I swear Dr. Kat could say "...and today we're talking about egg shells," and I'd be like "Hell yes!" As a history nerd and an info maniac Dr. Kat's channel has become a serious happy place. I appreciate her research, her presentation style, her perspective and humility. I am a long time lurker but today I needed a Dr. Kat video and here it is -- so I just wanted to thank her for her content!
Another video I watched claimed that women wore no undergarments like drawers and merely let the menses, er.. flow--but surely that would have stained the chemise and then those outer garments (as any woman whose pad has leaked can attest).
@@jarmen49 I don’t think they bled as much as we do-but considering they didn’t have washing machines and clothes were expensive-why wouldn’t they use rags?
In the "Tudor Monastery Farm", archaeologist Peter Ginn demonstrates the clothing worn by the men of the peasant class, how it's fastened-literally "sewn" together, top and bottom by the use of laces. Peter does an excellent, semi-comedic job, demonstrating how his tunic and hose are worn..laced together. Definitely worth a watch.
I did Civil War re-enactments for a while, and at one of the first events I attended it started raining and we were standing at attention for the National Anthem and then a volley of musket fire to top off the festivities. My now grown daughter (who was 3 at the time) was in her brand new CW era replica dress, had a little hat, etc. but no umbrella, and the rain was unexpected. I had everything period correct, even the undergarments, and of course underneath it all these things are crotch-less (terribly scandalous!) but very handy when needing to use the porta john in a hoop skirt. My daughter decided to duck under my skirt to keep dry. Just as things were going quiet just before we re-joined the parade line I heard my daughter whisper, "Mommy, I can see your pee pee"! I literally almost swooned! rofl Fortunately the only ones who heard were the ladies of my group, but I was mortified just the same!
I wear a back brace every night to treat a spinal deformity and the brace is very much like a pair of stays. I can say first hand, they are very comfortable, provide a lot of support, and give a great shape. Much better than a bra in my opinion😂
Thank you, especially for the bit on chastity belts. Far too many younger men think it plausible without stopping to think just how deadly such a belt would be. Instead of the princess in the tower motif, the reality is the wife would remain to run the castle, lands, raise the children etc. For that she needed to be healthy, active in the manner of dePizan.
Yes but there is the very old joke about the wife whose husband puts her in one, goes off to wherever, and within minutes of his departure, the wife's lover turns up with a spare key or a cooperative locksmith, to get her right out of it. Probably some truth in there somewhere....
Also, how is the Master of the House to be sure that he has not left his wife in the early stages of pregnancy before leaving for a crusade that would certainly last beyond her term?
There is a lot of controversy regarding how harmful stays/corsets actually were. Most of the pictures of victorian ladies with miniature waists (i.e. minute 12:56 ) were actually edited with the tools of the time. For example, the picture shown in said minute shows a woman on a bare, black background, which allowed people to paint with black ink the surroundings of the woman to make this very small waist. If you look at most of the pictures of said time that depict a woman with a small waist, you'll notice that the background where the waist is, it's almost always bare or very simple, sometimes the waist is even botched because of bad editing. The notion that stays were harmful started around the suffragette movement... by men. Men used whatever was associated with women to harm them. Now, of course stays have negative sides and can be used to harm your body if you don't use them correctly, but so can bras. Anyhow, if anyone is interested in said subject, Karolina Żebrowska has an amazing and informative video about it that I would recommend.
Morgan Donner did an excellent video on her experience wearing a corset for week. Bernadette Banner has a great video on Victorian corsets that includes fascinating info on her experience growing up in a corset used to support her scoliosis.
@@yohtan mmmm I think it depends. Some of those pictures were corset ads or simply to brag about your tiny waist with your friends. Small waists were, after all, the beauty standard back then.
The feminine belts went away when I was quite young. I really missed them. The pads stayed in place. And in a pinch you could use those pads to shine your shoes.
Very interesting. My 4 x great grandfather, who had the wonderful name Ebenezer Tough, was a staymaker working in Hungerford Market - now the site of Charing Cross station. This was about 1780 to about 1799, he came from Leith, Edinburgh where his brother and two nephews were also staymakers. One of my great grandmothers wore 'split drawers' and when she died there was an argument about her meagre leavings between two of her daughters. She died in 1956, well into her 80s after bearing some 15 children!
Oh, they're probably just stuck in a chastity belt. ;) The good thing is, it actually doesn't hurt Dr. Kat in any way. It just equals more engagement on her video and channel. Dr. K: 1 Troll: 0
I watch priorattire’s YT channel-she’s a historical re-enactor who makes her own clothes as well as for a living. She has videos demonstrating getting dressed in all the layers of various historical eras, and even has an excellent one demonstrating (discreetly, of course!) how women would relieve themselves while wearing the voluminous gowns of the Victorian era.
A woman does not actually need to squat to take a pee, crap yes, same as a man. But a woman can pee upright,like a man. No idea where this squatting thing came from.Make sure your clothing is out of the way and you are discreet and you can pee by a tree, just like your boyfriend.He might not like it of course. just spread your legs Keep your underwear out of the way and go for it if you pick soft soil it is gone Do you think the Tudors had ladies loos? Women need re education! LOL
My grandmother, European-born in the late 1800's, had drawers (bloomers) with a split like those in the photo. As a child, I wondered what good they could be.
On the subject of waist training - many of the photographs of women with super tiny waists were actually edited. In the picture in this video, you can see how the background is far darker and plainer between her arms and body, as compared to outside her arms. This was achieved by painting on the photograph. Early forerunner of Photoshop! Karolina Zebrowska did a video on this subject, and demonstrated how easy it was to fake a photo.
Oh Ok, they faked it, but why? The same reason that they photo shop women now? To make them feel lnferior., somehow lesser because they don't reach these impossible aims? And actually they did not fake it.Women did and still do deform their bodies to achieve these total contortions. They were not 'Fake' Whatever your rather pathetic deperate for attention never heard of lady says, sorry. I did look her up.I had to. How Sad!
I love how sassy you get with your commentary in this one, definitely let out a chuckle at work while watching. Thank you for the video, I'm really interested in topics like this about how people used to live in general.
Bernadette Banner made an AMAZING video on corsetry and misconceptions. And, actually, the photo you shared of “tight lacing” is altered and is not genuine. If you look between the woman’s elbows you can see the “back drop”, that is speckled and reflecting light around her outline, is blacked out. There was a LOT of photo shopped photos, from early days, to show exaggerated waists, extended hips and busts, and even altered hair! If it looks too extreme to be real, it probably isn’t.
When i saw the underwear that was found, my first thought was that it held fabric rags during menstruation. The shape and size suggests in fit close to the body, unlike baggy bloomers or drawers.
@@lisad7854 Especially with a fly or cod piece. It would be irritating for men to get underwear out of the way when wearing a cod piece to be able to use the facilities and I doubt most would want the bother.
My grandmother, who was born in 1899, proudly spoke of her 18-inch waist when she was a young woman and I can remember being fascinated as she pulled herself into an extraordinary corset when I was a child. She was never a particularly vain woman so I think that this practice was more widespread in Victorian Australia then you indicate.
When I saw the "panties" in question, my first thought was old style sanitation belt. When I came of that age, sanitation belts were not really being used, but for some reason, they were still teaching teen girls about them. But I can see how these panties would be worn (probably very comfortably) by a man. Chasity belt, I could never imagine them as anything other than a torture device. Were they use? Well, far worse items of torture were deployed to scare and actually torture, so why not this? I truly pity anyone who was put in one.
It might seem like a small detail, but always before when I saw decorative edging on sleeves like that in medieval paintings, I assumed the black represented the negative space in lace; I never thought that it was tiny black embroidery! Amazing! Thank you for that, Dr. Kat. Your topic was right on time for me; I'm actually working on handstitching a medieval style linen shift at the moment. Great video!
Dr Kat, I have always been in awe of your knowledge and educated discussions of historical events and people, but when you wander into the area of clothing you are in my territory. I began researching, studying, reproducing, and wearing historical style clothing as an avocation in 1991 and continue to this day. While no expert myself in this area I can refer you to several who live in England whose academic and practical knowledge far outstrips my own wildest ambitions. The 2008 discovery of the 14th century "bra" was very exciting for me. The existence of the "bras" and the "underpants" have and, I suspect, will continue to be a subject of controversy. In all my research I have never come across any discussion of what the either the finders or the subsequent expert studies made of them. After perusing the available photos I formed a theory of my own. They are made out of linen. That means they are eminently washable and fairly quick drying. However, the simplicity of the design and its lack of ornamentation suggests they were not the property of a high-born person. My own guess is that these were meant to be worn by either lower-class women or possibly nuns! How practical a garment would that bra be to wear under a habit? The design of the underpants is of particular interest since they do not resemble anything worn anywhere else that that I've read about. Did they belong to a man? I don't think so. First, even in a poor person's circumstances it's unlikely that they'd be put together with women's clothing for practical purposes, but more importantly they would be terribly inconvenient in the case of an urgent call of nature. Their unlikely design suggests to me--as you also said--a means of holding some form of absorbent protection against either incontinence (an especially common after-effect of multiple pregnancies) or menstruation. Your discussion of corset tightlacing deserves the dismissal you give it. Extant photos showing deformed figures like the example shown are usually altered by the precursor of Photoshop--the airbrush, or else they simply painted over the image. The popular fiction that women had ribs removed in order to make their waists smaller is quite impossible given the lack of anesthesia, the primitive or non-existent surgery of the time, and the high probability of infection. Some very few women might have engaged in the torturous practice of waist "training"--a practice I personally lump together with the Chinese custom of foot-binding--which may have deformed some of the lower ribs. I suspect that such a practices causes severe health problems. However, its' true that a few extra-squishy ladies can force their bodies into a less extreme shape. Human beings do have a soft area just below the ribs, but the amount that it can be compressed varies very widely, two to four inches is about all that you can do and still be functional. Most of us simply do not squish that small. I have worn both 16th and 19th century corsets. The earlier garment (I chose to make a corded pair o' bodies, lacing fore and aft and eschewing the busk) does nothing much to compress at all. I can compress up to three inches in my 1870s reproduction--but it's VERY uncomfortable to do it. For long re-enactment days where I will be very busy I generally don't like to go smaller than two inches. As a side note, no medical corset prescribed by my doctors ever gave me such perfect back support. Finally, a comment on the crotchless undergarments such as drawers, pantalettes, et.al. It may be amusing, but trying to take down your underwear when it's stuffed under your corset while simultaniously wrestling a hoopskirt, two or three petticoats, and one or two outer skirts is at the very best highly impractical or at worst, utterly disastrous depending upon the sense of urgency. I find the concept that full coverage undies were the mark of the prostitute very amusing, considering the inconvenience required to ply the trade. Love this video.
Wonderful and informative comment. A friend of mine did some historic costume lectures and she mentioned 'split drawers' such as shown in this video. No sewn crotch. Here in the western U.S., public toilets were a late invention. My friend said when women went to town, if they had to pee, they just went into the alley and placed their feet wide apart. As I mentioned in my comment above, the curved seam in modern trousers is a rather late invention so underpants, knickers, whatever, as well as male attire was rather crude and many times resembling the breach cloths of primitive societies, according to my sources. Also, a lot of the court costumes were too unmanageable for a woman to have any natural body functions. In Versailles there were special, large porcelain cups a woman could place under the many skirts, farthingales, etc. Or ladies in waiting could help her. It is said modern people frequently buy these antique cups, thinking they are for use at table, such as gravy boats.
Thank you for beating me to this. I've been putting off watching this video for hours because I find that non-costume experts (although valid historical researchers) tend to misunderstand and misinterpret historical clothing, especially when it comes to the titillating subject of underwear.
@@gracienoid44 I regret I do not have a RUclips channel. However, if you want to see some wonderful, informative, and entertaining videos by true experts, I highly recommend Bernadette Banner, Morgan Donner, and Karolina Żebrowska. They are well-informed historians plus Morgan and Bernadette are also re-creators who take you along on their journeys of creation. I also recommend Cathy Hay as a highly inspirational speaker who just might tempt you into trying it yourself.
@@annalisette5897 I've worn Victorian and Tudor-era costumes, and usually for very long days. Trust me when I say the split-drawers are a godsend. Even though they're not HISTORICALLY ACCURATE (sorry, too many fashion police out there for me to be able to avoid the disclaimer) for Renaissance wear, they are a godsend for comfort at any kind of costume event.
I personally agree that some sort of drawers or pants would have been helpful during menstruation but given bulky and heavy skirts would have been an impediment to using a chamber pot at other times. So maybe drawers were worn only when necessary. I remember my grandmother talking about wearing split drawers when she was a girl so that they didn't need to be removed each time. She was born in 1892.
As I understand it, and I may be wrong, women used the equivalent of tampons for a very long time.Wads of whatever was absorbent enough A cork in a bottle! Ancient Egyptians used papryus, others used wool I think it only changed with church interference.Now there is a surprise! By the way they still do in the Amazon and such places.
@@hogwashmcturnip8930 My grandmother was shown by a friend of hers how to use a piece of rope and rags for her time of the month, much like the belts of my era, late 60's early 70's before stick to the pants came out. 2 Slip knots; one front, one back to hold the ends of the rag; and tied on one side or the other. She washed her own rags out by hand too. She was from a fairly well off family in Mexico so if there had been other options, I'm sure she would have used them. Emigrated to the States when she was 13 and was naturalized before 1928. I use split drawers when I dress at a local ren fair. Helps with chaffing and easy to use the modern rest room(privy), especially with hoops.
@@cynthiahowe8697 @Cynthia Howe My mother and grandmother used pieces of terry towelling, that would be washed and re used. But I have heard of other cultures where women used plant fibres and similar to create a plug - a tampon, effectively. No idea if it is true It would need to be an absorbent fibre, cotton maybe?
Thankyou for this Dr Kat. You approached what a certain person described here in the comments as a "silly" subject in your usual empathetic, concise, clear, knowledgable, humorous and well researched manner. Even providing pictorial and written evidence. I personally see nothing "silly" in anything historical and before you addressed it in your usual classy way I was going to ask about menstruation. As a female, a nurse, a mother etc I see nothing prurient in discussing these aspects of life, same as most women through the ages I assume. I love how you approach subjects with just the right amount of humour without being licencious in any way and the way you treat the people of the past ( our relatives here ) with respect. Imho the underwear found recently does look like it could hold some form of sanitary protection in place and be tied at the sides. My grandmother who was born in 1907 used to tell me that she had to use rags held in place with a belt contraption and she came from an affluent Sheffield cutlery manufacturing family, so was fortunate to have had the most up to date protection available. I think we are very lucky today!!!!!!! This was another incredibly interesting lecture and proves "history" should encompass every aspect of life one can think of from massive power changing wars to underwear!! In fact as an ordinary subject back in the day I'm sure clothing would probably have been more relevant to my daily life. Stay safe❤
LOL My dad used to call them "over the shoulder boulder holders" too! Another one: Double-barrel slingshot. :D Thank you for making me laugh right off the bat!
@Margaret Gust I'm willing to bet you don't see the humor in much of anything. Some people look for reasons to laugh, others look for reasons to be offended. I think we've all identified ourselves now. Have a nice day.
Re: the question of menstruation - I can't remember where I saw it. but on some video or other there showed a "menses cup" which was a slim silver vessel like a flattish pouch with a wider open top with the edge rolled back, that was supposed to be fastened by strings or ribbon up to a waist belt. It was supposed to fit lengthwise between the legs, with the genitalia comfortably accommodated for the purpose. It seemed a reasonable idea.
Thank you for another very interesting video. The youtube site priorattire shows how people dressed from the underwear to the outer garments. To me the "knickers" that you show remind me of a sanitary belt that many of us older ladies will have experienced!
There is a lot of evidence of photo shopping in "tight lacing" Victorian photos. I believe the pic shown is known to have altered to make the waist look smaller
There aren’t a lot of physical examples of the damage of tight lacing. Photos were faked, reports were faked, doctors were bribed. Women’s health was even worse than it is now, and actual medical ailments were blamed on their clothing by doctors to hide the doctors ignorance. It was rare for a doctor to examine a female patient not fully clothed! Asthma, heart murmur, anxiety, and other “modern” illnesses were dismissed as “women’s complaints.” 😔
Those extreme images were altered-many times you can just make out the real waist. Using a black background and then filling in with black ink was common.
I actually found out about how you wear your chemise pulled through back to front, tucked in, under your split drawers, from reading period porn. It works well with corsetry, and keeps you quite modest in the advent of any untoward accident exposing your undergarments.
Great history lesson. I've always been fascinated by those huge lace collars that one sees in so many portraits. I would love it if you could explore the way these collars were devised and worn, as well as their social function. Pretty-please?
About 30 years ago we decided to dress up for my mom's 50th birthday. My hairdresser was an expert in historical hairdos and she fixed my hair as Marie Antoinette had it, before she starting wearing the ships and other stuff in her hair. I rented a dress and it had those side pads to make my hips look wider. I really enjoyed looking totally different than usual:) My hairdresser also used me at a hair show where I was Madame de Lamballe and I wore a beautiful green gown and tried not to think about the fact that this woman had her head cut off. Now I'm too old for all that but it is something I really enjoyed and I'm glad I did:) You would not believe how hard it is to sleep with your hair like that and how hard it was to wash my hair afterwards and get out all the grey:) I love history and the best has been to research my own ancestors.
When I was a teenager in the 60s, sanitary pad were attached to a belt worn around the waist, with a strap in front and back to tie to long tabs in the front and back of the pads. Your underpants went over this and did nothing to hold the pad. A few years later, the pads with adhesive strips came on the market that stuck to your panties. I would imagine women in earlier times used the belt method to hold rags or towels in place.
I thought immediately that the waist tied underpants were for menstrual issues even before your later scholarly discussion. I am 60, it made me think of the belts with sanitary pads used in my youth before tampons and adhesive pads were an option.
Same here. I'm 62, I absolutely wore a sanitary belt with a pad for the first year or so of my menstruation until something more modern came along and until I was old enough to buy my own sanitary products behind my uneducated, puritanical parent's backs.
Having read more than my fair share of historical romances I had figured out the use of several of these garments. However, I still had questions which you have answered. Thanks so much! 🤗
Dr Kat. You are too young to remember feminine belts. They went around the waste and had little garter like attachments that a girl would attach a feminine pad to. You didn't need to wear underwear with those. I bet women in the past had belts that they tied rags to. The rags probably went between their legs and had enough extra length to attach to a belt with garters. There were no feminine pads with tape on them when I was a girl.
I learnt of feminine belts at the age where I was expecting to start menstruating from a first edition of the Judy Blume book "are you there god, it's me, margaret" and was incredibly distraught when I couldn't find them in the hygiene aisle of the local asda in 2009, my mum soon set me straight but it was a bit of a trauma for little 12 year old me😂 at least in literature the idea of sanitary belts lives on for posterity
Yes I wore those when I first started my periods in fact I also had one which was like a stretchy corset with the metal holders with buttons underneath to trap the tape on the feminine pad - a bit like a stocking corset Both styles were independent of underwear - although of course underwear was worn as well
Oh gosh I remember being handed one at a young age told here put it in top draw you will need it soon ...omg I remember looking at it in horror thinking ..this is my future 😱 no one was that great at explanations in those days till you actually screamed for help 😷🌍👍🇦🇺
You are a treasure Dr Kat. I agree with you that it is difficult to imagine the chasity belt being used. However, as an old women who has seen a lot. I never underestimate mans inhumanity to man, or in this case to woman.
I can't stop giggling at the idea of a Tutor man, dressed to the nines, rooting around in his codpiece for change. It's the Tudor equivalent of keeping valuables in your bra! (Also, love the channel, am marathoning your vids)
the other option for ladies going commando during menstruation. perhaps a belt and linen sewed with loops.. some of the older generation may remember thats how it worked in the 70s I believe. Looped pads that went on a belt round the waist
It was a soft elastic belt with a garter hook in the front and back on which you looped your sanitary pad. And, no commando in the sixties. That is, if we went commando we'd never tell! Not amongst my convent -bred group of young ladies! Time does go by quickly.
My mom had been a costume designer--so I would attend theater productions or watch a movie--I would get a lecture on underwear. Usually how it was wrong.
Wouldn't it make more sense to think that a chastity belt was actually developed by noble women for their own defense if they wanted to protect their virtue for short periods of time, like if under imminent invasion threat or while traveling through hostile areas? Just given how it is worn it wouldn't make sense for it to be something a husband put on a wife, not when he could leave people behind to simply watch her as was the common practice, but it could easily be worn for a journey or the like for one's own protection from assault. Considering the fact that rape could be used to force a woman into all sorts of things, and the fact that rape-x hadn't been invented yet, I'm willing to bet both Eleanor of Aquitaine and Mary Queen of Scots would have used them when traveling if they'd known of their existence. I also get the feeling this is one of those things that's been skewed in historical context by the "male gaze", just like the story of Medusa recieving her snakes as a punishment instead of as protection against being raped in the future, or the image of Cleopatra VII as a seductress instead of an academic. I know I would opt to wear one during that time period while traveling, especially if anyone could gain anything by legally compromising me.
What an interesting thought...I'm not sure I would wear one, depending on style/comfort. But I like the idea of defense. Maybe we can put spikes on them too. 🤣
Yes, I've heard this stated as the real reason for such belts many times. In times of siege or if your husband went off to battle nearby etc you'd put one of these on in the event you lost and the invaders were on your doorstep, to try and stop yourself being raped. It's something only the noble ladies would have owned and was perhaps very rarely used, but widely known that a lady could wear one in an attempt to deter anyone willing to try :/
Your videos always come out when I need them. I am currently writing my MA dissertation on women's underwear. Stays in the mid-late 18th and early 19th centuries.
THANK YOU for discussing the rarity of tightlacing! I have to wear a corset pretty often; they're stealthable and less hot than the bulky back brace I wear at home and in cooler months. So many people associate corsets with either... sexy times or pain. Seeing people faint in movies and stuff has given a lot of people a passing notion that corsets were always, or were supposed to be, really uncomfortable or painful. If your corset hurts you, it's not the right size or fit. I'm petite and have a ridiculously short waist, about five and a half inches. The first corset I got wasn't a longline, but it was long enough that when I sat, it cut into my abdomen and sometimes even my thighs! That's not how corsets are supposed to feel; it didn't fit correctly! Gah, it's a pet peeve of mine. Right up there with people thinking we only use 10% of our brains, and we have so much untapped potential. 🙄 But in the case of corsets, people assumed it was some kind of self-flagellation thing, like I was a masochist or something. Or if they found out I wore them, they assumed it was to somehow attract a guy (without tightlacing or waist training, with it being stealthed under my clothes?). Corsets and stays lasted a long time because they were GOOD at what they did, and fulfilled a specific function. The bashing of an object because of how it makes people feel is always odd, and in this situation, their assumptions are usually wrong to begin with. 🤷🏻♀️
I agree that the chastity belt was rarely, if ever, used and only as a form of torture or punishment. As for the idea that medieval women didn't wear some form of "knickers"...I cant believe that. I think it would have been considered scandalous if a woman wasn't wearing "knickers". It also makes sense to have a way to keep the menstrual items in place somehow. The Lendburg "pants" seem to be shaped differently from pictorial representations of men's brais to suggest they were made for women. However, they could be unisex for all I know. Awesome video! It was nice to get the mental exercise this morning.
Thank you again for a fascinating episode. I majored in history and minored in textiles (even did a research paper on stays corsets)! How about an episode on Sir Thomas Moore? I’m quite conflicted on the man ;)
Abby Cox has a great video about historic methods of dealing with periods and tests out the period apron idea. It's very interesting. Thank you for your informative and fun videos.
Hi, Dr Kat. It is August 2021 and I am in Victoria Australia in lockdown 6. I have watched several of your videos and I am enjoying them so much, especially right now.
Thanks for this video on material culture and discussions on the many layers of clothing. I discovered your channel about 3 months ago, just love all the topics. The in-depth ones of various Tudor/ Elizabethan nobles are my favorites, besides this one. Could you make a video on each layer separately, could be a clothing series of videos. How people wore the many fashions helps us understand how clothing really showed outwards, who you were in society. Social class and sumptuary laws dictated what was worn, how many yards it was used, what materials were used, and acceptable colors. While watching this, I am sewing doll-sized Spanish farthingales. Using hemp cord for the stiffening of the channels in green cotton. Red silk taffeta as the base and green casings of cotton over the hemp cord. The dolls have high-necked smocks with ruffs, bum rolls, the in-progress farthingales, stays are up later this week. In a few weeks, the outer layer will be velvet gowns red, green, blue, black in 1560, Spanish, French, English, and German respectively, Using Vencellio's woodcuts as the basis for the style of the fashions.
What a fun video thanks . I think there will have been female knickers or equivalent for a very long time . I know we have grown up with it but it seems comfortable and practical
You finally answered all my questions on historic underwear. Thank you. I have tried for years to find out but either no one knew or they thought it was an inappropriate topic.
I found this episode really interesting. As a fashion student back in the early 1980s we visited our local art gallery. There we did life classes and drew each other wearing some of the costumes. I physically recall being shown a pair of those Victorian knickers and wondering what that was all about.Thank you so much I thoroughly enjoyed this episode
Enjoy these videos as always! Fascinating topic! I think you left out the Amplificator, which is a garment that is similar to a bra or an undershirt for women, with lots of ruffles sewn onto the front, to make one's bosom look larger than it is, under the upper body clothing. I believe it was worn in the 1800's and maybe early 1900's. I think I read somewhere that gentlemen in the 1700's and 1800's would also wear the equivalent of shap-ewear, similar to a corset, under their garments- if a longer, thinner silhouette was desired. Certainly this topic is still interesting now, as we see underwear continuing to evolve, as far as materials and construction is concerned. It's come a long way! And then as now, if you wear undergarments that are constructed of breathable fabrics, that fit correctly, and aren't meant to deform the body into some unnatural shape, they can be both comfortable and flattering. Of course they aren't magical garments and can't turn Tess Halliday into Audrey Hepburn. I wonder if underwear in former times also involved a bit of wishful thinking and fantasy elements in them, as some undergarments do today (i.e. Fredericks of Hollywood.) How dull, if they did not!
I just adore your channel. I always sing along to the opening tune, and find myself humming it throughout my day. Always interesting, informative, engaging and entertaining. Seriously, I love what you're doing.
Lol never thought I would have listened to an underwear topic but found it interesting! The chastity belt topic was right on the money! If it was worn once never again. Thank you for your dissertations.
Bodies, stays, or corsets - were not uncomfortable. I love listening to you, but in addition, I would suggest also watching information on YT with Bernadette Banner, Abby Cox, Morgan Donner, PriorAttire etc, and other garment historians. Bernadette Banner did a great video on the pocket, which had an embroidered dumpster on fire for 2020. That bra you showed, and the 'underpants' were both re-created by Abby Cox, and you can see her video on it too. Pretty interesting! Thank you for your accuracy on the corset discussion. It was meant to support the weight of garments. Women would not have worn them for centuries if it weren't supportive. Great video!!! Thank you!
Dr. Kat I’d love a video dedicated to how women dealt with menstruation in the past. What did they do for cramps? Or even a video on what we consider basic hygienic rituals like shaving. I often wonder what women of the past did in regards to this. How was body hair viewed on a woman? Did they have similar beauty standards to us? I wonder how much time would have been dedicated to “upkeep” if they did. I think it could be an interesting topic.
A knee length or longer shift of linen I believe is quite able to wick away any light flow or moisture from between the legs. The idea of using an apron looped between the legs under petticoats for more absorbency is when needed seems possible, as tried by Abby Cox recently on you-tube.
I found the information about how women dealt with their periods pre-sanitary napkins in Victoria Lincoln's book "A Private Disgrace: Lizzie Borden by Daylight," very interesting although Lincoln does not mention how the Birdseye linen folded pads were held in place. I suspect a forerunner of the sanitary belt, which was simply a circle of elastic with tabs to which the napkin was fastened.
Hi Dr Kat, greetings from Canada 🇨🇦. I happened upon your channel a couple of weeks ago. I’ve been enjoying your content. Very educational and entertaining. Thank you 😊
This is a channel where I hit the like button before the show begins. Never disappointed! Top quality! It is said the curved seam we are accustomed to in trousers today is a relatively late development. I have some hand sewn clothing consisting of dresses and matching pantaloons, perhaps from Afghanistan or India. The pantaloons begin like a short skirt and legs are attached at a point low enough to avoid chafing delicate areas. It is also said that medieval hose, stockings, etc. were not knitted but were made from woven fabrics cut on the bias. It is suggested that knitting came in rather late and originated in the Middle East. I find that hard to believe since I'd think curious people could invent the techniques. Nevertheless, Scandinavians did and still do 'naelbinding' which is a form of weaving with a large sewing needle. It is very different and more time consuming than knitting. The leather-looking "chastity" belt on the left makes me wonder if it was intended to be used for mortification of the flesh by monks or other deeply religious devotees. Some of those practices were rather extreme. I could actually see the contraption pictured, being used on a man. Although I can also see the value of the design as a deterrent for males if used as an actual chastity belt. IMO hygiene would be so horrific....as mentioned.....that I think these belts must be more legend than anything. Maybe they were sex toys of some sort for a bit of roll playing. Knights going off to war, many times for a year or longer, would hope to leave their women pregnant so the whole concept is fairly impractical.
Thank you so much! It's easy to get distracted by the handsome--or not so handsome--outer clothing of the past. This is something I've always wondered about.
LOL so Henry's codpiece is like a modern day wonderbra...stuffed with chicken fillets! Poor King Henry was soo desperate to prove that he was fertile... it was sad to see. I fell in love with the embroidery on the lady's pocket! Wow!
My heart just breaks for the young Mary and her father’s cruelty and the viciousness of Anne Boleyn’s treatment that visited itself upon Elizabeth during Mary’s reign. Henry had so much to answer for!
"Going commando". Never thought of it that way because all of my older relatives (1850's on) knew something of "underwear" - bloomers and then the thoroughly "modern" panties. Thank You for such and entertaining and educational video.
Please comment. Admittedly, I've only been on a horse once and my 69 hours of history in uni never went that deep. Buf, I have to wonder if a codpiece didn't also serve as a "cup".
I admit that, as a clothing historian, I avoided watching this video for a few hours because it's been my experience that non-experts (even when they are professional historians) tend to misinterpret historical clothing. But Dr. Kat, I should not have worried! You did not fall into any of the sensationalist traps or salacious myths. Although I think that justifying underpants for women as a feminine hygiene product is incorrect, there are many clothing historians who disagree with my assessment. And you present everything with your usual attention to facts and openness to the possibilities. Brava!
Chastity belts remind me of the”Man in the Iron Mask”. Doctors say no one could have worn an iron mask for long without death due to infection from ingrown hairs and general dirt. Same for the chastity belt. I don’t believe they were ever used but if so, only for very short periods.
Also worth noting regarding the pictures of tightlacing, many of these show evidence of being edited to show a smaller waist than the person actually had. It was their version of photoshop. Karolina Zebrowska has a really informative video on it. There is a whole community of historical costumers, some of whom have specialised academic qualifications, who have made many videos regarding the history of clothing if people want to explore this subject further.
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
“Hi, you’re very welcome” is such a comforting greeting
I swear Dr. Kat could say "...and today we're talking about egg shells," and I'd be like "Hell yes!" As a history nerd and an info maniac Dr. Kat's channel has become a serious happy place. I appreciate her research, her presentation style, her perspective and humility. I am a long time lurker but today I needed a Dr. Kat video and here it is -- so I just wanted to thank her for her content!
yes! i love these presentation style channels and you can always tell how much research goes into the videos :)
I love Dr. Kat. She’s brilliant, her speaking voice is great and her subjects are really interesting.
I’m glad you mentioned periods! I can’t imagine how so many clothing historians don’t discuss this when it is such a huge part of what we deal with
Another video I watched claimed that women wore no undergarments like drawers and merely let the menses, er.. flow--but surely that would have stained the chemise and then those outer garments (as any woman whose pad has leaked can attest).
I can recommend the channel "priorattire", she covers these sorts of things :-)
@@MartaEzis Does she? She covers how to sit on a bedpan but I’ve never seen her mention periods at all
@@jarmen49 I don’t think they bled as much as we do-but considering they didn’t have washing machines and clothes were expensive-why wouldn’t they use rags?
We didn’t used to have much in the way of periods because women would be pregnant
In the "Tudor Monastery Farm", archaeologist Peter Ginn demonstrates the clothing worn by the men of the peasant class, how it's fastened-literally "sewn" together, top and bottom by the use of laces. Peter does an excellent, semi-comedic job, demonstrating how his tunic and hose are worn..laced together. Definitely worth a watch.
The codpiece is like a wallet...it did after all...wait for it........hold the family jewels!!!! LOL!!!
🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
Dang it! You beat me!
: D
Dying 😂🤣😭
So funny
No one will *ever* wonder what we wore for underwear in this century.
That's for sure. 😂
Camando!
I did Civil War re-enactments for a while, and at one of the first events I attended it started raining and we were standing at attention for the National Anthem and then a volley of musket fire to top off the festivities. My now grown daughter (who was 3 at the time) was in her brand new CW era replica dress, had a little hat, etc. but no umbrella, and the rain was unexpected. I had everything period correct, even the undergarments, and of course underneath it all these things are crotch-less (terribly scandalous!) but very handy when needing to use the porta john in a hoop skirt. My daughter decided to duck under my skirt to keep dry. Just as things were going quiet just before we re-joined the parade line I heard my daughter whisper, "Mommy, I can see your pee pee"! I literally almost swooned! rofl Fortunately the only ones who heard were the ladies of my group, but I was mortified just the same!
Oh, gosh, that is hilarious! Thanks for telling that story!
👏🤣
LOL! You win! ::hands over trophy::
HD Warrior р😂🤣😂‼️
I wear a back brace every night to treat a spinal deformity and the brace is very much like a pair of stays. I can say first hand, they are very comfortable, provide a lot of support, and give a great shape. Much better than a bra in my opinion😂
Thank you, especially for the bit on chastity belts. Far too many younger men think it plausible without stopping to think just how deadly such a belt would be. Instead of the princess in the tower motif, the reality is the wife would remain to run the castle, lands, raise the children etc. For that she needed to be healthy, active in the manner of dePizan.
Yes but there is the very old joke about the wife whose husband puts her in one, goes off to wherever, and within minutes of his departure, the wife's lover turns up with a spare key or a cooperative locksmith, to get her right out of it. Probably some truth in there somewhere....
Lesley Schultz b
Also, how is the Master of the House to be sure that he has not left his wife in the early stages of pregnancy before leaving for a crusade that would certainly last beyond her term?
Dr Kat has a far more sympathetic view towards men than I do. Hell yes, I think they were used.
Young men in the Victoria era, perhaps.
There is a lot of controversy regarding how harmful stays/corsets actually were. Most of the pictures of victorian ladies with miniature waists (i.e. minute 12:56 ) were actually edited with the tools of the time. For example, the picture shown in said minute shows a woman on a bare, black background, which allowed people to paint with black ink the surroundings of the woman to make this very small waist. If you look at most of the pictures of said time that depict a woman with a small waist, you'll notice that the background where the waist is, it's almost always bare or very simple, sometimes the waist is even botched because of bad editing.
The notion that stays were harmful started around the suffragette movement... by men. Men used whatever was associated with women to harm them.
Now, of course stays have negative sides and can be used to harm your body if you don't use them correctly, but so can bras.
Anyhow, if anyone is interested in said subject, Karolina Żebrowska has an amazing and informative video about it that I would recommend.
Morgan Donner did an excellent video on her experience wearing a corset for week. Bernadette Banner has a great video on Victorian corsets that includes fascinating info on her experience growing up in a corset used to support her scoliosis.
They also edited to give women very small upper arms in many Tudor images--unlikely with many layers beneath.
Lol I just commented on that. All those super tight lace images are just fetish art for porn.
@@yohtan mmmm I think it depends. Some of those pictures were corset ads or simply to brag about your tiny waist with your friends. Small waists were, after all, the beauty standard back then.
Karolina Zebrowska's HOW VICTORIANS AND EDWARDIANS FAKED THEIR TINY WAISTS!!!1 ruclips.net/video/ZXbcPgfiB0Q/видео.html
The feminine belts went away when I was quite young. I really missed them. The pads stayed in place. And in a pinch you could use those pads to shine your shoes.
"When I say codpiece, this is what springs to mind." You made me chuckle.
I would like my new text "ringtone" to be Dr. Kat saying "over the shoulder bolder holder". I love the history here but the jokes are also 10/10.
When i was a teenager many moons ago they were known as, ‘upper decker wobble checkers’.
Very interesting. My 4 x great grandfather, who had the wonderful name Ebenezer Tough, was a staymaker working in Hungerford Market - now the site of Charing Cross station. This was about 1780 to about 1799, he came from Leith, Edinburgh where his brother and two nephews were also staymakers. One of my great grandmothers wore 'split drawers' and when she died there was an argument about her meagre leavings between two of her daughters. She died in 1956, well into her 80s after bearing some 15 children!
Already a dislike?!?
I guess they have their skivies in a twist.
I think that there is a troll/robot that snoops about clicking dislike just because they can. This troll/robot probably hasn’t even watched the video.
Oh, they're probably just stuck in a chastity belt. ;)
The good thing is, it actually doesn't hurt Dr. Kat in any way. It just equals more engagement on her video and channel.
Dr. K: 1 Troll: 0
Oooh, controversy in the historical garments community!!!
@@patriciamccool5243 Troll/Robot probably wouldn't understand it.
Or knickers in a knot!
I watch priorattire’s YT channel-she’s a historical re-enactor who makes her own clothes as well as for a living. She has videos demonstrating getting dressed in all the layers of various historical eras, and even has an excellent one demonstrating (discreetly, of course!) how women would relieve themselves while wearing the voluminous gowns of the Victorian era.
Excellent and informative channel. Comments sections are usually very informative, too. Love her work!
Yes I am a big fan of her work.
A woman does not actually need to squat to take a pee, crap yes, same as a man. But a woman can pee upright,like a man. No idea where this squatting thing came from.Make sure your clothing is out of the way and you are discreet and you can pee by a tree, just like your boyfriend.He might not like it of course. just spread your legs Keep your underwear out of the way and go for it if you pick soft soil it is gone Do you think the Tudors had ladies loos? Women need re education! LOL
@Nicky L I am a pseudonym-Therefore I am whatever people perceive.
Thanks for that information
My grandmother, European-born in the late 1800's, had drawers (bloomers) with a split like those in the photo. As a child, I wondered what good they could be.
On the subject of waist training - many of the photographs of women with super tiny waists were actually edited. In the picture in this video, you can see how the background is far darker and plainer between her arms and body, as compared to outside her arms. This was achieved by painting on the photograph. Early forerunner of Photoshop!
Karolina Zebrowska did a video on this subject, and demonstrated how easy it was to fake a photo.
Oh Ok, they faked it, but why? The same reason that they photo shop women now? To make them feel lnferior., somehow lesser because they don't reach these impossible aims? And actually they did not fake it.Women did and still do deform their bodies to achieve these total contortions. They were not 'Fake' Whatever your rather pathetic deperate for attention never heard of lady says, sorry. I did look her up.I had to. How Sad!
Hogwash McTurnip who hurt you?
@@BlackStrawberry79 No one sweetheart. Care to share about who hurt You? What an odd reply
Hogwash McTurnip drop the filthy attitude kid
@@hogwashmcturnip8930 why am I not surprised that I had blocked you already?
I love how sassy you get with your commentary in this one, definitely let out a chuckle at work while watching. Thank you for the video, I'm really interested in topics like this about how people used to live in general.
Even today, I LOVE any clothing that has pockets!!!! This year I purchased several summer sundresses that have pockets. WINNING!
Bernadette Banner made an AMAZING video on corsetry and misconceptions. And, actually, the photo you shared of “tight lacing” is altered and is not genuine. If you look between the woman’s elbows you can see the “back drop”, that is speckled and reflecting light around her outline, is blacked out. There was a LOT of photo shopped photos, from early days, to show exaggerated waists, extended hips and busts, and even altered hair! If it looks too extreme to be real, it probably isn’t.
When i saw the underwear that was found, my first thought was that it held fabric rags during menstruation. The shape and size suggests in fit close to the body, unlike baggy bloomers or drawers.
I thought the same thing! I think it was for menstruating women. I can't see men being bothered with underwear.
@@lisad7854 Especially with a fly or cod piece. It would be irritating for men to get underwear out of the way when wearing a cod piece to be able to use the facilities and I doubt most would want the bother.
My grandmother, who was born in 1899, proudly spoke of her 18-inch waist when she was a young woman and I can remember being fascinated as she pulled herself into an extraordinary corset when I was a child. She was never a particularly vain woman so I think that this practice was more widespread in Victorian Australia then you indicate.
When I saw the "panties" in question, my first thought was old style sanitation belt. When I came of that age, sanitation belts were not really being used, but for some reason, they were still teaching teen girls about them. But I can see how these panties would be worn (probably very comfortably) by a man. Chasity belt, I could never imagine them as anything other than a torture device. Were they use? Well, far worse items of torture were deployed to scare and actually torture, so why not this? I truly pity anyone who was put in one.
It might seem like a small detail, but always before when I saw decorative edging on sleeves like that in medieval paintings, I assumed the black represented the negative space in lace; I never thought that it was tiny black embroidery! Amazing! Thank you for that, Dr. Kat. Your topic was right on time for me; I'm actually working on handstitching a medieval style linen shift at the moment. Great video!
Dr Kat, I have always been in awe of your knowledge and educated discussions of historical events and people, but when you wander into the area of clothing you are in my territory. I began researching, studying, reproducing, and wearing historical style clothing as an avocation in 1991 and continue to this day. While no expert myself in this area I can refer you to several who live in England whose academic and practical knowledge far outstrips my own wildest ambitions. The 2008 discovery of the 14th century "bra" was very exciting for me. The existence of the "bras" and the "underpants" have and, I suspect, will continue to be a subject of controversy. In all my research I have never come across any discussion of what the either the finders or the subsequent expert studies made of them.
After perusing the available photos I formed a theory of my own. They are made out of linen. That means they are eminently washable and fairly quick drying. However, the simplicity of the design and its lack of ornamentation suggests they were not the property of a high-born person. My own guess is that these were meant to be worn by either lower-class women or possibly nuns! How practical a garment would that bra be to wear under a habit? The design of the underpants is of particular interest since they do not resemble anything worn anywhere else that that I've read about. Did they belong to a man? I don't think so. First, even in a poor person's circumstances it's unlikely that they'd be put together with women's clothing for practical purposes, but more importantly they would be terribly inconvenient in the case of an urgent call of nature. Their unlikely design suggests to me--as you also said--a means of holding some form of absorbent protection against either incontinence (an especially common after-effect of multiple pregnancies) or menstruation.
Your discussion of corset tightlacing deserves the dismissal you give it. Extant photos showing deformed figures like the example shown are usually altered by the precursor of Photoshop--the airbrush, or else they simply painted over the image. The popular fiction that women had ribs removed in order to make their waists smaller is quite impossible given the lack of anesthesia, the primitive or non-existent surgery of the time, and the high probability of infection. Some very few women might have engaged in the torturous practice of waist "training"--a practice I personally lump together with the Chinese custom of foot-binding--which may have deformed some of the lower ribs. I suspect that such a practices causes severe health problems. However, its' true that a few extra-squishy ladies can force their bodies into a less extreme shape. Human beings do have a soft area just below the ribs, but the amount that it can be compressed varies very widely, two to four inches is about all that you can do and still be functional. Most of us simply do not squish that small.
I have worn both 16th and 19th century corsets. The earlier garment (I chose to make a corded pair o' bodies, lacing fore and aft and eschewing the busk) does nothing much to compress at all. I can compress up to three inches in my 1870s reproduction--but it's VERY uncomfortable to do it. For long re-enactment days where I will be very busy I generally don't like to go smaller than two inches.
As a side note, no medical corset prescribed by my doctors ever gave me such perfect back support.
Finally, a comment on the crotchless undergarments such as drawers, pantalettes, et.al. It may be amusing, but trying to take down your underwear when it's stuffed under your corset while simultaniously wrestling a hoopskirt, two or three petticoats, and one or two outer skirts is at the very best highly impractical or at worst, utterly disastrous depending upon the sense of urgency. I find the concept that full coverage undies were the mark of the prostitute very amusing, considering the inconvenience required to ply the trade.
Love this video.
Wonderful and informative comment. A friend of mine did some historic costume lectures and she mentioned 'split drawers' such as shown in this video. No sewn crotch. Here in the western U.S., public toilets were a late invention. My friend said when women went to town, if they had to pee, they just went into the alley and placed their feet wide apart.
As I mentioned in my comment above, the curved seam in modern trousers is a rather late invention so underpants, knickers, whatever, as well as male attire was rather crude and many times resembling the breach cloths of primitive societies, according to my sources.
Also, a lot of the court costumes were too unmanageable for a woman to have any natural body functions. In Versailles there were special, large porcelain cups a woman could place under the many skirts, farthingales, etc. Or ladies in waiting could help her. It is said modern people frequently buy these antique cups, thinking they are for use at table, such as gravy boats.
Wow you are amazing, do you have you tube channel
Thank you for beating me to this. I've been putting off watching this video for hours because I find that non-costume experts (although valid historical researchers) tend to misunderstand and misinterpret historical clothing, especially when it comes to the titillating subject of underwear.
@@gracienoid44 I regret I do not have a RUclips channel. However, if you want to see some wonderful, informative, and entertaining videos by true experts, I highly recommend Bernadette Banner, Morgan Donner, and
Karolina Żebrowska. They are well-informed historians plus Morgan and Bernadette are also re-creators who take you along on their journeys of creation. I also recommend Cathy Hay as a highly inspirational speaker who just might tempt you into trying it yourself.
@@annalisette5897 I've worn Victorian and Tudor-era costumes, and usually for very long days. Trust me when I say the split-drawers are a godsend. Even though they're not HISTORICALLY ACCURATE (sorry, too many fashion police out there for me to be able to avoid the disclaimer) for Renaissance wear, they are a godsend for comfort at any kind of costume event.
I personally agree that some sort of drawers or pants would have been helpful during menstruation but given bulky and heavy skirts would have been an impediment to using a chamber pot at other times. So maybe drawers were worn only when necessary. I remember my grandmother talking about wearing split drawers when she was a girl so that they didn't need to be removed each time. She was born in 1892.
As I understand it, and I may be wrong, women used the equivalent of tampons for a very long time.Wads of whatever was absorbent enough A cork in a bottle! Ancient Egyptians used papryus, others used wool I think it only changed with church interference.Now there is a surprise! By the way they still do in the Amazon and such places.
@@hogwashmcturnip8930 That is a surprise!
Why? Women have had to deal with this since time immemorial, do you really think they waited until Dr Whites?
@@hogwashmcturnip8930 My grandmother was shown by a friend of hers how to use a piece of rope and rags for her time of the month, much like the belts of my era, late 60's early 70's before stick to the pants came out. 2 Slip knots; one front, one back to hold the ends of the rag; and tied on one side or the other. She washed her own rags out by hand too. She was from a fairly well off family in Mexico so if there had been other options, I'm sure she would have used them. Emigrated to the States when she was 13 and was naturalized before 1928. I use split drawers when I dress at a local ren fair. Helps with chaffing and easy to use the modern rest room(privy), especially with hoops.
@@cynthiahowe8697 @Cynthia Howe My mother and grandmother used pieces of terry towelling, that would be washed and re used. But I have heard of other cultures where women used plant fibres and similar to create a plug - a tampon, effectively. No idea if it is true It would need to be an absorbent fibre, cotton maybe?
Thankyou for this Dr Kat.
You approached what a certain person described here in the comments as a "silly" subject in your usual empathetic, concise, clear, knowledgable, humorous and well researched manner. Even providing pictorial and written evidence.
I personally see nothing "silly" in anything historical and before you addressed it in your usual classy way I was going to ask about menstruation. As a female, a nurse, a mother etc I see nothing prurient in discussing these aspects of life, same as most women through the ages I assume.
I love how you approach subjects with just the right amount of humour without being licencious in any way and the way you treat the people of the past ( our relatives here ) with respect.
Imho the underwear found recently does look like it could hold some form of sanitary protection in place and be tied at the sides.
My grandmother who was born in 1907 used to tell me that she had to use rags held in place with a belt contraption and she came from an affluent Sheffield cutlery manufacturing family, so was fortunate to have had the most up to date protection available. I think we are very lucky today!!!!!!!
This was another incredibly interesting lecture and proves "history" should encompass every aspect of life one can think of from massive power changing wars to underwear!! In fact as an ordinary subject back in the day I'm sure clothing would probably have been more relevant to my daily life.
Stay safe❤
LOL My dad used to call them "over the shoulder boulder holders" too! Another one: Double-barrel slingshot. :D Thank you for making me laugh right off the bat!
Also under the butt nut hut
@@roxzannezook3269 lol I'm dying here; never heard that before! Good one!
We called them that when I was a kid also! :-)
Thank you Mr. Benny Hill.
@Margaret Gust I'm willing to bet you don't see the humor in much of anything. Some people look for reasons to laugh, others look for reasons to be offended. I think we've all identified ourselves now. Have a nice day.
Re: the question of menstruation - I can't remember where I saw it. but on some video or other there showed a "menses cup" which was a slim silver vessel like a flattish pouch with a wider open top with the edge rolled back, that was supposed to be fastened by strings or ribbon up to a waist belt. It was supposed to fit lengthwise between the legs, with the genitalia comfortably accommodated for the purpose. It seemed a reasonable idea.
Thank you for another very interesting video. The youtube site priorattire shows how people dressed from the underwear to the outer garments. To me the "knickers" that you show remind me of a sanitary belt that many of us older ladies will have experienced!
Please do a video on shoes or foot covers! Thank you for your videos,I certainly enjoy them
The codpiece analysis is sending me 😂😂😂
There is a lot of evidence of photo shopping in "tight lacing" Victorian photos. I believe the pic shown is known to have altered to make the waist look smaller
There's a lot of pathology samples that show it did happen. With devastating effects on the body.
There aren’t a lot of physical examples of the damage of tight lacing. Photos were faked, reports were faked, doctors were bribed. Women’s health was even worse than it is now, and actual medical ailments were blamed on their clothing by doctors to hide the doctors ignorance. It was rare for a doctor to examine a female patient not fully clothed! Asthma, heart murmur, anxiety, and other “modern” illnesses were dismissed as “women’s complaints.” 😔
Those extreme images were altered-many times you can just make out the real waist. Using a black background and then filling in with black ink was common.
I actually found out about how you wear your chemise pulled through back to front, tucked in, under your split drawers, from reading period porn. It works well with corsetry, and keeps you quite modest in the advent of any untoward accident exposing your undergarments.
Great history lesson. I've always been fascinated by those huge lace collars that one sees in so many portraits. I would love it if you could explore the way these collars were devised and worn, as well as their social function. Pretty-please?
About 30 years ago we decided to dress up for my mom's 50th birthday. My hairdresser was an expert in historical hairdos and she fixed my hair as Marie Antoinette had it, before she starting wearing the ships and other stuff in her hair. I rented a dress and it had those side pads to make my hips look wider. I really enjoyed looking totally different than usual:) My hairdresser also used me at a hair show where I was Madame de Lamballe and I wore a beautiful green gown and tried not to think about the fact that this woman had her head cut off. Now I'm too old for all that but it is something I really enjoyed and I'm glad I did:) You would not believe how hard it is to sleep with your hair like that and how hard it was to wash my hair afterwards and get out all the grey:) I love history and the best has been to research my own ancestors.
I really adore that you greet people, and say that we are very welcome. Thank you.
If any man ever tried to make me wear a chastity belt, he'd find himself a eunuch. Yuck!
This lady makes everything fascinating.
When I was a teenager in the 60s, sanitary pad were attached to a belt worn around the waist, with a strap in front and back to tie to long tabs in the front and back of the pads. Your underpants went over this and did nothing to hold the pad. A few years later, the pads with adhesive strips came on the market that stuck to your panties. I would imagine women in earlier times used the belt method to hold rags or towels in place.
I thought immediately that the waist tied underpants were for menstrual issues even before your later scholarly discussion. I am 60, it made me think of the belts with sanitary pads used in my youth before tampons and adhesive pads were an option.
Same here. I'm 62, I absolutely wore a sanitary belt with a pad for the first year or so of my menstruation until something more modern came along and until I was old enough to buy my own sanitary products behind my uneducated, puritanical parent's backs.
Having read more than my fair share of historical romances I had figured out the use of several of these garments. However, I still had questions which you have answered. Thanks so much! 🤗
Dr Kat. You are too young to remember feminine belts. They went around the waste and had little garter like attachments that a girl would attach a feminine pad to. You didn't need to wear underwear with those. I bet women in the past had belts that they tied rags to. The rags probably went between their legs and had enough extra length to attach to a belt with garters. There were no feminine pads with tape on them when I was a girl.
I learnt of feminine belts at the age where I was expecting to start menstruating from a first edition of the Judy Blume book "are you there god, it's me, margaret" and was incredibly distraught when I couldn't find them in the hygiene aisle of the local asda in 2009, my mum soon set me straight but it was a bit of a trauma for little 12 year old me😂 at least in literature the idea of sanitary belts lives on for posterity
They made me wear one in the hospital, after having my first child in the early 80s. Soon as I got home.......gone!! 😅😅😅
Yes I wore those when I first started my periods in fact I also had one which was like a stretchy corset with the metal holders with buttons underneath to trap the tape on the feminine pad - a bit like a stocking corset Both styles were independent of underwear - although of course underwear was worn as well
Oh gosh I remember being handed one at a young age told here put it in top draw you will need it soon ...omg I remember looking at it in horror thinking ..this is my future 😱 no one was that great at explanations in those days till you actually screamed for help 😷🌍👍🇦🇺
@@alanedark1538 totally agree
The blue dress reminded me of the saying, "as wide as she is tall". I resemble that remark!
Thank you. I enjoyed this video. I like seeing how people in the past dealt with the practical things we have to deal with, too.
You are a treasure Dr Kat. I agree with you that it is difficult to imagine the chasity belt being used. However, as an old women who has seen a lot. I never underestimate mans inhumanity to man, or in this case to woman.
I can't stop giggling at the idea of a Tutor man, dressed to the nines, rooting around in his codpiece for change. It's the Tudor equivalent of keeping valuables in your bra! (Also, love the channel, am marathoning your vids)
the other option for ladies going commando during menstruation. perhaps a belt and linen sewed with loops.. some of the older generation may remember thats how it worked in the 70s I believe. Looped pads that went on a belt round the waist
Those were actually comfortable. Was given my first Kotex menstrural belt and pads by the school. See, we did have sex classes.
I remember those, massive Dr Whites and the elastic belt!
It was a soft elastic belt with a garter hook in the front and back on which you looped your sanitary pad. And, no commando in the sixties. That is, if we went commando we'd never tell! Not amongst my convent -bred group of young ladies! Time does go by quickly.
Just really respect your focus on primary sources in all of your videos. Thanks so much!!!
So appreciate your common sense approach to a subject I must admit I've been curious about for ages 🎉😊❤
My mom had been a costume designer--so I would attend theater productions or watch a movie--I would get a lecture on underwear. Usually how it was wrong.
That's because it usually was.
Wouldn't it make more sense to think that a chastity belt was actually developed by noble women for their own defense if they wanted to protect their virtue for short periods of time, like if under imminent invasion threat or while traveling through hostile areas? Just given how it is worn it wouldn't make sense for it to be something a husband put on a wife, not when he could leave people behind to simply watch her as was the common practice, but it could easily be worn for a journey or the like for one's own protection from assault. Considering the fact that rape could be used to force a woman into all sorts of things, and the fact that rape-x hadn't been invented yet, I'm willing to bet both Eleanor of Aquitaine and Mary Queen of Scots would have used them when traveling if they'd known of their existence. I also get the feeling this is one of those things that's been skewed in historical context by the "male gaze", just like the story of Medusa recieving her snakes as a punishment instead of as protection against being raped in the future, or the image of Cleopatra VII as a seductress instead of an academic. I know I would opt to wear one during that time period while traveling, especially if anyone could gain anything by legally compromising me.
What an interesting thought...I'm not sure I would wear one, depending on style/comfort. But I like the idea of defense. Maybe we can put spikes on them too. 🤣
@@amybeth323 YES! 👍
Yes, I've heard this stated as the real reason for such belts many times. In times of siege or if your husband went off to battle nearby etc you'd put one of these on in the event you lost and the invaders were on your doorstep, to try and stop yourself being raped. It's something only the noble ladies would have owned and was perhaps very rarely used, but widely known that a lady could wear one in an attempt to deter anyone willing to try :/
Are we just not going to talk about the demon in the bum roll picture (14:13)?
As always, highly enjoyable, entertaining and educational. Thank you.
Your videos always come out when I need them. I am currently writing my MA dissertation on women's underwear. Stays in the mid-late 18th and early 19th centuries.
THANK YOU for discussing the rarity of tightlacing! I have to wear a corset pretty often; they're stealthable and less hot than the bulky back brace I wear at home and in cooler months. So many people associate corsets with either... sexy times or pain. Seeing people faint in movies and stuff has given a lot of people a passing notion that corsets were always, or were supposed to be, really uncomfortable or painful. If your corset hurts you, it's not the right size or fit. I'm petite and have a ridiculously short waist, about five and a half inches. The first corset I got wasn't a longline, but it was long enough that when I sat, it cut into my abdomen and sometimes even my thighs! That's not how corsets are supposed to feel; it didn't fit correctly!
Gah, it's a pet peeve of mine. Right up there with people thinking we only use 10% of our brains, and we have so much untapped potential. 🙄 But in the case of corsets, people assumed it was some kind of self-flagellation thing, like I was a masochist or something. Or if they found out I wore them, they assumed it was to somehow attract a guy (without tightlacing or waist training, with it being stealthed under my clothes?).
Corsets and stays lasted a long time because they were GOOD at what they did, and fulfilled a specific function. The bashing of an object because of how it makes people feel is always odd, and in this situation, their assumptions are usually wrong to begin with. 🤷🏻♀️
I’m in the midst of a horrid Lupus flare and your video has been the highlight of my day !!
Smiles, then laughs. Thank You! I'm old enough to remember when most women wore girdles and weren't allowed in church wearing slacks.
I'm old enough to remember my grandmother's corsets, and my mother's "roll-ons".
I agree that the chastity belt was rarely, if ever, used and only as a form of torture or punishment. As for the idea that medieval women didn't wear some form of "knickers"...I cant believe that. I think it would have been considered scandalous if a woman wasn't wearing "knickers". It also makes sense to have a way to keep the menstrual items in place somehow. The Lendburg "pants" seem to be shaped differently from pictorial representations of men's brais to suggest they were made for women. However, they could be unisex for all I know. Awesome video! It was nice to get the mental exercise this morning.
Thank you again for a fascinating episode. I majored in history and minored in textiles (even did a research paper on stays corsets)! How about an episode on Sir Thomas Moore? I’m quite conflicted on the man ;)
Enjoy your channel Dr. Kat!!! Thanks for all your hard work. We all have it so much better even in these not very good times!
Your dry sense of humour reminds me of "Dr. Todd Grande". You two would be a fun collab. :)
Love "behind the scenes " history pieces. Equivalent to life under stairs in grand houses! Perhaps a video on life of servants sometime?..
Abby Cox has a great video about historic methods of dealing with periods and tests out the period apron idea. It's very interesting. Thank you for your informative and fun videos.
I love how you use "trixie" instead of tricky. Love it!
Hi, Dr Kat. It is August 2021 and I am in Victoria Australia in lockdown 6. I have watched several of your videos and I am enjoying them so much, especially right now.
Thanks for this video on material culture and discussions on the many layers of clothing. I discovered your channel about 3 months ago, just love all the topics. The in-depth ones of various Tudor/ Elizabethan nobles are my favorites, besides this one. Could you make a video on each layer separately, could be a clothing series of videos. How people wore the many fashions helps us understand how clothing really showed outwards, who you were in society. Social class and sumptuary laws dictated what was worn, how many yards it was used, what materials were used, and acceptable colors. While watching this, I am sewing doll-sized Spanish farthingales. Using hemp cord for the stiffening of the channels in green cotton. Red silk taffeta as the base and green casings of cotton over the hemp cord. The dolls have high-necked smocks with ruffs, bum rolls, the in-progress farthingales, stays are up later this week. In a few weeks, the outer layer will be velvet gowns red, green, blue, black in 1560, Spanish, French, English, and German respectively, Using Vencellio's woodcuts as the basis for the style of the fashions.
What a fun video thanks . I think there will have been female knickers or equivalent for a very long time . I know we have grown up with it but it seems comfortable and practical
You finally answered all my questions on historic underwear. Thank you. I have tried for years to find out but either no one knew or they thought it was an inappropriate topic.
Very interesting. I enjoy all your videos and topics
I found this episode really interesting. As a fashion student back in the early 1980s we visited our local art gallery. There we did life classes and drew each other wearing some of the costumes. I physically recall being shown a pair of those Victorian knickers and wondering what that was all about.Thank you so much I thoroughly enjoyed this episode
Enjoy these videos as always! Fascinating topic! I think you left out the Amplificator, which is a garment that is similar to a bra or an undershirt for women, with lots of ruffles sewn onto the front, to make one's bosom look larger than it is, under the upper body clothing. I believe it was worn in the 1800's and maybe early 1900's. I think I read somewhere that gentlemen in the 1700's and 1800's would also wear the equivalent of shap-ewear, similar to a corset, under their garments- if a longer, thinner silhouette was desired. Certainly this topic is still interesting now, as we see underwear continuing to evolve, as far as materials and construction is concerned. It's come a long way! And then as now, if you wear undergarments that are constructed of breathable fabrics, that fit correctly, and aren't meant to deform the body into some unnatural shape, they can be both comfortable and flattering. Of course they aren't magical garments and can't turn Tess Halliday into Audrey Hepburn. I wonder if underwear in former times also involved a bit of wishful thinking and fantasy elements in them, as some undergarments do today (i.e. Fredericks of Hollywood.) How dull, if they did not!
Brilliant Dr Katt , from the use of your liquistick excellence. To you you give! God Bless
Watching this video while hand sewing my 15th century style linen shift 😊
I just adore your channel. I always sing along to the opening tune, and find myself humming it throughout my day. Always interesting, informative, engaging and entertaining. Seriously, I love what you're doing.
Underwear. Always a fascinating subject. Thank you!
What if a woman was in a chasity belt, husband went of with the key, and then he never came back for some reason. What a predicament!
Lol never thought I would have listened to an underwear topic but found it interesting! The chastity belt topic was right on the money! If it was worn once never again. Thank you for your dissertations.
Bodies, stays, or corsets - were not uncomfortable. I love listening to you, but in addition, I would suggest also watching information on YT with Bernadette Banner, Abby Cox, Morgan Donner, PriorAttire etc, and other garment historians.
Bernadette Banner did a great video on the pocket, which had an embroidered dumpster on fire for 2020.
That bra you showed, and the 'underpants' were both re-created by Abby Cox, and you can see her video on it too. Pretty interesting!
Thank you for your accuracy on the corset discussion. It was meant to support the weight of garments. Women would not have worn them for centuries if it weren't supportive.
Great video!!! Thank you!
Dr. Kat I’d love a video dedicated to how women dealt with menstruation in the past. What did they do for cramps? Or even a video on what we consider basic hygienic rituals like shaving. I often wonder what women of the past did in regards to this. How was body hair viewed on a woman? Did they have similar beauty standards to us? I wonder how much time would have been dedicated to “upkeep” if they did. I think it could be an interesting topic.
I really love your Chanel. It always helps me to rewind at the end of the day. Always interesting and informative 🧐☺️
A knee length or longer shift of linen I believe is quite able to wick away any light flow or moisture from between the legs. The idea of using an apron looped between the legs under petticoats for more absorbency is when needed seems possible, as tried by Abby Cox recently on you-tube.
I found the information about how women dealt with their periods pre-sanitary napkins in Victoria Lincoln's book "A Private Disgrace: Lizzie Borden by Daylight," very interesting although Lincoln does not mention how the Birdseye linen folded pads were held in place. I suspect a forerunner of the sanitary belt, which was simply a circle of elastic with tabs to which the napkin was fastened.
Hi Dr Kat, greetings from Canada 🇨🇦. I happened upon your channel a couple of weeks ago. I’ve been enjoying your content. Very educational and entertaining. Thank you 😊
I've always wondered what women did back then for undergarments. Very interesting! Thank you, Dr. Kat!
An all-womens topic: what did women use when they got their periods? How were the women treated by the men! What did they use for cramps?
very good topic, I would be curious to learn about the evolution through centuries.
Opium. I'm going with opium for cramps. Them ole timey people didn't mess about😏
Opium. I'm going with opium for cramps. Them ole timey people didn't mess about😏
Hi, I love this show please never stop making new content.
This is a channel where I hit the like button before the show begins. Never disappointed! Top quality!
It is said the curved seam we are accustomed to in trousers today is a relatively late development. I have some hand sewn clothing consisting of dresses and matching pantaloons, perhaps from Afghanistan or India. The pantaloons begin like a short skirt and legs are attached at a point low enough to avoid chafing delicate areas.
It is also said that medieval hose, stockings, etc. were not knitted but were made from woven fabrics cut on the bias. It is suggested that knitting came in rather late and originated in the Middle East. I find that hard to believe since I'd think curious people could invent the techniques. Nevertheless, Scandinavians did and still do 'naelbinding' which is a form of weaving with a large sewing needle. It is very different and more time consuming than knitting.
The leather-looking "chastity" belt on the left makes me wonder if it was intended to be used for mortification of the flesh by monks or other deeply religious devotees. Some of those practices were rather extreme. I could actually see the contraption pictured, being used on a man. Although I can also see the value of the design as a deterrent for males if used as an actual chastity belt. IMO hygiene would be so horrific....as mentioned.....that I think these belts must be more legend than anything. Maybe they were sex toys of some sort for a bit of roll playing. Knights going off to war, many times for a year or longer, would hope to leave their women pregnant so the whole concept is fairly impractical.
Thank you so much! It's easy to get distracted by the handsome--or not so handsome--outer clothing of the past. This is something I've always wondered about.
I love your videos ❤️ Thank you.
LOL so Henry's codpiece is like a modern day wonderbra...stuffed with chicken fillets! Poor King Henry was soo desperate to prove that he was fertile... it was sad to see. I fell in love with the embroidery on the lady's pocket! Wow!
My heart just breaks for the young Mary and her father’s cruelty and the viciousness of Anne Boleyn’s treatment that visited itself upon Elizabeth during Mary’s reign. Henry had so much to answer for!
Great video as always. Interesting to see some of these clothes, as is still a question for today, how on earth did they ever become fashionable?
Watching as I hand sew a Georgian linen shift. How appropriate!
"Going commando". Never thought of it that way because all of my older relatives (1850's on) knew something of "underwear" - bloomers and then the thoroughly "modern" panties. Thank You for such and entertaining and educational video.
Please comment. Admittedly, I've only been on a horse once and my 69 hours of history in uni never went that deep. Buf, I have to wonder if a codpiece didn't also serve as a "cup".
I admit that, as a clothing historian, I avoided watching this video for a few hours because it's been my experience that non-experts (even when they are professional historians) tend to misinterpret historical clothing. But Dr. Kat, I should not have worried! You did not fall into any of the sensationalist traps or salacious myths. Although I think that justifying underpants for women as a feminine hygiene product is incorrect, there are many clothing historians who disagree with my assessment. And you present everything with your usual attention to facts and openness to the possibilities. Brava!
Chastity belts remind me of the”Man in the Iron Mask”. Doctors say no one could have worn an iron mask for long without death due to infection from ingrown hairs and general dirt. Same for the chastity belt. I don’t believe they were ever used but if so, only for very short periods.
Also worth noting regarding the pictures of tightlacing, many of these show evidence of being edited to show a smaller waist than the person actually had. It was their version of photoshop. Karolina Zebrowska has a really informative video on it. There is a whole community of historical costumers, some of whom have specialised academic qualifications, who have made many videos regarding the history of clothing if people want to explore this subject further.