In this video I explore the wild world of Gun Disarms with Icy Mike from @hard2hurt .. will they work? If you want to learn more from me check out www.senseiseth.com
Realistically, someone should only attempt to take the gun from someone if they are sure there's no getting out alive anyway. One thing that wasn't shown in the testing with the fake guns, is that if you grab the gun to get off the x for that first shot, your grab may stop another round from being chambered which gives you a huge chance of getting away.
On the other hand (no pun intended), Seth's grabbing for the gun often ending up with fingers in front of the muzzle show that grabbing the gun probably isn't a good idea.
@@OptimusSledge It's not a good idea at all, which is why I prefaced by saying it should only be done if you're sure they're going to shoot you. Better to risk being shot in the fingers than in the face.
The question is, when do you ever know you can get out alive? If they are crazy enough to pull a gun on you, probably crazy enough to shot you with out much reason.
@@OptimusSledge would you rather get shot in the hand or be dead? "grabbing the gun isn't a good idea." If you're not willing to get shot then don't attempt a gun disarm. Try and get shot in a non-vital area, and exactly as op says, try to attempt to stop another round from chambering, and stopping the hammer and/or trying to mag release (though that isn't likely). It's like saying "I want to be able to fight well enough to win any fight... without any risk of getting hit/hurt" it's possible but not likely. Plan to get hit. Plan to get shot.
The style I was trained in had techniques for disarming guns, and my instructor refused to teach them because he didn't want anyone to think they could fight someone with a gun.
Why does no one do these disarms with a nerf/pellet gun while wearing safety goggles to see if you get shot? Edit: Sensei Seth did exactly that. Respect
Well, a nerf/water gun is probably the safest method. BBs and pellets can break skin and cause serious injury, so you can't really use them casually. And it why and airsoft and paintball leagues use body shields and helmets.
We've done exactly this for dozens of sessions at my pentjak silat dojo. The disarm techniques typically work 60% to 80% of the time. When it fails the defender generally gets shot. So people do sometimes practice exactly as you suggest.
I really respect the ending there, where you say "I don't know". The honest truth is, many martial art instructors out there don't know either. But instead of saying or even realizing that, they delude themselves and others by insisting that they do, and worse yet, present solutions rarely ever works.
You are being vague and dont have anyone in particular as an example. Here let me use your style but more accurately. Pretty much all instructors say not to attempt it unless you have no choice and that it probably wont work but they teach you techniques that may work, especially if you train them. You wouldn't look at a single ju jitzu video for example and then think you can pull those techniques off on anyone without practicing them.
I've taught martial arts gun disarm techniques for 30+ years. We've done extensive testing with airsoft handguns. Summary: we find the gun disarm techniques we teach succeed roughly 60% to 80% of the time. That's 20% to 40% chance of swift death, which is bad odds, so only try such techniques in a desperate situation.
But most techniques fail more often than not. Watch any sport fighting match and you will likely see dozens if not hundreds of techniques that have little or no effect. If you understand the mechanics of popping a weapon out of someone's grip it is actually very easy if you train it. People seem to expect a guarantee that they wont get hurt while trying to disarm somebody but of course that is a ridiculous expectation to have.
Another point ALL these "gun disarms" don't consider: A gun with live ammo moves violently when going off. Slides move, cylinders rotate, gasses violently expel out. Depending on the size of the gun, and caliber of the ammo; you could easily cut, pinch, or blast off your finders holding it wrong. Guns have grips and handles for a reason.
and the gas plume can do almost as much damage as the bullet in some cases (like point blank range) so even if they don't hit you, they can still severely injure you just by firing anywhere remotely close to you
That's what I was wondering, simple physics seems to suggest to me, that holding onto a gun that is firing would be pretty bloody difficult and even if successful would likely result in quite bad injury, that would likely make it impossible to keep holding on to it. Of course, if there is no other option, then you might as well try, but I worry about the number of people who are overly confident due to many of the terrible videos out there.
@@sadtosuccess Funnily enough holding onto it isnt that hard when you talk about the simple force of a 9mmbullet. We tried that and it´s possible when you arent hit by any hot gas. The force itself is less than a punch after all. So if you can stop a punch you can stop the gun and the slider. The additional arm movement the guy is gonna make when you try to grab his gun on the other hand...
That's interesting. I never though of that. I saw a video years ago where a gun guy talked about why you never hold a revolver by the cylinder. His reasoning was that a lot of gasses escape through the side of the cylinder, and it can hurt you. Plus if the cylinder isnt aligned right you'll get bits of metal coming out the sides. I don't know how this translates to semi autos and clip-fed guns, but it's gotta be a comparable amount of energy so I assume in the wrong instance it could hurt you.
mike casually eating that pizza as he slaps the nerf gun away to prove his point :') he didn't give away shit until he acted, very good sleight of mind stuff to mask your priming.
Years ago a couple of guys - their names were Bob Taylor and Randy Warner - put out a video series on self-defense. Parts of their videos occasionally show up on RUclips with people poking fun at their (standing) 1990s jiu-jitsu stuff. But one thing they did that I remember is: They put on protective gear, got a pellet or paint gun (I forget which) and tried a bunch of gun disarms at real speed. Let’s just say it generally didn’t go well for the guy not holding the gun. The way I look at it is, he has to move his finger maybe a quarter of an inch to send a bullet at you at 1500 feet per second…meanwhile you have to go a long way to stop him. Bad odds, so if you’re going to try it, it’s only because all other options are gone…
We tested it with friends using an airsoft gun and the disarms worked well. It has to do more with reaction that "finger travel distance". It become quite easy actually if you can mentally distract the gunman first. Ask a question and the moment he begins to answer it you perform the disarm. Edit: Posted this before watching the clip, these disarm techniques are terrible, no wonder they didn't work lol. We used the military ones, they work well.
@@Ressuu i dont mean to be rude but where can i watch the military disarming technique ? i did some research ( mostly some search on youtube and google xD ) but couldnt seem to find one :((
I've done this dozens of times at my dojo. The attacker with the gun USUALLY loses. Sometimes the defender gets shot. This is only for the case where the attacker with the gun is stupid enough to move into range. If the gun attacker stays back 10' in a solid aimed stance then the defender has no chance. So gun disarm techniques can only work against a gun attacker who provides an opportunity for the disarm.
@@Zinras Because smart gun criminals stay back far enough that they can't be disarmed. Or start out by shooting. A gun disarm technique only becomes relevant if the gun attacker WANTS SOMETHING from the defender. Otherwise the gun attacker won't come close enough for a disarm to have any chance.
A lot of gun disarms also rely on peoples hesitation to shoot, which is how they can end up being actually more possible in real life if you have a concrete plan. If you are getting robbed by a gunman most of the time they are using the gun as an intimidation tool. (Though something like 20% of people who are robbed still get hurt even if they fully comply). If you can read the robbers intentions your odds go way up. That said I doubt you ever get much more than a 50% chance of success, and most of the other times you are getting hurt, even if it's just losing a finger and not your life.
Not what Icy Mike advocated. That was based on two assumptions: 1) Single-shot pistol 2) Perp shooting as soon as he notices you move. But props to him, he could've died at 8:43
absolutely, there is a huge reluctance factor, it's kind of noisy and draws attention too " If you can read the robbers intentions your odds go way up." yes, that's essentially the type of shit why you have hostage/suicide situation negotiators, if you can find a way to humanize them and have it get through them, they generally will become even more reluctant and you can stall that shit with some buttering up for a good couple of minutes lol ofcourse robbers could be more ruthless, being in a position of hostage or suicide and making a scene infers you WANT the attention, not all robbers do, they don't make their demands to the authorities if they can avoid it, their demands are who or whatever they're robbing lol, and some will just stone cold ice you then and there and get away quick if they have zero intent of drawing attention or negotiating and want to get out before the authorities get a whiff realistically they will just tail you, then match your walking tempo going just a bit over, stick the gun in your back, and ask you to follow them inside some alley where noone else is... either that, or they just happen to jump on the opportunity of finding you alone to mug you statistically, if you're getting mugged, there's a REAL high chance you're outnumbered ,and outgunned. plenty of people have been robbed by guys that didn't even have guns.. they just stuck some object in their backs as they shadowed them and tricked them into thinking they had a piece... not the best thing to try in the USA's 2A safe havens, especially don't try that shit in some corner store in brazil you'll get ventilated by the locals lol but around the world it has happened plenty a time, they jsut sneaked up their backs and the victim could never even see the gun, or the not-gun i could see how the efficacy is less on a robbery than a suicide or hostage situation, probably don't want to play chicken with that shit and ACT FAST
Honestly, this is one of the things about self-defense that we tend to kinda forget about. That element of surprise is pretty important for what works in self-defense. A lot of time when we practice an exercise since everyone knows what will happen, people will respond with that prior knowledge of what self-defense technique they will use. I call it the martial arts chess game. It's the dialogue of "If you do this I would just do this". When in reality the brain has to recalibrate after dealing with new information it wasn't prepared for. This MIGHT mean certain things that we commonly think are sketchy may be more effective. If you respond in a novel way before the attacker can understand what's going on it can give you an advantage.
Agree 100% it’s hard to test but a history of violence (military training) and a basic understanding of biomechanics combined with initiative (surprise)can save you.
I agree. Never had to defend myself against a weapon, that's a different story. But as a short woman, I have had to defend myself against a random man trying to grab me on 4 occasions. I never needed anything fancy. The basics were all I needed simply because none of them expected me to do anything. For example, a simple twist against the thumb whilst yanking my grabbed wrist towards me worked just fine. That would never work with another person who is a lot stronger and bigger than me, who's expecting it.
So I want to provide context for the victor Marx demo. Victor is a martial artist that mostly travels and talks to youth. He's a minister and that clip is part of a much longer video in which he pulls kids down and does a demo while also talking about life. It gets their attention. He does own a company that hires former vets and they actively help fight against human trafficking.
The Cognitive Friction concept is very interesting. Geoff Thomson, one of the UK foremost martial artists, used something very similar during a 10 year career working doors in Coventry. Basically, when he was facing someone who was aggressive and he knew he would have to fight anyway, Geoff would ask the guy a question. Geoff said it didn't matter if the guy had no intention of answering it; for a split-second, his mind would focus on the question. And that's when Geoff would hit him.
I love Geoff Thompson, one of the best. His seminars are also one the most expensive, but he thinks like a thug, and understands the thug mindset a lot of martial artists don't
It's also a fairly effective hypnotic induction technique: the brain can take a surprisingly long time to "WTF?" when you give it just the right kind of question, and fail to consciously process other things during that time. I'm not saying try to get the guy into trance and have him willingly give you his gun, wallet and car keys, then have him walk into the nearest police station naked and crying like a baby while he confesses every crime he's ever even thought about committing, but I'm not saying not to do that if you make it to Derren Brown mastery level. Nah, seriously; distract him with the weird question and follow it up just like it's the first jab in your longest and nastiest combo.
To be fair, the guys that are moving with the technique (particularly the Krav Maga disarm) are not really being struck (stunned) because they are practicing and therefore training in a way to avoid injuries. If the defender connects, it’s probably going to play out a little different.
when I did my advanced security training so I could carry cuffs my instructor was a retired RCMP officer who regularly travels to the US to perform de-escalation training there. he told us about a couple he knew in the states who both were sheriffs or something and taught the quick disarm BS. the husband went to use it in a real encounter and the wife got widowed.
@@SenseiWu12 I do itf and my club specifically practices more stuff than just taekwon do we do boxing drills kickboxing drills and sometimes we do throws and grappling
Good video! A couple points - work with weighted metal replicas (or real ones with the pins removed) instead of plastic if you can. Why? Those things are weighty, which means when you knock them or deflect them they have a fair bit more momentum and heft. From a jujutsu perspective gun defense is basically the same as knife or sword defense - get off the line of attack, and then do something. I have only seen one series of gun defenses that addressed the specific mechanics of the guns involved - that's from Vladimir Vasiliev (also the guy who had me train gun defense with weighted replicas) Also the wrist thing (kote gaeshi) is supposed to flip someone who knows they'll get their wrist injured and decides to dive. For the uninitiated it's just supposed to cause an injury. To that end if you want to practice kote gaeshi I recommend you keep your hands close to your body while the enemy's hands are kept far from theirs. That's what makes kote gaeshi effective - you have a mechanical advantage. If you both have hands extended, then it's a strength contest
i would suggest a GBB airsoft modified to be able to "fire" without BBs (can be done nondestuctive) . then you can also simulate pushing back the mantle so the gun wont work
Just to nitpick, kote in this context should be read as forearm. It's generically used for wrist in a lot of technique names, but what you want to do with the wrist is primarily to bend it, crank just enough to take all the slack out, and use the hand like a wrench to control the forearm as your structural control. Intentionally overdoing it (i.e. when you're not worried about breaking your uke and not getting to play with him anymore) should trash both the wrist and elbow, and possibly even the shoulder too if the elbow lasts long enough. With a lot of practice, you can get it to where it's a solid takedown against a lot of resistance without injury, and with surprisingly little discomfort. Against a lethal attack of any form, screw it; go for all the injury you can manage. That's the time to rip uke's arm off and beat him with it until he reconsiders all the life choices that led him to pull a gun on you.
hi my name is Yonatan and i have train in krav maga for about 7 years now. its kinda sad seeing all the ''fake'' krav maga school outside of the IKMF (he International Krav Maga Federation) guns knifes and rifles disarms are a really tough thing to do so in krav maga the the technique always changing until we will find the ultimate one. i hope you will learn more about it because its actually very interesting. sorry if my english is not very well but i dont think that you know how to speak in Hebrew. and great video BTW
Lots of comments here. I hope you read this one Seth. First, big fan! I watch all of your videos, although have only commented a couple time. Second, I do teach both knife and gun disarms. And the first thing I tell people is DON'T DO THIS UNLESS YOU HAVE TO! Your wallet and jewelry is not worth dying for. However, disarms can work. And even if you don't get a full disarm, you can still run a significantly good chance of surviving the encounter. I'm glad you and Mike mentioned getting off the center line. Because the most effective way to not get shot, is to not be in front of the barrel. Also, "talking your way to the gun" is something I also teach. Even getting your wallet out and trying to hand it to the bad guy can often be enough to gain an advantage. One thing I rarely try first is actually disarming the bad guy. As was pointed out in the video. It often times doesn't work. But controlling the muzzle of the pistol gives you not only a leverage advantage, but if you have stepped off the center and gaining control of the muzzle (slide) and usually one or both arms of the bad guy, and he does happen to get a stray shot off...it will not cycle and load another round. Now you have a dead pistol and you can proceed to fight over it. People also need to keep in mind that the bad guy has chosen you because for one reason or another, you came across as an easy target. Bad guys don't like to work. They want prey. And the bad guy isn't going to be a martial artist with significant fighting skills to fight you for the gun. They're going to be some Crack head and they, again, looking at you as prey, don't expect you to try to disarm them. Unlike in your video where everyone was expecting the disarm. Knowing it's coming was the biggest advantage everyone in your video had. Again. Disarms can a do work. If applied properly with the experience behind it. But one should really ask themselves if whatever the bad guy wants is worth potentially dying for. Because if you screw up, it could be the end. Good video!
People also seem to forget that even if the first shot misses, a gun going of next to or near your ear is gonna hurt your eardrums a lot. This will probably make your next move a bit harder to make.
One of the things to remember is that a semi auto pistol won't cycle if you hold the slide. So in most of your "failed" disarms, the gun would have fire at most, once. Try a few reps with an airsoft or paintball gun that cycles like a real gun.
Sensei Seth. I have watched your videos on and off for the past few years and I gotta say since now coming back… please keep doing what you’re doing because it genuinely is good content ❤ I enjoy hearing from both your experiences and theirs to better gather good feedback off your ideas. Just keep doing what you’re doing cause we’re loving it!! 🙌
I don't know if in a real life situation I could even attempt it, and I've been in one type, or another Martial arts since I was 9?? The only time I've ever seen someone shot in real life ....I was a late teen, and the shooter was about 10 feet from His target, and He didn't say much , or get closer...He just shot. I did nothing, but hit the ground, and I was about 40 feet away. Scary situation. Great Video 👍
When I was in training we talked about this plenty. And this was the exact consensus we came to. That this was an example of the best defense being don't put yourself in this situation and that the solutions while possible weren't great.
Way back I made a video for this that I never actually released. Mike is right where most people can initially redirect the gun without getting shot. We had like 90% success with this. Where people DO suck is not knowing how to properly grapple after the redirect because...well grappling is hard and doesn't look as cool. Edit: we tested with a CO2 airsoft gun so decently faster than a nerf gun.
I'd say if you're going to go for the slap, the next thing to do is run like hell. An average adult, from a dead stop to a sprint, can cover 15-20 meters in 2 seconds. Call it 50 feet. If you're fit, even more. In places you're likely to get robbed, odds are there's something you can put between yourself and the gunman. Even if there isn't, I don't know many people who can make an offhand shot with a handgun on a moving man sized target at 50 feet. Every half a second, you're gaining another 10 feet easily. Of course, you might be chased, but now the guy has to make an offhand shot while running while you're running. There might be a dozen people on the planet who can make those kinds of shots with any kind of consistency. If a shot already popped off, the gunman has made a scene and is likely to abort. You also have a small chance of a malfunction having occurred. Stick-up men aren't known for maintaining high quality firearms. Lastly, since you're the one in danger, 100% you want to run away far more than the gunman wants to catch you. And in those situations the average person will be absolutely amazed at how fast they can **actually** run. In my younger days I ran from the cops a couple times (just punk kid stuff, out late, trespassing) and there is no way I could move that fast by sheer will alone. You only get about a minute before all the emergency drugs your body keeps for special occasions wear out. The good news is your brain stem takes the wheel - it's not much for philosophical musings, but it is optimized over millions of years to keep you alive. The decisions you'll make in that minute are as automatic as breathing while you sleep. They don't even touch the language center - words are a bottleneck. You're running machine code straight from the BIOS, full admin permissions, hardware override, maximum overclock, voiding every warranty.
I teach martial arts and we do gun disarms as a small part of the curriculum. I actually teach some techniques that are similar to what's shown here. there is ALWAYS a huge caveat that the best thing to do is to deescalate the situation first (give them your phone / wallet, apologize, whatever). and there is always a follow on caveat that the only time you should even try a gun disarm is if you truly fear for your life or the life of anyone you're with; that is, you are probably going to get shot anyway or you're being kidnapped or whatever.
For the bad guys 1) Keep your distance. 2) Keep your weak hand and foot forward, stand at an angle. 3)Even better,keep your distance and 2 hands on your gun . No one will disarm you, ever. Not Krav, not Combatives, not Bjj. Hard to Hurt said it well.
Yes. True. I've trained and taught gun disarm techniques for 30+ years. Sometimes I'll take a distance and stance such that it's impossible to even attempt a disarm. Sometimes I'll then move closer and give them a momentary opportunity. Defenders must be able to choose the right moment to act.
Nice honest video - The idea that there is some simple to learn trick that will guarantee you can take the gun away from the 'bad guy' is just crazy stupid. If the attacker wants 'stuff' give them stuff. Only if you are fairly certain that you are going to get shot anyway, should you try a disarm. Also remember our dear old friend adrenaline surge - yes you may be quicker because of it but you will not be able to do anything subtle. OK - there is a caveat to that which is people who have trained A LOT with simulated pressure MAY have less of an adrenal response than 'Mr Average' who has watched a RUclips video (or two) but not done anything else. Personally, having done a lot of training and practised (and taught) gun disarms, my considered opinion is that they are great fun to do in the 'dojo', but I hope to goodness that I never face a gun in the real world !!!
Best gun defense seminar I ever attended was run by this old New Yorker who said much the same thing as Mike. "Hell yeah, most of you can move the gun but you'll probably get shot on the disarm." What I respected about this guy was he straight up said "not sure if this works, but here's what I would do based on my history" (talks about military and police work). Transparency goes a long way. I thought about that applied to other weapons disarms/techniques and general martial arts and I learned something pretty valuable that's stuck with me.... only the Sith deal in absolutes.
"Possible"? Yeah "Probable"? Nah I mean, it HAS happened before, but it's the equivalent of trying to kill an enemy soldier with a ballpoint pen. You're only in that position because ALL the better options have failed or are unavailable. And your chance of success is only marginally better than zero. Worth a shot if it's either that, or death. But as a first line option? 😂 no
I think this is absolutely spot on. With decent training, most people could easily make the 1st shot miss. The scary part is what comes after… what if the guy backs up realigns, and starts firing like a madman? Are you going to be fast enough and deceptive enough to slap the gun out of your area and take him down to the ground while keeping the weapon out of harm’s way? Also, let’s say your armed with a knife, can you inflict damage upon him quick enough once you’re on the ground to keep him from firing the gun? I wouldn’t do this unless my life absolutely depended on it. If it was money, wallet, car etc… forget it.
That’s exactly the point when most schools teach this stuff. Unless they want to take you (or someone you love) somewhere at gunpoint, DO NOT ATTEMPT A DISARM. I’d rather cancel my stolen credit cards than cancel my life.
Love the shout out to WPS. Lovel is amazing, Craig Douglas is the absolute man in this sphere. His series on the realities of criminal assault on the WPSN is absolute money.
This one was so entertaining 🤣 something I wanted to point out though is that at 7:39, when you pushed the gun out of the way, your thumb was practically IN the barrel and it would be back if they fired a second shot with your thumb there lol Love it. Please don't stop making these videos. Best martial arts channel on youtube for sure.
You should try coming from below, ducking your head briefly to get your head out of line of the gun, while pushing the gun up, grabbing the gun and twisting it back (vertically, not sideways) towards their head. It's surprisingly effective........ in training. Can't say I've ever done it in real life though. Also, if you were in a building with floors above you, the gun is likely to go off while you're doing this, potentially hitting someone on a floor above. Also, this is specifically for a gun aimed at your head at close range. As others (and our instructor) pointed out, this is an absolute last resort, where you expect to be shot if you don't get the gun. He always told us to run from combat if possible, especially from knives, and for a gun you should just give them your money and hope they aren't kidnapping/shooting you (and only then try to get the gun).
1) My sensei have always repeated that any weapon disarm is the LAST thing in your arsenal. 2) No amount of training can make you sure to get out on a confrontation with a armed opponent.
Whenever we do this sort of stuff at krav, our instructor generally tells us that if they're just asking for money, just give them the money. It's only when you don't have any other options you should even attempt this sort of stuff, and even then you're pretty likely to end up getting shot if the gunman is even a little bit out of range.
I used to teach a lot of gun grabbing techniques until about 12 years ago when I went out to a range and tried to grab around a gun and hold on while I fired it. Grabbing and holding onto a semi-automatic is doable but a revolver is not. If you grab onto a revolver and it fires the percussion, the hot gas, and the unburned gunpowder will go right into the palm of your hand and you won't be able to hold onto it. You could even sustain a debilitating injury to your hand or lose a part of your finger. Since I don't like the idea of having one set of techniques for semi-automatics and another for revolvers, I stopped teaching grabbing onto the gun altogether.
did a a fair bit of aikido to supplement my striking skills, based on a teenage adoration of Nico/Above the Law. there was that scene in a bar where he wrist locks a guy aiming a gun at him. i thought it was so cool. my best mate, with no martial arts experience said "lucky the gun didn't off and he didn't have any mates behind him".
One thing to take into consideration is the reason and intention the gun is pointed at you. More often than not, if a gun is in close range (close enough to reach), the intention is not to fire it because it is used only as a threat for robbery or something else. He doesn't want to shoot you, because he could have done it while he was far away from you. If a person wants to kill you, there is no "Give me your wallet..." conversation. He will just shoot you without talking to you. And in most cases you won't even see the firearm. Disarming will be nearly impossible if that is the case. If the gun is used only as a threat or warning, the best advice is not to attempt to disarm him. That will escalate the situation from "him threatening you" to "him intending to not getting disarmed, and possibly shooting you". ... On a different note: Awesome stuff Seth! It's fun to see you testing theories. Keep it up!
As someone who got robbed 3 times at gunpoint, loosing the wallet and or the phone was a better strategy. I remember a really honest Krav Maga instructor back in Rio de Janeiro that point that out a lot "If the he just wan't to rob you, give what he wants, this kind of defense is for life threatning situations, executions, rape, not fear of losing the cellphone".
One point I'd add for consideration- a guy like Richard Marx has practiced this a few thousand times to train his reflexes for maximum effectiveness. Even with boxing, a beginner has to learn proper body position, alignment, kinetic linking... to develop a good punch. I think that could make a big difference in how well these 'work'
There's been an influx of bots trying to scam your subscribers lately pretending to be you. Great content as always mate, might want to warn your viewers though that such scams are happening ✌️
I did not see you try what we used to practice for this. Back about 4 decades ago, my friends and I who were into martial arts, sword fighting, the Society of Creative Anachronism, shooting guns, and generally doing lots of crazy physical things... we practiced the situation of having someone with a gun on you where you thought they were going to shoot you, but they had not shot you yet, thus you needed to take action before they did. The requirement for being able to do this is that the person has to be close with the gun forward and not already shooting. Who decides to act first has a huge benefit in such close quarters, because that delay in response time is what you have to prevent the gun from going off. The move is to grab the gun and gun hand where the hammer is and move the aim of the gun in one direction while shifting your body in the other, so that if the gun does go off, it misses you. If you can get hold of where the hammer is, you can prevent the gun from firing. The second immediate part of this is to get your second hand on the gun and gun hand, to make it two hands against one, while moving your body to try and keep them from getting two hands on the gun, if they did not already have two hands on it, begin kicking them, and now you have a close combat situation where neither person can afford to let go of the gun while the gun will not fire. If you can't prevent the gun from firing, then you need to prevent it from pointing at you or reloading. If the gun is a semi-auto and you can keep the slide pulled back then it is not reloading. Now, this is not an automatic win, but when we practiced this, we could regularly, most of the time, prevent the hammer of the gun from being able to fall and thus turning it into a close combat contest. Whoever then won that contest over control of the gun would win. Not something to try in real life unless you expect they are going to shoot you no matter what, they just haven't done it yet. If giving them your wallet is all they want, better to just give them your wallet.
I know a guy in Sac who did the Mike move (on reflex). He still has the bullet in his arm, you can see it clearly when he flexes the right way. He wasn't trying anything fancy. The thief pulled the gun behind him, he saw something out of the corner of his eye and instinct took over.
Kudos for trying these live. One problem with this testing strategy, however, is that the one playing shooter is expecting it. No martial arts technique works if the one on whom it's being tried is expecting it. Then of course there's the fact that a gun disarm is a last resort. I think 9 times out of 10, you'll end up getting shot in the face. But if you're for sure going to get shot anyway, why not take that 10% chance for success? Great video!
Every professional martial artist I know has told me the best way to disarm someone with a deadly weapon is to prevent a fight from happening. Even with a knife, you either comply with their demands (if it's a robbery for instance) or run if you can do so safely. Even Bruce Lee have told you to kick them in the nuts and flee. My boxing coach for instance, who is trained in a few styles, and one of the toughest most capable fighters I've ever seen, a guy who has literally fought off groups of unarmed people single handlely in real life altercations, told me he basically shit his pants the couple of times he's had a gun pulled on him. He did whatever he could to deescalate the situation and not try to be badass. Like a lot of misconceptions about fighting, things like this only work in controlled or specific situations, but don't translate to reality. Being able to consistently successfully out martial art someone with a gun is a movie myth that should only be attempted if you literally have no other choice.
You should try/making work Jiu Jitsu (Japanese), Lethwei, Bartitsu, Krav Maga, Filipino Martial Arts, Chuk Kuk Do (Chuck Norris), Keysi, Kickboxing and Luta Livre !!! 🙏🏼🙌🏼 Love those videos!!!
Every sensei/teacher I've ever had has always said, "If you fight a guy with a knife, you're going to get cut. End of story." I can't imagine it's any better with a gun.
A fried of mine tried this a few yeas ago using a low power airsoft pistol. He did the krav mags disarm and I did the same but with added ju jutsu. If you don't move your body at the saw time as the gun, you'll get shot every time. If you do move your body, you've got a chance. BUT only if the gun is very close. Otherwise, you're dead. Having a mock gun that fires safe projectiles really shows up the difficulties. At least that's what we found.
My experience with firearm disarms is that it is a multi-part process, just like say.. an arm bar. Or a wrestling duck under. You don't just slap. You also move to a position of advantage. Against a pistol, my aim point is the hand/rear of the pistol. And it's a slap-grab motion while I am off centering and closing in, preferably to their outside gate. I prefer the rear because it's easier to jam the hammer or grip the cylinder on a revolver. Or jam the slide on a semi auto. At which point, the pistol is a piece of metal. Let the other person focus on that while you do other things. Another thing is that the grab disarm isn't an arm movement. It's a whole body movement like trying to start a stubborn pull start lawn mower. A great video!
Some absolute amateur friends and I tried this. We found what you found, there just ain't no magic way even though it did sometimes work. We also found that it's even harder when the robber uses the gangsta sideways grip.
Damn the ringtone at 3:49 to 3:50 scared the shit out of me. I have the same one and I thought I didn't have a phone until I realized I was watching this video with it
Seth i love your videos! We do a gun disarm in a self defense class that similar to one that you showed except it's backwards . . . Instead of slapping the inside of the wrist and the barrel so that the wrist bends the way it's designed to do you slap the outside of the wrist and grab the gun barrel twisting it to the outside of the arm not the inside. This could cause your finger to break if it's in the trigger guard so be careful if you try it. However this is not a cure all answer. It only works some of the time. We've practiced with air soft guns and getting shot in the face hurts! lol However we're taught a lot of the tings Icy Mike talked about. Talk to your attacker, ask them questions, and then attempt to take the gun while they're answering you because then they might be distracted from shooting you. Notice i said MIGHT. Changing the direction you twist the gun, talking to the attacker, and practicing can help improve your odds, but they still aren't very good odds. "Best thing is always to run if can, shoot them if you can't run (and have a gun), or final option use martial arts." Quote by my Martial Arts instructor.
I'm a martial arts instructor who has been practicing and teaching handgun disarm techniques for 30+ years. Of the thousands of total practice sessions we've done a few dozen sessions using an Airsoft handgun. The attacker with the gun might have several motivations, ranging from robbery to kidnapping. Success rate against the attacker (not getting shot and disarming successfully) usually ranges from 60% to 80%. That's a 20% to 40% failure even for experienced instructors. We teach that gun disarms are a desperation move. Only do them if you're pretty certain you're otherwise going to be killed. This includes usually trying a gun disarm rather than getting into a car with the perp, per FBI survival rate data. My favorite teaching technique with handguns is when I'm the attacker. Sometimes I'll point the gun and say, "Just give me your keys and wallet and no one gets hurt". I'll also usually stay at a range and angle such that the disarm technique will probably fail. If the defender attempts the gun disarm in this situation it's an automatic FAIL. In this scenario SUCCESS occurs when the defender drops imaginary keys and wallet and walks away. It's not worth the risk of trying a gun disarm unless one's life is at stake.
So... based on having started Karate at age six and having about 30 years in now, taking into account gaps in training to reach my 40s... the problem with all of these gun disarms is the same as most knife defences if not most general self defence advice. They all tend to rely on getting "The Grip". Hit that spot on the wrist first try, and sure, the gun's gone flying and the guy's eating sidewalk. But actually getting The Grip even in the dojo takes years of practice and even then is in no way guaranteed to happen in a real fight. I'm sure all the Old School know what I mean by "The Grip"... but you've got to be so fast against a gun, and if the other guy's done weapon retention... no "easy" disarm is going to work as planned, you're gonna have to fight for it. Great advice from Icy Mike, distract to close enough distance to deflect the weapon, most people can do that most times at close range. Then attack the guy, don't get fixated on the disarm. Same as applies to any other weapon, get past the offensive line and tackle the guy before he can reset his defence. There are ways to train this, but there's no "just do this" trick to make it easy.
If the gun is pointed at your head, use your hand on the side of the gun-holding hand to deflect it to that side. At the same time move your head about a foot to the other side to get it out of line with the barrel. You will not have hold of the gun, but your assailant will not be expecting your other arm to come up and slash him across the throat. This only works close up, of course.
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What we've learned is that you cannot rob Mike while he is eating pizza.
Everyone will be robbed of everything by 2040.
He was TMNT guru soo no suprise: p
me so hungry
New video idea... "What food can Icy Mike be robbed while eating" ... Seth attempts to rob Mike while Mike tries different street food
What sicko would rob a man while he's enjoying a slice? Is there no honor among thieves?
Realistically, someone should only attempt to take the gun from someone if they are sure there's no getting out alive anyway. One thing that wasn't shown in the testing with the fake guns, is that if you grab the gun to get off the x for that first shot, your grab may stop another round from being chambered which gives you a huge chance of getting away.
On the other hand (no pun intended), Seth's grabbing for the gun often ending up with fingers in front of the muzzle show that grabbing the gun probably isn't a good idea.
@@OptimusSledge It's not a good idea at all, which is why I prefaced by saying it should only be done if you're sure they're going to shoot you. Better to risk being shot in the fingers than in the face.
@@bjt-lz1jl Better to slap the gun aside, then make a grab for their arm. Not that I'm any sort of expert on this, just going off what I can see.
The question is, when do you ever know you can get out alive? If they are crazy enough to pull a gun on you, probably crazy enough to shot you with out much reason.
@@OptimusSledge would you rather get shot in the hand or be dead?
"grabbing the gun isn't a good idea."
If you're not willing to get shot then don't attempt a gun disarm. Try and get shot in a non-vital area, and exactly as op says, try to attempt to stop another round from chambering, and stopping the hammer and/or trying to mag release (though that isn't likely).
It's like saying "I want to be able to fight well enough to win any fight... without any risk of getting hit/hurt" it's possible but not likely. Plan to get hit. Plan to get shot.
The style I was trained in had techniques for disarming guns, and my instructor refused to teach them because he didn't want anyone to think they could fight someone with a gun.
icy mike casually eating while deflecting sensei seth's gun is hilarious
Mike is developing his metaphysical combat skills.
He's going full Dillman.
Never go full Dillman!
Working them big toes like a true Dillman!
PLUS, make sure the gun holder is not moving his toes and tongue.
@@baldieman64 nice
No its not full Dillman because he didnt attempt to make bullets "Disappear"
Why does no one do these disarms with a nerf/pellet gun while wearing safety goggles to see if you get shot?
Edit: Sensei Seth did exactly that. Respect
Well, a nerf/water gun is probably the safest method. BBs and pellets can break skin and cause serious injury, so you can't really use them casually. And it why and airsoft and paintball leagues use body shields and helmets.
We've done exactly this for dozens of sessions at my pentjak silat dojo. The disarm techniques typically work 60% to 80% of the time. When it fails the defender generally gets shot. So people do sometimes practice exactly as you suggest.
@@fireeaglefitnessmartialart935 Yes, we usually use a nerf gun.
Why don’t they do it with a real gun?
I really respect the ending there, where you say "I don't know". The honest truth is, many martial art instructors out there don't know either. But instead of saying or even realizing that, they delude themselves and others by insisting that they do, and worse yet, present solutions rarely ever works.
You are being vague and dont have anyone in particular as an example. Here let me use your style but more accurately. Pretty much all instructors say not to attempt it unless you have no choice and that it probably wont work but they teach you techniques that may work, especially if you train them. You wouldn't look at a single ju jitzu video for example and then think you can pull those techniques off on anyone without practicing them.
I've taught martial arts gun disarm techniques for 30+ years. We've done extensive testing with airsoft handguns. Summary: we find the gun disarm techniques we teach succeed roughly 60% to 80% of the time. That's 20% to 40% chance of swift death, which is bad odds, so only try such techniques in a desperate situation.
But most techniques fail more often than not. Watch any sport fighting match and you will likely see dozens if not hundreds of techniques that have little or no effect. If you understand the mechanics of popping a weapon out of someone's grip it is actually very easy if you train it. People seem to expect a guarantee that they wont get hurt while trying to disarm somebody but of course that is a ridiculous expectation to have.
If it didn't have any positive effects, I don't think the military would waste time teaching it...
@@seric4546 there aren’t match with disarm guns,the street is another thing
Another point ALL these "gun disarms" don't consider: A gun with live ammo moves violently when going off. Slides move, cylinders rotate, gasses violently expel out. Depending on the size of the gun, and caliber of the ammo; you could easily cut, pinch, or blast off your finders holding it wrong. Guns have grips and handles for a reason.
Professionals that know what the heck they are teaching.. know all of this, and in fact, teach all of these things.
and the gas plume can do almost as much damage as the bullet in some cases (like point blank range) so even if they don't hit you, they can still severely injure you just by firing anywhere remotely close to you
That's what I was wondering, simple physics seems to suggest to me, that holding onto a gun that is firing would be pretty bloody difficult and even if successful would likely result in quite bad injury, that would likely make it impossible to keep holding on to it. Of course, if there is no other option, then you might as well try, but I worry about the number of people who are overly confident due to many of the terrible videos out there.
@@sadtosuccess
Funnily enough holding onto it isnt that hard when you talk about the simple force of a 9mmbullet. We tried that and it´s possible when you arent hit by any hot gas. The force itself is less than a punch after all. So if you can stop a punch you can stop the gun and the slider. The additional arm movement the guy is gonna make when you try to grab his gun on the other hand...
That's interesting. I never though of that. I saw a video years ago where a gun guy talked about why you never hold a revolver by the cylinder.
His reasoning was that a lot of gasses escape through the side of the cylinder, and it can hurt you. Plus if the cylinder isnt aligned right you'll get bits of metal coming out the sides.
I don't know how this translates to semi autos and clip-fed guns, but it's gotta be a comparable amount of energy so I assume in the wrong instance it could hurt you.
Mike just casually eating pizza while deflecting shots is great.
mike casually eating that pizza as he slaps the nerf gun away to prove his point :')
he didn't give away shit until he acted, very good sleight of mind stuff to mask your priming.
The pizza was a vital part of his strategy.
Years ago a couple of guys - their names were Bob Taylor and Randy Warner - put out a video series on self-defense. Parts of their videos occasionally show up on RUclips with people poking fun at their (standing) 1990s jiu-jitsu stuff. But one thing they did that I remember is: They put on protective gear, got a pellet or paint gun (I forget which) and tried a bunch of gun disarms at real speed. Let’s just say it generally didn’t go well for the guy not holding the gun. The way I look at it is, he has to move his finger maybe a quarter of an inch to send a bullet at you at 1500 feet per second…meanwhile you have to go a long way to stop him. Bad odds, so if you’re going to try it, it’s only because all other options are gone…
We tested it with friends using an airsoft gun and the disarms worked well. It has to do more with reaction that "finger travel distance". It become quite easy actually if you can mentally distract the gunman first. Ask a question and the moment he begins to answer it you perform the disarm. Edit: Posted this before watching the clip, these disarm techniques are terrible, no wonder they didn't work lol. We used the military ones, they work well.
@@Ressuu i dont mean to be rude but where can i watch the military disarming technique ? i did some research ( mostly some search on youtube and google xD ) but couldnt seem to find one :((
@@Ressuu Why do gun crimes even exist if it was that easy?
I've done this dozens of times at my dojo. The attacker with the gun USUALLY loses. Sometimes the defender gets shot. This is only for the case where the attacker with the gun is stupid enough to move into range. If the gun attacker stays back 10' in a solid aimed stance then the defender has no chance. So gun disarm techniques can only work against a gun attacker who provides an opportunity for the disarm.
@@Zinras Because smart gun criminals stay back far enough that they can't be disarmed. Or start out by shooting.
A gun disarm technique only becomes relevant if the gun attacker WANTS SOMETHING from the defender. Otherwise the gun attacker won't come close enough for a disarm to have any chance.
A lot of gun disarms also rely on peoples hesitation to shoot, which is how they can end up being actually more possible in real life if you have a concrete plan. If you are getting robbed by a gunman most of the time they are using the gun as an intimidation tool. (Though something like 20% of people who are robbed still get hurt even if they fully comply). If you can read the robbers intentions your odds go way up. That said I doubt you ever get much more than a 50% chance of success, and most of the other times you are getting hurt, even if it's just losing a finger and not your life.
Not what Icy Mike advocated. That was based on two assumptions: 1) Single-shot pistol 2) Perp shooting as soon as he notices you move. But props to him, he could've died at 8:43
absolutely, there is a huge reluctance factor, it's kind of noisy and draws attention too
" If you can read the robbers intentions your odds go way up."
yes, that's essentially the type of shit why you have hostage/suicide situation negotiators,
if you can find a way to humanize them and have it get through them, they generally will become even more reluctant and you can stall that shit with some buttering up for a good couple of minutes lol
ofcourse robbers could be more ruthless, being in a position of hostage or suicide and making a scene infers you WANT the attention, not all robbers do, they don't make their demands to the authorities if they can avoid it, their demands are who or whatever they're robbing lol, and some will just stone cold ice you then and there and get away quick if they have zero intent of drawing attention or negotiating and want to get out before the authorities get a whiff
realistically they will just tail you, then match your walking tempo going just a bit over, stick the gun in your back, and ask you to follow them inside some alley where noone else is... either that, or they just happen to jump on the opportunity of finding you alone to mug you
statistically, if you're getting mugged, there's a REAL high chance you're outnumbered ,and outgunned.
plenty of people have been robbed by guys that didn't even have guns.. they just stuck some object in their backs as they shadowed them and tricked them into thinking they had a piece... not the best thing to try in the USA's 2A safe havens, especially don't try that shit in some corner store in brazil you'll get ventilated by the locals lol
but around the world it has happened plenty a time, they jsut sneaked up their backs and the victim could never even see the gun, or the not-gun
i could see how the efficacy is less on a robbery than a suicide or hostage situation, probably don't want to play chicken with that shit and ACT FAST
Easily the best part of the video was the montage of Mike eating a pizza and slapping the gun away like a master.
Honestly, this is one of the things about self-defense that we tend to kinda forget about. That element of surprise is pretty important for what works in self-defense. A lot of time when we practice an exercise since everyone knows what will happen, people will respond with that prior knowledge of what self-defense technique they will use. I call it the martial arts chess game. It's the dialogue of "If you do this I would just do this". When in reality the brain has to recalibrate after dealing with new information it wasn't prepared for. This MIGHT mean certain things that we commonly think are sketchy may be more effective. If you respond in a novel way before the attacker can understand what's going on it can give you an advantage.
Agree 100% it’s hard to test but a history of violence (military training) and a basic understanding of biomechanics combined with initiative (surprise)can save you.
In summary, discombobulate.
I agree. Never had to defend myself against a weapon, that's a different story. But as a short woman, I have had to defend myself against a random man trying to grab me on 4 occasions. I never needed anything fancy. The basics were all I needed simply because none of them expected me to do anything. For example, a simple twist against the thumb whilst yanking my grabbed wrist towards me worked just fine. That would never work with another person who is a lot stronger and bigger than me, who's expecting it.
There’s a reason thieves don’t usually target large adult men, even with a gun. Because they aren’t looking for a fight, just an easy score.
So I want to provide context for the victor Marx demo. Victor is a martial artist that mostly travels and talks to youth. He's a minister and that clip is part of a much longer video in which he pulls kids down and does a demo while also talking about life. It gets their attention. He does own a company that hires former vets and they actively help fight against human trafficking.
He's actually also a former marine.
@@Haad-Shaheer that as well
Mike repeatedly deflecting your gun while continuing to eat a piece of pizza is one of the funniest things I've seen in a very long while!!😂🤣😂
The Cognitive Friction concept is very interesting. Geoff Thomson, one of the UK foremost martial artists, used something very similar during a 10 year career working doors in Coventry. Basically, when he was facing someone who was aggressive and he knew he would have to fight anyway, Geoff would ask the guy a question. Geoff said it didn't matter if the guy had no intention of answering it; for a split-second, his mind would focus on the question. And that's when Geoff would hit him.
"But who did he tell you that to?"
I love Geoff Thompson, one of the best. His seminars are also one the most expensive, but he thinks like a thug, and understands the thug mindset a lot of martial artists don't
It's also a fairly effective hypnotic induction technique: the brain can take a surprisingly long time to "WTF?" when you give it just the right kind of question, and fail to consciously process other things during that time.
I'm not saying try to get the guy into trance and have him willingly give you his gun, wallet and car keys, then have him walk into the nearest police station naked and crying like a baby while he confesses every crime he's ever even thought about committing, but I'm not saying not to do that if you make it to Derren Brown mastery level.
Nah, seriously; distract him with the weird question and follow it up just like it's the first jab in your longest and nastiest combo.
To be fair, the guys that are moving with the technique (particularly the Krav Maga disarm) are not really being struck (stunned) because they are practicing and therefore training in a way to avoid injuries. If the defender connects, it’s probably going to play out a little different.
Icy Mike is so hard 2 hurt because he fights you in the physical plane and the metaphysical plane
Mike and Seth are such a Power Couple 💑!
Mike and that pizza, more so
when I did my advanced security training so I could carry cuffs my instructor was a retired RCMP officer who regularly travels to the US to perform de-escalation training there. he told us about a couple he knew in the states who both were sheriffs or something and taught the quick disarm BS. the husband went to use it in a real encounter and the wife got widowed.
My taekwon do club was just doing these yesterday and it thought the were probably bullshit
⚠️Don’t trust taekwondo for self defence ⚠️
@@SenseiWu12 I do itf and my club specifically practices more stuff than just taekwon do we do boxing drills kickboxing drills and sometimes we do throws and grappling
@@Korrupt27 that ain’t taekwondo anymore then.
@@Korrupt27 more like haploid or mma
Good video!
A couple points - work with weighted metal replicas (or real ones with the pins removed) instead of plastic if you can. Why? Those things are weighty, which means when you knock them or deflect them they have a fair bit more momentum and heft.
From a jujutsu perspective gun defense is basically the same as knife or sword defense - get off the line of attack, and then do something.
I have only seen one series of gun defenses that addressed the specific mechanics of the guns involved - that's from Vladimir Vasiliev (also the guy who had me train gun defense with weighted replicas)
Also the wrist thing (kote gaeshi) is supposed to flip someone who knows they'll get their wrist injured and decides to dive. For the uninitiated it's just supposed to cause an injury. To that end if you want to practice kote gaeshi I recommend you keep your hands close to your body while the enemy's hands are kept far from theirs. That's what makes kote gaeshi effective - you have a mechanical advantage. If you both have hands extended, then it's a strength contest
i would suggest a GBB airsoft modified to be able to "fire" without BBs (can be done nondestuctive) . then you can also simulate pushing back the mantle so the gun wont work
Just to nitpick, kote in this context should be read as forearm. It's generically used for wrist in a lot of technique names, but what you want to do with the wrist is primarily to bend it, crank just enough to take all the slack out, and use the hand like a wrench to control the forearm as your structural control. Intentionally overdoing it (i.e. when you're not worried about breaking your uke and not getting to play with him anymore) should trash both the wrist and elbow, and possibly even the shoulder too if the elbow lasts long enough.
With a lot of practice, you can get it to where it's a solid takedown against a lot of resistance without injury, and with surprisingly little discomfort. Against a lethal attack of any form, screw it; go for all the injury you can manage. That's the time to rip uke's arm off and beat him with it until he reconsiders all the life choices that led him to pull a gun on you.
hi my name is Yonatan and i have train in krav maga for about 7 years now. its kinda sad seeing all the ''fake'' krav maga school outside of the IKMF (he International Krav Maga Federation) guns knifes and rifles disarms are a really tough thing to do so in krav maga the the technique always changing until we will find the ultimate one. i hope you will learn more about it because its actually very interesting. sorry if my english is not very well but i dont think that you know how to speak in Hebrew. and great video BTW
Lots of comments here. I hope you read this one Seth. First, big fan! I watch all of your videos, although have only commented a couple time.
Second, I do teach both knife and gun disarms. And the first thing I tell people is DON'T DO THIS UNLESS YOU HAVE TO! Your wallet and jewelry is not worth dying for. However, disarms can work. And even if you don't get a full disarm, you can still run a significantly good chance of surviving the encounter.
I'm glad you and Mike mentioned getting off the center line. Because the most effective way to not get shot, is to not be in front of the barrel.
Also, "talking your way to the gun" is something I also teach. Even getting your wallet out and trying to hand it to the bad guy can often be enough to gain an advantage.
One thing I rarely try first is actually disarming the bad guy. As was pointed out in the video. It often times doesn't work. But controlling the muzzle of the pistol gives you not only a leverage advantage, but if you have stepped off the center and gaining control of the muzzle (slide) and usually one or both arms of the bad guy, and he does happen to get a stray shot off...it will not cycle and load another round. Now you have a dead pistol and you can proceed to fight over it.
People also need to keep in mind that the bad guy has chosen you because for one reason or another, you came across as an easy target. Bad guys don't like to work. They want prey. And the bad guy isn't going to be a martial artist with significant fighting skills to fight you for the gun. They're going to be some Crack head and they, again, looking at you as prey, don't expect you to try to disarm them. Unlike in your video where everyone was expecting the disarm. Knowing it's coming was the biggest advantage everyone in your video had.
Again. Disarms can a do work. If applied properly with the experience behind it. But one should really ask themselves if whatever the bad guy wants is worth potentially dying for. Because if you screw up, it could be the end.
Good video!
I love how Mike is just casually eating a piece of pizza while knocking a threat off center line! LMFAO. God bless y’all.!
People also seem to forget that even if the first shot misses, a gun going of next to or near your ear is gonna hurt your eardrums a lot. This will probably make your next move a bit harder to make.
4:57 The ultra powerful grandma slaps when she catches you teasing her declawed cat.
I love you two together! one it's comical and two, you always learn something.
Sensei please go to Detroit and visit D.U.S.T!!!
It has been proven several times they're a joke
One of the things to remember is that a semi auto pistol won't cycle if you hold the slide. So in most of your "failed" disarms, the gun would have fire at most, once. Try a few reps with an airsoft or paintball gun that cycles like a real gun.
Sensei Seth. I have watched your videos on and off for the past few years and I gotta say since now coming back… please keep doing what you’re doing because it genuinely is good content ❤ I enjoy hearing from both your experiences and theirs to better gather good feedback off your ideas. Just keep doing what you’re doing cause we’re loving it!! 🙌
I don't know if in a real life situation I could even attempt it, and I've been in one type, or another Martial arts since I was 9??
The only time I've ever seen someone shot in real life ....I was a late teen, and the shooter was about 10 feet from His target, and He didn't say much , or get closer...He just shot. I did nothing, but hit the ground, and I was about 40 feet away. Scary situation. Great Video 👍
Great video. I just laughed a ton at Icy Mike eating pizza.
I just love your videos. I saw it was your video and I didn't even read the title I just clicked on it. I was not disappointed.
When I was in training we talked about this plenty. And this was the exact consensus we came to. That this was an example of the best defense being don't put yourself in this situation and that the solutions while possible weren't great.
Way back I made a video for this that I never actually released. Mike is right where most people can initially redirect the gun without getting shot. We had like 90% success with this. Where people DO suck is not knowing how to properly grapple after the redirect because...well grappling is hard and doesn't look as cool.
Edit: we tested with a CO2 airsoft gun so decently faster than a nerf gun.
I'd say if you're going to go for the slap, the next thing to do is run like hell. An average adult, from a dead stop to a sprint, can cover 15-20 meters in 2 seconds. Call it 50 feet. If you're fit, even more. In places you're likely to get robbed, odds are there's something you can put between yourself and the gunman. Even if there isn't, I don't know many people who can make an offhand shot with a handgun on a moving man sized target at 50 feet. Every half a second, you're gaining another 10 feet easily.
Of course, you might be chased, but now the guy has to make an offhand shot while running while you're running. There might be a dozen people on the planet who can make those kinds of shots with any kind of consistency.
If a shot already popped off, the gunman has made a scene and is likely to abort. You also have a small chance of a malfunction having occurred. Stick-up men aren't known for maintaining high quality firearms.
Lastly, since you're the one in danger, 100% you want to run away far more than the gunman wants to catch you. And in those situations the average person will be absolutely amazed at how fast they can **actually** run.
In my younger days I ran from the cops a couple times (just punk kid stuff, out late, trespassing) and there is no way I could move that fast by sheer will alone.
You only get about a minute before all the emergency drugs your body keeps for special occasions wear out. The good news is your brain stem takes the wheel - it's not much for philosophical musings, but it is optimized over millions of years to keep you alive. The decisions you'll make in that minute are as automatic as breathing while you sleep. They don't even touch the language center - words are a bottleneck. You're running machine code straight from the BIOS, full admin permissions, hardware override, maximum overclock, voiding every warranty.
I teach martial arts and we do gun disarms as a small part of the curriculum. I actually teach some techniques that are similar to what's shown here. there is ALWAYS a huge caveat that the best thing to do is to deescalate the situation first (give them your phone / wallet, apologize, whatever).
and there is always a follow on caveat that the only time you should even try a gun disarm is if you truly fear for your life or the life of anyone you're with; that is, you are probably going to get shot anyway or you're being kidnapped or whatever.
This was awesome
Thanks guys
I wasn't ready for the video to end
For the bad guys 1) Keep your distance. 2) Keep your weak hand and foot forward, stand at an angle. 3)Even better,keep your distance and 2 hands on your gun . No one will disarm you, ever. Not Krav, not Combatives, not Bjj. Hard to Hurt said it well.
Yes. True. I've trained and taught gun disarm techniques for 30+ years. Sometimes I'll take a distance and stance such that it's impossible to even attempt a disarm. Sometimes I'll then move closer and give them a momentary opportunity. Defenders must be able to choose the right moment to act.
@mordi2537
.......Except the Ballerinas!
The Ballerinas will Beat The SHIT OUTTA YOU!!!!
Nice honest video - The idea that there is some simple to learn trick that will guarantee you can take the gun away from the 'bad guy' is just crazy stupid.
If the attacker wants 'stuff' give them stuff. Only if you are fairly certain that you are going to get shot anyway, should you try a disarm.
Also remember our dear old friend adrenaline surge - yes you may be quicker because of it but you will not be able to do anything subtle. OK - there is a caveat to that which is people who have trained A LOT with simulated pressure MAY have less of an adrenal response than 'Mr Average' who has watched a RUclips video (or two) but not done anything else.
Personally, having done a lot of training and practised (and taught) gun disarms, my considered opinion is that they are great fun to do in the 'dojo', but I hope to goodness that I never face a gun in the real world !!!
Best gun defense seminar I ever attended was run by this old New Yorker who said much the same thing as Mike. "Hell yeah, most of you can move the gun but you'll probably get shot on the disarm." What I respected about this guy was he straight up said "not sure if this works, but here's what I would do based on my history" (talks about military and police work). Transparency goes a long way. I thought about that applied to other weapons disarms/techniques and general martial arts and I learned something pretty valuable that's stuck with me.... only the Sith deal in absolutes.
Maddox almost flying kneeing you was a massive highlight to this video
"Possible"? Yeah
"Probable"? Nah
I mean, it HAS happened before, but it's the equivalent of trying to kill an enemy soldier with a ballpoint pen. You're only in that position because ALL the better options have failed or are unavailable. And your chance of success is only marginally better than zero.
Worth a shot if it's either that, or death. But as a first line option? 😂 no
Can’t believe it took him this long to make a video like this.
Biggest problem with youtube
Thank you for helping people to not get shot. Awesome video
I think this is absolutely spot on. With decent training, most people could easily make the 1st shot miss. The scary part is what comes after… what if the guy backs up realigns, and starts firing like a madman? Are you going to be fast enough and deceptive enough to slap the gun out of your area and take him down to the ground while keeping the weapon out of harm’s way? Also, let’s say your armed with a knife, can you inflict damage upon him quick enough once you’re on the ground to keep him from firing the gun?
I wouldn’t do this unless my life absolutely depended on it. If it was money, wallet, car etc… forget it.
That’s exactly the point when most schools teach this stuff. Unless they want to take you (or someone you love) somewhere at gunpoint, DO NOT ATTEMPT A DISARM. I’d rather cancel my stolen credit cards than cancel my life.
I respect the ending, thank you!
8:34 i really need a gif of these 3 exchanges unbroken lmao
I really enjoy you being honest about it. The bullshit online is just far too much
Love the shout out to WPS. Lovel is amazing, Craig Douglas is the absolute man in this sphere. His series on the realities of criminal assault on the WPSN is absolute money.
I love your vids, man.
“I don’t have an answer” is a great answer for this kind of topic
Love all the videos! Any chance we get some more systema content?
That is the best disarm/guy video out there.
Love what you do , been following you for years . Started a new channel
Love the ending!
This one was so entertaining 🤣 something I wanted to point out though is that at 7:39, when you pushed the gun out of the way, your thumb was practically IN the barrel and it would be back if they fired a second shot with your thumb there lol
Love it. Please don't stop making these videos. Best martial arts channel on youtube for sure.
You should try coming from below, ducking your head briefly to get your head out of line of the gun, while pushing the gun up, grabbing the gun and twisting it back (vertically, not sideways) towards their head. It's surprisingly effective........ in training. Can't say I've ever done it in real life though. Also, if you were in a building with floors above you, the gun is likely to go off while you're doing this, potentially hitting someone on a floor above. Also, this is specifically for a gun aimed at your head at close range. As others (and our instructor) pointed out, this is an absolute last resort, where you expect to be shot if you don't get the gun. He always told us to run from combat if possible, especially from knives, and for a gun you should just give them your money and hope they aren't kidnapping/shooting you (and only then try to get the gun).
Interesting video Seth. We actually learn disarms in our dojo, but that it's better to give the guy what he wants
Craig Douglas!! Shiv Works ! Awesome mention
Mike with and without glasses are 2 different entities.Even his voice gets softer when he wear glasses.
Thanks for another video. Liked the ambience behind the techniques tested,..is personality the best gun disarm??...lol.
1) My sensei have always repeated that any weapon disarm is the LAST thing in your arsenal.
2) No amount of training can make you sure to get out on a confrontation with a armed opponent.
Whenever we do this sort of stuff at krav, our instructor generally tells us that if they're just asking for money, just give them the money. It's only when you don't have any other options you should even attempt this sort of stuff, and even then you're pretty likely to end up getting shot if the gunman is even a little bit out of range.
I used to teach a lot of gun grabbing techniques until about 12 years ago when I went out to a range and tried to grab around a gun and hold on while I fired it. Grabbing and holding onto a semi-automatic is doable but a revolver is not. If you grab onto a revolver and it fires the percussion, the hot gas, and the unburned gunpowder will go right into the palm of your hand and you won't be able to hold onto it. You could even sustain a debilitating injury to your hand or lose a part of your finger. Since I don't like the idea of having one set of techniques for semi-automatics and another for revolvers, I stopped teaching grabbing onto the gun altogether.
did a a fair bit of aikido to supplement my striking skills, based on a teenage adoration of Nico/Above the Law. there was that scene in a bar where he wrist locks a guy aiming a gun at him. i thought it was so cool.
my best mate, with no martial arts experience said "lucky the gun didn't off and he didn't have any mates behind him".
One thing to take into consideration is the reason and intention the gun is pointed at you.
More often than not, if a gun is in close range (close enough to reach), the intention is not to fire it because it is used only as a threat for robbery or something else. He doesn't want to shoot you, because he could have done it while he was far away from you.
If a person wants to kill you, there is no "Give me your wallet..." conversation. He will just shoot you without talking to you. And in most cases you won't even see the firearm. Disarming will be nearly impossible if that is the case.
If the gun is used only as a threat or warning, the best advice is not to attempt to disarm him. That will escalate the situation from "him threatening you" to "him intending to not getting disarmed, and possibly shooting you".
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On a different note:
Awesome stuff Seth! It's fun to see you testing theories. Keep it up!
Next video: metaphysical combat situations in the astral plane
As someone who got robbed 3 times at gunpoint, loosing the wallet and or the phone was a better strategy. I remember a really honest Krav Maga instructor back in Rio de Janeiro that point that out a lot "If the he just wan't to rob you, give what he wants, this kind of defense is for life threatning situations, executions, rape, not fear of losing the cellphone".
One point I'd add for consideration- a guy like Richard Marx has practiced this a few thousand times to train his reflexes for maximum effectiveness. Even with boxing, a beginner has to learn proper body position, alignment, kinetic linking... to develop a good punch. I think that could make a big difference in how well these 'work'
Awesome video. Pizza Mike is too funny!
There's been an influx of bots trying to scam your subscribers lately pretending to be you.
Great content as always mate, might want to warn your viewers though that such scams are happening
✌️
I did not see you try what we used to practice for this.
Back about 4 decades ago, my friends and I who were into martial arts, sword fighting, the Society of Creative Anachronism, shooting guns, and generally doing lots of crazy physical things... we practiced the situation of having someone with a gun on you where you thought they were going to shoot you, but they had not shot you yet, thus you needed to take action before they did.
The requirement for being able to do this is that the person has to be close with the gun forward and not already shooting.
Who decides to act first has a huge benefit in such close quarters, because that delay in response time is what you have to prevent the gun from going off.
The move is to grab the gun and gun hand where the hammer is and move the aim of the gun in one direction while shifting your body in the other, so that if the gun does go off, it misses you. If you can get hold of where the hammer is, you can prevent the gun from firing.
The second immediate part of this is to get your second hand on the gun and gun hand, to make it two hands against one, while moving your body to try and keep them from getting two hands on the gun, if they did not already have two hands on it, begin kicking them, and now you have a close combat situation where neither person can afford to let go of the gun while the gun will not fire.
If you can't prevent the gun from firing, then you need to prevent it from pointing at you or reloading. If the gun is a semi-auto and you can keep the slide pulled back then it is not reloading.
Now, this is not an automatic win, but when we practiced this, we could regularly, most of the time, prevent the hammer of the gun from being able to fall and thus turning it into a close combat contest. Whoever then won that contest over control of the gun would win.
Not something to try in real life unless you expect they are going to shoot you no matter what, they just haven't done it yet.
If giving them your wallet is all they want, better to just give them your wallet.
Dam#, I was so entertained that I almost forgot to LIKE! :D
I know a guy in Sac who did the Mike move (on reflex). He still has the bullet in his arm, you can see it clearly when he flexes the right way. He wasn't trying anything fancy. The thief pulled the gun behind him, he saw something out of the corner of his eye and instinct took over.
You pulled a fast one on us there at the end, Seth, hahaha.
Another great video!
Kudos for trying these live. One problem with this testing strategy, however, is that the one playing shooter is expecting it. No martial arts technique works if the one on whom it's being tried is expecting it. Then of course there's the fact that a gun disarm is a last resort. I think 9 times out of 10, you'll end up getting shot in the face. But if you're for sure going to get shot anyway, why not take that 10% chance for success? Great video!
Call an ambulance is the best way I think 😂
Every professional martial artist I know has told me the best way to disarm someone with a deadly weapon is to prevent a fight from happening.
Even with a knife, you either comply with their demands (if it's a robbery for instance) or run if you can do so safely. Even Bruce Lee have told you to kick them in the nuts and flee.
My boxing coach for instance, who is trained in a few styles, and one of the toughest most capable fighters I've ever seen, a guy who has literally fought off groups of unarmed people single handlely in real life altercations, told me he basically shit his pants the couple of times he's had a gun pulled on him.
He did whatever he could to deescalate the situation and not try to be badass. Like a lot of misconceptions about fighting, things like this only work in controlled or specific situations, but don't translate to reality.
Being able to consistently successfully out martial art someone with a gun is a movie myth that should only be attempted if you literally have no other choice.
so basically, distract the attacker with words, before grabbing the gun? also, that ending though.
When pizza face(from All That) showed up I just about died. Love it!!!
You should try/making work Jiu Jitsu (Japanese), Lethwei, Bartitsu, Krav Maga, Filipino Martial Arts, Chuk Kuk Do (Chuck Norris), Keysi, Kickboxing and Luta Livre !!! 🙏🏼🙌🏼 Love those videos!!!
Every sensei/teacher I've ever had has always said, "If you fight a guy with a knife, you're going to get cut. End of story." I can't imagine it's any better with a gun.
Mike eating pizza during disarm, so funny! Made my morning!
A fried of mine tried this a few yeas ago using a low power airsoft pistol. He did the krav mags disarm and I did the same but with added ju jutsu. If you don't move your body at the saw time as the gun, you'll get shot every time. If you do move your body, you've got a chance. BUT only if the gun is very close. Otherwise, you're dead. Having a mock gun that fires safe projectiles really shows up the difficulties. At least that's what we found.
My experience with firearm disarms is that it is a multi-part process, just like say.. an arm bar.
Or a wrestling duck under.
You don't just slap. You also move to a position of advantage.
Against a pistol, my aim point is the hand/rear of the pistol. And it's a slap-grab motion while I am off centering and closing in, preferably to their outside gate.
I prefer the rear because it's easier to jam the hammer or grip the cylinder on a revolver. Or jam the slide on a semi auto. At which point, the pistol is a piece of metal.
Let the other person focus on that while you do other things.
Another thing is that the grab disarm isn't an arm movement. It's a whole body movement like trying to start a stubborn pull start lawn mower.
A great video!
Yes. It i difficult to hold on things if someone is actively trying to make you lose it.. also very easy to pull a trigger.
that video where the guy disarms two guys was impressive
Finally someone actually being realistic
"The answer is that there is no answer," he said.
And with that, Seth achieved enlightenment and ascended to the heavens.
The information, and techniques are not guarantees, just (potential) odds stackers👍
Some absolute amateur friends and I tried this. We found what you found, there just ain't no magic way even though it did sometimes work.
We also found that it's even harder when the robber uses the gangsta sideways grip.
Damn the ringtone at 3:49 to 3:50 scared the shit out of me. I have the same one and I thought I didn't have a phone until I realized I was watching this video with it
Seth i love your videos! We do a gun disarm in a self defense class that similar to one that you showed except it's backwards . . . Instead of slapping the inside of the wrist and the barrel so that the wrist bends the way it's designed to do you slap the outside of the wrist and grab the gun barrel twisting it to the outside of the arm not the inside. This could cause your finger to break if it's in the trigger guard so be careful if you try it. However this is not a cure all answer. It only works some of the time. We've practiced with air soft guns and getting shot in the face hurts! lol However we're taught a lot of the tings Icy Mike talked about. Talk to your attacker, ask them questions, and then attempt to take the gun while they're answering you because then they might be distracted from shooting you. Notice i said MIGHT. Changing the direction you twist the gun, talking to the attacker, and practicing can help improve your odds, but they still aren't very good odds. "Best thing is always to run if can, shoot them if you can't run (and have a gun), or final option use martial arts." Quote by my Martial Arts instructor.
I'm a martial arts instructor who has been practicing and teaching handgun disarm techniques for 30+ years. Of the thousands of total practice sessions we've done a few dozen sessions using an Airsoft handgun. The attacker with the gun might have several motivations, ranging from robbery to kidnapping. Success rate against the attacker (not getting shot and disarming successfully) usually ranges from 60% to 80%. That's a 20% to 40% failure even for experienced instructors. We teach that gun disarms are a desperation move. Only do them if you're pretty certain you're otherwise going to be killed. This includes usually trying a gun disarm rather than getting into a car with the perp, per FBI survival rate data.
My favorite teaching technique with handguns is when I'm the attacker. Sometimes I'll point the gun and say, "Just give me your keys and wallet and no one gets hurt". I'll also usually stay at a range and angle such that the disarm technique will probably fail. If the defender attempts the gun disarm in this situation it's an automatic FAIL. In this scenario SUCCESS occurs when the defender drops imaginary keys and wallet and walks away. It's not worth the risk of trying a gun disarm unless one's life is at stake.
So... based on having started Karate at age six and having about 30 years in now, taking into account gaps in training to reach my 40s... the problem with all of these gun disarms is the same as most knife defences if not most general self defence advice.
They all tend to rely on getting "The Grip". Hit that spot on the wrist first try, and sure, the gun's gone flying and the guy's eating sidewalk. But actually getting The Grip even in the dojo takes years of practice and even then is in no way guaranteed to happen in a real fight. I'm sure all the Old School know what I mean by "The Grip"... but you've got to be so fast against a gun, and if the other guy's done weapon retention... no "easy" disarm is going to work as planned, you're gonna have to fight for it.
Great advice from Icy Mike, distract to close enough distance to deflect the weapon, most people can do that most times at close range. Then attack the guy, don't get fixated on the disarm. Same as applies to any other weapon, get past the offensive line and tackle the guy before he can reset his defence.
There are ways to train this, but there's no "just do this" trick to make it easy.
If the gun is pointed at your head, use your hand on the side of the gun-holding hand to deflect it to that side. At the same time move your head about a foot to the other side to get it out of line with the barrel. You will not have hold of the gun, but your assailant will not be expecting your other arm to come up and slash him across the throat. This only works close up, of course.