll do it.
Have seen James (James & Kate) doing this a few times, now he is with Clevely.
I sub to "EV James and Kate", and have seen that vid. The two of them are EXTREMELY knowledgeable on EV's, and I've learned much from them.
@@lordpitnolen2196 Oops!
James and Matt Cleevely show the process in a lot more detail for those interested.
when a reused battery is more expensive than the car itself
because the original battery chemistry (and its OEM servicing) were such a drag.
This video reveals some of the problems of the ev's:
1. the manufacturers cannot support old cars with batteries and they expect the cars to be landfilled by the 9-10yrs mark so they will have very low resale value as they approach that mark. They will not even want to support old cars because they want to sell new cars. Since manufacturers have to provide spare parts only 8 years after a car goes out of production is too easy to avoid supporting old cars, just keep a model in production for only 2 years.
2. the much claimed fact that the batteries will have a much bigger capacity due to advances in technology is a myth. The new batteries are just slightly better than the old ones after 10 years of developement. They have 150% capacity but they are also larger and heavier as the man said, so, in fact, it's not such a big improvement, the energy density is only slightly better that 10 years ago.
@@crichtonjohn1187 this comment won't age well
@@crichtonjohn1187 Graphene batteries etc will likely arrive large scale soon and will validate the improvement claims
@@crichtonjohn1187 My prediction is that capacity (range) won't matter much in the not too distant future.
Once we've reached a decent range, charging speed will be the deciding factor.
3-500 km before you get to stretch your legs, fill up on drinks and snacks, and maybe even a toilet break, and 20 minutes later you're ready for another 3-400 km run (not that it's safe to drive for so long without a proper break).
Great to see the older batteries reused for solar storage & older leafs revived. Inspiring work 👍
That was always the intention of early EV boosters.
A Nissan Leaf would work perfectly for me for my work commute, even with a diminished battery
You could probably find one extra cheap with diminished range
Awesome! I would love to see this available in Canada! My 2016 Leaf is still going strong at 90% battery, but this would be a great option. Love this!
There are shops in canada that will do this. The challenge is finding good used packs.
I have been waiting a year for this video!
S
We had our conversion done at Muxsan in Holland last year in February. This battery swap was a good decision. Since then we only had a few bugs that were solved in firmware updates. We were one of the first people on his list that got a 40 Kwh conversion so that was to expect. I can recommend this to everyone we can now drive 250 Km (around 155 miles) in summer, so that's pretty usable. I've sold our old Nissan leaf 24 Kwh pack for 2000 euro (1700 pounds-), so that can help to cover some of the conversion costs.
Can I ask how you sold it, eBay etc and was it to a private company or person? I’ve a 24kwh leaf and trying to figure out the cost.
another totally excellent episode, I can't understand why this channel doesn't have absolutely millions of subscribers ............. ?????????????????
There is a full vid on the full battery swap by these guys,very interesting.
nice video. i have a 2015 Nissan Leaf. i just purchased a 2019 Chevy Bolt. now i have 250+ miles per charge. seriously, i'm glad i left that 60 mile range behind.
Thank you for posting a video that isn't related to April first.
Hmmm, maybe it is and you just don't know...!?
What a cool service that this company is providing! If I still had my Gen 1 LEAF, I would be wanting to get my battery swapped out by them. Alas, wrong continent for me.
This is incredible. Makes so much sense and has such a great environmental impact! Congrats!
And drilling, extracting and refining oil doesn't? Ok then, how about the odd huge oil tanker spillage, polluting thousands of square miles of ocean?
OMG thats the guy from the other youtube channel I watch EV james and kate! This was ALWAYS THE POINT OF EV'S Was that you could replace the battery and the motor over and over and over and over. Then you can RECYCLE the ENTIRE CAR. That is the whole point, it always has been and this makes me so happy.
Would love to upgrade my 2012 Leaf to a 62kWh pack and add that 17.6kWh extender for the lols. Almost 80kWh would be more than my Model 3! Should be able to get 300 miles or 500km.
You might need new springs for that. It won’t handle better
What would cost the new battery swap ?
Now that it's a possibility, the next thing is work on getting the cost down.
My wife drives a 2015 Leaf and we are hawking this channel !
Imagine a world where open source software is mandatory. So many things would not needed to be replaced!
Apparently Elon Musk has made all? his work open source 🙌
Ya! Just ordered my huge fully charge swag purchase from my photography at fully charged live and now I will rock my fully charged shirt on my show
Battery swaps are definitely very important to keep older EV's going. Battery prices coming down will of course help. Cleevely are the place to go for electric car maintenence as there isn't alot of companies out there doing it at the moment and they are great at what they do. 👍
Its a relief to see this progress being made. We cant rely on the manufacturers as they can be obscenely costly and will slap customers with an "end of life" to get them to buy a new car
Gives me hope that one day a pauper like me will be able to afford an electric car with decent range.
Don't worry Ashley...synthetic fuels are on the way...
This is great !! I’ve got a 2011 with 62k and only gets 25 miles range. I’m looking for a 40kwh soon
At that price I would definitely take the old pack and strip the cells, there is a good market in used cells, granted you would need to know what you are doing but there are plenty of videos showing how to remove the modules and test them, if you get them out you can get £100 per pack and there are 24 of them in the 24kw Leaf, lots of people using them for home storage projects and ev conversions.
I think the average pack value is about £5k for the 24kWh, even if its degraded. People use them for storage projects all the time. So £5k off the £8.5k price for a 40kWh upgrade makes it seem like excellent value to be honest. I can see why Clevely don't offer this "discount" directly though if they don't have a continuous flow of batteries out as well as in. They'd be sitting on money they couldn't access. But...I've been have discussions with a company here in South Wales that is able to repurpose 2nd life EV batteries for static storage. Maybe Clevely can link up with them for some throughput and then pass that saving onto the customer directly?
I wonder if it makes sense to replace single modules. If repaired the other old cells will follow sooner or later.
@@ChrisBaileyMusic the 8.5 price already includes leaving the old battery. If the customer was to keep it, the price would be higher.
@@jankoodziej877 my understanding is they will keep it for convenience, but the customer is also welcome to take it. There is no mention of a difference in cost.
@@ChrisBaileyMusic It's way too valuable. Leaving the battery is part of the price.
So helpful to see Robert’s personal model for provident living in our throw-away world. Well done.
Great episode, and love this channel in general. One little remark. It is "The Netherlands" Holland is just a small part of our beautiful country. :)
I love this. Reusing the battery and extending the use of the car reducing the need for new materials to be used and an extra revenue stream for their business.
Great episode as always. Good to see people recycling and keeping their old cars going!
It's like organ donation for EVs! Brilliant work. Still not cheap, but cheaper than buying a new EV, and if you love your car, giving it a new heart/pancreas/whatnot to extend its life is just the thing to do. Great to read about this. Glad Matt is finding uses for the old, degraded batteries, too! When Paul Hawken wrote Ecology of Commerce decades ago, this is the kind of thing I imagined coming of it: less, or even no, waste, and old tech getting upgraded instead of sent to landfills.
It's a great service, no doubt... but you really have to love your old Nissan to spend £8,500 or £13,500 on it!
Agree with so many other comments. It would be great to see another company taking the packs and turning them into storage. I can see the pitch now. If you want to keep your pack we can turn it into a home storage system for £x.
Soon this will be the ‘norm’ upgrading EV battery packs as time goes by....maybe a 300 mile MKI Leaf.....one day !
The James and Kate channel also did a video on this subject. Great to see independent garages providing these services
Second life is a great idea. The price seems to be a bit high though. Thanks for the video.
Good stuff. I think the boot battery extension is worth considering too. Increased range and lowers the degradation load on the original battery pack.
Seeing all those 60% SOH batteries makes me jealous, mines at 52% 😂 but hay it was £2500 and I still use it daily, perfect as a town car
So of the 8.500£ replaced battery your car’s battery must be more worth than 2.500£.
Keep it rolling :) I’m still at 85% and plan to run it into the ground, hoping another 5 plus years.
are you guys charging to 100%?
@@AsekiBekovy yep. I treat mine very VERY badly on purpose as an ongoing test, so I ;
-Always charge to 100%
-Only plug in when the range is at - -
-Have massive 225-55-18 tyres.
@@willyd-adv wow okay, we plan on doing the opposite with our evalia ;)
This is awesome! We need companies like this in the USA. I would like to upgrade my 2011 LEAF in future. So glad Nissan made the battery pack the same for all these years!
Have seen these guys over at the James & Kate EV channel, some very cool work they do!
Really looking forward to seeing your upgraded Leaf too, Robert! :D
Yes, I'm surprised Robert didn't mention that they can replace a single failed module in a pack if that is all that is needed. Perhaps a video on that is coming.
@@davidholden2658 My guess in the dark is that it might have been mentioned, but did not make the final cut for some reason or another.
Robert, I absolutely love the variety and choices of music that you and your team select to play in your videos, but they pale in comparison to the valuable information that you present in each episode.
Very cool. I always thought it would be great if you could do that with the Zoe because the car has been mechanically the same since the start. So I think the zoe battery attachment is the same as it has been. Meaning in Theory a 52 kwh battery could physically fit in a 1st year zoe. With the higher sales of the Zoe in Europe seems like a very logical car for this type of service. Then again a lot of those are with a rent battery.
No.1 Channel if you are an electric enthusiast.
Very often complete packs only need cells replacing in them, would have liked to have seen this video cover that as well because for many they just need new modules replacing (which we have seen clevely do James and Kates Channel) which is much much cheaper, already lots of teeth drying in the comments from Jeremey Clarkson fans with that I told you so looks on their faces, also dont forget when you swap out your battery pack you lose the warranty on it as well, thats worth mentioning because if you have a failing battery it might drop in to being able to be replaced under the original 8 year warranty. Its a great service but 8 grand is much too high, battery prices have fallen massively they need to understand that.
I shuddered at 8:49 seeing the laptop sort of balanced on the roof of the car.
This is good and the right to repair is a good thing and extending the life and usability of the Leaf is a great thing. The cost of the pack is over 10 times the value of the car I brought 3 years ago at £700 and I have only spent £1000 on repairs + Z rated tyres since then, but it is petrol and I have only done 12,000 since I bought it. I am an evil person by using fast fossil fuel V6 car :)
Thank you for sharing
Looking forward to your follow up episode with your old/new super Leaf. 👍
What a great video,as a 2013 Leaf owner with about 55 miles of range this would be a welcome and bring back my Leaf back to a longer life!
8k is a lot though eh?
Will be really exciting when one can exchange their LI Battery with Solid State ones !
That'll be the day!🙏🏿🙏🏿
...for a reasonable price...
Or swap it for a water-cooled battery..?
Great to see old Leafs getting a new lease of life. It would be interesting to know how insurance companies in the UK handle EVs that have had their battery swapped. Here in NZ I have heard that some companies won't insure the cars because they have been modified, and those that will insure a modified car, won't insure the cars for the new value because in has increased in value.
Seems like there would be a market for a conversion kit for CHAdeMO to CCS. We know from the LEVC taxis that it's possible to have both on a vehicle,but no one else seems to do that.
I can't see a need for that yet. Most new rapid chargers in the UK still have CHAdeMO and CCS connectors. I don't know if its an issue in other countries.
Brilliant! Lots of damand here in Australia. We own a 2012 and 2019 Leaf. Recently purchased a battery pack from a 2012 to power a zero turn mower, and an off grid cabin.
Great business acumen. Like the leafs and love the idea of a 1st gen big power / range Egt
but he didn't seem to know exactly how much Nissan were charging for a battery swap... bit strange
Am contemplating the same thing for my 2014 Leaf, thanks for the peek, looking forward to seeing your swap!
Very cool. I wish I could convert our i3 Rex 22kWh to 40 or 60kWh and remove the engine, then take the 22kWh and use it for a home battery backup.
Totally doable, did a 60->120Ah swap a few months ago!
To reiterate- unlike some Nissans, the 1st gen Leaf is an excellent and reliable car. Have a 2013SL and have had zero problems at all. Nothing. After 7 years, I replaced the 12V battery. Only because it was 7 years old. Love the surround cameras too.
You are lucky, not all of us owners have batteries that stood the test of time.
For a second I thought that was a flying Nissan Leaf in the thumbnail!
An idea for the next upgrade?
I got to experiment with a Fiat 500 with a degraded battery pack. To me it became a fun little toy to do short little trips around town like a grown up PowerWheels.
I really did enjoy it, I really never had range anxiety, because I didn't push it to be anything more than my daily driver.
So degraded battery packs and older EVS may have a 2nd chance market for people with limited range commutes.
I was surprised at how expensive a second hand small capacity battery costs. I can see where all the money goes on a new electric car with a much bigger battery. No wonder they give a good warranty with the battery because you wouldn't want to replace it!
They rebuild the larger batteries. And Leaf batteries have a relatively short lifespan due to the air cooling. The water cooled batteries everyone else like Tesla uses will last far longer and degrade far less over time, typically 1-2% a year or so.
You may not need to fully replace it. Cleveleys also offer a battery refurbishment facility. They refurbed the battery on a 10 year old Leaf a while ago. The cost was £600. The video is on RUclips........
I've just had my 2012 leaf traction battery replaced by EVs Enhanced in Christchurch (New Zealand). I could only justify the cost of a replacement 24kw battery, but I could have put a 40kw or a 30kw, but I didn't.
I went from a 60% health battery to a 85% battery, and the range was a huge change afterwards. I'll get another 6-8 years of use from the car for local use around town and that's all I really wanted.
Are you out of your mind? £8500 for a battery replacement on a Leaf? If I sell it for £4000 I can get a Used Ioniq 😧
An essentially “new” car with more range for £8500 would work for me. How much will you pay for the Used Ioniq? Just curious. Cheers.
I thought they'd added an extra 0 by mistake.
A used Ioniq (or Leaf) is from about £18-20k. So let's say you get £4k for your Leaf, then that's £8.5k vs £14-16k. Assumibg you have the money available, you then have to judge whether the other benefits of having an Ioniq or a later generation Leaf is worth an extra £5.5-7.5k. It's nice to have the choice, and surely environmentally efficient to reuse cars and batteries.
@@gwarlow There was a used Ioniq on Autotrader for £13.2k for few weeks, that is gone, but I can see one now 17 reg for just under £14k. It is still a much better option than upgrading a 11/12 reg leaf for £8500!!!
@Ross Bourne I think the debt levels are high because people don't know how to do math. If you already have a leaf, you could spend £8500 to upgrade the battery, or sell the leaf, use the same £8500 and buy a better car. No extra money used.
Great channel that actually gets to the root of problems and advantages of E.V.'s.
Greetings from mexico , Its awsome what you. Doing And thank s to the channel 👍🏻
RIGHT ON, 'RIGHT to REPAIR'. And Designing for Ease of Service, ALSO highly undervalued & underutilized by manufacturers! The Philosophy of 'Change Everything as FAST as POSSIBLE' and Build for Immediate Obsolescence' is the Norm. Build ONE CAR. With ONE CLASSIC, PLEASING Body style. Make it MODULAR, and Serviceable, low carbon footprint & cheap to RUN. No NEED to change it EVERY YEAR, incl. stupid styling 'cues', make it SIMPLE, not ever-more COMPLEX, sustainable as Possible, and also LIGHT & CHEAP, and you will have a Winning Car- AND Business Model!
Great to see! I’m surprised Muxsan are involved in every update though, seems to be a bit of a bottle neck if these was to keep scaling.
They probably need to "hack" some activation scheme with individual keys.
Really annoying, that the manufacturers seems to do everything they can to prevent independent garages, doing repairs on their cars.
If this was as easy as unscrewing the battery pack, unplugging it, and then plug and install a new battery pack, it would be something that even ordinary people could do themselves.
Newer cars are even worse from what i have seen. New cars have the battery pack as an integral part of the chassis frame in the bottom of the car. Probably somewhere between impossible and very very hard, to replace.
@@JohnDoe-bd5sz newer batteries are longer lasting🙌
@@cherylreid2964 so they say...only time will tell
For me, the benefit here is that I can buy an older Leaf in the knowledge that there will be a fairly straightforward way to keep the car on the road way into the future. As the supply of good 2nd use batteries is squeezed by demand, there will be other cells retro fitted into the battery shell as some are already doing.
I'm wondering here if Nissan and even Tesla supports "Rights to Repair" options for owners. Looks like this guy has figured out a way to 'get around the system' but I'm not liking this setup at all. Car manufacturers need to make electric cars with a quick easy swap system. THEY CAN DO THIS...they just don't want to.
Yeah. The need to patch the software for each individual car indicates that Nissan put countermeasures against easy repair / swapping into place.
@@PhilipLon7 Such JERKS...plus the dealers know this as well. Maybe the first line of fixing this for us would be for 'them' to lose a sale right when they think they 'have one.'
Rich Rebuilds shows the hassle of repairing your own Tesla. I hope as EVs become common some manufacturers at least find ways to repair or recycle them.
this car is not being repaired, its being upgraded
Im sure its trivial for a dealer to replace a battery in a Leaf with either a new or used one of the same size
the issue here is the charger and the battery monitor system needs to be told the battery is bigger, so all the display functions work correctly.
Good gravy, the English are a faultlessly polite people! God Bless them!
Unless of course you start a war with us.......