Do NOT Use These To Build Your Fence!
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- Опубликовано: 2 дек 2023
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Let's figure this out once and for all! Which fastener is the strongest one you should be using to build your fence? We pit nails, screws, and staples against each other to see who comes out on top.
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👉🏻 Stainless Steel Screws: bit.ly/SWIStainlessScrews
👉🏻 15-degree Ring Shank Nails: bit.ly/15degringshank
👉🏻 Magnum Nail Gun: bit.ly/swimagnum
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Хобби
i’m glad y’all made this. i’ve had people tell me that ring shank nails aren’t strong enough to hold the pickets… but i’ve tried explaining to them that 9/10 when i hammer off a picket after i’ve attached it with ring shanks, the nails literally stay in the 2x4 rail and it pulls the nail through the picket. meaning the nail is simply not the weak point in the fence.
I use staples and I angle them left right, up down. Very fast and hold great that way. Gun is much lighter, application is faster and cheaper and less arm stress. Staples strap the fibers instead of anvil separating them like nails or screws.
My pattern- one high to the left angled and one low to the right angled. Appearance is superior, almost invisible! Nails leaves holes everywhere, even if you sink em deep which splits the board. Rust stain that some other fasteners leave is zero. Appearance great, hold great, cost great, arm fatigue minimal.
@@finallyfriday. Yup, slightly toenailing is the key to proper fastening technique, whether by screwing or nailing. This should be widely known in all of construction by now…but sadly isn’t.
@@TheBeeber Now I know!
@@finallyfriday. Being a roofer for 49 years. Pulling off plywood with staples or ring shank is the toughest. Those fasteners aren't failing, it's the wood. Those fasteners will still be in the posts.
@@billrehm3590 True. In all the demo work I've done it's VERY apparent that the wood has deteriorated. And even fasteners that have a degree of rust still have a lot of hold. Further, there's a limit to how much is needed and how much is just silly overkill. Otherwise they should build another Great Wall of China if they want a fence.
Not to complicate the results, but the pickets in the middle of the rail have the added benefit of the rail deflecting and deadening some of the force.
I do like the screws ( no pops, holds, weathers, maybe reuseable) But....(unfair) costly due to stainless nature. Best good homeowner choice.
On the other hand, ring shanks make the best contractor choice ( faster install, cheaper, holds). Not reuseable.
100% You can see how much more the board flexes to take the impact instead of the fastener taking the hit. Not that this is scientific test, but that aspect just makes that comparison even more invalid.
@patandsandytrierweiler2440 I have cows. I use 4" screws. They aren't a significant on cost, the timber is the real expense.
Great test, I use ring shanks for the fence pickets and screws when making gates, seems to work well and be the most cost effective. Cheers for taking the time to make this !
AWESOME TEST!! Thanks... Headed to go buy some screws..
Awesome video Dan and Team always appreciate the great content and totally agree it’s ringshank nail or stainless screws. You see a lot of diffrent people use roofing nails or incorrect nails and bleed on the cedar or even glue them on 😃
Realy good examples! As always very usefull!
The Wonder Woman spin into the lab coat needs to be in every "test" video!
I staple- one high and angled out, low angled in, angle up then down. Holds fantastic, fast, zero visibility unlike nails, zero rust staining, lighter gun, minimal arm fatigue, cheaper, quicker. Staples strap the wood where nails and screws split the wood.
It's gonna sound odd but we use stainless collated square drive subfloor screws on our fences and siding (including hardie plank). The collated drywall gun attachment can for it all! It's very fast compared to impact driver and its extremely consistent too. I hate having air lines being dragged around and before I used 2in stainless in a cordless framing nailer. Then we tried a dewalt cordless roofing nailer with ring shank(since no one makes a cordless siding nailer). The drywall gun does the best job and now we use it for tons of uses!
Crisscross the ring shanks, and it holds tight as ever
Awesome video! Thanks
well as a contractor in Ontario we my business and my workers use screws if we or any other contractor/home owners has to take out sections of fence for any reason they can unscrew it without cracks in the borads
Boom.
That's stepping over a dollar to save a dime.
The time it takes a guy to run in screws vs shooting them down with a nailer costs about 1000x what the pickets you'd be replacing cost. And you pay that even if nobody ever has to remove a section of fence.
Also, I can pop those boards off with a prybar faster than I can unscrew them. Because by that time, the screws are janky from age, and they're probably gonna strip out half the time, and the picket has to be pried off anyway.
As the wood ages as well I find screws show more superior fastening the entire life of the fence.
Over many years of having ice storms drop big branches onto our fence, I'm really happy with the nails being the weakest link. One and a half inch galvanized common nails allow the boards to pop right off without any other damage.
Sometimes the board fractures for being struck from above, but I keep a few spares.
I used deck screws 25 years ago. 1 by 1 by 1 etc. Tedious for sure but still in great shape.
Great video Dan you and your brothers do a great job on y'all's videos ! Could you do a video about using different types of wood. And whats the advantages of cedar vs pine or other wood . In Florida they always use pine I guess because because it's readily available & cheaper. On a trip to Colorado I noticed some privacy fences were put up with round pipe y'all's steel post look stronger maybe a video there. Have a good one . Good catch on the hammer avoiding serious injury there that could have been bad , you would have never live that down !
We used coated #9 x 1 5/8 deck screws about 13 years ago. Fence is just fine , with just a little rot where pickets touch ground. I will be replacing the fence pickets this year.
Great video and extra testing at the end. I would love to know if shooting nails at slight opposing angles on a picket increases the strength.
3:15- I like the way the hammer swings back and helped drive back in the nail it previously loosened. Hammers have a mind of their own.
I'm using collated, clip head ring nails in an old Bostitch gun and it seems to be working just fine.
At the end of your video, you show the straight versus high/low nailing. I would suggest that if you nailed at a 15-25 degree down angle, you would have even better holding power as most fence hits are perpendicular, without any uplift. That's how we have been doing it for 30 years, and the pickets always rot out ahead of the holding strength of the fasteners. Great video.
How long are the fasteners your tested?
1 3/4”?
I have seen a lot of fences with staples. Contractors use them to save $ on fasteners.
They’re good for one thing I believe. Stained boards. It makes the stained board look prettier without seeing the ring shank head.
That’s it though.
Thanks, I agree, screws are the best. I have used a 2nd fix air powered nailer for this - useless, the nails go right through the thinner part of the plank in feather-edge planks and the planks can be pulled right off with my hand.
@swi fence. Can you update and maybe try subfloor nails? The ones w ridges to prevent movement? That's what I used this last weekend for a fence 1.5 in
That was a great product test, lab coat is a great video tool to!
I used stainless finish nails just to hold the pickets on. After all pickets where on i used baby powder in a chalk line to make a straight line for the brown coated T-20 screws. I used two screws about an inch in from the edge of the picket at each rail crossing. After a few rains the baby powder washed away and the brown coated screw blend into the stained cedar color nicely. I am not a fence contractor, just a homeowner wanting to do a very good job. So the extra time taken wasn’t a big deal for me. All together was about 300' of fence done this way.
As for staples: divergent point would make a big difference. They spread when driven in the wood, making pullout much more difficult.
As a framer, the staples hold osb almost impossible to remove a sheet when making a change, as for fencing, I've used them both
Great informative and entertaining vid's keep up the good work. Cheers!
Thanks!
Great
Video and comparison 👍
Thanks!
Hot dipped galvanized ring shank nails good for fencing?
I've been using staples for a long time with great results. You confirmed my suspicion that they are almost the best and they are definitely good enough.
Put the staples in on an angle. Criss cross the angle
I'm too in love with my ring shanks right now, but I'll have to give it a try sometime. 👍🏻
@@SWiFencelugging that heavy gun for thousands of nails? No thanks. Staples gun for me.
We have used staples for a long time too, they are nice because they don't split the wood like a nail might and have good holding strength.
If you put the staples in an X pattern of any direction, it creates a mechanical connection.
Finish carpenters would call it threading a nail/staples by putting 2 in an X if there was no stud.
I mainly use coated screws because thats what customers ask for here.
Use the brad nailer to tack them and then screw them in. Works great.
Great science! (I particularly like how our master scientist continues to generate data until the point when data confirms his hypothesis.) Thanks for the vidja.
I have cedar fencing from a box store that is older than 15+ years old. Stapled and still holding.
Don't be so cheap use three nails per board It might hold together a little better. It also helps with the boards not cupping. Staples are not corrosion resistant🤔
I've never used staples on a fence we use screws or ring shank nails, but we use staples on plenty of other things. Its the glue that really adds the holding power IMO. I would think staples would rust off pretty fast in wet climates not to mention stain the wood.
Galv or ss staples. Being buried they're fairly invisible and even more weather protected.
I used the SS screws on mine. I can use them again and again and again.
Can you do some type of review it use rail brackets bs toe nail?
cool, thx for sharing
You bet
Exterior grade self tapping torx screws only.
Were you wearing an abdominal guard (cup)? That hammer almost got you! Great channel! Thank you!!🇺🇸
10 degree angulation on the smooth nails! that would be interesting if a little angulation would be a fun test.. ( angle and angulation are similar but angle is less fun to say)
Thanks Bro!
For sure!
WHAT Size ring shank nail?
I use rosin coated staples. Nearly impossible to pull out .
Fun video.. I have build allot of DYI fences and have had the "screw" vs "ring shank" argument many times. One thing you didn't mention or test here is how well the fence will hold up after the wood dries and contracts over the years. I live in a very dry climate at altitude.. Lots of UV etc. I have had to tear down or repair numerous fences that used ring shank nails that have failed as the wood dried and pulled away from the nail. I use screws for this reason. I have ten year fences using screws that are still solid. As a DIY home owner I realize my experience is very limited. Screws take a long time and I can see why this would be a difficult choice for a professional as it would greatly increase labor costs. Just curious about your thoughts on the affect of climate here.
You make some great points! We didn't take climate into effect here. The real point of this test is to show the ridiculousness of some of the methods (that are even being taught in other corners of the internet).
For some picket repairs on a fence already well past it's prime, looks like I'll just use some staples out of my M12 stapler and call it a day.
Thanks.
No worries!
The ring shank with coil gun is what i was taught screws take way tp long . I worked for a fence company in oklahoma a couple actually . These days i do hardwood floors but thinking about going back to fence work . Waiting to save for the tools to go out on my own . Yall got great videos . Where im at the neighborhood is about 24 years old maybe 20 but the fences are worn the f out and im just hoping it may be a good change that could bring me a neighborhood to start . Any advice on bringing this idea to life . The works not the problem it is the business how do you start alone ?
You should check out our Successful Contractor channel. There might be some beneficial stuff there for you. 👍🏻 www.youtube.com/@SuccessfulContractor
What about rings shank framing nails?
Have you guys come across a battery powered coil nailer that can take the 15 degree wire ring shank nails? I with they would fit in the Dewalt roofing gun but they don't... i have tried.
Same here.
Roofing coils don’t work on those guns. And the gun weighs a ton loaded up.
Are the staples with glue ? Are the staples stainless?
Maybe need stainless ring shank staples with glue.
Nails should never be driven straight in if you want durability and strength. I have built many fences with straight-shanked nails and they are still strong and not needing any re-setting after 15 years. We get lots of wind where we live, so we use 2 nails/board at different angles and never use less than 3 rails. This works really well for wind breaks for livestock out in the stock yard as well. Cheers from Alberta, Canada.
What were the length of your fasteners?
So finish nail to hold em jus enough to come back and fastened them with screws
The real difference shows years down the road when the wood dries out. I always use screws.
I used the coil nailer with ring shank nails…but this makes me think staples woulda been fine
If i could find them, I'd use HD galvanized ring-shanked roofing nails.
All smooth shaft fasteners need to be driven at slightly opossing angles.
thats what she said!!! Why does everyone need to say stuff like that ... I didnt come up with it..
Somthing you did not account for is hitting in the middle area of 2x4 vs toward the end where it is more stiff... that is why ring Shank is popping out rite on the edge where there is no flex like the middle of the 2x4
The thing to remember is that wood moves. It expands and contracts which is why i don't use screws. Screws will not move with the wood so the wood either splits or the screw heads snap off and are hard to get out. Nails move with the wood and can simply be replaced when they fail.
That’s exactly what I was expecting. Ring shanks are a close second and way faster. Plus, screws don’t look right in pickets.
2" staples r fast & effective
Deck screws only!
IIRC- for wood dog-ear/plank fence 2x4 stringers on 8' 4x4 posts?- 4d spirals for the boards, 10d ring-shanks for the stringers , both galvanized .
I loved using a pneumatic palm-nailer. Bostich 😉. Forget a silly nail-gun. And screws? LOL, you got to be joking.
For post-setting 2' holes (IIRC) 1/2 bag of concrete for line posts, 1 whole bag for corner posts, and gate posts) bevel the post holes wider at the bottom. - Makes it real fun for people to "try" to pull them out 20-30 years later LOL. I know, because I had to demolish one of my own fences about 15 years after I built it , when Katrina decided to smash a few big oak trees on it. I ended up just cutting most of my old posts down to ground level , and off-setting new post/holes 2' foot off in undisturbed ground. It was harder to knock down my old fence than building the new one.
for mounting gates/fittings , I used galvanized/ or provided coated lag screws, or lag/carriage bolts(sometimes).
And a 2wheel Ground-Hog Auger is a must have, if you run alot of fence😎 , or rent one for a single fence job .
What about a fence stapler?
i use 2" ring shank nails
The champ is a 1.75" ring shank stainless roofing nail.
So THAT'S where you are hiding your gold!
Nasty comment!! Plus I would not recommend a high low nailing pattern, clearly a low high would be superior. Lol. Great work Dan and team.
Ever looked into Scrails? Speed of a nailgun but the grip of a screw
We are currently working on that!
The fence on my house is 30 y/o and they stapled on the pickets and they are only now starting to fail and come out as the wood itself rots.
As below if those nails go in at 30/40/50 degrees they definitely hold better,
You put a flat washer on the screw it will hold a lot better.
What was the moisture content of each board? J/K. Nice example dude.
😆🤣
Buddy of mine shot a ring shank framing nail through his hand while framing up walls. They were able to slide it out of his hand. Went back to work afterwards and got a speaking to about wasting nails
😬
So what kinds of coil gun do I use for ring shank
We use a 15° coil nailer.
And the hell you didn't have a failure on the ring shake. It's what you use so give it another chance. Even though it failed the first time.
Познавательно! как всегда - молодец!
Большое спасибо!
The coil gun you used for the ring shanked nails, is that a regular framing gun? I have a 21 degree framing gun, can I use that and use ring shanked galvanized nails to install the fencing or is that too powerful for the pickets?
I have a 21° framing gun and just used it last week with ring shanked galvanized nails and it worked great. Adjust the compressor PSI to what works for your gun and nails.
@@glmaddox0251 great tip thanks!
Pretty sure that’s a little too powerful for the pickets. You may end up going right through them. We use a 15° coil nailer.
@@SWiFence Thanks. What PSI do you have your compressor set to?
I believe 80 psi
I always used screws on my fences..and NEVER have had ANY fences failed
This was awesome. The jackass that built my fence used drywall nails, only put posts 12" down and little to no cement, didn't use treated ground contact posts or treated pickets. My posts rotted in about 2 years. Now I'm rebuilding it myself because the only one around that builds wooden fences is the jackass that built mine, for the builder, I sure as hell won't use him.
😬 Sounds like a builder to avoid.
You use stainless steel ring shanks made for fencing
Stainless ringshank siding nails out of a gun, only way to go, they've got the best appearance and least staining and corrosion. Shoot them shallow and use a nail set to avoid hammer marks. Cedar is so acidic that there will be some staining even with stainless, but it's minimal. If you want an authentic "olde" look use non-galv, non-stainless regular steel and you'll get a big black streak under each nail.
Staple might hold better but they look like ass, forever. Screws look bad, period, and they split the wood at the fastener.
I personally have used screws only
Curious, is there an argument that weaker but not the strongest fasteners are sometimes better because if majority or wood fences fail at the posts due to high winds and the fasteners are too strong, the only movement is that can happen is at the post. If the fastener is weaker, the pickets will fail which are easier and cheaper to replace than the posts?
Staples also didn’t split the wood. If the wood splits that’s just as much of a failure as the nail coming out… your fence board is gone
First and can confirm Dan only had 1 beer in this video
Ooh, a beer and a video. That sounds like a good combo! But I can attest that I am this happy naturally, without beer. 😄
For petes sake, just just use short coated deck screws.. You have technology now so you don't have to do it with a screw driver..grab a cordless driver and hand full or short deck screws and your done and it beats every one of your methods..and it will pass ur hammer test easy. Yes it takes a LITTLE more like a whole two seconds longer...gesh..😊
You obviously don't build fences for a living but only as a homeowner. Anybody that does knows that I can drive six ring shank nails out of a gun in the amount of time it takes you to put one screw in. Why 6 nails? Because i tend to build 3 rail fences. Better, stronger h will lastonger
@@michaelrichardson5505 That's bullshit, you know for a fact coated screws WILL last longer than nails. This is why they called deck screws!!! ( if not then you just protecting ur pride) And with a automatic screw gun you can install just as fast.. You wanna come over I'll be more then happy to prove my point. Also, if the fence gets damaged from storm, tree or whatever you simply UNSCREW the screws and replace then add new. You can't do that with shanks/nails. Seems like your completely forgetting about hole rott. Send me a google earth link of some of your fences you did that way. Let the world see for them selves let's see the sag and warps. We can compare. I know I'm right, my fences made it through 3 hurricanes and many tropical storms. Nails suck..and do not lend to longevity. To fix the hole rott, we add a dab of roofer sealant with a chalk gun it comes in transparent now, our holes look the same years later as the day we install. Your just 100% wrong and clueless to how science works...much less fences..try to be more humble, and not so arrogant. Listen and test, not brag and boast. You wear ur feelings on ur sleeve..don't be so sensitive. Especially if u make RUclips videos and post shit online. How stupid can you be..be a better installer not a better douch..😂
Almost got a bonus cooking video about scrambled eggs.
🤣
Those staples work very well
hmmm, i wonder what would happen if the nails were put in on opposite angles from each other
Are your 1 5/8 inch screws too long ever on your 2x4 rails??
Nope--perfect length. 👍🏻
@@SWiFence even if you use typical 2x4 rails that measure 1.5in thick?
Do the test again but this time put all nails/screws with a slight downward or upward angle. Since you put 2 on the top and another 2 on the bottom you put them like \ / on both top and bottom. Then you are not pulling them straight out which is their weakest point
I have actually seen people using a finish nailer for things like that.
🤦🏻♂️
You don’t mention a screw gun with auto feed screws? That's a game changer.
I use screws!!! Our company wants us to use nail gun though... for speed
Screws do take forever.
Drywall screw gun with auto feed. Not slow
You need ringshank staples.
I use drywall screws
Better yet, use drywall screw gins with auto feed screws
My next diy home fence will be finish nail and wood glue
why…. did you not just see that they’re not a sufficient enough?? just use ring shank nails or screws and you’ll never have a problem
@@iamdrewski39 production guys can't afford wood glue
Glue isn’t going to do anything for you. Use screws
@@dsulli7383 you've never done it. Looks better, takes longer, you'll never like it