Save your Starter Battery with the EasyAS Relay
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- In this episode of Lock your Hubs 4WDing we test the Aussie GSL Electronics EasyAS Alternator Sensing Relay. This could save your starter battery!
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Does this now have you thinking about an EasyAS relay, or will you be sticking with ignition/voltage control?
Im fine atm with the standard BCDC as Im running conventional lead acid starter and lithium deep cycle under bonnet but will likely use something like this or the Redarc equivalent for and ignition cutout so its easier for external charging, but thats the only reason.
@@1Coolbanana you're right, if you're running an accessory lead acid AGM battery without a DCDC, no need for any of this yet.
I do have the Easy As instslled
Hello Simon, I hope you receive this and can advise your thoughts. I have a Holden Colorado RC (2011) fitted with a Redarc Dual sensing smart battery isolator, dual wired to an aux AGM battery box in the ute tub. I also have a Victron MPPT controller 75 15 wired in the battery box for use when stationary with a solar blanket. I now want to change the aux AGM battery to a Lithium battery, so have purchased a Victron 12 12 30 Dc to DC charger to add to the system in the ute tub battery box. I want to leave the Redarc isolator in place under the bonnet, and just add the DC to DC charger. Can you see any issues with that? Should I still fit a on/off switch to the DC to DC charger? Appreciate any advice you can give, I am "old' and not too savvy with contacting via youtube.
I assume the smart isolator is the SBI212D, when using a lithium aux battery and a DCDC charger, there isn't a need for the smart isolator.
Just wire the Victron DCDC straight to the starter battery (fused appropriately) and if you want the extra protection of the EasyAZ that can also be wired into the ignition circuit to ensure the DCDC never turns on unless the car is running.
If you would like some more help, shoot me an email at simon(at)lockyourhubs4wding(dot)com
(Change the (at) to @ and the (dot) to . )
my plan :
Depending on the car ,i have a petrol car ( with injection ) and a feulpump
seems to me that you can put that ( feulpump) positive as a signal to pin H on the victron 12 12 30 in my case ,just to start/stop the victron dc dc charger
it stop instantly ,and startup with a (configurable) delay 120sec ?.
( maybe i use a micro relais and a stable12 volt souce in between to keep the dirty ? feulpump output signal clean from pin H )
My bms/ebs sensor on the car batery dislike the ongoing pull down from the victron dc dc till it is shut Off deu to voltage drop
the state charge state differs from ignition off memory in the car ecu and my start stop system is affected by it /less active.
in my first setup
i do have a battery charger 1amp too ,and did make a switch on the gray connector (bridge)
on my victron dc dc 12 12 30 and use that to switch off the victron dc dc and charge my car battery on the camping with no isseu ,only to remember to switch on before the ride 🤔
just my 2cents 😇
It's a real advantage that the Victron's are so configurable. Unfortunately, not all brands are so lucky.
the manual switch would be ideal if the starting battery was low and you needed it charged first. or if the second battery was nearly charged and you were just letting solar top it up the rest of the way.
Sure would!
How is this product supposed to work with a Redarc BCDC and a standard type alternator when in this situation the trigger wire is supposed to be not connected? What are you then supposed to connect the output of this relay to?
The issue with the Redarc is it'll turn on regardless based on input voltage whether the ignition wire is connected or not.
I addressed this with the MD, he never got back to me.....
The only work around I know of is to use the EasyAs to to trigger a larger heavy duty relay that isolates the BCDC's positive input.
Great episode
You are a very smart cookie.
I learn so much from you.
Thanks
Thanks mate, if I can save one person from getting a flat start battery, especially if they're travelling remote at the time, it's time well spent.
I have a Victron 18amp DCDC. When parked up I often just put an 8 amp ctek charger on the main. (your scenario 1) The main goes up and the DCDC sucks 18amps out until the voltage of the main drops. DCDC cuts out and the ctek continues and the main voltage goes back up until the DCDC kicks back in. This cycling goes on for a while with ever increasing cycles but eventually the DCDC goes to float/monitor mode on LifePo4, the ctek then finishes the main charging and goes into float. Once everything is up to voltage, if the fridge is on during the night (solar keeps up during the day) and takes a gulp from the LifePo4 the DCDC goes back into adsorption (up to 5 amps) and it takes a sip from the main but that is quickly recovered from the ctek.
Often the best solution is the most simple, so for me adding another device to the system is undesirable. I suppose the down side of my method is the main battery and DCDC is cycling a bit and shortening its life span.
The whole cycling thing wouldn't be ideal, especially for your starter battery. Another solution of course is to use the remote feature of Victron to only turn it on when the ignition is on (when the engine is probably running)
I just added the Easyas relay in EasyAS mode with a DCDC 1240D Redarc charger, when I connect my Ctec 10amp battery tender the Redarc BCDC charger switches between 80 seconds off and 100 seconds on from the vehicle charging mode, any thoughts on why it would be still getting a signal from the start battery with the car turned off?
The Redarc is a pain..... When it sees an increased voltage (regardless of using the blue ignition wire or not) it'll turn on the DCDC with the increased voltage on the supply red wire and you can't change the settings.....
The easiest thing to do would be to put a heavy relay in the supply line (red wire) to the DCDC charger controlled by the EasyAS. That way you can bypass the "smarts" in the DCDC and actually control the thing how you want too.
Hey Simon, do you have any experience using this with an Atem dc-dc charger. I smoked a NOCO ac-dc charger charging the main battery.
I don't have any experience with the Atem specifically, though they pretty much all work the same.
The only thing to watch out for is some DCDC chargers (And I'm thinking Redarc here, though there may be others) will turn on when the input reaches a predefined voltage, that isn't user programmable.
The way around that is to isolate the DCDC chargers input using a heavy duty relay that is operated by the EasyAs. (As the EasyAS is only rated to 8A)
Hey mate. Noticed you mentioned “AC” coming out of the alternator. That’s not really accurate, as the AC is clipped within the stator of the alternator and we only see DC come out of the alternator.
Probably more accurate would be to say AC ripple, or just dirty DC!
Thanks for that - solves a lot of problems, but I think I will stick to my old ways given the $88 for the GSL Electronics EasyAS Alternator Sensing Relay. Maybe reconsider it when/if it is $22.
Unfortunately, they probably won't sell enough to get down to those prices.
This is great
I replaced my previous dual battery system, which included a Redarc BCDC1225D, with one Invicta LiFePo4 hybrid max cranking / deep cycle battery
Then I thought about "what if I wanted to add a second LiFePo4 battery at some stage"
The Redarc would be unsuitable
Now you're given me a cheap option / solution
Cheers
Happy to help!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing
G'day Again
Would the Redarc RK1260 do the same job as the GSL EasyAs?
Cheers
@@fjlthycruisertouringaustralia not really, that kit just detects that the ignition is on, not that the engine is running.
@Lock your Hubs 4WDing
Ah Righto
I had someone telling me it'd do the same job
Cheers
@@fjlthycruisertouringaustralia It will if all you want is a disconnect the BCDC from the start battery (whether its lithium or not) when the ignition is off for charging purposes. So you can run two lithiums (start and deep cycle) just using a relay to isolate the BCDC. That would defeat the voltage set by the BCDC.
Thanks, Simon, I understood everything when you have pictures, and then you said pixies, which got my attention immediately. In all seriousness, it made perfect sense to me, and I usually only like a graph. Thanks heaps Simon I'll see you in the next video and I'll keep looking for then pixies that are coming out of my battery charger.
Dancing pixies!
- AVE-like isms abound...
@@kadmow pretty common vernacular in the industry, but having said that, AvE is the man!
Victron does all of that on its own. With multiple options and settings for smart and standard alternators
The Victron is better than many, though it still uses voltage to detect engine running, even in "smart alternator" mode. So potentially could still flatten the start battery by attaching a charger.
Instead of hardwiring the Victron, could you not have an anderson to connect to the aux battery. Therefore if you ever wanted to AC charge the starter battery you could simply disconnect the dcdc to the aux battery
Or even use a manually operated relay, though it would still rely on you unplugging the Anderson or operating the relay before hooking up the charger and the reverse afterward.
This will never forget.
Who invented this JAS Oceana (LV brand) or GSL Electronics - I prefer to buy from the real originator - unless it is widely licensed and quality controlled (then they still get royalties to create great new stuff)..
It seems a fantastic way to get an "Ignition source" anywhere, it may just stand in instead of running the headlights to keep smart alternators from dropping the BCDC / DC_DC offline. (I have a dual input DCDC meaning that if parked up for a while, solar keeps all the accessories humming along and backfeeds the start-battery with a trickle.
Another wiring detail I haven't done yet, but overcomes the the hassle of getting (fused) power (or ignition signal) from the Main Battery / or from switches in the cabin can be overcome by placing an additional "7 core trailer cable" (or other single jacket flexible multicore) from the engine bay/cab to the canopy, double insulated, all in one shot - need more, add 2 - ( relay and fuse all loads at common, easy to access points).
The modern fad of adding bluetooth everywhere, it just works, until it doesn't.
I'm not aware of the JAS product. And as they say, EVERYTHING is better with bluetooth... :)
Nice one Simon😎. I have a Redarc BCDC charging my lithium aux battery in my 200 Series just like you have in your diagram. I will be replacing my lead start battery with a lithium cranking battery. I understand an issue this creates is that the lithium start battery voltage does not fall below the Redarc BCDC threshold voltage until it’s been pretty much sucked dry by the aux battery. I was just going to put a simple relay on the BCDC that activates when the ignition is on, and cuts the power completely to the BCDC when the ignition is off (thereby separating the two batteries from one and other). Is this relay a better solution and why would that be the case? Cheers mate👍😎
It is a better solution, simply because without the engine running, you won't be charging the aux battery. So even if you have the radio on via the ignition, the DCDC won't operate.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Hi, looking at your diagrams at 3.00min and 10.31min on a Redarc BCDC how will the charger know it is connected to the relay? as the Pos-Alt wire is connected the same? I see the Victron has a jump wire, and a switch can be fitted in between the loop (AS relay) and will work fine. I have the Redarc BCDC charger, and the blue wire connected to the Ign will turn on the charger at a lower voltage 12 volt on 11.9 volt off. Q. will the Start battery still change the setting of the BCDC charger at 13.2 volts when charging the battery with a 240 Volt 1-10 amp even when the engine is not running?
Sorry mate but this is incorrect! The ignition wire on a dcdc is to tell the dcdc to continue charging regardless if the input voltage drops below its cutoff point (when a smart alternator drops it’s voltage.) As long as the dcdc has that 14.2v input it will turn on regardless of the ignition wire being energised! So if u connect the ac charger to the starter battery the dcdc will still turn on because the voltage will rise above the dcdc cut in voltage.This relay achieves absolutely nothing.
If you're referring to the Redarc, you are correct, the Victron as per the thumbnail and diagrams can be set to pretty much whatever turn on voltage you like. V(shutdown) can be adjusted in between 8 and 17v.
For the likes of the Redarc, you can use the EasyAS relay to isolate the input to the DCDC using a heavy duty relay triggered by the Easy AS.
I've brought up the RedArc DCDC lack of programmability and the issues it can cause (also with Lithium (LiFePO⁴) start batteries) with Redarc's MD, though he never got back to me ......
Yes u could. Or just a regular old relay operated by the car’s ignition would achieve the exact same the for a quarter of the price. Being an electrician I 💯 understand how this relay works, but I still can’t work out what it actually achieves.🤔
@@AndrewCharter-x1y it's a failsafe, if the engine isn't operating and the AC ripple isn't present in the DC, your DCDC isn't operational.
And you could wire a regular relay to the ignition on, though that doesn't necessarily mean the engine is running, so you could potentially be draining your start battery, this removes that possibility.
And look, the possibility of you leaving the ignition on without the engine running, or charging the battery with the ignition on are possibly remote. But this 110% removes that possibility that could potentially strand you in the middle of nowhere.
I'm also using one in a Camry hybrid to run a fridge without an accessory battery. The lead acid battery with the ignition on running on electric sees 14v. So not until the engine actually starts (which it does quite randomly) does the fridge see power from the start battery.
Works like a champ.
I totally understand that, but as I said, u can achieve almost the same with a regular relay. I doubt anyone will sit there with the ignition on without the engine running.🤷♂️ Once a smart alternator shuts down your gonna loose the AC input anyway, then relay will open & the input voltage into the dcdc will drop as well, causing it to shut down. So this whole setup is achieving absolutely nothing.😂
@@AndrewCharter-x1y no worries mate, I know you can't see the benefit, and that's ok, I'm really happy with how they work and the added failsafe it provides.
Excellent explanation, thanks so much. I plan to use this as you've indicated, and then another easyas relay between my alternator and 1.5kw inverter wired to my truck (with 270 amp alternator) that is used for tools and other alternating current appliances. The truck doesnt have a large lithium battery to run the inverter, so inverter should only run from alternator.
Both the great applications for the relay.
Great content. I have a question.
If you have solar panels on the house battery (lithium batt in your video), how could you go about keeping your starting battery topped up using the house battery and solar? Still wanting the alternator to charge both banks.
Some DCDC chargers have this function built in ( not the Victron)
Great product, I never knew they existed. Thanks, that will save me some anderson connections into my jack off canopy setup where the dual battery will be
Glad to help, it's a great little product and the fact that it's an Australian company, makes me like it even more!
I can't find your associate link to buy it. Great work been looking for this exact thing for a while now
I purchased the relay through eBay, though they seem to be available from auto elecs as well
Jeeez up at the cracka on a Sunday! Well done mate 😊
Thanks mate. I'm at Little Desert this long weekend, there's 4WDing to be done!
I saw this review and went out and purchased one of these. Unfortunately it turns on the dc dc charger when the ignition is turned to the on position. I have wired it correctly yet still can't work out why it activates when the car is not running.
What model DCDC?
@@LockyourHubs4WDing MB3689 from Jaycar. 12/24v 30a charger.
@@Resleeved to wire this DCDC correctly you have an input directly from battery positive to the input of the EasyAS relay (pin 3 via a 10A fuse) the output (pin 2) goes directly to the ACC terminal on the Jaycar DCDC and finally an earth goes to pin 1. That's it, nothing to do with the ignition circuit.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing that is how I have it wired up. If I turn the key to the on position, it's activating the relay for some reason (without starting the vehicle)
@@Resleeved ok, fault diagnosis is simpley a matter of playing a process of elimination.
Firstly disconnect the EasyAs from the DCDC, then with a wire directly from the battery positive, make sure the DCDC only starts charging when that wire from the battery positive is connected to the ACC terminal on the DCDC.
If that passes muster, then get a globe (12v 10w should do the trick) and run it between the pin 2 of the EasyAs (the output ) and negative. Then make sure it's working as per the video. Eg that it doesn't illuminate until the engine has been running for about 20 seconds.
This'll tell you where the issue is.
Awesome Ep and great info. I do not trust that fancy tect, I have my 20amp dcdc charger hooked up with Ap plug and I unhook it before I stop the donk, and hook up after the donk is started, in years never had a issue,
You must have a better memory than me! :) I need as many failsafes as possible
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I like simple the more automatic electric gear the more trouble I had in the past , just simple does me, as easy to fix to
Does it work with ecu controlled alternators? I.e if the engine is running but alternator voltage is reduced will it keep the DC-DC running?
GSL Electronics say they do.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Thanks, great reason to get one.
Really enjoy your videos. Very clear and easy to follow.
This looks clever but it also looks like you need to run a third wire all the way to the DCDC controller which will be next to the battery (wherever that is) so I'm not sure why you wouldn't just run an ignition wire from the controller. Do some not have these?
Unfortunately you still need to run another wire. Though, the likes of the latest Redarc DCDC chargers have a low voltage cutout, so in order to get them working in the likes of a caravan, you need to run really thick (expensive) wiring. This fixes that issue.
Excellent video and well explained as usual (love the diagrams, makes it easy to follow along) :)
Do you really need to run an extra wire If the Aux battery and the DC-DC charger are in a caravan? Couldn't you sense the AC ripple on the positive power lead (i.e. the ones from your Anderson plug into your van) and put the EasyAs relay in the Caravan as well?
@@Jack_C_ I've been told that over those sorts of distances, it can be a little hit and miss if there is a load on the wire as well. Having said that, I would definitely "give it a go" before running the dedicated wire.
For my van house battery, my auto elec ran the large cables through a 100A relay under the bonnet and then to rear of the vehicle. This relied on the ignition to open the circuit in the relay, rather than running the Enerdrive DCDC ignition wire up to the vehicle engine bay.
For my under bonnet dual battery I use Projecta DCDC 25 with ignition wire wired in. Although I was suspicious of my cranking battery being drained to the deep cycle dual battery when I charged it (as per example in this video) but I was relying on the DCDC to protect it with the ignition wire. I started removing the fuse between the two in case it was draining and was considering a high amp switch instead. Not ideal solution though.
I really do enjoy learning about DC wiring like this, even if I don't have an immediate use for it
Great video and easy as diagrams 👍
Thanks mate!
I was thinking about something like this so I can use a lithium start battery with a Redarc DCDC. I believe they now sell a kit as well which is just an ignition triggered relay. So my question is, why do we need to have a fancy AC sensing trigger when we can use and ignition source to trigger a relay to do the same job?
The ignition trigger would work for most people. Though if the trigger has a low voltage cut off (redarc) or is a distance away, you'll need an alternative.
Heard somewhere that lithium batts under the bonnet can have issues due to heat. Dunno
@@WaveformV1.0 it's a limitation of the chemistry, if the battery compartment isn't well isolated from the engine bay, it'll suffer. No matter what the manufacturer says.
@@WaveformV1.0 Im running lithium under bonnet and its warranted for 5 years for under bonnet use so Im confident and its a game changer. Been working excellent so far. There are a few quality brands out there now which are all warranted for undr bonnet usage.
I'll be using it to reduce having to have an ign into my canopy where my second battery will be, one less anderson connection, well half an anderson anyways