Taking their time??? If they took their time (assuming a human made this) there wouldn't be so many mistakes with the captions and narrations. The channel owner is just trying to make quick cash. Siri could do a better job narrating this crap.
@@adamshaw8214Are you alright? OG-comment recognised that this is not original audio by asking if AI (Artifical Intelligence) doesn't have an English accent.
So-called "Artificial Intelligence" algorithms apparently can't even tell the difference between the word "third" and "3D" 🙄 Would have thought with all this accelerated learning it's supposed to be doing that would be pretty basic by now @@mikipav1064
This man had to suffer the rest of his life being branded a coward and a liar just from being a survivor. If he’d have stayed he may have died, who can blame him.
And rightfully deserved. Why are you feeling pity for what was the modern day equivalent of a wealthy corporate CEO who's negligent, selfish choices as acting director cost 1500 innocent men women and CHILDREN their lives, while he made sure to get his ass on a lifeboat? His testimony reads like typical evasive corporate garbage to protect himself and his greedy corporation
There were survivors and survivors. Surviving with dignity entailed taking your chances and maybe balancing on an overturned boat for three hours with Officer Lightholler and others. Surviving without dignity was getting into a boat while the firemen and engineers were still down below keeping the lights on, and while hundreds of women and children were still on board. Easy for me to judge here in my cosy room though, but I’d hope to be braver than Ismay. I’ve read stacks about it and if he had his time over, I think Ismay would have wished to have acted differently.
This helps me in my thinking that Ismey was brutally attacked for surviving. For what I have heard, the movie helped to give him a bad image, but he really tried to help passangers to aboard the boats when they didn't want to, and left when he saw no others ocupping a empty space. For me, at least for the moment, is just another survivor that was lucky.
Several male passengers did put other female and children passengers on boats just to be close to them and sneak in when they saw an opening. Ismay wasn't the only one.
Read the book , ''Maiden Voyage'' by Geoffrey Marcus. the best and most detailed reveal I've ever read; coveing every apect of this tragedy. and I have 26 books about the Titanic.
There is sworn testimony from a few survivors who said he was helping people into the boats (encouraging them, etc). On his getting into the lifeboats "We needed an oarsman, everyone [even some men and crew] were on the boat, he volunteered." Him being vilified was a smear campaign and caught on to the Nazi propaganda film about the Titanic, and it continued from them onto later motion picture versions.
A 1911 telegram exists from Ismay to the New York office expressing his desire that Olympic stop arriving early on Tuesday nights. He said he didn’t like passengers wondering which day they would dock and that consistent Wednesday morning arrivals were better than occasionally arriving early.
That doesn't mean much. Arriving early on the maiden voyage means a lot for media coverage. Everybody is paying attention. After that arriving on time is fine. The marketing point has already been made.
@@fiachramaccana280doesnt mean much? Complete contradiction to how his character has been perceived for over 100 years.. It was Smith chasing the headlines
@@dylusional419 Smith was the captain. Not head of marketing. Ismay was in charge of that. But you dont get to be fleet commodore without understanding commercial realities. Look if you want to debate you need to come up with arguments that accord with known facts. Whataboutery is not debate. Not that the Ismay/Smith crybabies care......but....
@@dylusional419 Ismay gave very detailed testimony about Titanic's speed at every stage of the voyage. Clearly he was in close contact with Smith on the speed. They had a detailed plan for speed which did not take the unique conditions of the voyage into account. And they never altered that plan. The only change was to take a more southerly route to avoid ice. Which clearly failed. Not once did we hear a single word about changing the detailed prevoyage speed schedule. Which both had agreed in advance. The changed course proves that Smith knew icebergs were to be avoided. And the failure of Philips to pass on the last 3 ice warnings that showed ice fields directly in front of Titanic even on its changed course was a huge failure. We can argue about what Smith might have done if he had received those specific warnings. I like to think he would have altered course or slowed down. He wasnt a bad guy. But all that does is put more of the blame on Phillips. In the end it was a series of unfortunate events caused by human error....but then again so are most accidents. Ismay/Smith and Philips all took rather reckless risks. California stopped. People argue that this was because it was a cargo ship without the same scheduling pressure. But thats the whole point. Titanic placed arriving on time/early ahead of safety. California made the opposite call. Lord may have screwed up on ignoring distress rockets. But he got the main decision right. It wasnt him speeding at 21 knots through an icefield.... that was Smith.
The good senator must have been playing to the reporters in the audience. He was nearly treating Ismay as a hostile witness. The grilling was rather intense.
Basically, following the William Rudolph Hearst narrative about Ismay. Many inquiries back in those days wanted a villain and, like the Empress of Ireland's sinking, 2 years later, it was purely a whitewash for political reasons overall.
@@SolidAvenger1290 Still, it really didn't help that he tried to essentially flee the country almost immediately after getting there while being (badly) sneaky about it.
@@Davrn54 If you watch Ocealiner Designs video(s) on this, you'll know he essentially thought that any inquiry would be held in the UK, since the ship was built and owned by UK companies. So he wasn't trying to flee the inquiry, rather he was trying to make sure he would make it to it on time
I don't see any unfairness in the line of questioning. While I am sure that Mr. Ismay was still distressed only a day later, his answers were quite coherent and helpful.
He left a bad impression though with certain statements such as no knowledge of the ship's speed as well as of ice warnings Also his image was not helped by the fact that WS reps went to the hospitals where the victims were recovering and tricked them into signing declarations that they wouldn't sue for damages in exchange for 25 pounds
For.context, this sounds like the US inquiry which took place soon after the survivors arrived in NY. There was another inquiry by the British board of trade which was more extensive.
The US inquiry started on April 19th, the day right after the Carpathia's arrival, and it focused on the human side of the disaster. The British inquiry in turn concentrated on the technical side. With that there was no better inquiry but rather the two inquiries actually complemented each other.
Damn I can't believe I haven't seen this. If this is an exact transcript I don't feel like he was bullshitting. I almost feel like he was fucking tramatized.
Ask a silly question expect a silly answer, the correct answer would be water but either way it's blatantly obvious what an iceberg is made of. It's like asking someone : "What's that red stuff called that flows through your veins and arteries"
J. Bruce is NOT the villain of the RMS TITANIC's story. With the TITANIC, there are no villains to be found. It was a tragedy through-and-through and her crew did everything humanly possible to save lives, notify other ships and stations of their distress and keep the lights on over an hour and a half after they should have gone out. While there aren’t villains, there are countless heroes and heroic spotlights to be found during that fateful night/morning. Bruce showed his true colours when he aided people into the boats, only to board the lifeboat when no one else moved for the boat. That’s a display of heroism, even if it’s of minor note in comparison to the likes of Jack Phillips, the RMS Carpathia, Second Officer Lightoller and most especially the engineering crew of the TITANIC.
I believe that at the time it was difficult for people to accept that it was simply "an accident." A cultural aspect lost on us today was at the time most political leaders would have had some form of classical education and would be familiar with the concept of hubris. In their minds it must have happened because someone had the hubris to believe that the ship was perfectly safe (or "unsinkable") and not taken heed of ice warnings. It is easy to see an inevitably disaster in hindsight, but the public wanted someone to blame, and Ismay was made the scapegoat.
The Captain is to blame, he is in full command and everything is his responsibility. He had plenty of information and made very poor decisions. The ship was built fine, operation on the other hand... terrible.
Arrogance and ignorance sank that ship. First from the people saying it was unsinkable, that God Himself couldn't sink it. Then there were MANY warnings about the icebergs straight ahead that were completely ignored and brushed off. One of the officers actually told another ship's officer to "shut up" after he desperately tried to warn about large icebergs directly in the Titanic's path, and coming up fast. Other ships that had tried to warn the Captian, and his officers, stopped their ships for the night because it was too dangerous. The Captain should have known to do the same. The Captian also should have should known that by turning the ship instead of taking the hit head on, it would cause more damage on impact. It was said that had full knowledge of that information and didn't pay it any heed. And then there was the ship whose Captain deliberately ignored the distress signals from the Titanic because he didn't want to be overwhelmed by desperate passengers bombarding his ship. The only ship whose Captian tried to save the passengers in the water, Carpathia, was too late and could only help the people already in the lifeboats. Which brings me to another point. It was completely unforgivable that were not nearly enough lifeboats on the Titanic. Arrogance that the ship couldn't sink was part if the reason for that. There were most definitely people who should have been held accountable for all the lives that were lost that night. Call them villains, or simply negligent, makes no difference to me.
Yes they are The people that make those laws allowing ships got just 1/3 of needed lifeboats. The captain Some oficiales that let lifeboats go with 15/20 passangers.
I will never understand why in the film Titanic by Cameron they dressed him as an evil and a coward person. He was very clear and even the people who he saved them could testify. He survived and anyone of us would think about himself in such chaotic situation.
Cameron simply followed the lead given by W. R. Hearst long ago. Hearst disliked Ismay personally and in business, and used his power over the newspapers to label him 'J. Brute Ismay.' Then as now, those who control the media control the story. Quite sad, however, that James Cameron went along with it.
@@george5590 ANOTR makes him sound a lot more confused and concerned rather than the 1997 movie which makes all his comments sound like he's angry at the crew.
@@georgeworthmore You are gratefully misinformed, he helped as many passengers to get on life both as possible. But it is proven that there were no more passengers or no women in children to be exact around the boat that he got on. You have to remember, Bruce was by all accounts was a passenger on the Titanic. He was not a part of the official crew.
Bruce Ismay was NOT the villain he was portrayed to be and people should definitely do their research before they choose to brand him as a selfish coward who supposedly manipulated Captain Smith into going faster to reach New York despite the ice warnings, only cared about saving himself and was the greedy, evil architect behind the disaster. The films have lied to us greatly! Here are the facts: Ismay was simply traveling as a passenger who had full faith in the captain, the officers and he had no influence over decisions made aboard. He had no desire to reach New York earlier whatsoever (having expressed this regarding the Olympic before) and during the sinking he spent the entire two hours urging women, children and men to enter the lifeboats…. he was rescued on one of the LAST lifeboats after assisting reluctant passengers, there was room for him, there were no other passengers near the boat and he got in……. If he stayed he merely would’ve been one more casualty. After being rescued by the Carpathia, he was in complete shock and utterly broken over the loss of his ship and the lives of so many passengers, he was medicated the entire voyage and according to witnesses expressed regret for having not gone down with the ship. He also had Captain Rostram of the Carpathia prevent the Olympic from coming to collect the survivors to spare them further horror/trauma. I know what you are thinking at this point; he was the one who personally limited the number of lifeboats aboard Titanic ….. Titanic actually carried MORE lifeboats than was legally required at the time….. this applies to ALL ships! They did not see the necessity of excessive numbers of lifeboats because they assumed rescue would always be close enough and the boats could ferry passengers to a rescue ship as had been done during previous disasters. The Titanic disaster finally woke them all up! Unfortunately 1500 innocent people had to die a horrible death to highlight severely outdated regulations imposed by the British Board of Trade for large passenger liners. Ismay was made a villainous scapegoat by the American press (William Randolph Hearst in particular who intensely disliked Ismay) who made up bullshit claims about his actions, even that he had posed as a women to board a lifeboat, because they wanted someone to blame and Ismay was a perfect candidate for that given his status and position. Every single portrayal of Ismay in cinema (even 1997) further adds to this narrative in some way and is entirely wrong and tarnishes the facts. Oceanliner Designs has a whole episode dedicated to Ismay and his time aboard Titanic and how his life and reputation were destroyed by the sinking. If you think I’m a BSer go see for yourself.
The Titanic may've had more boats than required by law but again on the other hand Walter Lord said that shipowners at the time talked Board of Trade members into not mandating full lifeboat capacity .
@@fmyoung No…. 1500 souls had to perish because of outdated regulations and no strict requirements to accommodate all passengers and crew in the event of an emergency evacuation…. Titanic was still within the legal requirements and had 4 extra boats! If those 4 extra boats hadn’t been there….. even more death.
@@carson11100 "No." :-D. . The law was bad it was too lenient it totally went against common sense! :-D (Why do people have to excuse the situation with sth like that, "oh the law at the time"... :-D .)
At 7.50 p.m. on April 14th the SS Mesaba's wireless operator Stanley Adams sent the following ice warning: "To Titanic In Lat. 42 N. to 41.25 Lond 49 W to Long - 50.30 W saw much heavy pack ice and great number large icebergs also field ice. Weather good, clear" The Titanic was inside the rectangle blocked out by this warning.
June 1913, Ismay retired from the presidency of the IMMC. He had made the announcement of his impending retirement in January 1912 as he wanted to allow his old friend Harold Sanderson, the opportunity of holding the most senior position within the company before he too, retired.
Titanic historians and ship builders now believe that even if Titanic had enough lifeboats for everyone, she wouldn't have been able to launch them all. Remember it took an hour after the collision before the first lifeboat was launched. By 2.10am they were still trying to launch the collapsible boats. Imagine if by 2.10am they still had to launch another 20 boats. Those 20 boats would have been mostly destroyed in the final plunge.
You are probably correct. Because the training was hopeless and Captain Smith lost his nerve and gave poor instructions. His officers repeatedly approached him looking for instructions and eventually just took their own decisions. However there are two critical factors. With enough lifeboats Lightholler would have allowed men on the lifeboats. While steerage would have been allowed up to the boat deck earlier before most of the lifeboats had left. Would everybody have been saved? Almost definitely not. Would more have been. Almost definitely yes.
Ismay not only cut the number of lifeboats from 48 to 16, he actively campaigned to discourage treating Titanic as if it were subject to sinking and needing the lifeboats at all. It's little wonder then that Captain Smith canceled the lifeboat drill for the last morning of the Titanic's existence. Don't make self-fulfilling prophecies.
@@egm8602 Ismay did not have any involvement in the number of lifeboats, which was subject to Board of Trade regulations. The designer of the Olympics, Alexander Carlisle, stated that he expected the Board to increase the number in view of the increasing displacement of new liners. He therefore designed the ship for, but not with, 48 lifeboats. As regulations were not changed, the Olympics were equipped with a total of 20 boats. In his evidence, he denied that anyone from White Star had put any pressure on him. By the way, there had been a boat drill in Southampton before Titanicd sailed. Such drills involved the crew only, not passengers.
He did have a lot of information about the sinking if he had gone down with the ship we would have never found out about a lot of it. I get people are mad that he snuck on a boat when so many women and children were still on and sadly had to die but it would of most likely happened if he got on or not especially being the boat was already being lowered while he got on it. I don’t think he was as bad as a man history portrayed him anytime people tell stories they always like to make someone in that story the bad person.
@@joseph.christiansen Lightoller is the villain, he's a fool, he let boats go half full 300 people lost there lives when they could have been saved and mostly from the port side where lightoller was they should have been 1200 who died not 1496. It's lightoller fault he even told young 14 year old to get out of the boats then they were launched with empty spaces. He should have been sent to prison for what he did it's disgraceful. Philips isn't much better the fool.
Haha you're joking right??? They cut corners in the building of the boat in Belfast to the objections of Thomas Andrews. He persuaded the captain to go faster due to the lack of coal in the bunkers based on a fire in Belfast dock that was raised by the workers. That's why it went so fast because if it maintained a lower speed and ran out of coal it would have been bad for business stranded in the ocean. Look up the addergooole 14 documentary. 14 young men and women from county Mayo, Ireland, travelled third class and only 3 girls survived. While they were in bed weak and traumatised, white star line which he was MD of, sent men to the girls bed side for them to sign a document saying they settle for 25 pounds and take all blame of white star line yet... the girls who were ill were told by the men, sign this, its just confirmation this was your ticket. Never let the girls read the paper after wakening them up in hospital. They were delirious, Had PTSD and didn't know what was going on. He jumped on a boat to save himself while women and children weren't on boats. This is all factual btw. Do some actual research about the hidden truth about the disaster, the cover up too and then come back and say you dont vilify him you nob. He disappeared from the public with embarrassment and lived in Ireland then died. So if he was so innocent and everything was honky dory....why do that? and why not allow the men from the Belfast ship yard to testify at hearing about the cut corners and why would he have allowed the "judge appointed by the white star line"(complete conflict of interest if there ever was one) to not allow their evidence in the trial or union to speak. You really know very little to then say "I do NOT vilify him" simp comes to my mind about you. Do research. Know your stuff.
He suggested to the Captain to speed up the ship. It was the Captain who made that decision to speed up. It was the radio operator that ignored the ice warnings and the Captain of the Californian who ignored the Titianic.
The wireless operators didn't just ignore the warnings. They were overworked and overloaded with message traffic, unfortunately it 'slipped through the cracks'. They had their set power turned all the way up for maximum broadcast range. When a warning came from a nearby ship, it nearly deafened them because of their sets amplification. He told them to shut up because of his knee jerk reaction.
@@phillydelphia8760 And of course Jack and Harold both acted very brave by staying at their posts right until the last minutes before the ship took her final plunge. Literally water about to our into their cabin before they left
@@johnking5174 name the historians and the sources. Book/page number etc.... The witness was reliable and had no obvious axe to grind. She simply reported what she overheard.
@@johnking5174 Arguably Jack stayed because he knew he was more than partly to blame for the accident. By not forwarding the Mesaba ice warning. And blocking out the Californian ice warning. They were critical warnings because they showed the Titanic was right in the middle of a large ice field. Other ice warnings were not as important given locations etc. Like Captain Smith he knew he would be blamed for screwing up. He had honour I will give him that. But he had no future. As for guts that's debatable. True guts would have been to face up to the consequences of his mistakes. Harald stayed cos Jack was his boss. And I will give him bravery also as he had done no wrong.
My God, did they ever crucify this man almost everything you hear or read about Bruce Ismay is an absolute lie due to people being jealous of his wealth and success the fact of the matter is, the man helped as many people as he could, and then stepped into a lifeboat just when there was no one else was around just as you or I would act. He was nothing but compassionate and helpful to any survivor after everything was said and done he actually went above and beyond only to be unfairly judged in history, including in James Cameron‘s movie. If you want to know, the real story of him, go, watch the videos on ocean liner designs channel…
Well he sent a message asking White Star in New York to hold this ship the Cedric until he and the crew came so they could go on back home to England as soon as possible. That in itself was already suspicious. He made it look even more so by signing the message "Yamsi" his last name spelled backwards.
This is incredible, thank you for taking all this time and turning this into a sort of audio book! I always prefer listening to stuff so this is very welcome, great job! Also you can really sea Mr. Ismay's grief in a pictures of the inquiry.
Thank you so much for your words! To be honest, it was really hard to put it all together, although only a few people will apreciate it. I'm glad you're one of them, enjoy it!
The Titanic's troubles begin with her very name. Titanic is the adjective for Titan, and the Titans in Greek mythology were a race who waged war against Zeus, the so-called "god of gods." This is the part of the story that seems familiar to quite a few. The part that seems unknown to most, shipowners at the time included, is that - guess what - the Titans lost. So, the Titanic was eventually defeated by her very name, as it were - and during her maiden voyage, at that .
I think Ismay bore the brunt of blame. Who would not take a place in a lifeboat in similar circumstances. Doubtless had EJ Smith or Wilde have survived they would have taken his place or been scapegoats with him. Ismay was instrumental in seeing the survivors and next-of-kin were looked after following the sinking. Rarely is that mentioned.
That’s a very good point. This was the time when if you lost your family in a shipwreck I think the response was a minuscule fraction of what it might be now. Can’t imagine Ismay being a higher target than EJ Smith or Wilde. Turner of Lusitania was hunted relentlessly by the Admiralty and he had no hand in launching a salvo of torpedoes at his own ship.
Well he was guilty of deciding against full lifeboat capacity. As he stepped into Collapsible C he knew that hundreds would be left on board with no chance of escape.
They know the wireless operator jack Phillips caused the wreck by not relaying warnings to the captain. He cursed out the operator of the closest boat the Californian.
@@fmyoung im pretty sure it wasnt even him that decided that actually, he was the owner of a company not the designer of one ship, id have to rewatch ocean liner designs video on him tho
You get the feeling from the US hearing that they had already made up their mind about Ismay, and all of the questioning was done to try and expose him as a coward, a liar and a businessman who wanted to achieve speed over safety. That is not a fair assessment of Ismay. The man has had too much mud thrown at him over the last 112 years.
2nd-class passenger Lawrence Beesley was among the few if not the only one who noticed that the Titanic had a very slight list to port throughout the voyage. He was probably a very observant person.
Kind of a shame what happened to him it was a no win scenario for him. Sadly the White Star Line kind of went with him. From what I read he did all the charitiibly could and put forth the upgrades to Olympic and Britannic before he resigned. What could have been had not the Titanic sunk.
He was taking his time in the questioning of Ismay; he didn't want to rush through anything. I have to say that America really had a right to investigate; the tragedy did after all involve US jurisdiction and because the IMM bought White Star in 1902 the Titanic was American-owned.
@@michaelspoto8720 There was of course no Jack and Rose romance on the Titanic but there was a Jack Thayer in 1st class (not 3rd) and a Rhoda Mary “Rosa” (not Rose) Abbott (née Hunt) in 3rd class (not 1st). They both survived the sinking
You know, people say the ship wasnt going at full speed, which was 78. He stated "She works up to 80". So which one is it? 78 or 80? I mean, yes, she wasn't going at full speed, but damn near it! If its pitch black on the horizon, due to a moonless night, and navigating through a maze of iceburgs' Why didnt the Capt slow it down to 70, or 65? Could have meant the difference between avoiding collision. How irresponsible on the Capt's part. He wasnt putting the safety of the passengers first. JB stated there no need to arrive at New York before 5am. Why rush? I blame the disaster on the Capt.
Not "Males and passengers" it's supposed to be "mails and passengers" as the Titanic was part of the Royal Mail Service, where the name RMS Titanic comes from. The ship was loaded with a fair bit of letters and parcels to be delivered across the US.
It doesn't help Ismay's image as I heard from Sam Pence (Historic Travels) that White Star, in an effort to avoid lawsuits, sent representatives to hospitals where victims were recovering and tricked them into signing declarations that they wouldn't sue for damages, in exchange for 25 pounds. That's downright obscene.
However often you repeat this nonsense, it still will not make it true. I recall asking you for your source on several occasions. You have not so far managed to supply it. I wonder why not? Perhaps because the idea of 'Non-Disclosure Agreements' only dates back to the 1940s?
@@dovetonsturdee7033 "However often you repeat this nonsense, it still will not make it true. I recall asking you for your source on several occasions. You have not so far managed to supply it. I wonder why not? Perhaps because the idea of 'Non-Disclosure Agreements' only dates back to the 1940s?"
The problem with Bruce Ismay is that he rejected the shipbuilder's suggestion to add more lifeboats as he didn't want to spoil the view from the first class promenade deck. That decision turned out to be fatal and cost hundreds of lives. His decision was in line with the outdated Board of Trade rules but not in line with the direction that shipbuilders wanted to move towards. The davits on the Titanic could handle total of 64 lifeboats but only 20 lifeboats were placed on the ship. In other words the shipbuilders designed the ship for there to be enough lifeboats for all. So there was no design issue here in terms of adding more lifeboats. That is a very significant point as it shows what they were thinking and also the direction in which the whole industry was moving. So while he was wrongly vilified for surviving when so many other men didn't his real error was at the design stage. He didn't take safety as seriously as others did. And therefore that was his real "crime" so to speak.
But would they have had time to fill more lifeboats if they existed? They couldn’t fill all the existing ones before it went down so I’m genuinely wondering if more would have been used…
@@Jennifer-ls5ke it wasnt a time issue. It was a poor trainimg issue due to lack of trust on davits. Had they trained properly they would have known the davits could easily handle fully loaded boats
Your first statement has no basis in fact. It is a common misconception that Ismay rejected more lifeboats. The davits were designed to hold 64 IF REQUIRED, but the board of trade regulations had not been updated in over 15 years. Google "BIG ships and small boats" by Mark Chirnside and it gives fascinating detail into the real reasons behind Titanics lifeboat capacity, which actually exceeded requirements.
@@cardiffgiant9406 Your entire statement has no basis in fact. Everybody knows what the Board of Trade regulations were. Everybody also knows that the ship's designers built davits to hold 64 lifeboats. And everybody except you knows that Ismay as managing director of the shipping line since 1899 rejected this. From Quora : "The lifeboats. It’s true that Ismay was the person who decided to reduce Titanic’s complement of lifeboats from 48 to 16 (plus four collapsible lifeboats), the legal minimum required for a ship of Titanic’s tonnage. From Encylopedia Titanica: "When Ismay and the other board members rejected the extra lifeboats, Carlisle meekly signed off on the decision" From Historic UK history magazine Due to his position within The White Star Line, Ismay was one of the first passengers to be informed about the grievous damage the iceberg had dealt the ship - and nobody understood the precarious position they were now in better than Ismay. After all, it was he who had reduced the number of lifeboats from 48 to 16 (plus 4 smaller ‘Collapsible’ Engelhardt boats), the minimum standard required by the Board of Trade. A tragic decision that must have weighed heavily on Ismay’s mind that cold April night So stop talking nonsense and trolling people who have done their research. And read something for once in your life!!
About the role of lifeboats as "ferries" between the stricken ship and the rescue ship (so that there was "no need" to have "boats for all") I think the trouble with that approach is by the time the "ferries" made one trip and came back the stricken ship might've been in a far more precarious situation if not already beneath the water. So with a full lifeboat complement and a nice and properly trained crew it would've all been more effective and faster everyone would've been evacuated at the same time. The normally stormy North Atlantic is no place for such "ferries" especially if the crew had to row (the boats weren't motorized) the poor crew would've for sure been exhausted from rowing in choppy waters. That night the sea was "like a millpond" (Ruth Becker) and it seems largely forgotten that this is really the exception on the North Atlantic. (And the very fact that it was so calm makes it very easy for people now to think of lifeboats as "ferries") Also the word was spread at the time that the North Atlantic run was so busy "there were always other ships nearby if anything happens." The Titanic was doubtless no exception the Californian was only 10mi away or most probably less than that (donkey boilerman Ernest Gill and carpenter James McGregor saw the Titanic's distress rockets very plainly as did the officers), but then (a) she was the one and only ship really close and (b) Cpt Lord just wouldn't do anything (not even wake up Cyril Evans just a few steps away and have him check on the situation). And then apart from the Californian all the other ships contacted by Phillips and Bride were much further away. After all, the Carpathia was no fewer than 58mi from the scene so she needed 3.5hrs she didn't get there until 1h40min after the Titanic slid beneath the water. So what good is a ship nice and nearby if the captain just won't bother? The ferry approach to lifeboats is just a lame post-disaster excuse.
Senator Smith is just pounding away at Ismay as though he was privy to what officers, the captain, crew or passengers said or did. He was a passenger, not there to evaluate or observe everything and Smith knew that. Brutal non stop questioning. It's amazing Ismay didn't commit suicide.
Ismay sank the Titanic. He drove the decision process that reduced the number of lifeboats, lowered the bulkheads, then pushed the captain to speed, at night, against warnings, through an area littered with icebergs. Then he took a scarce seat in a lifeboat while hundreds of women and children were still being held back on the ship. His testimony provided nothing unique. He most certainly should have gone down with the ship. As a survivor, he should have been exiled.
@@egm8602What part of Ismay was a passenger, NOT making any decisions while on board Titanic don't you understand? You keep perpetuating blame that he caused the sinking like you were there. Malarkey.
It's amazing to think we have these records at all. I mean how on earth did they capture them? I've never seen anyone write that fast. Unless they had typewriters.
Court stenographers are taught to take a transcription at that sort of speed. The either use shorthand, or a stenographer machine, which has five keys (or is it ten, once for each hand?). In any event, there are those who are trained to take down such remarks accurately at a normal speaking speed.
Poor Ismay. It is sad but the mentality, even today, is that if you were not a woman or a child you are a coward and even if you survived by sheer happenstance oftentimes you are still branded a coward.
In most cases you would, in fact, be a coward. But the pandemonium of the sinking did not present a normal case. Ismay did nothing wrong, anymore than the sailors who at the end tried to launch collapsibles for themselves.
@@nickcharles1284I agree, but don’t. If you flee to safety and you’re not doing anything to impede others to do the same, woman or child, you’re not a coward. If you’re trying to save your own skin and do it at the expense intentionally of a child, then you’re a coward.
Thinking about the lifeboats' role as "ferries" between the stricken ship and the rescue ship (so that there was "no need" for a full lifeboat complement) I think the trouble with that is by the time the "ferries" made one trip and came back the stricken ship might've been in a far more precarious situation if not already beneath the water. So with a full lifeboat complement and a properly trained crew it would've all been more effective and faster everyone would've been evacuated at the same time. The normally stormy North Atlantic is no place for such "ferries" especially if the crew had to row (the boats weren't motorized) the crew would've for sure been exhausted from rowing in choppy waters. That night the sea was most unusually calm and it seems largely forgotten that this is really the exception on the North Atlantic. (And the very fact that it was so calm makes it very easy for people now to think of lifeboats as "ferries") Also the word was spread at the time that the North Atlantic run was so busy "there were always other ships nearby if anything happens." The Titanic was really no exception as the Californian was only 10mi away or most probably less than that (donkey boilerman Ernest Gill and carpenter James McGregor saw the Titanic's distress rockets very plainly as did the officers), but then (a) she was the one and only ship really close and (b) Cpt Lord just wouldn't bother helping. And then apart from the Californian all the other ships contacted by Phillips and Bride were much further away. After all, the Carpathia was no fewer than 58mi away so she needed 3.5hrs to make it to the scene and she didn't get there until 1h40min after the Titanic slid beneath the water. In closing what's the use of a nearby ship if the captain doesn't go help?
I wish he could see today how his name has been cleared in the eyes of most. I don't know what books or documentaries James Cameron came across but he really blew it with that damn movie. In more ways than one. If there isn't a disclaimer at the beginning when you stream Titanic, about blatantly inaccurate details in regards to non fictional characters, there really should be.
William Randolph Hearst and his yellow journalism had a lot to do with it. Along with a conversation that a woman overheard about the ship’s performance and progress that was misquoted and disseminated.
Did they take the southern route after the ice was reported? This was my understanding, that by going south they would avoid the ice debris field, the ice had drifted south obviously.
Most of them still weren't grasping the seriousness of the situation. Many people were still reluctant to leave. Until all the boats were gone, people still believed nothing would happen. Ismay's vicinity had no women and children. Only crew members. Its confirmed by Quartermaster Rowe's testimony.
@@gokulgopan4397 Women and children around or no Ismay knew it was wrong not to have provided boats for all whether or not that was common procedure back then
@@fmyoung it wasn't his decision. It was board of trade. The safety equipments were passed on the advisory committee meeting in 1910 as part of a joint decision. None of the liners at the time had enough for all (because it was the norm). There has been several incidents like Republic sinking where ferrying passengers was a success. It just reassured everyone that it would work. Titanic happened to be the one that got in a situation no one foresaw and had to go down to show how outdated the regulations were. Apparently, there was a increase in 39% lifeboat capacity in the final design than the initial Design D. markchirnside.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Titanic_Lifeboat_Increase.pdf
J. Bruce Ismay did technically supply more lifeboats than required by the Board of Trade (though just a handful more) but then there's Google which still says that he was the one who "in a move that would become highly controversial" decided to limit the number of lifeboats on the Olympic and Titanic to 16, even though the davits could accommodate 48 (the number strongly advocated for by Alexander M. Carlisle of Harland & Wolff). Ismay justified his decision by saying that the ship itself was a lifeboat so there was no need to clutter the deck. (How did he know that his ship was its own lifeboat if he wasn't the shipbuilder I wonder.) And then there's Walter Lord who said that the Board of Trade section responsible for lifeboat capacity was dominated by the shipowners themselves they wanted to utilize the space for more 1st-class amenities (instead of "cluttering it with - of all things - lifeboats."). With that, Lord said, the shipowners "knew exactly where they stood on the issue, and they didn't want boats for all." Ismay tried to evade American jurisdiction by sending a message to the White Star offices in New York and asking them to hold this other ship the Cedric until he and the crew came so they could go back to England as soon as possible. To that he added "Propose returning on [the Cedric] myself." He made the message look even more suspicious by signing it "Yamsi" his last name spelled backwards. Congress heard about it through the USS Chester though and Sen Smith was able to form his subcommittee to investigate the disaster. The ferry approach to lifeboats is just a lame post-disaster excuse. It's all you have to do to remember that the North Atlantic was most unusually calm that night it was "like a millpond" (Ruth Becker).
William Randolph Hearst had a grudge against Ismay. The story repeated the most is that Ismay had once stonewalled Hearst in regards to another ship sinking in New York Harbor. Ismay allegedly refused to answer questions about it, which led to Hearst holding a grudge for years. When Titanic sank, Hearst used his news empire to push these stories of Ismay being a coward.
@@Fernando5455Jr I think there was already steamships in the 1870s but they also still had sails like windjammers. One that I know about the SS Great Eastern was completed in August 1859 and her maiden voyage was later that same month on the 30th
Ismay did not tell the whole story of what he saw. Listening to him you would think he was just a passenger and not one who's ship was going down. He saw more then he is saying. What he was doing was to cover himself. The idea that he saw no other passengers on the deck is to far fetched for me. That he saw no other passengers fighting is another lie. I do believe him when he said he saw another ship. There was another that did not come to the rescue but was never identified until now.
Shipbuilder Magazine said of WS's new superliners that they were "practically unsinkable" but somewhere in the retelling (early into it I'm sure) the adverb was dropped and everyone just went and said they were unsinkable
Mr. Ismay seems to get a bad rap. Everything he's stated is absolutely true and he's not hiding anything at all. Very straightforward with all his answers. What's odd is that so soon after the accident that even he knew that if the Titanic would've just hit the iceberg straight on, it would've been fine. (Fine, meaning it would've stayed afloat).
He told Sen Smith he had no knowledge about the ship's progress let alone ice warnings (there were no fewer than six of them on the 14th alone). Cpt Smith handed him a warning from the Baltic (instead of posting it on the bridge for his officers to read....) - so, Ismay totally knew .
And no-one should be obliged to die on a sinking ship for no reason whatsoever but pride and silly expectations. Him staying on that ship to die would've served no purpose for anyone.
Well, honor used to be a thing, saving children before yourself used to be a thing. He was the managing director of the white star line, which owned the titanic. A whole lot of children died of hypothermia or drowned that night. I don't fault him for saving his own life but I get why it made people angry. Also I don't believe his testimony that the deck was empty and there were no other passengers waiting to get in lifeboats.
The problem was there wasn’t enough life boats which was the problem and he thought the ship was unsinkable. Not fully his fault except for the life boat situations
This is why AI sucks. I stopped this video after about 20 seconds of those awful fake voices. But on the subject of Ismay, he wasn't quite the villain some people made him out to be. Cameron's movie portrayed him and others in a very poor light. He should have been more sensitive when featuring real historical characters in his movies.
Well the disaster did involve American territorial waters and there were American passengers on board so America had every right to investigate. Besides J P Morgan's IMM bought White Star in 1902 so the Titanic was American-owned.
Lightoller too? I know he asked Boxhall and Lowe Boxhall told Sen Smith "some people tell me they have seen rocks and things of that sort in them" and Lowe smirked and said "Ice I suppose sir"
I'm in partial disagreement on these posts. Bruce Ismay was the Chairman the White Star Line and a survivor of the Titanic, yes. He repeatedly said "I think, I don't remember". How do you not recall that traumatic event? However, He should have had much more common sense to have had more life boats across the board on the worlds largest ship in 1912. Or maybe 100 years ago they were just naive after over 2,000 + ships were lost at sea? Just in a 500 year period.. Come on...really? He thought his construction was just so good and what happened in the past could no happen again - it's all about the money and the tickets they could sell. You can disagree, but riddle me this..why have a boat that size and not have life boats to carry ALL of them off - Just in Case?
Titanic was equipped with a brand new lifeboat davit that can easily accommodate *two* row of boats in case of one, but as of that time the regulations still limit the lifeboat capacity to 16. The rule would eventually have been implemented, of course, but Titanic’s sinking emphasized on the urgency of the matter. Very tragic
Arrogance. They wanted to destroy their rivals especially Cunard by having the entire ship perceived as a unsinkable lifeboat. So having lifeboats in deck would have been a contradiction to them. Warped thinking.
What difference would more lifeboats make? They didn't have enough time to load and launch the boats they had, more boats in the way would have probably slowed down the evacuation and spread the crew out further, costing more lives
The first hearings in the US a couple of days after were the only ones of historical value. 6 months later back in the UK, it was a finger pointing mission and bickering about how well built she was & not breaking in 2 like so many testimonies stated.
There is some question as to why America thought it had a right to inquire into the disaster. White Star was British but it was after all bought by IMM in 1902 so apart from soliciting American business the Titanic was American-owned she carried American passengers and the survivors and crew all went to New York.
@@carlousmagus5387 I'm not downplaying the interesting human and technical story, or why people seek details..But in the main, the why and how is completely straight forward and well understood. The captain immediately understood the cost of his folly, and the builder made the calculation based on damage in minutes. The ship hit a massive object at speed. No rivets or steel type would have made a difference.
It was a clumsy question. He may have said, “ What material might an iceberg contain that might render it more difficult to see, especially at night” You see the ice in our freezer at home is made up of clear clean water. Ice in nature is likely to include rocks, solid mud, plant growth and the like and if the berg flipped over it might be showing a “dark” side to an approaching ship and not the clean white sight we are used to seeing. Hence it would be more camouflaged.
I think that Lightoller was the ultimate villain. He refused entry into the lifeboats of men, even when there were no women around. How many men could have been saved? Also, They could’ve stuffed those boats with another 500 passengers. Lots of mistakes were made before, during, and after the collision…
Just can't believe the answer Lightoller gave to question 14197 at the British inquiry Can you suggest at all how it can have come about that this iceberg should not have been seen at a greater distance? - It is very difficult indeed to come to any conclusion. Of course, we know now the extraordinary combination of circumstances that existed at that time which you would not meet again once in 100 years; that they should all have existed just on that particular night shows, of course, that everything was against us. That's not a ship's officer, that's a teen. He was the 2nd officer so we're talking someone with vast experience on the North Atlantic. What an example to set to the junior officers. The court wasn't impressed either and the message seemed to be, as Walter Lord put it so well, that the accident was of the one-in-a-million variety. I think it was rather of the preventable variety .
As a private investigator I can tell you that repeating a question back to a witness is not unusual. I helps to make sure the witness understood the question fully and to see if he answers differently.
@@igregmartDoesn’t mean the one on the receiving end, especially if they’re being truthful, wouldn’t be irritated by it. Just listening to it I got annoyed. I hate having to repeat myself, and I hate hearing people say the same thing over again.
And it doesn't help his image that White Star sent representatives to hospitals where victims were recovering and tricked them into signing declarations that they wouldn't sue for damages in exchange for 25 pounds. That's downright obscene
Or that’s how he saw it. There’s a reason why eyewitness testimony has its detractors. People could see the same thing and have two very different conclusions as to what they saw.
There were no one else around willing to get in. He looked for women/children/men willing to take a spot but none did. He was not the last seat in the lifeboat but his lifeboat was very much under capacity. He spent the whole time of the sinking making sure women and children were getting into the boats and only at the very end did he finally get in. The movies villanized Ismay, much like James Cameron's film did Murdoch dirty.
@@MrBaritone38 A lot of the lifeboats were launched not to capacity, including Ismay’s. It was being lowered and when he saw no women or children around and no one else was getting in he took the one of the seats. Plus despite many people’s misconceptions it wouldn’t have mattered if there were enough lifeboats for everyone. There simply wasn’t enough time to launch all the boats. The last launched wasn’t even technically launched, instead it floated away and was nearly pulled under due to suction/undertow.
@@MrBaritone38because it was a massive ship, a number of the passengers stayed below, and a number of the passengers hesitated to get into the lifeboats in the first place, there were no more passengers in the area, hence Ismay got in. The world isn’t black and white; a number of the lifeboats launched were actually underfilled, so by your logic, why didn’t they have more women and children?
They kept it close to the vest that the ship was sinking to avoid causing a panic. Ismay knew she was doomed. He should have tried harder to rescue more people. He sure made sure his butt was saved. I know the newspaper magnate hated him but he wasn’t totally off base.
Thanks for taking the time to do this! This was so interesting and glad I didn't have to read to follow along!
Thank you!! I'm glad you liked it!
Taking their time??? If they took their time (assuming a human made this) there wouldn't be so many mistakes with the captions and narrations. The channel owner is just trying to make quick cash. Siri could do a better job narrating this crap.
Ismay had an English accent. AI doesnt have that?
This is not a recording of the actual conversation
@@adamshaw8214Are you alright? OG-comment recognised that this is not original audio by asking if AI (Artifical Intelligence) doesn't have an English accent.
So-called "Artificial Intelligence" algorithms apparently can't even tell the difference between the word "third" and "3D" 🙄 Would have thought with all this accelerated learning it's supposed to be doing that would be pretty basic by now @@mikipav1064
I'm glad you've taken such an interest in this important, if not critical, issue.
AI doesn't. It's programmed by human. With all the human frailties 😮
This man had to suffer the rest of his life being branded a coward and a liar just from being a survivor. If he’d have stayed he may have died, who can blame him.
And rightfully deserved. Why are you feeling pity for what was the modern day equivalent of a wealthy corporate CEO who's negligent, selfish choices as acting director cost 1500 innocent men women and CHILDREN their lives, while he made sure to get his ass on a lifeboat?
His testimony reads like typical evasive corporate garbage to protect himself and his greedy corporation
There were survivors and survivors. Surviving with dignity entailed taking your chances and maybe balancing on an overturned boat for three hours with Officer Lightholler and others. Surviving without dignity was getting into a boat while the firemen and engineers were still down below keeping the lights on, and while hundreds of women and children were still on board. Easy for me to judge here in my cosy room though, but I’d hope to be braver than Ismay. I’ve read stacks about it and if he had his time over, I think Ismay would have wished to have acted differently.
@@bernie4268 Lightoller? He let boats go half full.
@@paulanthony5274 That should constitute a fault of duty on his part to allow lifeboats to leave a sinking ship less than full
@@fmyoung Certainly sir.
This helps me in my thinking that Ismey was brutally attacked for surviving. For what I have heard, the movie helped to give him a bad image, but he really tried to help passangers to aboard the boats when they didn't want to, and left when he saw no others ocupping a empty space. For me, at least for the moment, is just another survivor that was lucky.
Well, it would be convenient for him to answer in such way, though.
Several male passengers did put other female and children passengers on boats just to be close to them and sneak in when they saw an opening. Ismay wasn't the only one.
😂😂😂
Read the book , ''Maiden Voyage'' by Geoffrey Marcus. the best and most detailed reveal I've ever read; coveing every apect of this tragedy. and I have 26 books about the Titanic.
There is sworn testimony from a few survivors who said he was helping people into the boats (encouraging them, etc). On his getting into the lifeboats "We needed an oarsman, everyone [even some men and crew] were on the boat, he volunteered." Him being vilified was a smear campaign and caught on to the Nazi propaganda film about the Titanic, and it continued from them onto later motion picture versions.
Thanks so much for this amazing piece of history brought to life! This is truly incredible!
Thank you! Glad you like it!! 🤗
Do more of these . Found it fascinating
WTF is wrong with you? The captions and narration were AWFUL.
A 1911 telegram exists from Ismay to the New York office expressing his desire that Olympic stop arriving early on Tuesday nights. He said he didn’t like passengers wondering which day they would dock and that consistent Wednesday morning arrivals were better than occasionally arriving early.
I never knew that.
That doesn't mean much.
Arriving early on the maiden voyage means a lot for media coverage. Everybody is paying attention.
After that arriving on time is fine. The marketing point has already been made.
@@fiachramaccana280doesnt mean much? Complete contradiction to how his character has been perceived for over 100 years..
It was Smith chasing the headlines
@@dylusional419 Smith was the captain. Not head of marketing. Ismay was in charge of that. But you dont get to be fleet commodore without understanding commercial realities. Look if you want to debate you need to come up with arguments that accord with known facts. Whataboutery is not debate. Not that the Ismay/Smith crybabies care......but....
@@dylusional419 Ismay gave very detailed testimony about Titanic's speed at every stage of the voyage. Clearly he was in close contact with Smith on the speed. They had a detailed plan for speed which did not take the unique conditions of the voyage into account. And they never altered that plan. The only change was to take a more southerly route to avoid ice. Which clearly failed. Not once did we hear a single word about changing the detailed prevoyage speed schedule. Which both had agreed in advance. The changed course proves that Smith knew icebergs were to be avoided. And the failure of Philips to pass on the last 3 ice warnings that showed ice fields directly in front of Titanic even on its changed course was a huge failure. We can argue about what Smith might have done if he had received those specific warnings. I like to think he would have altered course or slowed down. He wasnt a bad guy. But all that does is put more of the blame on Phillips.
In the end it was a series of unfortunate events caused by human error....but then again so are most accidents. Ismay/Smith and Philips all took rather reckless risks. California stopped. People argue that this was because it was a cargo ship without the same scheduling pressure. But thats the whole point. Titanic placed arriving on time/early ahead of safety. California made the opposite call. Lord may have screwed up on ignoring distress rockets. But he got the main decision right. It wasnt him speeding at 21 knots through an icefield.... that was Smith.
The good senator must have been playing to the reporters in the audience. He was nearly treating Ismay as a hostile witness. The grilling was rather intense.
Basically, following the William Rudolph Hearst narrative about Ismay. Many inquiries back in those days wanted a villain and, like the Empress of Ireland's sinking, 2 years later, it was purely a whitewash for political reasons overall.
@@SolidAvenger1290 Still, it really didn't help that he tried to essentially flee the country almost immediately after getting there while being (badly) sneaky about it.
@@Davrn54 If you watch Ocealiner Designs video(s) on this, you'll know he essentially thought that any inquiry would be held in the UK, since the ship was built and owned by UK companies. So he wasn't trying to flee the inquiry, rather he was trying to make sure he would make it to it on time
I don't see any unfairness in the line of questioning. While I am sure that Mr. Ismay was still distressed only a day later, his answers were quite coherent and helpful.
@@igregmart The majority of the questions were pointless and asinine.
Blaming Ismay for the Titanic sinking is like blaming Henry Ford because I drove my Mustang into a tree.
He left a bad impression though with certain statements such as no knowledge of the ship's speed as well as of ice warnings Also his image was not helped by the fact that WS reps went to the hospitals where the victims were recovering and tricked them into signing declarations that they wouldn't sue for damages in exchange for 25 pounds
@@fmyoung Sounds like many proprietors or insurance companies today (don't sue waivers).
@fmyoung: Didn't stop them suing though did it? The court cases tumbled on for years!
@@TA-to7ktthe 1997 movie is not a good source of facts.
Why, because James Cameron said so? lol
For.context, this sounds like the US inquiry which took place soon after the survivors arrived in NY.
There was another inquiry by the British board of trade which was more extensive.
Is that one on RUclips perchance.?
The US inquiry started on April 19th, the day right after the Carpathia's arrival, and it focused on the human side of the disaster. The British inquiry in turn concentrated on the technical side. With that there was no better inquiry but rather the two inquiries actually complemented each other.
Damn I can't believe I haven't seen this. If this is an exact transcript I don't feel like he was bullshitting. I almost feel like he was fucking tramatized.
It's exact transcript
@@titanictreasurescan you do that for the other witnesses like Officer Lightoller.?
I hope you do the testimony of Lowe too where he and Ismay argued during the hearing about the fact Lowe told him to "go to hell".
Lowe told Ismay to “get the hell out of the way” after Ismay yelled “ Lower away! Lower away!”
I have a feeling Lowe was a very direct person
Smith asked Fifth officer Lowe what an iceberg was made of. Lowe replied, "Ice."
Great answer!
😅
Ask a silly question expect a silly answer, the correct answer would be water but either way it's blatantly obvious what an iceberg is made of. It's like asking someone : "What's that red stuff called that flows through your veins and arteries"
Lowe actually replied "Ice I suppose sir"
@@paulanthony5274 I have a feeling Lowe was a very direct person
J. Bruce is NOT the villain of the RMS TITANIC's story. With the TITANIC, there are no villains to be found. It was a tragedy through-and-through and her crew did everything humanly possible to save lives, notify other ships and stations of their distress and keep the lights on over an hour and a half after they should have gone out.
While there aren’t villains, there are countless heroes and heroic spotlights to be found during that fateful night/morning.
Bruce showed his true colours when he aided people into the boats, only to board the lifeboat when no one else moved for the boat. That’s a display of heroism, even if it’s of minor note in comparison to the likes of Jack Phillips, the RMS Carpathia, Second Officer Lightoller and most especially the engineering crew of the TITANIC.
I believe that at the time it was difficult for people to accept that it was simply "an accident." A cultural aspect lost on us today was at the time most political leaders would have had some form of classical education and would be familiar with the concept of hubris. In their minds it must have happened because someone had the hubris to believe that the ship was perfectly safe (or "unsinkable") and not taken heed of ice warnings.
It is easy to see an inevitably disaster in hindsight, but the public wanted someone to blame, and Ismay was made the scapegoat.
The Captain is to blame, he is in full command and everything is his responsibility.
He had plenty of information and made very poor decisions. The ship was built fine, operation on the other hand... terrible.
That's fair. Even the Captain whose ultimately To blame, maintains his honor by going down with the ahip. This guy, didn't have to do that.
Arrogance and ignorance sank that ship. First from the people saying it was unsinkable, that God Himself couldn't sink it. Then there were MANY warnings about the icebergs straight ahead that were completely ignored and brushed off. One of the officers actually told another ship's officer to "shut up" after he desperately tried to warn about large icebergs directly in the Titanic's path, and coming up fast.
Other ships that had tried to warn the Captian, and his officers, stopped their ships for the night because it was too dangerous. The Captain should have known to do the same. The Captian also should have should known that by turning the ship instead of taking the hit head on, it would cause more damage on impact. It was said that had full knowledge of that information and didn't pay it any heed.
And then there was the ship whose Captain deliberately ignored the distress signals from the Titanic because he didn't want to be overwhelmed by desperate passengers bombarding his ship. The only ship whose Captian tried to save the passengers in the water, Carpathia, was too late and could only help the people already in the lifeboats. Which brings me to another point. It was completely unforgivable that were not nearly enough lifeboats on the Titanic.
Arrogance that the ship couldn't sink was part if the reason for that. There were most definitely people who should have been held accountable for all the lives that were lost that night. Call them villains, or simply negligent, makes no difference to me.
Yes they are
The people that make those laws allowing ships got just 1/3 of needed lifeboats.
The captain
Some oficiales that let lifeboats go with 15/20 passangers.
I will never understand why in the film Titanic by Cameron they dressed him as an evil and a coward person. He was very clear and even the people who he saved them could testify. He survived and anyone of us would think about himself in such chaotic situation.
Cameron simply followed the lead given by W. R. Hearst long ago. Hearst disliked Ismay personally and in business, and used his power over the newspapers to label him 'J. Brute Ismay.'
Then as now, those who control the media control the story. Quite sad, however, that James Cameron went along with it.
they did that in the modern version? thought it was in night to remember?
@@george5590 ANOTR makes him sound a lot more confused and concerned rather than the 1997 movie which makes all his comments sound like he's angry at the crew.
They needed a "baddy" for the story. Let's face it, it's a fantasy "based on real events"! 😂
@@dovetonsturdee7033I think ANTR did him better. Not much, but he wasn’t evil, just annoying.
Can you imagine such a hostile cross-examination, THE DAY AFTER ARRIVAL in New York happening today? The man is traumatised!
The man, as you call him, was complicit
the man is a coward. So where did he get the nerve to get on a life boat?
@@georgeworthmore You are gratefully misinformed, he helped as many passengers to get on life both as possible. But it is proven that there were no more passengers or no women in children to be exact around the boat that he got on. You have to remember, Bruce was by all accounts was a passenger on the Titanic. He was not a part of the official crew.
Well. Don't sink ships
What about the 1500 people who froze in the Atlantic? Hard to feel sorry for him after he got to live.
Bruce Ismay was NOT the villain he was portrayed to be and people should definitely do their research before they choose to brand him as a selfish coward who supposedly manipulated Captain Smith into going faster to reach New York despite the ice warnings, only cared about saving himself and was the greedy, evil architect behind the disaster. The films have lied to us greatly!
Here are the facts: Ismay was simply traveling as a passenger who had full faith in the captain, the officers and he had no influence over decisions made aboard. He had no desire to reach New York earlier whatsoever (having expressed this regarding the Olympic before) and during the sinking he spent the entire two hours urging women, children and men to enter the lifeboats…. he was rescued on one of the LAST lifeboats after assisting reluctant passengers, there was room for him, there were no other passengers near the boat and he got in……. If he stayed he merely would’ve been one more casualty.
After being rescued by the Carpathia, he was in complete shock and utterly broken over the loss of his ship and the lives of so many passengers, he was medicated the entire voyage and according to witnesses expressed regret for having not gone down with the ship. He also had Captain Rostram of the Carpathia prevent the Olympic from coming to collect the survivors to spare them further horror/trauma.
I know what you are thinking at this point; he was the one who personally limited the number of lifeboats aboard Titanic ….. Titanic actually carried MORE lifeboats than was legally required at the time….. this applies to ALL ships! They did not see the necessity of excessive numbers of lifeboats because they assumed rescue would always be close enough and the boats could ferry passengers to a rescue ship as had been done during previous disasters. The Titanic disaster finally woke them all up! Unfortunately 1500 innocent people had to die a horrible death to highlight severely outdated regulations imposed by the British Board of Trade for large passenger liners.
Ismay was made a villainous scapegoat by the American press (William Randolph Hearst in particular who intensely disliked Ismay) who made up bullshit claims about his actions, even that he had posed as a women to board a lifeboat, because they wanted someone to blame and Ismay was a perfect candidate for that given his status and position. Every single portrayal of Ismay in cinema (even 1997) further adds to this narrative in some way and is entirely wrong and tarnishes the facts.
Oceanliner Designs has a whole episode dedicated to Ismay and his time aboard Titanic and how his life and reputation were destroyed by the sinking. If you think I’m a BSer go see for yourself.
The Titanic may've had more boats than required by law but again on the other hand Walter Lord said that shipowners at the time talked Board of Trade members into not mandating full lifeboat capacity .
1500 souls had to perish thanks to his decision against full lifeboat capacity
I agree. Also he gave excellent testimony.
@@fmyoung No…. 1500 souls had to perish because of outdated regulations and no strict requirements to accommodate all passengers and crew in the event of an emergency evacuation…. Titanic was still within the legal requirements and had 4 extra boats!
If those 4 extra boats hadn’t been there….. even more death.
@@carson11100 "No." :-D. . The law was bad it was too lenient it totally went against common sense! :-D (Why do people have to excuse the situation with sth like that, "oh the law at the time"... :-D .)
At 7.50 p.m. on April 14th the SS Mesaba's wireless operator Stanley Adams sent the following ice warning: "To Titanic In Lat. 42 N. to 41.25 Lond 49 W to Long - 50.30 W saw much heavy pack ice and great number large icebergs also field ice. Weather good, clear" The Titanic was inside the rectangle blocked out by this warning.
Ismay soon afterwards resigned and became a recluse, not seeing anyone or talking about the event. He died in 1937.
He had resigned the year before titanic sailed, he was fulfilling the terms of his resignation
June 1913, Ismay retired from the presidency of the IMMC. He had made the announcement of his impending retirement in January 1912 as he wanted to allow his old friend Harold Sanderson, the opportunity of holding the most senior position within the company before he too, retired.
So he had announced retirement before titanic was even finished, he then carried on till a year after
This is so awesome! More please!
Titanic historians and ship builders now believe that even if Titanic had enough lifeboats for everyone, she wouldn't have been able to launch them all. Remember it took an hour after the collision before the first lifeboat was launched. By 2.10am they were still trying to launch the collapsible boats. Imagine if by 2.10am they still had to launch another 20 boats. Those 20 boats would have been mostly destroyed in the final plunge.
You are probably correct. Because the training was hopeless and Captain Smith lost his nerve and gave poor instructions. His officers repeatedly approached him looking for instructions and eventually just took their own decisions. However there are two critical factors. With enough lifeboats Lightholler would have allowed men on the lifeboats. While steerage would have been allowed up to the boat deck earlier before most of the lifeboats had left. Would everybody have been saved? Almost definitely not. Would more have been. Almost definitely yes.
If the crew had been properly trained and the passengers had lifeboat assignments then there would've been no problems with boats for all
Ismay not only cut the number of lifeboats from 48 to 16, he actively campaigned to discourage treating Titanic as if it were subject to sinking and needing the lifeboats at all. It's little wonder then that Captain Smith canceled the lifeboat drill for the last morning of the Titanic's existence.
Don't make self-fulfilling prophecies.
Modern "Historians" are full of crap.
With Roughly 800-1000 able bodied men on that ship working together, they could have figured it out.
@@egm8602 Ismay did not have any involvement in the number of lifeboats, which was subject to Board of Trade regulations. The designer of the Olympics, Alexander Carlisle, stated that he expected the Board to increase the number in view of the increasing displacement of new liners. He therefore designed the ship for, but not with, 48 lifeboats. As regulations were not changed, the Olympics were equipped with a total of 20 boats.
In his evidence, he denied that anyone from White Star had put any pressure on him.
By the way, there had been a boat drill in Southampton before Titanicd sailed. Such drills involved the crew only, not passengers.
I do NOT vilify Ismay at all. Great video!!😊
too kind
Yeah…it’s easy to vilify him. We weren’t there… in both the sense of “we didn’t see it … and we don’t know what we’d do if it was us”
He did have a lot of information about the sinking if he had gone down with the ship we would have never found out about a lot of it. I get people are mad that he snuck on a boat when so many women and children were still on and sadly had to die but it would of most likely happened if he got on or not especially being the boat was already being lowered while he got on it. I don’t think he was as bad as a man history portrayed him anytime people tell stories they always like to make someone in that story the bad person.
@@joseph.christiansen Lightoller is the villain, he's a fool, he let boats go half full 300 people lost there lives when they could have been saved and mostly from the port side where lightoller was they should have been 1200 who died not 1496. It's lightoller fault he even told young 14 year old to get out of the boats then they were launched with empty spaces. He should have been sent to prison for what he did it's disgraceful. Philips isn't much better the fool.
Haha you're joking right??? They cut corners in the building of the boat in Belfast to the objections of Thomas Andrews. He persuaded the captain to go faster due to the lack of coal in the bunkers based on a fire in Belfast dock that was raised by the workers. That's why it went so fast because if it maintained a lower speed and ran out of coal it would have been bad for business stranded in the ocean. Look up the addergooole 14 documentary. 14 young men and women from county Mayo, Ireland, travelled third class and only 3 girls survived. While they were in bed weak and traumatised, white star line which he was MD of, sent men to the girls bed side for them to sign a document saying they settle for 25 pounds and take all blame of white star line yet... the girls who were ill were told by the men, sign this, its just confirmation this was your ticket. Never let the girls read the paper after wakening them up in hospital. They were delirious, Had PTSD and didn't know what was going on. He jumped on a boat to save himself while women and children weren't on boats. This is all factual btw. Do some actual research about the hidden truth about the disaster, the cover up too and then come back and say you dont vilify him you nob. He disappeared from the public with embarrassment and lived in Ireland then died. So if he was so innocent and everything was honky dory....why do that? and why not allow the men from the Belfast ship yard to testify at hearing about the cut corners and why would he have allowed the "judge appointed by the white star line"(complete conflict of interest if there ever was one) to not allow their evidence in the trial or union to speak. You really know very little to then say "I do NOT vilify him" simp comes to my mind about you. Do research. Know your stuff.
Thank you for this. It's shocking how life-like the AI voices are! Really scary actually.
LOLOLOL!!! OMG I LOVE YOUR SARCASM 🥰
"I think it was nine point three zero in the morning"
Yeah, and amazing how authentic Ismay's Liverpudlian accent sounds ... 🤣
I don't think A1 saying the time was nine point three zero sounds life like lol.
Any chance you can upload more of these from the other witnesses ?
I don't think so, it takes a lot of time and money to do it...
you should really do it...@@titanictreasures
@@titanictreasures I can see that .
He suggested to the Captain to speed up the ship. It was the Captain who made that decision to speed up. It was the radio operator that ignored the ice warnings and the Captain of the Californian who ignored the Titianic.
There is only one witness to that alleged conversation, and now even some historians doubt the accuracy of that witness.
The wireless operators didn't just ignore the warnings.
They were overworked and overloaded with message traffic, unfortunately it 'slipped through the cracks'.
They had their set power turned all the way up for maximum broadcast range.
When a warning came from a nearby ship, it nearly deafened them because of their sets amplification.
He told them to shut up because of his knee jerk reaction.
@@phillydelphia8760 And of course Jack and Harold both acted very brave by staying at their posts right until the last minutes before the ship took her final plunge. Literally water about to our into their cabin before they left
@@johnking5174 name the historians and the sources. Book/page number etc....
The witness was reliable and had no obvious axe to grind. She simply reported what she overheard.
@@johnking5174 Arguably Jack stayed because he knew he was more than partly to blame for the accident. By not forwarding the Mesaba ice warning. And blocking out the Californian ice warning. They were critical warnings because they showed the Titanic was right in the middle of a large ice field.
Other ice warnings were not as important given locations etc.
Like Captain Smith he knew he would be blamed for screwing up.
He had honour I will give him that. But he had no future. As for guts that's debatable. True guts would have been to face up to the consequences of his mistakes.
Harald stayed cos Jack was his boss. And I will give him bravery also as he had done no wrong.
My God, did they ever crucify this man almost everything you hear or read about Bruce Ismay is an absolute lie due to people being jealous of his wealth and success the fact of the matter is, the man helped as many people as he could, and then stepped into a lifeboat just when there was no one else was around just as you or I would act.
He was nothing but compassionate and helpful to any survivor after everything was said and done he actually went above and beyond only to be unfairly judged in history, including in James Cameron‘s movie. If you want to know, the real story of him, go, watch the videos on ocean liner designs channel…
Well he sent a message asking White Star in New York to hold this ship the Cedric until he and the crew came so they could go on back home to England as soon as possible. That in itself was already suspicious. He made it look even more so by signing the message "Yamsi" his last name spelled backwards.
@@fmyoungBecause he, like the officers did, thought he’d head straight back to England for an enquiry. They didn’t think they’d have one in the US.
@@mykoniichistorychannel His "Yamsi" signature raised many eyebrows again it looked suspicious
@@mykoniichistorychannel He was trying to evade US jurisdiction before any investigation was started
This is incredible, thank you for taking all this time and turning this into a sort of audio book! I always prefer listening to stuff so this is very welcome, great job!
Also you can really sea Mr. Ismay's grief in a pictures of the inquiry.
Thank you so much for your words! To be honest, it was really hard to put it all together, although only a few people will apreciate it. I'm glad you're one of them, enjoy it!
Toys 🧸🐻
Yes I also enjoy listening to things like this as appose reading lines.
Thanks to creator too
Could you do more of that?
I'm having trouble picturing half the rowers facing forward and half to the rear (reason Ismay gave for not seeing ship).
I believe there are photos of the survivors in lifeboats that illustrate what he meant by that.
He wouldnt have been able to see the ship anyways it was pitch black.
Smith is more mad that women had to row, than that the lifeboats were half empty and WOMEN DIED.
The Titanic's troubles begin with her very name. Titanic is the adjective for Titan, and the Titans in Greek mythology were a race who waged war against Zeus, the so-called "god of gods." This is the part of the story that seems familiar to quite a few. The part that seems unknown to most, shipowners at the time included, is that - guess what - the Titans lost. So, the Titanic was eventually defeated by her very name, as it were - and during her maiden voyage, at that .
And Ismay vilified in the process. Grandiosity sometimes pays dearly.
@@ReviewsChannel-e4r He too probably didn't know what the name really meant
Thank you so much! I love these so much!
A rather extroardinary piece of history . Well worth the listen.
tyvm for the upload
People held off boarding her they could have he was helping people board. He was the scapegoat
I think Ismay bore the brunt of blame. Who would not take a place in a lifeboat in similar circumstances. Doubtless had EJ Smith or Wilde have survived they would have taken his place or been scapegoats with him. Ismay was instrumental in seeing the survivors and next-of-kin were looked after following the sinking. Rarely is that mentioned.
Well as he stepped into the lifeboat Ismay knew he was leaving scores of people behind on his own ship .
That’s a very good point. This was the time when if you lost your family in a shipwreck I think the response was a minuscule fraction of what it might be now.
Can’t imagine Ismay being a higher target than EJ Smith or Wilde. Turner of Lusitania was hunted relentlessly by the Admiralty and he had no hand in launching a salvo of torpedoes at his own ship.
They needed a scapegoat for the Titanic tragedy and Ismay was the perfect fall guy, the owner who survived the sinking while 1500 perished.
Well he was guilty of deciding against full lifeboat capacity. As he stepped into Collapsible C he knew that hundreds would be left on board with no chance of escape.
They know the wireless operator jack Phillips caused the wreck by not relaying warnings to the captain. He cursed out the operator of the closest boat the Californian.
@@fmyoung im pretty sure it wasnt even him that decided that actually, he was the owner of a company not the designer of one ship, id have to rewatch ocean liner designs video on him tho
@@Deveolgaming1912 And the word is still out there that he was the one who decided against boats for all so I am pretty sure it was him
@@fmyoung word is also out there that the captain said god himself cant sink the ship, he never said that tho
JBI was a scapegoat for sure. He was
I'm doing my history prospectus paper on the congressional hearings of the titanic. Thank You!
You get the feeling from the US hearing that they had already made up their mind about Ismay, and all of the questioning was done to try and expose him as a coward, a liar and a businessman who wanted to achieve speed over safety. That is not a fair assessment of Ismay. The man has had too much mud thrown at him over the last 112 years.
Everybody needs a villain. Who else better other than the "higher official" that survived.
2nd-class passenger Lawrence Beesley was among the few if not the only one who noticed that the Titanic had a very slight list to port throughout the voyage. He was probably a very observant person.
Objection! Asked and answered! Objection! badgering the witness!
Kind of a shame what happened to him it was a no win scenario for him. Sadly the White Star Line kind of went with him. From what I read he did all the charitiibly could and put forth the upgrades to Olympic and Britannic before he resigned. What could have been had not the Titanic sunk.
Smith does my head in!!! Just keeps repeating what was said in the form of a question.
He was taking his time in the questioning of Ismay; he didn't want to rush through anything. I have to say that America really had a right to investigate; the tragedy did after all involve US jurisdiction and because the IMM bought White Star in 1902 the Titanic was American-owned.
@@fmyoungDoesn’t stop his line of questioning from being stupid.
@@mykoniichistorychannel He made his mistakes yes but in the end the two inquiries helped improve safety at sea
Please do more of these, absolutely riveting.
It is riveting and really worth watching. I am back for the umpteenth time now.
In the movie, B-52 was Rose cabin.
Because Rose wasn't real. They didn't include Charlotte Cardeza (the occupant of the other super de luxe suite rooms) in the movie
Rose was real. She just changed her name to rose dawson@Firemarioflower
Lol rose was definitely not real
@@michaelspoto8720 Please tell me you're trolling
@@michaelspoto8720 There was of course no Jack and Rose romance on the Titanic but there was a Jack Thayer in 1st class (not 3rd) and a Rhoda Mary “Rosa” (not Rose) Abbott (née Hunt) in 3rd class (not 1st). They both survived the sinking
I was there during the cross examination. He doesn’t sound like this at all.
The AI voices add a subtle level of comedy which I appreciate.
lol Yep. "The time was nine point three zero". lol
Ismay sounds like Star Trek's Data
You know, people say the ship wasnt going at full speed, which was 78. He stated "She works up to 80". So which one is it? 78 or 80?
I mean, yes, she wasn't going at full speed, but damn near it! If its pitch black on the horizon, due to a moonless night, and navigating through a maze of iceburgs' Why didnt the Capt slow it down to 70, or 65? Could have meant the difference between avoiding collision. How irresponsible on the Capt's part. He wasnt putting the safety of the passengers first. JB stated there no need to arrive at New York before 5am. Why rush? I blame the disaster on the Capt.
When AI reads lines you get bits like the third being read as "3D."
Not "Males and passengers" it's supposed to be "mails and passengers" as the Titanic was part of the Royal Mail Service, where the name RMS Titanic comes from. The ship was loaded with a fair bit of letters and parcels to be delivered across the US.
I know it has many mistakes. But for me, as non English speaker, it was really difficult to correct it. Thanks for your appreciation!
WHAT HAS AL READ GOT TO DO WITH IT?
It doesn't help Ismay's image as I heard from Sam Pence (Historic Travels) that White Star, in an effort to avoid lawsuits, sent representatives to hospitals where victims were recovering and tricked them into signing declarations that they wouldn't sue for damages, in exchange for 25 pounds. That's downright obscene.
However often you repeat this nonsense, it still will not make it true. I recall asking you for your source on several occasions. You have not so far managed to supply it.
I wonder why not? Perhaps because the idea of 'Non-Disclosure Agreements' only dates back to the 1940s?
@@dovetonsturdee7033
"However often you repeat this nonsense, it still will not make it true. I recall asking you for your source on several occasions. You have not so far managed to supply it.
I wonder why not? Perhaps because the idea of 'Non-Disclosure Agreements' only dates back to the 1940s?"
James Cameron needs to re write the script on Bruce Ismays roll in the movie Titanic.. He got the script wrong!
Yes, when you watch the film , you see an hypocrite coward guy. Shame on Cameron.
"I couldn't see her go down" (J. B. Ismay). "I am glad I did not."
Early riser at 9 point three zero lol
Titanic
He stayed the night before at the Southwestern hotel which was a stone's throw away
Thanks
Wow! That means a lot! Thank you for the support!
The problem with Bruce Ismay is that he rejected the shipbuilder's suggestion to add more lifeboats as he didn't want to spoil the view from the first class promenade deck. That decision turned out to be fatal and cost hundreds of lives. His decision was in line with the outdated Board of Trade rules but not in line with the direction that shipbuilders wanted to move towards.
The davits on the Titanic could handle total of 64 lifeboats but only 20 lifeboats were placed on the ship. In other words the shipbuilders designed the ship for there to be enough lifeboats for all. So there was no design issue here in terms of adding more lifeboats. That is a very significant point as it shows what they were thinking and also the direction in which the whole industry was moving.
So while he was wrongly vilified for surviving when so many other men didn't his real error was at the design stage. He didn't take safety as seriously as others did. And therefore that was his real "crime" so to speak.
It also didn’t help that the crew didn’t fill the lifeboats to full capacity or there would’ve been 1,500 survivors instead of a little more then 700
But would they have had time to fill more lifeboats if they existed? They couldn’t fill all the existing ones before it went down so I’m genuinely wondering if more would have been used…
@@Jennifer-ls5ke it wasnt a time issue. It was a poor trainimg issue due to lack of trust on davits. Had they trained properly they would have known the davits could easily handle fully loaded boats
Your first statement has no basis in fact. It is a common misconception that Ismay rejected more lifeboats. The davits were designed to hold 64 IF REQUIRED, but the board of trade regulations had not been updated in over 15 years. Google "BIG ships and small boats" by Mark Chirnside and it gives fascinating detail into the real reasons behind Titanics lifeboat capacity, which actually exceeded requirements.
@@cardiffgiant9406 Your entire statement has no basis in fact. Everybody knows what the Board of Trade regulations were. Everybody also knows that the ship's designers built davits to hold 64 lifeboats. And everybody except you knows that Ismay as managing director of the shipping line since 1899 rejected this.
From Quora :
"The lifeboats. It’s true that Ismay was the person who decided to reduce Titanic’s complement of lifeboats from 48 to 16 (plus four collapsible lifeboats), the legal minimum required for a ship of Titanic’s tonnage.
From Encylopedia Titanica:
"When Ismay and the other board members rejected the extra lifeboats, Carlisle meekly signed off on the decision"
From Historic UK history magazine
Due to his position within The White Star Line, Ismay was one of the first passengers to be informed about the grievous damage the iceberg had dealt the ship - and nobody understood the precarious position they were now in better than Ismay. After all, it was he who had reduced the number of lifeboats from 48 to 16 (plus 4 smaller ‘Collapsible’ Engelhardt boats), the minimum standard required by the Board of Trade. A tragic decision that must have weighed heavily on Ismay’s mind that cold April night
So stop talking nonsense and trolling people who have done their research. And read something for once in your life!!
About the role of lifeboats as "ferries" between the stricken ship and the rescue ship (so that there was "no need" to have "boats for all") I think the trouble with that approach is by the time the "ferries" made one trip and came back the stricken ship might've been in a far more precarious situation if not already beneath the water. So with a full lifeboat complement and a nice and properly trained crew it would've all been more effective and faster everyone would've been evacuated at the same time. The normally stormy North Atlantic is no place for such "ferries" especially if the crew had to row (the boats weren't motorized) the poor crew would've for sure been exhausted from rowing in choppy waters. That night the sea was "like a millpond" (Ruth Becker) and it seems largely forgotten that this is really the exception on the North Atlantic. (And the very fact that it was so calm makes it very easy for people now to think of lifeboats as "ferries")
Also the word was spread at the time that the North Atlantic run was so busy "there were always other ships nearby if anything happens." The Titanic was doubtless no exception the Californian was only 10mi away or most probably less than that (donkey boilerman Ernest Gill and carpenter James McGregor saw the Titanic's distress rockets very plainly as did the officers), but then (a) she was the one and only ship really close and (b) Cpt Lord just wouldn't do anything (not even wake up Cyril Evans just a few steps away and have him check on the situation). And then apart from the Californian all the other ships contacted by Phillips and Bride were much further away. After all, the Carpathia was no fewer than 58mi from the scene so she needed 3.5hrs she didn't get there until 1h40min after the Titanic slid beneath the water.
So what good is a ship nice and nearby if the captain just won't bother?
The ferry approach to lifeboats is just a lame post-disaster excuse.
Senator Smith is just pounding away at Ismay as though he was privy to what officers, the captain, crew or passengers said or did. He was a passenger, not there to evaluate or observe everything and Smith knew that. Brutal non stop questioning. It's amazing Ismay didn't commit suicide.
Ismay sank the Titanic. He drove the decision process that reduced the number of lifeboats, lowered the bulkheads, then pushed the captain to speed, at night, against warnings, through an area littered with icebergs.
Then he took a scarce seat in a lifeboat while hundreds of women and children were still being held back on the ship. His testimony provided nothing unique. He most certainly should have gone down with the ship. As a survivor, he should have been exiled.
Ismay should have been exiled at the least.
@@egm8602What part of Ismay was a passenger, NOT making any decisions while on board Titanic don't you understand? You keep perpetuating blame that he caused the sinking like you were there. Malarkey.
@@ReviewsChannel-e4r Ismay sank the Titanic. Smith passively helped him. Sad.
@@egm8602Load of old tosh.
It's amazing to think we have these records at all. I mean how on earth did they capture them? I've never seen anyone write that fast. Unless they had typewriters.
Court stenographers are taught to take a transcription at that sort of speed. The either use shorthand, or a stenographer machine, which has five keys (or is it ten, once for each hand?). In any event, there are those who are trained to take down such remarks accurately at a normal speaking speed.
@@Mark3ABE Incredible regardless.
Poor Ismay. It is sad but the mentality, even today, is that if you were not a woman or a child you are a coward and even if you survived by sheer happenstance oftentimes you are still branded a coward.
In most cases you would, in fact, be a coward. But the pandemonium of the sinking did not present a normal case. Ismay did nothing wrong, anymore than the sailors who at the end tried to launch collapsibles for themselves.
Or third class(poor)
@@nickcharles1284I agree, but don’t. If you flee to safety and you’re not doing anything to impede others to do the same, woman or child, you’re not a coward. If you’re trying to save your own skin and do it at the expense intentionally of a child, then you’re a coward.
Thinking about the lifeboats' role as "ferries" between the stricken ship and the rescue ship (so that there was "no need" for a full lifeboat complement) I think the trouble with that is by the time the "ferries" made one trip and came back the stricken ship might've been in a far more precarious situation if not already beneath the water. So with a full lifeboat complement and a properly trained crew it would've all been more effective and faster everyone would've been evacuated at the same time. The normally stormy North Atlantic is no place for such "ferries" especially if the crew had to row (the boats weren't motorized) the crew would've for sure been exhausted from rowing in choppy waters. That night the sea was most unusually calm and it seems largely forgotten that this is really the exception on the North Atlantic. (And the very fact that it was so calm makes it very easy for people now to think of lifeboats as "ferries")
Also the word was spread at the time that the North Atlantic run was so busy "there were always other ships nearby if anything happens." The Titanic was really no exception as the Californian was only 10mi away or most probably less than that (donkey boilerman Ernest Gill and carpenter James McGregor saw the Titanic's distress rockets very plainly as did the officers), but then (a) she was the one and only ship really close and (b) Cpt Lord just wouldn't bother helping. And then apart from the Californian all the other ships contacted by Phillips and Bride were much further away. After all, the Carpathia was no fewer than 58mi away so she needed 3.5hrs to make it to the scene and she didn't get there until 1h40min after the Titanic slid beneath the water.
In closing what's the use of a nearby ship if the captain doesn't go help?
I wish he could see today how his name has been cleared in the eyes of most. I don't know what books or documentaries James Cameron came across but he really blew it with that damn movie. In more ways than one. If there isn't a disclaimer at the beginning when you stream Titanic, about blatantly inaccurate details in regards to non fictional characters, there really should be.
William Randolph Hearst and his yellow journalism had a lot to do with it. Along with a conversation that a woman overheard about the ship’s performance and progress that was misquoted and disseminated.
Did they take the southern route after the ice was reported? This was my understanding, that by going south they would avoid the ice debris field, the ice had drifted south obviously.
No way in hell there wasn’t any people around the last lifeboats
On the costa concordia men were shoving women out of the way to get to safety. Give Bruce a break.
I have to agree
Most of them still weren't grasping the seriousness of the situation. Many people were still reluctant to leave. Until all the boats were gone, people still believed nothing would happen. Ismay's vicinity had no women and children. Only crew members. Its confirmed by Quartermaster Rowe's testimony.
@@gokulgopan4397 Women and children around or no Ismay knew it was wrong not to have provided boats for all whether or not that was common procedure back then
@@fmyoung it wasn't his decision. It was board of trade. The safety equipments were passed on the advisory committee meeting in 1910 as part of a joint decision. None of the liners at the time had enough for all (because it was the norm). There has been several incidents like Republic sinking where ferrying passengers was a success. It just reassured everyone that it would work. Titanic happened to be the one that got in a situation no one foresaw and had to go down to show how outdated the regulations were.
Apparently, there was a increase in 39% lifeboat capacity in the final design than the initial Design D.
markchirnside.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Titanic_Lifeboat_Increase.pdf
J. Bruce Ismay did technically supply more lifeboats than required by the Board of Trade (though just a handful more) but then there's Google which still says that he was the one who "in a move that would become highly controversial" decided to limit the number of lifeboats on the Olympic and Titanic to 16, even though the davits could accommodate 48 (the number strongly advocated for by Alexander M. Carlisle of Harland & Wolff). Ismay justified his decision by saying that the ship itself was a lifeboat so there was no need to clutter the deck. (How did he know that his ship was its own lifeboat if he wasn't the shipbuilder I wonder.)
And then there's Walter Lord who said that the Board of Trade section responsible for lifeboat capacity was dominated by the shipowners themselves they wanted to utilize the space for more 1st-class amenities (instead of "cluttering it with - of all things - lifeboats."). With that, Lord said, the shipowners "knew exactly where they stood on the issue, and they didn't want boats for all."
Ismay tried to evade American jurisdiction by sending a message to the White Star offices in New York and asking them to hold this other ship the Cedric until he and the crew came so they could go back to England as soon as possible. To that he added "Propose returning on [the Cedric] myself." He made the message look even more suspicious by signing it "Yamsi" his last name spelled backwards. Congress heard about it through the USS Chester though and Sen Smith was able to form his subcommittee to investigate the disaster.
The ferry approach to lifeboats is just a lame post-disaster excuse. It's all you have to do to remember that the North Atlantic was most unusually calm that night it was "like a millpond" (Ruth Becker).
Fun fact: the story of Ismay using a child to get on a lifeboat was part of a smear campaign by his business rivals
Who said that of him
Who said that about Ismay?
William Randolph Hearst had a grudge against Ismay. The story repeated the most is that Ismay had once stonewalled Hearst in regards to another ship sinking in New York Harbor. Ismay allegedly refused to answer questions about it, which led to Hearst holding a grudge for years. When Titanic sank, Hearst used his news empire to push these stories of Ismay being a coward.
@23:00 if your rowing a boat away from the ship, your back is not facing the ship....you would be facing the ship as you rowed away from it
"In the olden days" he says back in 1912.
Also "in the future" they would've said about the time of first world war
Even 40 years ago in 1912, ships were still Powered by wind.
@@Fernando5455Jr I think there was already steamships in the 1870s but they also still had sails like windjammers. One that I know about the SS Great Eastern was completed in August 1859 and her maiden voyage was later that same month on the 30th
Ismay did not tell the whole story of what he saw. Listening to him you would think he was just a passenger and not one who's ship was going down. He saw more then he is saying. What he was doing was to cover himself. The idea that he saw no other passengers on the deck is to far fetched for me. That he saw no other passengers fighting is another lie. I do believe him when he said he saw another ship. There was another that did not come to the rescue but was never identified until now.
Quartermaster Rowe, barber Weikman, all testified a near empty forward part of starboard side. Besides, you can't keep stalling the launch.
I appreciate the brief and exact way this is spoken.
Didn't the titanic have 5 compartments filled. She can stay afloat with 4 compartments full?
Bad AI aside, this is really fascinating. I'm learning for the first time that Ismay referred to what we call the Boat Deck as the Sun Deck.
it was a huge mistake to make him a coward, would be interested to know why?
They jinxed titanic by saying the ship was unsinkable
WHITE STAR NEVER SAID THAT. THE MEDIA DID
WSL said she was "practically unsinkable," not unsinkable without a doubt..
Shipbuilder Magazine said of WS's new superliners that they were "practically unsinkable" but somewhere in the retelling (early into it I'm sure) the adverb was dropped and everyone just went and said they were unsinkable
@@thomasdaniels6824 I hear WS stated that "as far as it is possible to do so, these two wonderful vessels are designed to be unsinkable"
Mr. Ismay seems to get a bad rap. Everything he's stated is absolutely true and he's not hiding anything at all. Very straightforward with all his answers. What's odd is that so soon after the accident that even he knew that if the Titanic would've just hit the iceberg straight on, it would've been fine. (Fine, meaning it would've stayed afloat).
He told Sen Smith he had no knowledge about the ship's progress let alone ice warnings (there were no fewer than six of them on the 14th alone). Cpt Smith handed him a warning from the Baltic (instead of posting it on the bridge for his officers to read....) - so, Ismay totally knew .
I didn't know she arrived in Southampton on Wednesday the 3 d
Yes, actually James Cameron arrived there to make the 3D film 🤣🤣 There are some audio mistakes, but most of it is correct.
Great video. Just wanted to point out that Ismay's accent would've been closer to a Scouse'ish type or general English accent.
I get annoyed when people demonize Ismay for saving his own life. Its not like HE sank the ship. Nobody wants to die. It doesn't make you a coward.
And no-one should be obliged to die on a sinking ship for no reason whatsoever but pride and silly expectations. Him staying on that ship to die would've served no purpose for anyone.
Well, honor used to be a thing, saving children before yourself used to be a thing. He was the managing director of the white star line, which owned the titanic. A whole lot of children died of hypothermia or drowned that night. I don't fault him for saving his own life but I get why it made people angry. Also I don't believe his testimony that the deck was empty and there were no other passengers waiting to get in lifeboats.
@@WhisperSonnetand what children could he have saved ? He left before the ship began its final plunge, as they say.
He is obviously covering up😮
The problem was there wasn’t enough life boats which was the problem and he thought the ship was unsinkable. Not fully his fault except for the life boat situations
Senator Smith sounds like Texas senator Ted Cruz
Sen Smith was from Michigan
This is why AI sucks. I stopped this video after about 20 seconds of those awful fake voices. But on the subject of Ismay, he wasn't quite the villain some people made him out to be. Cameron's movie portrayed him and others in a very poor light. He should have been more sensitive when featuring real historical characters in his movies.
What a bunch of stupid questions by the Senator.
Well the disaster did involve American territorial waters and there were American passengers on board so America had every right to investigate. Besides J P Morgan's IMM bought White Star in 1902 so the Titanic was American-owned.
And Senator Smith later asked Lightoller what icebergs were made of.
Lightoller too? I know he asked Boxhall and Lowe Boxhall told Sen Smith "some people tell me they have seen rocks and things of that sort in them" and Lowe smirked and said "Ice I suppose sir"
I thought he only asked Harold Lowe.
I'm in partial disagreement on these posts. Bruce Ismay was the Chairman the White Star Line and a survivor of the Titanic, yes. He repeatedly said "I think, I don't remember". How do you not recall that traumatic event? However, He should have had much more common sense to have had more life boats across the board on the worlds largest ship in 1912. Or maybe 100 years ago they were just naive after over 2,000 + ships were lost at sea? Just in a 500 year period.. Come on...really? He thought his construction was just so good and what happened in the past could no happen again - it's all about the money and the tickets they could sell. You can disagree, but riddle me this..why have a boat that size and not have life boats to carry ALL of them off - Just in Case?
Titanic was equipped with a brand new lifeboat davit that can easily accommodate *two* row of boats in case of one, but as of that time the regulations still limit the lifeboat capacity to 16. The rule would eventually have been implemented, of course, but Titanic’s sinking emphasized on the urgency of the matter. Very tragic
Arrogance. They wanted to destroy their rivals especially Cunard by having the entire ship perceived as a unsinkable lifeboat. So having lifeboats in deck would have been a contradiction to them. Warped thinking.
What difference would more lifeboats make? They didn't have enough time to load and launch the boats they had, more boats in the way would have probably slowed down the evacuation and spread the crew out further, costing more lives
@@J.Marrs76 every ship that era was built so it could be its own lifeboat. That’s the standard they aim to achieve
@@RobbieHall1984 they had time to launch all but two boats
00:40 What time? “I believe it was nine point three zero” Lol!
The first hearings in the US a couple of days after were the only ones of historical value. 6 months later back in the UK, it was a finger pointing mission and bickering about how well built she was & not breaking in 2 like so many testimonies stated.
Titanic engine
There is some question as to why America thought it had a right to inquire into the disaster. White Star was British but it was after all bought by IMM in 1902 so apart from soliciting American business the Titanic was American-owned she carried American passengers and the survivors and crew all went to New York.
The ship sank because it hit an iceberg. End of testimony.
But why and how? That is important, and the answer(s) aren't always so simple.
@@carlousmagus5387 I'm not downplaying the interesting human and technical story, or why people seek details..But in the main, the why and how is completely straight forward and well understood. The captain immediately understood the cost of his folly, and the builder made the calculation based on damage in minutes. The ship hit a massive object at speed. No rivets or steel type would have made a difference.
I guess....
Simple as that
That's right that should be it .
It was a clumsy question. He may have said, “ What material might an iceberg contain that might render it more difficult to see, especially at night” You see the ice in our freezer at home is made up of clear clean water. Ice in nature is likely to include rocks, solid mud, plant growth and the like and if the berg flipped over it might be showing a “dark” side to an approaching ship and not the clean white sight we are used to seeing. Hence it would be more camouflaged.
Glacier ice is as hard as concrete. Very, very dense.
I think that Lightoller was the ultimate villain. He refused entry into the lifeboats of men, even when there were no women around. How many men could have been saved? Also, They could’ve stuffed those boats with another 500 passengers. Lots of mistakes were made before, during, and after the collision…
Just can't believe the answer Lightoller gave to question 14197 at the British inquiry
Can you suggest at all how it can have come about that this iceberg should not have been seen at a greater distance? - It is very difficult indeed to come to any conclusion. Of course, we know now the extraordinary combination of circumstances that existed at that time which you would not meet again once in 100 years; that they should all have existed just on that particular night shows, of course, that everything was against us.
That's not a ship's officer, that's a teen. He was the 2nd officer so we're talking someone with vast experience on the North Atlantic. What an example to set to the junior officers. The court wasn't impressed either and the message seemed to be, as Walter Lord put it so well, that the accident was of the one-in-a-million variety. I think it was rather of the preventable variety .
I just don’t have a high opinion of Lightoller in general. Especially after some of his WWI exploits.
Captain Rostron probably never believed the Titanic was unsinkable
Gosh, no wonder 5th Officer Lowe hated Senator Smith, constantly repeating responses back at them, drive me crazy too
As a private investigator I can tell you that repeating a question back to a witness is not unusual. I helps to make sure the witness understood the question fully and to see if he answers differently.
@@igregmartDoesn’t mean the one on the receiving end, especially if they’re being truthful, wouldn’t be irritated by it. Just listening to it I got annoyed. I hate having to repeat myself, and I hate hearing people say the same thing over again.
Other parts?
I love how pechalant and impatient or leading the Americans sound questioning him.
Well they had the right to demand answers; the tragedy did eventually take place within US jurisdiction also .
Mr. Ismay had the restraint of a thousand prisons, I would have lost it over some of these questions.
He certainly distorted the truth several times. His testimony contradicts the testimony of many people.
And it doesn't help his image that White Star sent representatives to hospitals where victims were recovering and tricked them into signing declarations that they wouldn't sue for damages in exchange for 25 pounds. That's downright obscene
Or that’s how he saw it. There’s a reason why eyewitness testimony has its detractors. People could see the same thing and have two very different conclusions as to what they saw.
I hate the AI voices but I'm so intrigued by this so I must thank you for putting it together.
He was in room B-52? I guess you could say his room was a.... Love Shack. 😉
Oh god.....
Either that or he was a top bomber lol
0:47 As she was exiting Southampton Harbor the Titanic almost collided with that other ship called - of all names - New York
How did he escape? He could've given his seat to a child.
There were no one else around willing to get in. He looked for women/children/men willing to take a spot but none did. He was not the last seat in the lifeboat but his lifeboat was very much under capacity. He spent the whole time of the sinking making sure women and children were getting into the boats and only at the very end did he finally get in. The movies villanized Ismay, much like James Cameron's film did Murdoch dirty.
@@TheNavyShark If there were no one else around, how come over 1500 souls went to their deaths? Were they already dead?
@@MrBaritone38 A lot of the lifeboats were launched not to capacity, including Ismay’s. It was being lowered and when he saw no women or children around and no one else was getting in he took the one of the seats.
Plus despite many people’s misconceptions it wouldn’t have mattered if there were enough lifeboats for everyone. There simply wasn’t enough time to launch all the boats. The last launched wasn’t even technically launched, instead it floated away and was nearly pulled under due to suction/undertow.
@@MrBaritone38because it was a massive ship, a number of the passengers stayed below, and a number of the passengers hesitated to get into the lifeboats in the first place, there were no more passengers in the area, hence Ismay got in. The world isn’t black and white; a number of the lifeboats launched were actually underfilled, so by your logic, why didn’t they have more women and children?
They kept it close to the vest that the ship was sinking to avoid causing a panic. Ismay knew she was doomed. He should have tried harder to rescue more people. He sure made sure his butt was saved. I know the newspaper magnate hated him but he wasn’t totally off base.
The timing of the dialog is off.. they wouldnt have talked this Quickly.