Making Music in an Artificial World
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Many of us are rightfully concerned about the impact of A.I. on music and the arts as a whole. What are our primary concerns, and more importantly, how will artists navigate this changing landscape without losing hope?
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Pretty amazing video but I have to ask myself, are you real? Or did AI make this and the background sounds to make us more scared to stop making music?
I came for the tutorial, I stayed for the lovely ''bocause'', I'm now returning for the philosophy. You won't probably see this but thank you sir.
big ups for not having giant red arrows pointing down and a huge bold font saying ITS OVER in all red and yellow. We should not support channels that doom click bait all the time.
My music was already in jeopardy comparing to what real good musicians like you can do 😂 Did not stop me then, nothing to lose to that AI nonsense now haha
I'm a graphic designer and as you may know, we were impacted by AI first. We were terrified. Now, more than a year later, I think I can share some first hand experience - not much has changed really. As you said - AIs are not developed as tools, but not because evil corporations, but because the essence of the technology behind it. It is great for instant creation of complete "a pretty image", but not for gradual process of creating and adjusting "the pretty image". As such, they are completely unsuitable for client-designer back and forth - a lot of commisions on popular freelance platforms have strict "no AI" clauses, because clients burned themselves with cheap "AI artists" who could not handle a simple revision. Graphic models are also devolving - initial models were creative, but imperfect, newer are "perfect" in a photorealistic sense, but way less creative. As a result of this evolution and oversaturation of samey images, people learned how to recognise AI images and are tired of them. With music I suppose it will be exactly the same. Samey background music for commercials or Starbucks will be AI created, but more personally involved clients will still desire human made product and genuine interaction with artists making the music for them.
Now on the whole "democratisation" argument. We heard it too. "Now I can finally create what I see in my head" was/is a very popular argument coming from people who don't really know what "I see in my head" means in case of actual graphic designers. We perfectly know that AI is not creating what we see in our heads. Even more so - trying to get anything resembling what we see is a path to frustration, because it simply can't understand us well enough. The bottom line is - after the initial surge of interest, people will move away from "creating" AI music, because it does not express them. It can't, it only expresses itself.
Great insights. Spot on.
I’ve been attempting my own ambient generative music forms since prior to OpenAI grabbing the spotlight in people’s lives. A lot of people instantly seem to say things like “it’s just an AI” about my music. Not the case. I make the rules in advance to see what plays out, and adjust.
That’s the opposite of “just an AI” but there isn’t much hope I don’t think of anyone paying attention to that reality any more. In our post-reality world, it’s a lot easier, and SEO-ier to say “you’re just using an AI.” People find that easier to understand than anything else. In a gamifying post-meaning world, lowest hanging fruit wins.
Can confirm this mentality was present LONG before “the internet” reached prominence front of mind. Now it’s being selected more as the default.
I hate to bubble pop you, but OpenAi's newest model GPT-4o can actually do revisions now, and it can handle putting text on images, and it can even slice together 3D models. You have to remember this technology is getting better with every revision. Judging the landscape of what AI is/will be right now is tough, because it's like trying to predict what computers are like now based on what you could do with a Commodore 64.
@@ShankatsuForte spot on...the technology is in its infancy
@@ShankatsuForte No worries, you didn't pop the bubble at all. I tried the '4o', it still can't do revisions as clients and designers understand them and as they are required in a real designer job. Even with such easy tasks as black and white silhouette.
Your average consumer doesn't care about the process, only the product!
Which is why they have a generic Monet print next to their TV, why they don't know the difference between run of the mill EDM and a truly great piece of dance music. Our job as artists is to try to give the customer something of ourselves. History shows us that giving the customer what they think they want leads to just the kind of stagnation you are imagining. Yes it's easy to churn out stuff but we wouldn't be here if we weren't trying to be remembered. The fear is that the market is swamped and nobody will find us. If people just rely on the algorithm to deliver their entertainment then they deserve to see and hear only what it presents. I've been trying really hard to think of undiscovered masterpieces of the past that have been unjustly passed over because something great has obscured it. Good art has its time.
The average consumer
If you’re buying a product, you should care about the product you’re buying.
I’ll be honest. As a listener, if an AI can randomly make music that appeals to me as much as some random primadonna musician, it makes no difference to me.
As a musician, I don’t make music as a product, I do it because I like to make music. It doesn’t matter who or what else is making music.
Is this video about the person buying/listening to music or is this about the musician? If it’s about the musician, should the musician create for the product or for the process?
I feel like if you’re a musician that cares whether a listener cares more about you than what you made, you might be focusing on the wrong thing.
They are already complaining that all music sounds the same. When AI makes the music it will sound the same indefinitely.
Is this really true when AI comes into play ? This has always been true until now because there is always a general consensus that every piece of art is obviously made by some person. If Internet starts tagging what is AI and what isn’t then do you think that it is possible people will gravitate towards human made ?
I keep thinking of this quote from Brian Eno. While it's about older tech, I feel its perspective is relevant to this conversation.
"The great benefit of computer sequencers is that they remove the issue of skill, and replace it with the issue of judgement. […] So the question becomes not whether you can do it or not, because any drudge can do it if they’re prepared to sit in front of the computer for a few days, the question then is, ‘Of all the things you can now do, which do you choose to do?’"
AI music is soulless.
I don't need perfection, I need something made by someone who has lived and experienced pain, joy, sadness, rage...because through the experiences, we learn and then if you are a musician, you can transform your feelings into music. AI cannot replace the soul you put into your performance every time you record a new piano track.
Greetings from Germany
AI can easily create imperfect music, it is your choice, you're not constrained by perfection.
there will be algorithms to add "soul" to music, and "souless generative music" was here long before AI. Autechre is basically just algorithmic music and they've been around since the 90s.
"The human connection is about to become more scarce, and that's about to make it a lot more valuable." This. This. THIS! Fantastic video!
If someone is putting out music where they used an AI to copy and publish an exact copy of your work, then they have violated copyright law. Otherwise, as you say, the AI is just learning as we do.
What is derivative? Do you really want to go down the same silly path of artists trying to copyright guitar chords that we've seen pop up over the last few years.
I'm a photographer, and my photos are a mixture of myself and the hundreds of thousands of other photographer's photos that I have looked at over the decades. There is no way to separate my photos from my influences.
One could argue that, if you stick with it, you have an even larger chance of being able to keep at it, because others will give up.
Agreed
Just curious. Why would others giving up increase the odds that you’ll keep at it?
@@JayM928 The longer you stick with something, the more you learn the skills and attitudes required to be persistent, self-evident by the fact that you're still going. It also means you probably enjoy it enough that the process itself isn't deterring you, whereas anyone who tries it and doesn't enjoy it that much probably won't keep going for long. Just a feedback loop of motivation + compounding skill, and statistical assumptions.
AI has a much easier time sounding like Beethoven than sounding like me…
I'm still relatively new to the musical arts, just as all of this Ai stuff is coming into play. If the music is not coming directly from my brain, I want nothing to do with it, even if it does sound better than what I can write. The entire point of my music-making journey is to express my art with sound, for better or worse. I'm not trying to "crank out beats" to make a buck.
Agreed I'd rather die in my pit of mediocracy than let something make music for me. My music may not be amazing, but I made it all.
@@Vaxter701 same. At first I felt like it's fine to use one layer you like from a generated song mixed in with your actual real stuff.. But the more that piece contributed to the sound, the less I felt like it was Even my track, despite only being 5% generated, felt 100% shameful
@@zoned7609 to me its no different to buying a midi pack using one of the midi files in it and talking about this track "I made" I'm sure some will love it and more power to them but it aint me and it never will be.
@@Vaxter701 I have one of those big midi packs and all of the hundreds of chord progressions and melodies start to sound the same after some exploring. I definitely use them as starter ideas, but not as finished music. And that's not because they're bad... it's just that I've lost the opportunity to create something of my own if I wholesale drop in a midi to my song
@@marcus_ohreallyus exctly that,I sometimes use loops from sample packs when I'm getting an idea going but they wont be there in the final track.
Your perspectives on AI are among the wisest I've seen on RUclips. I have long been concerned about AI as well. I feel completely hopeless and in despair, yet I still plod on with my music. I am afraid that AI is negatively altering society's view on the value of art and artists. I used to not care what others think, but that was before it became a possibility that others might think that my music is created by AI when I have spent a lifetime pouring my heart and soul into it. Though I feel hopeless because of AI, I nevertheless continue working on my music. I agree that cultivating more of a human connection with my audience is increasingly important. One of the reasons why I started leaving my livestreams up on my RUclips channel (rather than taking them down immediately) is to create more of a human element with my online presence. I too just wanted to be an obscure anonymous artist hiding in the shadows putting out weird albums every few years, but I'm profoundly worried about the vanishing human connection of the digital age and I want to rebel against that. (I also somewhat rebel against the 1-dimensionality of "content culture" and sometimes get into other topics besides music.) Besides online activities, I also play live music with bands, which is also good for human connection and I have been doing that for years.
"Make music, because you love music". Exactly. Making music out of hope for recognition and fame was an inadvisable mindset before AI, before the internet and before computers. Welcome to the 99 %, let's learn to love ourselves and each other, seek inner peace, even though we may be stuck in mediocrity or invisible brilliance.
I think what you said about reverse democratization is true for all other areas that are affected by AI, which is, from how developments of it look like, is pretty much anything. The human connection will still be valuable, but I think it will take all of us, regardless of what you do, into niche areas.
Businesses (music or any other) as always will try to output as much as possible in the cheapest way possible, so I think it will eventually it will take away from us the luxury of being average at something. If you produce average music just for the sake of doing it, there's already a small chance of making it there and it will be significantly reduced. Hence we'll need to specialize: be being good at making live shows or whatever.
One extra piece of hope might be humans' irrationality. Sync exists there for DJs for god knows how long, but if you turn up to some underground venue and use that, it might be your last show there. So, the hunt for "the real thing" is what might save us.
I've only made a few hundred dollars in my music career, but its been dawning on me. I've been living my dream of working on music for years now. I don't need money, fame, or recognition. But I do have to try and get my music as far as possible, there is a chance, that something I create can impact someone positively somewhere. I now understand my selfish and selfless reasons do work on music.
To anyone debating if they should continue making music, please do. For yourself, me and everyone else.
Thank you Jameson I think you nailed this one on the head!
I said to a music budy: finally i can listen to music without needing to care about the artist, i fell in love with music, not with artists.
Art and music generated by AI will always resemble the kind you find in malls, corporate lobbies, and popular online prints. AI music will thrive, even producing chart-topping hits. The masses tend to favor products made in this style, much like the items found in supermarkets, Walmart, and Target.
Don't you think people quickly will get bored by it?
Agree 100%. I compose for the pleasure of composing. Nice if others like my music, if not, tough luck. AI will never replace Human creativity and the pleasure in doing it. It only replicates predictable results. I will never go to see an AI "playing live" on a stage. Others may though.
As a purely hobbyist music maker I’ve the benefit of never producing products, I make my music and four or five other people will ever hear it and it has achieved its purpose by being created. AI and most other musicians will always be “better” than me but AI and those better musicians even given the same starting point will never make the things I do. For music professionals the world looks scary right now but remember, the phonograph destroyed the sort of jobs musicians got before it’s existence but musicians wound up with opportunities that were literally unimaginable before that, the same cycle happened with radio, internet, home production, ect. Keep honing your craft, there will be ways to make it into money that will blow your mind when they are discovered. That is just the sort of creature humans are.
I agree with some things. Listening to someone playing an instrument in the same room will be more valuable. Probably mainly smaller concerts. Stadium concerts are already often close to karaoke. But I think you and many others underestimate what ai will be able to do. It will create “new” music at least as well as humans. And no one will know if something they listen to is made by ai. A lot of “songwriters” will claim that something isn’t ai when it is. To see a silver lining in this situation seems forced to me. This is a catastrophe for most professional songwriters and composers who has spent years and decades to learn a craft. Your channel, which I enjoy very much, will be fine, though, because it’s about the process, and thoughts about making music.
I will add: have you guys seen the videos where AI is playing hide and seek? It breaks the game, thinking outside of the box. The creators were surprised. Ai will be able to create very original music, and even new genres of music.
I do a lot of things. As an artist I was devastated about the AI art thing. Now music takes a hit. I have learned to accept it. I'm not that worried now. I make art and music for myself. If someone else enjoys it, great. If not, who cares? I do it for me as an expression, and to heal my soul. That is all that really matters in the end, isn't it?
Right on. Arguably my biggest beef with AI is all the snake oil salesmen chanting that it’s going to completely change the world, and for some inane reason replace all the creative jobs (but not the mundane ones??).
But to your point, when AI is busy trying to replace the creative arts, it’s indeed missing all the happy accidents that truly makes art great.
I’d like to think I’m becoming a journeyman level in music, and almost all my productions evolve out of experimentation, leaps of faith, and indeed, accrued knowledge of how things work - in this space, and other creative spaces.
The ultimate goal of corporations is to maximise profit and reduce workforce, unfortunately. But I'm hopeful since these technologies are basically unable of incremental creation based on human feedback. It's mostly one-off tools, be it in music or software engineering (my domain). There will always be jobs for real musicians, real sofware engineers, in my opinion.
AI can't impress the girls like a live musician can .. so, relax - it'll be a short period like during the pandemic where people started live streaming concerts .. it died, like the AI also eventually will :) - Embrace it as a new source of inpiration :)
The consumption of music was already democratized....and that's all this is. Creating has also been democratized to an extent, but will always require individual skill, and AI "generated" music will always be necessarily derivative and in the absence of a pool of continued human creativity; self-referential. I have no interest in music NOT created by a living being, and many (many) people feel the same way. That's not to say that I reject generative music or even AI tools in the hands of a musician; but that's the point....it need be in the hands of a musician, for that's where true creativity (and emotion) lies. Your generous and insightful videos are a great example of the real, tangible, genuine and human sharing and connection I am, and always will be, looking for. AI, like any other tool, can be misused. Tools ought to serve us, as individuals and as a species, for our ends. We are ultimately not served (even if the "powers that be" think, in a shortsighted way, that they are) by an AI that displaces artists. What a cold, emotionless and yet cacophonous world that would be.....with the echoes of emotion and creativity all around us, but intangibly "hidden," just beyond our grasp as we catch glimpses of those ghosts of true creativity that slowly fade as the *machine* devolves further and further into that self-referential malaise. I believe there is an "other side" to "get to" in this most interesting of eras...and that side does once again embrace human creativity. In the meantime, we should all keep creating, improving, and most importantly enjoying the journey. Thanks JNJ, for all you contribute.
Lots to say... but simply put: AI product -> corporate/mass consumer.... Human product -> 'boutique'/people who *appreciate* music as more of a human 'commune-i-cation' than simply a 'product'...
I am a software engineer. The company I work for is diving neck deep into AI.
But, I have precisely zero interest in listening to or watching art created by an AI.
I want to listen to and watch art created by humans - its one of the defining things that makes us human.
I don't listen to Spotify.... at all.
I get my music from Bandcamp, buy finding people just like you Jameson. Yes, I actually buy music, made by CREATIVE humans. It's the creativity and artistry that I desire, respect and admire. And hopefully one day will actually contribute some of my own creativity for the world to see and listen to.
As someone who earns a living from technology, I appreciate AI has its place.... as a tool. But it does NOT have a place in creativity. Sure, some will try and convince you it does, but prompt engineering and the thing that results is not creative. It's just a mashup of other peoples creativity. That does not make it art.
The technology is interesting. The output is shit trash.
Call me a grumpy old man. I don't care, I've been called much worse. I remember when Punk came along, looked at Fleetwood Mac, Foreigner, the second version of Journey, etc. and said, "Hey, I can do that". That didn't take anything away from those audiences, it added a new one. I sense that AI in music will be appealing to some, but not all. Maybe TV, Movie, and Record Labels (do they still exist?) looking for a quick and cheap product to apply to their current project will go nuts over it. People who want to enjoy the journey of the artist, the magic of evoking emotions, expressing emotions, these folks will always side with the human artist. My $0.02 belief. Also, Frank Zappa said decades ago: "the present day composer refuses to die".
I love listening to music, even more discovering the person behind the music, just like I discovered your music and then your channel and your personality. Music regurgigated from a machine might sound good but remains uninspiring.
Inspirational video as always Jameson! Just watching you play just makes me want leave the office straight to my studio playing around and going into that rabbit hole.
P.S. what's the name of the track playing behind the chapter named The "Democratization" Myth? around 2:54? I went through almost all your tracks on Spotify and can't seem to find it :P (but discovering more tracks which I'm liking in the process XD)
If you have to ask what the point is, you shouldn't be making music. The making of it is the point.
someone once said, when artist voice breaks, that's what captures emotions. that is what people love. that became my philosophy. AI is sleek. but it doesn't break that way, for me, it doesn't carry that emotion that touches me.
Wonderful video. All the issues explained so clearly.
Human-made music is like an original painting by a famous artist, full of unique emotion and creativity. AI music, though impressive, is more like a high-quality print: technically excellent but missing that personal touch.
Some great thoughts here. A few of my own:
- Any 'revolution' in music started with a degree of disgust (e.g. Rock & Roll, punk, synth-pop etc). What self-respecting AI system is going to put out a disgusting piece of music?
- To many folk (myself included) the best music we create is the music that comes to our sub-conscious or through happy accidents.
- Music is subjective - what is beautifully subtle to one person might be cloyingly twee to another
These thoughts reassure me, because they are wonderfully-human, and I can't imagine AI recreating that in the near future.
What I can imagine is AI replacing humans in the creation of situation music to order - and it's already happening.
Lastly, I'm not scared of AI, because as you allude later in your video, I'm one of those folk who write music for the joy of it. AI will never be able to recreate my thought processes, unless they recreate me, and then every human that exists or is about to exist. We are all unique.
That said, AI does have a place - to help us humans focus on that unique creative process. For example, I'm already using Izotope's excellent AI engines in their mixing and mastering products. And recently, I was playing around with a sequencer engine (InSession Audio's Riff Generator) which is really rather good at it - as long as me, the human, comes along at the end and tweaks it to completion...
...and therein lies the difference between someone who can push a button to churn out a piece of music that they can claim to call 'theirs' vs me, who can produce a piece of music that legitimately is 'mine'.
The expectation of sitting around collecting royalties without performing or teaching was a brief anomaly of the 20th century, propped up by corporate/legal fictions. People grew up thinking since they paid 20 bucks for the music on the CD, then if they grew up to make music they'd get 20 bucks forever, but that was never the value of the _music_.
I don't think the "democratization" angle has a long term impact. "Look I made amazing music!" Well no you didn't and you know it. I think it will get boring because it really isn't personally edifying.
The corporate replacement thing will happen in a big way.
Unfortunately or fortunately its not going to really effect how much I make at music very much,
First, about AI taking jobs: Wait when the hype train is over and AI companies start really charging for their use, adjusted to the real cost of generating + their own fee. A starving artist will be cheaper (sadly, I would say). Second, as some people point: It is not iterative, it's a slot machine type of generation.
And third: If even with some grooveboxes, sequencers and synths played live, you have to hear "But the little machines do it all for you"... imagine with an AI? Performing is a part of music. AI is not a performing tool.
I tried to generate some black metal tracks, out of curiosity, but it was all crap. The AI was totally incapable of capturing the atmosphere, and rawness of black metal. Also, Metal Archives has banned AI music from its site.
Thank you! I completely agree. This is exactly what I've been telling people for the past year+ ... I couldn't care less about a piece of music generated by a bot, no matter how "good" it is. I want the human story behind the music, and AI will never touch that... until the androids start to dream of electric sheep, of course.
Very glad to find your channel today. I'm not a fan of artificial anything, but what can be done?!
I got started in the early 90's, then life came along with so many interruptions and I stopped creating.
Coming back into it, everything is so different. Back in the early days there were surges of experimental music, you could even say the genre had a pulse. And this pulse fueled further experimentation. It was a wonderful time to be an artist.
Thanks for sharing your perspective and in a non "doom and gloom" way.
Cheers.
Even before AI, there were tens of thousands of music tracks uploaded to the internet every day, most better than anything I can currently produce. Still I get a kick out of making and publishing music myself, just as seeing the magnificent Grand Canyon was an iconic experience for me, even though millions before me also have. I saw someone painting that glorious view, and I remember thinking how cool that was, even though I was taking much more detailed and accurate photographs with my phone.
I think you're spot-on, Jameson. This fear of AI is all-pervading at the moment but algorithm ≠ soul - as we already know from being on RUclips(!)
Thank you for not including AI in the title of this video because I would most likely have skipped and I have found it very triggering (in a good way).
Music technology from the very beginning; sticks and stones and hollow bone flutes, the next new invention has challenged and stretched the "musicians" who came before (eg keyed flutes and clarinets). Just as the arrival of photography did not kill the painted portrait and recording did not end our appetite for live music, in my long lifetime, the arrival of the drum machine in the late 70s created an hysterical furore about loss of work, when at the same time video and the use of pre recorded backing in supposedly "live" performance ( the so called P.A.) were much more disruptive to the work of live musicians.
As a visual artist as well as a sometime composer/songwriter, the shocking emergence of AI at first appears troubling but the closer we look and listen to what is produced by it the easier it is to understand that key values such as you describe are most often missing and one quickly discerns the work that has been subjected to the creative imagination that drives all art and the critical framework that refines it.
Of course, I have the luxury of not relying on my art for an income any more, so I am insulated from the immediate concerns most of your professional viewers will share but I truly believe that although it will be disruptive, artists will emerge/are emerging from the confusion to demonstrate that AI requires an inventive mind in order to produce something profound.
Perhaps what we fear is that the trajectory we are seeing leads towards the artificially creative mind? Well knowledge is not art. Knowledge and technology can facilitate art but those things are what drives the creation of new art media not the imagination which exploits them.
The printing press, the camera and indeed the drum machine have all inspired new art forms. So has AI. Its success is already apparent and the proliferation of dros equally so. Will it make the bone flute obsolete after 50,000 years? Probably not.
AI has finally democratized the music industry, the people who made music cuz the had the equipment to do it,now that everyone has access to this through AI , now they are crying, music was once live, then it was recorded, to DAW to prompt, imagine those who played Music in real time, before all the tech, don't you think they also felt the same way?
There will also be AI tools that musicians/composers can use. I have personally never heard anything good made by AI. I'm sure it is possible tho, at least eventually. AI music might be very bad for some music creators, but in general it will offer new opportunities as well. It will also change music in positive ways. There is no opportunrity but to embrace it somehow, because it seems unavoidable.
AI can’t stop you from having fun! Only you can can 😊
Hi interesting and thanks. You are an artist for sure. You are looking to me as always seeking the graal in your artistic expression. I ve been playing music for near 60 years now and crossed all these feelings since an era where even personal computers did not exist. So democratization was great to me but has to be kept as a mean.
Electronic & computer gear that I own is a trap, flashing so intense light that masking the unaccessible star of the music expression that will make me happy. In general, music is an illusion, except for dancing or soldiers parades, and so frustrating form of artistic expression because of the ephemeric aspect of it.
One drone note played on this or that machine, or being able to play a good guitar bass line in a band or playing (when not so badly!) Chopin ballade in F minor are unique value: vibrations from mind to guts and return. The satisfaction of achievement is a different thing, and comes from the effort to get it from my piano, my guitar or finding the right piece of elc gear, same.
From any kind of musical or artistic expression, any including AI, making music is an artificial world of happiness, but it is a real world of organismic pleasure. So I discovered that the way to find that vibration must be my goal, my reality; looking for a musical result is my illusion. "What if my dreams never come true ?" That is a fact and I have to look elsewhere.
I always try to get in mind the definition of artistic expression which is to create disorder by art that helps the human being to survive to the pressure of order. Including business rules of musical gear manufacturers or AI standardisation.
That is why by definition AI, component of this new order will never produce an artistic performance which is the proper of Human
AI is making music, possibly successful in music business and will be part of our culture, or our fashion.
What puzzles me is why anyone (with two brain cells to call their own) would be interested in music created by an AI? The process is statistically based - if this, then that-. Why should we care? On the other hand music created by human beings is an expression of our soul and warrants the interest and love of other humans because it's us talking about the experience of being a human on this planet. AI music is talking about the experience of hoovering up statistical information about music created in the past by humans. Who gives a flying %&*$ about that?
As depressing as it is to think about, a lot of the music audience just doesn't care. For many, listening to music is an entirely passive experience both intellectually and emotionally and as such, they are not really going to care what they are listening to as long as it serves them in the moment.
The big issue here isn't so much that people listen to AI music in the general sense. It is that AI generated music happened to hit the mainstream right after streaming services like Spotify have trained people to just "trust the algorithm" and become "lean back listeners" who don't really choose to listen to anything in particular and just take whatever they get from their "playlist to cook grilled cheese sandwiches to" or "playlist to study for your math final to".
For ambient musicians I understand.
I totally agree that the idea of having software just crank out an entire track based on a text prompt sucks all the fun right out of the process. However, I would love to have a language model woven into Reaper, for example, to help me do the things I don’t really like doing, such as drum accompaniment, mixing, mastering or other Backing tracks that aren’t really my creative focus. This would actually allow me to hone in even more on the things I was genuinely interested in. Of course there are already tools like this in some form or another, but none with such an easy interface as natural language. That’s a feature I would actually really enjoy
Play a dope as track on a grand piano and you'll see people quickly prefer that on the spot. Honestly, things always fall into place. I wouldn't worry too much about it. These technologies also create jo s as they destroy them. Unless you enjoy forecasting, I'd just concentrate on improving your craft and making sure that you're a life long student so that you can keep up with times. The rest will fall I to place.
I think maybe one day we will have to wall off the original internet, and start again. It was a good first try.
"They had these books... that were like the internet" Way to make me feel old... 😆
Personally, I'm not concerned by this ... because I never believed for a second that the creations of man will ever surpass its creators, much like we cannot surpass God. It doesn't stop those from trying ... and failing ;). Making art is a human ability (and I believe this was given to us by God as a reflection of His own image as He is also a creator) and that can't be replicated, certainly not in the way humans do it.
And yes, people are going to be attracted to the result/product. Fine. If anything, yes, this is a challenge for the rest of us who do care and give a damn about making something.
I will close with a poetic moment provided by Orson Welles a little more than half a century ago: "Our works in stone, in paint, in print, are spared, some of them, for a few decades or a millennium or two, but everything must finally fall in war, or wear away into the ultimate and universal ash - the triumphs, the frauds, the treasures and the fakes. A fact of life: we're going to die. "Be of good heart," cry the dead artists out of the living past. "Our songs will all be silenced, but what of it? Go on singing." Maybe a man's name doesn't matter all that much."
Godspeed.
Remember when A.I. was just an absolute flop of a movie?
So far I love udio and it’s a great source of inspiration. I think very soon I could upload my own ideas, sketches, etc and can co-write so much better than a human collaborator
I love that you’re grounded by your curiosity and by extension are enabling such philosophical views, this is what I find so fascinating about you. I get your questions and understand your fears but I don’t think Ai generated music is going to be a problem for us. I’m old enough to remember conversations of how synthesizers were going to ruin music followed by fears that samplers were going to replace the symphony orchestras but we have seen neither. I love hybrid music, synths and orchestral elements or entire sections requiring both brilliant composers and musicians to realise each piece. Ai sounds scary but in the end composers and musicians will determine which flavour of Ai music creation software will be the most popular and which will fall to the wayside just as DAW’s, samplers and synthesizers did so before it. Thanks for the discourse, I too was worried but your search for clarity made this subject easy for me to digest and I feel much better for it.
If you thought you could not have done;
Nor have done what they thought you could have,
Then why do you think you did what you didn’t do;
When they said that you would not do it?
Is it because what you are doing now,
Could be what you would have done,
If they had not thought that you couldn’t do it,
Once you finally do what you always knew, couldn't be done?
The great ninja teacher in Ninja Scroll playing flute by the riverside; the Hopi shaman singing to their peoples; campfire songs around the fires of friends… I could go on
well said and presented. it actually helped me start my day on a different foot and look in a different direction. very helpful and welcome. arigato
AI won’t hinder the highly skilled much. It very well could hinder those starting out. It has a chilling effect upon new artists to develop their craft to the point where they can put themselves out. If AI is putting out music better than those learning the craft, it deters them from pursuing the craft. It seems pointless because it would take time to beat the machine.
There are skills that can’t easily be replicated or synthesized. Every artist needs to get practical skills to supplement those musical skills to make a living.
change your relationship with music, see music as an action and less as a product.
I think that ultimately we’re going to see the rise of corporate music, the new musak that corporations will use so they don’t have to pay musicians to write their jingles or compose their old music. I also see personalized streaming services that will just make pleasant offensive background noise that some people will enjoy.
Then, on the other side, I see music, real music made by real people, has becoming something different. Becoming more important as the opposite to all of that bullshit. I see a patronage model emerging where people support their artists directly and separate streaming services forming that are more artist centered than the Spotify and Apple Music. There will also be things in between. Things have their place, but it’s going to be very difficult for creators who depend on their music to make a living to continue to do so. For many, this will just not be possible.
Just subscribed, what was that you’re doing with the cassette tape
Lemme know when AI can write a tune like Tipper… I’ll be waiting with baited breath.
I think the problem with AI isn't necessarily how easy it is to make because there are a metric ton of people like myself who only want to listen to music made by humans, the problem for me is the better it gets the harder it will be to tell what was made by people or an AI. Like with visual art you're always gonna be trying to work out what's what and in most cases you're not really going to know unless the person goes out of their way to make it clear they do or don't use AI. People can go on about how humans have a certain soul the AI lacks but when it actually comes to spotting the difference between the two, even if most of the time you can tell, is still often indistinguishable and it's just gonna get better and better.
30 years playing now in crying its over for us next hot bands well robots with always hit songs they play.
Lol regulation is not the answer
Now that generative AI is a thing , it is pointless to use it as a " tool " . AI became a way to obtain finished results without the need to use tools . Even if you improve your craft and spend hours / days / weeks ... doing something AI can't yet do by the time you are done millions of songs would have been generated and you will be instantly lost in the noise . Spotify was created in 2008 and since then they have lost around 5 billion dollars , never made a profit but they have disrupted the music industry . I think that they lost all of that money with AI in mind , they are now going to be able to offer custom original playlists in the style you like . We already had the unpopular " you will own nothing and be happy about it " now we are already hearing things like " you don't need to share your music with others in order to to be happy , you would be happier if you only do it for your own enjoyment " This technology is also going to allow flawless deep fakes and this is a major and unprecedented threat to our democracies . So not only we are going to have Orwell's " versificator" but AI is also going to cause many people to become useless in a lot of other fields over the course of a very very small period of time , it isn't only going to be about art / music ... If it doesn't trigger massive reaction , it will not end well : High tech / Low life
I know you!! Thankfully.
Man, all my respect for your superb musicianship, more so for your generosity in putting out this insightful and intelligent message, to cheer us fellow musicians, shaken and weirded by the latest music A.I developments.
The people on top of most Tech-A.I companies seem, by the kind of things they propel, devoid of balance, humanity and real care for arts and artists, and their logic is often chilly simplistic. It´s optimization, "democratization" and "easiness" at all costs. never mind the impacts. ( The much criticized apple ipad pro commercial of the hydraulic press can´t be more literal ).
They´ve all colluded to reprogram our very psyche into adoring the artifice instead of art, rage instead of debate, otherness instead of democracy. As musicians and imperfect translators of human emotion as you beautifully said, we might have a role still in steering the wheel towards our own sanity and in the end, to societal healing even if we are just a drop in an ocean of noise.
Well said! Process not product, journey not 'destination'. To regard music as purely a solution to a specific brief (as in an AI prompt) is to lose sight of the depths of music (and all authentic art forms) as that which expresses something fundamental, and mysterious, about the human spirit.
My music is real and always will be.
Wonderful video.
Love your videos good sir
systematic replacing human labor by some sort of technology is how capitalism works since the Renaissance, Marx himself analyzed it in the 19th century. what AI may create for creation looks like automated machines and simili slave labor in east Asia dis for fashion and garments. there is still hi quality humanly made clothes but they tend to be on the luxury side
AI is a threat mainly for the economics of creation. I'm not afraid for the art side, except for the fact it will force feed even more mediocre music in ads, background music, mall ambience etc which could really inpoverish what we collectively know and experience of music in pur daily lives
I just love it how all these AI companies always dodge the question "what was this trained on?". I wonder why...
PS: those three little notes you played at 1:33 were lovely.
Perhaps we should ask every musician what music they were trained on and have them pay royalties as if everything they make is a remix?
What a wonderful piece of music do you have there at the beginning! I'd love to hear some more... is there a full version?
Thank you! You can watch the whole thing here: ruclips.net/video/8vnOFEci0CA/видео.html :)
7:10 "it's not creating anything, it's combining things" is actually very incorrect. It's genuinely synthesizing new things based on criteria it understands.
If you've seen it reproduce real images perfectly, you'll find that someone used a highly focused set of data that excluded everything else other than the image it was extensively trained on
That model wouldn't be able to produce anything else, except abbetations of that image.
That isn't to say it's not still remembering copyrighted things as it synthesizes, but that's like saying someone who tried to mimic van gogh is performing plagiarism Rather than just calling it inspiration.
In truth what it does is learn to replicate a style, it does not collage.
That being said I stopped generating things with AI a while ago, not because I'm against the idea, but because I'm against the full on cynical capitalist cash grab that's followed it, salivating at a chance to finally run with it when they think it's good enough to make money.
I still think it's a great technology, but once again ruined by humanity and it's shortsightedness
While I appreciate that your tone was more measured than many others, I do think you have a bit of a false dichotomy view of the use of AI in music making. You can simply prompt the AI for a track and take it as is, but you can also give it lyrics to work from. Others are using them as things to layer on top of. It may be an AI, but there’s still a human involved.
I literally do this in this video...
@@JamesonNathanJones You may have mentioned it briefly, but the majority of it seems to present more of hard split between the two. Sorry if I came off as offensive.
Your thoughts and experiences align pretty perfectly with mine. Thank you. Subscribed
It is not very important what musicians think about this whole thing tbh. The only important thing is how masses will approach this. This is a driving force.
If music is only a product, sure. It isn't.
You're both correct. Udio's investors see a business opportunity, they don't care if it's "music" or anything else. The only metric there is ROI.
This is bad if your income relies for a significant part on elevator, supermarket or related background music. And a lot of musicians nowadays need that income.
The ones that can freely create, hobbyists (like me), or more established professionals, won't be worried or at least much less so.
I feel like I need to correct a misconception: AI based on deep learning is not just generating a random mashup of existing things - that's how David Cope's EMI system worked 45(!) years ago (more or less: decomposing existing music into short phrases, categorize them by tonal function, then recombine them). Deep learning actually builds its own abstractions and internal concepts. I cannot shake the uneasy feeling that in an economic system that consistently prioritizes short-term monetary gain over everything else, composing as a job will soon be a relic of the past, or a privilege for a select few (much like we don't paint many portraits anymore, nor do we copy manuscripts by hand anymore, nor do we have gas lighters to switch on the street lights in the evening etc). If the art of composing music is to stay alive and perhaps to evolve, it will probably have to be kept alive by hobbyists. If all it takes is pressing a button to get a full symphony, in my opinion it will completely devaluate the years of training it takes to learn to write a symphony. I do think that creators of "new art music" think they are safe, but that's only because the current AIs are being trained on stuff that is expected to sell well (economic system etc) - there's really nothing so special or different about their music that the AI couldn't be trained on that as well, a bit like Kodak thought they didn't need to go to digital cameras because analog photography would always be superior .. until they went bankrupt. Sorry I'm not in a good mood :D
💯👍
❤
Great video, Nathan. One perspective often discussed is the notion that AIs are inspired just as humans are. This comparison would hold if every human could access, recall, and modify every piece of music ever created. It's akin to expecting humans to match AIs in chess prowess. It's simply not a reasonable comparison. Cheers, Troels
Really good thinking! I'm completely turned off by listening to AI made music. I'm interested in sharing other peoples emotions. Functional music like commecials etc, fine, but otherwise the human element is going to be top priority for the future as it's always been.
That discovery browsing the encyclopedias made possible is partly replicated in the RUclips etc flow although it's now managed by algorithms in order to keep you glued to the screen or whatever logic it's programmed by. So the human joy of aimless browsing is still there but now more controlled.
Very interesting sight. (weirdly enough even for live musicians, the struggle is stronger and stronger). In the end it's summed up by 2 questions: 1) Can musicians live from their own music. 2) Why do we make music.
Very good thoughts - and I know I experience a lot of what you're talking about already. For example, I absolutely love listening to Hainbach's music when I know the processes he uses to make it - but other similar dark ambient/avant garde sounds are far less engaging to me if they pop up in a recommended list. It's the fact that Hainbach's passion was clear from his process, it helped me to explore the things he is looking at, and adds that human element you're speaking about.
Now, I do hope there won't be a need to ground any music we make in some sort of video or similar that communicates our humanness, but as video grows every more prevalent, I do wonder just how many people will listen to music for the sake of listening to music. I know I do far less often than I used to, and frankly than I would like.
The hard thing to process well is that in addition to AI making music-as-a-commodity extremely easy to get (or will soon be), we are experiencing more of our music as a commodity - backdrops for video/other media, generic clips to get viral on social media shorts, etc. I do think there'll always be people who listen to music for the sake of music - and they especially will seek out that which is created with craft, intention, and artistry. Part of me wonders whether that is a growing or shrinking group per capita. It might grow as we hear more and more generic music fill in, or it might shrink as the general population is just too saturated on music and don't desire to seek out more since they hear so much so readily, regardless of its quaility. Or maybe that is all over-blown on my part and not a huge amount will change, outside the music-related job opportunities for people to pop out jingles for ads and the latest Tik Tok viral video.
But I stick with your conclusion: continue to create music - and to be very intentional of your process, intentionality, and artistry. And be open to find ways of how we can communicate that with our potential audience.
I always view your videos twice; 1 for the vocals, 2 for the incredible soundtrack. Thank you for what you do! P.S. The piano piece that is in this video, does it have a title/place I can purchase it?
Actually I think the real point is: In history there has ALWAYS been a person, organization, orchestra, technology, whathaveyou which is BETTER than I could ever be. This would not stop me from making music. My very personal opinion is that AI is some form of hysterics right now, it's new so it's fancy but it will very soon get boring. We will of course see a No. 1 hit in the charts completely made by an AI. And this is good for the folks who as of now are using music just for some kind of background noise and are not listening to this beautiful art. But there will always be people out there who enjoys hand made music. That's by the way the reason why vinyl is growing again.
AI will not vanish and it will be a powerful tool in the hands of skilled musicians. But used by nerds or wanna-bes ... no ... it's just a side note in history.
I agree that the doom and gloom is useless. I'm disappointed to see comment sections and artist forums filled largely with sadness, cynicism and apathy. We should be angry. Furious. Companies cannot be allowed to use our copyrighted work in this way, especially for profit. The artists and rightsholders who have the resources to fight this in court are doing nothing. There has to be some way for us to fight back. Speaking out against this theft is the first step. I'm glad that you brought up the topic of training data because most people discussing this are not.
Very timely discussion and great synopsis. Thanks Jameson!
Wouldn't this be interesting: an AI assistant that recommends to study a certain composer, style or even instrument and generates tutorials, excercises or even a planner for this? This I'd find much more interesting than AI's that blurt out sounds that resemble music. 😊
Wait, you are not an AI !?
Great video, very much needed. This AI thing is just too crazy with misinformation. I genuinely thought we would use it as a tool to learn from. My Britannica never gets old btw!
I haven't thought of the future of AI that way, but you are right. People will be looking for art made by humans and ways to verify that it is, in fact, made by humans. So people who make it live or in videos will probably be more popular, until AI becomes good at faking those too, which won't be that far, now that I think about it... But the point is that there will still be a place for art. The only thing that will become very hard is starting new when you are nobody, which has never been easy I guess, but with the noise generated at blazing speed by AI it will become even worse.
Real made music will be more worthy again following all this as before digital monstrosity totally captured the market and soul decades ago.
At least i hope so, but i'm pretty sure.
Best video I've seen on the subject by far. Much love from Calgary, Alberta, Canada.