Thank you for the shoutout and helping spread the word! One thing, I am Dave616 on the boards, wish you would have included the email I posted that CGC sent me saying that this is now normal and within their quality standards.
@@MakeRoomCollectibles Yes, I read the comments on the boards... CGC is flat out telling people to expect their books to come back in worse condition, but that's 'normal'.
Strong Suggestion...DO NOT...DO NOT...send any books to CGC until this mechanical issue (curved inner well) is resolved. Yes, I received back from CGC a Modern Submission in June 2024 in which all 25 of my books had mechanical issues (curved inner well) that caused ticks, stress marks, warped pages, etc. The part that pissed me off the most...when I called to complain to CGC...they said / claimed it was a non-issue and that no other customer had reported this issue. Yeah right...total farce. I also warned CGC that this problem would become a major issue on RUclips if they didn't take ownership and acknowledge this mechanical issue.
This is probably why they are so apprehensive about taking before pictures, because they know fully well that they damage books in the grading process, in the slabbing process, and don’t want to be liable for it.
Similar to why they don't always give graders notes- notes can be challenged and aren't always consistent day to day, grader to grader.. Much easier and more cost-efficient for them to have 'no notes'. No notes=no problems.
Damaging the book or not,… It’s not a stretch to expect that your comic will be slabbed in a flat position when you’re paying $30 or $40 per book! Come on CGC, get your shit together!
Thankful to the community for spreading the word. I was about to submit some books but not now. It IS damaging the books. CGC is horrible this year. Just paid the $12 discounted associate membership but may never use it.
I was much happier collecting comics before CGC came around. 9.9's with spine tics... how ridiculous is that! Overstreet doesn't allow spine stress lines until 9.4,and even then only very minor. I grade my comics (and base my purchases) using the Overstreet guideline.
No price guide is accurate. Not even overstreet. Go ahead and prove me wrong. Show me where overstreet predicted the doom boom. The only thing that matters is last 6 months of sales. Overstreet lol.
Who was talking about price guides? I was talking about grading standards. You do know Overstreet was and for some, still is the standard for grading, don’t you?
I'm terrified of purchasing from ebay, people always grade raw about 2 full grades high and then your items arrived banged up by the pathetic delivery service because of the DEI.
@@MarkFaust I've had that type of thing years ago, but have had better luck in recent years. You can really expand the photos and kind of see for yourself. I always message the seller and ask if there are any flaws that I may not be seeing. I also only try to buy from people who are willing to give a grade and not just say "judge for yourself". In recent years I've returned more CGC comics for being over graded.
I just got back some signed books I sent out for grading and you can see on the side of one that is bending my book causing spine ticks that were never there. This is very real!
100 percent the new process is altering the books to the negative, at least with my recent submission. I just finished a conservation project on a X-Men #1. The full series is on my channel. Before I sent the book in it was flat as a board, as illustrated by my second to last upload. When it was returned the book inside and the inner well was warped creating significant creases in and twisting of the book. Also the inner well used was too small pinching the top of the cover within the walls of the inner well. After reaching out to CGC and addressing my concerns they did nothing. Very unfortunate. CGC was the benchmark in grading in my opinion. Based on the results of the X-Men #1 I am now uncertain whether this is still true.
Thanks for spreading the word. Hopefully more people hear about this and CGC will fix the issue. I was one effected with damaged books graded July 1st. CGC fixed 1 book and still dealing with them to fix 2 more.
Claiming that the bend not damaging the comic is a weird flex. Maybe it won’t cause damage in the short term, but over time, constant pressure on the book, bending and distorting the spine, will definitely lead to permanent damage. Would you store a book that way? Of course not.
I don’t think it’s a flex, not sure where you got the idea I was saying it’s good or a positive. I’m just commenting on the fact that many seem to think it’s damaging the comic but I don’t think it is. But everyone is welcome to their own take. If you think it’s damaging it, all the more reason you shouldn’t send anything in.
I got boned on this. Thor 337. 4323343023. 9.8 newstand with 3 obvious color breaking spine tics. You can see the tics in the scans, but what you can't see is that the 3 tics extend into "bends" horizontally across the book from it being crushed in the case verticallly.
Interesting stuff bro. This needs to be addressed and fixed. I have graded comics in my PC, but never sent any in personally to get graded. As you mentioned, I protect my comics using Mylar + Full Backs. If I want to show the back and/or add even more stability, I use Comic Pro Line 80 pt. clear backing boards. I display them in UV Protective Ultra Pro Comic Book One Touch Cases. I like that I can switch out the comics as desired and I don't have to be concerned with lost books, books damaged during shipping/at facility or the issue highlighted in this video. 🙂
So now we are hunting for perfect looking comics to send to CGC so they can bend them and make them look like crap..Presentation of the comic is everything..I am a fan of CGC but they need to fix this now I have seen many and its horrible looking.
CGC has an ongoing major problem with QC. Scams not withstanding, there are so many mechanical errors that go through it is as if there is no QC at all. If I were CGC I would seriously revamp that last step if QC and require stringent standards before books are shipped out.
I believe you have hit on a critical problem. I received a 2018 modern comic back from CGC 4 months ago and questioned why a dead cert 9.8 came back a 9,6 with numerous spine ticks that were not there before ? Having since seen your video, I checked the case and low and behold, there was the inner sleeve bent in a concave fashion, as you described. I used NGC UK (who are CGC's UK office for submissions). I had assumed the spine ticks were due to bad handling at CGC for which, NGC UK apologised and kindly gave me a credit for my next submission. I am astounded that such CGC failures continue to arise, despite the bad press they have been getting for sometime now. They should know better !!!
Emphatically YES. Wolverine #1 graded 9.6 came back with a crease that went 6 pages in to the book. I cracked it, pressed it and not sending in any more books to CGC.
That’s not really true though. There are definitely things they seem to vary on over time (like tanning, stains, etc). But I’ve had CGC 9.8s that old or older that had spine ticks. They’ve always been allowed in a 9.8.
Thank you for bringing further attention to this. I had a small submission of 3 books that was affected. There was significant warping. I sent them back and CGC fixed as part of a mechanical error. One of the books (a 9.8) still has some of that "flexing" that you described going on to some extent.
I won a silverage ASM in 9.0 condition on Comic Link a few months back. The other day I was looking it over and the inner well is warped and the spine now looks like it has 4-5 more significant ticks from bending. I’m beyond upset.
CGC needs to lose significant market share. PSA and CBCS need to step it up. The CGC label still has a powerful hold on the comic book community. It's a great label and it has not been dethroned. But there is no label out there worth having low quality slabs that damages books.
Eh folks will still send it books, buy and sell CGC slabs. Nothing changes. I’m definitely not sending in my gold or silver age books tho. Maybe I’ll wait for PSA.
I sent 5 books to get graded. I had to send two books back for ME. When they came back the top edge of the back cover had tears and folds. I'm glad I came across your video on this topic. I was going to send my Wolverine #1 1988 in to get graded because it's in great shape. Now I'm going to look at a different company.
My book isn't this the video but is one of them in that CGC thread - the damage isn't just a bend allowing light that makes existing defects visible, rather new hard CREASES that appeared after slabbing. My X-Men #1 was super flat, thanks to Jerry the Jitterbug, but once slabbed he noted an entire hard crease formed spanning the entire back cover (as well as other minor defects). It seems he is also thinking it is due to the size of the inner well.
I saw the comment from him about an X-men 1, that definitely seems like a separate issue. Like you said, maybe the wrong inner well size being used. That would be a huge mistake by CGC. Hopefully they’re making it right. Have you reached out to them yet about it? What have they said?
@@AutomaticComics CGC isn't taking responsibility for it and the book was rejected as being a possible Mechanical Error. Jerry is going to do another video on it soon, but regardless if it is a separate issue there seems to be a down turn in QC leaving books 'damaged'.
I used to defend cgc for many many years after everything that's going on and now they're damaging books with their inner Wells it's just ridiculous I would not get any books graded and I won't buy any graded books because of this issue I hope that cgc can get their act together but it seems as long as Matt Nelson is involved that's not going to happen
I’m not sending anything until they address the issue in there process. If I purchase any of these, and the pics didn’t display these flaws it’s going back for a full refund. Damage or not, I want my book sitting in the case flat not bowed.
It almost comes across as though the inner sleeve is slightly larger than the well it’s sitting in. I guess the sealing process could cause warping but these guys should crack the case and see if the warping remains.
Zero reason for books to come back in lesser condition then submitted. It's unbelievable that CGC states this should be expected. They truly treat their customers like imbeciles.
Absolutely appreciate your stance on this! Wellll, I may still consider it damage to a certain degree. If kept in that position long enough, it certainly isn’t doing any favors for the tick. But I totally understand what you’re saying. And I absolutely absolutely agree with the idea of not submitting because this sort of thing makes the book less attractive. Period
I literally just started submitting this year after collecting slabs in the past. Guess I’ll have to hold off on my next submission until this issue is resolved because my last submission definitely experienced all of this that has been discussed 🤦♂️
yeesh - Agree with you on holding off - but I don't agree with you that this isn't freshly and additionally damaging books - no one would think that curving a comic on it's spine, and then encasing it in that position isn't going to create a permanent curve on the spine - and that's damaging the book permanently. This isn't just accentuating existing minor flaws - it is damaging the book. Think what you will - it's a free world - but I don't agree with you at all.
Again.... Where is QC ??? So what i can gather is CGC will just send those issues go and wait till your customers point out defects. If customers had not pointed these things out would CGC just keep quiet about it ??? Tsk, tsk, tsk.
PSA could not have prayed for better timing. First CGC’s grading has always been mediocre and inconsistent. Then they started damaging books they received and giving them a lower grade. And recently, with their new change in case manufacturing, they’re ruining the comics they encase because of warping inner wells. And what’s their response/ solution? “Oh well, sorry, thats within industry standards” I was just about to send some mags off to CGC when I happened upon this video and others showing the nightmare they’ve had to endure. ( Thanks to all of you ) Im definitely waiting to send my comics to PSA. Nothing could be worse than CGC and i doubt it’s a problem they’ll correct before January 25. It may take time but i believe PSA will become the new leader in grading. They have already been grading cards for years. The rest of them are going the way of the Dodo bird. Good riddance.
Ryan, great video again ! Thanks to you, MakeRoomCollectibles and many others for bringing this bent inner well situation to light !! This is clearly not “right” ! I would expect CGC is working on fixing this issue !
Unfortunately it seems like they aren’t. From what MakeRoomCollectibles (and others) have said, CGC is telling them that this is within tolerances. Clearly not an acceptable answer.
Honestly, probably not. PSA is going to have to prove themselves too. The biggest reason CGC gets as much business as they do is their books sell for more than their competitors. If PSA graded books sell for less, it’s going to be an uphill battle for them.
Whether or not it's inflicting permanent damage, it is still not something you want to see on your book. And paying for it!! I am so glad I don't fall for the slab scam.
Depends on what you mean by "permanent." It is, in fact, inflicting damage that can only be resolved by a press. Sometimes it can be fixed...sometimes it cannot. Of special worry all the offset printed books (essentially, the "New Format" books of the 1980s and virtually all comics from 1993-up), because those lack the elasticity necessary to not create permanent stress and color breaks.
I have seen new boards warped along the vertical axis but never warped along the horizontal axis. I would never use the latter if I ever did come across them. It's okay to bend the book on its right side but you should never bend the book at the spine side like you are doing
It seems they could predetermin the "crown" of the inner piece and turn the crown toward the front. This would at least prevent the backbowed creases enhancement.
I got orders submitted in mid-june back the first 2 weeks of July with absolutely no issues. This issue does make me want to hit the pause button on submitting more at the moment.
I heard from a few youtube channels that the COLOR from the ink on the comic books in the slabs are bleeding into the plastic= making the color look weaker- on older ones that were sealed more then a few years. We had this in the coin collecting hobby back in the 1970's when it was discovered that PVC was eating away the finish on the coins.
If that's true, you'll notice color transfer onto the inner well. Next time you crack an older slab, inspect inner well under magnification. I'll believe it, when I see it.
Because CBCS is a fraudulent company, run by fraudulent people, who had the perfect opportunity to be a real competitor, and squandered it all by making petty decisions and poor judgment. Instead of hiring competent, professional people who took pride in their work and their integrity, he hired his friends, who had questionable ethics...to say the least. The market has spoken. The 10-25% discount that CBCS books take isn't worth it.
@@timber72 so in other words use the fancy label guys and decrease value by warping the book in the inner well all because their cases weren’t tamper evident in the first place.
The damage is happening after the grading so most likely the grade is not wrong BUT then its not accurate and just looks bab and then what are you paying for?
For clarity: one was jammed into the top right corner crinkling pages and another slammed into the bottom of the well creating an almost (might be) tear.
Thank you - interesting topic. I have to laugh a bit, nice “flex” with FF1 cased 2.0 as an “regular” example - too funny so have to bust on you a bit - but these peculiar issues with CGC cases seem to come up on a case by case basis and look like the exception to the rule. That said, it seems to be a major issue for some customers and it definitely needs to be addressed more by CGC. It obviously exists. Thank you again for your insight.
Hi from Australia 🦘 absolutely love your videos 😁. Thanks for all the comic info you have taught me a lot about the hobby. And you have some fantastic books.
Are there more pictures of that X-Men #138? I have a very hard time believing that's a 9.8. There's color rub and/or dirt along the spine that appears to at least slightly correspond with the ticks. That entire area should be completely white since it's white for about 1/2" on the back's entire border. Even if those are non color breaking ticks, this shouldn't be a 9.8 due to the dirt/color rub alone. And if it isn't a 9.8, then it shouldn't be suprising there are ticks like this.
This is from the post. It’s a 9.8 according to the poster: I sent in 60 books for the Claremont/Wolverine signing and 59 of them came back with warped inner wells (the one that didnt was a magazine). All had spine damage, some minor some severe depending on the thickness of the book and age. I sent them all back to CGC to be reviewed. They told me yesterday theres no problem and my books arent damaged at all. Heres one of the books i sent in. A 9.8 Xmen 138. Multiple other 9.8 books that looked like this too.
@@AutomaticComics I don't know where this was originally posted but would like to see that this book was actually graded a 9.8. A lot of the claims people have like this just seem so over the top I have a hard time taking them seriously. I have received multiple books back from CGC with the slightly curved inner wells and none of them have any spine damage that didn't already have it there to begin with. I also agree that this curvature would highlight any damage that is already there like you said but I personally don't see how this slight bend could be causing spine ticks or massive bends like some of these people are claiming. I'm not a CGC stan but I can't imagine this book shown could be sent back to CGC to be reviewed and they were like "Still looks like a 9.8 to me!"
@@AutomaticComics It's not what I "think." It's basic physics. I have submitted roughly 20,000 comics to CGC in the last 16 years. I am a professional presser who has pressed nearly all of those books. A professionally, properly pressed book has a perfectly flat spine that remains perfectly flat until acted upon by an outside force. When you apply the type of pressure that a bent inner well applies to a book, you will get compression damage to the spine, which causes bends/ticks/warping, etc. Whether that damage is permanent or not depends on the severity of the bend and the elasticity of the paper and ink which sits atop it, but it IS damage. Do not be offended. It's simply a matter of physics.
@@AutomaticComics Also...those of us who have created a *business* around CGC and certification can't simply "not submit" without doing serious damage to our business model. Imagine owning a Ferrari dealership, and Ferrari starts to turn out vehicles that are subpar. Do you simply stop ordering Ferraris until they fix the issue? No, you'd go out of business.
Like I said, if that’s what you think, don’t send them in. Do you consider the waves at the top of the book that we often see in the cases damage? I don’t. But it seems you probably do, so you’re going to have a different take on this than me.
Then I guess I’m not speaking to your submissions then. I’m speaking to the people that you press books for. So are you telling people to keep submitting books through you even though you know there’s an issue and CGC slabbing is damaging their books (your words).
CBCS has the best case in the business but you guys do not want to try it out. Instead, you'd rather complain of CGC over & over again. Always a new complaint. I do like CGC but i also like CBCS. Slabs wise, CBCS is wayyyy better. Customer Service wise, CGC is wayyyy better.
I have some books graded the beginning of May, and while there is a slight curve, it doesn't appear to be as bad as these look in the video. I compared these to a book that was graded prior to the redesign and that older one does have a curve to it as well. Whether a 9.8 or a 9.4, nothing I see is reflecting any damage from CGC.
Matt Nelson seems like a good guy, I don’t have anything against him. As for QC, I don’t think that role exists 🤷♂️. Or if it does, yikes, they don’t do their job.
@@AutomaticComics being a good guy is not in question. I’m sure he probably is a great guy to have a beer with and talk shop. The problem is he’s the head of the table and the buck stops with him. How many videos or statements are out there about issues after issues accepting responsibility and making steps to fix them! Someone should be Their only job is to check every book before it goes out for any issues and my problem is this guy acts like his company is perfect . I hope PSA puts a dent in competition and forces them to step up and gives collectors options to get the same book and grade in a better case for the same price as CGC. Keep up the great work Ryan
Matt Nelson is a crook (as evidenced by the recent court case, no?) pretty indisputable that he's a shitty guy with good PR agents & a bunch of RUclipsrs willing to slurp his shlong for an interview where he can spin any narrative he wants
@@dzetwo1 if CGC was a smaller shop they could definitely pay one person to slow down and inspect every single item before it gets shipped out. But CGC is huge, and grades an enormous amount of items daily. I doubt their investors want them to slow down and do a better job. It's obviously more profitable for CGC to work faster and looser and just address any problems in hindsight when they happen. They make sure the big vendors and celebrity accounts are happy- the little guys can eat the stress and shout into the void on RUclips
@AutomaticComics Will you consider trying PSA slabbing next year or prefer to keep your collection strictly CGC and just wait till they straighten out their problems?
I don’t have any interest in using psa. Like I said in the video, for me, slabbing has two main purposes, visual appeal and value. I think the psa labels look terrible, so the visual appeal is much worse. And unless psa graded books prove they can sell for as much or more than CGC graded books, there’s no value-based reason for me to use them either. This might change in the future, but I’m not going to spend money to be an early adopter of a new slab.
@@AutomaticComicsI plan on trying them with three types of books - Modern, Silver and if they offer Magazine.. I need to see and draw my own conclusions on Quality & Display of a PSA slab. While my collection is primarily CGC, I do own many CBCS and even one or two PGX.. PGX I have only because a couple of books that came in a small collection I bought had the PGX slab with it, lol.. I cracked one PGX recently and submitted to CGC where I was fortunate to get a grade bump. With my CBCS slabs, I genuinely needed to see their quality of cases over the years, Their service and Verified Signature Series of course before CGC’s JSA authentication process.
I get that PSA labels look bland at first sight on a comic slab, This label has been used since the early 1990’s on trading cards. For trading cards it looks great, I have to see if it’s something I could appreciate in hand and at home in my collection on display.
The before picture is in the dark... then the new one is at a angle with a bright light on it! Ignorance is bliss... just don't look closely at your books with a flashlight!
@@AutomaticComics I appreciate doing with what you have. Your content is good, but the setup is very distracting for a viewer. I'd suggest replacing the shelf with one that sits flat on the wall or mount the comics directly on the wall and shoot the video with both pipes out of the camera's view.
@pettengillj75 are you volunteering to pay for all necessary updates to where I film? We don’t make hardly anything for these videos. It’s just for fun. So unless someone is volunteering a few grand for me to make some updates, it’s gonna stay the way it is.
Thank you for the shoutout and helping spread the word! One thing, I am Dave616 on the boards, wish you would have included the email I posted that CGC sent me saying that this is now normal and within their quality standards.
Just pinned your comment 👍.
Hopefully if they get enough complaints/reduced submissions it won’t be “within their quality standards” for long.
@@AutomaticComics Thank you and agreed!
That’s not acceptable for within quality standard lol
Sounds like their quality standards need to change.
@@MakeRoomCollectibles Yes, I read the comments on the boards... CGC is flat out telling people to expect their books to come back in worse condition, but that's 'normal'.
Every time I'm about to send books for grading, there is a new horror story of CGC's latest failures.
It's always been that way, with more and more people bringing it to light.
Strong Suggestion...DO NOT...DO NOT...send any books to CGC until this mechanical issue (curved inner well) is resolved.
Yes, I received back from CGC a Modern Submission in June 2024 in which all 25 of my books had mechanical issues (curved inner well) that caused ticks, stress marks, warped pages, etc.
The part that pissed me off the most...when I called to complain to CGC...they said / claimed it was a non-issue and that no other customer had reported this issue.
Yeah right...total farce.
I also warned CGC that this problem would become a major issue on RUclips if they didn't take ownership and acknowledge this mechanical issue.
There's a RUclipsr called the comic doctor, he's a presser out of Canada. He's made some vids showing this issue on his customers recent submissions.
I've watched him for a couple of years now and just recently heard him say he doesn't use steel plates when pressing. I though that was odd.
This is probably why they are so apprehensive about taking before pictures, because they know fully well that they damage books in the grading process, in the slabbing process, and don’t want to be liable for it.
Similar to why they don't always give graders notes- notes can be challenged and aren't always consistent day to day, grader to grader.. Much easier and more cost-efficient for them to have 'no notes'. No notes=no problems.
Damaging the book or not,…
It’s not a stretch to expect that your comic will be slabbed in a flat position when you’re paying $30 or $40 per book!
Come on CGC, get your shit together!
If it's not one thing or another with this company. These issues have kept me from sending in a hundred books by now!
Thankful to the community for spreading the word. I was about to submit some books but not now. It IS damaging the books. CGC is horrible this year. Just paid the $12 discounted associate membership but may never use it.
Dave from comic book investments had a tales to suspense that went from a 9.2 to 2.5 corner squished and a crease.
I was much happier collecting comics before CGC came around. 9.9's with spine tics... how ridiculous is that! Overstreet doesn't allow spine stress lines until 9.4,and even then only very minor. I grade my comics (and base my purchases) using the Overstreet guideline.
No price guide is accurate. Not even overstreet. Go ahead and prove me wrong. Show me where overstreet predicted the doom boom. The only thing that matters is last 6 months of sales. Overstreet lol.
Who was talking about price guides? I was talking about grading standards. You do know Overstreet was and for some, still is the standard for grading, don’t you?
I'm terrified of purchasing from ebay, people always grade raw about 2 full grades high and then your items arrived banged up by the pathetic delivery service because of the DEI.
@@MarkFaust I've had that type of thing years ago, but have had better luck in recent years. You can really expand the photos and kind of see for yourself. I always message the seller and ask if there are any flaws that I may not be seeing. I also only try to buy from people who are willing to give a grade and not just say "judge for yourself". In recent years I've returned more CGC comics for being over graded.
I just got back some signed books I sent out for grading and you can see on the side of one that is bending my book causing spine ticks that were never there. This is very real!
Looks bad. Looks damaged.
I wonder what it'll take to get people to just stop submitting to CGC?
That stress, plus time = permanent damage.
100 percent the new process is altering the books to the negative, at least with my recent submission. I just finished a conservation project on a X-Men #1. The full series is on my channel. Before I sent the book in it was flat as a board, as illustrated by my second to last upload. When it was returned the book inside and the inner well was warped creating significant creases in and twisting of the book. Also the inner well used was too small pinching the top of the cover within the walls of the inner well. After reaching out to CGC and addressing my concerns they did nothing. Very unfortunate. CGC was the benchmark in grading in my opinion. Based on the results of the X-Men #1 I am now uncertain whether this is still true.
Sorry to hear about that, that sucks.
If they're the bar then the bar is on the floor 😂
Thanks for spreading the word. Hopefully more people hear about this and CGC will fix the issue. I was one effected with damaged books graded July 1st. CGC fixed 1 book and still dealing with them to fix 2 more.
Claiming that the bend not damaging the comic is a weird flex. Maybe it won’t cause damage in the short term, but over time, constant pressure on the book, bending and distorting the spine, will definitely lead to permanent damage. Would you store a book that way? Of course not.
I don’t think it’s a flex, not sure where you got the idea I was saying it’s good or a positive. I’m just commenting on the fact that many seem to think it’s damaging the comic but I don’t think it is.
But everyone is welcome to their own take. If you think it’s damaging it, all the more reason you shouldn’t send anything in.
I got boned on this. Thor 337. 4323343023. 9.8 newstand with 3 obvious color breaking spine tics. You can see the tics in the scans, but what you can't see is that the 3 tics extend into "bends" horizontally across the book from it being crushed in the case verticallly.
Unbelievable They need to replace it
Interesting stuff bro. This needs to be addressed and fixed. I have graded comics in my PC, but never sent any in personally to get graded. As you mentioned, I protect my comics using Mylar + Full Backs. If I want to show the back and/or add even more stability, I use Comic Pro Line 80 pt. clear backing boards. I display them in UV Protective Ultra Pro Comic Book One Touch Cases. I like that I can switch out the comics as desired and I don't have to be concerned with lost books, books damaged during shipping/at facility or the issue highlighted in this video. 🙂
So now we are hunting for perfect looking comics to send to CGC so they can bend them and make them look like crap..Presentation of the comic is everything..I am a fan of CGC but they need to fix this now I have seen many and its horrible looking.
Agree, presentation is huge.
CGC has an ongoing major problem with QC. Scams not withstanding, there are so many mechanical errors that go through it is as if there is no QC at all. If I were CGC I would seriously revamp that last step if QC and require stringent standards before books are shipped out.
I believe you have hit on a critical problem. I received a 2018 modern comic back from CGC 4 months ago and questioned why a dead cert 9.8 came back a 9,6 with numerous spine ticks that were not there before ? Having since seen your video, I checked the case and low and behold, there was the inner sleeve bent in a concave fashion, as you described. I used NGC UK (who are CGC's UK office for submissions). I had assumed the spine ticks were due to bad handling at CGC for which, NGC UK apologised and kindly gave me a credit for my next submission. I am astounded that such CGC failures continue to arise, despite the bad press they have been getting for sometime now. They should know better !!!
Honestly my opinion is that slabbing should be for selling and should not be used for preservation. CGC marketing sure has sold people on it though.
Emphatically YES. Wolverine #1 graded 9.6 came back with a crease that went 6 pages in to the book. I cracked it, pressed it and not sending in any more books to CGC.
I have personally had several Golden Age books damaged by cgc cases
Problem is CGC keeps changing its grading standards 5-7 years ago a comic with a spine tick was not getting a 9.8.
That’s not really true though. There are definitely things they seem to vary on over time (like tanning, stains, etc). But I’ve had CGC 9.8s that old or older that had spine ticks. They’ve always been allowed in a 9.8.
CGC has lost my confidence, is too many issues currently.
Thank you for bringing further attention to this. I had a small submission of 3 books that was affected. There was significant warping. I sent them back and CGC fixed as part of a mechanical error. One of the books (a 9.8) still has some of that "flexing" that you described going on to some extent.
I won a silverage ASM in 9.0 condition on Comic Link a few months back. The other day I was looking it over and the inner well is warped and the spine now looks like it has 4-5 more significant ticks from bending. I’m beyond upset.
CGC needs to lose significant market share. PSA and CBCS need to step it up. The CGC label still has a powerful hold on the comic book community. It's a great label and it has not been dethroned. But there is no label out there worth having low quality slabs that damages books.
Eh folks will still send it books, buy and sell CGC slabs. Nothing changes. I’m definitely not sending in my gold or silver age books tho. Maybe I’ll wait for PSA.
i’m glad you called them out, i noticed this a long time ago. i’m switching to psa
I’ve popped books that were definitely damaged during encapsulation.
I sent 5 books to get graded. I had to send two books back for ME. When they came back the top edge of the back cover had tears and folds. I'm glad I came across your video on this topic. I was going to send my Wolverine #1 1988 in to get graded because it's in great shape. Now I'm going to look at a different company.
My book isn't this the video but is one of them in that CGC thread - the damage isn't just a bend allowing light that makes existing defects visible, rather new hard CREASES that appeared after slabbing. My X-Men #1 was super flat, thanks to Jerry the Jitterbug, but once slabbed he noted an entire hard crease formed spanning the entire back cover (as well as other minor defects). It seems he is also thinking it is due to the size of the inner well.
I saw the comment from him about an X-men 1, that definitely seems like a separate issue.
Like you said, maybe the wrong inner well size being used. That would be a huge mistake by CGC. Hopefully they’re making it right.
Have you reached out to them yet about it? What have they said?
@@AutomaticComics CGC isn't taking responsibility for it and the book was rejected as being a possible Mechanical Error. Jerry is going to do another video on it soon, but regardless if it is a separate issue there seems to be a down turn in QC leaving books 'damaged'.
CGC SHOULD offer uv resistant glass casings (museum glass) as an upgrade for higher value/higher grade comics. Comic casing is ready for a redesign.
I used to defend cgc for many many years after everything that's going on and now they're damaging books with their inner Wells it's just ridiculous I would not get any books graded and I won't buy any graded books because of this issue I hope that cgc can get their act together but it seems as long as Matt Nelson is involved that's not going to happen
But its still a 9.9 kids😊
I’m not sending anything until they address the issue in there process. If I purchase any of these, and the pics didn’t display these flaws it’s going back for a full refund. Damage or not, I want my book sitting in the case flat not bowed.
It almost comes across as though the inner sleeve is slightly larger than the well it’s sitting in. I guess the sealing process could cause warping but these guys should crack the case and see if the warping remains.
Submit your books to CGC, at great expense, and they may or may not come back in worse condition.... what a deal!
I just got back 34 out of 50 that are damaged is some shape or form from being smooshed in the inner well.
It definitely seems like a pretty big problem. I hope they’re taking it seriously.
Zero reason for books to come back in lesser condition then submitted. It's unbelievable that CGC states this should be expected. They truly treat their customers like imbeciles.
Absolutely appreciate your stance on this! Wellll, I may still consider it damage to a certain degree. If kept in that position long enough, it certainly isn’t doing any favors for the tick.
But I totally understand what you’re saying. And I absolutely absolutely agree with the idea of not submitting because this sort of thing makes the book less attractive. Period
I literally just started submitting this year after collecting slabs in the past. Guess I’ll have to hold off on my next submission until this issue is resolved because my last submission definitely experienced all of this that has been discussed 🤦♂️
yeesh - Agree with you on holding off - but I don't agree with you that this isn't freshly and additionally damaging books - no one would think that curving a comic on it's spine, and then encasing it in that position isn't going to create a permanent curve on the spine - and that's damaging the book permanently. This isn't just accentuating existing minor flaws - it is damaging the book. Think what you will - it's a free world - but I don't agree with you at all.
That a 9.8 😂 whole grading scale needs to be redone
I have 3 slabs with this issue. They were not in that condition when submitted.
I want to use CBCS because I like the new labels. But I don't want to devalue my books either 😂
It's more like bowing than bending.
Again.... Where is QC ??? So what i can gather is CGC will just send those issues go and wait till your customers point out defects. If customers had not pointed these things out would CGC just keep quiet about it ??? Tsk, tsk, tsk.
PSA could not have prayed for better timing. First CGC’s grading has always been mediocre and inconsistent. Then they started damaging books they received and giving them a lower grade. And recently, with their new change in case manufacturing, they’re ruining the comics they encase because of warping inner wells. And what’s their response/ solution?
“Oh well, sorry, thats within industry standards”
I was just about to send some mags off to CGC when I happened upon this video and others showing the nightmare they’ve had to endure. ( Thanks to all of you ) Im definitely waiting to send my comics to PSA. Nothing could be worse than CGC and i doubt it’s a problem they’ll correct before January 25. It may take time but i believe PSA will become the new leader in grading. They have already been grading cards for years. The rest of them are going the way of the Dodo bird. Good riddance.
Ryan, great video again ! Thanks to you, MakeRoomCollectibles and many others for bringing this bent inner well situation to light !! This is clearly not “right” ! I would expect CGC is working on fixing this issue !
Unfortunately it seems like they aren’t. From what MakeRoomCollectibles (and others) have said, CGC is telling them that this is within tolerances. Clearly not an acceptable answer.
They damaged up my wed of Spider-Man 9.6. They didn’t secure the book inside the slab and it move during shipping and tore the back.
Have them encased in solid Lucite resin.
🧠
😁
Great video. With the recent problems with CGC, does this open the door slightly more for PSA?
Honestly, probably not. PSA is going to have to prove themselves too. The biggest reason CGC gets as much business as they do is their books sell for more than their competitors. If PSA graded books sell for less, it’s going to be an uphill battle for them.
I just sent a book in, will let you know how it comes back
Whether or not it's inflicting permanent damage, it is still not something you want to see on your book. And paying for it!! I am so glad I don't fall for the slab scam.
Depends on what you mean by "permanent." It is, in fact, inflicting damage that can only be resolved by a press. Sometimes it can be fixed...sometimes it cannot. Of special worry all the offset printed books (essentially, the "New Format" books of the 1980s and virtually all comics from 1993-up), because those lack the elasticity necessary to not create permanent stress and color breaks.
@@timber72 As far as I am concerned it is permanent as I do not believe in altering (pressing)
Raw, no issues.
I have seen new boards warped along the vertical axis but never warped along the horizontal axis. I would never use the latter if I ever did come across them. It's okay to bend the book on its right side but you should never bend the book at the spine side like you are doing
The boards I have from BCW are warped along the horizontal axis. I’ve never seen them along the vertical axis.
Then they are too thin in my opinion. After trying different products over the years, I have settled on eGerber fullbacks
It seems they could predetermin the "crown" of the inner piece and turn the crown toward the front. This would at least prevent the backbowed creases enhancement.
I got orders submitted in mid-june back the first 2 weeks of July with absolutely no issues. This issue does make me want to hit the pause button on submitting more at the moment.
I have a few of these curved books and was thinking aboit sending them back but ill hold on to them until i can get them to cbcs.
I heard from a few youtube channels that the COLOR from the ink on the comic books in the slabs are bleeding into the plastic= making the color look weaker- on older ones that were sealed more then a few years. We had this in the coin collecting hobby back in the 1970's when it was discovered that PVC was eating away the finish on the coins.
If that's true, you'll notice color transfer onto the inner well. Next time you crack an older slab, inspect inner well under magnification. I'll believe it, when I see it.
Sounds like people need to make the “clear choice” but they won’t…..
Because CBCS is a fraudulent company, run by fraudulent people, who had the perfect opportunity to be a real competitor, and squandered it all by making petty decisions and poor judgment. Instead of hiring competent, professional people who took pride in their work and their integrity, he hired his friends, who had questionable ethics...to say the least. The market has spoken. The 10-25% discount that CBCS books take isn't worth it.
@@timber72 so in other words use the fancy label guys and decrease value by warping the book in the inner well all because their cases weren’t tamper evident in the first place.
If there is a QR code on the back of the case I'm extra careful about buying a slab.
The damage is happening after the grading so most likely the grade is not wrong BUT then its not accurate and just looks bab and then what are you paying for?
I have a few books being encapsulated right now. Is this all books are coming back or certain percentage?
Heyuuu buddy. Good one thanks I didn’t realize this was a thing too
Sent my first book in to be graded a few months ago. Got the 9.8 but the inner well has a few scuffs on it. Wasn't really impressed
Unfortunately that is pretty common. Agree that is really frustrating.
Ugh I have two unopened boxes of submissions waiting for me at home…
oooof 🤦♂️ horrible for buyers and sellers alike
Just had 2 of 7 submissions that are in worse shape than when I sent them. Damaged in the wells. It’s a bummer.
For clarity: one was jammed into the top right corner crinkling pages and another slammed into the bottom of the well creating an almost (might be) tear.
Thank you - interesting topic. I have to laugh a bit, nice “flex” with FF1 cased 2.0 as an “regular” example - too funny so have to bust on you a bit - but these peculiar issues with CGC cases seem to come up on a case by case basis and look like the exception to the rule. That said, it seems to be a major issue for some customers and it definitely needs to be addressed more by CGC. It obviously exists. Thank you again for your insight.
I never get to show that book since I’m usually talking about golden age stuff lol. Thought it would be fun to have as the example.
@@AutomaticComics I love it - but was just busting your chops. No offense obviously. It’s an excellent book! Again great video
Hi from Australia 🦘 absolutely love your videos 😁.
Thanks for all the comic info you have taught me a lot about the hobby. And you have some fantastic books.
Are there more pictures of that X-Men #138? I have a very hard time believing that's a 9.8. There's color rub and/or dirt along the spine that appears to at least slightly correspond with the ticks. That entire area should be completely white since it's white for about 1/2" on the back's entire border. Even if those are non color breaking ticks, this shouldn't be a 9.8 due to the dirt/color rub alone. And if it isn't a 9.8, then it shouldn't be suprising there are ticks like this.
This is from the post. It’s a 9.8 according to the poster:
I sent in 60 books for the Claremont/Wolverine signing and 59 of them came back with warped inner wells (the one that didnt was a magazine). All had spine damage, some minor some severe depending on the thickness of the book and age. I sent them all back to CGC to be reviewed. They told me yesterday theres no problem and my books arent damaged at all. Heres one of the books i sent in. A 9.8 Xmen 138. Multiple other 9.8 books that looked like this too.
@@AutomaticComics I don't know where this was originally posted but would like to see that this book was actually graded a 9.8. A lot of the claims people have like this just seem so over the top I have a hard time taking them seriously. I have received multiple books back from CGC with the slightly curved inner wells and none of them have any spine damage that didn't already have it there to begin with. I also agree that this curvature would highlight any damage that is already there like you said but I personally don't see how this slight bend could be causing spine ticks or massive bends like some of these people are claiming. I'm not a CGC stan but I can't imagine this book shown could be sent back to CGC to be reviewed and they were like "Still looks like a 9.8 to me!"
CGC can’t seem to stop tripping over their own feet 🙄
Seems that way.
@@BrooksSeanRobinson unfortunately this is what happens when you basically have a monopoly.
You are wrong. It is, in fact, damaging the books.
Ok 🤷♂️. All the more reason to not submit if that’s what you think.
@@AutomaticComics It's not what I "think." It's basic physics. I have submitted roughly 20,000 comics to CGC in the last 16 years. I am a professional presser who has pressed nearly all of those books. A professionally, properly pressed book has a perfectly flat spine that remains perfectly flat until acted upon by an outside force.
When you apply the type of pressure that a bent inner well applies to a book, you will get compression damage to the spine, which causes bends/ticks/warping, etc. Whether that damage is permanent or not depends on the severity of the bend and the elasticity of the paper and ink which sits atop it, but it IS damage.
Do not be offended. It's simply a matter of physics.
@@AutomaticComics Also...those of us who have created a *business* around CGC and certification can't simply "not submit" without doing serious damage to our business model. Imagine owning a Ferrari dealership, and Ferrari starts to turn out vehicles that are subpar. Do you simply stop ordering Ferraris until they fix the issue?
No, you'd go out of business.
Like I said, if that’s what you think, don’t send them in.
Do you consider the waves at the top of the book that we often see in the cases damage? I don’t. But it seems you probably do, so you’re going to have a different take on this than me.
Then I guess I’m not speaking to your submissions then. I’m speaking to the people that you press books for. So are you telling people to keep submitting books through you even though you know there’s an issue and CGC slabbing is damaging their books (your words).
CBCS has the best case in the business but you guys do not want to try it out. Instead, you'd rather complain of CGC over & over again. Always a new complaint. I do like CGC but i also like CBCS. Slabs wise, CBCS is wayyyy better. Customer Service wise, CGC is wayyyy better.
How long have you been collecting comics
I collected back in the 80s/90s when I was a kid. Then I got back into it seriously about 5-6 years ago.
I have some books graded the beginning of May, and while there is a slight curve, it doesn't appear to be as bad as these look in the video. I compared these to a book that was graded prior to the redesign and that older one does have a curve to it as well. Whether a 9.8 or a 9.4, nothing I see is reflecting any damage from CGC.
Matt Nelson is a clown. Where is the person for quality control to inspect these before they get ship out
Matt Nelson seems like a good guy, I don’t have anything against him. As for QC, I don’t think that role exists 🤷♂️. Or if it does, yikes, they don’t do their job.
@@AutomaticComics being a good guy is not in question. I’m sure he probably is a great guy to have a beer with and talk shop. The problem is he’s the head of the table and the buck stops with him. How many videos or statements are out there about issues after issues accepting responsibility and making steps to fix them!
Someone should be Their only job is to check every book before it goes out for any issues and my problem is this guy acts like his company is perfect . I hope PSA puts a dent in competition and forces them to step up and gives collectors options to get the same book and grade in a better case for the same price as CGC. Keep up the great work Ryan
Matt Nelson is a crook (as evidenced by the recent court case, no?) pretty indisputable that he's a shitty guy with good PR agents & a bunch of RUclipsrs willing to slurp his shlong for an interview where he can spin any narrative he wants
@@dzetwo1 if CGC was a smaller shop they could definitely pay one person to slow down and inspect every single item before it gets shipped out. But CGC is huge, and grades an enormous amount of items daily. I doubt their investors want them to slow down and do a better job. It's obviously more profitable for CGC to work faster and looser and just address any problems in hindsight when they happen. They make sure the big vendors and celebrity accounts are happy- the little guys can eat the stress and shout into the void on RUclips
@AutomaticComics Will you consider trying PSA slabbing next year or prefer to keep your collection strictly CGC and just wait till they straighten out their problems?
I don’t have any interest in using psa. Like I said in the video, for me, slabbing has two main purposes, visual appeal and value.
I think the psa labels look terrible, so the visual appeal is much worse. And unless psa graded books prove they can sell for as much or more than CGC graded books, there’s no value-based reason for me to use them either.
This might change in the future, but I’m not going to spend money to be an early adopter of a new slab.
@@AutomaticComicsI plan on trying them with three types of books - Modern, Silver and if they offer Magazine.. I need to see and draw my own conclusions on Quality & Display of a PSA slab. While my collection is primarily CGC, I do own many CBCS and even one or two PGX.. PGX I have only because a couple of books that came in a small collection I bought had the PGX slab with it, lol.. I cracked one PGX recently and submitted to CGC where I was fortunate to get a grade bump. With my CBCS slabs, I genuinely needed to see their quality of cases over the years, Their service and Verified Signature Series of course before CGC’s JSA authentication process.
I get that PSA labels look bland at first sight on a comic slab, This label has been used since the early 1990’s on trading cards. For trading cards it looks great, I have to see if it’s something I could appreciate in hand and at home in my collection on display.
CBCS
The before picture is in the dark... then the new one is at a angle with a bright light on it!
Ignorance is bliss... just don't look closely at your books with a flashlight!
droopy hat gots to go
I’ve removed it before and people complain about the pipe. It’s one or the other lol. This is not a high budget production.
@@AutomaticComics I appreciate doing with what you have. Your content is good, but the setup is very distracting for a viewer. I'd suggest replacing the shelf with one that sits flat on the wall or mount the comics directly on the wall and shoot the video with both pipes out of the camera's view.
@pettengillj75 are you volunteering to pay for all necessary updates to where I film? We don’t make hardly anything for these videos. It’s just for fun. So unless someone is volunteering a few grand for me to make some updates, it’s gonna stay the way it is.
I used to just film at my dining room table. This is the upgrade 😂
Hmmm….isn’t your father head grader to be at PSA… just saying….
You’ve got the wrong RUclipsr. That’s Dave from comic book investments.
@@AutomaticComics apologies! Oh man mixing up my watch lists!