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Problems With Uneven Ground And Straight Fences - Landscaping and Construction Tips
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- Опубликовано: 22 сен 2015
- www.homebuildingandrepairs.com... click on this link for more helpful videos about fences, remodeling and home repairs. Here's another one of those projects that might not last as long as it would have if the site was graded to the right height so that the concrete post footings wouldn't eventually be buried beneath the soil. If you're serious about saving money, you need to watch as many of these videos as you possibly can to increase your knowledge about some of the problems you could encounter, doing your next construction project.
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This video will provide you with some repair ideas - How To Fill Open Areas Under Wood Fences
ruclips.net/video/sLnt7xtnD08/видео.html
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge! When I'm researching a build topic and see you've posted a video about it, I watch yours first every time!
@@iamtheshaker Now that's a comment I love to see and thanks for sharing.
Here's a link to a video about pressure-treated lumber that might be helpful for those of you who think that all pressure-treated lumber is created equal.
ruclips.net/video/TheW4lynSkk/видео.html
gregvancom can you add concrete to the footing to add height after you've done a concrete footing?
Good video, and it is good common sense to get the concrete high as possible.
Wow! A PHD lecture in wood fence installation.
Great video. Thanks for you work.
My pleasure!
My company had built a park with pt 6 by 6 and concrete way below the about 3 inches below the dirt . Is pt kind of better pr wild the dirt still rot
Good video and your 100% correct. I am a fence builder and unfortunately when visiting with a client and such conditions like the one your showing is clearly evident, I always explain to them what we are working with, what the end product will look like and what the repercussions are if certain methods are not taking. With that being said those measures come with a cost and most of the time at least in my experience they don’t want to spend the extra money. I would normally use sonotubes in this case where the earth sits that far below grade and protect the post as much as I can but labor and material isn’t free. Most cases we will just seal the treated post as best we can and explain to the end user in the future some of the post will start to deteriorate and you may be calling me back to repair. All they see is a new fence and are happy, they don’t understand no matter how much you explain what goes on beyond those pretty #2 western cedar boards. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for sharing and I think there are only a couple of solutions, either grade the area before installing the fence, use ground rated pressure treated lumber or extend the footings as you suggested so that when someone else decides to pile dirt up against the wood posts, it will last a little longer
Or jus put a treated 1x6 or 1x8 horizontally along the bottom
Where I live it's quite hilly. Galvanized steel posts are commonly used with wood pickets to avoid the wood rot issue. A neighbor of mine, however, patched a downed portion of a fence with wood posts. The posts were less than 5' apart but it fell down six years in due to wind and wood rot. I can only imagine how much worse it would be if it was a wet climate or the posts were hit with landscaping sprinklers on a daily basis. If the client really can't afford to do it the right way, why not steel posts? No, they're not as pretty but you get used to them quickly.
Nice video 😃
Well my opinion unless you plan on putting a form around every fence post concrete levels itself out it’s not gonna be very much higher than the ground my fence has been in my yard for 17 years and the treated four by fours or as good as new. About a year after we installed them we treated the entire fence with Thompson water seal and as long as you take care of it and treat the wood it will last forever
I’m in South Florida and don’t have any problem with treated wood made for direct contact rotting out. Yes eventually , but the 2x4 and pickets are gone by then. Just now replacing some 4x4’s from 87. If your really concerned use metal posts with brackets made for 2x4’s. That’s how we did it in Austin because of the difficulty digging holes. My moms fence never needed new galvanized posts and they have been there since the early 80’s.
Well, that's nice to hear. I've seen fences stand for decades right next to other fences that have rotted and fallen over and the only thing I can think of is that it has something to do with moisture or excessive water around the wood posts.
addd a pressure treated kick board on the bottom and leave the cement higher in a sloping postion we been doing fences for 25 years
Henry Mendez different strokes for different folks
Its called a plinth.and there is no plinth on that fence .so if u put one on u will have no issue with the cap under the fence .
I would of V shapped a little, not going with the terrain but also not leaving that big gap.
Do I put my posts at the same hight on a sloped yard for a six foot fence
in northern states we only fill the post holes to a couple of inches below grade. the reason for this is because of our harsh winters frost heaving is an issue if you dome the concrete footer above grade. building practices for southern states are going to be different than building practices in northern states
Thanks for sharing that information with us and I've been trying to tell others the same thing for years now. There is no one solution that works everywhere around the world or I should say at least I haven't found one yet.
gregvancom a good upsell is using steel chainlink posts instead of wood posts. there are steel to wood adapters available for this application available at any fence wholesaler. no more rotting.
the video I was looking for.
I’ve been working with treated lumber for 25 plus years! Setting posts in soil, in concrete, on top of concrete, no concrete. It’s wood! The formulas for treated lumber has also changed a couple of times. I’ve replaced rotted treated posts in all of these situations more than I’d like to say. Some rot and some don’t.
Right on!!!!
Thanks for your comment for I just built a fence. On the post filled them with two bags of cement and backfill the last 8 inches with soil.
What does it mean you “back filled@ 8 inches
Any wood on concrete contact needs to have a membrane between concrete and wood I don't see what it project is
In the UK, concrete is used for posts. They also have concrete "gravel boards" to prevent the pickets from making direct contact with the soil.
Yeah my soil was not even as well. Before I redone my wooden fence. I put a about 1 foot concrete down and then i level it to my property wall and to my house wall then I have a level ground then I started to put my wooden fence up. Look great now
Just curious I am installing a similar fence pickets and posts will be level but there will be a 15 inch gap between one end of fence on bottom and other end can’t I just use longer pickets and cut to fit
That will work.
My property sits above my neighbors. I’m trying to level my yard and their stockade fence is low so my dirt would hit about 8-10 inches of the cedar fence. I can’t raise the fence. Do I just put a barrier of concrete block or gravel enough to keep dirt off of the cedar boards?
This is exactly my problem! I am thinking to add a gravel board as the bottom of the fence is rotten and unsightly. I would then dig out the soil that has been sitting around it, add some sort of water proof membrane to hold the soil togther and hide it all with large pebbles (ie not backfilling the gap)
I had watched this video prior to installing my personal privacy fence. My lovely neighbor after it was all built must have just became the fence expert came over and said "you know if the cement is above ground level over time it will push the post out." Showed me an example of one of mine that kind of looked like that however i wasnt fully convinced. Is there any truth to that?
I have heard of water in the ground freezing and forcing the fence post up, with the concrete. However, this wouldn't have anything to do with the concrete being above ground, because it would be pushed up as the ground expanded underneath the concrete footing.
A good gravel base up to the proposed dirt level and then cover the gravel with topsoil.
My last fence post is less than 12 inches below the soil. Do I need another foot of soil to set the post? Can I use the quick tube and pour cement into for the desired height I need?. The yard site slopes downward and I wanted a level top.
I like to go at least 18 inches below the top of ground or soil and I would think a cardboard tube would be fine.
My previous wooden privacy fence was built into the ground and a bunch of water damage so I replaced it with a vinyl fence. The fence company asked me if I wanted it to be level and I said yes. I wish they would have included an estimated gap size though. My neighbor's yard is lower than mine so I probably shouldn't backfill with soil. It needs something because I want to wash it without flooding my neighbor's yard as rainwater pools along the property line.
So what would you suggest to do instead of back filling to fill the gap???
Large boulders, lumber, concrete blocks and if you don't have any pets, maybe some type of low growing plants. I am planning on making a video and will put a link here when it is completed in the future for more information.
I live in south Florida and the fence I installed 12 years ago is still solid. I must add I did not use concrete for posts. We have had hurricanes and lots of rain in those 12 years. Don't waste your money on concrete people. Just pack in posts well and you will be fine.
I need to ask, how far did you bury the post into the soil and what type of wood did you use for the post. I heard that Florida soil is also very sandy and allows water to drain through faster.
ahahah. I went through a major hurricane in Florida back in 92 and if your fence was put in those conditions I guarantee your fence panels would be giant frisbees flying through the air. we had a 3/4 ton truck parked in front of a large window and after the hurricane it was on the other side of the yard.
This does not apply in Minnesota, where I live. Your whole fence would heave upward as the ground freezes.
Greg, My side of my fence is a foot below limits in which I'm looking into my neighbors yard. Is it possible for me to raise each section of the vinyl fence one to two feet? In between each panel I would like to build two feet of cinderblock and cement footing below grade and two feet of footing above grade, rebuild the post to form into each footing so that I can place the post back into the ground. This may seem a bit too much but I can only do one to two panels out of six at a time. I would also leave at least 24" of rebar to continue to the next section. I've looked on countless RUclips videos but I haven't seen anyone that has raised a fence by adding footings and placed the original fence back in. I do not want to install top panels because later on I would like to cement this section of my yard for a shed but cannot since the vinyl fence would be too weak and get damaged by the weight of the cement pad.
I don't see why not, as long as you can take it apart in sections, you can usually reinstall it in sections. It sounds like you have everything figured out, but you can also consider using concrete blocks instead of solid concrete walls, along with an underground concrete footing and yes the two foot rebar extension is a great idea for connecting it to the next one.
Gregvan, Thanks for understanding what I was trying to describe in one paragraph. I'm a definite fan of your site. Before I build items around my home I plan it out on paper. This will be my final job for 2017 and tons more 2018 and beyond. If you get the chance could you make a video for us "Day off DIY's" on how to plan out jobs like these. Yes I do plan and the work is performed well but the distractions like honey do list, children and grandchildren cars needing repairs always delay my start date.
I always like to hear great things about my channel and added you're request to my list.
Can you pre-treat the buried part of the post before you concrete it in? Emulsifier Like product.
I've heard good results from pre treating, but am not sure what works best.
If your using galvanize post, will this still be an issue? Thanks
I don't think it would
recenly had a neighbor's fence blow down. Whoever put it in was nice enough to have used an absolutely excessive amount of concrete. I ended up saving the fence panels and just drilling out the rotten wood with a big auger bit in a heavy duty drill. I coated the new post in a bunch of construction adhesive and pounded them into the concrete and put everything back together. it's good as new. Some pros would probably laugh at me, but ultimately even if it only lasts half as long this time (even though I can't see why it wouldn't hold up just as long since I drilled down to full depth and the concrete wasn't cracked) it would still be worth it because it cost us about $20 per post and a days worth of our time versus a couple grand for a new fence.
Some pros might've laughed at you, but I wouldn't have, because that's probably what I would've done. Good job on saving money and reusing your existing heavy-duty concrete fence post footings.
I buy 10 ft posts and bury them 42-in deep. I dig a 12-in diameter hole for a 4-in post and use compacted pea gravel instead of concrete. I've done it this way many times. The water drains through much better
what about using tar or wrapping Blue Skin on the bottom of the post that is exposed to wet soil ???
Would this still be an issue if the material wasn’t wood but a composite such as trex?
Not really. Trex won't rot.
Do you use a sauna tube and shore this up to the level then ?
You can. I think what you're suggesting is using solid tubes to wrap around the wood post at the bottom so that you can add additional concrete, thus raising the post footing so that the soil can be raised.
Will wrapping the bottom of the post prior to setting with concrete add to it's longevity?
ruclips.net/video/AZSWsn40TnY/видео.html This might help.
@@gregvancom i've been priming my 4x4;s with kiltz 36 inches from the bottom (a few coats).put the post 30 inches in the hole.leaves about 6 inches of primed ,treated post above grade.
I was a concrete finisher and form carpenter for 5 years and now I am a fence contractor. I also live in southwest florida where the ground is wet all year round. concete sucks moisture instantly if the soil is wet and holds pulls water towards the fence post. in about 5 years all you have to do is lean against the fence and it will snap over easily from rot. just about every wood fence tear out i have done this has been the case. just get a vinyl fence. It will last 2 or 3 times longer than wood.
Totally agree. I am replacing my girlfriend's stockade fencing she had installed about 15 yrs ago and the installers didn't use anything on the posts nor did they fill the holes in with concrete. I pulled them out to replace with taller posts and none of them were rotting. I'm in NY where we get our share of moisture- not as much as you though.
just seal the damn wood with rubberized paint before placing it in concrete it can't suck moisture through the rubber
vinyl is ugly and looks ghetto...seal the wood before installing and it will last 20years or more,,,just ask a farmer
Too much concern! Luckily, I have learned a lots "how to do install the fence" on RUclips. I installed the metal posts and regular pressure treated pickets and rails (2" x 3"). I should not have to worry too much in the future about my fence. it is very easy to replace the pickets. I used the cedar woods for the gates because the cedar woods are much lighter.
Brandon Key, I too live in FL, just bought island property and have been planning a new fence build. ALL posts were set in concrete and I DO NOT want to repeat that fiasco. The "soil" is basically sand. About 6 inches of gravel, set in PT 4x4, fill and pack with gravel. Hole will be 30" deep, 8' posts. Tell me everything wrong with this plan. maintaining standby. Thanx
What would you suggest? Form it higher, And pour concrete?
+junkmail1203 Yes I think that would be better than trying to seal the wood with some type of paint or sealer.
+gregvancom concrete sucks moisture out of the pole. it will cause rot itself.... wake up.. coat aka seal the damn thing with heavy rubberized paint.
You always want to concrete higher than ground level,sloping down to the ground.This let's the rain drain and not pool up around the post. I'm a landscape contractor and 9 times out of 10,people pour their concrete below ground level and move on to the next hole.And where does the post break???Right above the concrete,where water has pooled up and been rotting the post slowly for years.
is this true even if its treated 4x4 or 6x4's?
+c burg I have two treated 4 x 4's in my backyard that need to be replaced and I would imagine the fence is about 10 years old. Obviously I didn't build it, otherwise it might've lasted 12 years.
Use clement around the post it’s hardly to get wet or rot soil will rot.
You can coat the post portion that will be exposed to soil with a waterproof membrane you brush on this will buy you years.
seal the wood just above the concrete where dirt will contact. that would have the same effect as raising the level of concrete
With what?
But what to do if i already have that problem amd i need to fill will soil but the soil is going to scape to the other home yard?how to retain the soil?
I think the simplest method would be to simply pour more concrete around the fence post, before back filling. Simply do the best you can to create some type of a waterproof or even water resistant barrier between the wood in the soil.
@@gregvancom thank you so much ill try to do so and see if i do it right and it can retain the soil
If it's only a few inches, you could use bricks or concrete blocks to prevent the soil from going into your neighbors yard and in a way use them to prevent the soil from touching your wood posts, but if it's more than 8 inches, then you might need some type of retaining wall.
Question, the guy makes the mistake that you talking about un this video, now how may I delay that my fence post rotten faster?
Keep as much water away from it as possible.
Couldnt you just put like tar or a under body type stuff on 4x4 that needs back filled?
What would you have done differently and still maintained a straight line fence?
If you wanted to keep it straight on the top, then I would have back filled the lower area with soil, but if you didn't want to back fill the lower area was soil, then it could've been filled with some type of wood trim, 2 x 10's, rocks, bricks, concrete blocks and the one by six fencing. This isn't the first time someone asks this question and I will make a video in the future and post a link here when it's done to provide you with more information.
Why backfill with dirt or more cement? Why not just use longer pickets to shore up the difference along the bottom? Then cut the affected pickets straight and even to align with the others at the top 🤷🏽♂️
That would be too expensive. Many times fences come preassembled to a certain extent.
been 4 years how is the fence ?
He said he will update 10 to 20 years
Any updates on the post rotting
No the individual filled the space with scrap lumber, concrete blocks and never change the level of the soil. The fence still looks great and in good shape.
Educational and impressive. Question if you don’t mind. Installing pickets should you start on the higher or lower ground?
Either and don't forget sometimes you can start in the middle. It's something I would measure and see what works best.
It's a 3-1/2" wood post, lucky to get 5-7 years no matter how you install it!
What about galvanized sch 20 pipe
I've seen people use it with great results, but I've also seen it blow over in strong winds. I'm not a big fan of it, because it doesn't seem to produce strong fences, they seem a little flimsy.
Simple solution: Pour more concrete around each exposed post at a down slope,then fill with dirt.Boom.
If the plan was to backfill after the fact, couldn't you just fill and level the ground prior to setting the posts and cement?
Yes, create the surface you desire before you build.
Can’t you just use composite fence posts like a Trex so when you backfill to level, you are good to go. Aka composite does not rot to my understanding
I'm not a big fan of composite fence posts, but anything that wouldn't rot would be an excellent choice. I think the reason why they aren't being used is because they're too expensive, but I wouldn't use them because they haven't been thoroughly tested over time in my opinion.
its been 7 years can we have an update on that wood?
I drive by here a lot and it's all weeds blocking the view , but if I remember I will.
Or wrapped water proof covering and clement.
Ten to twenty years this will outlast the pickets
My fence is 20 years old. When it was built the concrete was brought to grade level. Out of 200 feet I have had 3 posts rot, 4 posts broken by high winds that showed no rot and 2 where the concrete wallowed out the hole. So fence building is full of variables and it ain't rocket science. Btw sandy soil vs clay. What are your miraculous observations.
Fence Design And Building Videos - ruclips.net/p/PLGyVeAgAJ-tkXRqWKi_iOedGXXHKBLHFo here is a list of my miraculous observations.
If the post is solid and the concrete is accessible, why not just add more concrete up to the desired grade level. Then fill in with dirt and plant some grass and stand back and admire your work.
Because you then would have a cold joint where water would seep in. And if you get freezing temperatures the it will crack. It sounds like a good idea but wouldn't last very long in my opinion.
Its been 6 years. What does that fence look like now?
They painted it and the paint is peeling. They used rail road ties I believe to block the bottom.
Water and moisture plus the heat are necessary to cause the wood rotting and decaying, however, the basic causal agents are saprophytic fungi (not bacteria) living in the soil. If soil is dry and cold, fungi could not chew the wood. Concrete surrounding the post may have enough moisture to soak into the wood, but fungi could not survive or mobilize in the cement. Eventually, if moisture and dirt, or wet dirt splash (through rain and spray) can build up enough around the post at the top part of the concrete, the wood rotting will be happen again. To prevent this, I would elevate the concrete and do not bury the fence and post under the soil. Washing the dirt away and protecting the naked wood from moisture and fungal spores with any means of isolation (i.e. applying oil or tar or sealant) would extend the wood durability.
Thanks for sharing and great information.
You are welcome and thanks for your kind reply. I had to payback for your video. I am a plant pathologist and tried to elaborate enough detail to rule out bacteria. There are many species of bacteria in the soil, but they are not decomposing agents. They would attack to growing plants or may exit symbiotically.
I'm not going to pretend like I know enough about the scientific process, but have learned a lot about how wood fence post are damaged and water seems to play an important role in the decomposition that leads to the removal and replacement of the damaged fence post. Plus why would I want to offend one of the world's greatest boxers :)
Thanks Greg. It is all nice of you. My comments were just some background addition to your fantastic video to be used by curious people. I loved Muhammad Ali and enjoyed following him since I was a kid. When he picked my name, I was 2.
You're welcome and I also enjoyed watching him as a child growing up. Did he actually pick your name? Your family knew him?
The grade should have been raised and compacted and let set ahead of time before installing fence.
That's what I would've done.
Preach
Ayup.. usually the best way to solve a problem is to avoid it in the first place... Lol
@@nbco55 thanks for making me smile!
yes it is a bacterial problem, but the bacteria grows when there is moisture present.
So you are correct the moisture enters the posts and causes the problem.
if you tar the bottom of the fence post it will last much longer.
Mix 1/2 motor oil (can be used) and 1/2 diesel and paint off the wooden posts and boards to preserve.
Ok thanks ill try 😊
Smear dog excrement on the bottom of the post it will not rot after that
@@thegeneral3094 smear it on your ass
Thanks for this video.
You're welcome
one $15.00 can of brush on creosote applied to entire post and bottom and 4" above ground level will solve all rot problems period.
Solves the rot problem and creates a pollution runoff concern (at least over time).
@@kevinm8865 only for you
@@doddgarger6806 lol
Chemicals in concrete rot posts too
Excellent point.
Yeah, those posts will rot about the same time It needs to be replaced anyways.
hey junk mail
Something that might work. Paint the bottom of the post and concrete top with a truck bed liner sealer. You can buy roll on liner in a can. Pouring concrete on top of already dried concrete will probably not work. you can't seal the two surfaces to make them water proof.
bef linner wont adjere to wood for long.
water will enter betwreen linner and post and rot faster.
U can build it to the contor of the ground
Good point.
reading all these comment re:rotting fence posts.....have you folks never heard of AC2 treated ground contact posts?????
This guy brings up a good point and for those interested here's a link to a video that might be helpful. ruclips.net/video/TheW4lynSkk/видео.html
Exactly!
so what you going to fkn do on the other side of the fence?? how you gunna build that area up?
If I was going to add soil to one side, then I would add it to the other side. If you have a different situation, feel free to provide me with more details.
Use composite panels. They last lifetime.
We just got a new fence put in however the left side is not leveled out and it’s bothering me that these so called construction guys didn’t know how to handle this ..
Right? I feel like in so many cases I would have been better off doing the job myself
all you have to do is drop sand then pour concrete around the post again
My only problem with that is that there could be a separation point or crack between the top of the existing concrete in the bottom of the new concrete, allowing water or moisture to seep into this area a little faster than it would by absorbing into the concrete footing from the outside and working its way in towards the wood.
That's why you use aluminum fence post and not wood.
Just buy 8 ft fence boards and cut them to length.
That works.
Rather than just point out a problem about the fence, it would have been nice for you to suggest a fix. Is the fix to cut longer slats to account for the uneven ground? Is it to add a board or something on the bottom edge? It's nice that you're able to articulate the problem, but every problem should be the impetus for a solution, and that's what you're missing.
The point of the video was to figure out what you're going to do before you build a fence that's going to be 1 foot off the ground. I will make another video in the future and put a link here when it is completed to provide future viewers with a few ideas about fixing something like this.
3 or 13 more years left
What are the chances RUclips will be around in 10-20 years.
You've got a good point, but just in case.
I would have never spent money building on that surface. I think the only way to navigate that is with a retaining wall. Build the fence on that if its code.
Steel posts. That is all.
Solid titanium?
Use metal post not wood.
they have to fix the footings.
But bacteria in rot only occurs from moisture so that dude just likes to argue..... usually says things like he did about bacteria without actually thinking things through hence the likes to argue comment
Kind of a pointless video. Offered NO solutions to the current situation.
Yes, you aren't the first person to think I was going to provide you with some type of repair solution, when all I wanted to do was point out some of the problems from doing something like this AFTER it was built. I could've sworn I made a video, but will definitely go back and see what crack it fell into or make a new one and put a link here to provide you with a few solutions.
See if this helps, How To Fill Open Areas Under Wood Fences ruclips.net/video/sLnt7xtnD08/видео.html