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Penn Line HO GG1 Restoration and Review
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2024
- Here's another model I wanted for a long time, and a couple months back, I came across a deal I couldn't refuse! It looked terrible, but was in surprisingly good condition and turned out very well in the end.
0:24 - History
2:16 - Restoration
26:24 - Review
As a SPF (Slobberin' Pennsy Freak). Great Job! You just have to feed it and one day, you will have a full sized GG1. Couola points 1) Although almost everyone calls in Brunswick Green, its official name was Dark Green Locomotive Enamel. The one thing PRR modelers agree on is that out of the bottle or can BG is NOT DGLE. What IS is a matter of endless debate 2) Don't worry about your model being loud. So were prototype GG1's. I stood on the platform at Penn Station Newark or New Brunswick to greet my dad after a business trip enough times to know that the blowers were blasting away!
You amaze me , sir with these productions. I love the total piece not to say the detailed process or restoration ( I wouldn't know where to begin). The orderly process and description of the work is easy and a joy to follow. Your calm direction of our watching makes this so simple to follow and enjoy.Its like taking a course in small engine repair and restore. I also understand the filming, text, editing are a huge part of this. Its superb and thank you for the fun of watching your course on the GG1. I look forward to your work.
Achei muito lindo esse amor que você tem com os brinquedos e um sentimento que poucas pessoas tem na realidade só quem tem são as crianças que tem corações puros demais. Meus parabéns pelo seu trabalho 👏
Excellent video. I enjoy your projects and techniques for tackling model train restorations that would initially for myself be daunting to say the least. Once again inspired to look beyond the scope of my current interest. This was for me a random passing view that completely captured my attention. Thank you.
Back from the DEAD! An amazing transformation!
You are truly a model railroad craftsman,,,awesome video and restoration ,,,thanks for sharing,,Ken
Darth, I have many Penn-Line GG1's the green diode atached to the wight is for reversing headlights, Penn-Line made this engine in many variations including New Haven and Great Northern from 1956-1963 when Penn-Line went out of business in the late 60's Varney had the tooling and made this engine until they sold out to Life-like and Life-like sold off the rest of Varney's stock.Bowser did get the tooling for the GG 1 but they never made it Hope this helps with the history of this engine
Thanks! The diode/rectifier did work for the directional lights once I had this all back together. Pretty impressive that they had that back when vacuum tubes were still common for electronics!
@@DarthSantaFe It's an old-fashioned (pre solid-state) diode. A rectifier converts AC to DC via a capacitor and four diodes arranged in a "Wheatstone Bridge."
@@Greatdome99 I was just calling it what Penn Line did in the manual. :) Since both lights are connected to it, it seems to operate like 2 standard diodes wired in series, with the track power in the middle and the light bulbs at each end.
Everyone's favorite loco and you were sterling in the restoration! Thanks so much - L&S
Beautiful work, as usual. It's a stunning model.
Awesome video as always. I have a mehano gg1. Thanks for all the great videos that help people like me learn how to fix they're own locomotives. You're videos are the best I've seen in detail to help beginners like me.
Glad my 1938 Meccanno Tin Plate Clockwork O gauge Freight Set No 1 is still boxed still runs properly
No restoration needed even after 84 year
Very nice! I’ve rarely seen any complete sets of that age in that kind of condition, so that’s definitely worth a lot in more ways than one!
@@DarthSantaFe ive got a collection of about 100 locomotives all 00 gauge but they are all boxed still and most are in mint condition as i just dont have the room to rebuild my layout. I still have me original Hornby Dublo crane set boxed but the otiginal green string has perished away after 62 years. M
@@DarthSantaFe if you have a Whatsapp address i will send you a few pics.
@@michaelcampin1464 I don't have a Whatsapp account, but it does sound like you have a very nice collection!
I have 18 Penn Line GG1s. I try to buy them in mint shape. I also have 11 Penn Line Decapods. These engines are indestructible. It bothers me to see the shape some are in. Abused by people who didn't know what they had. Early HO trains aren't like trains today. They were miniature machines meant to run forever and not wear out. I see you went to band drive. The noise the gears make I find appealing. It is the sound of a brut. I have 2 Varney GG1s and without the DC70 Pittman they are junk. The frame has to be modified but I was able to install DC70s. The gears are also inferior but none have exploded yet. I have two Schraeder GG1s. Its all heavy brass construction. Not very realistic looking but sports two monster DC71 Pittmans and can pull down a house. I have only seen one other advertised on Ebay in the last 5 years. Very rare I suppose. I see on Ebay Penn Line GG1s in New Haven. I can't find this in any Penn Line catalogue that I have seen. Do you know if these were actually made by Penn Line? Or was it a paint job and a decal set from a kit?
That’s quite a collection! It is sad to see when these have been treated so poorly. At the same time though, there’s also something satisfying about taking one of those beat up units and restoring it to look like new. I did keep the old gears in case I ever want to switch back, but the belt drive should hold up well as long as I take care of it.
It looks like the New Haven version was brought out in 1960 for train sets, but they did also make it separate at least in 1962: hoseeker.net/pennlineinformation.html
Not sure if you know already, but the PL Decapod's boiler is too small. PL used their K4/L1 boiler on it (Hey, 4-6-2, 2-8-2's and 2-10-0's have the same number of axles, right?). Cary made a tidy sum over the years providing scale size boilers to the Decapods. That ended when Bowser took over and began making their own scale boiler. I have one of each and the difference is pretty obvious. I explain it away by saying it was one off experimental made for PRR subsidiary, the Wrong Island Rail Way.
@@colbeausabre8842 And there was also the matter of different dome placement between the K4 and L1, so for the Penn Line originals, only the K4 was an accurate model.
Very nice! Blast from the past. We had a couple of these on the layout growing up. It always miffed me that the road numbers from the factory we not in the proper 4800-4900 series. It is also amusing that there is a Penn Line GG-1 in this world with 3D printed parts.
That was an odd choice not using any realistic road numbers on their pre-decorated models. I have to wonder what the reason was.
I thought of searching for an original part for the pilot, but then decided as long as I have the 3D printer, I might as well give that a shot first. :)
@@DarthSantaFe Now that I think of it (through the cobwebs of time) we had a third that had the truck frames disintegrate. Bad metallurgy. Nice to see you found a good one.
@@maestromecanico597 Yeah, that was a common problem back then with a lot of diecast products. Manufacturers didn't seem to realize how pure you have to get the metal to make it last a long time. One of the biggest examples is the American Flyer O-gauge 0-8-0. At least 99% of them disintegrated within 20 years including the one my grandpa owned. I still have the tender though, and it's one of the very few left in existence!
@@maestromecanico597 Le Zinc Pest en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_pest
Regular people cannot understand the love we have for scale and toy trains as well as our loaf of trains in general. When I see a Survivor from the 50s that is 70-something years old now and you take it apart and you fix it you get it running and you repaint it it's like rebuilding a classic motorcycle or a classic car from that era. When everything was built to last forever and we Americans made the best of everything. For instance Baldwin locomotive company when they built steam locomotive 20% of their production went overseas and with proper maintenance and Care those locomotive last forever can't say that about stuff made nowadays everything is made to be obsolete you can't fix it there no part and you end up throwing it in the garbage like a dead cell phone. Beautiful job on that locomotive. You can always paint it solid black and putting Penn Central decals on it but the slobbering Penzey Fraser probably want to kill you if you did that. Love the video wait to see more in the future
Amazing, Nice work! I do have two. It was the same thing. I remembered which had broken. I will look for a box somewhere in storage under the basement. Thumbs up! Cheers!
Here is a paint remover recommendation! This stuff called Dad's Easy Spray. It is a paint/varnish remover and is very strong. I have an old mantua kit I am restoring, and this was the only stuff that got the paint off. I believe they sell it at Lowe's and Menards maybe also Ace.
I have one of these my father purchased before I was born. I may need to restore it now. I also have a Penn Line T1 I purchased as an unassembled kit in the 90s. It’s built and runs great also. I need to get some decals for it since the originals were old and did not work.
Nice! As long as there are no broken parts, I'm sure it can be made into a good runner without too much trouble. :)
I have one of the later diecast Bowser T1 kits, which was based on the Penn Line model, and it's an insanely powerful engine. Since the PL model is made from lead, I imagine that it's got even more traction than my Bowser!
Really nice looking model! I see lots of them for sale online in pretty rough shape.
Excellent! Thank you for posting
Excellent video need more!
Beautiful restoration, decal work is impeccable.
Nice job looks good
Nice, I've wanted to do this for awhile now myself. I'll be referring to this video if I ever get one
I like your work, beautiful!
The old paint with lead lasted forever. Nowadays the paint Fades and flakes off because it's crap. Leaded paint with the best paint and leaded gas was the best gas. Love to see that locomotive circulate the layout.
Awesome video. I have a pennline GG1 in my collection.
Very nice job.
Very interesting, turned out lovely 👌
if you arent running a model restoration business, youre missing out on a serious opportunity
I probably make more from my full time job, but I do have something in the works.
Great video and thank you for sharing!!! This was amazing.
Excellent restoration and great decals.
Let's not forget having a diecast shell adds a lot of cost to a locomotive kit but gives it a heft for traction effort much better than a plastic shell. Weather diecast shell making the locomotive heavy you have to have a good quality motor I am so glad Bowser Port Penn Line because they're locomotive line of kits are excellent well worth the money
Nice
Not noisey, it is sound equipped!
Wait wait. This train could run off the power poles above the track?! Omg i hope you keep that feature. It would be good at train shows and stuff if you go to them or if you can because of the c-19 but still just the idea to have that feature is amazing
Yes, it can run so power comes from overhead wires and the right side rail. I clear coated over the pantographs to protect the finish, but that can easily be scraped away if I ever want to use overhead wires.
When you compare the small Lionel gg1 Electric 2 a scale pg1 Electric the smaller version resembles a streamlined p5a which they call the baby gg1. I models of Penn Central and o-gauge three rail started with my Subway car sets from Mike's train house so I have an easy rationalization for the third rail being there and I run all of my electric pantograph down like my ep 5 because that's what they did when they were in third rail territory. It seems that all of the gg1 Electric regardless of manufacturer and scale all seem to be equipped to be able to run off the Pantagraph. For instance you can run a Lionel Tri-Rail gg1 onto rail with pantograph and you could use three rail cars because there's nothing to short-circuit them like if they were on a two rail track. For me I would rather we had trains and tracks going everywhere instead of interstate highways and Roads.
A wonderful video! Gorgeous loco too. Have you thought about purchasing a remagnetizer? The reason I ask is that fitting very powerful neo magnets can sometimes cause the bearings to wear on those motors. There is a guy in the U.K. called Ronald Dodd who manufactures remagnetizers that work very well for these Pittman style motors. I purchased one myself and it brings these old motors back to life. You can look him up he has videos here on youtube. I subscribed to your channel your stuff is great, thanks!
I would throw ever flat head screw away and replace them with Phillips.
Looks like the motor axle is easy to upgrade with a heavy flywheel.
That would improve the running behaviour to a much smoother run, which looks much more realistic.
A large non-polarised capacitor (10mF/35V) connected acrost the brush terminals would further improve it.
Consider doing the math for the correct scale speed, instead of running the motor at full rail voltage.
e.g. if realtime max speed for the engine is 40mph,
then scale speed is 40mhp/87 = 0.46mph = 0.675 ft/sec ~ 8"/sec
Thanks for the video !
Thank you for sharing.👍
Really nice work! Love the new paint although to see one in NYC colors certainly would have been interesting
It would be interesting! I really just put that in though to troll the guys who were horrified when I repainted a PRR E7 into NYC colors. :D
@@DarthSantaFe I think it'll work really well! I love you're restorations and look forward to what's next!
Great work love the GG1's..........
And pulling the sides off a barn is a plus.
Thanks for the video very informative.
I have a question though : I've noticed you checked the polarity of the permanent magnet while you were replacing it. Can you tell me why did you do this and what happens if you put it the other way around?
Additionally, and If you want, I also found the removing of the paint and re painting informative, don't hesitate to include it in your videos!
Thank you
Regards,
Agustin
Thanks! I checked the polarity so that I could reverse it to work correctly with the belt drive. The original gear drive turns the wormshaft in the opposite direction of the motor, but the belt drive instead turns with the motor. By flipping the magnet, the motor turns the other way.
Try using oven cleaner next time. Apply. Wait 5 min. Soap, water and brush. Nice paint job‼
Awesome Work!
I think id change the plastic gears to metal ones it would probably prolong the life of the restoration.
You’d be surprised at how long properly made nylon gears can last! As long as they’re properly maintained, they can run practically forever.
Im more used to UK market where metal gears are used as standard although since the merger of Hornby and Triang the body shells are all plastic unlike the early ones which were die cast and had greater adhesion and hence pulling power. I wont buy Bachmann as over priced and no good on tight curves
With the time you put in you should have primed filled and wet sanded for a perfect paint job there were bits I saw you miss on cleaning hopefully it was done of camera as for the motor most of these work after a little cleaning but you could have just replaced with an upgraded motor as they are not really worth fixing unless it’s a valuable train being restored, something you could try is with the cup on the end of the worm gear it can be reinforced with a piece of heat shrink as they become brittle and split and they are somewhat harder to find a good replacement, still a good try but a small media blaster will take you to the next level.
Thanks for the suggestions! I did consider doing some filling and sanding, but decided in the end to let the model keep a bit of the "vintage" appearance from the slightly rough casting (I do try to fill in rough spots on some of my other projects). The Pittman motor is as smooth and dependable as a good quality can motor when tuned correctly, so the magnet upgrade was a cheaper way to improve the performance. The cup joints on mine are actually still in really good shape, so I'll keep them as long as they're working. :)
Based on year it was probably lead based paint rather than enamel
Wow... the exterior design of the GG1 was a creation of famed industrial designer Raymond Loewy...
Maintaining the complicated paint scheme was expensive which is why the Pennsylvania Railroad simplified it. Personally I like the black gg1 that the Penn Central ran.
Could have been some lead base paint
The noisiness was part of the allure of theses trains , but then all of us from that era were noisy !
Just asking…
Why do Jouef BB models rattle on Fleischmann profi rails.
Or is that just me ?
It could be that some of the older models have flanges even larger than the track can handle, but I can’t say for sure. The flanges on my old Jouef electric are so large that they ride up on my code 100 switches.
I have one of these, a Varney, and the drive wheels have some kind of white metal inside brass rims. The white metal has bulged out on the back side of the wheel and is so tight against the inside block that they won't turn. I started to make resin copies of the AHM wheel interior that has better detail to put inside the Varney rim and got one replacement made before losing interest. any other ideas about how to repair these wheels?
The wheels for these show up on eBay sometimes, so you might be able to find some good originals. If you don't mind less detail, you may also be able to use some simpler wheels of the correct size. The cast wheels were made from zinc, which expands and falls apart if it wasn't perfectly pure when it was cast.
@@DarthSantaFe Thanks, I hadn't thought of using solid brass wheels, or I could go on with making resin centers. For now I have trolleys and interurbans taking up my attention. I will have to do something about the heavy electrics in my collection though.
Sounds like they have zinc pest, which incurable.
Great video. Back in 2012 I found a fixer upper GHC Penn Line GG1 cheap. Unfortunately it was missing the Pittman motor/gear so it sat in its box until recently. Could you share what parts you used to convert yours to band drive?
The pulleys were made from scratch with my 3D printer. There may be some of similar size out there, but it should also be possible to turn some from plastic or metal rod. The belt came from Athearn, who still sells packs of them for their old Hi-F drives.
Did you use primer before painting? That’s probably why the metal problems showed underneath the paint
I didn’t use primer, but I’ve found on previous models that the metal imperfections still showed through even with primer (unless the coat was very heavy). I rarely use it now since I prefer to keep the details looking as sharp as possible. :)
I would like to see you tackle a Jouef 1980's TGV.
Maybe eventually! I do like the TGVs.
@@DarthSantaFe Great! Because, I have one one and the powered truck is all traction tires and the motor is an ancient 3 pole with a bad gear setup. (Edit): It would be interesting to see you come up with a way to improve it to modern standards. I plan on attempting it, but I am having a tough time figuring how I will start later on. It has a lot of space inside though!
Everybody goes on about how we need High-Speed Rail and we had High-Speed Rail and everybody took the plane or the car. Tg1 with Run 100 miles an hour with a 10 or 12 car train. A standard passenger car weighs 100 tons. Electric locomotives accelerate their trains to running speed much faster than a diesel can
Awesome
I just subscribed…love watching these videos. I’m new at this hobby and my question is….unlike today when you just walk into a store and buy a loco already assembled in a nice box; you keep referring to these old locos as “kits”. Does that mean you used to buy these trains and assembled them yourself? You would order the model you liked and then picked the various options….motors etc. and built your own loco?
Thanks!
Back in the early days of HO scale, just about everything came in kit form if you weren't scratch building, and most of the decent kits came from Varney, MDC/Roundhouse, Mantua, Bowser, Penn Line, Lindsay and Hobbytown. Until the mid to late 50's, quality ready to run models were pretty rare! Most kits did include the motor and wheels, but it really was a craftsman's hobby involving a lot of custom work for a long time.
Your restoration is good, but you lost speed when you changed to a BA d drive. Your torque went up though because of the smaller trasfer. I also know you could have recharged your old magnet using the rare earth magnet that you purchased. There is an article on this very thing if you want go search for the article. Otherwise, you changed the specks a little. Hope this helps. I also saw the recharger that the man in England. Had built, but the same can performed with a neodymium magnet.
It's actually a 1:1 transfer with both the gearing and belt drive, so the speed from the gear + transfer ratio is the same. The motor's top speed was reduced by the high-power magnet, but it actually resulted in a slightly increased speed because the old magnet was too weak to drive it. I have recharged magnets before in motors where the magnet isn't easily replaced, but for motors like this one, it's easier to swap out the magnet, and you get a stronger level of magnetism that the old Alnico magnets can't maintain due to the limits of the material vs the newer neodymium alloy.
Greetings, I follow your work. Good stuff. Please inform what grease and lubricants you use. Thx.
Thanks! I use ATF for bearings and white lithium grease for the gears.
@@DarthSantaFe dextron II, III, ATF Ford? just kidding...
Rule 1, Clean the motor while it's apart
I normally do, but this one was clean enough already that it only needed a little oil.
$49.50 in 1956! Wow.
I should send you my dutchess of athall 3 track loco to restore for me
I could give that a try if you want! You can contact me to work something out at darthsantafe@gmail.com.
bagus
I just don’t understand, why most people can’t primer it and sand it, so the finish on it could be more smooth and professional.With all the work it took to put on the decals, I think it was a waste of time.And if the train is green, I need to get my eyes checked, because it sure looks like pure black to me.It came in, black, green, maroon, and silver. That’s definitely black.
More coats of paint tend to obscure very fine details. Maybe it would have been better for this one, but for something like a very fine brass model with a perfectly smooth surface, the thinner the coat, the better it is (as long as it’s opaque).
PRR’s green was nearly black. My basement’s lighting isn’t the best for this, but when shown under brighter light, the hint of green in the paint becomes more apparent.
You should put an engineer and fireman in the locomotive while you had it apart.
Personally, I really like your mechanical stuff but your painting skills are less than stellar. I think you would have been better off stripping the shell and starting from scratch.
There are much better painters than me out there, but I do the best I can. The finished results are after I stripped it and restarted from my failed first attempt.
You could have used metal gears.
The plastic gears in the trucks work fine, so I didn’t see any need to replace them. I replaced the tower gears with a belt drive only to reduce noise (metal gears would be even noisier).
Such a shame that they did not make it scale length instead of shortening it and compromising its realism. Personally I would rather have a locomotive scale length and then use bigger radius track to accommodate the bigger locomotive. After all that's prototypical in real life.