Exactly this! Someone pointed out that a sympathetic villain, like Zuuko from The Last Airbender, can be compelling; but a pure evil villain like Frollo from Hunchback of Notre Dame can be just as interesting to watch for different reasons.
Sauron, Ozai, and Palpatine come to mind. And what do they all have in common? Another villain that makes up for their one note evil. With Sauron, you have Saruman and his logical reason (inevitable loss) to side with Sauron. With Ozai, you have his son who is infinitely more complex and even turns good. Then you have Palpatine, who has Vader, who, like Zuko, ends up being nuanced and turns good. A lot of the time it's good to have a lesser villain that is nuanced compared to the main villain. You don't absolutely need it, but it works wonders. A smaller example I've always loved is Cutter from Antz. The guy was never evil, he just followed orders until those orders were too much for him to excuse. But with Disney, they're just trying to retcon every female villain into a tragic anti-hero. It's atrocious and laughable.
A backstory its no a excuse. You can understand where they come from but not empathize with then. Like, imagine a movie where Hitler is the hero but the art academy is the villain because din't let him enter and you sympathize with him.
Corporate Commander: "I couldn't buy a lollipop because I was poor. So I sold my mother's ash tray for 3$, and then her ashes, her house and even her soul. I was then able to buy every lollipop I wanted, and then I sold them all to the other kids at increased prices. After that I couldn't get enough of making money. I was buying everything I wanted and eventually realized all I ever wanted was money. So that is why I use scummy practices and exploit vulnerable people. Am I really the bad guy?" AJ: ".......Yes. You're the bad guy. You're doing horrible shit. It doesn't matter what your backstory is. If you're doing something bad, you're the bad guy." Corporate Commander: "Shit. My friend Mickey lied when he said I would get people to give me a pass because I have a tragic backstory. Maybe even get some bitches because they like the bad boy." AJ: "......No. Th-that's not how the world works. And your story wasn't tragic." Corporate Commander: "Even if I were to say that gamers killed my family?" AJ: "No." Corporate Commander: "Ah, well. At least I tried."
next up: Ursula from Ariel: she used to be a singing teacher in atlantis until baby ariel caused an accident in her singing school that got her fired but the royal family just covered it up.
same thing with maleficent: Malicious. some villans are good even though they aren't fully fleshed out. they do their part and do it well to help the story. the joker is sort of like that. he's just that crazy guy for most of his existence and everyone loved him. it wasn't until really the newest Joker movie that we got a backstory on him.
@@Meleena2218 umm the joker movie took some inspiration from the killing joke so it's not the first time we got a backstory for him. hell, even in the tim burton batman movies we get to see joker before he becomes joker(granted he was still a criminal, but it still technically counts as a backstory )
Probably same people that turned comics into woke. Kids became low IQ, raised by bad parents. Very spoiled. Closer and closer is turning everything into Idiocracy.
It is Disneys way now, do everything to try and demonify the heroes from their old movies even when it makes not sense. I hate when they do this, just to excuse the actions and try to redeem a damn puppy killer! Seriously, Disney who ever made this movie is messed up in the head
I haven't seen the movie but that some bs Dalmatian why would anyone not sent the classic bulldog that been trained to attack people also why dog instead of also why would cause he person to hate a type of dog to kill them maybe be scare of them especially for a person who like dog why wouldn't she forgive the dalmatian and you have to be a phycopath to want kill a cat or dog even Hitler would have problem with the killing of puppies
It pathetic sure some people are mess up because of thing that made them that way but Cruella is just evil it make no sense even Hitler would have a problem with the skining of puppies
Probably so we can sympathys with Chyna skinning puppies. And start to think it's normal. It definitely! Ain't!... Disney loves Chyna money that I would believe they'd try to inject this sorta stuff into this movie.
Agreed. Well written, well understood, and sympathetic to the point that even Batman understands why he does what he does. As far as villains go; TAS Mr. Freeze is my favorite villain.
Arkham City Frieze was also super well done. Basically, Frieze is awesome unless he sounds like the Terminator just discovered ice and thinks the idea of it is hilarious
Eric Andre: "Did Cruella deVill have girl power?" Disney: "Absolutely!" Eric Andre: "Did she properly utilize that girl power when she kidnapped dozens of puppies for the sole intent of skinning them and making a coat out of their fur?"
"Why does Cruella hate the Dalmatians?" *Disney:* "They killed her family." "Hahahahahahaha, good one! That's a good joke! But, no, seriously, why does Cruella hate the Dalmatians?"
@@cliffchai3742 , And how are we going to justify Cruella’s hate towards the dalmatians : actually that is going to be super easy barely an inconvenience
Czah5. Seriously!? This is come from a PAID hollywood screenwriter to come up with this crap reason for Cruella to "hate" dalmatians to murder her family? Dalmatians are NOT that cold murderous to do this s*** to any people.
They only seem to want to make sympathetic villainesses. The very idea of a female villain without a sob story seems to terrify Disney more often than not.
They did change Jafar to show he used to be a street rat like Alladin. But he's still an abusive, and manipulative, and misogynistic asshole in the remake regardless.
@@imnothere6696 that movie was insult to one of the greatest Disney Villains of all time. Making Maleficent a sympathetic antihero was like making the Devil an antihero.
So when do the male disney villains get redemption or sympathy stories? I want to see a movie where Jafar gets raeped by the blue man group and a monkey, so that's why he hates Aladin. Cause those are his boys.
@@MercenaryJames Exactly that, Jafar and Gaston (lamiest antagonist of all) are bad just for the sake of being bad. Jafar for power and Gaston for Belle's p*ssy, no redemption for them.
Can't wait for the Ursulla back story movie where Ariel is the villain. The Jafar movie where he's gay and he and the now Sultan had a relationship in their early teens. Hey a Duck Tales movie where Glomgold wealth was stolen by the McDuck family in the past. Don't take these movies seriously.
Oh, if they ever make a live action Little Mermaid, the real villain will absolutely turn out to be King Triton. In the original, Ariel realizes that her father's rules were born out of love, and that she should've listened to him more. That's not a message Disney would ever endorse nowadays. They'd go the route of Triton being the cruel tyrant oppressing the poor women, and that Ursulla was one of his victims.
Next up! Origins of the Hunter that shot Bambi's mom. And how he got traumatised because he lost his family due to a car accident with a deer. He was the soul Survivor,and swore Revenge on Every deer in the western hemisphere.
I feel like they're trying to make the female Disney villains into "edgy" Disney princesses and have them supplement the existing "traditional" Disney princesses. It's basically what they did with Maleficent in her movies and they're trying to do it with Cruella now. And in this modern age and culture thanks to a certain need for people on social media to voice their displeasure at representations, you just cannot have these Villain Protagonists anymore nor can you portray them as incompetent. So, what you get is just a bunch of Anti-Heroes, much like you did with Maleficent. Cruella is essentially the same thing, but for a different movie.
I mean, I keep pointing back to it but animated Maleficent was a great villain. She was evil and she fucking reveled in it. Cursing a baby just because she didn't get invited to her christening. She needed no ulterior motive or tragic backstory.
@@kielmessersmith1956 TBF, there weren't many villians in OUAT that *didn't* have tragic backstories/end up becoming heroes, and that includes many of the male ones. Rumpelstiltskin, Captain Hook, etc.
@@cdsworkshop2855 Except ironically Cruella. The twist with her was her mom was trying to protect the world from her. Rumple never became hero, he's more a neutral party. Willing to align himself with whoever so long as it advances his goals. He only really sides with the heroes when the villains betray him or they start messing with Belle.
@Broody Magpie Studios I don’t know what the fuck these idiots were on about. True she isn’t the antagonist of the movie. But at the end of the movie it seemed pretty fucking clear to me she was definitely a villain.
It's like making a sequel to The Last of Us where a character brutally kills Joel and the game demands the player to sympathize that character.... oh, wait.
i'm one person...i could literally get a movie theater recliner, ticket, large coke coke, large candy and large butter popcorn for $30. I'm not spending that to watch it alone from home...that is insane
The question isn’t “Who thought this was a good idea?” Everyone has bad ideas every once in a while. The question is who at Disney with lots of money thought it was a good idea to deprive themselves of their money to get said bad idea brought to life, they’re the real crazy in this situation.
Both of you are confused let me try to help. The point of these movies aren’t because they think we like this stuff. The elite or powers that be want to replace evil with good and vice versa. It’s to infect our kids minds and shape the new generation which has already been working. Tiktok is full of children sexualizing themselves. The movies in our society reflect our society at the time. For instance 90s and 80s movies and shows don’t treat the audience like children. The real overall point believe it or not is to destroy the family unit and replace the man as the head with the woman. Why? Same reason the serpent went to eve not Adam. That’s about the best I can say without going off the rails.
Oh, you think Disney executives use their own personal money to fund Disney films? That's fascinating. Nooooooo. No. They use corporate funds because Disney is a publically traded corporation. They can blow money until their stock takes a dive then they use the money to make something else so everyone is happy and making money. They even take a cut and call it their pay check. They don't use their own money. That's very silly.
Well, its old ip which mean nostalgia, and the market right now is filled with good old days stuff. Executive look at nostalgia IP and will greenlit everything.
So before we start I have one question no one answered me at all this entire time: How and why am I supposed to sympathize with someone who wants to *SKIN PUPPIES FOR A COAT?* I mean for the animated cartoon I can understand liking her because she's a cartoon villain so how and why did they approach this angle with live action???
I took my sister to all these films. She found them enjoyable. She has never seen 101 Dalmatians. Most kids probably honestly have no clue what 101 Dalmatians is or who cruella was before the film. Same with maleficant. My sister saw sleeping beauty but forgot the bad guy was maleficant. They are just films. Entertainment. Take it for what it is. If it's good then it's good. If not then oh well let it tank.
@@aliquidgaming1068 yeah, theres is no problem in change the history to make the villain the misunderstood hero. So its ok to make other people life miserable is you have a excuse/trauma? Wtf, what kind of lesson is that?
@@VdeBeltran if you're taking life lessons from entertainment then there is a bigger problem you need to address. Also most children don't even know the film 101 Dalmatians. Most don't even know who cruella is outside this film. History??? Calm down kid it is a fictional character. It isnt real. If you can't distinguish reality from fiction and have such a hard time morally with the film then you have a bigger issue that needs to be addressed. You're looking to into this film when most children will just know cruella solely from this film alone. Yall are acting like the parents and morons who thought video games and films had a direct link to violence.
Agreed. Villains are meant to show what happens when you have a bad day and you throw away your morals. Villains are meant to be a social warning not be idolized. You can sympathize with a villain but you can’t idolize them.
@@toledochristianmatthew9919 if you thinks that's bad, one of the two hillside stranglers got a woman to attempt murder to make it look like someone else was the culprit while he was in jail on trial.
"There are certain villains who just need to be villains. Somebody that you like to hate, you don't have to give them sympathy. But Joe what's wrong with giving them sympathy?" Now there's a RIGHT way to do this and the WRONG way. The Joker, Killmonger, Thanos, Vulture, those are all villains. They did terrible things. They are terrible people. But the audience could SYMPATHIZE with all of them, because of the life they had, and how they presented their point of view. That is how you go about it the RIGHT way. With GOOD writing. I mean fricken hell people sympathized with TED BUNDY because he looked hot lol. It's all about presentation. You can absolutely love and sympathize with a villain. But saying what they do is okay, is wrong. There was so much discourse over Thanos and "was he right about wiping out half the population" and it was good discourse, but people were starting to excuse his actions a little bit. And sometimes, some of these remakes that take on the villain POV is trying to toe that line and ya gotta be careful with that.
"From the people that brought you Maleficent (twice!) and Cruella comes the feel good movie of the summer. Young Hitler! Watch as a struggling artist transforms into a raving maniac! He stole millions of lives, now he will steal your heart." ~Disney, probably.
@@theunknowncommenter725, Sort of. But I think Fake Disney meant for it to be even younger. A sympathetic side story of the most evil human to ever live. Springtime for Hitler mostly takes place during his rise to power.
@@Kahless_the_Unforgettable Since Springtime for Hitler was a show within a show, the full version (in story) could actually have had flashbacks to him when he was younger.
Well, he does have the tragic back story they seem to be shooting for. The artist whose dream of entering a school for his art denied. He's forced to fight in a war where he bears witness to carnage not seen before. Men slaughtered wholesale by machinegun fire in pointless charges and twisted in painful contortions and choking on their blood by chemical agents. He returns to his land to find it's people utterly demoralized and the nation collapsing under financial strains. So, he decides to find a way to return it to its former glory by any means necessary.
I used to dislike Alex cause of his negatively, but the more I listened to him, the more I liked him. I love that he is the guy that talks about the technical stuff of the movie. He is brutally honest and I love that about him
That’s the point. He’s not negative, he simply just isn’t fanboying or overhyping stuff for no reason. He’s the most honest and fair critic out of the group from the start, while AJ still tends to fanboy here and there.
@@anonnona5790 He is propably speaking in the context of western civilisation, where most people unecessarily choose to harm animals for their own pleasure.
They need to stop trying to sympathize with all villains/criminals. I miss the old 80s movies where bad guys are just bad guys. Arnold didn’t ask bad guys why they were bad, he just killed them lol It gives the message that you can do bad things and it will go unpunished. Go ahead, its cool to be a criminal.
This. Not every single villain deserves or needs a redemption arc. Especially when it doesn’t even make sense or fit with their characters. A lot of shows aimed at kids and teens are doing this now, and most of the time it just feels so underserved. The worst is when said villain/ killer/ world destroyer is redeemed as the love interest. That shit is toxic, stop telling kids that can change bad people by dating them. Wtf??
Yeah and how there was a sick person trying to skin puppies for no reason other than to have coat Also form my point of view she would fit more to be spoiled brat who got everything she wanted, push everyone around, never took responsibility for her action and have no humanity she a pychopath that it the idea that she somehow care about dog contradict that she want to skin dalmatians it dumb okay you may not like this type of dog but why would anyone want to kill them
@marius kristensen yeah, who care is somebody enter your house kidnaps your dog/cat/whatever pet you house and make a coat from then. Why i shoul care? Just buy another one and move on...
Based on your review, I believe the problem isn’t just about villains (from Disney or not) being given origin stories to try to make you sympathize with them. I believe the real problem is those origin stories might try to make the villains’ actions justified.
So? Villains are who they are because they lost who they once were or whole heartedly believe they are right. Origin stories are SUPPOSED to make you feel they are justified (depending on the villain). Thanos is a good example of this, technically Infinity War WAS a origin backstory for him as he explains why he is the way he is. It makes more emotional and sad when you see the villain fight the hero in the end.
The problem is that people have to give villains a convoluted reason for their deeds instead of the simple ones like vanity, greed, envy, wrath, love... Cruella just wanted a new fur coat. Hates animals, but loves their fur
@@VogtTD I agree. Like I sympathized with Arthur Fleck, but I still didn't want him to be become the Joker at end. I understood where he was coming from, without agreeing with him. That's the difference. I don't want feel to feel bad for Cruella and be okay with her skinning puppies. No fucking way haha
Sympathy & empathy are also very different. Backstories are more for empathizing than sympathizing. You can fully understand the perspective of someone & still despise them. Joker was far more about mental health & society than being a villain, though. He really isn’t one. It’s too grounded & complex for that.
In Cruella they used what they did in Maleficent, that is from a bad character they make a good one. It is a strange trend in the world what is bad is good and what is good is evil.
Probably because Hollywood in general relates to the evil characters. It's also why wholesome, intact families are so uncommon in movies, because most people in the film industry come from broken homes and don't know how to write or depict a loving family.
Except Maleficent was barely on screen, was open to all sorts of extra development and didn't try to SKIN PUPPIES. Cruella should have just been straight up evil and they should have embraced it.
@@Mellypepper You know, and putting a curse on an innocent girl just because a witch wasn't invited, you know the reason was bullshit and the curse was supposed to be that when the girl turned 16 she would die so you know, making the parents know that their daughter is going to die at that age and they know it kind of falls under torture to me and the whole kingdom knows that their future queen is going to die so it would cause a lot of chaos in the kingdom not only that but she was terrorizing the kingdom
Not in movies thats for sure. All the potentially creative new ideas are made in shows, but again not from big companies, its the small stuff that delivers good results.
they are not hiring the best for the job, people who are passionated and have imagination instead they are filling diversity quota's which are most likely referrals of crazy woke ppl.
Disney trying to rebrand classic villainesses into anti-heroes and anti-villains not only shows how creatively bankrupt and out of touch they can be but is also incredibly disrespectful to the artists who brought us those iconic characters.
It's totally fine for a villain to just be evil. Not everyone needs redemption. I guess it'd be more.. "realistic" to say everyone is more in a grey area, but we don't always watch movies for realism.
No not everyone is in a grey area. The worst monsters tend to be psychopaths they are wired different from the rest of us. Cruella and Joker are examples of this and these backstories badly damage their characters. Other people start off on a wrong path and take it to the conclusion of being evil.
The problem is of course Disney is just loosing their touch when it comes to original ideas. The whole point of cruela is that you don't sympathise with her but yet they have to earn money somehow ig
A villain origin story should end with the “sympathetic” character clearly the villain or on the path. It shouldn’t be like Cruella where she isn’t the villain, but rather an anti-hero.
Every villain does NOT need a sympathetic backstory. Sometimes I just want a guy who's evil for the sake of being evil. That's where the whole concept of being the "bad guy" came from.
The most interesting character aren’t Villians. They’re characters with similar goals and desires as the hero but choose a drastically different path to get there. The problem with all these Villian movies is that that’s never really the case it’s always just like oh one thing made you mad, then they went bad. These stories we’re getting are just sloppily done
A villain is meant to show what the hero could become if they don’t keep their morals and principles in check. Villains are meant to be the driving force for the hero.
@@PikaLink91 not realistically. Most well written villians don’t see themselves as a Villian per say. There are ofcourse the Villian who like to do bad things for the sake of bad things but most are just doing what they feel they must to achieve a goal they want. If you think about it there’s a likelihood that you’re the Villian in someone else’s story without meaning to or realizing that’s the case.
@@insainraven9875 Oh I'm the villain in many people's story for some godforsaken reason. That said, I was mostly joking based on the second half of your OP, and do agree that good villains don't see themselves as villains, and in many stories that have a well written villain I actually tend to side with them and/or at least agree with some of their points. Like, what often makes a villain, despite their good intensions, and what generally seperates them from the hero, is that they like to ty to more extreme and unethical means to achieve their goals, but in some stories, even if the villain's methods are extreme, I still side with them. Sometimes because the hero has no better alternative of their own, or where I just commend the villain for having the balls to go that far for what they want. Like, you can tell your audience all you want, who they are supposed to or aren't supposed to side with, but ultimately that doesn't mean jack, because what decides the villain from the hero in your audiences eyes, is their actions and their justification for these. I recently watched 6 Underground with Ryan Renolds, and as the "heroes" kill count rose and rose, I seriously started asking myself if THEY weren't really the true badguys. When all is said and done though, you can't deny that there ARE plenty of 1 dimensional villains who turn to villainy just because ONE bad thing happened to them once. Just like there are plenty of flat heroes who are heroic just because "they are the chosen one".
false. There is no such thing as just one way to write a "good" villain. Its this sort of mentality that is resulting in these garbage movies where the villains are being retconned into being "MisSuNDersToOd' and everything being forced in a direction of "it's morally grey". There are different types of villains and different ways to write them, it's a spectrum ranging from the more complex morally grey anti-hero to the theatrical moustache-twirling villain of pure egocentric evil.. none of them are objectively better than the other. apples and oranges The idea people have in their head of there being one standard way to write a villain just hurts the creativity and diversity of fiction and story telling. Because then everyone is just writing the exact same type of fiction or story to appeal to ONE trend and standard. And Cruella is definently a villain on the theatrical and classic side of the spectrum. She is a pure embodiment of narcissistic evil. An eccentric cackling maniacal character, so psychopathic that she is nowhere near being relatable to any average humanwith normal empathic functions. That's also the point. Re-imagining Cruella as being anywhere near morally grey, just ruins it. Rendering her into nothing more than another member in an increasingly bland rogues gallery of retconned villains I mean.. her name is LITERALLY "cruel devil" for gods sake It's like making a lord of the rings movie where Sauron only turned to darkness because he was bullied for his suppressed sexuality, and he is actually just fighting for social justice for the suppressed orcs who live in poverty.
I agree that if you pay 30 bucks to “rent” a movie. On top of a monthly fee for the streaming service. Then you deserve to be mocked, bullied and ridiculed.
Easy property to try something more experimental/edgy with, if it fails (which it will) Disney can take the hit because it’s not a truly popular IP anymore.
@Adolfthejewbaka _ you literally have no idea who I am how would you know I buy Disney movies . You sound stupid th ats like I accept you racist out of absolutelybnowhere when we've never seen each other or talked to each other .
My hypothesis. Disney wants to make every villain sympathetic so that people will look more sympathetically at one of the worst villains in modern world - Disney.
joe gets so passive aggressive and mad at other joe and alex anytime they disagree with his opinion on movies or games LOLW its hilarious to watch him get down low pissed af at his friends
Maleficent, Cruella, What’s next, Ursula is also a misunderstood anti-hero? Why does Disney keep taking their female villains and make them heroes or something
Yeah it is a questionable decision since unlike maleficent in her not disney version her character was just a fairy that predicted bad fates or an old fairy that got mad cause she felt disrespected over the other 6 fairies.
disney just tried copying joker and capitalizing on the "bad guy is actually a good guy" schtick thats horribly overdone at this point. The lady that wants to kill dogs for a jacket is *AKSHULLY* the good guy lol
@@Physicallyretard except joker wasn't about bad guy actually being a good guy, it was about a mentally ill man falling through the cracks in society and eventually completely going insane
@@666FallenShadow why did all the people break him out of the cop car and surround him clapping and cheering? could it be because in their eyes he was the good guy?
Reminds me of the SJW film "Grettle and Hansel" where I heard that they turned the witch into a feminist who's not a "villain" and is instead a victim whose misunderstood and persecuted by men....ugh.
Alex: "Watch Cowboy Bebop first" Me: "No finer advice on what to watch has ever been given" Also me a few days ago to a friend that had just watched CB for the first time: "See, didn't I tell you Cowboy Bebop is amazing??? The music, the characters, the ships, the stories!?!?!?!"
First, I thought this was going to be a show. Second, I always thought this was going to be pretty shit as it’s trying to make a ANIMAL SKINNER sympathetic. She’s the worst villain, she tried to gut puppies. 😭
@@scottytrips4154 You _do_ know that we weren't supposed to sympathize with The Joker, right? That the movie doesn't glorify his actions, it vilifies them.
It's the Thanos effect. They saw how much people liked Infinity War, and they are basically copy-paste the formula with all villains. Some villains should JUST remain villains, Cruela being one of them.
I don't get the reimagining of Cruella looking like a depressed crazy loon magoo Also they're doing the $30 thing again. I'll pass. But that's just me. Don't get tilted now
The writers of Hot Pursuit (the one with Reese Witherspoon), The Devil Wears Prada, and the first 50 Shades movie. It also had the writer of The Favorite but he went full Neil Druckmann on that.
So what you're saying is, that in order to make Cruella relatable, we had to make someone else an asshole, in this case... the dalmatians? ..........tf?!?
Why would they do it with Cruella? She was never sympathetic or even that charismatic. She's not Gaston, she's not Jafar. And even though Gaston may be the most likeable disney villain ever because of how funny he is, you'd have to remove a lot of what he did and basically only keep the "kill beast" mentality for him to be sympathetic. But "kill beast" and "kill 99 puppies" is not the same level.
It's not disney trying to convince that a woman is misunderstood. Cruella its is own thing. I can EASLY separate this movie from 101. They did a really good job with this movie. If you love 101 thats fine! If you love Cruella that fine too! Its not a shitty shot for shot movie like Lion king (2019) and its not a poorly pandering movie like Mulan. Cruella is its own movie. Isn't that what we want? With one or two quick side refs of 101 but that's not the focus of the movie. I say give the movie a chance.
Exactly! But when joker did it everyone was perfectly ok. Joker being it’s own thing was awesome. Crisola being it’s own thing also worked. I really enjoyed this movie, not a masterpiece but a very solid one.
I don't like the message Disney is trying to tell with movies like this. Making every classic Disney villain into a victim to sympathize with. It's a dangerous way of thinking to sell to kids.
Ya hard pass. Didn’t need to see this movie to know it was gonna be a dumpster fire. We don’t need to sympathize with a woman who says, “poison them, drown them, bash them on the head!!” to her henchmen on how to kill puppies... that is an evil person that deserves what comes to them and I don’t want to get to know them.
I don't understand why every major company has to make every character seem unlikable now. Every time these writers are just getting green lit to make symbols of good like Superman into some horrible villain while they turn villain characters to be more sympathetic (like anti-heroes) to such a bullshit degree where it seems extremely forced. Like I don't wanna force myself to like this terrible anti-hero just because they have this slight 'redeeming' quality to them--it doesn't change that they are still really bad for animal cruelty. And there's absolutely no way Superman could be turned into some 'evil' figure as much as they want to forcibly portray him as that. It really makes no sense where they're going with this. They're either creatively bankrupt of new ideas, they're plugging as much 'anti-hero' fare because that's what's trendy now or (it might seem crazy but) maybe they're pushing some agenda to psychologically manipulate their own consumers on how they view the brand behind this film; They want to make you think about the good things they've done, to rub off any kind of criticism of their wrong doings. To sympathize with them because of their charity & community work, even though they've had such a terrible history of discrimination, sexism, plagiarism, and various other controversies--like how they want us to view the character in this film. It is essentially like 'corporate stockholm syndrome' but on the consumer side. (that is just theoretical but it almost seems probable with how some industries (like the video-game industry) use psychological manipulation against the consumer to make them become more loyal to the brand and profit more off of them.) (that's how people turn into white knights for these companies)
Ummmm NO!!!! Every villain doesn't need a sympathetic backstory. I'm taken aback that y'all actually think that.🤣 *Especially talking about Cruella!!!!*
Next movie: Disney's Adulf, were we follow his younger years were he just wanted to be a painter, and his father's disapproval. or Disney's Joseph, were we follow Stalin teach middle school students and becomes a Meteorologist.
Sympathetic Villain stories are getting old I'm getting tired of Hollywood turning beloved villians into Sympathetic anti heros it doesn't always work I just want evil villains sometimes what's wrong with that why can't Villains be Villains again Sympathetic Villains turned into anti heros is becoming overused. Edit: You can make really evil villians interesting deep and complex without making the audience feel bad for them.
So your telling me the same company who supports the Chinese government even thanked them for the free slave labor in Xin Jingping with the Uighur Muslims when filming Mulan, is trying to make us sympathetic to a woman who wears Dalmatian puppy's as fur is just misunderstood and we need to hear their side of it 😮🙄😑.
One of the only Disney Villains that deserves his live-action Film would be Captain Hook. This poor Dude´s hand was cut off by Peter Pan and fed to the Crocodile. And at least we get another Pirate movie.
@@ajpat9620 well it will probably just be another Peter Pan Movie, where Hook is the Villian again. Saw pics of Jude Law as hook... didnt look as good as Jason Isaacs Hook.
I prefer the original theory for her background. A guy theorized that her parents' were satanic cultists, that would skin animals in front of her for a ritual. And she was like "damn, about that fur though." It may not be official, but I don't accept any other storyline. (Kilian Experience)
Mmm... no, not every villain needs a sympathetic backstory. True evil has a place in storytelling. Ramsay Bolton for example, is an effective villain. Completely devoid of a sympathetic backstory, and whatever human qualities he has are outweighed by his sociopathic tendencies. Buffalo Bill is a scary villain too, but we don't need his backstory to be relatable. His backstory is understandable, but indefensible.
@@morninglaughter2469 Well regular Dracula isn't quite at the level that the title Prince of Darkness warranted. Castlevania Dracula on the other hand...
"[X] killed my parents/children, thus I am now evil" is probably one of the most overused motivation-type tropes in story-telling. It's so overused, in fact, that it's now a cliché and everyone mocks the entire idea. FFS, it's a damn meme at this point. It doesn't generate any sympathy anymore, it just causes eyerolling. You don't need a sympathetic villain in order to have a good villain. They can just be asshole monsters. It's not even unrealistic when you look at history or even today.
If there is a Disney vilain who is missunderstood and needs his own movie, then it's Gaston from Beauty and the Beast. Gaston was an overbearing ass, but from his point of view he was making the village safer by slaying the beast that kidnapped a local village girl. If things were a bit different Gaston would have been an anti-hero.
Disney really does keep ruining old movies by trying to make the villains sympathetic. Anybody remember Maleficent? Fantastic villain, until she got her own movie. That being said, i'm a hunter so i have no real issue with killing animals for their hides or heads.
You know, the one excuse I hate hearing the most from Hollywood is that bullshit line, "We've run out of ideas," what do you mean, you've run out of ideas?! There are thousands of stories out there, thousands of authors, etc that one can turn into a film. But do they? No, they just claim they have no ideas. It's lazy to me that Hollywood has seemingly just selected a handful of writers instead of going outside and seeking other talents to help create something new and unique, or at the very least... entertaining.
Disney saw how Joker was such a success so now they think they can do that with every villain whats next? The origin of Jaffar?? Gaston?? give me a fucking break.
Actually I watch Gaston. He fought in the war, glorious singing voice, and has such a fun personality. I don't think he actually has a story to tell, but I would probably watch it.
People can't complain about reinterpretations of Disney villains in a world where the same thing happens to comic book characters. Also, why is Cruella irredeemable for wanting to kill 101 dalmatians but Zod is understandable for wanting to commit genocide?
No. Not every villain NEEDS sympathetic background. Sometimes a villain is a fucking villain. And that can be great!
Unless you’re thrawn.
Exactly this! Someone pointed out that a sympathetic villain, like Zuuko from The Last Airbender, can be compelling; but a pure evil villain like Frollo from Hunchback of Notre Dame can be just as interesting to watch for different reasons.
Sauron, Ozai, and Palpatine come to mind. And what do they all have in common? Another villain that makes up for their one note evil. With Sauron, you have Saruman and his logical reason (inevitable loss) to side with Sauron. With Ozai, you have his son who is infinitely more complex and even turns good. Then you have Palpatine, who has Vader, who, like Zuko, ends up being nuanced and turns good.
A lot of the time it's good to have a lesser villain that is nuanced compared to the main villain. You don't absolutely need it, but it works wonders. A smaller example I've always loved is Cutter from Antz. The guy was never evil, he just followed orders until those orders were too much for him to excuse.
But with Disney, they're just trying to retcon every female villain into a tragic anti-hero. It's atrocious and laughable.
Just like Joker...
yeah sometimes people are just evil, plain and simple
I can agree that every villain can be improved with an interesting backstory, however I don't think that every villain can or should be sympathetic
A backstory its no a excuse. You can understand where they come from but not empathize with then. Like, imagine a movie where Hitler is the hero but the art academy is the villain because din't let him enter and you sympathize with him.
I think some sympathy could be given to a villain for say their upbringing but they shouldn’t be twisted to try and be a hero or a good guy
There should be a story made of terminator going through " because people just see me as a hunk and dont care whats inside me" phase
A good villain does not need a backstory at all. Nothing can justify their actions if they're a good villain, so who cares?
@@f1jones544 A villian without a backstory is stock character. Nothing to it whatsoever.
Joe, please do the Corporate commander sad backstory. Surely he is misunderstood and was only ever loved by people growing up when he had money. n.n
I relate.
"All i wanted...was to make every quick buck in front of me"
Suffering in success
Corporate Commander: "I couldn't buy a lollipop because I was poor. So I sold my mother's ash tray for 3$, and then her ashes, her house and even her soul. I was then able to buy every lollipop I wanted, and then I sold them all to the other kids at increased prices. After that I couldn't get enough of making money. I was buying everything I wanted and eventually realized all I ever wanted was money. So that is why I use scummy practices and exploit vulnerable people. Am I really the bad guy?"
AJ: ".......Yes. You're the bad guy. You're doing horrible shit. It doesn't matter what your backstory is. If you're doing something bad, you're the bad guy."
Corporate Commander: "Shit. My friend Mickey lied when he said I would get people to give me a pass because I have a tragic backstory. Maybe even get some bitches because they like the bad boy."
AJ: "......No. Th-that's not how the world works. And your story wasn't tragic."
Corporate Commander: "Even if I were to say that gamers killed my family?"
AJ: "No."
Corporate Commander: "Ah, well. At least I tried."
Oh! I would love that, I haven't seen Corporate Commander in a while.
next up: Ursula from Ariel: she used to be a singing teacher in atlantis until baby ariel caused an accident in her singing school that got her fired but the royal family just covered it up.
Turns out Ursula was a mistress of Ariel’s father and gets tossed aside. Lover motivated by vengeance.
Stop giving them idea's
Or how about making Gaston a nerd who got his heart broken by a beautiful girl and he then decides to become buff and evil.
Realistically it will probably be her true mother while her dad is an evil misogynist
@@AndreNitroX Filmed in the style of Joker. I'd pay to watch that.
When you have a villain that has CRUEL in her name, why does she need to be sympathetic?
This.
Money
same thing with maleficent: Malicious. some villans are good even though they aren't fully fleshed out. they do their part and do it well to help the story. the joker is sort of like that. he's just that crazy guy for most of his existence and everyone loved him. it wasn't until really the newest Joker movie that we got a backstory on him.
Not just cruel, but also literally "devil"
@@Meleena2218 umm the joker movie took some inspiration from the killing joke so it's not the first time we got a backstory for him. hell, even in the tim burton batman movies we get to see joker before he becomes joker(granted he was still a criminal, but it still technically counts as a backstory )
“The Dalmatians killed Cruella’s family”
Whoever thought that idea was good should be fired.
The same guy who thought Superman should be black, or that Person who thought “yeah Mulan needs witches.”
Probably same people that turned comics into woke.
Kids became low IQ, raised by bad parents.
Very spoiled.
Closer and closer is turning everything into Idiocracy.
It is Disneys way now, do everything to try and demonify the heroes from their old movies even when it makes not sense. I hate when they do this, just to excuse the actions and try to redeem a damn puppy killer! Seriously, Disney who ever made this movie is messed up in the head
I haven't seen the movie but that some bs Dalmatian why would anyone not sent the classic bulldog that been trained to attack people also why dog instead of also why would cause he person to hate a type of dog to kill them maybe be scare of them especially for a person who like dog why wouldn't she forgive the dalmatian and you have to be a phycopath to want kill a cat or dog even Hitler would have problem with the killing of puppies
I agree they are running out of ideas doing the same damn thing they did 20 years ago
Disney trying to convince me that a woman who wants to skin puppies is just misunderstood? Haha yeah right
You’re better off watching a show called “Happy!” It’s on Netflix and it’s really good.
@@masterzombie161 happy feet
It pathetic sure some people are mess up because of thing that made them that way but Cruella is just evil it make no sense even Hitler would have a problem with the skining of puppies
They did the same whit joker.
Probably so we can sympathys with Chyna skinning puppies. And start to think it's normal. It definitely! Ain't!... Disney loves Chyna money that I would believe they'd try to inject this sorta stuff into this movie.
Best sympathetic villain: Mr. Freeze from Batman: TAS.
I was just about to type this. I would have rather watched a Mr. Freeze movie than a Joker one.
Agreed. Well written, well understood, and sympathetic to the point that even Batman understands why he does what he does. As far as villains go; TAS Mr. Freeze is my favorite villain.
I think a movie on Two-Face/Harvey Dent could also be pretty good.
@@bigbadbob7070 We did. Nolan Batman movies.
Arkham City Frieze was also super well done. Basically, Frieze is awesome unless he sounds like the Terminator just discovered ice and thinks the idea of it is hilarious
Eric Andre: "Did Cruella deVill have girl power?"
Disney: "Absolutely!"
Eric Andre: "Did she properly utilize that girl power when she kidnapped dozens of puppies for the sole intent of skinning them and making a coat out of their fur?"
"Why does Cruella hate the Dalmatians?"
*Disney:* "They killed her family."
"Hahahahahahaha, good one! That's a good joke! But, no, seriously, why does Cruella hate the Dalmatians?"
To be fair that’s a good reason? I can’t think of anything else
I can already hear the screenwriter guy and the producer guy having this conversation in their Pitch Meeting.
@@cliffchai3742 , And how are we going to justify Cruella’s hate towards the dalmatians
: actually that is going to be super easy barely an inconvenience
@@daestka5512 Oh really?!
Czah5. Seriously!? This is come from a PAID hollywood screenwriter to come up with this crap reason for Cruella to "hate" dalmatians to murder her family? Dalmatians are NOT that cold murderous to do this s*** to any people.
“Jafar was abused as a kid” 💀💀💀
Can’t wait to see Jafar (2022)
They only seem to want to make sympathetic villainesses. The very idea of a female villain without a sob story seems to terrify Disney more often than not.
And....... wait for it, he is secretly gay.
no wonder he was obsessed with Aladdin
Disney won't make a backstory movie about males
They did change Jafar to show he used to be a street rat like Alladin.
But he's still an abusive, and manipulative, and misogynistic asshole in the remake regardless.
Disney needs to stop turning our favourite villains into anti-heroes.
i stopped after Maleficent.
“Anti heroes”
Turning evil into good and good into evil is what Hollywood does. And it’s one of the agendas that’s being Inserted in all types of media.
@@imnothere6696 that movie was insult to one of the greatest Disney Villains of all time. Making Maleficent a sympathetic antihero was like making the Devil an antihero.
That's not what an anti-hero is. They're making her into a straight heroine.
Disney is a villain
Disney trying to convince you that villains aren’t that bad.
👀 I see what you did here Disney
Nah.
"Every villain deserves a good backstory."
Next on Disney Plus: Hitler the Musical!
They licensed "The Producers" ?
Look up "Spring time for Hit-"
This made me laugh out loud, fuck, I wouldn’t put it past them.
There is already a movie that makes Hitler more humane called "Downfall".
Followed by Osama bin-Ladden: the Musical!
Hitler on Ice!
So when do the male disney villains get redemption or sympathy stories?
I want to see a movie where Jafar gets raeped by the blue man group and a monkey, so that's why he hates Aladin. Cause those are his boys.
How do I un-read a sentence
The blueman group and monkey made me f*cking laugh hard.
@@tavern2468 lol you don't. The image is now a part of you forever.
Male villains don't get sympathetic stories. They just become even more misogynistic and cruel. Because man = bad.
@@MercenaryJames Exactly that, Jafar and Gaston (lamiest antagonist of all) are bad just for the sake of being bad. Jafar for power and Gaston for Belle's p*ssy, no redemption for them.
Can't wait for the Ursulla back story movie where Ariel is the villain. The Jafar movie where he's gay and he and the now Sultan had a relationship in their early teens. Hey a Duck Tales movie where Glomgold wealth was stolen by the McDuck family in the past. Don't take these movies seriously.
Oh, if they ever make a live action Little Mermaid, the real villain will absolutely turn out to be King Triton. In the original, Ariel realizes that her father's rules were born out of love, and that she should've listened to him more. That's not a message Disney would ever endorse nowadays. They'd go the route of Triton being the cruel tyrant oppressing the poor women, and that Ursulla was one of his victims.
Whoa now! Don't give Disney ideas lol
Disney: "write that down, WRITE THAT DOWN!"
The newest DuckTales already touched Glomgold's past. So they can't make anything new from it, unless They want to piss the fans off.
Next up!
Origins of the Hunter that shot Bambi's mom.
And how he got traumatised because he lost his family due to a car accident with a deer.
He was the soul Survivor,and swore Revenge on Every deer in the western hemisphere.
I feel like they're trying to make the female Disney villains into "edgy" Disney princesses and have them supplement the existing "traditional" Disney princesses. It's basically what they did with Maleficent in her movies and they're trying to do it with Cruella now. And in this modern age and culture thanks to a certain need for people on social media to voice their displeasure at representations, you just cannot have these Villain Protagonists anymore nor can you portray them as incompetent. So, what you get is just a bunch of Anti-Heroes, much like you did with Maleficent. Cruella is essentially the same thing, but for a different movie.
I mean, I keep pointing back to it but animated Maleficent was a great villain. She was evil and she fucking reveled in it. Cursing a baby just because she didn't get invited to her christening. She needed no ulterior motive or tragic backstory.
Don't forget about the evil queen, she's a full on goodguy/hero now. If you watch Once upon a time anyway.
@@kielmessersmith1956 TBF, there weren't many villians in OUAT that *didn't* have tragic backstories/end up becoming heroes, and that includes many of the male ones. Rumpelstiltskin, Captain Hook, etc.
Agreed their trying to make bad girls the new Disney Princess. Next up is Ursula
@@cdsworkshop2855 Except ironically Cruella. The twist with her was her mom was trying to protect the world from her. Rumple never became hero, he's more a neutral party. Willing to align himself with whoever so long as it advances his goals. He only really sides with the heroes when the villains betray him or they start messing with Belle.
"let's make a movie, where we relate to a puppy killer" - Said no bloody one with a brain ever....
I’ve said that on the trailer video and people defended it. I’m sorry, you can defend a lot. But not a puppy killer.
@Broody Magpie Studios I don’t know what the fuck these idiots were on about. True she isn’t the antagonist of the movie. But at the end of the movie it seemed pretty fucking clear to me she was definitely a villain.
I mean Disney sucks up to a genocidal police state that eats bats so killing puppies isn’t too out of their window I suppose...
@@KingKhanate1997 Lol
@@KingKhanate1997 They have a holiday with dog meat so....
It's like making a sequel to The Last of Us where a character brutally kills Joel and the game demands the player to sympathize that character.... oh, wait.
Too soon 🙃
Imagine still being a tlou2 hater after a year
@@2-d857
Imagine caring about others opinions about games 😱🤷🏾♂️😂
@@B-Dad Well, at least I don't have that one title living in my head rent free
@@2-d857 but you have those opinions living rent free in your head
"Some people just want to watch the world burn" is the only backstory we need for some villains.
I really freaking hate that you have to pay $30 just to see a new movie on Disney+. Neither HBO Max nor Netflix does that!
disney's obsesion with money
Well. There are ways...
Disney: because fuck you! Give us money!
Just wait till it's free
i'm one person...i could literally get a movie theater recliner, ticket, large coke coke, large candy and large butter popcorn for $30. I'm not spending that to watch it alone from home...that is insane
The question isn’t “Who thought this was a good idea?” Everyone has bad ideas every once in a while.
The question is who at Disney with lots of money thought it was a good idea to deprive themselves of their money to get said bad idea brought to life, they’re the real crazy in this situation.
And why, WHY, does Disney only have bad ideas, and keep greenlighting them?
Both of you are confused let me try to help. The point of these movies aren’t because they think we like this stuff. The elite or powers that be want to replace evil with good and vice versa. It’s to infect our kids minds and shape the new generation which has already been working. Tiktok is full of children sexualizing themselves. The movies in our society reflect our society at the time. For instance 90s and 80s movies and shows don’t treat the audience like children. The real overall point believe it or not is to destroy the family unit and replace the man as the head with the woman. Why? Same reason the serpent went to eve not Adam.
That’s about the best I can say without going off the rails.
Oh, you think Disney executives use their own personal money to fund Disney films? That's fascinating.
Nooooooo. No. They use corporate funds because Disney is a publically traded corporation. They can blow money until their stock takes a dive then they use the money to make something else so everyone is happy and making money. They even take a cut and call it their pay check.
They don't use their own money. That's very silly.
@@viviennewestwoodruinedmylife This sounds like your two steps away from saying feminist ruin everything
Well, its old ip which mean nostalgia, and the market right now is filled with good old days stuff.
Executive look at nostalgia IP and will greenlit everything.
So before we start I have one question no one answered me at all this entire time:
How and why am I supposed to sympathize with someone who wants to *SKIN PUPPIES FOR A COAT?* I mean for the animated cartoon I can understand liking her because she's a cartoon villain so how and why did they approach this angle with live action???
I took my sister to all these films. She found them enjoyable. She has never seen 101 Dalmatians. Most kids probably honestly have no clue what 101 Dalmatians is or who cruella was before the film. Same with maleficant. My sister saw sleeping beauty but forgot the bad guy was maleficant.
They are just films. Entertainment. Take it for what it is. If it's good then it's good. If not then oh well let it tank.
@@aliquidgaming1068 101 Dalmatian theme is fired.
Money.
@@aliquidgaming1068 yeah, theres is no problem in change the history to make the villain the misunderstood hero.
So its ok to make other people life miserable is you have a excuse/trauma? Wtf, what kind of lesson is that?
@@VdeBeltran if you're taking life lessons from entertainment then there is a bigger problem you need to address. Also most children don't even know the film 101 Dalmatians. Most don't even know who cruella is outside this film. History??? Calm down kid it is a fictional character. It isnt real.
If you can't distinguish reality from fiction and have such a hard time morally with the film then you have a bigger issue that needs to be addressed. You're looking to into this film when most children will just know cruella solely from this film alone. Yall are acting like the parents and morons who thought video games and films had a direct link to violence.
I really dislike how people nowadays think that if a villain has some sad story then all their terrible actions are justified.
Agreed. Villains are meant to show what happens when you have a bad day and you throw away your morals. Villains are meant to be a social warning not be idolized. You can sympathize with a villain but you can’t idolize them.
A tragic backstory can justify madness, but not being evil. Evil is a choice
{INSERT NARUTO SWINGSET}
@@AndreNitroX Dude you have girls sending love letters to psychopaths on tv. Society is screwed if this keeps going.
@@toledochristianmatthew9919 if you thinks that's bad, one of the two hillside stranglers got a woman to attempt murder to make it look like someone else was the culprit while he was in jail on trial.
"There are certain villains who just need to be villains. Somebody that you like to hate, you don't have to give them sympathy. But Joe what's wrong with giving them sympathy?"
Now there's a RIGHT way to do this and the WRONG way. The Joker, Killmonger, Thanos, Vulture, those are all villains. They did terrible things. They are terrible people. But the audience could SYMPATHIZE with all of them, because of the life they had, and how they presented their point of view. That is how you go about it the RIGHT way. With GOOD writing. I mean fricken hell people sympathized with TED BUNDY because he looked hot lol. It's all about presentation. You can absolutely love and sympathize with a villain. But saying what they do is okay, is wrong. There was so much discourse over Thanos and "was he right about wiping out half the population" and it was good discourse, but people were starting to excuse his actions a little bit. And sometimes, some of these remakes that take on the villain POV is trying to toe that line and ya gotta be careful with that.
Her name is literally "Cruel Devil" "CRUELla DE VIL"
There’s an “i” in there. You know what else has an “I”? “Misunderstood”.
Yeah, first Maleficent (basically female devil), and now this.
Truth
Basically cruel satan
"From the people that brought you Maleficent (twice!) and Cruella comes the feel good movie of the summer. Young Hitler! Watch as a struggling artist transforms into a raving maniac! He stole millions of lives, now he will steal your heart."
~Disney, probably.
So...a full version of Springtime for Hitler?
@@theunknowncommenter725, Sort of. But I think Fake Disney meant for it to be even younger. A sympathetic side story of the most evil human to ever live.
Springtime for Hitler mostly takes place during his rise to power.
@@Kahless_the_Unforgettable Since Springtime for Hitler was a show within a show, the full version (in story) could actually have had flashbacks to him when he was younger.
@@theunknowncommenter725 good point
Well, he does have the tragic back story they seem to be shooting for. The artist whose dream of entering a school for his art denied. He's forced to fight in a war where he bears witness to carnage not seen before. Men slaughtered wholesale by machinegun fire in pointless charges and twisted in painful contortions and choking on their blood by chemical agents. He returns to his land to find it's people utterly demoralized and the nation collapsing under financial strains. So, he decides to find a way to return it to its former glory by any means necessary.
Other Joe's criticisms is spot on, it's basically the Devil Wears Prada but worse.
this is the kind of comment that indicates fast and furious was a masterpiece
I used to dislike Alex cause of his negatively, but the more I listened to him, the more I liked him. I love that he is the guy that talks about the technical stuff of the movie. He is brutally honest and I love that about him
I think people are being too harsh. He actually makes really good points of you just listen to him
That’s the point. He’s not negative, he simply just isn’t fanboying or overhyping stuff for no reason. He’s the most honest and fair critic out of the group from the start, while AJ still tends to fanboy here and there.
It’s hilarious how they tried to make her sympathetic when she literally wanted to skin puppies.
EXACTLY!!!!
This is Way before and tbf I can understand why she's so fucked up her mum was an absolute bitch
A movie that’s trying to get us to like an animal killer for their Fur.
Which is totally different from killing them for their meat. Because they stay alive from that.
@@Isnogood12 Killing animals for sustenance can be fine if it's desperately needed. Killing them to make a fur coat is however always abhorrent.
@@Isnogood12 Their fault for being delicious
@@anonnona5790 Unless you're really cold.
@@anonnona5790 He is propably speaking in the context of western civilisation, where most people unecessarily choose to harm animals for their own pleasure.
They need to stop trying to sympathize with all villains/criminals. I miss the old 80s movies where bad guys are just bad guys. Arnold didn’t ask bad guys why they were bad, he just killed them lol
It gives the message that you can do bad things and it will go unpunished. Go ahead, its cool to be a criminal.
This. Not every single villain deserves or needs a redemption arc. Especially when it doesn’t even make sense or fit with their characters. A lot of shows aimed at kids and teens are doing this now, and most of the time it just feels so underserved. The worst is when said villain/ killer/ world destroyer is redeemed as the love interest. That shit is toxic, stop telling kids that can change bad people by dating them. Wtf??
You need to get on with the modern times my friend
Now everyone in American society is entitled to justify their victimhood
If y’all want a sympathetic villain, check out thrawn from Star Wars.
Check out thrawn from Star Wars instead
@@galacticcactus5530 thank you?!
Who remembers 101 Dalmatian movie back in the day?
Yeah and how there was a sick person trying to skin puppies for no reason other than to have coat
Also form my point of view she would fit more to be spoiled brat who got everything she wanted, push everyone around, never took responsibility for her action and have no humanity she a pychopath that it the idea that she somehow care about dog contradict that she want to skin dalmatians it dumb okay you may not like this type of dog but why would anyone want to kill them
That film was my childhood, adored the first one.
The animated one or the live action one?
(I enjoyed both)
Animated one was best, live action was amazing, and 102 dalmatians was also amazing xD
@marius kristensen yeah, who care is somebody enter your house kidnaps your dog/cat/whatever pet you house and make a coat from then. Why i shoul care? Just buy another one and move on...
Based on your review, I believe the problem isn’t just about villains (from Disney or not) being given origin stories to try to make you sympathize with them. I believe the real problem is those origin stories might try to make the villains’ actions justified.
So? Villains are who they are because they lost who they once were or whole heartedly believe they are right. Origin stories are SUPPOSED to make you feel they are justified (depending on the villain). Thanos is a good example of this, technically Infinity War WAS a origin backstory for him as he explains why he is the way he is.
It makes more emotional and sad when you see the villain fight the hero in the end.
@@Ravenbones There is a big difference between having sympathy for a villains past vs justifying their evil behavior.
The problem is that people have to give villains a convoluted reason for their deeds instead of the simple ones like vanity, greed, envy, wrath, love...
Cruella just wanted a new fur coat. Hates animals, but loves their fur
@@VogtTD I agree. Like I sympathized with Arthur Fleck, but I still didn't want him to be become the Joker at end. I understood where he was coming from, without agreeing with him. That's the difference. I don't want feel to feel bad for Cruella and be okay with her skinning puppies. No fucking way haha
Sympathy & empathy are also very different. Backstories are more for empathizing than sympathizing. You can fully understand the perspective of someone & still despise them.
Joker was far more about mental health & society than being a villain, though. He really isn’t one. It’s too grounded & complex for that.
Not every evil person have a "tragic" background, some people are asshole just because they can and they like it.
In Cruella they used what they did in Maleficent, that is from a bad character they make a good one. It is a strange trend in the world what is bad is good and what is good is evil.
Almost like it’s all been planned out from the very beginning 🧐🤔
Probably because Hollywood in general relates to the evil characters. It's also why wholesome, intact families are so uncommon in movies, because most people in the film industry come from broken homes and don't know how to write or depict a loving family.
Except Maleficent was barely on screen, was open to all sorts of extra development and didn't try to SKIN PUPPIES. Cruella should have just been straight up evil and they should have embraced it.
@@Mellypepper You know, and putting a curse on an innocent girl just because a witch wasn't invited, you know the reason was bullshit and the curse was supposed to be that when the girl turned 16 she would die so you know, making the parents know that their daughter is going to die at that age and they know it kind of falls under torture to me and the whole kingdom knows that their future queen is going to die so it would cause a lot of chaos in the kingdom not only that but she was terrorizing the kingdom
I think the only form of media to take that concept and do it right is Spawn with Heaven and Hell
I don’t understand WHY nothing new or creative is being made these days.
Not in movies thats for sure.
All the potentially creative new ideas are made in shows, but again not from big companies, its the small stuff that delivers good results.
It's risky to come up with something new and all large movie studios care about is profit. They know they can make money off of established content.
Check out Edgar Wright’s new film, Last Night in Soho.
they are not hiring the best for the job, people who are passionated and have imagination instead they are filling diversity quota's which are most likely referrals of crazy woke ppl.
Money
Disney trying to rebrand classic villainesses into anti-heroes and anti-villains not only shows how creatively bankrupt and out of touch they can be but is also incredibly disrespectful to the artists who brought us those iconic characters.
Like Walt Disney, who wasn't in the habit of fetishizing his villains.
Imagine they touch Blackwolf from wizards and make him an anti hero. Would be hilarious movie to watch.
I wanna see a redemption story for the evil orb from the Fifth Element
It's totally fine for a villain to just be evil. Not everyone needs redemption. I guess it'd be more.. "realistic" to say everyone is more in a grey area, but we don't always watch movies for realism.
No not everyone is in a grey area. The worst monsters tend to be psychopaths they are wired different from the rest of us. Cruella and Joker are examples of this and these backstories badly damage their characters. Other people start off on a wrong path and take it to the conclusion of being evil.
Damn shame but expected.
Disney can't have there big money characters be villains.
Maleficent............
And yet the reason they make profits for Disney is BECAUSE they’re villains
Thanos lol
@@Levixne This is avengers super hero movies not thanos movie
So cruella isn't cruella is just a fashion lady .
The problem is of course Disney is just loosing their touch when it comes to original ideas. The whole point of cruela is that you don't sympathise with her but yet they have to earn money somehow ig
EXACTLY
A villain origin story should end with the “sympathetic” character clearly the villain or on the path. It shouldn’t be like Cruella where she isn’t the villain, but rather an anti-hero.
Every villain does NOT need a sympathetic backstory. Sometimes I just want a guy who's evil for the sake of being evil. That's where the whole concept of being the "bad guy" came from.
The most interesting character aren’t Villians. They’re characters with similar goals and desires as the hero but choose a drastically different path to get there.
The problem with all these Villian movies is that that’s never really the case it’s always just like oh one thing made you mad, then they went bad. These stories we’re getting are just sloppily done
A villain is meant to show what the hero could become if they don’t keep their morals and principles in check. Villains are meant to be the driving force for the hero.
Well isn't that the case with most villains in the history of ever? One thing ticked you off, now you are mad and want the whole world to suffer.
@@PikaLink91 not realistically. Most well written villians don’t see themselves as a Villian per say. There are ofcourse the Villian who like to do bad things for the sake of bad things but most are just doing what they feel they must to achieve a goal they want. If you think about it there’s a likelihood that you’re the Villian in someone else’s story without meaning to or realizing that’s the case.
@@insainraven9875 Oh I'm the villain in many people's story for some godforsaken reason. That said, I was mostly joking based on the second half of your OP, and do agree that good villains don't see themselves as villains, and in many stories that have a well written villain I actually tend to side with them and/or at least agree with some of their points.
Like, what often makes a villain, despite their good intensions, and what generally seperates them from the hero, is that they like to ty to more extreme and unethical means to achieve their goals, but in some stories, even if the villain's methods are extreme, I still side with them. Sometimes because the hero has no better alternative of their own, or where I just commend the villain for having the balls to go that far for what they want.
Like, you can tell your audience all you want, who they are supposed to or aren't supposed to side with, but ultimately that doesn't mean jack, because what decides the villain from the hero in your audiences eyes, is their actions and their justification for these. I recently watched 6 Underground with Ryan Renolds, and as the "heroes" kill count rose and rose, I seriously started asking myself if THEY weren't really the true badguys.
When all is said and done though, you can't deny that there ARE plenty of 1 dimensional villains who turn to villainy just because ONE bad thing happened to them once. Just like there are plenty of flat heroes who are heroic just because "they are the chosen one".
false. There is no such thing as just one way to write a "good" villain. Its this sort of mentality that is resulting in these garbage movies where the villains are being retconned into being "MisSuNDersToOd' and everything being forced in a direction of "it's morally grey".
There are different types of villains and different ways to write them, it's a spectrum ranging from the more complex morally grey anti-hero to the theatrical moustache-twirling villain of pure egocentric evil.. none of them are objectively better than the other. apples and oranges
The idea people have in their head of there being one standard way to write a villain just hurts the creativity and diversity of fiction and story telling. Because then everyone is just writing the exact same type of fiction or story to appeal to ONE trend and standard.
And Cruella is definently a villain on the theatrical and classic side of the spectrum. She is a pure embodiment of narcissistic evil. An eccentric cackling maniacal character, so psychopathic that she is nowhere near being relatable to any average humanwith normal empathic functions. That's also the point.
Re-imagining Cruella as being anywhere near morally grey, just ruins it. Rendering her into nothing more than another member in an increasingly bland rogues gallery of retconned villains
I mean.. her name is LITERALLY "cruel devil" for gods sake
It's like making a lord of the rings movie where Sauron only turned to darkness because he was bullied for his suppressed sexuality, and he is actually just fighting for social justice for the suppressed orcs who live in poverty.
Well with this film also releasing on Disney + Premiere in addition to a theatrical release. I guess that is the pirates life for me.
I agree that if you pay 30 bucks to “rent” a movie. On top of a monthly fee for the streaming service. Then you deserve to be mocked, bullied and ridiculed.
Don't even bother. Just don't watch it at all.
I’m confused. What was the point of this movie? 101 Dalmatians hasn’t been relevant in decades.
💲💲💲
Easy property to try something more experimental/edgy with, if it fails (which it will) Disney can take the hit because it’s not a truly popular IP anymore.
@Adolfthejewbaka _ he just said what was the point of the movie he said nothing about supporting Disney .
@Adolfthejewbaka _ you literally have no idea who I am how would you know I buy Disney movies . You sound stupid th ats like I accept you racist out of absolutelybnowhere when we've never seen each other or talked to each other .
@Adolfthejewbaka _ You’re not listening are you? You’re just trying to start a fight regardless even though they agree with you
"Joella."
I'm fucking dead.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
My hypothesis. Disney wants to make every villain sympathetic so that people will look more sympathetically at one of the worst villains in modern world - Disney.
joe gets so passive aggressive and mad at other joe and alex anytime they disagree with his opinion on movies or games LOLW its hilarious to watch him get down low pissed af at his friends
Maleficent, Cruella,
What’s next, Ursula is also a misunderstood anti-hero?
Why does Disney keep taking their female villains and make them heroes or something
women cant be evil you silly. Well actually they can be more than us goodboy guys. Behind every man theres a scheming woman.
Jafar, Scar, Ursula, Evil Step-Mother (Cinderella) Hades... fuck it give them all sympathetic backstories I'm down
Aye if Thanos can have one anyone can have one. Dude snapped his fingers and murdered an unimaginable number of living beings.
Always wanted Ursula to have one.
@@WartyWarthogHogger just stop already. Yaaaaaaawn.
Honestly, I forgot about this movie. I never really saw a reason for Cruella to have her own movie. Really, I ask you all, who really wanted this?
Me, I just wanted it to be rated R, and have less soundtrack. Really ruins the mood.
I would, but not from Disney. Disney does it wrong. It should be a horror film about a horrible person that you despise.
@@cornbredx All I got from the trailer was that it was trying to mix elements of Maleficent with some Joker added in.
Yeah it is a questionable decision since unlike maleficent in her not disney version her character was just a fairy that predicted bad fates or an old fairy that got mad cause she felt disrespected over the other 6 fairies.
I saw the critical drinkers video on this film and thought "this is gonna suck."
disney just tried copying joker and capitalizing on the "bad guy is actually a good guy" schtick thats horribly overdone at this point. The lady that wants to kill dogs for a jacket is *AKSHULLY* the good guy lol
Disney looked at the character, asked if she needed a revisited backstory, and said "Nah, it'll be fine"
Critical drinkers is often on point.
@@Physicallyretard except joker wasn't about bad guy actually being a good guy, it was about a mentally ill man falling through the cracks in society and eventually completely going insane
@@666FallenShadow why did all the people break him out of the cop car and surround him clapping and cheering? could it be because in their eyes he was the good guy?
Reminds me of the SJW film "Grettle and Hansel" where I heard that they turned the witch into a feminist who's not a "villain" and is instead a victim whose misunderstood and persecuted by men....ugh.
this happened???
Lucky me I didn't finish it then because that sounds like a complete dumpster fire. 😂
Alex: "Watch Cowboy Bebop first"
Me: "No finer advice on what to watch has ever been given"
Also me a few days ago to a friend that had just watched CB for the first time: "See, didn't I tell you Cowboy Bebop is amazing??? The music, the characters, the ships, the stories!?!?!?!"
First, I thought this was going to be a show. Second, I always thought this was going to be pretty shit as it’s trying to make a ANIMAL SKINNER sympathetic. She’s the worst villain, she tried to gut puppies. 😭
Disney CLEARLY didn’t understand why Joker worked.
Joker was shit. In my book it's the same as the show shameless stop glorifying mentally ill assholes
@@scottytrips4154 No and no.
That applies to OJ as well as Disney. Lol. And no, it’s not “the best movie ever”, but it’s still a great one.
By remaking Taxi Driver with a DC spin on it? That's literally it...
@@scottytrips4154 You _do_ know that we weren't supposed to sympathize with The Joker, right? That the movie doesn't glorify his actions, it vilifies them.
*sees Joe's getup* I'm already dead 😂😂😂
Imagine hearing Joe say You Done F it Up in a lady like voice.
70 likes on 1hour pls tech me how to get likes😢
I wish you were
Cringe incarnate
Nani (explodes) lol
It's the Thanos effect. They saw how much people liked Infinity War, and they are basically copy-paste the formula with all villains. Some villains should JUST remain villains, Cruela being one of them.
At least Thanos had a noble goal, just had a horrific way of trying to solve it. all Cruella wants to do is skin puppies for a coat
They had done this with Magnificent long before Thanos
@@addex1236 and they did it better
Joker is still Joker at the end of Joker.
Cruella is not Cruella at the end of Cruella.
I don't get the reimagining of Cruella looking like a depressed crazy loon magoo
Also they're doing the $30 thing again. I'll pass. But that's just me. Don't get tilted now
The writers of Hot Pursuit (the one with Reese Witherspoon), The Devil Wears Prada, and the first 50 Shades movie. It also had the writer of The Favorite but he went full Neil Druckmann on that.
Can't wait for the Adolf movie. Painting him as a good guy.
In his twisted mind, he was.
Way more likely that they paint Stalin or Mao as misunderstood and Twitter blue checkmarks will applaud it.
@@luisochoa576 you're right.
@The Planeshaker LOL no he's not
Dude! It’s Creulla relax
So what you're saying is, that in order to make Cruella relatable, we had to make someone else an asshole, in this case... the dalmatians?
..........tf?!?
I liked this movie a lot, finally one of their live action movies in recent I can get down with.
Some People Hate this Movie, Screw them. This Movie was Art.
@@slytheringuy0529 Yeah I can't imagine hating it tbh, that's crazy..
@@slytheringuy0529
Same i loved it so much i bought it on bluray
Why would they do it with Cruella? She was never sympathetic or even that charismatic. She's not Gaston, she's not Jafar. And even though Gaston may be the most likeable disney villain ever because of how funny he is, you'd have to remove a lot of what he did and basically only keep the "kill beast" mentality for him to be sympathetic. But "kill beast" and "kill 99 puppies" is not the same level.
Disney really need to stop with these remakes and try something new
Soul? Raya? Luca?
@@achaudhari101 Luca and soul are Pixar
@@Katetengen Still part of Disney but okay.
It's not disney trying to convince that a woman is misunderstood. Cruella its is own thing. I can EASLY separate this movie from 101. They did a really good job with this movie. If you love 101 thats fine! If you love Cruella that fine too! Its not a shitty shot for shot movie like Lion king (2019) and its not a poorly pandering movie like Mulan.
Cruella is its own movie. Isn't that what we want? With one or two quick side refs of 101 but that's not the focus of the movie. I say give the movie a chance.
Exactly!
But when joker did it everyone was perfectly ok. Joker being it’s own thing was awesome. Crisola being it’s own thing also worked. I really enjoyed this movie, not a masterpiece but a very solid one.
Joe is so passive aggressive about his opinions it's scary sometimes lol
I don't like the message Disney is trying to tell with movies like this. Making every classic Disney villain into a victim to sympathize with. It's a dangerous way of thinking to sell to kids.
Giving a woman who drowns kittens & skins puppies a sympathetic backstory is like PETA making a documentary on their founder.
Joe looks like a kiss member
I was wondering how Disney was going to explain someone wanting to turn puppies into a coat other than pure greed but wow.
Now u gotta stop killing them for their meat
It's better than the Mulan remake but that's all I can say good about it.
Ya hard pass. Didn’t need to see this movie to know it was gonna be a dumpster fire. We don’t need to sympathize with a woman who says, “poison them, drown them, bash them on the head!!” to her henchmen on how to kill puppies... that is an evil person that deserves what comes to them and I don’t want to get to know them.
I don't understand why every major company has to make every character seem unlikable now. Every time these writers are just getting green lit to make symbols of good like Superman into some horrible villain while they turn villain characters to be more sympathetic (like anti-heroes) to such a bullshit degree where it seems extremely forced. Like I don't wanna force myself to like this terrible anti-hero just because they have this slight 'redeeming' quality to them--it doesn't change that they are still really bad for animal cruelty. And there's absolutely no way Superman could be turned into some 'evil' figure as much as they want to forcibly portray him as that. It really makes no sense where they're going with this. They're either creatively bankrupt of new ideas, they're plugging as much 'anti-hero' fare because that's what's trendy now or (it might seem crazy but) maybe they're pushing some agenda to psychologically manipulate their own consumers on how they view the brand behind this film; They want to make you think about the good things they've done, to rub off any kind of criticism of their wrong doings. To sympathize with them because of their charity & community work, even though they've had such a terrible history of discrimination, sexism, plagiarism, and various other controversies--like how they want us to view the character in this film. It is essentially like 'corporate stockholm syndrome' but on the consumer side. (that is just theoretical but it almost seems probable with how some industries (like the video-game industry) use psychological manipulation against the consumer to make them become more loyal to the brand and profit more off of them.) (that's how people turn into white knights for these companies)
Ummmm NO!!!! Every villain doesn't need a sympathetic backstory. I'm taken aback that y'all actually think that.🤣
*Especially talking about Cruella!!!!*
Next movie:
Disney's Adulf, were we follow his younger years were he just wanted to be a painter, and his father's disapproval.
or
Disney's Joseph, were we follow Stalin teach middle school students and becomes a Meteorologist.
Exactly.
@@mikeycrackson Mao.
oh yikes....
I already knew this movie was going to be a stinker.
When you have watched a million movies like me, you can just tell which ones are going to be bad or good just based off the trailer.
I like emma stone but I totally agree.
It was honestly good I’m my opinion, one of the few good live action Disney films based on past animation ones
Sympathetic Villain stories are getting old I'm getting tired of Hollywood turning beloved villians into Sympathetic anti heros it doesn't always work I just want evil villains sometimes what's wrong with that why can't Villains be Villains again Sympathetic Villains turned into anti heros is becoming overused.
Edit: You can make really evil villians interesting deep and complex without making the audience feel bad for them.
So your telling me the same company who supports the Chinese government even thanked them for the free slave labor in Xin Jingping with the Uighur Muslims when filming Mulan, is trying to make us sympathetic to a woman who wears Dalmatian puppy's as fur is just misunderstood and we need to hear their side of it 😮🙄😑.
One of the only Disney Villains that deserves his live-action Film would be Captain Hook. This poor Dude´s hand was cut off by Peter Pan and fed to the Crocodile. And at least we get another Pirate movie.
Speaking of that, there's Peter Pan and Wendy being made by Disney with Jude Law as Captain Hook.
@@ajpat9620 well it will probably just be another Peter Pan Movie, where Hook is the Villian again. Saw pics of Jude Law as hook... didnt look as good as Jason Isaacs Hook.
Joe, I just want you to know I was watching something else and switched to this so quick lol. Keep up the great work
Me too. The Europa league championship halftime show will have to wait
It's angry Joe!
Check out “Happy!” It’s on Netflix and it’s underrated
@@masterzombie161 I fucking love that show still sad it got canceled
Same
I prefer the original theory for her background. A guy theorized that her parents' were satanic cultists, that would skin animals in front of her for a ritual. And she was like "damn, about that fur though." It may not be official, but I don't accept any other storyline.
(Kilian Experience)
Sounds like a great psychological horror film to be honest.
I am waiting for the film in which Disney will try to convince me Hitler was just misunderstood.
This is the direction we are going after all.
Mmm... no, not every villain needs a sympathetic backstory. True evil has a place in storytelling. Ramsay Bolton for example, is an effective villain. Completely devoid of a sympathetic backstory, and whatever human qualities he has are outweighed by his sociopathic tendencies.
Buffalo Bill is a scary villain too, but we don't need his backstory to be relatable. His backstory is understandable, but indefensible.
A villain can be sympathetic, but they need to still be the villain.
Dracula has been portrayed sympathetically, but he's still the Prince of Darkness
So, you mean regular Dracula? Or Castlevania Dracula
Either one
@@morninglaughter2469 Well regular Dracula isn't quite at the level that the title Prince of Darkness warranted. Castlevania Dracula on the other hand...
Havent watched a review by you in a hot minute. Good to be back
"[X] killed my parents/children, thus I am now evil" is probably one of the most overused motivation-type tropes in story-telling. It's so overused, in fact, that it's now a cliché and everyone mocks the entire idea. FFS, it's a damn meme at this point. It doesn't generate any sympathy anymore, it just causes eyerolling. You don't need a sympathetic villain in order to have a good villain. They can just be asshole monsters. It's not even unrealistic when you look at history or even today.
If there is a Disney vilain who is missunderstood and needs his own movie, then it's Gaston from Beauty and the Beast. Gaston was an overbearing ass, but from his point of view he was making the village safer by slaying the beast that kidnapped a local village girl. If things were a bit different Gaston would have been an anti-hero.
Disney really does keep ruining old movies by trying to make the villains sympathetic. Anybody remember Maleficent? Fantastic villain, until she got her own movie. That being said, i'm a hunter so i have no real issue with killing animals for their hides or heads.
Within 12 seconds, the earliest Ive see one of Joe's videos
I don't care about this film.
You know, the one excuse I hate hearing the most from Hollywood is that bullshit line, "We've run out of ideas," what do you mean, you've run out of ideas?! There are thousands of stories out there, thousands of authors, etc that one can turn into a film. But do they? No, they just claim they have no ideas. It's lazy to me that Hollywood has seemingly just selected a handful of writers instead of going outside and seeking other talents to help create something new and unique, or at the very least... entertaining.
Disney saw how Joker was such a success so now they think they can do that with every villain
whats next? The origin of Jaffar?? Gaston?? give me a fucking break.
Actually I watch Gaston. He fought in the war, glorious singing voice, and has such a fun personality. I don't think he actually has a story to tell, but I would probably watch it.
People can't complain about reinterpretations of Disney villains in a world where the same thing happens to comic book characters. Also, why is Cruella irredeemable for wanting to kill 101 dalmatians but Zod is understandable for wanting to commit genocide?
You can so clearly see Joe debating the score he'll give it as he's listening to oj and Alex give their scores haha
Cruella
If this movie doesn't scare and confuse you, no evil thing will.
Iggy he's still alive! Get out of there!
When disney gets to Dr. Facilier for their "All villains must have a backstory" quota, they better not fuck that up.
They will. I have no faith in any Disney film anymore.
Not wise to count them out all the time.
Disney isn't making villains sympathetic. They're making whamen villains sympathetic because whamens cant be bad.
This movie is as much about the Cruella we know as American Psycho 2 is about Patrick Bateman.