It appears that most folks who have reviewed / demoed the stones have never watched your RUclips video on the product. - 10 full strokes per grit trailing (3" blade) to prevent chipping - Less pressure than most stones - Clean with 90% alcohol and a paper towel- Lapping after extended use to remove binder and expose diamond grit I suspect that the binder is slightly softer and fewer of the diamonds are lost / torn out. The process is very similar to how I use lapping film
I have watched your VIDEO here about four times and YOUR EXPLANATIONS are Extremely good. Frankly, the Best I have EVER seen on the Edge Pro via RUclips. YOU confirmed all my experiences on some 60 knives. If, BIG IF, YOU have the motivation PLEASE do, say, a Spyderco in CPM-S30V or CPM-S110V. The biggest reason(s) is "your comments from experience IMPART ten times the information that MOST other do" - YOU my friend, are a GREAT TEACHER.
I dont mean to be so offtopic but does anybody know of a method to log back into an instagram account? I was dumb forgot my password. I love any tips you can give me
@Ishaan Bruce Thanks so much for your reply. I found the site thru google and Im trying it out atm. Takes quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Well done video simple common sense approach - LOVE the limitation of 10 strokes with LIGHT pressure(s). And Barkingspider's OUTLINE below... Biggest thing for ME was your RIGHT HANDED ONLY control... Simple but effective for poundage control...
I can definitely agree with you on the Shapton Glass 16k. The 8k actually polishes better. The 16k leaves some very weird and deep scratches that were not there prior to the 8k
Im dreaming about this set but 350$ in the country where i moved is basically my entire month vage.. Ive got one as a gift 2300# and its just different level of pleasure from sharpening.. Thank you for video David🙏 Marry Christmass and Happy New Year 2021🎄
That is basically my dream sharpener, what you’ve conjured up there. I always thought it would be a great idea if the corners were gone so you didn’t have to worry about running into the table with the stone sharpening the tip of the knife.
It was mine too, but I have one in my head that wouldn't need compensated for different stone thicknesses. I have 3 different table ends, 2", 3" and a 5". I still need to make an integrated scissor sharpener end, one day, maybe. At least the slide guide made it to production.
@@CGSW That would be really interesting to see. I don't think there is anything out that has solved that problem yet. Man that is pretty much the ultimate system then, I didn't know you had different table ends too. To have a 2" table end with magnet would be really great for keeping the smaller knives steady. Hope you make more sharpening videos in the future I really enjoy this one.
@@The335plyr Here is a video that you may find interesting ruclips.net/video/8DxKBt-ONNY/видео.html It is an articulating arm type but the execution leaves a lot to be desired IMO. I have several videos I want to do incorporating images from my microscope showing what is really happening but I don't have the time. Right now I am totally focused on getting my bench stones to market, which should be soon now. I just got the diamond 5 minutes ago so now all I have to do is mold them up, when I have time. Probably the next video will be showing them and some new stone holder items for freehand sharpening I will be making.
@@CGSW The idea behind that sharpener is impressive - the micro adjuster for the blade table and freedom of movement in the arm. I think your bench stones will be just as big of a hit as your edge pro format. I wish you the best with that release. I look forward to seeing you demo those in the future. Do you ever see any of your sharpening systems being for sale / going into production down the road?
@@The335plyr I doubt I will ever make and sell guided sharpeners. I have been doing work for EP for 26 years now so I could only sell to them, it wouldn't be right to compete. That means it would have to meet their approval, we don't always agree on design, and there would be 2 markups after mine making it pretty expensive which would reduce volume, which makes it far less interesting for me.
I have success sharpening my maxamet after following your 'backstrobe' only method on all the stone grit.. before this i always get small chipping maybe because im too rough strobing it two way with diamond stone.
I think of Maxamet as similar to ceramic is many ways when sharpening. It too is very sensitive to too much localized pressure and chipping so you have to be somewhat gentle. I have had a chunk flake off of the back of the bevel because of poor stroping! I was experimenting with a cream carrier for the diamonds which caused the leather strop to drag a little bit more on the blade than a water based carrier. That extra drag caused enough localized pressure to pop a big chip in the apex and backside of the bevel.
That sharpener is awesome. I just purchased edge pro apex and would trade it for yours in a split second. Your slide guide looks way superior to edge pro’s
Yeah, I love this sharpener too, but it still has a lot of issues. The next one will be multitudes better, and look nothing like this one. There is no reason for Slide Guide envy as the only difference between it and what EP sells is the width of the center piece. This one is 1" wide and the production versions use a 3/4" wide center. 1" is too wide for the Apex but 3/4" works fine for the Pro. Actually, what EP sells is better since I have reduced the clearance between the parts by .004" from the one in this video, the advantage of production vs prototype.
Thanks for the great video. I was trying to re-profile a VG10 Nakiri this weekend. I have the full set of EP DM. Started on the 80. It just would not bite... Got there in the end, but really slow. It was gliding not cutting. The bevel wasn't massive; the knife is fairly thin at the tip and I was doing 14deg per side. I used some stroppy stuff honing oil. Now that i know water is best, i'll stick to that. I did dress the stones first, using the 60 grit powder on the round EP glass base.. Any ideas why it cut so slow (and didn't feel like it was cutting)?
When I have dressed the 80 with 60 grit abrasive I can't get it to cut very aggressively, it takes at least a 30 grit or lower abrasive to reach it's full potential.
Great video...I love the insight and knowledge. I have been sharpening for over 15 years and have been using your Diamond Matrix stones from EP for around 2 years now. When it comes to stropping, is there a particular type of leather you prefer over other types? And what type of compound/abrasive do you recommend for polishing and sharpening.
I have only tried veg tanned cowhide so far but have no problems with it so no reason to look further, yet. For abrasive I have only tried diamond so far but will be trying aluminum oxide in the next week or so. I ordered more diamond powder last Friday and asked for some aluminum oxide samples in the 1 to .1 micron range so we will see what I get. They responded that they rarely get requests for it this fine but at least have .5 on hand. I strongly recommend water carrier sprays and do not use any oils or waxes that can soften or make the leather sticky. I want the leather as hard and slick as possible to avoid convexing the apex. This is something I am very actively working on and will be posting some more videos about. The last video I did ended with a bit of stropping. I will be doing a casual BESS contest so I am trying to figure out how to get the absolute keenest edge for this contest, which my last video is the start of.
Never heard of it until now, but I am sticking to water and maybe a little dish soap. "A synthetic based petroleum lubricant" "It has penetrating qualities and oil/water solubility" makes me think that you don't want to get that on your skin. The first quote also would make me worry about it attacking the resin, although most don't. Other than preventing rust I really question the other claims they make, at least for manual sharpening.
15 dps on my Kyocera black nakiri and 17 dps on my Kyocera white paring knife. I will be sharpening both soon and will see how well they have held up at those angles over the last 18 or so months.
@@CGSW thank you very much for your fast reply. Great explanatory video! Can’t wait to test cleaning my stones. Will get myself a big bottle of isopropyl 90 or 99,9%
Hi l have stumbled onto your channel, and l subscribed, could you please tell me the make of your sharpening system. It looks very impressive without trying
I like it but that stone does not like grinding edges, only bevels. When setting a bevel I always start with either the 250 or 650 until I have a bevel started before going to the 80 to finish it with. Also keep the pressure very low until the bevel begins to widen. I think this technique is good advice for all coarse stones, not just the Matrix 80.
@@RazorSharpMuenchen I need to do a video to explain this, but for now here is a simplified answer. I do like this stone as it has a lot of large diamond crystals, but they don't like to grind on edges, even the 175 degree inclusive edge between the bevel and knife blade. These stones like a set bevel to grind on. While this is more of an issue for my 80 grit/ 160 micron stones it is also the same issue for any coarse stone. You really should set a bevel of .01"-.02" width with a finer stone then switch to your coarset stone so that coarse stone only grinds on a bevel, abeit small, but that at light pressure is far better for the stone than grinding on a point between two bevels. This said my coarsest stone shows it's dislike by losing diamonds. So to enjoy this stone performing best, and lasting the longest, whenever you change your bevel angle make a few passes with a finer stone before using the 80. Keep in mind this advice applies to all coarse stones. This rabbit hole is deep so I will wait until I do a video to go there, plus I can explain it better than through words alone.
@@CGSW thank you so much for your answer that really was helpful. Of course I want to use it the way it lasts the longest ;) Usually on really damaged edges I grind an new angle and remove chips with my belt sander and then was my plan to correct the edge from concex to straight with my tsprof and the matrix grit 80. I hope that kinda works! Mine should arrive today, I let you know what my experiences will be. With softer steel and also 65HRC+ super steel :) Thanks a lot mate! And keep up the content! Sharpening is so meditating ;)
I understand that these aren't the best option for softer, more conventional steels. About what hardness do you suggest these are best for and what type of stone do you typically prefer to use on the softer steels? (1x6 EP format stones)
The harder the better for these stones. The softest knives I have are some Chicago Cutlery I was given around 1986. The Matrix stones still work but I don't think they would work if the steel was any softer, I have to be careful with the pressure to get good results. I have a few Boride Alox stones from EP and a full set of Shapton Glass stones that I borrowed from them months ago, but I never use these stones because of the extra mess they make. Unlike the Matrix stones they break down some while in use so not only do you have metal particles but stone in the swarf. Another complaint is they are not all the same thickness so I have to worry about compensating, which I don't with my Matrix stones. The only knives I have sharpened in the last few years that the Matrix stones did not work on were a friend's Cuisinarts, which were so soft they belonged in the garbage. The diamonds made a mess of the steel, they just plowed scratches in the bevel. For those knives my boron carbide stones worked well, which is all they work well on. IMO if the steel is good enough that you like it in your knife then the Matrix stones will work as well as anything else. Because they almost don't wear, create less of a mess, are close enough in thickness that I don't have to compensate, and form smaller burrs than about any other sharpening medium they are all I use anymore when I just want to get my knives sharp.
@@CGSW Thanks for the information and quick reply. These diamond stones will definitely be added to my inventory. I've mostly used natural stones along with stropping. As I've started adding much harder steels to my collection it was quickly obvious that I was going to need to explore other methods of sharpening. I'm also looking to try a guided system for more consistency relative to freehand, that's how I came across these stones and eventually you. Looks like I'll invest in a set of these diamond stones as well as a set of either aluminum oxide or silicon carbide for the soft steels. Once again, thanks for taking the time to make these videos and reply to comments.
@@CGSW would these stones work for Wusthof knives or Henkels or are they over kill for these types of kitchen knives? Thanks for your response in advance...
Great video, really enjoyed it. BTW, do you have any plans on making larger matrix stones? Would be very interested in getting a set of these is 8"x3" and sure many others would be as well.
Yep, 1x4, 2x6, 2x8, and 3x8. I just finished the stops and will be starting on the fixture bodies by the weekend, once I get a run of polishing tape holders done. I have just over 200lbs of aluminum bodies cut up and ready to machine once I have the fixtures done.
@@NORTHWESTKNIFEGUY Myself through a website and I will sell wholesale too. The projected prices for those two stones is $75 and $100 for 40 micron and finer, a little more for the 80 and 160 stones. Hard anodized bodies will be an upgrade option.
@@Bravadosjebsimbahsm I am barely keeping up with production right now and have too many projects I need to do to take on any more. Besides, I never finished the one in the video and now have a modification I want to do to make it more stable.
The stones are Edge Pro Matrix which are available directly from them or any of their dealers. The sharpener is just something I made to try out some ideas I had and is one of a kind.
It's my homemade unit. I had a bunch of ideas I wanted to try out while work was slow a few years ago and one of them actually made it into production.
I am undecided about what to use for loaded strops right now. I like bare, smooth leather for my kitchen knives, and don't think what critter it came from really matters, but when you start loading it with something I am leaning towards 3M paper surgical tape on EPs polish tape holders. The thickness is far more consistent and when it gets old or contaminated you just replace the tape. Also I think it might not convex the edge as much as leather as it doesn't have as much give. I need to do some more testing to figure out what I think but just haven't had the time, too many projects and of course the ones that pay get the most attention. I got a BESS tester earlier this year so that and my microscope are really driving my opinions about this stuff.
Yeah, I call it a 650 because it fills the same position in the progression. I now have a 40 micron to fill that position, the 650 is 35 micron and the 450 is 50 micron.
80 stone scratch the bevel but it don't show how sharp the blade was before the sharpening and the video don't show actually a really work of the stone stone
Since this was the 8th or 10th attempt at making this video the knife was perfectly sharp to begin with, I just wanted to scratch the bevel with the 80 and not set it. I am not sure what you mean by "don't show actually a really work of the stone stone"?
so over complicated dude. you need no more than 3 stones/abrasives to do anything on a knife. including repairing damage like chips, sharpening an edge, and finishing/polishing to desired level. 3 stones. one course, one medium one fine, wow look at that, logic. all this "micro beveling" and nonsense. if you don't like the bevel or geometry then fix it. the issue with brittle steel like that is you kinda need big bevels for lack of toughness in this steel. I guarantee you I could make a knife in a basic stainless like AEBL that's ground much thinner with a real microbevel on it that will outcut this thing in any task any day of the week. All these gimmicky steels by gimmicky companies like SC are for low IQ knife bros (redundant, I know) that are afraid and or dont know how to sharpen, use and or maintain a knife and thus think they can find magical steel that lasts forever. Okay good luck with that when it snaps in half after you drop it or suffers catastrophic edge failure, aka chipping that exceeds the edge bevel from something as mundane as cutting a rope. it's the same appeal with super abrasives like this being slung to a consumer market. knife bros think it's magic. it's all voodoo I guess. I need magic stones for my magic knife, I don't even know how to use or maintain properly, you see?
@@CGSW for sure. I like vanadium steels as well, I just don't find anything beyond k390/10v to make much sense what so ever, even in niche applications. Favorite overall steel is maybe CPM D2. Night and day drastically different steel from regular D2. You can take the stuff into the mid 60's HRC and maintain better toughness than regular D2 in the high 50's. Doesn't require advanced abrasives to grind either, actually quite a bit easier (than ingot D2) to work with because of how fine the microstructure is .
It is interesting in how varied our personal preferences are concerning knives. After getting used to using these resin bond diamond stones I don't like conventional abrasives because of the mess they make. I have a full set of Shapton Glass stones I borrowed from EP a few years ago to play with and do a video comparison about but can't stand the mess they make. Because of how I use most of my knives I prefer a sticky sharp edge vs working/toothy/ edge. Just personal preference and opinion which I am sure will change as I learn more about the subject or my knife needs change.@@TimJohnson-x1o
@@CGSW to be fair shapton glass stones are designed to compete with the naniwa chosera stones, which are quite a bit more "friable" than something harder and releases less grit like Shapton Pro which is more similar to the Naniwa Habiki. The Chosera and Glass stones are designed to be versatile and work on large bevels as well as small bevels, hence the mess, which is what leaves a smoother finish on wider bevels, like you see in traditional Japanese knives. Compared to very mess muddy traditional stones, the glass and chosera are quite convenient. I do love diamond as an abrasive though, there is nothing else like it. The only limitation of diamond really is that it cuts everything and thus you can't really use it to get a "contrasting" finish between forge welded layers steels, or to get a "carbide rich" edge. other than that, diamond is absolutely game changing and awesome . to be fair, also when you're doing heavy powered grinding, ie not manual, in that case you might want CBN for the better heat management, but that's about it.
Hi I purchased a pricey bottle of lapping fluid for diamond sharpening stones.. I was told it's better than water but the only thing I know for sure is it cost way more,, Lol.. should I not use it on these new matrix stones I have coming in the mail and just send it back?
I would send it back and just use water or water with a drop of dish washing liquid. Yes, the lapping fluid may work to improve the rate of metal removal but if so it will probably amplify the scratches left. Then there is the question of what is in it and do you want it on your skin? It probably is safe to use on the resin in the stones but without knowing all the ingredients I can't say for certain. Some solvents will attack the resin, but if they do you do not want them on your skin as they will make it into your blood.
It appears that most folks who have reviewed / demoed the stones have never watched your RUclips video on the product.
- 10 full strokes per grit trailing (3" blade) to prevent chipping
- Less pressure than most stones
- Clean with 90% alcohol and a paper towel- Lapping after extended use to remove binder and expose diamond grit
I suspect that the binder is slightly softer and fewer of the diamonds are lost / torn out.
The process is very similar to how I use lapping film
I am in the UK so that might be a bit slow. But I’ve spotted some 20grit Silicone Carbide on Amazon here, so I shall give it a go!
I have watched your VIDEO here about four times and YOUR EXPLANATIONS are Extremely good. Frankly, the Best I have EVER seen on the
Edge Pro via RUclips. YOU confirmed all my experiences on some 60 knives.
If, BIG IF, YOU have the motivation PLEASE do, say, a Spyderco in CPM-S30V or CPM-S110V. The biggest reason(s) is "your comments
from experience IMPART ten times the information that MOST other do" - YOU my friend, are a GREAT TEACHER.
I dont mean to be so offtopic but does anybody know of a method to log back into an instagram account?
I was dumb forgot my password. I love any tips you can give me
@Omar Nova Instablaster ;)
@Ishaan Bruce Thanks so much for your reply. I found the site thru google and Im trying it out atm.
Takes quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Ishaan Bruce It did the trick and I finally got access to my account again. Im so happy:D
Thanks so much, you really help me out!
@Omar Nova happy to help :D
Well done video simple common sense approach - LOVE the limitation of 10 strokes with LIGHT
pressure(s). And Barkingspider's OUTLINE below...
Biggest thing for ME was your RIGHT HANDED ONLY control...
Simple but effective for poundage control...
I can definitely agree with you on the Shapton Glass 16k. The 8k actually polishes better. The 16k leaves some very weird and deep scratches that were not there prior to the 8k
I've got so much to learn
Me too!
Im dreaming about this set but 350$ in the country where i moved is basically my entire month vage.. Ive got one as a gift 2300# and its just different level of pleasure from sharpening.. Thank you for video David🙏 Marry Christmass and Happy New Year 2021🎄
That is basically my dream sharpener, what you’ve conjured up there. I always thought it would be a great idea if the corners were gone so you didn’t have to worry about running into the table with the stone sharpening the tip of the knife.
It was mine too, but I have one in my head that wouldn't need compensated for different stone thicknesses. I have 3 different table ends, 2", 3" and a 5". I still need to make an integrated scissor sharpener end, one day, maybe. At least the slide guide made it to production.
@@CGSW That would be really interesting to see. I don't think there is anything out that has solved that problem yet. Man that is pretty much the ultimate system then, I didn't know you had different table ends too. To have a 2" table end with magnet would be really great for keeping the smaller knives steady. Hope you make more sharpening videos in the future I really enjoy this one.
@@The335plyr Here is a video that you may find interesting ruclips.net/video/8DxKBt-ONNY/видео.html It is an articulating arm type but the execution leaves a lot to be desired IMO. I have several videos I want to do incorporating images from my microscope showing what is really happening but I don't have the time. Right now I am totally focused on getting my bench stones to market, which should be soon now. I just got the diamond 5 minutes ago so now all I have to do is mold them up, when I have time. Probably the next video will be showing them and some new stone holder items for freehand sharpening I will be making.
@@CGSW The idea behind that sharpener is impressive - the micro adjuster for the blade table and freedom of movement in the arm. I think your bench stones will be just as big of a hit as your edge pro format. I wish you the best with that release. I look forward to seeing you demo those in the future. Do you ever see any of your sharpening systems being for sale / going into production down the road?
@@The335plyr I doubt I will ever make and sell guided sharpeners. I have been doing work for EP for 26 years now so I could only sell to them, it wouldn't be right to compete. That means it would have to meet their approval, we don't always agree on design, and there would be 2 markups after mine making it pretty expensive which would reduce volume, which makes it far less interesting for me.
I have success sharpening my maxamet after following your 'backstrobe' only method on all the stone grit.. before this i always get small chipping maybe because im too rough strobing it two way with diamond stone.
I think of Maxamet as similar to ceramic is many ways when sharpening. It too is very sensitive to too much localized pressure and chipping so you have to be somewhat gentle. I have had a chunk flake off of the back of the bevel because of poor stroping! I was experimenting with a cream carrier for the diamonds which caused the leather strop to drag a little bit more on the blade than a water based carrier. That extra drag caused enough localized pressure to pop a big chip in the apex and backside of the bevel.
That sharpener is awesome. I just purchased edge pro apex and would trade it for yours in a split second. Your slide guide looks way superior to edge pro’s
Yeah, I love this sharpener too, but it still has a lot of issues. The next one will be multitudes better, and look nothing like this one. There is no reason for Slide Guide envy as the only difference between it and what EP sells is the width of the center piece. This one is 1" wide and the production versions use a 3/4" wide center. 1" is too wide for the Apex but 3/4" works fine for the Pro. Actually, what EP sells is better since I have reduced the clearance between the parts by .004" from the one in this video, the advantage of production vs prototype.
When using the edge pro is the tip of your blade behind the tables edge I have trouble getting my Spyderco knives setup in the edge pro
I use the 2" wide table for my Native 5 and Delica. Both are too small for a 3" table.
are Columbia gorge stones basically the same as edge pro matrix stones?
Thanks for the great video.
I was trying to re-profile a VG10 Nakiri this weekend. I have the full set of EP DM. Started on the 80. It just would not bite... Got there in the end, but really slow. It was gliding not cutting. The bevel wasn't massive; the knife is fairly thin at the tip and I was doing 14deg per side. I used some stroppy stuff honing oil. Now that i know water is best, i'll stick to that. I did dress the stones first, using the 60 grit powder on the round EP glass base.. Any ideas why it cut so slow (and didn't feel like it was cutting)?
When I have dressed the 80 with 60 grit abrasive I can't get it to cut very aggressively, it takes at least a 30 grit or lower abrasive to reach it's full potential.
Great. Very relieved to have the answer. Thanks so much for the reply. Off to find some 30grit!
@@morrisnickrdg EP and I both currently use 24 grit to dress them with, and I sell it on my website if you want.
Great video...I love the insight and knowledge. I have been sharpening for over 15 years and have been using your Diamond Matrix stones from EP for around 2 years now. When it comes to stropping, is there a particular type of leather you prefer over other types? And what type of compound/abrasive do you recommend for polishing and sharpening.
I have only tried veg tanned cowhide so far but have no problems with it so no reason to look further, yet. For abrasive I have only tried diamond so far but will be trying aluminum oxide in the next week or so. I ordered more diamond powder last Friday and asked for some aluminum oxide samples in the 1 to .1 micron range so we will see what I get. They responded that they rarely get requests for it this fine but at least have .5 on hand. I strongly recommend water carrier sprays and do not use any oils or waxes that can soften or make the leather sticky. I want the leather as hard and slick as possible to avoid convexing the apex. This is something I am very actively working on and will be posting some more videos about. The last video I did ended with a bit of stropping. I will be doing a casual BESS contest so I am trying to figure out how to get the absolute keenest edge for this contest, which my last video is the start of.
What about using Trend Diamond Lapping Fluid? I've been using it with my Diamond Metal/Aluminum plates with great success.
Never heard of it until now, but I am sticking to water and maybe a little dish soap. "A synthetic based petroleum lubricant" "It has penetrating qualities and oil/water solubility" makes me think that you don't want to get that on your skin. The first quote also would make me worry about it attacking the resin, although most don't. Other than preventing rust I really question the other claims they make, at least for manual sharpening.
What angle do you sharpen ceramic knives at?
15 dps on my Kyocera black nakiri and 17 dps on my Kyocera white paring knife. I will be sharpening both soon and will see how well they have held up at those angles over the last 18 or so months.
Do you sell these Slide Guides for the Edge Pro Apex Standard?
I make them for Edge Pro, they sell them.
What kind of cleaning alcohol are you using to clean the stones, I really don’t want to damage the resin :-)
I use rubbing alcohol, my current bottle is 90%. For cleaning the stronger the faster it works.
@@CGSW thank you very much for your fast reply. Great explanatory video! Can’t wait to test cleaning my stones. Will get myself a big bottle of isopropyl 90 or 99,9%
Hi l have stumbled onto your channel, and l subscribed, could you please tell me the make of your sharpening
system. It looks very impressive without trying
I made it myself.
I just ordered the grit 80, how do you like it ?
I like it but that stone does not like grinding edges, only bevels. When setting a bevel I always start with either the 250 or 650 until I have a bevel started before going to the 80 to finish it with. Also keep the pressure very low until the bevel begins to widen. I think this technique is good advice for all coarse stones, not just the Matrix 80.
@@CGSW ah okay so you dont like it to put a new edge or new angle on a knife ? Thought grit 80 will do the fastest job
@@RazorSharpMuenchen I need to do a video to explain this, but for now here is a simplified answer. I do like this stone as it has a lot of large diamond crystals, but they don't like to grind on edges, even the 175 degree inclusive edge between the bevel and knife blade. These stones like a set bevel to grind on. While this is more of an issue for my 80 grit/ 160 micron stones it is also the same issue for any coarse stone. You really should set a bevel of .01"-.02" width with a finer stone then switch to your coarset stone so that coarse stone only grinds on a bevel, abeit small, but that at light pressure is far better for the stone than grinding on a point between two bevels. This said my coarsest stone shows it's dislike by losing diamonds. So to enjoy this stone performing best, and lasting the longest, whenever you change your bevel angle make a few passes with a finer stone before using the 80. Keep in mind this advice applies to all coarse stones. This rabbit hole is deep so I will wait until I do a video to go there, plus I can explain it better than through words alone.
@@CGSW thank you so much for your answer that really was helpful. Of course I want to use it the way it lasts the longest ;)
Usually on really damaged edges I grind an new angle and remove chips with my belt sander and then was my plan to correct the edge from concex to straight with my tsprof and the matrix grit 80. I hope that kinda works! Mine should arrive today, I let you know what my experiences will be. With softer steel and also 65HRC+ super steel :)
Thanks a lot mate! And keep up the content! Sharpening is so meditating ;)
What kind of sharpening stand are you using?
I made it myself. I needed something more stable to test the Matrix stones when I started developing them. It is where the Slide Guide came from.
I understand that these aren't the best option for softer, more conventional steels. About what hardness do you suggest these are best for and what type of stone do you typically prefer to use on the softer steels? (1x6 EP format stones)
The harder the better for these stones. The softest knives I have are some Chicago Cutlery I was given around 1986. The Matrix stones still work but I don't think they would work if the steel was any softer, I have to be careful with the pressure to get good results. I have a few Boride Alox stones from EP and a full set of Shapton Glass stones that I borrowed from them months ago, but I never use these stones because of the extra mess they make. Unlike the Matrix stones they break down some while in use so not only do you have metal particles but stone in the swarf. Another complaint is they are not all the same thickness so I have to worry about compensating, which I don't with my Matrix stones. The only knives I have sharpened in the last few years that the Matrix stones did not work on were a friend's Cuisinarts, which were so soft they belonged in the garbage. The diamonds made a mess of the steel, they just plowed scratches in the bevel. For those knives my boron carbide stones worked well, which is all they work well on.
IMO if the steel is good enough that you like it in your knife then the Matrix stones will work as well as anything else. Because they almost don't wear, create less of a mess, are close enough in thickness that I don't have to compensate, and form smaller burrs than about any other sharpening medium they are all I use anymore when I just want to get my knives sharp.
@@CGSW Thanks for the information and quick reply. These diamond stones will definitely be added to my inventory. I've mostly used natural stones along with stropping. As I've started adding much harder steels to my collection it was quickly obvious that I was going to need to explore other methods of sharpening. I'm also looking to try a guided system for more consistency relative to freehand, that's how I came across these stones and eventually you. Looks like I'll invest in a set of these diamond stones as well as a set of either aluminum oxide or silicon carbide for the soft steels. Once again, thanks for taking the time to make these videos and reply to comments.
@@CGSW would these stones work for Wusthof knives or Henkels or are they over kill for these types of kitchen knives? Thanks for your response in advance...
@@JohnSmith-px8iu I use them on my Henkels. Yes, they are overkill but the steel is hard enough for the diamonds to work well.
Great video, really enjoyed it. BTW, do you have any plans on making larger matrix stones? Would be very interested in getting a set of these is 8"x3" and sure many others would be as well.
Yep, 1x4, 2x6, 2x8, and 3x8. I just finished the stops and will be starting on the fixture bodies by the weekend, once I get a run of polishing tape holders done. I have just over 200lbs of aluminum bodies cut up and ready to machine once I have the fixtures done.
@@davidscott430 Awesome, great sizes too! Do you plan on selling them yourself or through a distributor? Any idea on the prices for the 2x6 and 3x8?
@@NORTHWESTKNIFEGUY Myself through a website and I will sell wholesale too. The projected prices for those two stones is $75 and $100 for 40 micron and finer, a little more for the 80 and 160 stones. Hard anodized bodies will be an upgrade option.
What kind of sharpener do you have?
It's home made.
@@CGSW would you make me one? I got the money if you got the time.
@@Bravadosjebsimbahsm I am barely keeping up with production right now and have too many projects I need to do to take on any more. Besides, I never finished the one in the video and now have a modification I want to do to make it more stable.
@@CGSW where can we continue the rest of this conversation where the rest of the RUclips world can’t see our words?
@@Bravadosjebsimbahsm david at cgsw.us
Is your sharpener and/or stones available for purchase
The stones are Edge Pro Matrix which are available directly from them or any of their dealers. The sharpener is just something I made to try out some ideas I had and is one of a kind.
Thanks for your quick reply
What kind of sharpening unit is that??
It's my homemade unit. I had a bunch of ideas I wanted to try out while work was slow a few years ago and one of them actually made it into production.
And a love kit it is. We'll done!
Looking to buy a leather strop for my edge pro. CKTG has kangaroo and another one I can’t remember. What would you recommend. Thanks !
I am undecided about what to use for loaded strops right now. I like bare, smooth leather for my kitchen knives, and don't think what critter it came from really matters, but when you start loading it with something I am leaning towards 3M paper surgical tape on EPs polish tape holders. The thickness is far more consistent and when it gets old or contaminated you just replace the tape. Also I think it might not convex the edge as much as leather as it doesn't have as much give. I need to do some more testing to figure out what I think but just haven't had the time, too many projects and of course the ones that pay get the most attention. I got a BESS tester earlier this year so that and my microscope are really driving my opinions about this stuff.
It was a 450 not 650
Yeah, I call it a 650 because it fills the same position in the progression. I now have a 40 micron to fill that position, the 650 is 35 micron and the 450 is 50 micron.
80 stone scratch the bevel but it don't show how sharp the blade was before the sharpening and the video don't show actually a really work of the stone stone
Since this was the 8th or 10th attempt at making this video the knife was perfectly sharp to begin with, I just wanted to scratch the bevel with the 80 and not set it.
I am not sure what you mean by "don't show actually a really work of the stone stone"?
so over complicated dude. you need no more than 3 stones/abrasives to do anything on a knife. including repairing damage like chips, sharpening an edge, and finishing/polishing to desired level. 3 stones. one course, one medium one fine, wow look at that, logic. all this "micro beveling" and nonsense. if you don't like the bevel or geometry then fix it. the issue with brittle steel like that is you kinda need big bevels for lack of toughness in this steel. I guarantee you I could make a knife in a basic stainless like AEBL that's ground much thinner with a real microbevel on it that will outcut this thing in any task any day of the week. All these gimmicky steels by gimmicky companies like SC are for low IQ knife bros (redundant, I know) that are afraid and or dont know how to sharpen, use and or maintain a knife and thus think they can find magical steel that lasts forever. Okay good luck with that when it snaps in half after you drop it or suffers catastrophic edge failure, aka chipping that exceeds the edge bevel from something as mundane as cutting a rope. it's the same appeal with super abrasives like this being slung to a consumer market. knife bros think it's magic. it's all voodoo I guess. I need magic stones for my magic knife, I don't even know how to use or maintain properly, you see?
Meh, an 80 micron stone and a loaded strop gets me around 100 BESS with the steels you like.
@@CGSW for sure. I like vanadium steels as well, I just don't find anything beyond k390/10v to make much sense what so ever, even in niche applications. Favorite overall steel is maybe CPM D2. Night and day drastically different steel from regular D2. You can take the stuff into the mid 60's HRC and maintain better toughness than regular D2 in the high 50's. Doesn't require advanced abrasives to grind either, actually quite a bit easier (than ingot D2) to work with because of how fine the microstructure is .
It is interesting in how varied our personal preferences are concerning knives. After getting used to using these resin bond diamond stones I don't like conventional abrasives because of the mess they make. I have a full set of Shapton Glass stones I borrowed from EP a few years ago to play with and do a video comparison about but can't stand the mess they make. Because of how I use most of my knives I prefer a sticky sharp edge vs working/toothy/ edge. Just personal preference and opinion which I am sure will change as I learn more about the subject or my knife needs change.@@TimJohnson-x1o
@@CGSW to be fair shapton glass stones are designed to compete with the naniwa chosera stones, which are quite a bit more "friable" than something harder and releases less grit like Shapton Pro which is more similar to the Naniwa Habiki. The Chosera and Glass stones are designed to be versatile and work on large bevels as well as small bevels, hence the mess, which is what leaves a smoother finish on wider bevels, like you see in traditional Japanese knives. Compared to very mess muddy traditional stones, the glass and chosera are quite convenient. I do love diamond as an abrasive though, there is nothing else like it. The only limitation of diamond really is that it cuts everything and thus you can't really use it to get a "contrasting" finish between forge welded layers steels, or to get a "carbide rich" edge. other than that, diamond is absolutely game changing and awesome . to be fair, also when you're doing heavy powered grinding, ie not manual, in that case you might want CBN for the better heat management, but that's about it.
Hi I purchased a pricey bottle of lapping fluid for diamond sharpening stones.. I was told it's better than water but the only thing I know for sure is it cost way more,, Lol.. should I not use it on these new matrix stones I have coming in the mail and just send it back?
I would send it back and just use water or water with a drop of dish washing liquid. Yes, the lapping fluid may work to improve the rate of metal removal but if so it will probably amplify the scratches left. Then there is the question of what is in it and do you want it on your skin? It probably is safe to use on the resin in the stones but without knowing all the ingredients I can't say for certain. Some solvents will attack the resin, but if they do you do not want them on your skin as they will make it into your blood.
@@CGSW thanks I already sent it Back..