I saw the headline "Alabama rules that frozen embryos are children" really late last night and figured it was a dream once I woke up because it sounds so bizarre
Nothing bizarre about it. I had ivf and created 8 embryos (in conjunction with my husband and God obviously). I had one implanted at 1:40p on a Tuesday (while my husband was overseas) and now have a 9 month old crawling around due to that. Embryos absolutely constitute a life.
Why wouldn’t they just go get a woman pregnant? Same logic. A human that is not yet out of the womb? Last two pregnancies I’ve had, that wasn’t a thing. Is there something I’m not aware of where we can start claiming benefits on unborn children?
How so? Things like consciousness or brain function apply to animals, and as such, they don’t imply personhood. The thing that separates humans from animals is rational thought, that’s like our smarter thought like abstract thinking. Infants don’t have this and think more like animals. Does this mean it’s okay to do the same to them? What’s the difference? Obviously, both are wrong, and changing stages of development doesn’t change personhood.
Why wouldn't they be? With whom should we compare them? Our dearly beloved USPOS? Or perhaps the VP? Or, maybe even the idiots who voted for them simply because they don't understand how to debate issues and only see a "D" after the name? Oh, but Alabama...
Science says life begins at conception. So there are hundreds of people frozen for YEARS. Even science says this is not right. Would you want to be frozen as an embryo for years?
Politics is largely based on philosophy anyways, since the sciences deal with natural phenomena. And therefore, they deal with things like ontology, and ultimately, theology.
@@TychoKingdomThat would be the child care tax credit...I'm looking at the earned income tax credit....$7,430 if you have three or more qualifying children
Nobody has a right to children, children have rights to parents. Nobody has rights to access unn/tural means to build a child like a build a bear, and then rent someone’s womb out like a hotel.
Every person who has a frozen embryo in Alabama should be required to pick up their children. There must also be periodic welfare checks to ensure that the extra uterine children are well taken care of, and, it would be prudent to require that each parent set up a college fund for each extra uterine child. Insurance plans must, of course, be expanded to include extra uterine children, including annual exams and immunizations. In addition, because extra uterine children face the prospect of intense social isolation, the State should provide early childhood support services and pre-preschool for each affected individual.
@@Leon-Servant-of-Christ The person who posted this is 100% correct. “Always a mooron in every field”. You must be a worshiper of the cult of criminal ex-president loser crybaby liar Cult45.
@@Leon-Servant-of-Christ So all of your incompetent, angry, vindictive gods have decided that you are an ediot also? Little boy, the invisible, imaginary dudes in the sky are not doing you any favors.
You know there are usually multiple failures between each success right. They literally can't work with this law cause every failure could be considered murder.
@@speedy01247 I think what zero is getting at is there is significant time and money that needs to be invested in getting embryos fertilized. In this instance the destruction of the embryos wasn't caused by the many natural things that can happen, but because someone literally dropped them which allowed them to warm up and decay. Monetary damage was done here and the plaintiffs deserve a refund. How in the blue blazes this turned into a wrongful death case is beyond me, but the people of Alabama voted in the clown circus they now have for a state government and they deserve every incredibly predictable unintended consequence this will cause. Namely the people of Alabama will probably no longer have ANY access to IVF in the future and it sounds like people who currently have fertilized embryos need to get those things destroyed before the destruction becomes criminalized, lest they get stuck paying $1,000 per embryo per year to keep each one frozen until the end of time.
One of the news reports I heard said it was a **patient** who took them out of the fridge and dropped them? I want to know why a patient was even allowed in that clinic's lab in the first place! That should 100% be an employees only area.
Under his eye. It’s not about life, it’s about (some) men truing to control women. Don’t give up, push it back on them!! If conception = life, then every miscarriage must be investigated as a murder, and since since men are statistically more likely to be physical abusers, every investigation starts with the guy. Interview his friends, his work, his secrets. You’d get whiplash watching how quickly this BS law gets overturned.
Miscarriage is an accidental natural unaliving, not a murder. What does ab-sers have to do with this? The controlling wom- line is so used up propaganda nobody takes it seriously. 😒
What a stupid statement. A miscarriage is not the mother's fault. You are a sick, twisted individual. "The state's "wrongful death of a minor" law treated those frozen embryos as children or persons. And the Alabama Supreme Court agreed with them in this Friday decision." This is correct and an accurate assessment. They are human beings (embryos) and their destruction should hold the person liable legally.
@@mo.ka.9661No the suggestion is before birth the state is concerned about the well being of the fetus, and will spare no expense...after its born, the child is suddenly your problem.
They never take ALL your rights away at once. They do it little by little, one law at a time. And if we don’t WAKE UP soon, it will be too late to do anything about it.
Life begins at conception, a sperm cell isn’t an organism, it won’t eventually become an adult human, an embryo will. A sperm cell is a part of an organism, like an arm. Whereas an embryo is a whole organism.
And it probably should be, contraception is what created hookup culture, and is the reason birth rates are at irreplaceable levels. It’s one of the main reason the youth are so lonely, besides social media, and bad urban design.
So if an embryo just sits there will it become a person no it won't. Saying an embryo is a person is like saying the food in a woman's stomach is a person because it could keep a baby alive if she was pregnant. This is the silliest crap I've ever heard. You Christians should go back to when you all thought sperm cells were spirits and woman were cursed to suffer through child birth
Politician. A doctor wouldn't know the law, a lawyer would charge you for his advice, but a politician will tell you exactly what you should do and thus assumes the responsibility for you doing what they say.
Embryo storage facilities should apply to the state for child support, if the parents won’t take these “children.” Or, request that they be put in foster care. It’ll either get too expensive or too ridiculous. This is a very complicated and wrong decision.
You're missing the entire point these facilities are creating life playing God only to decide which embryos (babies) live and which die only a select few are even given the chance to know what a warm embrace from their mother is or the comfort of the constant beating of their heart they're made in a lab then discarded like a failed science experiment
@@smokedbeefandcheese4144 yes! Or the dad, since it does take both to make an embryo. Basically, if a kid is left at a Walmart, no one expects that Walmart to care for the child at their expense, right? It’s up to the state if the parents can’t be found to be responsible. So why should fertility clinics be required to do so? So, Alabama better be ready to step forward as foster care for thousands of frozen children!
I think that the few reproductive endocrinologists in Alabama who aren't already listing their houses for sale and calling their professional colleagues out of state to find new jobs, should absolutely petition the state to immediately take over all financial burdens associated with the maintenance of the facilities and equipment where embryos are already frozen. Take that burden off of the prospective parents and other patients of the clinic, and make it a taxpayer funded endeavor. After all, if these embryos are already people, they should qualify for some sort of public assistance, just like a disabled veteran or an elderly widow.
Much of the “science “ people site for conception life have heavy, religious undertones, and bend science, in really deceitful ways. Listen to the medical and scientific professionals who have dedicated their lives to understanding the subject, not politicians, looking to be reelected .
Almost makes you wonder what the Democrats could do if they tried. Like if these guys can just change laws based on religion. You guys could change them based on other stuff I mean if they were politically competent.
This shows a misunderstanding of how it even works, like multiple attempts are made and only a few are successful, are the failures murders and does it count as desecration of a corpse to get rid of them? (Desecration is probably the wrong word, but I can't remember the legal term right now)
I went through IVF with my wife and it was hell on us both. I really struggled with the morality of our unused embryos. I’m not sure what the right answer is, but I am sure the government doesn’t need to be involved in the decision. There are so many things wrong in this world, don’t make life harder for people trying to conceive.
Even in typical pregnancy, the number of those that fail is pretty high, medically speaking. And we've seen that scenario before, where normal people who have miscarriages end up getting caught in draconian laws like this.
It is not a misunderstanding. The flippant disregard of human life, i.e. routinely killing multiple embryos, makes IVF worse, and an argument against it. Some ethical minded people only create what they need, and don't formulate "backup plans"
@@TraditionalHippie how many does a typical family need? My doctor tried impregnating 10 of my wife’s eggs, only 6 made it to Day 10, and of those 6 only 3 were high enough quality to try implanting (of those 3, only 2 passed genetic testing). One of those embryos didn’t take after the doctors tried implanting, no miscarriage, nothing- just a failed attempt. The second embryo took but she miscarried between 4-5 weeks. That was one round of “trying”. We did this 4 different times with varying results; we needed to reset and get more eggs/create more embryos, and had to reset for different reasons- before finally succeeding. None of this was covered by insurance for what it’s worth. We also switched doctors at one point as I lost faith in our first doctor. It’s an incredibly scummy industry full of doctors that manipulate statistics and prey on people when they’re at their most vulnerable.
@@TraditionalHippie -- the problem is you don't know how many you "need" until after the fact. Sometimes it will be multiple cycles where you have only transferred one or two embryos and no pregnancy occurs. The human body does not work in a neat mathematical way that people would like it to work. You need to have some redundancy and some wiggle room in the process because it is art as much as science There are still a lot of things we don't understand about why one cycle will work, and another cycle will fail. And many couples are not fortunate enough to make enough embryos in a given cycle to have any leftover to freeze in the first place. Please leave these conversations to people with actual training in the area. And do not pass judgment on people who have gone through this as patients, either. You don't have the first clue about what is actually involved in any of this. And you also don't have the first clue about how many **naturally occurring** conceptions never make it to the point of even implanting.
They leave out that the clinic negligently left the cryo freezer unlocked, a psych patient got out and went in. Grabbed a dish of embryos and dropped them due to how cold they were.
So what let’s say another similar situation happens. That doesn’t mean all sperm Samples are children. What happens if they declare all the sperm is like that. Then that means if you’re pulling somebody’s genetic material out of the freezer you could be on the hook for so many murders because of how many cells there are
Infants can’t think abstracts either is it okay to say they’re not a child? Animals can think and are conscious, are they persons? You guys aren’t right.
My sistet had IVF after surviving cancer which left her infertal. She would have been devastated if someone dropped her embros. Its a shame that something that started with a family wanting accountability got all turned upside down with politics.
Republicans are just gonna do handmaid‘s tale and you guys are just gonna watch… Because stopping the Republicans would require you to do some thing that liberals just can’t and will not do.
If I were the busybody embryo dropping defendant, I'd be appealing this asap. Even with this corrupt, pro-coup stacked iteration SCOTUS, I'd still hope for some kind of sanity.
Okay, this is getting ridiculous and im conservative 🤦♀️ Can we just stick to the REAL issues going on in America and stop with the tit for tat BS?!?!?! THIS IS NOT A WIN!!!!
An embryo is their own person with their own DNA and everything. Would it be OK to freeze a toddler for years? No, it wouldn't be. So if a person's size shouldn't determine how many rights they have, then embryos should be treated with dignity
Well, if you say personhood comes from something like consciousness or brain function, or sapience, you’d be saying that an animal is a person, but we hunt and eat them. If you say it’s rational thought, basically the ability to think like humans, abstract thought and such which is above normal animal thoughts, then you’d have to say it’s okay to do the same to infants, since they have not begun thinking rationally yet. Hence, the whole argument in my opinion, that their mot persons is stupid, and essentially if you say it’s okay for one (fetuses), it’s also okay for inf-ts. It’s therefore, about b-bies, in general. And anyone who actually thinks it’s okay to do something to an inf-NT has something wrong with them. We all inherently know it’s wrong. And if you deny these inherent instincts your basically denying all morality, since it relies on inherent instincts a lot (like us just knowing m-rder is wrong), and at that point it’s the people who believe in m-r-lity arguing against people who shouldn’t be arguing about it in the first place, since they don’t believe in it, and anything could then go. Which would be terrible for society anyways.
There are millions of children, around the world who do not have parents, and they remain UNWANTED. How can we as a world, encourage IVF to create and keep unborn 'on ice' while actual living children dwell in poverty without parents. I hope this new perspective encourages people to adopt already existing children who deserve good homes.
Pro-lifers have had decades to adopt unwanted children and yet there are still around 500k unwanted children in the foster system in the US alone. It's funny how vocal they were about all those children having the right to be born, but how unwilling they are to actually care about them once they were born.
Some couples are deemed to be too old for adoption by adoption agencies, including agencies from overseas, but might still be able to conceive with IVF. That is at least one example of why they might not adopt instead. Another very important question is why people who are able to conceive easily and for free, feel that only infertile individuals and couples have the responsibility for adopting these unwanted children. If your concern is truly for the well-being of these children, shouldn't YOU be adopting some of them yourself? Shouldn't couples who already have children of their own ALSO adopt some of these children?
IVF is used for people like me whose mothers have a problem with a pregnancy Take your ignorant comments and go someplace else It wasn't for IVF me and my twin sister wouldn't be alive today
@@TakenTook those are some very good points; you know, this is very new territory for us all, it's the first time in history where a pregnancy can be created in a test tube, rather than thru human contact. I think we will all have lots of questions, and come up with lots of complaints and concerns as this develops. Because who's to say someone is 'to old' for parenting, or other things which bar people from adoption. And at what point it does it stop being ok to keep your offspring in a freezer, held hostage in ice? I will tell you though, parenting is very individually based - I raised 3 kids and felt like I went thru the blender, I was so absolutely exhausted, but yet, that woman on TLC raised "19 Kids & Counting" and wasn't exhausted (although other issues became a concern). And if we are going by the Bible, then old age is not on the radar at all because Abraham didn't have children until he and his wife Sarah were extremely old, and a few others in the bible also had similar ages when they became parents. I think faith matters, but we also have to use common sense. I don't understand how fertility clinics work, or what-all they do, but I'm kind of under the impression that one couple has possibly hundreds or thousands of fertilized eggs in that freezer, and that may be overkill (no body needs that many fertilized eggs...😶). And whose choice is it to keep another person from developing... if these eggs are in the freezer shouldn't they at some point be permitted to grow into the person they were meant to be? Are they being held prisoner in a freezer? That's kind of a horror story right there...😱. And there's such a long list of concerns we haven't even thought of yet, and I think when pandora's box cracks open on this issue, this is going to be a huge religious and political tug-of-war... if these clinics end life, how are they any different from abortion clinics??? Ya know? (and that discussion has its own baggage), but you know what I'm saying? This is a HUGE can of worms. I guess we will see what happens... abortion, fertility clinics, robots... what's next... 🤔🤔🤔😳
@@celticblessings8868 -- Oh, so much to unpack here. ~ The "who's to say who is too old to be a parent "question isn't up to us. Talk to the adoption agencies. Talk to the government. They've already made those decisions. ~ IVF has been around since the 1970s, and the first baby was born by this method in 1978. So still relatively new technology in the course of the entire human race, but not so new that people haven't already thoroughly debated these ethical issues. The religious and ethical tug-of-war has been happening since I was a preteen. ~ Thank goodness it is impossible for one couple to have "hundreds of thousands" of embryos in storage. Because it is **physiologically impossible for a woman to create that many eggs in her lifetime** , even with the use of IVF drugs. ▪️When we women are still teenagers, we have maybe 3-400,000 potential eggs left, because about 10,000 follicles that could have become eggs die off naturally every MONTH from the time we are born. ▪️By the time most couples start thinking about IVF, they've been trying on their own for a number of years, and the typical female patient is in her 30s or even 40s. She's going to have somewhere between 20,000 and 30,000 follicles left. ▪️And not all of those follicles are going to become eggs, even with IVF drugs. Even if dozens of follicles respond in a given IVF cycle, during the retrieval process, not every single follicle is actually going to contain a viable egg. ▪️Of the viable eggs that are retrieved in a cycle, not all will fertilize successfully, even if they add things like ICSI to the process to increase the success rate. ▪️ a woman can only undergo so many IVF cycles per year. There is a mandatory one to three month resting period between cycles for example, because you are required to have at least one spontaneously occurring menstrual cycle between treatment courses. And many of the women having IVF don't have regular cycles to start. ~ IVF clinics are not destroying life any more than God does himself. Up to 50% of naturally occurring conceptions don't make it to term, with many of those never even getting to the point of implantation, so the woman has no idea she had even conceived in the first place. Those embryos are just passed out with menstrual blood. And I don't wanna hear any arguments about how God gets to decide which of those embryos live in which ones die. If you're going to argue that the IVF follicles that never get used for an actual transfer that leads to pregnancy are already human souls, then, so the embryos that God lets die in a naturally occurring conception. I know your heart is in the right place, but please leave the science and medical aspects to people who understand these things, through either experience as healthcare professionals, or experience as patients.
@@Psychiatricnerd Ah, well... that WOULD explain it. I didn't even think abt that but I can respect it. It just kind of stuck out to me for whatever reason lol 😅
@@phoenixgamer1565 wrong incorrect and that’s not the actual reason. Embryos are not children because they have not been born yet. Let alone fertilized. These guys are going to be on the Bible they are saying that life begins before conception when you are an egg.
So hypothetically....can we start claiming frozen embryos as dependants? I'm tired of all these single moms getting tens of thousands at tax return season.
@@Psychiatricnerd Don't see why you couldn't make that argument in Alabama since this ruling literally defined an embryo as a "child" with all the attendant rights and privileges not being denied. The religious right saw the chance to make a sweeping law that would grant them the protections they wanted for the unborn, without considering what they are really opening the door to. If I lived in Alabama, I would push immediately to have every frozen embryo assigned a social security number and declare them as dependents since the donors are paying for their upkeep. That would be another tax deduction there, on top of the tax credits for multiple children. You'd think Alabama was one of the richest states to foot these new expenses instead of being one of the poorest and least able to afford them.
You can't have babies with your s/o by way alternative means But you can do your cousin Sweet home alabama Where the skies are so blue Sweet home alabama Lord dont want babies in test tubes
If embryos are children then you should be able to get life insurance on them. If embryos are children then you should be able to take maternity leave. If embryos are children then accidently destroying embryos would be homocide. If embryos are children, you should be able to claim them as dependents. Alabama is showing the rest of the nation that not all education is equal.
This should head to courts right away, with the people suing should ask, "Embryos are children? Really? Can you detect a heartbeat? Is there any brain activity? What's that, there is no heart or brain in an embryo? Then how can you call a mass of cells children?"
I’m pretty sure the courts have already decided this. I think Alabama is going to just get to do whatever it wants that’s what the Supreme Court’s gonna let happen. So that’s what is legal.
An embryo is a human life bc: it's alive (growing,) it's human bc the parents are human, it's a whole organism just like you and I and not a sperm, egg, skin flake, tumor...
@@lisaleidy344 the embryos were developed and grown to a specific time frame, and then purposefully halted. With IVF, the growth is paused with a special freezing liquid to disrupt its natural process. If the process goes wrong, the embryos die. Look at what happened to that London clinic with CooperSurgical. Left to it's natural habit, a womb, the embryo survives and thrives.
Im just gonna say it life begins at conception and all the people in the comments are loony they make thousands of new people with distinct dna seprate from the parents not just an egg a human and then they can decide which ones they will give a slim chance at life with usually only one will get a chance at life that is so sad and tragic bc all of those embyos if they were left alone (in the proper environment) they would turn into fully functional sentient humans just like you and me
@@kyrptonite1825 so if your wife or female child is raped and gets pregnant, would you force them to carry said pregnancy to term? Cause you know, no day after pill ...
@@shannonwolf7188 I don’t agree with banning abortion but this person would probably just tell you. Because they believe abortion is murder that you are not allowed to murder a child because The child makes you upset or reminds you of things that happened to you. That is not an excuse to take a life. That is what they would say. But I think that unless you are born you are not alive. And an egg does not meet the substantive definition of being born or alive or taking your first breath.
Wow. What backwards state do you live in where biologists or doctors make medical decisions? In Alabama, they know that only politicians and lawyers are truly capable of defining life and when it begins. Does your state still allow those barbaric practices of surgery by surgeons or have they finally realized that all it takes to cure disease is the power of prayer and organic food?
If embryos are children than so is your sperm, also if a woman has a miscarriage that’s wrongful death she should be in prison for not taking proper care of her fetus
Reguadless of how you feel abt the court's decision I've seen this echoed a few times but it doesn't make any sense, it's an apples and oranges comparison. Sperm is not a fertilized embryo. The proper comparison would be your UNfertilized eggs and last I checked no woman has ever been charged for having her period.
@@mo.ka.9661 Your question is pointless because I do not tell others that they should have IVF babies, unlike the OP who states people should adopt. The OP is a hypocrite and you are confused.
Alabama is a complete failure. They’ve been broke since slavery ended. Picture Scarlet O’Hara holding up that little ass carrot at the end of gone with the wind. Them and Mississippi. Look at their GDP rankings and educational rating 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. The only thing those states have going for them is college football. Going to Alabama is like being trapped in a sequel of “The Hills Have Eyes”. Why in the hell do we need more of these dumb ass people on the planet? Smfh.
@@mo.ka.9661 You mean, where did the ruling cite religion? Well, maybe the part about God's Wrath? These judges are worried people will go to Hell, while they act like the anti-Christ? Hypocrisy and amorality are corrupting Republicans to their graves. The Amoral Morality beat you with their upside down Bible. God help us.
So much hate for babies, children, and people in these comments. If a fertilized egg isn't a human being (which grows to be more developed overtime), why do couples who have a hard time conceiving do IVF? It's obvious isn't it? Human life starts at conception. We all started off as embryos, one fertilized egg and one sperm.
There isn't hate. There is protecting freedom. I just had an embryo destroyed 6 months ago because it wasn't the sex I wanted. Had nothing to do with hate just a personal preference and a level of freedom to exercise that.
You literally don't even understand that the ruling was explicitly made with religion and that this is not how any of that works. By your logic we might as well start considering every period a murder.
@Psychiatricnerd you mean the unborn. Obxiously, a woman's body can't be trusted in her own hands. She has her rights taken away in any medical situation that would arise in a pregnancy. It's the unborn. Not a human, it's unborn, an egg until fertilized. And even then, as I stated before, it's still the unborn that has presidency over the mother. Still, so very 😔 sad.
Yesterday I saw a billboard saying 'real men love babies' and that 'a heart beat starts at 18 days'. And I thought that was the most idiotic thing ever. Thank you Alabama for showing me something even dumber. As an aside: (1) heartbeats start around 4 weeks, (2) if a person is on life support because the heart is stopped, using a pace-maker because the heart doesn't work, or has heart-replacement surgery, we don't say the person is 'dead'. Because we all actually agree that heartbeat does not equal life, it was just the most efficient medieval way of ending life with pointy object. Just like the heart is not 'love', it was just pumping-extra hard when the brain said 'hey all, time for Arousal!' and blood needed to get to certain regions. Basic brain activity starts maybe around 8 weeks. Quickening is around 12-20 weeks. Viability (life independent of a host) is around 23-24 weeks. And a state and party that cares so freaking little about actual born, living, human beings shouldn't get a say into women being forced to host cells until they become actual babies, and then deliver those eventual babies.
no whats idiotic is ending a human life when you don't know when life begins. It's not a feature of the human experience but the existence of a person that determines when life begins. An embryo is a human life bc its alive (growing), human (2 parents), and a whole organism. Believing that human life begins at conception is not the same refusing to provide programs and funding for the poor. Purposely ending human life is always evil and everyone (regardless of gender) should be able to acknowledge this. Children are the natural result of sex. No one is forcing any mothers to have sex (except for rapists). We are just saying don't kill your baby.
@@TraditionalHippiebut with regards to IVF, what about the unused embryos? If they’re not used and nothing is done with them, they won’t continue to develop and won’t become children.
Okay let me break this down. The 18th day of the babies in utero life is what they are referring to. You won’t even know you are pregnant until around 10 days or even more after conception so roughly a week after that there’s a heartbeat. I had a 5 week ultrasound with my second baby and there was a strong heartbeat at this point. Call it dumb and do mental gymnastics if that makes you sleep at night but that’s the SCIENTIFIC truth.
@atricnerd That is not a scientific truth, that is an experience you had that you tied up with scientific things you have heard. Cardiac tissue Does start to pulse at 5-6 weeks, not at 18 days. But that's not a full heart, that's just an electrical pulse in the tissues forming in that area. It is not a 'heart', it is certainly not a 'viable heart', and it does not indicate a 'living baby'. Just indicates that things are developing along fine. And it is sweet to bond with it, nothing wrong with listening to it, (you can start bonding with it before you're even pregnant and are thinking through possible names), but the SCIENTIFIC truth is that it is just developing tissues in the area. It take another 4-6 weeks or so for the heart to actually form. And yea, there are some religious forced-birth-agenda institutions that will try to claim the earlier electrical activity is a 'heartbeat' but that is not a medical opinion and they do not have any medical evidence for it being an actual heart. Because the forced-birth movement absolutely loves lying or cherry-picking data and then presenting it as 'truth'. And I will re-iterate, a 'heart' doesn't mean a sentient being anymore then developing lungs, or toes, or whatever. They are organs and tissue. If you have heart-replacement surgery, or lose a toe, or use an iron lung, we don't say you are 'dead' or no longer 'human'. Because those things aren't what we actually consider 'alive' or 'sentient'. So even the heart actually forming (NOT at 6 weeks, but around 3-4 months) that's STILL not a baby. The first electrical pulses for what will become the brain are between 5-6 weeks. That's just the first pulses, according to SCIENCE. At about 7-8 weeks it starts triggering physical (random) movements as the wiring starts hooking up. At this stage the fetus is still not viable (it is not an organism that could live on its own, even with medical assistance) but you could Begin making the argument that this is a baby. And even Then, it would be your opinion as to what 'life' is, and others have good reasons for other opinions. And even if you get into an agreement that at X-months it is a baby, if it is not viable then I challenge anyone to prove that the possibly-successful-birth of a baby is worth the death of a mother - that one life is more important then the other. Because if there is a risk of death or permanent injury to the mother, we all have the right in all situations to choose to save our own lives over that of another. And there are and should be no laws saying any of us Have to die for anyone else unless we choose to take that risk. You can argue why someone should Choose that, we should not pass laws saying innocent very-real people should Have to die for a potential-life or for someone's opinions. So even then, even when you get most people agreeing its finally a baby, it really should be a discussion between a woman and her doctor(s). No other person's Opinion should have a voice there.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the amoeba parasite. Because I have had my amoeba parasite since before birth. It is still alive in me I found it on a microscope and I am male.
I need to really look into this. SO many of these comments are just emotional and probably miss the point of the case. Plus if your told its a bad decision by your preferred whatever then people will just mimic that like lemmings. Im not perfect and Ive don't that at times but we need to do better. No point in getting outraged by this stuff anyhow.
I saw the headline "Alabama rules that frozen embryos are children" really late last night and figured it was a dream once I woke up because it sounds so bizarre
Nope, just good ol Alabama at it again.
This is a direct result of the citizens of Alabama who file lawsuits over everything that slightly inconveniences them
To be honest, I thought they would rule that it is not a baby unless it came from your first cousin 💀
@@kantaria1138my son is a direct result of ivf and he very much is a child so I’m with Alabama on this one.
Nothing bizarre about it. I had ivf and created 8 embryos (in conjunction with my husband and God obviously). I had one implanted at 1:40p on a Tuesday (while my husband was overseas) and now have a 9 month old crawling around due to that. Embryos absolutely constitute a life.
Everyone in Alabama needs to adopt a frozen embryo to get tax write offs.
Oh! Excellent idea!
😂
Why wouldn’t they just go get a woman pregnant? Same logic. A human that is not yet out of the womb? Last two pregnancies I’ve had, that wasn’t a thing. Is there something I’m not aware of where we can start claiming benefits on unborn children?
I'm good on the popsicle babies
@@Psychiatricnerdgood on that too lol
This is all getting out of hand. UNITED STATES WE ARE NOT
This is the most patriotic ruling since over turning roe v wade!
We have not been united since the phat, orange insurrectionist refused to accept defeat.
What about those folks that fail to pay the storage fees? This is insane. An embryo is not a fetus. A fetus is not a baby.
That should be considered child abandonment then
They don't even have to pay for their student loans!!!!!
How so?
Things like consciousness or brain function apply to animals, and as such, they don’t imply personhood.
The thing that separates humans from animals is rational thought, that’s like our smarter thought like abstract thinking. Infants don’t have this and think more like animals. Does this mean it’s okay to do the same to them? What’s the difference?
Obviously, both are wrong, and changing stages of development doesn’t change personhood.
And a living human organism is begot at conception, it’s a scientific fact!
All three of those are human.
Imagine if Alabama was the center of intelligence in the country.
😂that’s why I watched I knew it was too good to be true 🤭🤣
Now that is a truly terrifying thought!
Funny enough, there’s a lot of rocket scientists in Alabama.
Why wouldn't they be?
With whom should we compare them? Our dearly beloved USPOS? Or perhaps the VP? Or, maybe even the idiots who voted for them simply because they don't understand how to debate issues and only see a "D" after the name? Oh, but Alabama...
Religious beliefs are not science Alabama judges practicing medicine without a license?
Science says life begins at conception. So there are hundreds of people frozen for YEARS. Even science says this is not right. Would you want to be frozen as an embryo for years?
That's a good LEGAL question, I mean are they Doctors? No. Are they making medical decisions for millions, yes.
Politics is largely based on philosophy anyways, since the sciences deal with natural phenomena. And therefore, they deal with things like ontology, and ultimately, theology.
@@wesleyballard6217 right... because only doctors can determine what murder is.
@@panamacityboiCan't "murder" an embryo....you need to color a book with a helmet on
Wow I'm moving to Alabama I could have 20-40 dependents who live in a freezer.
Yes! Think of the tax deductions!
Be careful if any of them "die" it's either neglect or murder depending on how.
1000 dollars a year. What does that translate to taxes. Get that deduction 👏👏
@@TychoKingdomThat would be the child care tax credit...I'm looking at the earned income tax credit....$7,430 if you have three or more qualifying children
What a low IQ troll post. Nope. Embryos are human beings, however you get ZERO child support until that child is born.
I feel sorry for anyone who can’t conceive a child naturally and this would be their only option. Unforgivable decision.
as a surrogate and knowing people who personally struggle with infertility this is absolutely disgusting
Nobody has a right to children, children have rights to parents. Nobody has rights to access unn/tural means to build a child like a build a bear, and then rent someone’s womb out like a hotel.
I personally don’t agree that people have a right to have children, only that children have a right to parents.
@@CalaverasRC youtube isn't natural, it's man made and yet you still watch it
@@CalaverasRC Who cares? The vast majority of things humans have done since we were neanderthals in caves "isnt natural". Grow up
Every person who has a frozen embryo in Alabama should be required to pick up their children. There must also be periodic welfare checks to ensure that the extra uterine children are well taken care of, and, it would be prudent to require that each parent set up a college fund for each extra uterine child. Insurance plans must, of course, be expanded to include extra uterine children, including annual exams and immunizations. In addition, because extra uterine children face the prospect of intense social isolation, the State should provide early childhood support services and pre-preschool for each affected individual.
Very good!! Can you make an embryo a beneficiary in your will? Does it have to have a Social Security number and a name?
Always a joker in every field.
This should apply to born children too
@@Leon-Servant-of-Christ The person who posted this is 100% correct. “Always a mooron in every field”. You must be a worshiper of the cult of criminal ex-president loser crybaby liar Cult45.
@@Leon-Servant-of-Christ So all of your incompetent, angry, vindictive gods have decided that you are an ediot also? Little boy, the invisible, imaginary dudes in the sky are not doing you any favors.
"Embryos mistakenly dropped and destroyed..."
Someone should be held liable for that, but the ruling seems too broad.
You know there are usually multiple failures between each success right. They literally can't work with this law cause every failure could be considered murder.
@@speedy01247 I think what zero is getting at is there is significant time and money that needs to be invested in getting embryos fertilized. In this instance the destruction of the embryos wasn't caused by the many natural things that can happen, but because someone literally dropped them which allowed them to warm up and decay.
Monetary damage was done here and the plaintiffs deserve a refund. How in the blue blazes this turned into a wrongful death case is beyond me, but the people of Alabama voted in the clown circus they now have for a state government and they deserve every incredibly predictable unintended consequence this will cause.
Namely the people of Alabama will probably no longer have ANY access to IVF in the future and it sounds like people who currently have fertilized embryos need to get those things destroyed before the destruction becomes criminalized, lest they get stuck paying $1,000 per embryo per year to keep each one frozen until the end of time.
Clients should educate themselves of all possible risks before chucking their seed in a deep freeze, and left under other peoples -babysitting- watch.
It is property.
One of the news reports I heard said it was a **patient** who took them out of the fridge and dropped them? I want to know why a patient was even allowed in that clinic's lab in the first place! That should 100% be an employees only area.
Under his eye.
It’s not about life, it’s about (some) men truing to control women. Don’t give up, push it back on them!!
If conception = life, then every miscarriage must be investigated as a murder, and since since men are statistically more likely to be physical abusers, every investigation starts with the guy. Interview his friends, his work, his secrets.
You’d get whiplash watching how quickly this BS law gets overturned.
Miscarriage is an accidental natural unaliving, not a murder.
What does ab-sers have to do with this? The controlling wom- line is so used up propaganda nobody takes it seriously. 😒
Exactly. This is all about control by men on to women. Can’t go back to that
Or to be frank you might uncover lots of Domestic Violence.
With what they’re saying a man shouldn’t masturbate either
What a stupid statement. A miscarriage is not the mother's fault. You are a sick, twisted individual.
"The state's "wrongful death of a minor" law treated those frozen embryos as children or persons. And the Alabama Supreme Court agreed with them in this Friday decision." This is correct and an accurate assessment. They are human beings (embryos) and their destruction should hold the person liable legally.
I stopped listening after "Alabama court rules"... everything that follows will undoubtedly be sketchy😅
Can they claim the embryos as dependents on their taxes?
That would punish men. The goal is to punish women only.
Great question...are ball sacks tax refundable?
Sperm had nothing to do with the bill though that was passed @trentcook8021
For what expenses?
Nope. I see the trolls are coming out of the woodwork. Embryos and/or fetuses are human beings, but no child support until after they have been born.
Preserve life at any cost !! Till the buggers take their 1st breath and expects food & shelter .
Are you suggesting infanticide?
@@mo.ka.9661 nah, I think he just wants little kids to be taken care of.
@@mo.ka.9661No the suggestion is before birth the state is concerned about the well being of the fetus, and will spare no expense...after its born, the child is suddenly your problem.
@@wesleyballard6217 it seems like the opposite, mocking the idea of protecting life
@@mo.ka.9661 it probably "seems" like that because your emotionally invested in a scientific dilemma. Read up on stoicism. You need ancient wisdom
I recall having a constitutional right to live free of religious oppression... sue.
Every political question is ultimately religious.
Yep, I’m sick of it. They need to keep it in their churches and homes (and mental facilities)
I don't recall the law citing religion
@@mo.ka.9661we all know where it comes from.
You have no right to murder a child, which is what an embryo is.
They never take ALL your rights away at once. They do it little by little, one law at a time. And if we don’t WAKE UP soon, it will be too late to do anything about it.
no one has a right to a child
If they sued for wrongful death shouldn't the state arrest them for child abandonment?
My heart breaks for all sane people in Alabama.
They know where the U-haul is.
Freedom to step on the freedom of others is reinforcement of power over others, not freedom.
We don’t have freedom to do a lot of things, such as freezing a human being in time against their will…
Well, that’s Alabama for you.
spilling seed is still legal... for now
Life begins at conception, a sperm cell isn’t an organism, it won’t eventually become an adult human, an embryo will. A sperm cell is a part of an organism, like an arm. Whereas an embryo is a whole organism.
And it probably should be, contraception is what created hookup culture, and is the reason birth rates are at irreplaceable levels. It’s one of the main reason the youth are so lonely, besides social media, and bad urban design.
@@kyrptonite1825 InCel.
So if an embryo just sits there will it become a person no it won't. Saying an embryo is a person is like saying the food in a woman's stomach is a person because it could keep a baby alive if she was pregnant. This is the silliest crap I've ever heard. You Christians should go back to when you all thought sperm cells were spirits and woman were cursed to suffer through child birth
That is not a human being. Embryos are. Try harder next time, troll.
Keep trying to freeze my kid but they're resisting and yelling. Should I call a Dr or a Lawyer? 🤪
Politician. A doctor wouldn't know the law, a lawyer would charge you for his advice, but a politician will tell you exactly what you should do and thus assumes the responsibility for you doing what they say.
Embryo storage facilities should apply to the state for child support, if the parents won’t take these “children.” Or, request that they be put in foster care. It’ll either get too expensive or too ridiculous. This is a very complicated and wrong decision.
You're missing the entire point these facilities are creating life playing God only to decide which embryos (babies) live and which die only a select few are even given the chance to know what a warm embrace from their mother is or the comfort of the constant beating of their heart they're made in a lab then discarded like a failed science experiment
From whom the mother of the embryo?
@@smokedbeefandcheese4144 yes! Or the dad, since it does take both to make an embryo. Basically, if a kid is left at a Walmart, no one expects that Walmart to care for the child at their expense, right? It’s up to the state if the parents can’t be found to be responsible. So why should fertility clinics be required to do so? So, Alabama better be ready to step forward as foster care for thousands of frozen children!
@@michellestephenson1680 Not to mention find surrogates to carry all those embryos to birth. Oh, and cover the costs.
I think that the few reproductive endocrinologists in Alabama who aren't already listing their houses for sale and calling their professional colleagues out of state to find new jobs, should absolutely petition the state to immediately take over all financial burdens associated with the maintenance of the facilities and equipment where embryos are already frozen. Take that burden off of the prospective parents and other patients of the clinic, and make it a taxpayer funded endeavor. After all, if these embryos are already people, they should qualify for some sort of public assistance, just like a disabled veteran or an elderly widow.
What a CF of a decision based on Religion and nothing more.
Did they invoke scripture?
Right? Next thing you know, we’ll be facing murder charges for jerking off. 😮
Much of the “science “ people site for conception life have heavy, religious undertones, and bend science, in really deceitful ways.
Listen to the medical and scientific professionals who have dedicated their lives to understanding the subject, not politicians, looking to be reelected .
No. Once fertilized is a living growing life form. It’s not children though. Also, they don’t mention how many years an embryo would be viable.
Almost makes you wonder what the Democrats could do if they tried. Like if these guys can just change laws based on religion. You guys could change them based on other stuff I mean if they were politically competent.
This shows a misunderstanding of how it even works, like multiple attempts are made and only a few are successful, are the failures murders and does it count as desecration of a corpse to get rid of them? (Desecration is probably the wrong word, but I can't remember the legal term right now)
I went through IVF with my wife and it was hell on us both. I really struggled with the morality of our unused embryos. I’m not sure what the right answer is, but I am sure the government doesn’t need to be involved in the decision. There are so many things wrong in this world, don’t make life harder for people trying to conceive.
Even in typical pregnancy, the number of those that fail is pretty high, medically speaking. And we've seen that scenario before, where normal people who have miscarriages end up getting caught in draconian laws like this.
It is not a misunderstanding. The flippant disregard of human life, i.e. routinely killing multiple embryos, makes IVF worse, and an argument against it. Some ethical minded people only create what they need, and don't formulate "backup plans"
@@TraditionalHippie how many does a typical family need?
My doctor tried impregnating 10 of my wife’s eggs, only 6 made it to Day 10, and of those 6 only 3 were high enough quality to try implanting (of those 3, only 2 passed genetic testing). One of those embryos didn’t take after the doctors tried implanting, no miscarriage, nothing- just a failed attempt. The second embryo took but she miscarried between 4-5 weeks. That was one round of “trying”. We did this 4 different times with varying results; we needed to reset and get more eggs/create more embryos, and had to reset for different reasons- before finally succeeding. None of this was covered by insurance for what it’s worth.
We also switched doctors at one point as I lost faith in our first doctor. It’s an incredibly scummy industry full of doctors that manipulate statistics and prey on people when they’re at their most vulnerable.
@@TraditionalHippie -- the problem is you don't know how many you "need" until after the fact. Sometimes it will be multiple cycles where you have only transferred one or two embryos and no pregnancy occurs. The human body does not work in a neat mathematical way that people would like it to work. You need to have some redundancy and some wiggle room in the process because it is art as much as science
There are still a lot of things we don't understand about why one cycle will work, and another cycle will fail.
And many couples are not fortunate enough to make enough embryos in a given cycle to have any leftover to freeze in the first place.
Please leave these conversations to people with actual training in the area. And do not pass judgment on people who have gone through this as patients, either. You don't have the first clue about what is actually involved in any of this.
And you also don't have the first clue about how many **naturally occurring** conceptions never make it to the point of even implanting.
If this is the case then a pregnant woman in Alabama can drive in the carpool lane?
They leave out that the clinic negligently left the cryo freezer unlocked, a psych patient got out and went in. Grabbed a dish of embryos and dropped them due to how cold they were.
So what let’s say another similar situation happens. That doesn’t mean all sperm Samples are children. What happens if they declare all the sperm is like that. Then that means if you’re pulling somebody’s genetic material out of the freezer you could be on the hook for so many murders because of how many cells there are
Yikes. I’d be livid. I did two rounds of ivf and I’d be suing too if that happened.
Absolutely insane what is happening!
An embryo is not a child
Of course it is
@@mo.ka.9661no
It 100% is a child. Just very, very small and developing into the final stages before birth.
Nope but they’re a human.
Infants can’t think abstracts either is it okay to say they’re not a child? Animals can think and are conscious, are they persons? You guys aren’t right.
My sistet had IVF after surviving cancer which left her infertal. She would have been devastated if someone dropped her embros. Its a shame that something that started with a family wanting accountability got all turned upside down with politics.
Mayyyybe focus on your actual children than what you determine to be children....
Maybe focus on all children equally
Republicans are just gonna do handmaid‘s tale and you guys are just gonna watch… Because stopping the Republicans would require you to do some thing that liberals just can’t and will not do.
When is this madness going to stop?
If I were the busybody embryo dropping defendant, I'd be appealing this asap. Even with this corrupt, pro-coup stacked iteration SCOTUS, I'd still hope for some kind of sanity.
scotus agenda is states rights no matter how messed up. How else will they excuse fingering this coming election?
Okay, this is getting ridiculous and im conservative 🤦♀️ Can we just stick to the REAL issues going on in America and stop with the tit for tat BS?!?!?! THIS IS NOT A WIN!!!!
Embryos are humans. Ask any biologist. The real question is destroying an embryo life the same as killing a person? That’s the moral dilemma.
An embryo is their own person with their own DNA and everything. Would it be OK to freeze a toddler for years? No, it wouldn't be. So if a person's size shouldn't determine how many rights they have, then embryos should be treated with dignity
@vigilantbride exactly. Stop freezing people against their will.
Chicken embryos aren't humans. Neither are human eggs.
Did you just type all the dumbest things you could into one comment.
Well, if you say personhood comes from something like consciousness or brain function, or sapience, you’d be saying that an animal is a person, but we hunt and eat them.
If you say it’s rational thought, basically the ability to think like humans, abstract thought and such which is above normal animal thoughts, then you’d have to say it’s okay to do the same to infants, since they have not begun thinking rationally yet.
Hence, the whole argument in my opinion, that their mot persons is stupid, and essentially if you say it’s okay for one (fetuses), it’s also okay for inf-ts. It’s therefore, about b-bies, in general.
And anyone who actually thinks it’s okay to do something to an inf-NT has something wrong with them. We all inherently know it’s wrong. And if you deny these inherent instincts your basically denying all morality, since it relies on inherent instincts a lot (like us just knowing m-rder is wrong), and at that point it’s the people who believe in m-r-lity arguing against people who shouldn’t be arguing about it in the first place, since they don’t believe in it, and anything could then go. Which would be terrible for society anyways.
There are millions of children, around the world who do not have parents, and they remain UNWANTED. How can we as a world, encourage IVF to create and keep unborn 'on ice' while actual living children dwell in poverty without parents. I hope this new perspective encourages people to adopt already existing children who deserve good homes.
Pro-lifers have had decades to adopt unwanted children and yet there are still around 500k unwanted children in the foster system in the US alone. It's funny how vocal they were about all those children having the right to be born, but how unwilling they are to actually care about them once they were born.
Some couples are deemed to be too old for adoption by adoption agencies, including agencies from overseas, but might still be able to conceive with IVF. That is at least one example of why they might not adopt instead.
Another very important question is why people who are able to conceive easily and for free, feel that only infertile individuals and couples have the responsibility for adopting these unwanted children.
If your concern is truly for the well-being of these children, shouldn't YOU be adopting some of them yourself?
Shouldn't couples who already have children of their own ALSO adopt some of these children?
IVF is used for people like me whose mothers have a problem with a pregnancy Take your ignorant comments and go someplace else It wasn't for IVF me and my twin sister wouldn't be alive today
@@TakenTook those are some very good points; you know, this is very new territory for us all, it's the first time in history where a pregnancy can be created in a test tube, rather than thru human contact. I think we will all have lots of questions, and come up with lots of complaints and concerns as this develops. Because who's to say someone is 'to old' for parenting, or other things which bar people from adoption. And at what point it does it stop being ok to keep your offspring in a freezer, held hostage in ice? I will tell you though, parenting is very individually based - I raised 3 kids and felt like I went thru the blender, I was so absolutely exhausted, but yet, that woman on TLC raised "19 Kids & Counting" and wasn't exhausted (although other issues became a concern). And if we are going by the Bible, then old age is not on the radar at all because Abraham didn't have children until he and his wife Sarah were extremely old, and a few others in the bible also had similar ages when they became parents. I think faith matters, but we also have to use common sense. I don't understand how fertility clinics work, or what-all they do, but I'm kind of under the impression that one couple has possibly hundreds or thousands of fertilized eggs in that freezer, and that may be overkill (no body needs that many fertilized eggs...😶). And whose choice is it to keep another person from developing... if these eggs are in the freezer shouldn't they at some point be permitted to grow into the person they were meant to be? Are they being held prisoner in a freezer? That's kind of a horror story right there...😱. And there's such a long list of concerns we haven't even thought of yet, and I think when pandora's box cracks open on this issue, this is going to be a huge religious and political tug-of-war... if these clinics end life, how are they any different from abortion clinics??? Ya know? (and that discussion has its own baggage), but you know what I'm saying? This is a HUGE can of worms. I guess we will see what happens... abortion, fertility clinics, robots... what's next... 🤔🤔🤔😳
@@celticblessings8868 -- Oh, so much to unpack here.
~ The "who's to say who is too old to be a parent "question isn't up to us. Talk to the adoption agencies. Talk to the government. They've already made those decisions.
~ IVF has been around since the 1970s, and the first baby was born by this method in 1978. So still relatively new technology in the course of the entire human race, but not so new that people haven't already thoroughly debated these ethical issues. The religious and ethical tug-of-war has been happening since I was a preteen.
~ Thank goodness it is impossible for one couple to have "hundreds of thousands" of embryos in storage. Because it is **physiologically impossible for a woman to create that many eggs in her lifetime** , even with the use of IVF drugs.
▪️When we women are still teenagers, we have maybe 3-400,000 potential eggs left, because about 10,000 follicles that could have become eggs die off naturally every MONTH from the time we are born.
▪️By the time most couples start thinking about IVF, they've been trying on their own for a number of years, and the typical female patient is in her 30s or even 40s. She's going to have somewhere between 20,000 and 30,000 follicles left.
▪️And not all of those follicles are going to become eggs, even with IVF drugs. Even if dozens of follicles respond in a given IVF cycle, during the retrieval process, not every single follicle is actually going to contain a viable egg.
▪️Of the viable eggs that are retrieved in a cycle, not all will fertilize successfully, even if they add things like ICSI to the process to increase the success rate.
▪️ a woman can only undergo so many IVF cycles per year. There is a mandatory one to three month resting period between cycles for example, because you are required to have at least one spontaneously occurring menstrual cycle between treatment courses. And many of the women having IVF don't have regular cycles to start.
~ IVF clinics are not destroying life any more than God does himself. Up to 50% of naturally occurring conceptions don't make it to term, with many of those never even getting to the point of implantation, so the woman has no idea she had even conceived in the first place. Those embryos are just passed out with menstrual blood. And I don't wanna hear any arguments about how God gets to decide which of those embryos live in which ones die. If you're going to argue that the IVF follicles that never get used for an actual transfer that leads to pregnancy are already human souls, then, so the embryos that God lets die in a naturally occurring conception.
I know your heart is in the right place, but please leave the science and medical aspects to people who understand these things, through either experience as healthcare professionals, or experience as patients.
Kind of off topic I know, but... 2:14 ...why is this man not wearimg shoes?
It’s Minnesota and there’s snow outside. I’m guessing he didn’t want to get the carpet filthy. Like a true Minnesotan he took the hit.
@@Psychiatricnerd Ah, well... that WOULD explain it. I didn't even think abt that but I can respect it. It just kind of stuck out to me for whatever reason lol 😅
@@Achromania it made me laugh 😂
Men should have to pay child support for frozen fetuses.
Why can wom-n refuse to c-rry out a pregnancy, but men have to pay ch-ld support?
Pretty sure Alabama has a high level of “keeping it in the family”. Can’t expect them to make good decisions
Ye we should let them succeed and watch Alabama become Haiti
Because an embryo is a child.. freezing then is heinous.
It also leads to a ton of abortions
IVF should be used sparingly, such as for efforts to help declining ethnic groups, as was done in Hungary.
Embryos don't have pain perception yet. So, nope.
@@phoenixgamer1565 wrong incorrect and that’s not the actual reason. Embryos are not children because they have not been born yet. Let alone fertilized. These guys are going to be on the Bible they are saying that life begins before conception when you are an egg.
@@orvos1459 So infertile woman should just suck it up and accept that they are failures at motherhood?
The question people should ask is why are people becoming infertile!!
Would be great to know. Unfortunately for many of us, it’s too late to change course. What’s done is done.
IVF is beyond unethical. There are so many children who NEED loving families.
So hypothetically....can we start claiming frozen embryos as dependants? I'm tired of all these single moms getting tens of thousands at tax return season.
Only if we can start claiming that children in utero are dependents.
@@Psychiatricnerd Don't see why you couldn't make that argument in Alabama since this ruling literally defined an embryo as a "child" with all the attendant rights and privileges not being denied. The religious right saw the chance to make a sweeping law that would grant them the protections they wanted for the unborn, without considering what they are really opening the door to. If I lived in Alabama, I would push immediately to have every frozen embryo assigned a social security number and declare them as dependents since the donors are paying for their upkeep. That would be another tax deduction there, on top of the tax credits for multiple children. You'd think Alabama was one of the richest states to foot these new expenses instead of being one of the poorest and least able to afford them.
This woman looks like she is an activist with no children, but still gives advice on children
I've been struggling with this topic, but your video cleared it up for me. Thanks a ton!
You can't have babies with your s/o by way alternative means
But you can do your cousin
Sweet home alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet home alabama
Lord dont want babies in test tubes
Absolutely horrendous!! Damn Reputation!!
ROLL TIDE... more like roll back the calendar.
So an embryo is a child but, a 3 month old pregnancy is not a human.?
You are acting like the group that says A is the same group that says b.
If embryos are children then you should be able to get life insurance on them. If embryos are children then you should be able to take maternity leave. If embryos are children then accidently destroying embryos would be homocide. If embryos are children, you should be able to claim them as dependents. Alabama is showing the rest of the nation that not all education is equal.
Well, you got the homicide in Alabama part correct, which is why they are not providing this to infertile women anymore.
This should head to courts right away, with the people suing should ask, "Embryos are children? Really? Can you detect a heartbeat? Is there any brain activity? What's that, there is no heart or brain in an embryo? Then how can you call a mass of cells children?"
I’m pretty sure the courts have already decided this. I think Alabama is going to just get to do whatever it wants that’s what the Supreme Court’s gonna let happen. So that’s what is legal.
Heartbeats and brain activity are found in chickens, are chickens persons?
An embryo is a human life bc: it's alive (growing,) it's human bc the parents are human, it's a whole organism just like you and I and not a sperm, egg, skin flake, tumor...
@@TraditionalHippiebut the embryo isn’t alive/growing until it is WM planted I. A uterus.
@@lisaleidy344 the embryos were developed and grown to a specific time frame, and then purposefully halted. With IVF, the growth is paused with a special freezing liquid to disrupt its natural process. If the process goes wrong, the embryos die. Look at what happened to that London clinic with CooperSurgical.
Left to it's natural habit, a womb, the embryo survives and thrives.
Only the cousin lover states doing this bs
My only question is what are they going to do with the Frozen embryos? because they're not in a woman's womb so wouldn't the state be killing them?
LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION, LIKE IT OR NOT!
Alabama say Florida and couldn't let them "out-stupid" them.
Im just gonna say it life begins at conception and all the people in the comments are loony they make thousands of new people with distinct dna seprate from the parents not just an egg a human and then they can decide which ones they will give a slim chance at life with usually only one will get a chance at life that is so sad and tragic bc all of those embyos if they were left alone (in the proper environment) they would turn into fully functional sentient humans just like you and me
Funny thing is when they make a breakthrough, they won't second guess getting the treatment from this research.
These people are insane.
So bizarre
that's the last time i try carrying a dozen embryo tubes while also eating a bowl of spaghetti in the lab
So the day after pill is illegal to
That would be a go-d th-ng
@@kyrptonite1825 so if your wife or female child is raped and gets pregnant, would you force them to carry said pregnancy to term? Cause you know, no day after pill ...
@@shannonwolf7188 I don’t agree with banning abortion but this person would probably just tell you. Because they believe abortion is murder that you are not allowed to murder a child because The child makes you upset or reminds you of things that happened to you. That is not an excuse to take a life. That is what they would say. But I think that unless you are born you are not alive. And an egg does not meet the substantive definition of being born or alive or taking your first breath.
Of course they’re children! Good grief.
You’re as cold as ice;
Willing to sacrifice our love.
The about stupidity in the laws being made nowadays is just baffling any certified legit biologist would say an embryo is not a child.
Wow. What backwards state do you live in where biologists or doctors make medical decisions? In Alabama, they know that only politicians and lawyers are truly capable of defining life and when it begins. Does your state still allow those barbaric practices of surgery by surgeons or have they finally realized that all it takes to cure disease is the power of prayer and organic food?
child just means offspring, which an embryo is bc its a whole organism with two human parents
If embryos are children than so is your sperm, also if a woman has a miscarriage that’s wrongful death she should be in prison for not taking proper care of her fetus
Reguadless of how you feel abt the court's decision I've seen this echoed a few times but it doesn't make any sense, it's an apples and oranges comparison. Sperm is not a fertilized embryo. The proper comparison would be your UNfertilized eggs and last I checked no woman has ever been charged for having her period.
Where's Waldo's lesbian sister?
Good. People should adopt anyway.
How many unwanted children have you adopted?
Yeah, thought so.
IVF is necessary for declining ethnic groups, such as in Europe and Japan.
@@humbleevidenceaccepter7712how many ivf babies have you had?
@@mo.ka.9661 Your question is pointless because I do not tell others that they should have IVF babies, unlike the OP who states people should adopt.
The OP is a hypocrite and you are confused.
should have settled the case out of court
Well the answer is vote those people out of office if possible…only way to beat this.
This ruling only affects Alabama.
For now...
Lol at Alabama
Wtaf?
So sad
All I saw was this chicks haircut and vest and I knew what side she was reporting from lol
This is like something from "Legally Blonde".
Religion needs to learn its place and that place is not dictating our laws
Embryos are as much human as ingredients for cake in a bowl, are a cake.
Either you say that life begins at fertilization, or you say that DNA is not a unique identification of a human being.
It’s Alabama. They’re slow, ornery and broke. What do you expect?
Way smarter than all the flooded cities imo
@@kyrptonite1825 Flooded cities?! Fill me in.
Alabama is a complete failure. They’ve been broke since slavery ended. Picture Scarlet O’Hara holding up that little ass carrot at the end of gone with the wind. Them and Mississippi. Look at their GDP rankings and educational rating 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. The only thing those states have going for them is college football. Going to Alabama is like being trapped in a sequel of “The Hills Have Eyes”. Why in the hell do we need more of these dumb ass people on the planet? Smfh.
Raises questions? It's unconstitutional.
I missed that clause in the constitution, could you cite it for me?
@@theredtechengineer1480the one about not using religion to make laws. It's the first sentence of the first amendment.
@speedy01247 where did the law cite religion?
@@theredtechengineer1480 Privacy clause, Claude.
@@mo.ka.9661 You mean, where did the ruling cite religion? Well, maybe the part about God's Wrath? These judges are worried people will go to Hell, while they act like the anti-Christ? Hypocrisy and amorality are corrupting Republicans to their graves. The Amoral Morality beat you with their upside down Bible. God help us.
They both agree,soo what is the problem..? You knew they are kids, or why else would you freeze them?..
So much hate for babies, children, and people in these comments.
If a fertilized egg isn't a human being (which grows to be more developed overtime), why do couples who have a hard time conceiving do IVF? It's obvious isn't it? Human life starts at conception. We all started off as embryos, one fertilized egg and one sperm.
There isn't hate. There is protecting freedom. I just had an embryo destroyed 6 months ago because it wasn't the sex I wanted. Had nothing to do with hate just a personal preference and a level of freedom to exercise that.
You literally don't even understand that the ruling was explicitly made with religion and that this is not how any of that works. By your logic we might as well start considering every period a murder.
Your position makes as much sense as valuing an acorn the same as a mighty oak tree.
@dcboys4195 freedom does not extend to commiting gender-based violence
@@humbleevidenceaccepter7712makes no sense to compare humans to plants
I feel for people trying to have kids but I would never considered a fertilized egg as a child unless it's attached to a uterus.
the couple do deserve compensation though.
Welcome to The Republican Handmaid’s Tale.
Meanwhile interfering with a child's Rights and an adults Rights and interfering with function of government and free pollution production
So if a embryo is a human being can i put as a dependent on my taxe🤔
Nope. Not until after birth.
Maybe you should be able too…
Are they nuts?????
It will never end. Now that Roe vs Wade is undone, America goes backwards. 😮 Sad sad sad.... 😢
Only sad if you hate human life.
@Psychiatricnerd you mean the unborn. Obxiously, a woman's body can't be trusted in her own hands. She has her rights taken away in any medical situation that would arise in a pregnancy. It's the unborn. Not a human, it's unborn, an egg until fertilized. And even then, as I stated before, it's still the unborn that has presidency over the mother. Still, so very 😔 sad.
Yesterday I saw a billboard saying 'real men love babies' and that 'a heart beat starts at 18 days'. And I thought that was the most idiotic thing ever. Thank you Alabama for showing me something even dumber.
As an aside: (1) heartbeats start around 4 weeks, (2) if a person is on life support because the heart is stopped, using a pace-maker because the heart doesn't work, or has heart-replacement surgery, we don't say the person is 'dead'. Because we all actually agree that heartbeat does not equal life, it was just the most efficient medieval way of ending life with pointy object. Just like the heart is not 'love', it was just pumping-extra hard when the brain said 'hey all, time for Arousal!' and blood needed to get to certain regions.
Basic brain activity starts maybe around 8 weeks. Quickening is around 12-20 weeks. Viability (life independent of a host) is around 23-24 weeks. And a state and party that cares so freaking little about actual born, living, human beings shouldn't get a say into women being forced to host cells until they become actual babies, and then deliver those eventual babies.
no whats idiotic is ending a human life when you don't know when life begins. It's not a feature of the human experience but the existence of a person that determines when life begins. An embryo is a human life bc its alive (growing), human (2 parents), and a whole organism. Believing that human life begins at conception is not the same refusing to provide programs and funding for the poor. Purposely ending human life is always evil and everyone (regardless of gender) should be able to acknowledge this.
Children are the natural result of sex. No one is forcing any mothers to have sex (except for rapists). We are just saying don't kill your baby.
@@TraditionalHippiebut with regards to IVF, what about the unused embryos? If they’re not used and nothing is done with them, they won’t continue to develop and won’t become children.
@@independentRestorationServices they are removed from their cryogenic prison and disregarded like trash
Okay let me break this down. The 18th day of the babies in utero life is what they are referring to. You won’t even know you are pregnant until around 10 days or even more after conception so roughly a week after that there’s a heartbeat. I had a 5 week ultrasound with my second baby and there was a strong heartbeat at this point. Call it dumb and do mental gymnastics if that makes you sleep at night but that’s the SCIENTIFIC truth.
@atricnerd That is not a scientific truth, that is an experience you had that you tied up with scientific things you have heard. Cardiac tissue Does start to pulse at 5-6 weeks, not at 18 days. But that's not a full heart, that's just an electrical pulse in the tissues forming in that area. It is not a 'heart', it is certainly not a 'viable heart', and it does not indicate a 'living baby'. Just indicates that things are developing along fine. And it is sweet to bond with it, nothing wrong with listening to it, (you can start bonding with it before you're even pregnant and are thinking through possible names), but the SCIENTIFIC truth is that it is just developing tissues in the area. It take another 4-6 weeks or so for the heart to actually form. And yea, there are some religious forced-birth-agenda institutions that will try to claim the earlier electrical activity is a 'heartbeat' but that is not a medical opinion and they do not have any medical evidence for it being an actual heart. Because the forced-birth movement absolutely loves lying or cherry-picking data and then presenting it as 'truth'.
And I will re-iterate, a 'heart' doesn't mean a sentient being anymore then developing lungs, or toes, or whatever. They are organs and tissue. If you have heart-replacement surgery, or lose a toe, or use an iron lung, we don't say you are 'dead' or no longer 'human'. Because those things aren't what we actually consider 'alive' or 'sentient'. So even the heart actually forming (NOT at 6 weeks, but around 3-4 months) that's STILL not a baby. The first electrical pulses for what will become the brain are between 5-6 weeks. That's just the first pulses, according to SCIENCE. At about 7-8 weeks it starts triggering physical (random) movements as the wiring starts hooking up. At this stage the fetus is still not viable (it is not an organism that could live on its own, even with medical assistance) but you could Begin making the argument that this is a baby.
And even Then, it would be your opinion as to what 'life' is, and others have good reasons for other opinions. And even if you get into an agreement that at X-months it is a baby, if it is not viable then I challenge anyone to prove that the possibly-successful-birth of a baby is worth the death of a mother - that one life is more important then the other. Because if there is a risk of death or permanent injury to the mother, we all have the right in all situations to choose to save our own lives over that of another. And there are and should be no laws saying any of us Have to die for anyone else unless we choose to take that risk. You can argue why someone should Choose that, we should not pass laws saying innocent very-real people should Have to die for a potential-life or for someone's opinions. So even then, even when you get most people agreeing its finally a baby, it really should be a discussion between a woman and her doctor(s). No other person's Opinion should have a voice there.
If I use embryos like those human batteries in matrix then is it considered child labor?
Only if it is for a corporation that donates the big bucks to the GOP and/or the Demo's.
Everybody so upset because they ruled it unlawful to destroy an embryo 😂
You're lack of understanding why says much.
@@TruthFiction Not at all brother. god bless 🤙🏼🙏🇺🇸
This is so stupid
Life begins at 4.1 billion years ago, sperm and eggs are living too.
Legal rights should begin at birth.
Wtf do these people know basic biology?
That’s good stop playing god
Its a blob of cells
So are u
I wonder if this has anything to do with the amoeba parasite. Because I have had my amoeba parasite since before birth. It is still alive in me I found it on a microscope and I am male.
I need to really look into this. SO many of these comments are just emotional and probably miss the point of the case. Plus if your told its a bad decision by your preferred whatever then people will just mimic that like lemmings. Im not perfect and Ive don't that at times but we need to do better. No point in getting outraged by this stuff anyhow.
finally! our future AI overlord can start stockpiling humans in the freezer
No, that would be unlawful imprisonment.
Good this is not the will of god