I always interpreted "I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve" to be a complicated, self-deprecating, backhanded compliment. Bilbo was admitting that the hobbits were very good and deserved to be liked, but also admitting that he, Bilbo, didn't like them as much as they were worthy of being liked.
I'd like to think that Bilbo learned his peculiar speechcraft from Gandalf (see Gandalf's response to Bilbo's wish of "Good morning" in The Hobbit). That's why Gandalf was the only one who understood.
I think Gandalf is just like one of us, the half of the viewers that understood less than half of the video as well as we wanted, but still pretend to have understood more than that.
@@hozzoh9936 they did not agree to that because they didn't want sauron as an enemy to their race if they would not suceed. And it would be super easy for nazguls to just catch the eagle and take the ring since it would be super visible in the sky.
The correct substitution of the right words left out in the half of the quote will lead to the inverse translation where more than half of the guests had less than half of the amount of like they deserve. Substituting less than instead of exactly is more or less what is needed.
Spot on with the first part. Regarding the second part, within the context of Bilbo initially asserting that he's immensely fond of them all, when he goes on to say that he likes a fraction of them half as well as they deserve, it effectively means that he likes them a lot already, but they deserve to be liked twice as much. The result is that no one was being insulted with the puzzling comment, and some people were complimented.
I like to believe he said it this way so they, like us, would have to take time to unpack it. Then when they realized it was a nice little compliment it's like another nice little gift for them all on his birthday.
I think he means this: "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like" means: I wish I would know some of you better than I do "And I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve" some of you deserved more love from my part.
I think the second sentence is a sort of apology for being eccentric, distant, and reclusive the last few years / decades. He's basically saying "There are many outstanding hobbits, though still of a minority, who deserve to be treated better than I've treated you because I'm weird, sorry." So it's definitely double-edged and double-meaning'd. It's an apology to the people he's neglected or annoyed that didn't deserve it. And it's also a mild admonishment of the declining moral quality of modern hobbits (looking at you, Lobelia), because he doesn't like them about equally as much as he thinks they deserve. On the upside, he first admitted that he'd like to know half of them better. So when taken all together, he's also saying that, of the people he doesn't like and who he thinks deserves it, he might've liked some of them more once if he'd gotten to know them better. (but now it's too late, bye! *poof!*)
Yeah, I think he had to put more effort into enjoying hobbity life after the effects of the ring, he probably realized he had become more antisocial than his past self. He knew that he could be great friends with some of them but he didn't have it in him to actually go out, have fun, and get to know them for real. Basically, this is what it's like when you struggle with depression, you can't take the same joy in anything or anyone and you know it's really unfair to the people around you.
I like this explaination: it wasn't subosed to mean ANYTHING. Bilbo just wantet to give them something to think about. And if they do that, they also think about him.
I disagree. It was entirely meant to mean everything, because as a going away present to himself, he was telling them exactly what he thought of them. The REAL question which caused them ALL to be quiet was "am I of the half he'd like to know more, or the half he'd like to to know less?" And therein lies the joke.
@Bryson Reins You're externalizing it to much. Make it 1st person (he's talking to you). Reduce the numbers so there is only two of you he is talking to. He doesn't plainly say he likes you, or the other person, but then he says one of you he doesn't like, again not giving a hint as to which is which. Now, how good do you feel? How sure are you he's talking about the other person? There is a thing called doubt in everyone where you're going to think, "was he saying I'm the one he likes, or not?!?" Let's make it simpler, you're arguing text, I'm arguing subtext. Yes, on the surface, he is paying someone a complement, but by not saying who that is, he is casting the net wider than it seems about who he doesn't like.
@Bryson Reins You got me! For a long second I thought you were serious and sincere in your reply and look for a serious discussion. It is apparent now you never intended to take what I said seriously. Your reply is nothing but an argument. You have no understanding of semantics (the meanings of words). To you, Bilbo's speech was simply a math equation. Good day.
Those words *could* conceivably be an example of litotes, or rhetorical understatement (it’s the opposite of exaggeration). As when people say “I didn’t half enjoy X”, meaning, “I enjoyed X very much indeed”. This is a perfectly normal expression in English.
@@NerdoftheRings I don't know of half of you content creators half of as much as I would like; and I watch less than half of your videos half as well as you deserve.
I always interpreted this line as meaning, “I’d like to know more of you and yeah I’m an ass at times but a good portion of you are more deserving of praise than I typically give you.” So it’s a compliment.
To me it sounds like Bilbo is saying he doesnt know or like half of the hobbits there nearly as much as he wants to. Then he goes on to say that less then half are liked more they then deserve. This could be a direct reference to the Sackville baggins. It is a simultaneous Roast and major complement because in truth he is quite fond of them all, being hobbits. But then there are the Sackvilles...
I think he says less then half really deserve to be liked more. So its a compliment/apology to a few and thereby, at the same time a smirk to the majority.
Oh, some of them understood it quite well, and many of those took it as an insult: they were convinced that they personally were only invited so that the gross could be fulfilled. In the book that is made perfectly clear.
The statement says more about how Bilbo feels about himself than about Hobbiton in general. He recognizes that he's not as neighborly or amiable as an old man with such a pleasant life ought to be. He keeps to himself and underrates people around him too much. Of course, he's too proud to say that outright, so he disguises it as a joke.
I always interpreted this as a kind of apology to the Hobbits. He knows they deserve to be liked better, but he can't bring himself to like them that much.
In the second half of the line, Bilbo is essentially saying he admits they deserved more from him but he does it in a way he knows nobody will understand. He likely doesn’t want to admit that and this is his way of satisfying both of his personalities at this point. Despite being slowly corrupted by the ring, he’s being a class act here. This writing is amazing.
it's a compliment, He says he would like to know half of them better, and that he likes less than half of them half as well as they deserve. He doesn't state they are opposite halves of the community. He very well could be saying he would like to know half of them better, as he likes less than half of them half as well as they deserve...
It is entirely a Compliment, as he is saying that they deserve to be liked more, as they are good people, and he perhaps has a particular distaste for them, or maybe just doesn't have the time for them. This sort of double-meaning is not uncommon among compliments in old English literature, and is still fairly common amongst Irishmen today, as well as some colonists such as the Newfoundlanders, which I am a member of.
More accurate would be: “I don’t know half of you well ENOUGH, and half of you are better than I give you credit for.” It’s a compliment all-around, as he’s admitting that even those he doesn’t quite like are worthy of it.. he just doesn’t like them.
@@treble8921 I actually know perfectly decent, tremendously generous people I can't stand to be around for long. They have mannerisms and ways of expressing themselves that are obnoxious, or who cannot discuss anything without it turning into an argument, even when the person they are talking to actually agrees with them. I can imagine such folks clustering in villages where the patterns of youth carry on for life, whether they suit changing situations or not.
No. He obviously likes the vast majority of the 144 in the tent. There are a very few of the 144 that he does not like, by which I mean Lotho and Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, and maybe another 5-20 of the tent are people that he only likes a little bit, but which he gave seats in the tent in order to hit a desired total of 144. That’s also why many get upset when he refers to “a gros”. A lot of the hobbits wonders if they’re in the tent because Bilbo genuinely likes them, or just due to his numerological whim. But he does genuinely like most of the 144, although as he says he knows half of them less well than he’d like (or less well than he feels that he ought to).
He did what I like to think as the ultimate insult. He compliments some on the expense of the others while at the same time leaving those he insulted clueless. Passive aggressiveness; 100%
What's great is that both statements are compliments, but they're both equally sarcastic, good humored jabs. What makes this even better is that everyone is left none the wiser as to who fits which category. This is my favorite backhanded compliment I have ever heard or read because it's equal parts roast and praise, and there are no clear answers about who's who in Bilbo's judgment. This is why I like Bilbo more than Frodo. He's got better humor, and he's got a bit of a good-natured troll in him.
Insult. Let me explain with the four-sides-model: The video explained how the discussed sentence is a compliment on the *factual* level. And with that I agree. Yet we need to take a look at the three other sides of the message: 1.) The video also touched the *self-revealing* side when it talked about the self-deprecation in Bilbo's speech. But there is one more self-revealing message conveyed here: Bilbo likes to mess with people. He likes to feel above, being the cause of confusion while being in control himself (a character trait that is confirmed seconds later when he pulls of the stunt using The Ring on stage). 2.) The *relationship indicator* of this message says: It's difficult between us. I don't really know enough about you (and you don't know if I am talking about you or just the other guests...) and you probably don't know enough about me vice versa. I could change that - by I won't do it (in this moment at least). 3.) But the icing on the cake is the *appeal* of the speech: There is none. The appeal is usually defined as the thing the speaker wants his audience to do - but Bilbo doesn't give his audience something to do. They cannot change the conflicted relationship Bilbo has described, e.g. by having a drink with him and telling him about themselves. They remain passive - which is unsatisfactory for everybody but Bilbo himself. Edit: To round it up, I should say that of course there lies a kind of humor in his speech, which, if you got it, wouldn't insult or offend, but amuse you. By that means, Gandalf is fittingly the one guest who is amused by it, because he engages in the same kind of conflicted and confusing messaging. But considering Bilbo knew to a certain degree how confused his other guests would be, Gandalf is the exception to the rule here.
2:08 I don’t think he’s saying he would like to know them better. “I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like.” The key word here being “should”. He admits he SHOULD want to know them better, but he just doesn’t care. 🤷🏼♂️ At least that’s the way I understood it. 😃 Great video anyways! 👍🏼
I totally agree with this interpretation. I immediately paused the video and went looking for a comment that sees the sentence the same way. This deserves more likes.
Awesome video ! I just realized that I never answered the enigma of this sentence ! Thanks a lot and sorry for my poor vocabulary, you have my like ;) 🇫🇷
It's difficult to judge the extent of someone's vocabulary from such a short comment, but i think yours is quite good. Certainly your syntax and grammar are fine, at the very least.
Bilbo said "…half as much as you deserve" The video translates it as "EXACTLY half as much." But I translate it as "AT LEAST half as much" Less than half the guests are likes _at least_ half of what they deserve. Which means the majority of the guests deserve to be liked substantially more. Thus, it was a complement.
I'm sure I like this video at least half as much as it deserves. Four minutes and thirty-two seconds is far too short a time to spend with such excellent and admirable content!
Pretty sure the second half is also a compliment (Bilbo is admitting his own weakness and affirming that they deserve better, which is pretty positive). It seems to play off of the first part: Bilbo could almost be saying that IF he knew more of these hobbits better (as he expressed the desire to in the first part), he'd probably like them more. Or, alternatively, that they deserve to be liked at an extremely high level. HOWEVER. The second part is very witty, because it could almost pull double-duty as a back-handed compliment, simultaneously complimenting most of those who were there, while singling out a few and saying simply "I unapologetically don't like you, and I make no apologies." In essence, you're right: It was MOSTLY a compliment, but a sharp and witty one with a possible edge. And you just know that Bilbo COULD have said all that in a much more intelligible way, but he specifically went out of his way to make it confusing and ambiguous. Because he was trolling them. Tolkien was a genius.
I always thought it was a perfect statement for the circumstances. What I took away from it, from the very first, was a very diplomatic, and humorous, way of saying "I'm very fond of so many of you, the rest of you know who you are."
When Tolkien wrote about "the Shire" he was alluding to the shire that he lived in when he was young and the Hobbits in "the Shire" represent the ordinary people among whom Tolkien lived when he was young. Perhaps Tolkien wished he knew half of them more and only liked some of them half as much as they deserved? Many of the people that we do not like deserve to be liked more.
Same here...just thought it was an old Grandma living with her daughter and her grandchildren. I guess that later shot of him saying Proudfeet with the low camera angle didn't register with me that was "him"
I remember my mom read this (at my recommendation) and became confused (and slightly frustrated) when Bilbo stated he was Eleventy-One years old. "I don't know what that means!" -"He's One-Hundred and Eleven; he just switched the Eleven and the One." "Oh..." After that she was fine (she felt it was more a man's story than a woman's, which was somewhat fair, but she still liked it and the movies just the same), and to this day I still don't know why that word tripped her up and the rest of the book she breezed through. (She did have trouble after Strider became Aragorn; she was fine with him just being Strider. "So were the Hobbits, as I recall," I told her.)
We always appreciate your hard work and dedication towards these videos. We know it takes a lot of time and hard work to make these videos. Love and appreciation from a Sri Lankan fan of you from Sri Lanka 🇱🇰🤝🏴.
I think it meant nothing. People often try to interpret anything into Tolkiens work, but in old interviews he mostly says he didn´t have anything in mind what it should be a symbol for. He just let his characters say what he thougt was cool and made them look like he thougt would be the best.
Literally, it's a GREAT line, but it's very straightforward. There's no need to involve any form of maths, haha. I don't know half of you half as well as I should like = There are some of you I wish I knew better I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve = I dislike some of you when I know I've no/little reason to.
I think the "less than half of you" is where the insult lies. Bilbo wants to know half of the hobbits better and knows that most of the other half deserve more love from him, but Bilbo doesn't want to know people like the Sackville-Bagginses any better or like them anymore than the little he already does. The sentence is complentary, but it excludes a small percentage of the hobbits there. After Bilbo notes that he invited 111 people for his 111st birthday party, the Sackville-Baginses start to think they were only invited to fill out the 111 invitations. They are Bilbo's least thought of guests.
Well, you present it as if the first half (of the crowd), referred to in the first part of the quote, was entirely different from the second less-than-half, referred to in the second part of the quote. But it is possible that they overlap (3 options: either the second less-than-half is entirely different from the first half; or the second less-than-half is a subset of the first half; or the second less-than-half comprises guests who fall in the first half, and guests who don't). Bilbo is basically saying he would like to know half of the crowd better, and maybe a subset of the ones he doesn't know enough AND/OR a subset of the ones he already knows pretty well, don't get the appreciation they deserve. In any case, definitely a compliment. Regardless of how the sets intersect, telling someone "I don't like you as much as you deserve" is clearly a compliment. It doesn't mean "I don't like you", it means "You deserve to be liked more".
Perhaps in both sentences he refers to the same 50% or less of hobbits. He says he wishes he had gotten to know them better, and that he likes them less than they deserve. If he had spent more time getting to know each of them, he would see their true virtues. So Bilbo I believe pays these hobbits a compliment, mixed with a tinge of regret on his part. Let's not forget what Bilbo was like as a person (quite independent, even eccentric for a hobbit), and that now perhaps he is letting bygones be bygones. He is moving on from the Shire and is sharing this new perspective, or revelation. Just my personal thoughts. But yes I will agree very ambigious!
I actually saw it as a sort of admission of neglect. He knows, most people of the shire deserve to be treated better than he treated them. "I know half of you half as well as I should" "I should have spent more time with you all, when I still could." "And I like half of those only half as much as I should" "and the ones I know, I should have treated better." That's just how it always felt to me. No need to break out the maths for that
Plot twist: the last hobbit is Frodo (from the less than half part). He most likely knows Frodo better than anyone else in the Shire and likes him a lot, so he doesn't fit in either category of the speech.
In the Veggie Tales spoof, Lord of the Beans, "Bilboy" says, "I'm twice as tall as half of you, and half as short as twice of you!" A much less confusing statement since the "Bean of Power" allowed him to adjust his height to be taller than all other "Flobbits". 😂😂😂
Both, but overall a compliment. If his words aren't just to mess with people, which they definitely were at least that, then he genuinely means he feels he hasn't learned to appreciate them as much as he wishes he had. Sounds a lot like he's just wrapping his lamentations up in a confusing joke, since this is the last day he'll ever spend with people he has known for such a long time and grown somewhat fond of. He'd like to know more about those he doesn't know that well and he wishes he'd appreciated the others more in the time he was given, but instead of any of that, he's faking his death and moving on with his life. And enjoying every minute of their confusion, because he's still a bit of a trickster.
There is no debate about this...its simple...he doesnt know half the people there half as well as he should like....(he would liked to have known them better)...and he likes half of them half as well as they deserve...(Those people deserved to be liked more by him than he did...so he was the one at fault for not making their relationship stronger"....Simply The Professor using the English language in his book to make us think about it.
I think the second part is kind of a compliment, too. Bilbo is acknowledging that they deserve to be liked (at least to some extent), and yet he also acknowledges that he personally doesn't give them enough credit.
The implication of the sentence is that he really dislikes some of the people at this party, but also that many of the people he dislikes (up to just under half) are people that he could like more if only he knew them better.
I remember being one of the few people who laughed at this in the theater. What a hilarious statement. I am really glad you took the time to cover such a trivial topic that really shows the genius of Tolkien.
It's been about 30 years since I've read any of these books. Can you make a video dedicated to just Sauron? I can't remember any of his origin story; like what he was? A minor god corrupted by power? A troublesome spirit elevated through trickery? Of course I haven't watched all your videos yet (I will over the next few weeks), so if you've already made it, can't wait to see it! Oh, and I'm a brand new subscriber. I saw your channel and was so relieved because I've always loved these books (I absolutely LOATHE the movies) but haven't read any of them in almost 30 years... I just don't have time to read anymore.
The second part is both self-depreciation and a compliment: Bilbo admits to being a grump, a loner and disliking a lot of folk, despite them not deserving that dislike - they are fine people, he's just being a grump and failing to appreciate them as he should. He skips the rest (majority), whom he either likes or dislikes just as he should - or has no opinion. What's definitely wrong in the analysis is assuming there's no overlap between the two parts - he didn't say "the other half", so there's likely plenty of hobbits he both would like to know better, and doesn't like as much as he should - only knowing them superficially (for a bother they occasionally are) and not in-depth, finding their real value.
I always interpreted "I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve" to be a complicated, self-deprecating, backhanded compliment. Bilbo was admitting that the hobbits were very good and deserved to be liked, but also admitting that he, Bilbo, didn't like them as much as they were worthy of being liked.
And you are right
yes but also an insult to them as sees as smallminded - in my opinion
Bingo.
Ah but you see that only applies to less than half of them. So the rest don’t deserve to be liked more than he already likes them.
Same.
I like the quick shot of Gandalf, who seems to be the only one who actually understood the line
I'd like to think that Bilbo learned his peculiar speechcraft from Gandalf (see Gandalf's response to Bilbo's wish of "Good morning" in The Hobbit). That's why Gandalf was the only one who understood.
I think Gandalf is just like one of us, the half of the viewers that understood less than half of the video as well as we wanted, but still pretend to have understood more than that.
Chris Wise Wizard! 😎
@@TheJamesAraujo exactly, Gandalf wasn’t that smart. Otherwise he would have had one of the eagles carry Frodo to mount doom.
@@hozzoh9936 they did not agree to that because they didn't want sauron as an enemy to their race if they would not suceed. And it would be super easy for nazguls to just catch the eagle and take the ring since it would be super visible in the sky.
I think about this passage a lot, and after this video, I understand it less than half as well as I think I do.
I understand the speech more than I would like to understand it, and would like to not understand it at all.
Still less confusing that what Bilbo is saying.
The correct substitution of the right words left out in the half of the quote will lead to the inverse translation where more than half of the guests had less than half of the amount of like they deserve. Substituting less than instead of exactly is more or less what is needed.
@@shanerooney7288 Well done
I see what you did there. But I like the comment only half as much as it deserves.
Insult. He’s still pissed he had to buy his own stuff back when he returned from the lonely mountain
That happened so long ago that most of the byers are dead (and rest not invited to the select group that heard Bilbo’s speech.
@@sarasamaletdin4574 makes it even more funny haha
I would be too
Wouldn't you?
Well yeah. He came home with enough money to buy maybe half the shire, and ended up having to buy back his own stuff.
Bilbo's Speech: Insult or Complement?
The answer: Yes.
Correct answer: I would like to complement them more than insult them, but actually they deserve less complements than insults
Compliment*
@@ZecaPinto1 perfect
Spoken like like a true Hobbit! 😉
He’s also partially apologetic to those he never got to truly meet and know.
Spot on with the first part. Regarding the second part, within the context of Bilbo initially asserting that he's immensely fond of them all, when he goes on to say that he likes a fraction of them half as well as they deserve, it effectively means that he likes them a lot already, but they deserve to be liked twice as much. The result is that no one was being insulted with the puzzling comment, and some people were complimented.
Agree
I like to believe he said it this way so they, like us, would have to take time to unpack it. Then when they realized it was a nice little compliment it's like another nice little gift for them all on his birthday.
I agreee!!!!! But it is really confusing.
@@Eric-rr3zd when they realized it was a compliment, Frodo had already come back from Mordor
😂
I think he means this:
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like" means: I wish I would know some of you better than I do
"And I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve" some of you deserved more love from my part.
Last sentence is ironical, he is giving it to others that he actually deslikes but he pretends to like. Its a quite common speech in villages
@@ZecaPinto1 it isnt
That's what I had thought at first
The dislike was from one of the proudfeet
Probably because I once called them Proudfoots. 😄
😄👍
Now it seems the Sackville-Bagginses saw this video.
🤣🤣🤣
All 55 them I see now 😉
I conpletely forgot about the "from a contributer" note. Man, bilbo was SAVAGE
I think the second sentence is a sort of apology for being eccentric, distant, and reclusive the last few years / decades. He's basically saying "There are many outstanding hobbits, though still of a minority, who deserve to be treated better than I've treated you because I'm weird, sorry."
So it's definitely double-edged and double-meaning'd. It's an apology to the people he's neglected or annoyed that didn't deserve it. And it's also a mild admonishment of the declining moral quality of modern hobbits (looking at you, Lobelia), because he doesn't like them about equally as much as he thinks they deserve.
On the upside, he first admitted that he'd like to know half of them better. So when taken all together, he's also saying that, of the people he doesn't like and who he thinks deserves it, he might've liked some of them more once if he'd gotten to know them better. (but now it's too late, bye! *poof!*)
Yeah, I think he had to put more effort into enjoying hobbity life after the effects of the ring, he probably realized he had become more antisocial than his past self.
He knew that he could be great friends with some of them but he didn't have it in him to actually go out, have fun, and get to know them for real.
Basically, this is what it's like when you struggle with depression, you can't take the same joy in anything or anyone and you know it's really unfair to the people around you.
@@ethanmoon3925 He still wrote a lot of letters though, which I'm sure contributed to his nearly shut-in status.
I like this explaination: it wasn't subosed to mean ANYTHING. Bilbo just wantet to give them something to think about. And if they do that, they also think about him.
I disagree. It was entirely meant to mean everything, because as a going away present to himself, he was telling them exactly what he thought of them. The REAL question which caused them ALL to be quiet was "am I of the half he'd like to know more, or the half he'd like to to know less?" And therein lies the joke.
@@Leon-wz1js You might be over shooting the target a bit there
@@collybeans586 How so?
@Bryson Reins You're externalizing it to much. Make it 1st person (he's talking to you). Reduce the numbers so there is only two of you he is talking to. He doesn't plainly say he likes you, or the other person, but then he says one of you he doesn't like, again not giving a hint as to which is which.
Now, how good do you feel? How sure are you he's talking about the other person?
There is a thing called doubt in everyone where you're going to think, "was he saying I'm the one he likes, or not?!?"
Let's make it simpler, you're arguing text, I'm arguing subtext.
Yes, on the surface, he is paying someone a complement, but by not saying who that is, he is casting the net wider than it seems about who he doesn't like.
@Bryson Reins You got me! For a long second I thought you were serious and sincere in your reply and look for a serious discussion. It is apparent now you never intended to take what I said seriously. Your reply is nothing but an argument. You have no understanding of semantics (the meanings of words). To you, Bilbo's speech was simply a math equation.
Good day.
Liking someone “half as well as they deserve” is a British thing. It doesn’t mean LITERALLY half. Of course he was talking about Lobelia and Otho.
Those words *could* conceivably be an example of litotes, or rhetorical understatement (it’s the opposite of exaggeration). As when people say “I didn’t half enjoy X”, meaning, “I enjoyed X very much indeed”. This is a perfectly normal expression in English.
@@JamesMC04 Exactly!
British plus others more
I think he meant approximately half. Meaning between 40% and 60%, or even 30% and 70%.
"British people are too polite to be honest and German people are too honest to be polite."
This just popped up in feed! Cool choice of topic and really well covered! :)
Thanks @GeekZone ! I loved your vid on the Nazgul weapons from a few days ago - great stuff!
@@NerdoftheRings I actually need to watch that one.
Please Go Use Your Talent On The Bible. You have a gift.
@@NerdoftheRings I don't know of half of you content creators half of as much as I would like; and I watch less than half of your videos half as well as you deserve.
It's a joke, he treats some people better than they deserve. He is a nice person.
Pretty sure Bilbo is just Tolkien’s Hobbitsona
I am pretty convinced, too, that Bilbo is just John Tolkien placing himself into his own world. ^_^
Definitely!
Somewhere, Tolkien is all smiles at this video.
I always interpreted this line as meaning, “I’d like to know more of you and yeah I’m an ass at times but a good portion of you are more deserving of praise than I typically give you.” So it’s a compliment.
I love this line and always laugh with it. That must be Tolkien's supreme joke.
One thing we know for sure, Bilbo doesn't like block-headed Bracegirdles from Hardbottle.
To me it sounds like Bilbo is saying he doesnt know or like half of the hobbits there nearly as much as he wants to. Then he goes on to say that less then half are liked more they then deserve. This could be a direct reference to the Sackville baggins. It is a simultaneous Roast and major complement because in truth he is quite fond of them all, being hobbits. But then there are the Sackvilles...
I think he says less then half really deserve to be liked more. So its a compliment/apology to a few and thereby, at the same time a smirk to the majority.
So he does not say he likes less then half more than they deserve. He says he likes less than half (much more) less then they deserve.
I still love the fact that he invited exactly 144 and referred to them in that speech as "one gross" and they weren't sure about THAT either.
Oh, some of them understood it quite well, and many of those took it as an insult: they were convinced that they personally were only invited so that the gross could be fulfilled. In the book that is made perfectly clear.
The statement says more about how Bilbo feels about himself than about Hobbiton in general. He recognizes that he's not as neighborly or amiable as an old man with such a pleasant life ought to be. He keeps to himself and underrates people around him too much. Of course, he's too proud to say that outright, so he disguises it as a joke.
I always interpreted this as a kind of apology to the Hobbits. He knows they deserve to be liked better, but he can't bring himself to like them that much.
In the second half of the line, Bilbo is essentially saying he admits they deserved more from him but he does it in a way he knows nobody will understand. He likely doesn’t want to admit that and this is his way of satisfying both of his personalities at this point. Despite being slowly corrupted by the ring, he’s being a class act here. This writing is amazing.
it's a compliment, He says he would like to know half of them better, and that he likes less than half of them half as well as they deserve. He doesn't state they are opposite halves of the community. He very well could be saying he would like to know half of them better, as he likes less than half of them half as well as they deserve...
It is entirely a Compliment, as he is saying that they deserve to be liked more, as they are good people, and he perhaps has a particular distaste for them, or maybe just doesn't have the time for them. This sort of double-meaning is not uncommon among compliments in old English literature, and is still fairly common amongst Irishmen today, as well as some colonists such as the Newfoundlanders, which I am a member of.
Me: *watching this video*
My brain: “What the hell are you doing with your life?”
It means simply, “I don’t appreciate you enough.”
Actually a YTP simplified this line the best:
“I don’t know half of you, and I like less than half of you”
*applause*
source? I do love me a good ytp
Ta daa
More accurate would be: “I don’t know half of you well ENOUGH, and half of you are better than I give you credit for.”
It’s a compliment all-around, as he’s admitting that even those he doesn’t quite like are worthy of it.. he just doesn’t like them.
@@treble8921 I actually know perfectly decent, tremendously generous people I can't stand to be around for long. They have mannerisms and ways of expressing themselves that are obnoxious, or who cannot discuss anything without it turning into an argument, even when the person they are talking to actually agrees with them. I can imagine such folks clustering in villages where the patterns of youth carry on for life, whether they suit changing situations or not.
No.
He obviously likes the vast majority of the 144 in the tent. There are a very few of the 144 that he does not like, by which I mean Lotho and Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, and maybe another 5-20 of the tent are people that he only likes a little bit, but which he gave seats in the tent in order to hit a desired total of 144.
That’s also why many get upset when he refers to “a gros”. A lot of the hobbits wonders if they’re in the tent because Bilbo genuinely likes them, or just due to his numerological whim.
But he does genuinely like most of the 144, although as he says he knows half of them less well than he’d like (or less well than he feels that he ought to).
He did what I like to think as the ultimate insult. He compliments some on the expense of the others while at the same time leaving those he insulted clueless. Passive aggressiveness; 100%
He was definitely messing with us. His love of language is so apparent.
This has been one of my fav speeches. Beautifully explained :) You've earned a sub
Thanks for subscribing! Glad you have you! 😁
@@NerdoftheRings Can you talk about the wars of beleriand maybe? That would be interesting I think
That would be fun! Definitely! I’ve been meaning to put some first age stuff in my queue. Any battle or character in particular you’d like to see?
What's great is that both statements are compliments, but they're both equally sarcastic, good humored jabs. What makes this even better is that everyone is left none the wiser as to who fits which category. This is my favorite backhanded compliment I have ever heard or read because it's equal parts roast and praise, and there are no clear answers about who's who in Bilbo's judgment. This is why I like Bilbo more than Frodo. He's got better humor, and he's got a bit of a good-natured troll in him.
He’s saying they deserve to be liked more. So Bilbo is saying he should have been nicer to them.
And others he likes them less than they deserve
Insult. Let me explain with the four-sides-model:
The video explained how the discussed sentence is a compliment on the *factual* level. And with that I agree. Yet we need to take a look at the three other sides of the message:
1.) The video also touched the *self-revealing* side when it talked about the self-deprecation in Bilbo's speech. But there is one more self-revealing message conveyed here: Bilbo likes to mess with people. He likes to feel above, being the cause of confusion while being in control himself (a character trait that is confirmed seconds later when he pulls of the stunt using The Ring on stage).
2.) The *relationship indicator* of this message says: It's difficult between us. I don't really know enough about you (and you don't know if I am talking about you or just the other guests...) and you probably don't know enough about me vice versa. I could change that - by I won't do it (in this moment at least).
3.) But the icing on the cake is the *appeal* of the speech: There is none. The appeal is usually defined as the thing the speaker wants his audience to do - but Bilbo doesn't give his audience something to do. They cannot change the conflicted relationship Bilbo has described, e.g. by having a drink with him and telling him about themselves. They remain passive - which is unsatisfactory for everybody but Bilbo himself.
Edit: To round it up, I should say that of course there lies a kind of humor in his speech, which, if you got it, wouldn't insult or offend, but amuse you. By that means, Gandalf is fittingly the one guest who is amused by it, because he engages in the same kind of conflicted and confusing messaging. But considering Bilbo knew to a certain degree how confused his other guests would be, Gandalf is the exception to the rule here.
2:08 I don’t think he’s saying he would like to know them better.
“I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like.”
The key word here being “should”. He admits he SHOULD want to know them better, but he just doesn’t care. 🤷🏼♂️ At least that’s the way I understood it. 😃 Great video anyways! 👍🏼
I totally agree with this interpretation. I immediately paused the video and went looking for a comment that sees the sentence the same way. This deserves more likes.
Awesome video ! I just realized that I never answered the enigma of this sentence ! Thanks a lot and sorry for my poor vocabulary, you have my like ;) 🇫🇷
It's difficult to judge the extent of someone's vocabulary from such a short comment, but i think yours is quite good. Certainly your syntax and grammar are fine, at the very least.
I came here and realized ... that there is just no way to tell.. and that exit move is just AN AMAZING! What a MASTERPIECE
this is my favourite aspect of bilbo which i am always surprised to never really find it discussed
his gift giving skills are top shelf
Bilbo said "…half as much as you deserve"
The video translates it as "EXACTLY half as much." But I translate it as "AT LEAST half as much"
Less than half the guests are likes _at least_ half of what they deserve. Which means the majority of the guests deserve to be liked substantially more.
Thus, it was a complement.
I absolutely love this video. I just had to watch it three times. Once to understand, once to make sure I did and then a final time to just enjoy it.
This deserves a like just for trying to crack that code, lol
Fun to address that clever and witty line given by dear bilbo! Thanks for taking the time 👍
By saying they deserved to be liked more, it was a compliment.
I'm sure I like this video at least half as much as it deserves. Four minutes and thirty-two seconds is far too short a time to spend with such excellent and admirable content!
The thumbnail killed me
Awesome cover art 😆 The video is great as well. Thanks for making this.
Pretty sure the second half is also a compliment (Bilbo is admitting his own weakness and affirming that they deserve better, which is pretty positive). It seems to play off of the first part: Bilbo could almost be saying that IF he knew more of these hobbits better (as he expressed the desire to in the first part), he'd probably like them more. Or, alternatively, that they deserve to be liked at an extremely high level.
HOWEVER. The second part is very witty, because it could almost pull double-duty as a back-handed compliment, simultaneously complimenting most of those who were there, while singling out a few and saying simply "I unapologetically don't like you, and I make no apologies."
In essence, you're right: It was MOSTLY a compliment, but a sharp and witty one with a possible edge. And you just know that Bilbo COULD have said all that in a much more intelligible way, but he specifically went out of his way to make it confusing and ambiguous. Because he was trolling them.
Tolkien was a genius.
Nice video! I’m always glad to see Tolkien fans such as myself recommended in my feed. I subscribed 😁
Thanks for subscribing! Glad to have you, my fellow Tolkien nerd! 😁
Hes saying he might have foolishly focused on their shortcomings, but if he gave it some effort he could find a way to like them all.
I always thought it was a perfect statement for the circumstances. What I took away from it, from the very first, was a very diplomatic, and humorous, way of saying "I'm very fond of so many of you, the rest of you know who you are."
When Tolkien wrote about "the Shire" he was alluding to the shire that he lived in when he was young and the Hobbits in "the Shire" represent the ordinary people among whom Tolkien lived when he was young. Perhaps Tolkien wished he knew half of them more and only liked some of them half as much as they deserved? Many of the people that we do not like deserve to be liked more.
Loved the editing! I found it lighhearted and very enjoyable!
@3:30 honest to god, i thought that was an old woman and not the man half of the couple...like grandma
Same here...just thought it was an old Grandma living with her daughter and her grandchildren. I guess that later shot of him saying Proudfeet with the low camera angle didn't register with me that was "him"
Same
Damn, what a brilliant video! Your content is pure gold!
Thanks so much! So glad you are enjoying the channel! 😁
I remember my mom read this (at my recommendation) and became confused (and slightly frustrated) when Bilbo stated he was Eleventy-One years old.
"I don't know what that means!"
-"He's One-Hundred and Eleven; he just switched the Eleven and the One."
"Oh..."
After that she was fine (she felt it was more a man's story than a woman's, which was somewhat fair, but she still liked it and the movies just the same), and to this day
I still don't know why that word tripped her up and the rest of the book she breezed through.
(She did have trouble after Strider became Aragorn; she was fine with him just being Strider.
"So were the Hobbits, as I recall," I told her.)
We always appreciate your hard work and dedication towards these videos. We know it takes a lot of time and hard work to make these videos. Love and appreciation from a Sri Lankan fan of you from Sri Lanka 🇱🇰🤝🏴.
Lmao I just noticed that some hobbit says "What?" After Bilbo says that line.
I think it meant nothing. People often try to interpret anything into Tolkiens work, but in old interviews he mostly says he didn´t have anything in mind what it should be a symbol for. He just let his characters say what he thougt was cool and made them look like he thougt would be the best.
Son of a biscuit! I thought that lady (Odo Proudfoot I guess) was a lady my entire life! Thought he was a grandma or something!
Seems like this is a common realization for people watching this video! lol. Glad I could teach you something new! :)
Same here! For 20 years I thought the same! My paradigm has been shifted haha
I think I understand this theory half as much as it deserves.
It's not that confusing, it's a complement.
Literally, it's a GREAT line, but it's very straightforward. There's no need to involve any form of maths, haha.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like = There are some of you I wish I knew better
I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve = I dislike some of you when I know I've no/little reason to.
Yep
This is awesome work, may you go forth and prosper me lad :) Thank you sir
3:14 that's a guy? I always thought that was an old woman.
Same, all of my life...
I'm pretty sure it is...
This is one underrated channel
Bro......I literally was quoting this scene five minutes ago........and then this popped up in my recommended....
LOL...excellent! I giggle about this line each time I read or hear it. However, I never applied my asthmatic thought to it. Well done.
I agree with half of what you say half as much as you'd think and i like less than half of everything you think. .[¤¬¤].
You've earned my sub! Awesome Vid! I'm going to look for more, Thanks!
Thanks so much for subscribing! Plenty more videos on the way! :)
Your welcome!
A great roast from such a small person. Or is it?
I think the "less than half of you" is where the insult lies. Bilbo wants to know half of the hobbits better and knows that most of the other half deserve more love from him, but Bilbo doesn't want to know people like the Sackville-Bagginses any better or like them anymore than the little he already does. The sentence is complentary, but it excludes a small percentage of the hobbits there.
After Bilbo notes that he invited 111 people for his 111st birthday party, the Sackville-Baginses start to think they were only invited to fill out the 111 invitations. They are Bilbo's least thought of guests.
It's both and neither, actually.
Well, you present it as if the first half (of the crowd), referred to in the first part of the quote, was entirely different from the second less-than-half, referred to in the second part of the quote. But it is possible that they overlap (3 options: either the second less-than-half is entirely different from the first half; or the second less-than-half is a subset of the first half; or the second less-than-half comprises guests who fall in the first half, and guests who don't). Bilbo is basically saying he would like to know half of the crowd better, and maybe a subset of the ones he doesn't know enough AND/OR a subset of the ones he already knows pretty well, don't get the appreciation they deserve. In any case, definitely a compliment. Regardless of how the sets intersect, telling someone "I don't like you as much as you deserve" is clearly a compliment. It doesn't mean "I don't like you", it means "You deserve to be liked more".
Perhaps in both sentences he refers to the same 50% or less of hobbits. He says he wishes he had gotten to know them better, and that he likes them less than they deserve. If he had spent more time getting to know each of them, he would see their true virtues. So Bilbo I believe pays these hobbits a compliment, mixed with a tinge of regret on his part. Let's not forget what Bilbo was like as a person (quite independent, even eccentric for a hobbit), and that now perhaps he is letting bygones be bygones. He is moving on from the Shire and is sharing this new perspective, or revelation.
Just my personal thoughts. But yes I will agree very ambigious!
Popped up in my feed. Not that big into Lotr but I loved this video
That was fun
This is the hard-hitting analysis I needed
Sure beats watching election coverage, don’t ya think? 😄
@@NerdoftheRings, that bar is not a high one, but you are correct!
Beautiful! Well done!
I actually saw it as a sort of admission of neglect. He knows, most people of the shire deserve to be treated better than he treated them. "I know half of you half as well as I should" "I should have spent more time with you all, when I still could." "And I like half of those only half as much as I should" "and the ones I know, I should have treated better." That's just how it always felt to me. No need to break out the maths for that
Plot twist: the last hobbit is Frodo (from the less than half part). He most likely knows Frodo better than anyone else in the Shire and likes him a lot, so he doesn't fit in either category of the speech.
In the Veggie Tales spoof, Lord of the Beans, "Bilboy" says, "I'm twice as tall as half of you, and half as short as twice of you!" A much less confusing statement since the "Bean of Power" allowed him to adjust his height to be taller than all other "Flobbits". 😂😂😂
Honestly I wasn’t going to watch this video at first but that thumbnail had me cracking up!
Both, but overall a compliment. If his words aren't just to mess with people, which they definitely were at least that, then he genuinely means he feels he hasn't learned to appreciate them as much as he wishes he had.
Sounds a lot like he's just wrapping his lamentations up in a confusing joke, since this is the last day he'll ever spend with people he has known for such a long time and grown somewhat fond of. He'd like to know more about those he doesn't know that well and he wishes he'd appreciated the others more in the time he was given, but instead of any of that, he's faking his death and moving on with his life.
And enjoying every minute of their confusion, because he's still a bit of a trickster.
First time here and I already like you exactly as much as you deserve! :D
You know, I've been puzzling over that for 50 years, but I THINK your explanation makes sense!
There is no debate about this...its simple...he doesnt know half the people there half as well as he should like....(he would liked to have known them better)...and he likes half of them half as well as they deserve...(Those people deserved to be liked more by him than he did...so he was the one at fault for not making their relationship stronger"....Simply The Professor using the English language in his book to make us think about it.
I think the second part is kind of a compliment, too. Bilbo is acknowledging that they deserve to be liked (at least to some extent), and yet he also acknowledges that he personally doesn't give them enough credit.
This is definitely the Nerdiest Nerd video of The Nerd of The Rings.
The implication of the sentence is that he really dislikes some of the people at this party, but also that many of the people he dislikes (up to just under half) are people that he could like more if only he knew them better.
I remember being one of the few people who laughed at this in the theater. What a hilarious statement.
I am really glad you took the time to cover such a trivial topic that really shows the genius of Tolkien.
This video is a gem :)
In my opinion this is a genuine compliment from a man who likes to make people ponder on the subtleties of things. Really interesting line, great vid
It's been about 30 years since I've read any of these books. Can you make a video dedicated to just Sauron? I can't remember any of his origin story; like what he was? A minor god corrupted by power? A troublesome spirit elevated through trickery? Of course I haven't watched all your videos yet (I will over the next few weeks), so if you've already made it, can't wait to see it!
Oh, and I'm a brand new subscriber. I saw your channel and was so relieved because I've always loved these books (I absolutely LOATHE the movies) but haven't read any of them in almost 30 years... I just don't have time to read anymore.
Just the title of the video and the thumbnail made me laugh, great topic
I've turned this speech around in my head a few times over the years.
conclusions cannot be made.
This was very good. Thank you for this video XD
I enjoy your videos so much...
Yo lol 🤣 you just got my sub with your end line 🤣
thank you sooooo much for this video!!!!
The second part is both self-depreciation and a compliment: Bilbo admits to being a grump, a loner and disliking a lot of folk, despite them not deserving that dislike - they are fine people, he's just being a grump and failing to appreciate them as he should. He skips the rest (majority), whom he either likes or dislikes just as he should - or has no opinion.
What's definitely wrong in the analysis is assuming there's no overlap between the two parts - he didn't say "the other half", so there's likely plenty of hobbits he both would like to know better, and doesn't like as much as he should - only knowing them superficially (for a bother they occasionally are) and not in-depth, finding their real value.
Lol, my senior quote.🤣🤣🤣