R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing Trilogy (No Spoilers)
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- Channels Mentioned:
@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
@thefantasynuttwork
@RafBlutaxt
Videos mentioned:
Book 1
Discussion of R. Scott Bakker's The Darkness That Comes Before
• Discussion of R. Scott...
R. Scott Bakker's THE DARKNESS THAT COMES BEFORE (No Spoilers)
• R. Scott Bakker's THE ...
Book 2
R. Scott Bakker's THE WARRIOR PROPHET
• R. Scott Bakker's THE ...
Book 3
A Discussion Of The Thousandfold Thought By R. Scott Bakker - Prince Of Nothing • A Discussion Of The Th...
Philip's thoughts on R. Scott Bakker’s Prince of Nothing Trilogy (no spoilers):
• My Thoughts on R. Scot...
Video I mentioned about reading the micro-expressions of the face:
Does free will violate the laws of physics? | Sean Carroll
• Does free will violate...
Other places to find me:
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![R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing Trilogy Review [No Spoilers]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9Onk3l-Zt1c/mqdefault.jpg)
"They are not our sons, and you are not our brothers" goes extremely hard.
Starting to see this series come up more and more often these days. You guys are only 15 years late, but Im glad it's getting some recognition now at least
This series does not show its age to me. I'm so glad I got to it and glad to add some recognition!
It has been fantastic discussing The Prince of Nothing with you, Jimmy, and Raf! Thank you for enriching my experience of the trilogy, and I hope to chat with you someday on the rest of The Second Apocalypse series. Ha ha! Beautiful outro too! 😂 Cheers, Johanna!
Thank you, Philip! I couldn't resist that outro! I hope you didn't mind me piggybacking on some points you made in your excellent review. Chatting with you always enriches my experience, and I look forward to discussing the rest of The Second Apocalypse when we remember to always keep turning the page! Have a great rest of your day! 😁
@@Johanna_reads Ha ha! Wonderful!
I just picked this series up and on the thousandfold thought.
I find myself just constantly rooting for Cnaiur and his madness 😂
Cnaiur is a fascinating character, and I hope you enjoy where his storyline goes in A Thousandfold Thought!
I'm halfway through the Warrior Prophet and I'm just loving it! Truly unlike any other fantasy I've ever read. Kellhus is one of the most unique and interesting characters I've even read, the whole concept of the Logos and his application of it is nothing short of terrifying. I can't make my mind up about whether he's good or evil (as if such terms could be used in this series haha). The way Bakker writes the character makes him every bit as engrossing and magnetic to the reader as he is to the other characters.
You perfectly described the experience of that book! The contrast between “engrossing” and “magnetic” is perfectly employed with that character. Hope you enjoy the rest of the trilogy!
I am not going to lie, all the praise for Bakker's works has really piqued my interest, even though I am very intimidated by it, haha. The premise of this holy war just sounds SO intriguing, but the disturbing content keeps putting me off. Maybe I should just go in with an open mind whenever I feel the urge to give it a shot, I can always call it quits if it ends up not being the series for me.
Loved hearing your thoughts on this one Johanna, excellent review!! You manage to convey so many of your in-depth thoughts in a spoiler-free way, I really appreciate and admire that! 🥰
Thank you, Esmay! The holy war is certainly a hook! While I greatly appreciated my time reading it, it's hard to recommend it with the focus on such unpleasant parts of humanity and such gross, disturbing content. I guess it satisfied my morbid curiosity, and I’d love to hear your thoughts if you pick it up!
@@Johanna_reads That's exactly the right word for it, I have a morbid curiosity that keeps drawing me to this series. But then my rational brain keeps holding me back hahah. I will definitely let you know if I ever give it a shot!
I am very surprised you made such an excellent review spoiler free! I was wondering how you were going to do that. Well done. I'm very interested to see your thoughts on second half of series. Everything is ramped up.....dare I say a Thousand fold.
What a wonderful compliment! Thank you so much, Jacob! I'm very excited to see what's in store in the second half of the series!
Warms my heart to see this series get more love and attention. I found The Darkness that Comes Before over 15 years ago as a sophomore in high school and it was a bit too much for me, but I picked it back and a few years later and was enthralled.
Love your discussion of the series. Maybe I’ll go back and listen to these on audible.
Thank you so much! The series was so fascinating. I'm starting Aspect Emperor next month. Thanks!
Great review Johanna. I just finished my second reread of all seven books and I have to say that you captured perfectly some essential aspects of Bakker's writing
Mainly how his exploration of themes makes me question myself, my motives, my worldviews, the people I meet, how I have never stopped contemplating his works since I first read him. It is amazing.
Also the thing you said about beauty and the profane and disturbing. Like Mc Carthy indeed, he has this uncanny ability to be able to write something profound or soul stirring and beautiful and an unbelievable skill in writing things disturbing and bleak. Crushing.
This contrast, along with the Mc Carthy influences, will be even more prominent in the Aspect Emperor.
So I am really happy you liked these books. They are criminally underappreciated in my opinion and it makes me really glad to see such light falling on Bakker's works.
I cannot wait for you to pick the Aspect Emperor. Trust me the call will be strong. Its very difficult to stop thinking of this story and characters.
Thank you so much! I'm grateful to hear your feedback as a Second Apocalypse rereader! I have much respect for Bakker's craft and how McCarthy's Blood Meridian influenced this series. I'm looking forward to reading Aspect Emperor! Thanks again!
I love this series so much. The character work is really amazing. Great review.
Thank you so much! I completely agree about the character work. Bakker is such a talented writer!
I'm late to Bakker's books, but I am on my TBR starting this month. Thank you for covering this series without spoilers, it got me excited so tDtCB is now pushed up to this week.🙌
Fantastic! I hope you enjoy getting into the series! Thanks!
I really enjoyed your review of PoN. You did such a great job of pointing out what makes the works unique and interesting, while also pointing out the series shortcomings.
I remember before slowley red reviewed the series, I was beginning to think it's time has past and Bakker will never really get any traction on booktube, but last night I got to watch you have a great discussion with Raf, l Jimmy and Philip and then I wake up today and see more videos on Bakker by you and BookswithZara. It's been great! I now know what hardcore Malazan and Cosmere fans get to feel like everyday they turn on RUclips.
Thanks for sharing you thoughts. Loved this video and all you other uploads.
Thank you so much, Andrew! I'm honored to add a voice to the Bakker fandom on BookTube! I'm happy to see Zara voicing her thoughts as well. I'm glad you enjoyed this video and the discussions. It's been a pleasure to learn more about this world Bakker crafted!
I ordered book one back in Oct. it finally arrived yesterday!
Wow! That's a long delay. Hope you enjoy it!
I read this a while back, in fact I had to wait a couple of years for 'The Great Ordeal' and 'The Unholy Consult' to be released, but I had not been exposed to anything grim-dark before this. It was a wild ride for me and I really appreciate the conversations you, Philip, Jimmy, and Raf as it brings me back. I will need to re-read these books sometime this year since there seems to be a lot that I missed on my initial reading. Thank you for the great content!
What a powerful introduction to the grim-dark genre! I imagine this series will have much to offer on rereads. I'm glad you enjoyed the discussions as well! Thank you, Adam!
First found out about This Series from 'Slowly Red' last year. Was trying to find another Malazan-like experience. But it's the Discussions You all had that made Me finally start 'Prince of Nothing' Trilogy....Halfway through 'Warrior Prophet' now....Loving it so far! Looking forward to the glossary...also hope to see You all read and discuss Aspect-Emperor as well... :)
I'm so glad you're loving it! We are planning on getting to Aspect-Emperor after a break. Thanks!
I finished it last Wednesday, and started The Judging Eye. I was hooked after The Warrior Prophet, and consider that my favorite book as well. The way the battles were told worked for me. I do prefer that 'on the ground' filter, but Bakker pulled this off, probably in that sense of atmosphere you mentioned. And the ending had me wondering where the hell this was going, while the appendices helped contextualize the deeper lore of Earwa; both coming together to make me eager to continue. That said, not better integrating some of the info of the appendices into the text was a fault of the trilogy. It's something Malazan's authors are better skilled at. I also share some of Raf's critiques. Still, overall, I enjoyed the trilogy and joining you all on this read along was a pleasure. Prince of Nothing is a new favorite.
Thank you so much! Glad you also loved The Warrior Prophet, and it's great hearing your thoughts on the battle scenes. I wish the glossary info was more contextualized or emphasized in the books, but I am looking forward to how that develops in Aspect Emperor. Hope you enjoy the rest of The Judging Eye!
This series is definitely on my 2023 TBR. I read book 1 years ago and enjoyed it immensely. As a philosophy guy, I would say Bakker scratches a major itch for me in a way that few other fantasy authors can do. I do remember the exposition could be a little much at times.
I didn't realize you had read The Darkness That Comes Before! I can see Bakker scratching that itch, and I'm excited to hear your thoughts as you continue with the trilogy!
Hello 👋 I’m more intrigued by this series.. thank you for a great video! Happy reading to you 🎧📚
Thank you, Safina! Happy reading! 😊
Amazing books. They raised the bar for the entire genre.
I agree! Incredible series!
Between you, Phillip and Jimmy, I'm seeing more and more that I may have to pick this up. Hopefully I can get to it this year. Great job!
Thank you, Jarrod! I hope you enjoy Bakker's writing, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts!
I'm gonna finally read Darkness That Comes Before in January
Thank you, Jake! I'd love to hear your thoughts! Thanks for watching. 😊
This has moved pretty high on my TBR. Hopefully I can prioritize this trilogy the second half of this year
Fantastic! I hope you enjoy it!
You've sold me Johanna! Not sure when I'll be getting to this but it's officially on my TBR now because of you! Sounds awesome.
I'm excited to hear that! Maybe we can chat about that as well as Malazan! Thanks, Archer!
I wish I could like this more than once, you absolutely nailed it! My thoughts exactly.
Thank you so much! It was such a fascinating reading experience.
Great sales pitch, I’ll be making the trilogy a priority this year!
Thank you so much! Hope you enjoy it!
I can’t get enough of your recommendations. So well done!
Thank you so much!
Wow Johanna! You are getting so good at these review videos! It's amazing how well you organized your thoughts on this and how clearly you relayed them to the viewers. I find it very rare that a non-spoiler review video has so much actual substance to it.
As far as continuing the series, I can just about promise you that when you finish The Judging Eye, you will not be able to believe that you delayed so long, no matter if your break before The Aspect Emperor is a year, or just a few days. No rush though 😂
Thank you so much, Will! I'm impressed with Bakker so far and am looking forward to picking up Aspect Emperor, hopefully later this year! Thanks again!
This has been on my tbr shelf at the end of my bed for a long time now, and I have found myself gazing at it much more lately, which led me here. Was really happy to find you made a video about it as I enjoyed the content I've seen from other creators featuring you in it. Awesome review. Very clear and concise.
Thank you so much! I hope it sets up the right expectations for when you start!
I’m very excited to start this series this year. Thanks for such a great review Johanna. 🙂
Thank you, Chas! I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
So glad you enjoyed the series, do you have any plans to start The Aspect-Emperor Series anytime soon?
Thank you! I'll be starting whenever Philip is ready, but we are taking a break. It might happen in the later part of the year. No definite plans yet!
"The magic is like Heavy Metal" hahahaha. I just finished this trilogy a few days ago and wow! Soooo brilliant. I really resonate with your macro/personal observations surrounding belief, it's why's and it's effects and also perhaps shared your sense of the battle scenes becoming a bit tiring, though at the time I felt that was just me, that I'm not a battle scene reader in general, that I have a hard time fully visualizing what is happening despite Bakker's excellent prose. I definitely thrived on the dialog the most, especially when Kellhus was involved or being talked about. Also the combination of philosophy and poetry in the prose was truly moving despite the bleakness of this world. The genuine way I became emotional from the things that Kellhus would say despite knowing his, uh motivations may be questionable hahaha. I found I liked each book a little more than the last, but that might be mostly because by Thousandfold Thought we are just getting all these reveals about the characters we now know so well. Also I am now on page 135 of Aspect Emperor book 1 - The Judging Eye and it is by far my favorite of the series so far and easily beats all the Prince of Nothing books. A change of tone for sure, but entirely consistent with PoN. I honestly don't know how anyone could take a break between the two series, I started it the same day as finishing Thousandfold Thought. Hope you will dive into Aspect Emperor and share your thoughts with us, Cheersalot.
Wow! I can understand the excitement behind all the reveals in Book 3. Bakker went next level with the meta-physics. So well said about his dialogue and character work with Kellus. I'm very excited to get to Aspect Emperor! Hope you continue to enjoy the series!
Even though Prince of Nothing is an incredible, thought provoking, skillfully written, unbelievably as debut trilogy, the Aspect Emperor is even better. I cant think of anything so bleak but also mind blowing and epic at the same time
@@Red21Viper That is definitely my impression now that I'm half way through The Judging Eye. It's easily my favorite so far. It seems even better written than PoN and somehow considerably more accessible without sacrificing any depth or profundity, in fact increasing those qualities.
It's definitely one of the most mature reads that I've enjoyed theme and idea wise.
I feel the same way! Bakker achieves a level of sophistication I don't often find in modern fantasy.
@@Johanna_reads That being said I don't think I could take re-reading The Aspect Emperor again, that slough nearly broke me, lol.
Fantastic review Johanna! I totally agree about the glossary, a ton of the entries left me so intrigued (even after having read the series before!) and very very excited to continue with Aspect-Emperor. My first read of the series was on Audiobook so I completely missed the glossary the first time around. So glad I picked up the books again and followed along with the four of you, it was a blast! I can't wait to hear your thoughts on the rest of the series whenever you get to it!☺
Thank you, Calvin! I'm glad to hear about your experience! It's a shame the audiobook doesn't include the glossary. I'm looking forward to the rest of the series!
Great review here Johanna!
Thank you so much!
You got me to finally read this book. I had put down the series for almost a year. It wasn't so much the violence itself that bothered me, but rather how super descriptive some of it was. I had never read anything like this so I wasn't ready for it. 🫣
But your discussions made me want to finish the trilogy. So I did. I probably won't go further with it, but I'm glad I finished this much.
I'm glad you were able to finish it! It is pretty bleak and descriptive, but I hope it was rewarding to complete it. Thank you, April!
Fantastic review, Johanna! I wasn’t able to get to The Warrior Prophet last month but am trying to get to it this month and I’m super excited to continue this trilogy! Can’t wait to chat with you as I make my way through the next two books!
Thank you, Alex!! I'm eager to hear your thoughts on the next two books! Hope you'll be able to continue when the time is right!
the prose in this series is on another level - pure magic, makes all the grit, the violence, & the nihilism palatable.
I concur!
Really glad u r enjoying the second apocalypse. I’d reccomend now that you’ve read the first trilogy to go read a little about Bakkers theory of “The Semantic Apocalypse” as he calls it. It’s an idea that’s hard for me to wrap my head around but the whole series in some ways reflects these beliefs that he has about the world and functions as a warning against what he fears for humanity. Really interesting stuff that will make u think and I believe that it will help put things into perspective going into the next 4 books :)
I've not heard of that. I will look that up! I can see how Bakker is offering a warning about what he fears for humanity. I like the way you framed that. Thank you!
I'm on the fence about these books, but I'll get to them at some point I'm sure. I'm a newer subscriber, but your content is awesome!
Thank you so much for subscribing! I hope you enjoy the series if you do pick it up!
Fascinating review, not sure how I feel about jumping in now, which considering my backlog, is a good thing!
Haha! Thank you, and I hope you enjoy whatever you end up reading!
Great review!
Thank you so much!!
Based on the 3 discussions you had on the Prince of Nothing trilogy, I've decided to continue with the series. It'll probably not happen till next year, so I think I'll listen to the audiobooks this time, to get ready. Thanks for the discussions.
Thank you! I think the discussions elevated my experience with this trilogy. There was so much to absorb and process. Hope you enjoy the audio experience!
Heyyyy, got a new shelf! 😀👌🏻 Always nice to have more space for books. ♥️
You had me at “parasitic sex monsters.” 😆 Just kidding, it’s definitely a series that’s been on my TBR for a while. It’ll have to wait until after my Malazan re-read though - not sure I could take both at the same time. 😬
Thanks, Matt! I knew the parasitic sex monsters would be the hook! 😂 I wouldn't read this and Malazan at the same time, but Prince of Nothing is easier to follow with fewer books and a smaller cast. Hope you enjoy the rest of your Malazan reread! 😊
I really fell in love and was fascinated by the first trilogy; the conflicting magic systems, the more alien antagonists, and especially Kellhas and the sect he emerges from. I love the metaphor of "the darkness that came before" as the hidden subconscious source and compulsion beneath thought and action. I admit to less enthusiasm for the Aspect-Emperor follow-up, but look forward to your reactions as I am open to new thoughts about it. I discovered Bakker shortly before reading Malazan Book of the fallen and both author's masterful prose, command of theme, and depth of character really convinced me to dig deeper into fantasy after years of prejudiced belief science fiction was somehow more grounded in the real world, or somehow aesthetically superior.
Beautifully said about the Prince of Nothing! That's neat how this series and Malazan shifted your perspective on what the fantasy genre can offer. I am curious about this new direction Bakket explores in Aspect-Emperor. Thanks!
Great review.
Thank you so much!
Great video!
Thank you!
I agree with you in regard to the ending of the 1000 Fold Thought. The battle scenes at the end just had my brain pulling in 27 different directions and during this battle scene we are flashing back to the highly anticipated meeting/dialog between K & M. There is so much to digest and wrap your mind around in this meeting and I didn't want to keep going back to the battle.
Thank you for sharing! I'm glad not to be alone about that experience. My attention wanted to zoom in on that K & M meeting!
Battle scenes in fantasy books generally go over my head! For the life of me I can't visualize all the things like war logistics, strategy and who is who and on which side! It's so confusing this book included but everything else was great! Now on book three!
It’s very chaotic! There’s a lot of that in book 3 as well, but I hope the rest of the story continues to be worthwhile!
Lovely overview, Johanna! I have an actual question though. I hear people give some fantasy series flak about sexual violence, etc but for some reason this series always seems to get a bye by the same people. I'm speaking in broad generalities, but do you know why that is?
Thank you, Allen! Do you mean most people are tolerant of the sexual violence in this series compared to other fantasy series? I don't feel like I've been part of the conversation on this series enough to have an answer. I'm pretty certain it will cross major boundaries for a huge number of readers, which is completely valid. He doesn't pull back, and I don't highly recommend the series for that reason.
I’d say it’s because it’s not only women who are victims of it, and it’s included for realism and thematic reasons, not for any exploitative reasons - are you planning to read them too soon? :) I’m sure JimmyNutts has mentioned them a lot to you!
@@Johanna_reads thank you both for your responses! And yeah, in a small anecdotal example pool, I've seen a few be bothered in other series but not this one and I was wondering why.
Strange because actually this must be the series attacked more for these issues since it came out. There are even some notorious discussions and internet arguments in the past.
I think the reason Bakker is still admired or bought as you say is because his writing is really different from the vast majority of the genre's authors. There is skill, depth, gravity and intention so even when you read uncomfortable passages he makes you question. Question yourself too. Bakker's words are there to open discussions and contemplation. Its difficult to judge individual scenes without considering all that.
Best fantasy series, bar-none. I really really really hope he manages to get the sequel to the Unholy Sequel published…
Such a brilliant writer! I hope we see much more from him in the future.
Great review as always Johanna! I don't know that this sounds like a series for me but at least now I know hahaha.
Thank you so much for watching, Rodger! Understandable! The series doesn't have the hope, whimsy, and heart that appeal to most of us who love the genre. It's kind of the antithesis of all those things. 😅
@@Johanna_reads yeah and I totally get people wanting to be confronted with a mirror to the atrocities that mankind is capable of, but at this stage of my life I don’t want to be confronted with messed up stuff just to revel in my feels, I need there to be a catharsis to it in the story itself otherwise I’m left unsatisfied and annoyed 🤷🏻♂️
I didn't read any of the books, but I need to do it.
It’s a brilliant dark fantasy trilogy!
Alright! Alright! I just started reading the first book in the series based on your very convincing book review!
Honored that my review swayed you! I hope you enjoy it!
Enjoyed listening to this discussion.
I think one major miss for me (read until half of Book 2 and quit) is that while a world may be misogynistic, it is still possible to portray female characters with a certain level of dignity which didn't happen for me even once. I was baffled by some of the authorial choices with respect to gender dynamics and the portrayal of women for how much I read.
Thank you, Paromita! I appreciate hearing your thoughts! I don't think Bakker portrayed any character with dignity-male or female. While I think that was purposeful, it is uncomfortable to read about female character exploitation in fantasy, given the history of misogyny women have endured in the real world. This understandably crosses a boundary for many readers. Thanks again!
Hello 👋 Hello there
Hello! :)
"we are a race of lovers" so gross ugh
Indeed!
I would not recommend the second trilogy.
Oh no! I’m sorry to hear you didn’t care for it.
@@Johanna_reads As I've told Philip, I figured out where the story was going early on, and from then on it became a self indulgent morass. I loved the first 3 books and that made the decline just that much worse. I felt I was being insulted as a reader.
@@drawyrral Thanks for explaining why! That's an awful feeling! I guess I'll see when I get to it eventually.
@@Johanna_reads I thought that the second trilogy was great. The conclusion of the story is not the important part of the Second Apocalypse series, as it is structured like a big complex logical argument, similarly to Dune in a way. What matters more is the conclusion of those arguments and that is something the 2nd trilogy does well.
It also contains some amazing fantasy elements that were not as present in the first one. Do you want to read a tribute of Moria from a horror and existential point of view? Read the Judging Eye.
It also ups the metaphysics too. I won't go into detail, as i don't want to spoil anything, but i recommend you and others to give the Aspect Emperor trilogy a try. I believe it has a lot to offer.
I really enjoy this trilogy but the followup series disappointed me a lot and I'm a little frustrated that the actual Apocalypse doesn't start until the very end of the series lmao.
It's a bit like Malazan which I enjoyed in the first trilogy, but the next 4 books got reallllly dense and dry.
I remember you mentioning that. That's too bad. I'm hoping that I will enjoy continuing the journey, but it's always good to hear different opinions.
@BooksRebound why are you talking about books she hasn’t read yet??