What did Gandalf's Speech to the Balrog Mean? What is the Flame of Anor?
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- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2024
- In the shadowed depths of Moria, Gandalf the Grey stood steadfast upon the bridge of Khazad-Dûm as he confronted the mighty Balrog, Durin’s Bane. Amidst the smoke and flame, the words of Gandalf the grey echoed in the deep. But, what meaning lay behind his mysterious speech?
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That one change in the line "you cannot pass" really does show the difference in a book, and a film, and how were percieve them. In a book, a scene can hold your attention through pure description, and dialogue alone, whereas in a film, a scene has to be presented fully to the viewer in a way that captures the audience's attention in that moment. For the film, "you shall not pass" works really well with the flow of the words and the way they are being shouted, and it intensifies the scene even further with the music behind it as well. As a result it has become one of the most recognizable scenes in film history. However, in the book, Gandalf isn't even necessarily shouting at the Balrog. Gandalf is speaking to it in a very "matter of fact" way as if he holds all of the power, not the Balrog. In the book, Gandalf is letting the Balrog know that it cannot pass over the bridge. If Gandalf spoke without a lot of emotion in an epic moment that has been built up for the audience, it takes some of the emotional weight out of the scene, whereas in a book it can retain its weight, and importance to the reader, and even add to its importance. It's just crazy to me how the human mind comprehends the subtle details of different entertainment mediums so differently. Books, and films are as different from each other as pen and paper D&D is to an RPG video game. Books allow the reader to go through a story at their own pace, in their own mind, whereas a film is just one isolated representation of an idea from beginning to end, and it moves at its own pace scene by scene.
Well written 👏
Tolkien was many things but loose with his use of language he was not. More than any other author, he meant exactly what he wrote.
Look up the video for Dwarfs or Dwarves, Tolkien admitted a "loose" use of language in this instance so may be getting off your high horse may be necessary
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You're right that Tolkien acknowledged "dwarfs" as the correct plural of "dwarf". But do you recall *why* he used "dwarves" anyway?
It was intentional. Tolkien was deliberately implying a linguistic connection between dwarf -> dwarves and elf -> elves.
He knew exactly what he was doing.
@@richardwaters5433 someone knows about getting off horses...
Book or movie, I get choked up here every time.
Your narration is superb. A lot of lore RUclipsrs have deep knowledge but imperfect narration that takes you out of the immersion. Yours not only harmonize, but strengthen the immersion. Your cadence, your voice, but most of all your prose is so pleasant to hear. Its during your description of Tolkien's draft that made me pause the video and hit subscribe ❤
Absolutely brilliant analysis. Great video. Thanks
My pleasure!
I still like Ian McKellen's version better. Not "it is impossible for you to pass", but "I will personally prevent you from passing." Its much better suited to the confrontational nature of the scene.
Goosebumps on that final reimagining of Gandalf’s speech 😮 Your videos are fantastic! Such great production value and delivery!
Hearing this read out gave me goosebumps
Your channel needs to be spoken about throughout the realms of YT!
Although the amount of your videos created are minimum at this time, the quality and substance of them rank with all of the best channels I've seen about the Legendarium! I look forward to more of your outstanding content as well as watching your subscriber base grow!
Thank you! Your kind words are much appreciated
Well-said, very informative about the nuances of what Gandalf's message is, and better than I've been able to explain Gandalf's magic. In the extended version of Return of the King, in the scene between Gandalf and Saruman, the film does a good job of evoking that when Gandalf speaks like this, he is not describing intent, but truth. "Saruman, your staff is broken" and how it immediately breaks to obey his words.
A very entertaining video, looking forward to more. You have an excellent voice for video narration.
Thank you kindly!
A beautiful video, as always! I offer one correction: the Flame imperishable is not a 'symbol' of Eru. It is something very real, and Eru wields it! We read in the Ainulindalë that Melkor "sought the Flame imperishable in the void" but that he looked for it in the wrong place, because "the Flame imperishable was (always) with Eru"! It burns within Eru. Eru also has the power to send out the Flame and infuse other things with it. We read he infused the Ainur and Ea (the universe) with the Flame. From that moment on, the Flame also burned within the Ainur and Ea (the universe). The Flame imperishable, then, I would say, is that power which lends being, existence, reality to things. As a power it is always within Eru, and it is his to wield as it pleases him.
Loved every second of this ❤ Thank you for making This Video!❤
You’ve got yourself a subscriber. I absolutely love your style of narration.
There are some really cool pics/paintings in the video. I enjoyed the narrative as well. Gööd job!
Cool words dude, big approve 👌 seriously though I love this channel! Please keep doing what you're doing!
I'll echo so many others; another great video and analysis. I had never heard the story of why the film came up with "you shall not pass". Looking forward to future content. Thanks.
I've pondered on the line given by Gandalf to the Balrog and its true meaning... Thank you for bringing these words and their true meaning and intent towards the Balrog.
There is no mistake in casting spells and words alike.
Tolkein knew that for Magick to work, that intention and Gnosis was the key to unlocking Magick. By casting Spells of words as if they had already passed. This is one aspect of the Magicians' toolkit in occult practices.
Bravo Tolkein and Bravo, sir, for an amazing piece of Tolkein law.
I loved it. Thank you
Gandalf turns to the balrog and booms : "You ain't shit!"
Well done.
This was really good.
Brilliant! You've earned a subscription from me.
At approximately 3:45 the narrator said the word subscribe in the text and the subscribe button lit up. So I had to. You got me.
"Subscribe" is a potent enchantment, conjuring forth a reality woven by the very utterance itself.
The references to a deep and rich past in 'The Lord of the Rings" drew me inexorably to the rest of Tolkien's writings. First and foremost, to the "Silmarillion". I had to understand 'Strider's' song on the journey from Bree to Weathertop. I needed to know who the Numenoreans were. Above all, I had to know the significance of what Gandalf was saying to the Balrog. Even though I've read and reread Tolkien's writings, this was delightful. Thank you.
This is a very high quality material channel, thanks the recitation, the notes on books, the draws and paints are top level, the voice is good, I really like it! Well done. I'm reading the HoME started by volume VI, as I want to read the HotLotR first and foremost, however happens that I got the 12 individual volumes, perfect to manage the ones illustrated by John Howe, I have the 10 volumes there waiting for me to tackle them, and this video giving notes about the exact location is very good as the other one giving the names of Sauron also. Kudos my friend. Congratulations.
Brilliant!
I just stumbled upon your channel, what a hidden gem! Subscribed!
The beacons are lit!!
Btw amazing content..
I really enjoy the manner in wchich you present the content on your chanell. And the art you use is exeptional to; any chances to get some references re the artists?
Your narration reminds me a bit of Kenneth Branagh narrating Walking With Dinosaurs, nice
Gandalf actually does say "You cannot pass" in the movie, when he first turns to face the Balrog. He just also says "You shall not pass" at the end of the fight.
ruclips.net/video/DgNrvnY1mo0/видео.htmlsi=rz_ukANj-fxk85H9&t=109
Shout-out to The red book😂
Anor means Sun in Sindarin. The flame of Anor basically points to the light of the Two Trees, in the sense that it is a reference to Laurelin, one of the Two Trees whose remnant is based on the creation of the Sun. As theorized, if the use of the flame of Anor is provided by Narya (Ring of Fire), this indicates that the origin of the power of the rings of power is connected with the light of the Two Trees, and there may be a connection between the Silmarils that mediate this and the Three Rings of the Elves, as fictionalized in the series The Rings of Power.
There's so much more to this. Tolkien's faith greatly influenced his writings. The secret fire, is a reference to the holy spirit and would have been understood in the context of the Catholic faith Tolkien held so dear. It adds such a richness to his work. It's a massive reason why his writing had so much incredible depth.
Make a video, what would happen if you wore all the rings of power in total 20 rings I think. Good work🎉
The "flame of the sun" indicated the "flame of Heaven/the flame of God" on opposition to and authority over the "flame of hell". Additionally, in context, "shall not" is weaker than "cannot". The former indicates struggle, spoken _with_ authority; the latter indicates an absolute certainty spoken _in_ authority.
I have to be honest your videos make me feel like I am experiencing the movies again. I don’t know why but you feel like a historian in Minas Tirith trying to write theory’s on the world around you.
Did you paint the "You cannot pass" poster image yourself?
The Balrogs pledged themselves to Melkor during the discord of the Music, not in Utumno...
I'm gonna need more wall space...
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I really want to hear silmarillion through your voice
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I wonder then, why does the Balrog still choose to test Gandalf and pass the bridge...
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In many illustrations of the Balrog in Moria it is generally portrayed as being huge, but was that really the case? I'm thinking about such a huge creature trying to travel through tunnels made by dwarves for dwarves. I can imagine the menace of the black shadow and flame around it as being larger, but might the Balrog be closer to man size, one that could pass through dwarven tunnels?
I don't think so. The images of Moria show enormous open areas 100s of feet tall.
After watching this video (great, by the way) I was wondering the same thing. Two reasons. One, in the Fellowship, when the company was fleeing the room (I forget the name, starts with an "M", I think) where Balin was laid to rest and from which they fled down a passageway in the back that wasn't being guarded, Gandalf stays behind and "feels" the presence of the Balrog through the closed door. Well, how did a huge creature, as it is generally depicted at least in the movie and in illustrations get into that room? Again, as it was portrayed in the movie and illustrations, the door into that room was not very big or tall. Wouldn't the Balrog not be all that tall in order to fit through the door? Of course, I suppose it could have smashed the door wider to get in. But that is not mentioned anywhere. And second, if Gandalf and the Balrog are both Maiar, well, why are they different sizes? Wouldn't all Maiar be fairly alike in size?
The balr9gs in the books are the size of men. They are essentially pitch black silhouettes of a man, surrounded with smoke and fire
The descriptions in the book is kind of nebulous, lots of smoke and fire as you say. People/things also tend to change size (at least according to the viewer) when being epic in LOTR. So the Balrog probably literarily became/looked bigger as he was squaring off with Gandalf and mustering his might.
Changing the phrase to "you SHALL not pass" turns the statement into a declaration, not simply a challenge or battle of will. In military orders, the word "shall" is unequivocal and leaves no room for interpretation. All instruction that follows "shall" are taken as absolute...which is why - to me - "you shall not pass" is more mighty than "you cannot pass"
Gandalf stood on business.
That little change in the dialog doesn’t make the scene in the movie any less awesome. And I’ll take that over the disastrous Rings of Power any day.
Well when I wrote this I kind of meant fire of the gods just sounds better to say flame of anor lol
That's Tolkien. Drawing off of world mythology and weaving a remembrance of the Old Magics; when the world was still new and the speaking of a name or the declaration of a threshold held power.
What if he said it in spanish? 🤔 would is it still work?
you know .. i really wanted to watch this video and listen to your points .. but when the first thing i hear is "check out my merch" i already reload the YT page and look for something by somebody who doesn't directly to push some stupid merch nobody really needs upon me!
For those of us who actually read the books his speech was plain and simple. Glad it gave everyone else a headache
The authors of the period, of which Tolkien is a master, understood the English language, better than we do today. There was formal language, informal language, familiar language common language, slang language and even uncouth language. The very same idea would be expressed differently in each.
You can not pass implies, at least to my understanding, that the Balrog is physically unable , for whatever reason, to pass.
You shall not pass, to my mind, implies that Gandalf will not allow the Balrog to pass. It is akin to I forbid you to pass.
Just a thought anway.
Cheers
The Secret Fire, or the Flame Imperishable is the Spirit of Eru: his power and presence within Eä--in other words, the Holy Spirit of God. Fire is the symbol of the Holy Spirit in Christianity, and Tolkien himself confirmed this in an interview with Clyde Kilby. What he is telling the balrog is that he, Gandalf, does not stand alone against him, but stands with the power of Eru, which *cannot* be defeated.
How did gollum cross the bridge?
By crossing at different place in Khazad-dûm. Remember it was a massive city. There were other paths to take, but none as direct as Durin's Bridge.
I asked myself this question while writing the script for this video. I came to the rather unremarkable concluion that he simply climbed along the rocks at the side of the chasm!
thanks for dumbing down the Great Wizard’s words for us mere mortals to understand… 😉
But what of Tom Bombadil and Goldberry? Every. Fucking. Film. Has. Ignored. A. Single. Appearance. of Yave. Every time.
Yave?
Ah, Tom Bombadil - the only chapter I would actively encourage people to skip. Unadulterated pap.
“Anor”. Or “Arnor”?
Sorry, check LOTR and JRR’s own pronunciation of names…. Yours is a bit off.