The pen broke! I can't believe no-one noticed it, but the pen clearly breaks with Dante's last hammer strike at 22:20. Brian then flips it around to the other side so it does not show. This dishonesty was unexpected, the Goulet Pen Company.
@@GPngts I watched it several times and could not see any break, and then Brian hammered it a few more times and it still didn't break. I challenge anyone to watch for themselves.
@@roderickfemm8799 You need to be watching in high resolution on a big screen to see it. Someone has made a screenshot below: m.imgur.com/a/QLDJ1Ak Of course everyone should judge for themselves.
You need 2 cameras and better camera placement, it must have been very disturbing to talk to you while trying to make eye contact with the camera PS : the pen definitely broke still looks much more durable than classic resin pens
As an Italian who lived three years in the US, I am so proud of you Dante! The cleverness, the curiosity, the accent, everything makes me proud of my Italian origin but also happy to have spent three wonderful years in such a great country!:)
As an American with a family that is proud of their Sicilian heritage I always wanted to spend time in Sicily and Italy. I'm glad you had a good time in America. We have our troubles sometimes but the people are usually nice.
Drew Snyder as an Italian who has lived both in the States and Sicily, yes Americans are generally very nice and yup, Sicily is shatteringly beautiful and you should visit. They also need the tourist money...
I was on the fence about this pen. Now I am for sure going to get one! The design and form is genius and gorgeous! He even put together the exact color I want!
It would be a lot of fun to have it come in pieces with a little hammer and let you assemble it yourself. That would be a hoot! It’s a very pretty pen.
ALWAYS fun when Mr Del Vecchio is on!!! Love the way you two interact!! I could NOT have taken that hammer to His pen for any dare, no way, just could not have done it!!! Great show today, thank you!!!
Dante is such a sweet person, and I love that he really thinks about the design of the pen as it relates to the pleasure of writing. These new Avatars look interesting, and it is great they are affordable from such a great designer. However, the Avatar Arco is still on my most wanted pens list.
Really enjoyed the engineering side of this. If there is a challenge it would be the seal over the injection moulding hole used to centre the cap and how good a seal that proves to be. Really cute design and assembly, very cool... they’ll be selling kits next where you can pick your own parts to put together you ideal pen!
Fun video. I love my "breakable" Lipstick Red Avatar it writes and caps like a dream! I really want the Abalone Green now.🤦🏽♀️ If Brian ever gets the opportunity I think it would be interesting to learn more about Dante in an interview...did he like pens as a boy?, how did he come to designing pens?, how many pens in his collection?, what fills his spare time? Etc...
There's an older Q&A episode with him that touches on it a bit, but could definitely get to know more about Dante: ruclips.net/video/moAMDurCPRk/видео.html - Colin
Watching Brian and Dante have a blast was a lot of fun. I was gifted an Avatar that I'll never sell because of the sentimental value. It's also a smooth writer - and the sound of the magnetic cap closure is so satisfying! Pineider is definitely on my watch list for other models.
GENIAL. Este señor es un espectáculo de persona. Su pasión por lo que hace y lo que disfruta con sus productos hace que den ganas de tener al menos uno.
Dante! You are a fun guy!! I still remember Brian throwing his Karas Kustoms pen across his parkinglot and now he's trying to smash a Peneider with a hammer! I had an uncle who was a great salesman selling his tools by throwing them on the shop foreman's concrete floor and daring him to do the same with any of his other tools. You made my smile hurt! I love the practicality you build into your pens too. Thanks Dante. Thanks Brian. Very cool (and, yes, I love the blue color too!)
Great video! Dante is always interesting. Enjoyed seeing the engineering start to finish and pen assembly. Great to hear the philosophy of the maker behind the pen.
My husband gifted me the one with the gold quill nib, in neptune blue, for our anniversary from Goulet Pens. I absolutely love it!! Will Dante be talking about the Pineider Metropolis as well? Would love to see what he has to say.
I believe it just shifted the cap & barrel alignment a bit (I slowed it down for a better look!) Plus, saw both of the pens after filming. Very much still intact. - Colin
I'm curious to see if Pineider will be releasing any oversized style pens in the future. I love my La Grande Bellezza, but it's a very "normal"/medium sized pen and I'd love to see something bigger from them.
this wouldnt have caught my eye 6 months ago but since i had my pen crack for the first time (without even dropping it i dont know how) i feel this kind of feature is awesome for a long lasting everyday carry pen
I don't know how much influence you have with Dante, but could you possibly suggest that he design a pen with a resin section? I absolutely love the look of the Grande Bellezza, and this Avatar looks great too, but I can't stand using pens with metal sections. I love Dante's design philosophy, but this one issue is stopping me from getting a Pineider pen.
Hey Brian (or Colin) is there any chance you will stock these with a Broad Nib? Yes, I know I'll have to compete with Rachel (and I know that's a losing battle for me) but I do like the broad nibs and I love Dante's design work!
I believe they are only available with F or M out of the gate. I think depending on the popularity/success they may add more nib options down the line (EF/B/Stub possibly) - Colin
I think that's the point he was addressing when he talked about mirror polishing the interior of the mold and how most companies don't bother to take the time to do it.
@@therealdonnawagner At one time I worked in plastic injection molding and everybody polishes the interior of the mold. You have to or it will show on the piece. But using a mold will leave a seam where the pieces of the mold come together - either on the side or the ends of the barrel and cap.
@@sicilianeye Ok. I'm aware of how injection molding works, myself, but my comment was purely based on what he was saying. Neither I nor Dante ever stated that companies don't polish their molds "at all". He said they don't take the time to polish it to a mirror finish. Also, if you listen to what he says (starting somewhere around 12 minutes), it sounds like it's a male female type of mold (think: kind of like a headphone jack). In that case, seaming would be more likely to occur on the top and bottom, both parts that could be easily buffed and will be covered by other components, thus leaving the display area of the pen pristine and free from weakness that can occur along seams. Just my interpretation of what he was explaining. At any rate, it's not worth quibbling about. LOL He made a pen that looks like it's worth trying, so I'm gonna check it out. 😊👍👍
I like how the assembly demonstration showed that there is no snake oil in the promotional materials of Pineider, and definitely! EDIT: But hey, what about the nib? I don't mean it's hammering resistance. I mean some basic specifications, compatibility etc.
Not much to say about the nib. Rhodium player steel nib. #6 sizing. F & M for now. Definitely check out our Nib Nook to see writing samples: www.gouletpens.com/pages/nib-nook - Colin
My only question--what's up with the name of "angel skin" for the pink one? That just doesn't sound too great in English IMO--maybe it's better in Italian?
Yeah, that has caused some creeped out faces here in the GPC office. We do think it's probably nicer in Italian (pelle d'angelo) and just didn't translate too well. - Colin
Will these only be available in fine or medium nib? If so, can they be changed out (sorry if this was covered in the video, I'm at work until about 8 pm tonight, PDT.
There is the "Survived Brian Goulet Voiding Product Warranty" quality guarantee, and then there's the "Survived Company President Bringing Product to Brian Goulet To Make Sure He Did His Worst" quality guarantee.
We haven't tested it yet, so it's possible the curvature might trip it up. That said, they both use the same Bock feed so we think it would fit on the Avatar! - Colin
Which then leads to the question--will he do a pen w this Ultra resin (especially the abalone) but quill nib? my LGB is one of my favorite pens--would love a hybrid of the two
Can anyone suggest me the best fountain pen under 45 dollars. I currently have a pilot metropolitan and i want to step up a little bit from that. I don't like triangular grip so safari is off the boat . I was thinking about platinum cool or waterman hemisphere can you put some light on these two and suggest some more pens
TWSBI ECO immediately comes to mind. Piston filler so has a higher ink capacity than the Metropolitan. Good writer with lots of nib options to choose from. Kaweco Sport is another option, especially if you're taking it on-the-go a lot! - Colin
@@Gouletpens i currently have a fine nib on the metropolitan so i was thinkink to buy a pen with another nib option. So is the medium nib on the eco a good one and also share your thoughts on platinum cool and waterman hemisphere
Don't have experience with the Hemisphere as it is not a pen we offer, but the Platinum Cool is a decent choice. Think there are better options for the money. - Colin
@@Gouletpens so if you have to choose between twisbi eco and kaweco sport which one would you choose . Also i have metropolitan in medium nib so which nib size should i use as i am a student
The Goulet Pen Company I agree except it seems that that most all other brands when you get to 3,4 and 500 dollars they are gold nibs and a built in filling system. Montegrappa and Pineider excepted. I really only like converters, and I have some steel nibs that write exceptionally well. It’s just other brand Pelikan as an example use gold nibs in upper pens.
Want a real test? Send it to me for a week and sees how it goes! I either have to be delicate with things or the things have to be rugged to survive me!
@@Gouletpens Thanks for clarifying. How would the nib compare to something like the Pilot 74 or a similarly priced, "flexible" nib? Stainless steel sounds like it might be on the stiff side.
Definitely doesn't have the bounce or flexibility that a gold nib (on the Custom 74) offers. Not necessarily the best option for line variation or springiness but it does offer a very smooth writing experience, better than some gold nibs I've used. - Colin
Go to 21:26 to see Brian & Dante try to smash it with a hammer! - Colin
The pen broke! I can't believe no-one noticed it, but the pen clearly breaks with Dante's last hammer strike at 22:20. Brian then flips it around to the other side so it does not show. This dishonesty was unexpected, the Goulet Pen Company.
@@GPngts I watched it several times and could not see any break, and then Brian hammered it a few more times and it still didn't break. I challenge anyone to watch for themselves.
@@roderickfemm8799 You need to be watching in high resolution on a big screen to see it. Someone has made a screenshot below: m.imgur.com/a/QLDJ1Ak
Of course everyone should judge for themselves.
You need 2 cameras and better camera placement, it must have been very disturbing to talk to you while trying to make eye contact with the camera
PS : the pen definitely broke still looks much more durable than classic resin pens
As an Italian who lived three years in the US, I am so proud of you Dante! The cleverness, the curiosity, the accent, everything makes me proud of my Italian origin but also happy to have spent three wonderful years in such a great country!:)
As an American with a family that is proud of their Sicilian heritage I always wanted to spend time in Sicily and Italy. I'm glad you had a good time in America. We have our troubles sometimes but the people are usually nice.
Drew Snyder as an Italian who has lived both in the States and Sicily, yes Americans are generally very nice and yup, Sicily is shatteringly beautiful and you should visit. They also need the tourist money...
@@annafdd lol I'd love to visit. Favaro family history is in the olives of Sicily and I've heard story of the beauty of the orchards... One day.
Drew Snyder I am Sicilian and back to Sicily now! Favara is also the name of the village closest to mine!:) come visit us!
Drew Snyder you really made me feel at home!
SOLD! Looks like I'll be adding a third PIneider pen to my collection! Great interview, Dante is a pleasure to listen to!
Please tell me there is a red one and it is named Dante's Inferno.
Really a missed opportunity to do with Devil Red instead! Maybe a special edition color down the line.... - Colin
I love Dante! I want a Pineider Pen.
He's a character, isn't he? Quite the vision for fountain pens too. Think I make take the plunge on these Avatars as my first Pineider pen! - Colin
I was on the fence about this pen. Now I am for sure going to get one! The design and form is genius and gorgeous! He even put together the exact color I want!
Meg SmileyThey are even more beautiful in person. I saw him at the LA show a week ago and saw the pens and the demonstration.
@@cliffordbaker4930 Thank you. I can't wait for Goulet to release them!
It would be a lot of fun to have it come in pieces with a little hammer and let you assemble it yourself. That would be a hoot! It’s a very pretty pen.
Thank you, Brian and Dante. It's always a delight to hear from Dante.
ALWAYS fun when Mr Del Vecchio is on!!! Love the way you two interact!! I could NOT have taken that hammer to His pen for any dare, no way, just could not have done it!!! Great show today, thank you!!!
Dante is a class act, this was a joy to watch!
Dante is such a sweet person, and I love that he really thinks about the design of the pen as it relates to the pleasure of writing. These new Avatars look interesting, and it is great they are affordable from such a great designer. However, the Avatar Arco is still on my most wanted pens list.
Really enjoyed the engineering side of this. If there is a challenge it would be the seal over the injection moulding hole used to centre the cap and how good a seal that proves to be. Really cute design and assembly, very cool... they’ll be selling kits next where you can pick your own parts to put together you ideal pen!
I am impressed!! Also, I just love listening to Dante's accent and he just seems so sweet!
Fun video. I love my "breakable" Lipstick Red Avatar it writes and caps like a dream! I really want the Abalone Green now.🤦🏽♀️ If Brian ever gets the opportunity I think it would be interesting to learn more about Dante in an interview...did he like pens as a boy?, how did he come to designing pens?, how many pens in his collection?, what fills his spare time? Etc...
There's an older Q&A episode with him that touches on it a bit, but could definitely get to know more about Dante: ruclips.net/video/moAMDurCPRk/видео.html - Colin
I love to see Anthony Hopkins talking about fountain pens :)
Watching Brian and Dante have a blast was a lot of fun. I was gifted an Avatar that I'll never sell because of the sentimental value. It's also a smooth writer - and the sound of the magnetic cap closure is so satisfying! Pineider is definitely on my watch list for other models.
Wow! Fascinating! Wonderful interview.
I'll definitely be picking up at least one of these when you get them in. That resin is beautiful along with its clear strength.
Probably my favorite video so far.
GENIAL. Este señor es un espectáculo de persona. Su pasión por lo que hace y lo que disfruta con sus productos hace que den ganas de tener al menos uno.
Dante! You are a fun guy!! I still remember Brian throwing his Karas Kustoms pen across his parkinglot and now he's trying to smash a Peneider with a hammer! I had an uncle who was a great salesman selling his tools by throwing them on the shop foreman's concrete floor and daring him to do the same with any of his other tools. You made my smile hurt! I love the practicality you build into your pens too. Thanks Dante. Thanks Brian. Very cool (and, yes, I love the blue color too!)
Great interview!! He is a lot of fun. Love the color of the blue!!! :)
Great video! Dante is always interesting. Enjoyed seeing the engineering start to finish and pen assembly. Great to hear the philosophy of the maker behind the pen.
Yes, would love to have this insight from other companies as well! Really helps understand the why behind a product. - Colin
Thank you so much for the video! Thank you Dante for making such a wonderful creation! Can't wait to get my hands on them! 😊
I love this interview Dante is so sweet!!
Just bought one, black, today. It’s beautiful and writes as well as any pen I’ve used. Love it already.
What a charming gentleman! And a great video and interview!
PS - Just went to your page and looked closely at them and those pens are beautiful
This was amazing! Thank you for sharing! Beautiful.
Just getting pictures of an injection mold is very cool.
I've heard about these things for decades but you rarely get to see one.
I loved these videos with Del Vecchio.
What a great interview, and so interesting to see how the pen can be assembled with no glue. Thanks for sharing this🙏🙏🙏
Love this guy!!! What a pleasure to each and learn
Grazie tanto!!!
This is the BEST!! Even if I didn't already have this pen on my list, Dante's enthusiasm would have convinced me! :-)
On one hand, this is super cool and makes me want one.
On the other hand, the old Avatar design looks 10x better, and I still just want one of those.
Great interview! I love it!
Love these videos
My husband gifted me the one with the gold quill nib, in neptune blue, for our anniversary from Goulet Pens. I absolutely love it!! Will Dante be talking about the Pineider Metropolis as well? Would love to see what he has to say.
It looks like the last smash at 22:20 fractured it, but it might just be my imagination. Still love my Avatar!
i saw it as well
I believe it just shifted the cap & barrel alignment a bit (I slowed it down for a better look!) Plus, saw both of the pens after filming. Very much still intact. - Colin
@@Gouletpens Good to hear!
I took screenshots of the frames right before and right after he hit it, at 22:20: imgur.com/a/QLDJ1Ak
Take this for what you will though
@@mrmoo9080 The barrel clearly broke, then Brian flipped it around to hide it. Very dishonest and disappointing.
I'm definitely going to have to get one of these now. I love that blue one
Beautiful pen. I think I need the Abalone Green...
I am impressed! Ordered one.
Super cool!
Great Demonstration!
Unbreakable indeed .
Wow. I need to get one of these pens.
Thanks!!! Dante you are an Artist... SOLD, I am buying one!!!
Dante is a very cool person
I'm curious to see if Pineider will be releasing any oversized style pens in the future. I love my La Grande Bellezza, but it's a very "normal"/medium sized pen and I'd love to see something bigger from them.
Richard Howard I second this! The world NEEDS an Oversize Pineider. Now.
Perfect. A pen designed to make me homesick for Firenze. I’m getting one.
It H-U-R-T-S when you guys hit the Avatar.
When Brain mentioned in a previous video that Dante Del Vecchio is a mad scientist, I wasn't sure what he meant. Dante is a legend!
this wouldnt have caught my eye 6 months ago but since i had my pen crack for the first time (without even dropping it i dont know how) i feel this kind of feature is awesome for a long lasting everyday carry pen
I don't know how much influence you have with Dante, but could you possibly suggest that he design a pen with a resin section? I absolutely love the look of the Grande Bellezza, and this Avatar looks great too, but I can't stand using pens with metal sections. I love Dante's design philosophy, but this one issue is stopping me from getting a Pineider pen.
Definitely something we can pass on! I know metal sections are a no-go for a lot of people. - Colin
@@Gouletpens Or get a technical finish like on a Rotring 600 grip section.
Perfect pen. Please make one in PURPLE, with a flex (or soft) nib and eyedroppable! :)
Great interview and demonstration. Superb rapport. And now I want the red/black demo Avatar UR. How is the EF nib for smoothness?
Yep, Dante makes me want one of his pens.
I would love to have an expresso with Dante and talk pens.
A LavAzza, perhaps.
I think you meant espresso 😉
Hey Brian (or Colin) is there any chance you will stock these with a Broad Nib? Yes, I know I'll have to compete with Rachel (and I know that's a losing battle for me) but I do like the broad nibs and I love Dante's design work!
I believe they are only available with F or M out of the gate. I think depending on the popularity/success they may add more nib options down the line (EF/B/Stub possibly) - Colin
@@Gouletpens - Thanks again Colin!
I can see the dents forming in the table as they mash the pens XD.
Fantastic! But is it eyedropper too?
The metal threads on the back of the grip section prevent it from being eyedropper converted! - Colin
Doesn't the injection molding leave a seam on the pen's cap and barrel?
I think that's the point he was addressing when he talked about mirror polishing the interior of the mold and how most companies don't bother to take the time to do it.
@@therealdonnawagner At one time I worked in plastic injection molding and everybody polishes the interior of the mold. You have to or it will show on the piece. But using a mold will leave a seam where the pieces of the mold come together - either on the side or the ends of the barrel and cap.
@@sicilianeye Ok. I'm aware of how injection molding works, myself, but my comment was purely based on what he was saying. Neither I nor Dante ever stated that companies don't polish their molds "at all". He said they don't take the time to polish it to a mirror finish. Also, if you listen to what he says (starting somewhere around 12 minutes), it sounds like it's a male female type of mold (think: kind of like a headphone jack). In that case, seaming would be more likely to occur on the top and bottom, both parts that could be easily buffed and will be covered by other components, thus leaving the display area of the pen pristine and free from weakness that can occur along seams. Just my interpretation of what he was explaining. At any rate, it's not worth quibbling about. LOL He made a pen that looks like it's worth trying, so I'm gonna check it out. 😊👍👍
@@therealdonnawagner Yeah, sorry if I sounded nit-picky. You're probably right about the process.
@@sicilianeye No worries. I do the same thing myself, sometimes. 😊
I will definitely be getting at least one of these puppies.
I have to echo the other comments..."Sold!" Been looking for a pen I can use at work, I think I found it.
Very classic looking, especially the darker colors. Very well-writing nib that should perform consistently too. Great option! - Colin
Will these be limited editions or will they be stocked regularly? I predict this Avatar will be a big seller!
Regularly stocked! Revamped the Avatar line for 2019. - Colin
What color is the pen they're working with? Is it the Neptune Blue?
I like how the assembly demonstration showed that there is no snake oil in the promotional materials of Pineider, and definitely! EDIT: But hey, what about the nib? I don't mean it's hammering resistance. I mean some basic specifications, compatibility etc.
Not much to say about the nib. Rhodium player steel nib. #6 sizing. F & M for now. Definitely check out our Nib Nook to see writing samples: www.gouletpens.com/pages/nib-nook - Colin
@@Gouletpens Ok, so basically the nib IS replaceble i.e. that's not some special nib compatible with only Pineider fountain pens. Thanks!
Dante please offer some model with a non-metal section.
Hi Colin, Wii a extra fine nib be available in the new Avatar ?
Not at this time, just Fine & Medium! - Colin
My only question--what's up with the name of "angel skin" for the pink one? That just doesn't sound too great in English IMO--maybe it's better in Italian?
Yeah, that has caused some creeped out faces here in the GPC office. We do think it's probably nicer in Italian (pelle d'angelo) and just didn't translate too well. - Colin
Will these only be available in fine or medium nib? If so, can they be changed out (sorry if this was covered in the video, I'm at work until about 8 pm tonight, PDT.
Only Fine & Medium available on the pen itself. It is a #6 nib, so you can swap if you have a Goulet/Edison/Nemosine #6 nib. - Colin
@@Gouletpens Sweet! Thank you.
There is the "Survived Brian Goulet Voiding Product Warranty" quality guarantee, and then there's the "Survived Company President Bringing Product to Brian Goulet To Make Sure He Did His Worst" quality guarantee.
Will his Quill nib fit in the Avatar?
We haven't tested it yet, so it's possible the curvature might trip it up. That said, they both use the same Bock feed so we think it would fit on the Avatar! - Colin
Which then leads to the question--will he do a pen w this Ultra resin (especially the abalone) but quill nib? my LGB is one of my favorite pens--would love a hybrid of the two
I love this pen but the 8.5mm section is so skinny. Can you ask them to make one with a 10.5+ (preferably 11mm) section? Please!
Yes I agree, I usually hold narrow grips higher, around the band, but the step down may be too much. Going to have to stick with my Estie.
Totally agree. I would LOVE an Oversize Pineider!
Where can I get a dante?
Florence! - Drew
How much!
It'll be $126 (www.gouletpens.com/collections/pineider-avatar-fountain-pens ) - Colin
@@Gouletpens Should be $123.45 :P
Can anyone suggest me the best fountain pen under 45 dollars. I currently have a pilot metropolitan and i want to step up a little bit from that. I don't like triangular grip so safari is off the boat . I was thinking about platinum cool or waterman hemisphere can you put some light on these two and suggest some more pens
TWSBI ECO immediately comes to mind. Piston filler so has a higher ink capacity than the Metropolitan. Good writer with lots of nib options to choose from. Kaweco Sport is another option, especially if you're taking it on-the-go a lot! - Colin
@@Gouletpens i currently have a fine nib on the metropolitan so i was thinkink to buy a pen with another nib option. So is the medium nib on the eco a good one and also share your thoughts on platinum cool and waterman hemisphere
Don't have experience with the Hemisphere as it is not a pen we offer, but the Platinum Cool is a decent choice. Think there are better options for the money. - Colin
@@Gouletpens so if you have to choose between twisbi eco and kaweco sport which one would you choose . Also i have metropolitan in medium nib so which nib size should i use as i am a student
I would choose an ECO with a fine nib. It'll be pretty comparable to that Metro Medium nib. - Colin
But aren’t these pens too expensive for not having a gold nib?
The Goulet Pen Company I agree except it seems that that most all other brands when you get to 3,4 and 500 dollars they are gold nibs and a built in filling system. Montegrappa and Pineider excepted. I really only like converters, and I have some steel nibs that write exceptionally well. It’s just other brand Pelikan as an example use gold nibs in upper pens.
I mean, sure, they hit it with a hammer, but have they tried giving it to my 2 year old?
Want a real test? Send it to me for a week and sees how it goes! I either have to be delicate with things or the things have to be rugged to survive me!
*insert Doctor Who Quote*
Dante with a hammer, what can be better?
Dante with a sledgehammer? - Colin
@@Gouletpens hahahaha, I thought he didi that with the Visconti Homo Sapiens
How to know if you're a pen enthusiast?
You cringed in horror while Brian and Dante were smashing their pen with a hammer... Urgh...! 😖
Someone else used a household hammer and I flinched with every blow.
That Bronze!
"More affordable, entry-level, daily carry,..." $130! Yikes.
In terms of Italian fountain pen brands, not too far off. But yeah, not entry-level in the general sense! - Colin
@@Gouletpens Thanks for clarifying. How would the nib compare to something like the Pilot 74 or a similarly priced, "flexible" nib? Stainless steel sounds like it might be on the stiff side.
Definitely doesn't have the bounce or flexibility that a gold nib (on the Custom 74) offers. Not necessarily the best option for line variation or springiness but it does offer a very smooth writing experience, better than some gold nibs I've used. - Colin
@@Gouletpens Properly polished tipping > improperly polished tipping.