What Are the Nameless Things of Moria - Cryptids of Middle-Earth
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- Опубликовано: 29 янв 2024
- The nameless things are among the most mysterious of all of the cryptids within Tolkien’s Legendarium. These ancient beasts gnaw on the very roots of the mountains and can count themselves among the few beings who are older than time. Amidst the shadow and stone many questions linger.
Today we continue my new video series titled “Cryptids of Middle Earth” where we unveil the mysterious creatures and paranormal phenomena of Tolkien’s Legendarium.
Be sure to join the discussion in the comments as I always enjoy hearing your opinions and theories.
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Gandalf and the Balrog having a truce while fighting off horrors in a ancient Eldritch city is so metal.
You know you're scary af when a literal angel with a legendary sword and a fallen angel demon decide to work together to get the hell out of there
Cthulhu can beat up Sauron for his lunch money.
@@ravendelacour1917 Not really, no xD Sauron would squash Cthulhu like a bug
😀
@@valentinfeit5781 Cthulhu is destined to rule the world. Sauron got defeated by a hobbit.
“There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of the world…”
-Gandalf
@@darkstar5681One of multiple things he was referencing. The context tells us the balrog wasn't the worst thing either.
@@jonnyd9351if Amazon wasn’t doing lotr or they’re horrid version of it, I’d love to see these things explored, it would be so amazing
They were even fouler. 💯💯👀🤮🤮🤮
He's talking about the balrog and goblins. These creatures aren't known to him until he went down there with the balrog.
@@GuyChooo oh, ok. 🤓
Gandalf: "I've seen some serious amazing shit.....But I'm not telling!"
Dude, wtf.
Infohazard do not research
Forrealz. 😄
For real, his adventures in the dark deep would have been epic.
"Neigh lil' homie, for it would destory the vibe, and we will need our vibe unchecked for what lies ahead!"
Scumbag Gandalf
As someone who never got deep into Tolkien's works beside only watching the the movies, I really enjoy content like this that give me an insight into the world of his works.
Just read the books, guy. No one’s going to shoot you for reading books. Especially since these are the best of their kind. Your familiarity with the movies is admirable, and will stand you in good stead, guiding you through the complex world of his creation. I guarantee astonishment and awe.
If you ever decide to read the source... you're in for such a treat. There are a few books I've encountered that I would dearly love to be able to go back and experience again for the first time.
I did the same, these videos made me get audible and I listen to the audiobooks in the gym now. They’re good.
You can get the first book with the free trial by the way
@@paulprovenzano3755I’ve put much effort into watching 15-30 second clips and it’s taken a while but I’ve fully conditioned my attention spare right down to a hair width, and I’m not undoing all that hard work.
I forget where It was said but I remember something about the nameless things in regard to Morgoth. "They are like Morgoth (evil) but no OF Morgoth. Not of his kin." This indicated he did not create them but they are evil. Another passage says, "But they will not heed Morgoth. For all evil hates and they hated him to." This indicated Morgoth could not control them meaning they are not simple animals. I don't remember the quotes but there are other passaged warning to not try to describe them or talk to much about them because it attracts their attention. When Gandalf is describing what happened the sun actually gets dimmer. It is also mentioned they have their own machinations beyond the understanding of even Sauron.
These things are not animals. They are extremely powerful. Let them remain nameless.
It could be that the nameless draw power from merely being in the thoughts of others, which is why Gandalf refuses to speak of them at all, only enough to warn against probing further into their existence. Perhaps they were deliberately buried by a higher power so that others COULDN'T learn of them to even be able to think of them. Too powerful to truly destroy, like a fundamental force of nature, but one you could keep from becoming more powerful by simply hiding them from sentient beings.
The true irony being that they could never be fully forgotten because there are eternal beings who would remember them.
Gandalf: "so there's this huge-"
Sun: hides
Gandalf: "haha i slipped and needed weeks to get back up"
Sun: "aight aight, just be careful next time"
Maybe ungolianth was also one of the nameless as she too was always there and seperate from morgoth
@@flashotaku435 Not only that, she tried to EAT Morgoth, and it took 12 of his Balrogs to drive her off.
@@mj91212 only because morgoth was weakened though
IMO, Eru accidently created the Nameless things, here's how. Eru needed to sing the Ainur. Like a conductor, he hummed to set the tone (and accidently created Tom). Then cleared his throat like we all do (creating the Nameless Things) and then sang the Ainur into being (on purpose).
Best theory so far (they are the proverbial flem)
And Ungoliant was created by the dissonant song by Melkor
I like this alot. In my understanding that Eluvitar’s thought created the Ainur, the nameless things are his subconscious thought, his shadow.
The problem with this theory is that Eru Illuvatar was Tolkien's version of the Judeo-Christian God. Therefore, as would align with Tolkien's own theological understanding, Eru is all knowing and all powerful and does not make mistakes.
Also, the Silmarillion tells us that Ungoliant was one of the Maiar who first followed Melkor but later went off on her own.
Probably the 'Residue' of the song or scrapped tones of a script, or misshapen forms of tone that's indiscernible.
I've often thought that Ungoliant, the Nameless Things and a lot of other creatures are the direct result of the Discord sown into the Ainulindale by Melkor and the Maiar he was able to sway to his side... things created beyond Melkor's intent, perhaps the results of Eru attempting to remedy the Discord and its externalities
This has been my thought exactly for quite some time now. Glad I'm not alone in this theory.
@@brodytaylor6632that theory is mentioned in almost every video about Ungoliant or the Nameless Things on RUclips.
I agree with this. I think the discord of the music created the nameless things, Melkor's sheer desire to change the music created Ungoliant, a creature that could basically only feel desire, and when Eru, completely unaffected by the discord, effortlessly brought the music back into order he created Tom Bombadil, who seems completely unaffected by evil and almost omnipotent within his own little realm
Ungoliant mauled Melkor with ease. It is beyond Melkor, since there exist light it most also exist darkness and Ungoliant is the darkness
it was only possible bc she swallowed the light of the trees otherwise morgoth would have had an easy game
olkien was a linguist. Language was so fundamental to him that he still said mass in Latin even after it started being held in English. Those things being nameless , in my estimation, would be a linguists way of making them utterly alien, irrational, incomprehensible. Eldritch horrors, not bound by the rules of reality, physics, nor are they part of Eru Iluvatars song. Maybe background noise.
Very true. Naming something makes it more understandable.
TBF, though, many of us still do Mass in Latin. 😉
I've always been fascinated by the eldritch Nameless Things.
I watched hundreds of deep dive Middle-Earth videos.. well one more is not gonna hurt
I feel you brotha!! Can’t get enough 😂
That would make an excellent epitaph!
Bit morbid? Maybe, comes to us all though 😂
Just don't delve too deep, too greedily...
Same brother, same.
Then there is another and another
It would be interesting if Eru unknowingly created the nameless things. Specifically that they came into existence "on their own" while Eru was having doubts in his creations. Which is why they're underground, unseen and knawing away on middle earth's insides much the same way how doubts can.
I’m going with this theory
That's not possible considering Tolkien's theology and the fact that Eru is just another name for God who is All-knowing.
I like this theory
Finally, a video about them with well thought out theories
Thank you!
@@RealmsUnravelled i truly love the video. Thanks for responding too :)
The linguistic acuity of this is startling. Did you utilize a thesaurus for this? Excellent audio quality btw. What kind of mic/preamp/interface are you using? @@RealmsUnravelled
You keep calling them evil and wicked, but do we know if they've done anything wrong? All we know is they're just chilling down there.
Gandalf called them old and foul which certainly doesn’t make them seem nice
Maybe they were just smelly?@@lucasmurphy740
@@lucasmurphy740I mean I say the same thing about onions but they didn’t do anything wrong
@@lucasmurphy740 No, what he actually said was "olden fowl". He found the world's oldest goose down there
It would be funny if they were good but misunderstood. Kind of the problem with Tolkien and older fantasy is it’s often a very based on appearance what a creatures moral alliance is ultimately. Things that look pretty are generally good and things that look scary are evil. The problem is that a lot of these things are subjective and in reality are not like that. I love Tolkien and series like Redwall but sometimes the ridged alignment is bothersome and hard not to subvert. Like as a biologist it’s not surprising Gandalf would have had a bad experience with the nameless things and vice versa he kind of fell into a whole ecosystem that was foreign to him that he was not adapted to.
I know the two men never met personally but I always pictured the nameless things to be a kin to the elder things or shoegoths of Lovecraft. Strange, with many forms, and completely undescribable.
It sure sounds like it
It does seem like the author may have taken a bit of inspiration from writers of cosmic horror. Still, it’s hard for me to imagine Tolkien having any respect for Lovecraft. Why would a staunchly Christian, optimistic Englishman read the work of an atheistic, pessimistic-not to mention extremely racist-American?
@@ghostrights9314 like I said the two men never met, and it's likely Tolkien wasn't too familiar with Lovecraft's work. The closest I believe they got was Tolkien edited one of Lovecraft's short stories for a British magazine I believe. Though all your points about both men are very accurate.
@@redfireeverstar2651 Tolkien edited a Lovecraft story? I never knew that-interesting!
The Valar were his first thoughts, the Nameless Things were his first nightmares.
So Eru sleeps? 😂
@@ohishehdoubtful lol
Eru doesn't fear anything he is omnipotent and omnipresent he can create and destroy as he wishes he fears nothing
@@mohammedshaheen-bj9svok Eru, chill
@@mohammedshaheen-bj9sveru doesnt exist
It is stated that Ungoliant was a spirit that entered the world shortly after creation by Ilúvatar, that took the form of a giant black spider, but we have no idea how old that spirit was. The Nameless things I would suggest are similarly spirits from the void that, like Ungoliant , entered the world when it was formed, but settled in the depths, rather than the surface, and here's an idea. As an alternative though, the Sun and the Moon are Miar, locked in those forms. Since the nameless things gnaw at the foundations of the world, what if they are the tectonic forces that shape and shake the land?
Exactly Tolkien states there are things from the void I think they were caught up in the creation of arda and are trapped there. Creatures or beings similar to Ungoliant
Not sure I've read that quote before. I would be interested in a source if you have one so that I can include it in future videos!
"Before there time before there was anything, there was nothing. And in that nothing there was monsters" - The Lich Adventure Time
Discord in the music
Nothing is specifically stated about Ungoliant, she and the Nameless Things are 100% mysteries. There's no statement that say they play a pivotal role in anything save for the fact that Gandalf was afraid of them. They stay underground and don't disturb the surface because they're beings of darkness and have no means to dispell the light like Ungoliant could, though they are a horror to witness if you find yourself deep in their lairs. Considering Ungoliant was basically the god of darkness, devouring light and energy itself, I would have to speculate that the nameless ones are simply the type of lifeform that would be commonplace if Ungoliant succeeded in eating all the light in the universe.
My personal head canon is they're essentially things you would see in Steven King's "Todash Darkness," the void between dimensions. The things we see in "The Mist." I also like to think that Durins Bane was also disturbed by the nameless things
I remember watching the first LOTR movie when i was a teen and Gandalf talking about the nameless things that existed before time. I was so peed off that he didnt go in-depth about what he said. over 15 years i now finally get the answer i have been craving for. Thank you for the insightful video
Isn't 15 years enough time to crack open some of Tolkien's writings and find out?
@oldsaddad7274 Listen, idk about the original poster but my brain is too adhd to sit down and read books.
I didnt know they excisted until recently,althought it was The Lord of the Rings 1.,2 and 3.I ordered the 2nd one since i read the first one before. Super ampt 😎@@oldsaddad7274
@@Foogi9000 fair enough
@@oldsaddad7274 I wish that the audiobooks had full male and female narration and with different voices. I feel like my brain could process that.
Something I love about Tolkien was that he understood that mystery is what gives a fictional world it's wonder. If everything can be comprehensively understood, it makes the world smaller. Im gonna chop it up to we don't know and won't ever know and any attempt to theorize has zero basis in what we do know about the world.
I have always been fascinated by the nameless things of Middle-Earth. Great video! Your channel is going to be huge! Appreciate the great quality of the video.
No offense intended, but having a text read out by an AI voice doesn't have much to do with quality. and there are probably already 100 others doing the same thing. I wonder how long it will take for this construct to collapse
I’ve thought that the NT are part of Melkor’s discord in the Great Music that created Arda. Thus they would have been created and existed before any reckoning of time, and Sauron would know nothing about them. Each of the valar (and presumably their respective maiar) would only know about their own contributions to the great music, and Sauron was originally associated with Aule.
So melkor’s dissonance could have brought the NTs into existence and only he and Eru would’ve known about them.
That's been my theory for a long time, too. I also suspect that Ungoliant was a product of the same discord since none of the Valar knew anything about her. When I first started thinking about it I thought it was a bit of a reach, considering she ends up overpowering Melkor, but it might actually hold up: Melkor tampered with the fabric of reality itself and may very well have created something greater/more destructive than himself.
On the same note, Tom Bombadil might have come from the discord as well! Nobody (at least at the council of Elrond) seems to know much about his nature or origin, and he was apparently around before even Melkor:
_"Tom was here already. . . He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside."_
This line (if Tom is to be believed) implies that he predates Melkor. The Ainulindale refers to Melkor as being "there from the first" alongside Manwe, Aule, and Ulmo. If Tom was there to witness Melkor _coming from the outside,_ then that would make Tom a part of the world itself before the Valar descended into it. Since he and Ungoliant are both such wild cards and beyond the understanding of anyone else, I see the two of them as being the opposite effects of the same cause: Melkor's discord screwed with reality and produced both good and bad things that weren't expected or intended in the original music--which is much what Iluvatar said about being "but my instrument in the devising of things more wonderful."
The Discord may have mostly wrought harm and evil, but it also elevated the natural parts of the world (ie the extremes of temperature resulted in rain, frost, and fog that Manwe and Ulmo hadn't previously imagined). I think that on a moral/conceptual level, it created a split where the natural and unnatural aspects of the world became personified in the form of Tom and Ungoliant. Ungoliant represented the nihilism that just consumes everything indefinitely, and Tom represented the natural order that attempts to preserve the original form of the world.
I'm more partial to the theory that these are creatures of the Void. Very lovecraftian to imagine that outside Ea and Eru, there are a lot of unfamothable eldritch entities. Ungoliant could be one of those that Melkor met when he went around in the Void searching for the Flame. Their relationship has always been a bit wierd and unnatural. More like peers/partners than master-servant. Dagor Dagorath could also be Morgoth coming back from the Void with a host of more nameless creatures.
Interesting, I think it's possible as well.
@@Disgruntled_GruntThat sounds good. I rather think that Tom might be something like the embodyment of the undying flame, but this is very interesting and possible explanation as well.
I really enjoyed this video, thank you for spending time putting it together. Looking forward to the next one!
Great episode buddy. I appreciate your effort to detail as well as keeping an open mind.
I just found your channel and realized how new you were, im very excited for more episodes to this series and look forward to your channel growing more! The algorithm has clearly picked you up and will soon be funneling all the lotr lore watchers to your channel soon, keep up the good work!
I feel like anytime I watch a deep lore video about lotr I need an entire semester of history just to understand the context. Like wait who's that?? And when did this happen?? And what??? I still watch these types of videos anyhow lol great work
I'm reading the books for the first time now, and I look forward to more of these videos. This was lovely!
Only about a minute in and already just liking and subscribing due to your voice, delivery, and writing.
Absolutely love this series. This is the niche content I crave 👏🏼 please make more!
Dig the topic selection and the manner of delivery is top notch. Will be checking out more of your offerings mate... thanks for sharing.
I always likened the nameless things as creatures similar to Ungoliant. Created before arda, from beyond the void. Finding a place of their own beneath the shadows or in the deep.
You have an amazing speaking voice. I'm glad I found this channel today, because you now have another subscriber.
Very excited about this new channel good luck my friend
Thanks so much!
One of my favourite Middle Earth cannon videos yet!
As a lifelong Tolkien fan, this channel is a godsend!
Best narration on Tolkien subjects I’ve come across. Nailed the pronunciations the way Tolkien would’ve said them
Though we may speculate like hell since there is lack of explanation about these creatures; the most valid hypothesis for me is that these createres were formed as a result of very first dissonannce in Ainulindale. The moment Melkor challenged others, irregularities start to happen during creation and it might as well have caused those things to be formed. The fact that they are pretty twisted, and they are referred as ''namesless'' which points the lack of description sound like they are unwanted results of creation dissonance. My second hypothesis would be they are the evolved or adapted (twisted) versions of some very old beings.
By far the best description of the nameless things ive heard .
Absolutely top notch content, you've got another sub from me.
Really love these videos. Would love to watch/listen to them with some quiet "Middle Earth" style music in the background
Same
Probably the best video on the topic.
new lore channel is cooking🔥
I've watched a few vids on the nameless things and this was definitely one of the more thought out and sourced ones, and i think the others were very much so as well!
Great video. This food for world building thought may be one of the best things Tolkien gave us in all of his writing even though it was just a few passages. I imagine Gary Gygax reading those and deciding Dungerons and Dragons had to have an underdark.
I am re-listening to the audiobooks of the Lord of the Rings. I finished the section on the entrance into Moria just the other night. Thank you for your videos. I look forward to more.
Hey, check out Phil dragash if you ever get the chance. He voices the characters and adds the soundtrack to the books. Not to mention ambient sounds of nature and footsteps etc.
thank you so much, this video has explained a whole lot to me that I never was able to really understand and also I havent read all the books. i have the collection but havent got round to reading them all. so thanks very much. this is fantastic😀
Great video, really cool ideas
One of my areas of study is Cave fungi, from that perspective I always liked to imagine the nameless things being fungal in origin. Fungi leave behind microborings in the substrates they inhabit, the tunnels Gandalf the White describes could easily be mega-borings left behind by a timless mega-mycelial network.
Giant hyhae being mistaken for tentacles, reaching out from the dark. Melting trespassers with sprayed acids & enzymes, absorbed & consumed. Leaving nothing but the unheard echos of their screams in the deeps.
I'm sure if Tolkien had been aware of fungal biology beyond mushrooms, he may have liked this idea.
I like your voice and your content. Both resonate deeply!
Pretty good brother. I enjoyed the video thanks man!
Thank you, for your contribution, to the beautiful tapestry of my living experience.
Keep up the great work!
Nice work dude thanks
I really like your theory. The idea of an entire "lower earth" where life has been tempered for eons and only the most brutal or calculative creatures have been able to survive. It's just super cool.
that's just regular earth lol. that's evolution. creatures over eons of generations through survival of most adapted and gene-passing -- changing developing and tempering for their environment, whether that trended toward calculation through intelligence and cooperation; or speed or power in muscle, tooth, and claw; or combinations of both.
Nameless ones are dinos confirmed
I think it's just as likely that Melkor had corrupted other Valar before they entered Arda but they abandoned him and found their own places in Arda not being willing to diminish themselves and be subservient to Melkor and then just stayed hidden not wishing to bring the wrath of Valinor that surely must have felt in the many battles with Melkor. Truly there is no answer or even really a hint of an answer in any writings by either Tolkien so whatever head canon makes sense to you is the correct one.
your videos are really cool man
Loving the imagery of these beasties used in this video.
I think its all AI
@@GoombahGoombahGoombah I was considering that in my mind. If true, at least the uncanniness of the AI works here. XD
I'm wondering if the first one was Jormungandr, I think that was the ocean in the background
@@MRDLT00 The pictures are AI. The script may be AI too, the voice reading it is also AI. I made videos like this before as well, you can shit out a video with so little effort and people will like it and It will also turn out some what good.
I did it with dinosaurs videos, because it is such a specific and small niche you will get viewers.
Seems more likely to me the nameless things predate Eru's creation of the world and the ainae outright. Like Ungoliant, they are something older and outside of Eru's creation
In my opinion, the Nameless things were born out of the discord of Melkor. During the time of conflicting melodies before Eru raises up the third theme, these creatures could have come into being as a result of the confusing/contradicting melodies. Melkor likely did not even know if their creation.
Eru allowed them to come into being, possibly to help guard against Melkor's meddling in the roots of the earth.
If Melkor or any other of the Ainur tried to get to the foundations of the earth, at the center of which is implied where the Flame Imperishable dwells, they would come across things more powerful than they were.
That’s pretty fucking solid theory dude like this one
amazing video! thank you!
This was wonderful to listen to. You sound a good deal like Toby Longworth. An audio book narrator, who did the "Eisenhorn" series. Which I do not think I could have managed without so wonderful a voice performance.
Suffice to say finding a similar talent invested in one of my favourite worlds, is an absolute treat. ❤
I love your videos and just subscribed! They’re very informative and well scripted. I also wanted to give you a quick FYI just in case you didn’t know but your second readind of the Hobbit ( 9:41 ) is missing the caption.
Great video
I think the Nameless Things, Ungoliant, and Tom Bombadil are the bits of chaos pushed aside to make room for the world, which just happened to be compatible enough with the world that they were able to function in it and make a place for themselves, rather than disintegrating.
Excellent video, well done
I wonder if, wherever Eru himself came from, there were other primordial beings in the void that heard the song and were drawn to it, in the same way that it could be considered energy food much like the current explanation of Godzilla, it eats radiation energy from below the mantle?
They could have attached themselves to the forming Earth so the Ainur wouldn’t have noticed them as they weren’t included in the Song.
Eru either allowed them or couldn’t refuse them the ability to do so
brilliant video!
love every video
I greatly enjoyed the showcased concept art in this video! Great inspiration for CoC and D&D monster encounters!
Are there by chance any links available to find them?
Yyyyup. Found who I'm falling asleep to now.
Have you done a background on Tom Bombadil and Gold Berry? This is the first time I have read the Silmarillion before reading Lord of the Rings rather then after and I kind of got the impression Tom might be an example of a great old spirits that existed before Arda much like Ungoliant's origin is kind of unexplained or an example of what Arda should have been if the song had gone uncorrupted and changed by Melkor and the other Ainur trying to drown the other out. So Tom very well could be one of the "nameless things" but a rare benevolent versus the evil ones we typically get to know throughout the rest of the series.
It is the elves who give their names to the creatures named in Tolkien mythology. Nameless Things are nameless because they are not named by the elves. Ungoliant and Tom Bombadil probably emerged from the same formation process as the Nameless Things, but were named by the elves because of their interactions with them. I believe that the nature of the formation of these beings can be explained theoretically by connecting them to the Music of the Ainur. Since Eru's third theme weaves Melkor's melody into the music, there is harmony and dissonance in the music in a dialectical context. Nameless Things are beings that exist as reflections of this harmony and disharmony. Although benevolent beings such as Tom Bombadil may be formed as a result of harmony, malevolent beings such as Ungoliant may be formed as a result of disharmony. This is a situation that cannot be understood by the Ainur in the vision. When Eru realized the vision with the Secret Fire, these beings that existed in the idea emerged simultaneously with the creation of Arda with an incarnate existence. They are therefore older than Sauron and in general all other beings who have not yet descended or been created in Arda. For example, the Watcher in the Water may be a product of Melkor's distortion of the interacting melody of Ulmo and Yavanna during the performance of the music.
Gandalf recounts his fight with the Balrog like in an underworld with mount everest sized expanses. It's like feeling the full spectrum of human emotions. Highest highs and the lowest lows
Loved this video. Great job. Please do a video on Ungoliant. 😊
Great suggestion! Will do one soon ☺️
Will you be making a video on whether balrogs have wings? There are so many theories. I can't wait to hear what you make of them.
this channel has really blown up recently 👌
Great video.
Thank you so much!
Another excellent video. I wonder if Tolkein read Lovecraft?
Your narration is top notch! You have the prefect voice for it. Not sure if you used AI with it, but it still sounds great. So many LoTR lore videos have some 20 year old kid narrating them and it just doesn't do it for me.
These videos offer an incredible insight unto the works of Tolkien, really interesting. Beautifully illustrated as well. May I ask who the artist is?
looks like AI art to me tbh
In my own interpretation of the lore, the Nameless Things arise from the echoes of Melkor's disturbance of the Ainulindale. Not directly created by him, but existing due to his influence, and technically being there before time itself started, and if you consider the Ainur as existing only from the moment they enter Arda, the Things could be understood as older than them. Also, I'm pretty sure Ungoliant is akin to them, at least in some sense.
You gained a sub RU. Thanks for being so cool
I'm drawn to the "they existed alongside each other" theory, something about the idea of cosmic horrors just existing for ages untold with no clear source is horrifyingly awe inspiring. I like the way the lich in adventure time says it "before there was time, before there was anything: there was nothing. And before there was nothing... There were monsters"
Thank you!!!
After hearing about the Watcher in the Water again recently in another video, I had a disturbing realization/image come to mind.
Since it’s “tentacles” are described as having “fingered ends”… it could have hands… meaning they are fingers not tentacles. We all know humanoids have 20 digits combining fingers and toes… meaning the 21st appendage would be a male appendage…
The image of a humanoid male sitting at the bottom of the lake, with 21 appendages extending from the deep like long writhing roots to grab you is creepy af…
I really like your analyses of these questions. Thank you. I'd like to hear you talking with creator Men of the west.
Woop woop, showing My support, woop woop. Liked and subscribed, woop woop
That final theory seems to be the best, in my opinion, that I've seen about the the Nameless things. Not sure if someone else has had the idea before, but it's the first I've heard of it.
Nice video!
I do think though that you miss a vital part in the timeframe of the Nameless Things.
Gandalf says that Sauron knows them not for they are older then him, but that could just refer to the change of Sauron from his original name Mairon when he was still a servent of Aule.
Not entirely sure of the year when Sauron came to serve Morgoth but it should be after or around the waking of the Elves.
Ive always thought of the nameless things as dissonant, unharmonized notes sung by illuvatar when he sung arda into being. Mistakes essentially, or possibly even products of melkor's attempt at changing the song.
As someone who has never read Tolkien's work. I wonder, what makes them evil? What exactly have they done to be classified as such? They want to be in darkness, left to their own devices, knawing at the earth and making tunnels. When the orcs technically treaded on their tunnels, they just slinked back further away into darkness instead of attacking. So aside for looking evil, what have they actually done to be evil?
Tolkien's world has a system of good and evil based on christian theology and the binary of good and evil that it follows, so something can be an absolute evil without necessarily having taken actions to be condemned as such by man.
They and creatures like ungoliant came into being as incarnations of evil essentially, they are the concept made material.
The last words about the complex and rather endless ways of how the Nameless Things might be are so accurate AWESOME!!! Too much Lovecraftian-like cosmic-horror stuff to be ignored in all, werther were an Illuvatar side device thing, or actually indeed something that slipped on his own plot device and which we couldn´t actually trust more on him than just... on a dogmatic way just ... "because" and well that doesn´t set him good in all after all.
Neverthless I doubt that Gandalf would have wanted to left that knowledge be left away regardless on he getting to solve the main tasks against Sauron and Saruman before all, but... I totally doubt he go away without doing SOMETHING on those other enemies which lurked there eventhough they might take a lot to ever be glimpsed out, henceforth the last meeting with Tom Bombadill - himself a mystery too but on the good side of beings - makes better sense to have a word and a plan about it but all it´s left to Tom alone and well ... there goes another idea of why he might be an avatar part of Eru on Middle Earth himself too!
I sometimes subscribe to the idea that they preceded even the Ainur. Perhaps they remained of a previous creation. I also believe that Tom Bombadil falls into the same category, although on the side favoring light over dark.
There is also the possibility that they were a product of the earliest discord in the song. Again, I would place Bombadil in that same group, although not one of the darker beings.
Finally this topic is surfacing. I remember him saying a particular line in the movie that hit me deeply. He spoke of something "deeper" or what was it said? I cannot recall. Something hidden deep within the mountain or earth, maybe? It gave me the sense of a cosmic horror hidden within - sort of feeling. Sort of like trying to grasp just how mind warping, infinitely massive, the Lovecraft lore is. But sadly, for years and years nobody seemed to really even mention that line. I know he said something to that effect. Thank you for covering this sadly overlooked topic. It has SOOO much potential to it.
Does anybody know if Tolkien ever read writings of H.P. Lovecraft? Might be just a coincidence, but nameless things and horrors in the deep gave me a lot of Lovecraft-vibes.
ruclips.net/video/irgPdn9kmV8/видео.htmlsi=ppRIM5Q6FFFxOO76
Apparently, someone sent Tolkien one of Lovecraft's stories, and Tolkien disliked it. Probably because Lovecraft was too nihilistic for a religious man like Tolkien.
More like Dunsany
I like the idea of these creatures being diverse, meaning, each of them have different characteristics like "slug like, octupus like, and scaley like" from one another instead of being a single species.
I love this "bible study" format for Tolkien's works. My personal belief is that the nameless things are what is left of the songs Eru tried singing before creating the Ainur, songs not mentioned in the Silmarillion.
This is excellent worldbuilding and lore. Tolkien gives us just enough, or nothing at all, so that our imaginations take over. Even a powerful being such as Gandalf refuses to go into details about what he saw, which is terrifying
My idea of the nameless things has to do with Ungoliant. The same way she fell from the stars onto the upper side of the flat Arda, the nameless things landed on the dark side of Arda. In my mind they are beings of the same origin, or at least similar. On the light side of Arda there was forces that would keep the spaceborn creatures in check, but on the dark side they could breed and spread uncontrollably. Then, when Arda became a spherical world, the nameless things were engulfed and surrounded by the world, where they eat at the stone, trying to make their way back to the surface.
This art is amazing! Who is the artist who drew these images, does anyone know?