ART Pro VLA II Tube Swap (Part 2) - A/B Tube Comparison & Null Test | Cheapest Hardware Compressor
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- Curious to know what new tubes could do for your ART pro VLA II?
This is the part 2 of the ART Pro VLA II Tube Swap. In the last video we replaced the stock tubes and installed a pair of Electro-harmonix tubes, now we will go over the A/B testing of each pair on the same source material.
We will also go one step further and do a null test on the different recordings of the pairs of tubes. Lets see how much of an effect this mod has on the cheapest compressor, for less than 100$.
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I think, there is a little bit of misunderstanding going on here, for the Pro VLA is no Tube-(or VariMu-) Compressor but an Opto-Compressor. Means that the compression is driven by a lamp and an optocell. The tube is just added vor a subtle coloring the overall sound. I don't know the exact circuit layout but if it is insertet into the pre-stage it could affect the behavior of the compression circuit a little bit and maybe that's the subtle difference we can hear and measure . . . just my two cents. ;o)
i know the tubes drive the amp not the compression
He clearly states at the end of the video, that he's aware of the tubes being only there to dRive the output stage! No misunderstanding
hey I was really waiting for somebody who's tried this kind of test on the Art Pro VLA II and you know what? I think that after all it doesn change too much the sound of the unit replacing the tubes.... THX
This compressor is not a tube compressor as such, it is an optical compressor with a built-in tube stage operating in the gain stage, in an optoelectronic circuit, compression does not occur in the tubes, so no harmonic shift should occur. If any of you feel a change after change tubes, it should be only a slight difference in gain, which affects or interacts with all of the parameters for obvious reasons... The rest is placebo effect. Ask the manufacturer...
The tubes are on the output stage.
Rekt
Based on the null test I’d chock any difference up to bias. Every tube operates slightly different. If the compressors circuit was biased to a given set of tubes and you don’t re-bias when you put new tubes in, aren’t you just causing the compression circuit itself to operate under different conditions?
probably fixed bias
For the most part brilliant video and you are to be commended for making one of the better pro audio videos on RUclips. That being said, I'm not sure of the necessity of changing out the tubes. This was like splitting hairs, although the null test definitely revealed differences, it does not correlate these differences to either set of tubes. It's just a difference which doesn't back up either set of tubes. Tube replacement seems to be a popular trend these days, but if you are not careful, you could find yourself going down a rabbit hole into Frankensteinville rapidly. The ART Pro VLA II is the most affordable and high quality levelling amplifiers out there. No it's not a Pendellum, but for the money, it's one of the most cost-effective pieces of audio gear on planet earth. The only way this video could have been better would to have been to have a comparison of multiple sets of tubes. The time, cost and energy to produce such a video would be crazy. I wish everyone making videos could use your video as an example of how to do it right. Thank you for all the time an effort you put into this. Part 2 was well worth the waiting!
Thank you for the nice feedback, happy you appreciated the video! Comments also noted :)
Agreed this is a splitting hairs situation but many seem to think you can do a quick upgrade and have a high grade compressor. Just wanted to do some Mythbusting and experiment to what degree you can hear, if anything :)
Overall I didn't mean to sound like I was preaching. My comments are really aimed at the overall tube-swapping process. And yes I did hear slight differences on some of the material. I did notice during the null test that the differences were attributed to the difference in clarity on vocals and improved intelligibility. That was my take. You are correct about Myth-busting. I wish this simple change could have resulted in moving my Pro VLA II into the big leagues with a Pendulum Leveling Amplifier. It just like microphones, the cheap Chinese microphones are never going to be a Neumann unless we change out the capsule for an M7 and gut the mic and replace with authentic circuitry...
I have several Pro VLAs and I did swap the tubes on two of the units. On the first one I have Mullard tubes and on the second one has Genalex tubes. One of these units had a slightly distorted sound before I swapped the tubes. When I pulled them out I found that one of the tubes was a 12AX7 instead of the 12AT7. Since the tubes are at the output stage, you'll start hearing noticeable differences and sound coloration if you drive the output. My favorite tubes so far are the Mullards. I like the genalex tubes too but they sound cleaner to me. I may put a pair of Mullard 12AX7s tubes on another one to see what happens. Anyway, my 5 cents: Drive the output if you want to hear some tube coloration.
Haha... I think the results of the null test surprised us both! Thanks for posting this though (I think a lot of people would have tried to fudge the results).
Thanks for doing this, going to be picking up this compressor very soon!
Thanx.
It's an optical compressor and I think the valves don't really matter in the way this rack works.
Very little tube color, very subtle changes from one tube model to another.
Anyway I really appreciate you tested it with saxophone 'cause this compressor is awesome on brass and horns bus.
instead of swapping for almost identical 12At7 (just x3 more expensive!) try with some good ECC83 tubes in there (i have some gold pin Genalex Gold Lion in mine) n find out for yourself a real kickass difference in terms of harmonic content with an extra lil' touch of tube saturation that feels so good 🔥
Guess you are right about the tube not really helps, but what about monding the psu, vactrol’s and op-amps?
There is no discernible difference to my ears. Nothing worth paying extra for.
Was fatter in low mids and high mids
Didn’t hear much of a difference. I’ll stick to the original tubes
If you can't tell a huge difference you're probably listening through your phone or your ears still suck!
Hi killian, when you matched the sides in stereo link, did you face the problem where the sounds are more panned to one side when in compression, especially after bumping the input?
Good job bro I am going to changing tubes of my unit and please let us know how this unit sounds after input and output transformer modification
I agree with ART, Don’t you think that if there was something worthwhile to be gained by switching the tubes, then ART would have included those tubes in the first place instead of the Chinese ones? 😅
You agree with art? can you link to the source of them saying this about the product? I have not seen anything like that
Also... companies make compromises in designs all the time when they are trying to respect a budget/price point. The cost difference and the (un)availability of certain tubes at scale could turn this from a budget item to something completely different. If their intention was to design quality gear without compromise vs budget gear, they could, quite easily in fact...
Just because it was implemented with a cheaper part, doesn't mean that part is useless or has zero impact on the circuit lol
6:25 stuff: The orange track has fuller low end.
When trying to "null" them out with phase, when the sound sneaks through super clear, that's just the "grab" time and will never null out completely. that's analog baby! You did a great job matching levels and putting n so much work. (I put Mullards in mine)
Thinking about buying this through revive with ge nos tubes and better circuitry and transformers. Hopefully it'll come out to that happy middle ground!
That sounds like a plan.
It's supposedly transformerless.
I hear it slightly in the vocals I wouldn't change my tubes. Drums are more fatter on Chinese tubes. Once mixing this compressor with sound amazing
I have this unit and I use it on my kick and snare. I adds a beautiful fullness and some meaty bottom to the sound. I have the original tubes and they sound really good as is. I considered changing them but after this video I probably won't bother. Thanks for sharing. Some people also use these to drive one VLA into the other to get distorted Ministry/Industrial like vocals ( works awesome ) but I wonder if putting a hotter tube like a 12AX 7, that would break up more would be too extreme for the average application. Hmmm. I'll see if anyone has done it.
I guess because I'm more thorough than most...I'm not sure how much research you actually did on these tubes, but there are a number of variations of the "12AT7" and this causes much confusion if one is looking to get the correct upgraded replacement for the VLA.
They range from 12AT7 to 12AX7...12AX7A...12AT7W...ECC81...12AT7EH...12AT7WC...7025...ECC83...etc...etc...etc! That said...now that you've given me just a bread crumb of information, is there a specific tube in this bunch that you might consider to be an optimal choice for this upgrade? I really hate to over think this but you opened up Pandora's box with these tubes and I'd just like to get some clarification.
no significant difference
I have the VLA 2 and this is how I use it because I get a lot of guys who come to my studio and they come with the tracks either on their phones or a USB stick and I import it into my DAW and they lay the vocals and then I EQ the tracks and the vocals and add desser and a clipper if needed and separate everything to 8 outs to my patch bay and compress and tune vocals but the two track (music) is subtractive eq, clipper to outputs 7,8 to VCA compression (just the peaks) to the Drawmer 1976 for some saturation/eq and widening and then to the VLA 2 on the way to my summing mixer and that gets the tracks thumping but route your chain and bypass everything then engage one at a time and tweak each one separately then one by one also compare with reference tracks to make sure you’re in the ballpark but for now I’m happy with my drawmer products they have given my studio a-sound that’s keeping me busy and people never say anything about the fact that some of my gear is affordable (all of it) they go wow that sounds like the big boys did it and all they care about is streams and does it sound competitive with other stuff, yep at least the stuff I have control of if they can’t rap or sing that’s not on me, my moto is have cash will record you
Although the null was pretty close. I felt like the differences were of a pleasing quality. Subtle... Not essential to change tubes... but not a waste....I especially like what it did to the attack. I saw another A/B comparison tests and I noticed more differences.... (He was using Mullards.) Especially in the lows and highs. Maybe you could somehow use the output came to more effect? Are you hitting the input at the compressor sweet spot?
I don't know. . It would be nice if there was also a tube input section though. This doesn't sound like a cheap compressor to me. It sounds like a couple of $400 compressors to me.... Not a stereo pair for $450. It does sounds good.
Hi, can you tell me if the unit is 110 V or 220 V or Switchable . I saw in a review, that if you take the fuse, and switch 180 degress became 220 v. ?. Thanks
very helpfull material dude
I didn't hear a huge difference other than the Chinese tubes sounded slightly brighter (which I prefer). I wonder if those Electro-harmonix tubes are designed for guitar amps/pedals maybe? I'm new to outboard tube gear so I am only guessing. I did read on the gearslutz forums someone recommending the NOS GE JAN 12AT7 tubes for this compressor. Would love to hear a demo of them. I have just purchased an Art Pro VLA 2 so am super excited to start experimenting with all this stuff :D
My Art Pro VLA 2 turned up dead on arrival. Apparently a few of them have been returned with the same issue (blowing fuses as soon as you turn it on). Bugger! Be sure to ask your supplier to test it after you purchase one before shipping out to you. Sounds like theirs a batch issue. I bought mine from Manny's/Store DJ in Melbourne who were fantastic with the whole return process. 👍
@@1samwhich if you dont go to sweet waters lol
Good job on reasearch man. Difference is most noticible on vocals, as I hear on monitors. Im thinking about buying this comp for some time. What do you think about using it for master bus on electronic dance music like dnb, techno etc. ? I see you got that experience with trance, can you tell me please? Thanks🤗
I know someone else who uses this.... I'm listening to the difference on good speakers.... It sounds better when it sees to glue on the master bus. For sure.
great stuff for vocal and Perc !
And bass guitar
Thanks for the null test as that’s the most relevant test I feel you did. It proves how tubes work. Meaning that a tube affects the gain of an ac signal. That’s it, it doesn’t affect tone. So I would expect that different tubes in a compressor would affect how much gain reduction there is and your test proves that. One set of tubes has slightly less gain than the other.
That gain CAN affect tone to some degree, because of the nature of tube saturation but doesn’t seem like it did here. Probably takes a lot in the front end to drive them a bit.
MODIFICA LOS NE 5532 POR OPA 2134
thanks for this
Great video 🙌 The Electro Harmonics are definitely a step up in the midrange, more open. They also have less highs and sound smother there, but that gives a more realistic tone overall. And more extended low end indeed, so definitely an upgrade 👌
Now for the null test you should simply reverse the phase without touching any volume, loudness or anything, and NOT compressing on the unit. That way you will really hear what's left, and so the actual sound difference between the two tubes.
+Adrien Sauvaget thanks for the comment mate, will keep that in mind for the next null tests i do. cheers
arent the tubes in this one just in the control (internal sidechain) path and therfore not directly in the audio path ? i dont know for sure
@@annoybient4388 No the tubes are in the audio path 100%. This design is in fact really well thought, because the tubes are supplied with 45volts on the plates, which is quite low but actually generates some nice harmonic content. The trade off is that the headroom is a bit limited, but still quite good. You need to stick with some 12ax7 / 12at7 if you want to "roll" some tubes in it. For exemple a 12au7 won't work. (You'll get high distortion way too early). Also, the LDR that is doing the compression is well setup, and some really more expensive compressors (I won't mentionned brands) are using it the exact same way. The original Pro VLA was made in the 90's, with much better quality components than inside those new revisions. Put some Iron at the input & output of a Pro VLA mkI, and you have a comp which would cost in the 1500$ + region nowadays (new).
@@bijouxbijouxbijoux wow ok very interesting. thanks a lot for the details mate :)
Yeah. I dunno about that. Could be psychosomatic hearing... It's totally a real thing... Wonder whether you'd still pick that out in a blind test. The results were negligible to me.