Dr Kat and the Molly Houses
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- February is LGBT+ History Month in the UK (lgbthistorymon.... To mark it, I'm talking about the Molly Houses - a key part of LGBT+ history...
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Intro / Outro song: Silent Partner, "Greenery" [ • Greenery - Silent Part... ]
Images:
Covers for:
Rictor Norton, Mother Clap's Molly House: the gay subculture in England, 1700-1830 (2006 edition - originally published 1992)
Mark Ravenhill, Mother Clap's Molly House (2014)
Quoted texts:
Rictor Norton, The Georgian Underworld - rictornorton.co...
Description of Princess Seraphina, found at lgbthistoryuk....
Arrest and trials following the raid on Mother Clap’s, detailed in Old Bailey Proceedings Online “Trial of Margaret Clap” (11 July 1726).
Arrest, trials and attempted suicide following the raid on Miss Muff's, reported in “The Weekly Journal” or “British Gazetteer” on 5th October 1728.
I was one of the first to investigate the gay sub-culture of 17th and 18th century London. It was very much frowned upon by academia and I was refused permission by my university when I applied to do my PhD on the subject in 1980. I found that as well as the Molly Houses, Mother Clapp story and other characters such as Serafina etc, that the transcripts of the trials of men in the Middlesex Sessions and the Old Bailey Court Sessions provided the most interesting and deeply personal - at times both funny and tragic - insights into this sub-culture. I read and copied out every single one from the period of 1660 to 1800 and the work of the agents of the Society for the Reformation of Manners was very much in evidence. Much of this material from the trials still has not been worked on. The person who most encouraged me on the topic in 1979 was none other than Dr Christina Wolf, a pioneer in the history of sexuality, who I met in the reading room of the British Library when we were both requesting the same book which was the early 18th century publication about Molly Houses called "Satan's Harvest Home: the true results of Sodomy". So glad this video highlights some of this history.
So much gratitude for your work! THANK YOU.
Satanists still use sodomy today to reverse the entertainment flow of pranab, reverse the positive chakra flow to negative. This undesirable side effect of anal assault is rarely acknowledged.
I'm absolutely fascinated to hear about your work. Have you any published research, or any contact information through which this can be discussed further?
if you were refused to simply research it/talk about it imagine how much more of older history is to be discovered about this subject.
This is the first I have ever heard of Molly houses. Thank you. It makes me so sad to think of those poor people living in fear and having to hide their true selves. Thank you for the informative, thought provoking videos!
When I first learned about Molly houses many many years ago, the first thing that actually came to my mind was the lyrics of The Beatles song "Obla Di Obla Da", especially the last verse:
"Happy ever after in the market place
Molly lets the children lend a hand
Desmond stays at home and does his pretty face
And in the evening she's a singer with the band."
you've given the lyric a new context for me. I don't know if we could find out if that was their influence but it's compelling
It’s a lovely thought but sadly it wasn’t the case, McCartney messed up the lyrics replacing Molly with Desmond. The other band members thought it was hilarious and they decided to keep it as it was. Lennon hated the song with a passion calling cultural appropriation (which it is ) and more of “Paul’s granny 💩 music”
it is usually voted as The Beatles worst song and wasn’t even released in Britain or the USA as a single. It is always in music critics 20 worst songs ever. McCartney also really p*she’d off the British black community with it.
Great video, I’ve never heard of molly houses. As a gay man I find this an amazing subject and needs far more attention
The tv show Harlots depicts a molly house.
i'm right with you dude even though i am not gay ( asexual) but i just want you to know you got a friend here that will accept you even if others won't
Dr. Kat, this is Dr. Joe. You are indeed a treasure. I am a homosexual man and appreciate your love and humanistic intellect. I was one lucky American in that I had an incredible father who loved me and didn't care what gender I loved. And, I am talking about the late 70's and 80's. Although I have never fit into the "gay" culture I was never in a closet and was actually married to a wonderful, great Austrian cop who died 9 years ago. He was my soul. Thank you for this interesting piece. I cannot imagine a time or situation in which I could not have loved my husband, my Hansel. Thanks.
This is making my mind reel over Little Richard. “Good Golly Miss Molly” will never sound the same to me again.
The uncensored lyrics for Tutti Frutti were ' Tutti Frutti - Good Booty- If it dont fit , Dont force it!"
I think he was bi. When he passed away I read a few biographical articles and things about him that mentioned it.
Can I "Super Like" this video? Would absolutely LOVE more LGBTQ+ topics - we so rarely get any historical content on these issues!
Right On ...
@Margaret Gust Well said
Don't you wish people could just mind their own business?
To think people are still murdered today for similar things breaks my heart.
I have never heard of Molly Houses! Thank you for teaching about this. We need the affirmation, the validation and the support of our history.
I've been thinking for a long time you should do a video on LGBT members of society from the past. I'd never heard of Molly Houses so I loved this and learned so much. I'd love to know more about gay women of the past.
This is fascinating, a vital insight in LGBT+ history...thank you so, so much, Dr Kat. Our history is to often erased and dismissed, every generation of bigots likes to pretend we sprung from the head of Andy Warhol in 1962 or were invented on tumblr two weeks ago, so finding something like this means a lot.
Dr M, not everyone would think molly houses worth a mention--thank you for a fair and nuanced video.
Brilliant and fascinating Kat! I love hearing about marginalised/lost voices that are rarely found except (if at all) in the criminal/medical notes, and/or footnotes of published history. I have spent years studying History but haven't read much around this topic, although I had some awareness of Molly Houses. Could you please create more videos addressing the minority demographic voices in relation to the different genres of history you personally specialise in? Personally, I find it gives me greater understanding and context for contemporary conversations and social concerns/issues.
Thanks for celebrating LGBT+ History Month, albeit with a story that makes me sad that happiness and joy have been made so difficult for so many for centuries. Yes, I was aware of Molly Houses what they were and some of the diversity of activities there. I notice that when you related many of the charges laid against individuals, the majority were not of "sodomy". It seems that Molly houses were not just about sex, but like all brothels since the dawn of time, they were about affection, acceptance, being heard and having a space to (maybe) express your authentic self. Sex is part of that too, of course. Let's hope there was some comfort for their patrons.
I had heard of Molly Houses before, having read much LGBTQ history before. I first encounterd a book by Rictor Norton in 1976, that's how long I've been reading about LGBTQ history. Really safe spaces are very recent in the U.S. I came out and went to gay bars or other gay venues when police still raided the bars. All of these signs of progress are now hanging in the balance as forces of regression are very active politically.
I had never heard of molly houses until today, Dr Kat. Thank you for this truly fascinating view into our history. Am going to do some reading on this. This video and topic reminds me of a very good friend of many years. Were he still living, I'd call him up to tell him about this video & what I'd just learned. He likely would have immediately opened a new tab & watched it *while we were still on the phone.*
Then, he would have filled me in on even more detail and invite me over for lunch, and press books I must read into my hands, and feed me, educate & inform me, make me laugh over & over. O dear James. How I miss you! Thank you again, Dr Kat. Keep these excellent videos coming!
Absolutely fantastic and in formative. And by the way, I'm not doing anything for Pride other than just being gay and going about my day. However hearing the struggles of the people in history make me know how, as an American male submerged in a time of apps where you can order up a "date" as easy as ordering pizza delivery online. Hearing the struggles of the past and the dangers they lived in those times is certainly eye opening. Gay history is such an enigma. Having a glimpse into the past of LBGT life is fascinating to me. Bravo for your video and its content. There needs to be more education on this. I am impressed with Dr. Kat (*I just subscribed to this channel a few weeks ago, basically because I'm fascinated with 16th & 17th century history. But today I found this gem of subject matter. I'm glad I subscribed. This channel is fascinating and enjoyable to watch. So far it's gone well beyond my expectations)
I know of Molly houses only through the vehicle of Outlander. Not only is it a wonderful story but an accurate window into our past.
When doing a research project in college (1981?), I stumbled across some vague accounts of Molly houses. Later, in the 90's I think, I discovered some novels that used the Mollies as criminals, spies, etc. Always second or third class citizens. Your account makes me admire them all the more. Thank you for shedding light on a subject that everyone (particularly LGBTQ's) should know. We study history to prevent much of it from repeating itself.
I'm so glad I stumbled across this during Pride month (June in Canada). I've never heard of Molly houses before, so this video is a great introduction
Maybe the internet recommended your channel to me because it realised I watched Harlots a year ago and learned what a Molly House was thanks to this show ? Whatever the reason is, I am glad I stumbled upon your channel. Love from France (but like the "French bise" in a social distancing kinda way) !
I had no idea about Molly Houses. How awful that they were treated in such a cruel manner and with great misunderstandings. Glod bless them all. .
Thank you so much for allowing me to connect with my history which is so hard to find.
Dr. Kat I think you're terrific! Love your videos and your thorough research and open-mindedness! Thanks!
amazing isn't it - even if you dislike their behaviour, think it wrong, or even evil - to sentence them to death for it is so extreme
Thank you Dr Kat for such an incisive and illuminating video about a less documented part of LGBT history in the UK. Like a lot of people I first came across the word 'molly' in this historical situation through possibly the Carry On films or Blackadder where it was used for comedy reasons. Guess my surprise many years later when I discovered a pub and restaurant in Manchester's gay village proudly calling ITSELF 'The Molly House'! (Note, this same building ALSO proudly displays a large numeral celebrating Manchester's lgbt pioneers including the recently historically pardoned mathematician Alan Turing of 'The Enigma Machine' fame).
I do though have a question about how the actual 'popular' culture, of the time in the 18th century, both 'high' and 'low' reflected these 'molly' characters, if at all. My own experience in looking at the previous 'gay' representation in the 17th century, most notably around the time of the Restoration of the 1660s onward with Charles II does 'seem' to show a more public acceptance back then (I may be wrong of course as I don't have historical documentation to show this) in the world of 'high' culture, following a 'Renaissance' model as established with Shakespeare and Marlowe in the 16th century, as reflected in the writing of Margaret Cavendish and Aphra Behn, the poetry of Lord Rochester (as seen in the film, 'The Libertine' as played cartoonishly by Johnny Depp) and even parodied and burlesqued with the 'bawdy' songs of Henry Purcell and his peers, (Purcell famously has a comedy love duet filled with double entendres between a shepherdess and her male swain in his 'The Faerie Queen' , both played by men as was common at the time before women were allowed to act on stage) and within certain situations within his English operas and entertainments. I note though after the 1690s this acceptance within the higher parts of English society seems to dissolve and dissapear by the time of the Georgian kings, returning to a more 'low' culture representation as seen in Thomas Gay's 'popular opera' The Beggars Banquet'. Is this your own experience too from your own research in these periods?
I had never heard of Molly Houses. Thank you for making a video about the subject.
As much as I enjoy learning about the Georgian period, I am so lucky to be alive in a time where I have the language to articulate my identity in a nuanced way and even get to live as my authentic self.
give us more content pleaseeeeee, i could watch you talk for days!!
Dr. Kat, what a fascinating, wonderful and yet so heartbreaking discussion of the grim reality of persecution LGBT people of those times were made to suffer. Thank you for making this. For the record LGBT+ History Month here in the US is in June. June being the month of the historic Stonewall Uprising in New York City and the birth of the modern gay rights movement.
Came here after watching the video of Sir Wyatt the elder and was not disappointed. I had not previously heard of mollies or molly houses. Another amazing video! Thank you Dr. Kat! 🎉🎉🎉🎉
I read Rictor Norton;s book on Molly Houses in the first edition. I am not surprised to see so many in comments saying they were completely unfamiliar with the subject--just as so many have told me they knew nothing about the Lavender Scare in the USA in the 1950;s until they saw a recent documentary film about it. /thanks for sharing this information and doing a good work with it.
I had heard of them Dr Kat, but only since watching the BBC historical drama series Taboo in 2017 ( starring and part written by Tom Hardy ) which featured such an establishment. In fact if I remember correctly the Molly house was raided at one point. I think that one of the gentlemen who frequented this house was a gentle soul who had the misfortune to work for the East India Company at that time and ended up escaping to the new world with the few characters that survived one form of persecution or another. Prior to that I must admit that I hadn't even heard of the term before, it was certainly never taught as part of history at school ( no big surprise there!!! ). Thankyou you as ever for your illuminating video. You definitely possess the all too rare ability of a natural born teacher xx
I had never heard of Molly houses. I had heard that execution was done for adultery and I knew that anything that was considered sodomy which even included some hetrosexual acts was punishable I wasn't aware it was a capital offence though.
Brilliant video Dr.Kat! This was all new to me. Power to the LGBT+ people, the struggle is long and real.
Absolutely, I think that it's so important to explore the historical events and people that tend not to get the coverage they deserve. Thank you for watching, I'm so pleased you liked the video! Hope to see you soon!
@@ReadingthePast ❤ Thank you. ❤
I had never heard of Molly Houses, this was very interesting. It is important to know that the "gay" community is nothing new, and more over it is also important for people to mind their own business and let people be themselves. looking back on my childhood I now know that some "uncles" I had were gay....however I grew up believing that each person needs to be true to their nature....and it is not my business who people love or how they dress....more of these histories are needed. We are all people.
I have heard of Molly Houses and it’s actually refreshing to find your video about them. It is well made, thank you.
I'm so glad things like this are being spoken about and we can learn about this silent side of history. So many people seem to think homosexuality is a new thing that's caused by "all the gays on TV" - when in reality it's been a real and valid part of societies all over the world for millennia. Nothing new about it - and yet people who live it are still faced with danger and hatred. We still haven't learned.
I had heard about Molly houses before but never looked up the history. This video was very I informative. Of course raids on where gay people gathered happened up thru the 20th. century. The last one I knew of was in the early 1990s. I guess gay people back then saw the Molly houses as a safe space like many gay men find their bars and dance places today - a safe spot to be themselves.
Raids on gatherings of gay and otherwise transgressive people continue in other countries, esp thaose with Islamic and evangelical Christian culture. Al Quaida gained notority by posting videos of gay men (or those accused of homosex) being stoned to death and/or thrown off roofs.
Very interesting Dr Kat! Have never heard of Molly Houses and I found this enlightening. Would love to watch another such video about this done by you. 😊👍🏼
Thank you for telling these forgotten stories. I am surprised that more people don't know about this.
Fascinating video as always! I had known of Molly houses, after going for drinks, in a gay bar called 'The Mollyhouse' and was curious of the name.
Love your content.😊
Thank you shining a light on this often forgotten piece of lgbtq+ history. 🙏🏻
I never knew about Molly Houses, thank you for sharing. It amazes me that even in this day and age some of these prejudices still exist.
I HAD NEVER HEARD OF THEM BEFORE...THANKS FOR THE VIDEO ...HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!!!
Harlots, as far as I´ve seen (a dozen episodes) raised the knowledge initially. Now, I´ll look further still.
Thank you.
I have known about molly houses. And its in better detail in the 2nd and 3rd seasons of the show Harlots. It really does do a decent service to that and the time.
I’ve never heard of molly houses and was fascinated to hear your story. My daughter has a close friend who is gay &, even in modern day, had a difficult time coming to terms with the fact. Thank you so much for your educating us all!
It’s surreal to listen to this. I’m 33 and things have changed so much in the last 15 years, but some things don’t. I think most gay men/women know someone who has committed or attempted suicide over the shame of being gay, or have tried or thought about it themselves. To hear of that man attempting suicide shows how relatable history is and how sometimes things don’t change. How terribly sad in this context. But on a brighter note the description of these molly houses do sound a lot like today’s gay bars. :) Thank you so much for sharing this historic topic and I would love to hear more!
Excellent talk thanks. I was aware of Molly houses from my research into Polari and was aware of the cross dressing and marriage/birth ceremonies. For History Month I give a couple of talks for the University of Leeds and York LGBT history month on Polari and a brief history of glitter 😉
*edit* from what I can tell the song Minnie The Moocher is largely about an American Molly in the early part of the 20th century. Also if people want to see a reasonably accurate depiction of a molly and molly houses the TV show The Alienist depicts several
This is the first I've heard about them. I would love to hear more about LGBTQ throughout history.
Great video. It's very sad to think people were sentenced to death for who they were attracted to. I have heard about Molly houses but not that much and what I did know was told to me by gay friends and by reading and looking into the lives of people such as Oscar Wilde and others further in the past. Thanks for this. It's fascinating.
I had not heard of Molly Houses until I saw the series "Harlots" on Amazon. Your piece here on youtube is only the second mention of it that I can recall. There will always be haters for those folks who live outside the box. It surprises me that Molly Houses were allowed to exist at all in centuries past but then again, the Romans had bath houses before even the old London days and we all know they did more than just bathe. The subject does intrigue me and this was a nice departure from the usual history, giving a more in depth picture of how things were a few hundred years ago.
Excellent as always. This is my first time learning of Molly Houses. I wonder if anything comparable existed here in the United States.
Thank you for putting this up. This was part of history that I never got in school!
Thank you for this wonderful video!
I have known about Molly houses for a long time. I like the quirky side of history.
I echo Jack-Mitchell-Shelley's "Super Like." As a gay man, I had never heard of Molly Houses and this history. Thank you and best wishes.
Thank you Dr Kat. I hadn’t ever heard of ‘Molly Houses’ before today.
Very interesting, as always. I had no idea that these molly houses existed. Fascinating.
Oh, God! I didn't know anything about Molly Houses before I watched this video. I was curious when I read the title so I clicked on it and was horrified by the details of the persecution of these poor people!
Prior to watching this video, I knew of only two cases of homosexual persecution in England, namely: Oscar Wilde and Alan Turing.
Thank you for making me aware of the rich history of LGBTQ+ community in England!
Loved learning about this! It would be the coolest thing ever if you could cover more LGBT+ topics!
as an LGBTQ asexual member thank you for not glossing over the sad truth about how be people thought about LGBTQ members and it is refreshing to see a country that is okay with dedicating a month to those people
I watched a doco (it feels like a century ago) called ‘Queer as 18th c Folk’- it was quite eye-opening...
This is so interesting, thank you so much for making this video and increasing my knowledge. It is a sad story and this very small comfort was, if I understand correctly, only available to men. What would a woman do who had the same feelings?
I was surprised they had a name because most times I watch an 18th century type show, this is touched on but a name was never given. Shows like Johnny Depp in The Libertine, the series Ripper Street, Penny Dreadful's or the Frankenstein Chronicles. I love that kind of story and have never known these places were called this.
So informative, thank you. I had no idea these were so prevalent, although I was under the impression they continued on past the 1820s. Perhaps similar establishments operated under different names. Here in the US June is pride month and sadly many of the celebrations will not be happening.
I did encounter the Molly Houses when studying Early Modern European History at Uni. The records of raids & convictions, most particularly the instances of execution for sodomy and the more severe corporal penalties such as whipping & pillorying show clearly that it was working class men who bore the brunt of legal ire & moral outrage.
Though often frequented by members of the upper & middle classes there are very few convictions recorded against such customers. In addition, few of the exclusively upper class Molly Houses were ever raided. Though the existence & location of them were an open secret in those social circles.
This class discrimination, was very much in line with the way all the other laws of the time - and arguably of our current times too - were administered. One experience of the law for them - another for us.
This I think explains the smooth path of Princess Seraphina. She was allied with an aristocrat & this most definitely served to protect her from a far worse fate.
This is the first time I have heard of the mollie House.. Fascinating stuff 👌🌈🌈🌈😍🥰😘
Thank you for telling their stories
Moll and mollis are excellent etymological connections; the name "Mary" may have been an influence, too.
Never heard of these. Interesting 🧐
Thank for the video! It was really interesting. I’d heard of Molly Houses, but not in so much detail. I had previously thought they were just brothels offering men or boys dressed as women. I didn’t know there was a lot more behind that.
Hi Dr. Kat. I learning a lot about England, learning better English and more words. And I like to hear about the history in generel. I'm from Denmark and wish that somebody over here would make something like this about the danish history to. Keep up doing it. 👍
I enjoy your videos, so when this popped up I started watching. I think I may have heard the term Molly House before...but I sure didn't know anything about them.
Fascinating, thank you.
Absolutely fascinating.
I new nothing about this. We dont have s month in Canada, or if we do it's not well advertised. I love hearing about this type of history. Thank you for sharing.
Today I found out my 8th great grandfather and his family lived in fields lane Holborn where mother claps molly house was!
I did know about molly houses but not much about them. It's hard to be LGBTQ in Manchester and York and not hear of them.
This video has certainly helped me understand more about them.
Wow that was fascinating
Thank you Dr Kat
Had no idea of Molly houses very enlightening.
I never knew about Molly houses, though I had wondered how gay and trans men got to meet other like minded men in the past. I'm a long time Ally, plus a history nerd, and I'm just floored I've not run across this Info before now. Thank you Dr. Kat, for this video, now I'm going to look more into this.
I have a degree in English Literature and I had never heard of molly houses! How is that possible? Thank you for this. It's important information for everyone to know.
I was not aware of this culture in London - fasinating and apart from hopefully Princess Seraphina ultimately tragic it proves that regardless of what the right wing bigots would say trans culture is not a new phoemenem.
The show Taboo...shows one. Great show.
I’m so old I used to go to Molly Houses!! My name was Ms Breda Lott 😂🇮🇪🇪🇺❤️🧡💛💚💙💜🌈🦄
Was not the great scandal that involved telegram boys very late in the nineteenth century? That seems to be oft mentioned in novels in which molly houses are not even the major subject of the book, i.e. mystery series set in the Victorian period.
Have you thought about doing a video on Hannah Snell? Very interesting woman. Or the Chevalier d'eon.
OMG I was literally today years old (36...37 on Friday) when I found out about Molly houses!
Long ago I read Fanny Hill for a research projectand the term "Molly" was in there. I hadn't heard of Molly houses until I read about them in fan fiction.
I had heard the term Molly House, but did not know much about them until now. I find it very sad that a person can be so persecuted for simply living in the way he or she feels is natural. That this kind of persecution continues to this day, though it may no longer be legal, is very distressing.
As always, I enjoy watching your videos and also reading some of the very interesting comments.
There was a Molly House in the show Harlots (not sure if you've heard of it/seen it on Hulu). It's so sad how people were treated and it's good to know more about history since a lot isn't covered in conventional educational settings.
you rock, Dr. Kat!
Fascinating.
This is the first I’ve heard of Molly houses
Tragic
I had not known of molly houses. Thanks for eliminating a gap in my knowledge
I really admire Anne Lister of Gentleman Jack fame. A woman before her time who married a woman and oversaw her own estate, land, and coal all in the early 18th century. Perhaps you could do a video of her. Enjoy your content very much. Thanks so much. :)
I admit to having heard of but entirely misunderstand what a molly house was and the function it served. I wonder if there is something comparable in the States about the same time... Thank you again for an informative and interesting video!
That's a great question - Edward Hyde, governor of New Jersey and New York in the first decade of the 1700s, is believed to have worn women's clothing. There is a portrait held by the New York Historical Society that is believed to depict him dressed in this way.
I would need to to do some further research into whether this was evidence of a wider sub-cultural practice in the US or if this was something he brought from his homeland?
@@ReadingthePast : Was he the governor, one of whose Christian names was Anne after Queen Anne? If it was a Hyde, then I presume he was also a cousin of both Mary II and Queen Anne; I can't remember where I read that a colonial governor, if it was him, would appear at colonial balls (hem) in full drag
@@christopherseton-smith7404 Hi - check out this brief information. All taken with a grain of salt since no sources for the information given. nymag.com/news/features/scandals/edward-hyde-2012-4/
@@ReadingthePast His position was that he represented Queen Anne as Governor of the colony of New York and should therefore dress like her. If there was anything else going on, it's never been proven; but NY has ALWAYS had an strong, if not as public, under-culture
I had no idea about Molly houses!