Anterior expansion is definitely not great for sleep apnea and breathing. The nasal aperture, which is the most anterior part of the nasal walls of the airway does offer the most nasal resistance than more posterior to it, but it's still above the premolars or so. So it's relatively posterior into the maxilla, because the maxilla swoops. So when you do an anterior pattern you don't have any split at the PNS, and so the skeletal expansion is reduced in a V-shape. So by definition the more posterior you go the yield reduces. By the time you get to the premolars it's reduced quite a bit, you can still get some but now you're going to need to over-expand. You also get more rotational expansion from inferior force vectors like when pushing on the alveolar bone and so if it is overly rotational you get a vertical increase and therefore reduced lateral expansion, requiring even more over-expansion. Either that or you limit the expansion for bite reasons and possibly don't correct the breathing issue. Won Moon's original method had failures in adults that's for sure, but undeniably it was a higher quality when it did work. In regards to lack of research, I think there actually is a lot of research, I can recall a few papers in the scientific journal recording computational fluid dynamics of different expansions. I mean maybe there is nothing for partners MARPE. One last thing to mention is that it is true that Dr. Li sometimes gets an anterior pattern too. For anyone curious as to why, the reason is that because the KLS Martin expander pushes on the alveolar bone, if the patient's bone quality is poor he has to place it wherever the bone is viable. If there is no viable bone posteriorly then he puts it more anterior. So it's an issue of the KLS Martin expander not allowing him to place it where he ideally would want it.
This type of information should be on the news! Silly stuff makes the news programs right now; when important stuff like this should be replacing it…this should make the headlines!
We have seen an increase in certain areas of journalism recently mouth taping is a trendy thing right now.. I think if Nestor made a follow up book or documentary on this human plague that would push it along.
Can you comment on a few details of your visit? How long was your consult, what diagnostics were done, what other things were included in your consult, did you leave with a treatment plan and what did it cost? I live out of state and am contemplating the challenge of treatment requiring travel. I did find a local myofunctional dentist but her consults are TWENTY MINUTES! I can't comprehend how 20 minutes is enough time to do a thorough proper evaluation and diagnostics to determine such drastic oral health issues and treatment options.
@@kricketkitty Yeah, so I'd say from the time I went back, it was maybe 45 minutes to an hour, speaking with some of the assistants first, then the other main doctor, then doctor Evans. I provided them with pictures from my last treatment, including x-rays from my last specialist, and I opted to have fresh x-rays taken with them. I mentioned my symptoms (TMJ pain, clenching, sleep issues), and they said I would be a good candidate for expansion, and that they could do it without surgery. They did also take fresh pics of the tops and bottoms of my teeth, etc. All in, it's gonna' come to about 13k. 4,500 for the MSE, about 7,500 for the braces that follow, and I'll likely opt for the clear/porcelain braces when the time comes, which'll be another 650. Dr. Evans did mention that this will improve my nasal airway and breathing, and I probably should have leaned more into talking about that, because I'm one of those weird cases where my tongue is too big for my teeth/mouth, I had Invisalign a few years ago, etc. They were about as thorough as they could be with what I was giving them, but I probably could have discussed more, which I plan to do when I go in for my MSE next week. Oh, and one of the other big things is that they actually do payment plans/insurance. The insurance won't reimburse me much, but it helps, but I also opted for payments. Another specialist I saw, where I got my orthotic splint did ZERO insurance or payments, and wanted everything in one shot, which I found kinda' odd).
At 13:30, you ask why teeth don’t drift backwards with wisdom tooth extraction. The answer is : teeth always have a tendency to drift mesially…(toward the midline). This “tendency to drift mesially” is to compensate for the “interproximal wear” (contact point wear between teeth) as teeth slightly “bounce” up and down while chewing over many years of life.
If we don't want a cone shape anterior dominant expansion why not create a MARPE which would expand more with the two posterior screws than with the anterior ones? That would ensure a reverse cone expansion...
Thank you . I have severe sleep apnoea and bad facial aesthetics my whole life and I’m going to start my journey to reverse it by mse then followed by bimax. Because of this channel I’ll become a healthier person. Thanks a lot for all the amazing content ❤ I can’t find any mse providers in uk yet but I’m going to dr safi for bimax. Any advice guys ?
You should look into bioenergetics and wilhelm reich and the stages of development. Most of humanity is stuck In the ORAL stage of development… literally meaning not enough sustenance and nourishment at ages 8 months -2 years. IE mothers warm milk and comfort. It is so sad to know this and see it also within myself. Not completing this stage also leads to not only lack of facial devolpment (due to lack of sucking) but so much more. Underdeveloped bodies and minds. We need to raise awareness to this so it stops happening or humanity will be reduced to a slave class dependent on the “masters”. This is by design no doubt
Hey Ron, Can you please talk about whether mse is better than marpe? I got a marpe and didn’t get a parallel spilt which means my breathing only improved in one nostril. I know you’ve said they’re similar but I’ve done some research and realized mse is the superior expander. Dr.moon has said it in a video of his and several articles online state that the mse is far better than the marpe in all aspects. Because marpes tend to give a triangular spilt. Could this be a question you ask the next orthodontist on your channel? I really want confirmation on this. Also do the screws of the expander have to stick through the nasal cavity or just have contact for bi cortical engagement?
My jaw pops when I close my mouth buy it doesnt hurt at all, I have been chewing gum consistently for about 8 months and mewing for approximately 2 years. However, three first year of mewing was not done correctly. Moreover, before knowing about chewing gum and mewing my jaw was NOT popping but i could breath harder through my nose. Currently i dont have any issues with my airway and my jaw is more defined and overall better, but do you know what possibly could be the cause of my jaw popping? It doesn't hurt but should I continue with chewing gum or maybe just do tongue chewing? I dont want to develop TMJ
Hey Ronald, do you have any other videos or tips to help improve jaw growth for children under 2? We've checked all the boxes Marianna listed to the best of our ability, nasal breathing (especially at night; mouth totally closed), breastfeeding still at 22-months, and giving tough food like meat. The jaws have developed well; however there is still some open mouth low resting tongue posture throughout the day, and slight recession of the mandible. Looking for anything we can do over the next few months before this critical window closes, thanks.
Have you checked for tongue tie? Perhaps the best thing would to do would be to talk to a myofunctional therapist and try to figure out what's causing that low resting tongue posture even if you're giving your child all the right inputs.
Maybe if I had to guess the bendy arms are under constant tension like a bent vaulting pole it wants to push itself straight vs a rigid arm can’t get any longer so it only pushes on teeth if as you turn the device the anchoring screws become loose in palate
@@jimfleece2880 Sorry for late reply. I had it on since April 2022 so almost a year and a half but every case will be different depending on how much expansion you need. As for your other 2 questions I got braces (with mse) at the start of this year but I'm not sure how much exactly expansion I actually got (definitely quite a bit because I had 2 rounds of it) The braces will be indefinite because it depends on your case, for me, I had a severe underbite so I'll have braces for a while longer probably.
@@Sunrise-fr9jbI don't really think it was parallel because I can visible see one of my cheekbones protrudes a bit more than the other. She didn't scan for asymmetry but I never asked for it so maybe you could do that
Anterior expansion is definitely not great for sleep apnea and breathing. The nasal aperture, which is the most anterior part of the nasal walls of the airway does offer the most nasal resistance than more posterior to it, but it's still above the premolars or so. So it's relatively posterior into the maxilla, because the maxilla swoops. So when you do an anterior pattern you don't have any split at the PNS, and so the skeletal expansion is reduced in a V-shape. So by definition the more posterior you go the yield reduces. By the time you get to the premolars it's reduced quite a bit, you can still get some but now you're going to need to over-expand. You also get more rotational expansion from inferior force vectors like when pushing on the alveolar bone and so if it is overly rotational you get a vertical increase and therefore reduced lateral expansion, requiring even more over-expansion. Either that or you limit the expansion for bite reasons and possibly don't correct the breathing issue.
Won Moon's original method had failures in adults that's for sure, but undeniably it was a higher quality when it did work.
In regards to lack of research, I think there actually is a lot of research, I can recall a few papers in the scientific journal recording computational fluid dynamics of different expansions. I mean maybe there is nothing for partners MARPE.
One last thing to mention is that it is true that Dr. Li sometimes gets an anterior pattern too. For anyone curious as to why, the reason is that because the KLS Martin expander pushes on the alveolar bone, if the patient's bone quality is poor he has to place it wherever the bone is viable. If there is no viable bone posteriorly then he puts it more anterior. So it's an issue of the KLS Martin expander not allowing him to place it where he ideally would want it.
How about MARPE with corticopunture?
This type of information should be on the news!
Silly stuff makes the news programs right now; when important stuff like this should be replacing it…this should make the headlines!
They would probably make this headline sound like a joke purposely
We have seen an increase in certain areas of journalism recently mouth taping is a trendy thing right now..
I think if Nestor made a follow up book or documentary on this human plague that would push it along.
Have been treating this way for over 25 years. So grateful and proud of my resident and friend Dr Evans
Had my consult with Dr. Evans 2 days ago, and before I left, made sure to give this interview a shout-out! She seemed really happy to hear it. :)
Can you comment on a few details of your visit? How long was your consult, what diagnostics were done, what other things were included in your consult, did you leave with a treatment plan and what did it cost? I live out of state and am contemplating the challenge of treatment requiring travel. I did find a local myofunctional dentist but her consults are TWENTY MINUTES! I can't comprehend how 20 minutes is enough time to do a thorough proper evaluation and diagnostics to determine such drastic oral health issues and treatment options.
@@kricketkitty Yeah, so I'd say from the time I went back, it was maybe 45 minutes to an hour, speaking with some of the assistants first, then the other main doctor, then doctor Evans. I provided them with pictures from my last treatment, including x-rays from my last specialist, and I opted to have fresh x-rays taken with them. I mentioned my symptoms (TMJ pain, clenching, sleep issues), and they said I would be a good candidate for expansion, and that they could do it without surgery. They did also take fresh pics of the tops and bottoms of my teeth, etc.
All in, it's gonna' come to about 13k. 4,500 for the MSE, about 7,500 for the braces that follow, and I'll likely opt for the clear/porcelain braces when the time comes, which'll be another 650. Dr. Evans did mention that this will improve my nasal airway and breathing, and I probably should have leaned more into talking about that, because I'm one of those weird cases where my tongue is too big for my teeth/mouth, I had Invisalign a few years ago, etc. They were about as thorough as they could be with what I was giving them, but I probably could have discussed more, which I plan to do when I go in for my MSE next week.
Oh, and one of the other big things is that they actually do payment plans/insurance. The insurance won't reimburse me much, but it helps, but I also opted for payments. Another specialist I saw, where I got my orthotic splint did ZERO insurance or payments, and wanted everything in one shot, which I found kinda' odd).
At 13:30, you ask why teeth don’t drift backwards with wisdom tooth extraction.
The answer is : teeth always have a tendency to drift mesially…(toward the midline). This “tendency to drift mesially” is to compensate for the “interproximal wear” (contact point wear between teeth) as teeth slightly “bounce” up and down while chewing over many years of life.
If we don't want a cone shape anterior dominant expansion why not create a MARPE which would expand more with the two posterior screws than with the anterior ones? That would ensure a reverse cone expansion...
what is cone expansion?
Thank you . I have severe sleep apnoea and bad facial aesthetics my whole life and I’m going to start my journey to reverse it by mse then followed by bimax. Because of this channel I’ll become a healthier person. Thanks a lot for all the amazing content ❤
I can’t find any mse providers in uk yet but I’m going to dr safi for bimax. Any advice guys ?
Mse to treat severe apnea?
Hope your not a male over 25
@@matthewhackett3429 why
@@matthewhackett3429they can do piezo nowadays. Splitting is easy
@@matthewhackett3429they can do piezo nowadays. Splitting is easy
Great interview, Ron!
Wonderful.....but i am missing some molars due to my Class III maloclussion. Thankyou so very much. My favourite channel on You Tube. xx
You should look into bioenergetics and wilhelm reich and the stages of development. Most of humanity is stuck In the ORAL stage of development… literally meaning not enough sustenance and nourishment at ages 8 months -2 years. IE mothers warm milk and comfort. It is so sad to know this and see it also within myself. Not completing this stage also leads to not only lack of facial devolpment (due to lack of sucking) but so much more. Underdeveloped bodies and minds. We need to raise awareness to this so it stops happening or humanity will be reduced to a slave class dependent on the “masters”. This is by design no doubt
Hey Ron, Can you please talk about whether mse is better than marpe? I got a marpe and didn’t get a parallel spilt which means my breathing only improved in one nostril. I know you’ve said they’re similar but I’ve done some research and realized mse is the superior expander. Dr.moon has said it in a video of his and several articles online state that the mse is far better than the marpe in all aspects. Because marpes tend to give a triangular spilt. Could this be a question you ask the next orthodontist on your channel? I really want confirmation on this. Also do the screws of the expander have to stick through the nasal cavity or just have contact for bi cortical engagement?
Congratulations, Ron!
My jaw pops when I close my mouth buy it doesnt hurt at all, I have been chewing gum consistently for about 8 months and mewing for approximately 2 years. However, three first year of mewing was not done correctly. Moreover, before knowing about chewing gum and mewing my jaw was NOT popping but i could breath harder through my nose. Currently i dont have any issues with my airway and my jaw is more defined and overall better, but do you know what possibly could be the cause of my jaw popping? It doesn't hurt but should I continue with chewing gum or maybe just do tongue chewing? I dont want to develop TMJ
Hello sir please reply ❤❤
When I am mewing same pressure are not go on my chicks | so what I do?
Hey Ronald, do you have any other videos or tips to help improve jaw growth for children under 2? We've checked all the boxes Marianna listed to the best of our ability, nasal breathing (especially at night; mouth totally closed), breastfeeding still at 22-months, and giving tough food like meat. The jaws have developed well; however there is still some open mouth low resting tongue posture throughout the day, and slight recession of the mandible. Looking for anything we can do over the next few months before this critical window closes, thanks.
Have you checked for tongue tie? Perhaps the best thing would to do would be to talk to a myofunctional therapist and try to figure out what's causing that low resting tongue posture even if you're giving your child all the right inputs.
So excited!
why rigid molar arms should push less on the teeth than bending arms? doesn't make sense
Maybe if I had to guess the bendy arms are under constant tension like a bent vaulting pole it wants to push itself straight vs a rigid arm can’t get any longer so it only pushes on teeth if as you turn the device the anchoring screws become loose in palate
Planning MSE with Dr Evans soon. She noted that the roof of my maxilla is extremely dense and that I will need a 6 screw/tad MSE installed
Good luck bro. Dr evans removed mine today. It’s gonna be tough the first couple weeks
@@talhaahmed829 thank you. how long did you keep it on ? And how long do you have to have braces/Invisalign? Also how much expansion did you get ?
@@jimfleece2880 Sorry for late reply. I had it on since April 2022 so almost a year and a half but every case will be different depending on how much expansion you need. As for your other 2 questions I got braces (with mse) at the start of this year but I'm not sure how much exactly expansion I actually got (definitely quite a bit because I had 2 rounds of it)
The braces will be indefinite because it depends on your case, for me, I had a severe underbite so I'll have braces for a while longer probably.
@@talhaahmed829 did you get a parallel split?
And as you expand does she take scans and check for asymmetry?
@@Sunrise-fr9jbI don't really think it was parallel because I can visible see one of my cheekbones protrudes a bit more than the other. She didn't scan for asymmetry but I never asked for it so maybe you could do that
I had MARPE attempted twice on me and both times the screws ripped out of my jaw.
very interesting and informative video
That’s what I have I have a wide jaw one but it’s asymmetrical. I have braces but I may get them removed for MSE and than get braces again.
Very Great Video. This should be reaching Doctors Practicioniers
V
5:05
6:58
v 29:09
40:50
1:06:24
Then why is my jawline shrinking after wisdom tooth removal?
@@julesa. did the bone shrink or the soft tissue?
Wow that was so in depth and beautiful. Thank you so much to both of you🙏🫶
Congrats, Ron!