We Need To Talk About PLUGIN PIRACY ...
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- We need to talk about PLUGIN PIRACY ...
My name is Paul Third and I am a Scottish youtuber / audio engineer / mixing engineer / audio geek. I mostly cover audio engineering related content ranging from audio plugin shootouts / plugin comparisons (acustica audio plugins, universal audio etc etc) to actual analog vs digital / gear vs plugins plugin tests via access analog and mix analog. I even include ddmf plugindoctor tutorials in my plugin reviews so you can be your very own plugin tester and experiment and understand whats actually going on under the hood.
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Are there any other plugins that you know are compromised in size or performance due to security reasons? 🤓
The cracked Slate plugins supposedly run way faster than the legit ones. All of the license checks that plugins perform definitely slow down load time at the very least.
everything iLok-based, also reason why AAX is fucked up on Apple Silicon even after 3 years since release
@@TazzSmk I torrented free plugins because they required iLok
most ilok stuff... and Roland Cloud... if you can bypass any sort of constant internet call back from the VST you'll get a performance increase and also stability.
there was a really old buggy Yamaha plugin and when it was cracked the people cracking it ended up fixing all the bugs ha.
I buy all my software now but i'm fascinated with the world.
I actually bought my first ilok plugin this year (UAD Minimoog).
Softube Modular is a bad one since each module has its own ilok code so it adds up to a shoddy experience using it.
Klanghelm developer:
"I hate copy protection. I've suffered from it in the past. I've lost countless hours because of copy protection. I believe copy protection only punishes the honest customers, because the software gets cracked anyway. I simply refuse to waste my resources on copy protection schemes. Instead, I want to spend my time supporting existing products, improving them and developing new plugins.
I believe in a world of trust and copy protection has got nothing to do with that."
Now THAT is what the future of plugins should be in my opinion. As he says, it's inevitable and it's only hurting paying customers
That sums it up extremely well. Respect! It's kinda funny to imagine other developers reading that sensible Klanghelm blurb and going "Nahhhh"
OK but... let's talk about figures please - and I kind of know we probably can't sadly, does anybody have them? How can we know how many sales is Klanghelm losing due to not using a heavy protection scheme like iLok, compared to let's say Slate or SoundToys? How can we know how many people using cracked versions would be constrained to shell out money on the legal versions (IMO probably a few but I guess we'll never know)? Without these metrics, the conversation is missing quite a big piece.
@@mabian69the problem is even the heavily protected stuff gets cracked so why not take care of the loyal customer that always supports ur business because they love the product. It’s a human approach. People value efficiency because there are so many options other than Acustica
I think the biggest thing to take from this is that if they are gonna do it they will find a way to do it. It's inevitable. Acustica experiencing such a bad crack was proof of that. These guys are passionate in cracking stuff, it's a game to them. As a dev you can win some battles but you'll always lose the war in the end.
Its the Internet. You close one thing down, it repopulates the next day. It's never going away. Like trolls, you can hide nasty vile people but it won't stop them reappearing. The joys of the Internet sadly
As someone working on two plugins right now, I accept that people will pirate them. My goal will be to make them as awesome as possible while being affordable enough to encourage anyone on the fence to just purchase rather than pirating. The people with the money to purchase them most likely will, and the ones that can't will probably pirate them until they can or decide that they like it enough to permanently add it to their collections. I don't think hamstringing software to stop kids from pirating is the path... keeping file size down and performance up is difficult enough. Also, I truly think the piracy probably helps a lot of small companies get their names out into the community because it's far more likely that people will give your vst a try if it's free and if it's good, the word will spread. I've theorized that several software companies actually crack and upload their own software to just get it out there to create any buzz at all.
That's a pretty big fucking rabbit hole there haha....
Same here, I'm not sure that it would be possible for me to make my stuff completely open source, but even if it will be licensed, I will not go into "protection algorithms", just simple offline email-key type of confirmation. And if plugin gets discontinued -- official crack release.
Freakshow Industries has this model too. You can "steal" their plugins from their website, or buy them. They are cheap enough as is, so it's a no brainer to just pay and support the devs to keep making cool stuff down the line. That type of model and mentality will always make me want to buy from good devs like that.
That’s the Freakshow Industries approach. Love it
I am interested in the stuff you are working on. Please let us know in the future.
Acustica plug-ins being cracked was a huge wake-up call for legit users. plugin/audio companies are ok with treating users like they dont matter (*Cough* antelope audio *cough*) but we finally saw some push-back with the waves licensing and pro-tools licensing when they walked back their announcements. The fact that there are so many plugins that run better and load 5-6 seconds faster than the real ones is just insaaaaane though. (i dont feel bad for acustica especially since they threatened to put malware on peoples computers in the past)
It's a tough line to cross. I understand how infuriating it must be for devs. I would be fucking livid knowing me but only cause I'm a penny pinching bastard 😂
What concerns me even more than the copy-protection about Acustica specifically is R2R's descriptions of how much of a mess the Acustica software is behind the scenes. It makes my wonder whether their high CPU usage is more to do with them just writing bad code than it actually being necessary for the algorithms they use. Also their CEO's statement that, if he detects any legitimate user of their software also using cracked versions, he will deactivate their account and all the plugins they paid for. Deactivating plugins that people have legitimately paid for is unconscionable. Taking money from someone then refusing to allow them to use the software they have paid for should be, and I'm quite sure is, illegal. Regardless of if someone is breaking the law by "stealing" your plugins, it doesn't give you the right to also break the law and steal their money in return 😬
Watching him lose his shit (in the most predictable way) has been pretty funny. R2R could literally boost his sales, especially if Acustica takes their advice and strips off the ludicrous homebrew crypto. From what I hear, the plugs run significantly better and they're like 1/5th of the size on the HDD
I was gonna talk about that but decided not to as I'm the same, I dunno if that is actually illegal or not to deactivate accounts with paid plugins for effectively breaching your agreement (there is normally small print somewhere when you install stuff so I have no doubt something will be there)
What Acustica audio is doing is worse than piracy, they should have no rights to spy on you like this just because you bought their plugins before.
Also if they're stealing the licenses of the legit users they have no moral authority to lecture anyone about piracy.
That's why i swerved it. That's a rabbit hole im not touching, when it comes to legal shit I'm out 🤣
It can get messy. I once had a couple of perpetual software licenses costing $20kUSD. The developer shut down the phone-home license server leaving my colleague and I unable to work, saying we needed to pay for upgrades to reactivate. We got a cracked copy to survive. They then filed a lawsuit against us for piracy. We countersued for them revoking our licenses. What a mess.
Funniest thing R2R did with the Acustica releases is include a video of Luca Pretolesi using their version of Stereo Savage by Credland Audio.
Reminds me of when I was younger and watched Martin Garrix deconstruct „Animals“, literally every plugin he had was pirated 😂 I’m sure he’s mostly using legit versions now. Thank you for speaking on this, perfect timing
*A Witch says , "It's not piracy. It's an alternate solution."*
One downside of getting pretty much everything for free is too much choice, if I bought 1 or 2 synths I would learn them inside out probably
Unfortunately the stability and reliability offered by some of the scene releases has come to surpass that of the legitimate software I've purchased. Waves being a prime example.... Losing access to paid plugins when reopening important projects and investing many hours of time to resolve the issues just gets to a point where it isn't worth it
Glad I stopped using waves nearly entirely
This is why I have stopped using Waves.
Go to hell waves analog obsession and brainworx is my future and if acoustica dont get their act in order and dump this trash aquarious ill be selling my account with the plugins and move on
Piracy is an economic and convenience problem. Go ask the game industry - they've done extensive research on this. If people are pirating your software its because its either too expensive (especially for other currencies) or the pirated version has better ease of use. When Steam came along in the early 2000s solving both of those issues piracy plummeted. Audio engineers should take notes.
Never thought about it that way in regards to the pricing of something 🤔
This same thing happened with Apple Music. Apple was losing so much money due to DRM, and when they removed it the sales went up.
The irony seems to be lost on these people: When the paid experience is objectively worse, people who didn't even consider piracy before start to rationalise it. Also, who wants to be famous for developing bloatware? This doesn't only apply to plugins.
True
When I was younger I torrented EVERYTHING as I got older and started making money from music I slowly replaced all my torrented products with legitimate versions.
I think that's the eventual path for many of us that grew up in that generation. I think you just become more mature and less impatient with time
Same here!
Same here even though the money I'm making isn't from music. Also pirating has gotten a lot harder and shittier than it used to be. Like as much as I hate Kim Dotcom for being a rightwing Q-Anon weirdo, I hate him most of all for monetizing and ruining the warez scene.
Exactly.
It just feels better and hopefully giefs gud karma yooo :P
Projects opening slowly because their plugins are phoning home and the infrastructure on the other end is crap or even unavailable gets old pretty quickly.
Yeah I do hate Internet based plugins. Pisses me right off
I think people who crack plugins can't afford them. Later along the road when they make money they end up buying them
Also people who already bought them also use cracked versions to avoid hassles like being locked for requiring internet validation, and for performance purposes
If a company goes down or changes their TOS and you open a project 5 years later, if they have restrictive protections they are likely to break your project
I wouldn't say all end up buying the plugins. There are peeps out there who will just point blank refuse to buy anything they know they can get for free. The thought of waiting for a 6 hour download of a cam video of a film gives me the absolute fear but there will still be those who go to the bother of downloading shitty cam movies cause they refuse to pay cinema prices or don't want to wait for it to come on Netflix or prime
Unfortunately there are some proved situation of big names in the audio industry using cracked versions, we cannot neglet this - which is unbelievable, because for sure they *can* afford to buy them...
I've been sent a few screen shots and was VERY surprised
To your first point - absolutely. People that want to buy plugins will buy them. Cracks really do not take anything away from the market because the people that use cracks generally wouldn't have purchased anyway. If companies set simple and affordable pricing for a quality product, people will buy it.
I've definitely heard professionals say they would rather use the cracked versions even if they bought the legit version because the cracked versions usually run better. Copy protection is just needless crippling of a product and hurts legit consumers.
in the best of the worlds it would be that but you dont know how long my list of drum & bass producers that i personnaly know that live from their music and makes big amount of money are still not paying any of their DAW or VST.
They buy them only if then really can't find them on the river.
For me personnaly thats the stade of mind to have to try, use, if you really love it and get productive with it buy it and respect the developers (as long they are not like the Acustica's CEO)
the best thing to happen to me was when i lost all my cracked waves...at the time i used logic, so instead of crying, i learned to mix wirth the DAW plugins and my mixes sounded better because it was more of a question of, hey, should i use slow or a fast compression ect... then when i started using acustica, of course i went hog wild, but kept crashing because of the intense usage of cpu and HD space, which was great because it taught me to use LESS, because less is MORE and it almost always is... then a found Tim Pethrick and i am living happily ever after now
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I went the other way around. I have bought Plug-ins for hundreds of dollars, or perhaps thousand now, but then realized I don't use even 50% of them. So now I use the cracked ones and when I realize I actually use them, perhaps after a couple of months, I buy them on the next sale. The trial versions are to limited or too short.
I think one issue is that there is no real second hand market for Plug-ins. Hardware is better in that way, that if you don't use it you can sell it.
I don't make any money of music.
There's facebook marketplace for plugins but most devs make it near impossible with their transfer licence fees. Waves especially, think they are like £15 per license or something. Makes selling pointless which is obviously intentional
@@PaulThird This is a big deal. If I had to do it over again I probably would have done more subscriptions and not bought so many. Transfer fees are clearly just a punishment and deterrent as you said.
If pluginboutique gets enough developers on board with their service, perhaps that could be a subscription model that would work. And other re-sellers could offer something similar. I think you are able to use 10 plugins per month or so. So if one only wants tro try things out. Or will need temporary licenses for a project, that model could make some sense. I'm sure they will do some loyalty points system with it, to get subscribers to buy from their store.
They have also started doing rent-to-own deals. It would make a lot of sense, to switch one of the plugins that you find that you use all the time to a rent-to-own plugin, to be able to use another. The biggest issu with rent to own programs I see today, is that they typically don't offer the same discounts.
Yeah rent to own can be pretty expensive. I was well stung back in the day when I did it with waves. I don't like to think about that younger version of Paul Third 😂
There is also the case where you purchase a plugin, then find out later no transfer is possible (bloody fine print), which seems entirely unethical.
This is an interesting subject worth chiming into.
My conversion from analog to digital was in 1996/1997 when I did my first project on SAW--the four stereo channel DAW that came with the hardware I had been using at the time. It didn't have the plug-in capability, but did have EQ and Comp built in. The only way to get good sounding mixes was to record it properly with decent pre-amps, which came courtesy of the Mackie VLC 1202. Lesson learned: YOUR PLUGINS WON"T MEAN POO IF IT'S NOT GOTTEN INTO THE COMPUTER PROPERLY. Diamonds in, Diamonds out. PERIOD. (And I was at 44.1/16 bit at the time.
A few years later I was on N-Track and used it to record and mix my "Stovepipe" and "Mutated" albums, again, 44.1/16 bit; following the blueprint I had used with the SAW program. Used a few DX plug ins, which didn't seem too different that the stock plugs that were in the DAW.
Since 2020, I came across an amp sim company (ML Sound Lab) that alleviated the burden of renting a studio to record a mic'd amp set up. Priced at about $29-$50 per amp (especially during their many sales) there is no need to use the cracked versions that showed up. Comparatively, if I was to do this at Cove City Studios, it would be at least $300 for two hours if I can get there off-hours. And I don't have the worry about some foreign actor having "back-door" access to my machine by opening a port upon installing the plug-in.
The recent Acustica hack is good to let the consumer know what they're getting into should they move into that eco-system. Same with anyone who wants to use I-Lok based software. Put your money into quality mics and preamps (My new MOTU has a killer built in preamp; I can't believe how clean and clear it is), and the rest will easily fall into place. People didn't need all of this back from the 50's through the pre-digital era. Record it right the first time, and it will almost mix itself. A bit of high pass & low pass, small shelving, comp the vox, and you're done.
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Softube stuff takes a while to load for me. Im now wondering if its due to license protection. They use ilok but allow machine activation on a few machines, So no need to plug in the ilok. Stopped using slate due to having to have an ilok with the latop
Does get you thinking eh 🤔
I bought Softubes Weiss Suite of mastering plugs and it would make my DAW really unstable. Sometimes I couldn't open my sessions up. I tried the Pirated version just to see if it worked better, and low and behold...ran perfectly with very little CPU spike at all (I could barely get a single instance of the legit version to run)
I've paid for the plugins (and DAW's) that I use, but, having said that, I will use one of the witches' versions of a plugin I own if it proves to be more stable, faster and more predictable. And that reality, unfortunately, is often the case.
When I was learning, I used a cracked DAW and some cracked plugins. The crap crashed getting time to time, but at least I learned a bit. And when I got more serious as a music creator, when I finished my studies and got a job, I bought a DAW and some plugins. I haven't used any pirated stuff in at least 15 years. What's good today is that several DAW's have scannede down free versions, there are free versions of drum software, a lot of free plugins... There's no need for pirated plugins, even if it's one of the most used and popular plugin in the industry.
It’s funny ‘cause legit customers aren’t actually buying more acustica’s plugins because of the compromised and slow workflow
Yeah it's bad enough as it is haha 😅
Yep I’m done with acoustica… they sound good but it’s hard to use them.. and they constantly cause me issues .. love lemon and el Rey and others but not worth the hassle
@@TheThinker43yeah kind of the same here. I once purchased Viridian2, but sold it as it was so heavy, I could never use it in my productions. I'm still using some of their freebies, but won't buy anything in the future.
Same here ! No more Acustica! Not even free imagine that ! Can’t even properly the ones I bought.
The problem with this stuff is that once the reverse engineers have figured out the protection, it no longer serves its purpose. At that point it is purely an inconvenience to paying customers, so the fact they're doubling down like this is pretty damning. A lot of the supposedly unbeatable protection schemes have been beaten, and practically everything eventually ends up out in the wild. I can understand why a developer might become stubborn about protecting their work, but to keep punishing the people who fund your business once the cat's out of the bag seems irrational. Then there's other things like plugins coming out without a demo. The idea that lack of a demo will even slow them down is beyond optimistic if you ask me. Just more and more of the same. The nuisance of piracy related issues is offloaded to the consumer, and then occasionally the cracked version comes out faster, or using less memory or less drive space because they stripped the bullshit off of it.
Yeah, it needs addressed and discussed on a wide scale
I love the side skits, they are hilarious. Yes I use cracked software aside from bought ones, If I really need it or I'm impressed by the software I buy it in the end.
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Its a topic I have thought a lot about. The thing is, at the same time plugin companies began being pirated, so did the music that people use the plugins to make. Plugins then got ilok musicians got Spotify. So devs got protecttion and musicians got bent over further.
I believe part of the attraction to download illegal software is the fact that they are just getting something for free, you wouldn't walk into a music shop and try steal an Oberheim, but you can download a vst from the comfort of your own home.
ALL the people I have met that download stuff haven't got a clue about making music, no passion...nothing, they have seen me make music and thought...'oh...that's cool' but they just want to be able to use the 'yeah...I'm a producer' tag.
If you are remotely serious or passionate about making music, buy the software and help support the developers who put in so much work bring us these goodies, heck...it's cheap enough now.
While i basically agree - i gotta say there are some plugins where the protection is so disruptive that i use the crack ALTHOUGH i own the legal version because it just works better and i don't have to have 6 online bridge programs running in the background messing up the performance. Seriously at one point i had to open beatport access, the fucking uad stuff (or UA connect), loopcloud, native access and fucking ilok before i could even open my project. It's too fucking much!
I agree. Ilok is a massive pain in the arse
Ah yes, the good old days of pirate bay. When I was younger I remember having a cracked version of fl studio and auto tune. Now I've bought and own both, plus more. I think it's going to be hard for kids to give up cracked plugins as they get marketed so hard into certain plugins being the best, plus they can't afford them. A great recipe for pirating I would say
Yeah that's the crux of it all. The industry making younger generations feel that they NEED this and that with their own marketing. Been there, illegally downloaded the t-shirt 😂
Not only that, cracked plugins are easier to use. You dont have to deal with ilok or 20 different hubs.
I do understand the fact that developers want to protect.
But, if their plugins seem to use more resources that affect performance, I do not see a problem in cracking them, if the crack actually is optimized to work faster and efficiently without copy protection stepping in.
Acustica's decisions.. Their choice obviously. But a bit too much. Absolutely unfair that customers have to suffer from crack users/heads. They are not responsible for groups cracking Acustica's plugins anyhow.
Now, I'm totally aware of my decisions and I understand the underlying reverse engineering in most cases before I choose to install, but I see no problem using cracked versions of stuff I've already own if it actually proves to work more efficiently, and they absolutely do. Depending on how their current updates etc works, I don't need to constantly update if it's known to be stable. My system is also more or less isolated and is only partially online, meaning plugins and DAW's can't use internet at all, not even in the background. Internet is probably the worst problem for cracked plugins if you don't want it broken over time.
I wouldn't advice my solutions for everyone however. It requires that you know what you're walking into 😂
I've found it interesting just how many people crack plugins that they already own haha I wouldn't have thought that
@@PaulThird luckily, it's been less and less for me for some companies that seem to get the issue. Morally, that's also what I would prefer. Good faith still exist. But I can only speak for myself 😂
Plugin developers have to protect their goods and provide a good product at the same time - sometimes these things impact each other, but if security impacts functionality significantly they have a bad security concept and they'll lose customers because of it.
Yup, that's why i wanted to bring this up as even I didn't know the extent to how certain plugins were being compromised due to security
@@PaulThird To me, it doesn't matter so much what makes them bad. If they're bad, they are bad. Whether they are bad because their security concept is bad, or because they have no idea about intuitive design, or the math is bad, or the programming is bad, etc. - bad is bad. It's interesting that some plugins eat hardware space because of it. But realistically I can't imagine that plays a role considering how big sample-libraries are (for sample based VIs).
Tbh this is the genuinely beneficial part of the cracking scene, if companies go overboard with bloat those people will take great issue with it and call it out. I hope that Acustica takes this scenario to heart and makes things right instead of doubling down on their nonsense.
Knowing G (not personally) .. He'll continue to double down
You have it the wrong way round.
All these companies need these protections BECAUSE of the hackers !
@bontempo1271 that argument would make sense if it actually stopped them, but since it doesn't, the only people getting punished are legitimate paying customers getting an objectively worse product.
@PaulThird yeah it's looking like you're right, he's been doubling down heavily all over the place. It's a shame
@@dirg3music But it did work for Acustica until now, and thats only because they reduced their protection or AI helps hacking.
If they didnt have protection, then their software would be wide open and the hacks would be clean and not buggy or un-updated.
Everything I ever got that was dodgy was always shit.Films, games, music. All rough as fuck. I've spent countless hours getting my pc with legit software running sweet, and I'm not going to fuck it up with cracked shite and give myself stress trying to make it work. Plus, I'm older now and appreciate some poor bastard out there put hours in to make this software. Even the freebies on Gumroad that I use regularly, I'll bung a few quid over. Karma good and conscience clear.
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after spending 3000 EUR on their plugins, finding out about that it hurts so much knowing my SDD space could be 10 times less occupied ...I really struggle in there, is it really worth it?
When your paying customers are pissed off and potential customers are wary I'd say it's not worth it
With other companies you spend the same amount of 'wasted' HHD to buy decryption keys.
The only time I tried to crack something I broke a computer.
I remember it was a notation software.
Ever since, all the plugins I’ve used and owned have been purchased or have been bundled to hardware as a promotion.
Some others have been free for Black Friday promotions.
To this day, I’m only using Slate Digital, SSL Native, Plugin Alliance and the stock Avid plugins.
I’d much rather focus on getting much better libraries than the ones I currently own and improve on that regard.
For mixing, stock plugins can definitely do the job if the recording is made properly.
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skill issue
@@nnctnlav Yeah, the idea that a crack can break a computer... 😂😂A bit melodramatic. Definite there were other issues going on there.
I'm skeptical if the protection really helps them get more sales vs how much it cost to implement.
I dont think the majority of people who crack intended on buying it, so is it actually a loss since it's software nothing extra was used for that person to have the crack. Personally i was never gonna buy the acustica stuff so when the crack happened i played with a bunch and uninstalled them because i didn't like them. Quite a few times I've found the paid experience worse than the crack with higher CPU taking more space and it asking me to connect to the internet when I'm somewhere without a connection.
I wasn't sure if the Acustica cpu was affected as well but if cpu is largely improved alongside file sizes then surely you would scrap the protection as the biggest loss to sales is primarily
1. Cpu
2. Drive requirements
That's be a no brainer for me if I was getting hard cracked anyway
I think the ilok company is basically running a protection racket. They convince the big plug in companies that they will have higher sales if they pay for ilok protection, which means that the customer has to pay more for the plugins (and have the inconvenience of ilok), but I'm not convinced that plugin companies actually do benefit. After all, they have to pay thousands to the ilok company for "protection" that ultimately doesn't work. The companies should just bypass it and make products that people would be willing to pay for, at prices that don't include the ilok premium.
I pay my stuff now a days, but I still crack some of my already paid stuff because always online just suck ma wally for a dedicated offline rig, let alone telemetry eats resource still. also sometimes the 1 license per PC just outstandingly annoying AF
Yeah the license thing is another big reason why I can't hack waves
I don’t need many plugins, the ones I have are all bought on sale.
But fair enough I mix hybrid with an analog desk so most of the time my screen is running a screensaver while mixing.
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Glad you brought this up Paul. An interesting debate. To me this is made even more complicated when one considers if the company and developers are involved in cloning hardware they don’t have the rights or permission to duplicate. I don’t know the answer or if this is true. This is what they are selling even by not naming it as per original. It seems to me perhaps there it may come across as a bit of cry wolf at any ‘losses’ that result from reverse engineering.
It’s a very interesting dilemma for such a developer that may result in different legal opinions and probably laws in different parts of the world, not maybe even in their favour; Intellectual property of something that’s not been granted permission to be copied.
The legal side of this will be interesting to read about whatever happens. :)
When it comes to legal shit I step the fuck back! Haha
Absolutely!
to use an original name, you will likely have to license that, there is usually a holder to the rights. That doesn't mean that the hardware in itself is (still) protected from being copied or emulated. Some patents have run out. Some are not patentable in the first place. Some hardware makers would not be willing to license their trademark. Others think they can ask well above market value. So emulations not using the original name doesn't mean there are any laws broken at all.
The plugins you're getting aren't free though. It's a trade of service. It wouldn't be hypocritical of you to be against illegally downloading cracked plugins. I paid for every plugin I've ever owned, and I've never had a cracked one. I want paid for my work, so I'm not stealing anything.
I know but
1. I can't be truly against something I myself have done in my younger years. I can choose not to do it now I'm older, wiser and can afford stuff / get it for free legally. That's my morals as an older man, but id be a fool to give a pasting to someone who is possibly in the same position I was in as a younger more naive man.
And 2. I understand that many youtubers would be against piracy from a selfish point of view as a lot of their livelihood is very dependent on selling and promoting stuff for others to buy. If they are promoting stuff for people to then illegally download they make less affiliate sales and developers don't make enough to then sponsor their videos yada yada.
This topic has to be approached in a very specific way on this platform so it doesn't turn into an absolute shit storm haha
@@PaulThird We're supposed to be against bad things we did in our past, that's part of growing up. As long as you stopped doing the thing you're against you're not a hypocrite.
I know. Its been a VERY long time. Easy over a decade but I just remember what it's like to be young and feel so shit that you are constantly skint and can't give yourself the things that you feel you need. Never helped with the Internet telling me that I needed to buy this and that to be a professional. That's definitely not changed, actually gotten a lot worse due to youtube. I was a very frustrated person back in the day who felt that they needed x, y & z to BE somebody. I genuinely couldn't afford protools back in the day and had to use it in college every day. I remember feeling like an absolute Jakeball for using whatever free daw was out at the time at home. Looking back it was a horrible way to feel and I thinking about it now it still goes on every day with the amount of DM's I get from people asking me my opinion on budget plugins and gear
Audio industry can really suck balls 😔
That's a fallacy though. Just because you've paid and been legitimate doesn't mean that the companies will be-that they are inflicting copy protection into your work flow is proof that they are not being fair to you. You have paid for the software, and yet their protection can at any time decide to keep you from using the software. There is a high enough instance of this happening that it is a real issue. Even if you personally have never experienced this situation, your machine is still running slower, and producing les performance due to the copy protection employed on the software you've bought.
I admit that I started my endeavour with cracked software. But even then, I told myself that as soon as I am ready to make music where I put a price tag on it, I would make sure that everything I have would be legitimately obtained. This has been the case since 2005.
And yes, *a lot* has changed in these few decades. 😁
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Great video, good Sir. Thank you.
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I love klanghelm's method. They dont do any copy protection. And i have bought every single one of there plugins.
Perhaps more importantly, the reality that people are waking up to, very slowly, is that for 95% of people, there is no money in the final product - music. If there is increasingly less money in the actual musical product available for the majority of artists, how does the plugin and other ancillary industries even justify their prices? I should also include hardware too, although, that's a shit ton harder to steal than plugins, but you get my meaning. At the end, with the ever decreasing worth placed on art and music in particular, there will be less art because all the artists had to get a full time job at delivering shit for Amazon to pay for food. The music production industry is well past time for a major and devastating shakeup. I don't think the illusion can be held up for much longer.
The industry is what's making the money. Labels sign the artists, labels pay the engineers, engineers buy software and hardware to mix the songs, the cycle repeats, the music and audio industry keeps making money, the two go hand in hand
As long as artists want to be on tv and in the charts and on tour, the house always wins. Tbh what Spotify is doing is only further playing into the hands of the industry as it pushes more artists to rely on labels to be successful financially which in itself is a roulette wheel. You either win big or end up in debt for the rest of your career
@@PaulThird Yes, that's true, but really for the vast, vast majority of artists, it's not worth paying for studios, studio time or even home recording kit because what most artists get back for all that effort is next to nothing, it's certainly not an investment, and that's for a lot of the signed artists as well. The unsigned artists and mixers/ producers aren't getting the return on investment, where a lot of the label chosen studios and engineers/ producers get given most of the gear for free because theyir having it in their studio and talking about it is great marketing and drives sales to gullible people. The Labels own Spotify, the companies and people that own the lables own the distribution, the playlists, the radio stations, the music media, the venues, the unions and the merch deals - all owned by the same people and, as George Carlin said "It's a big club and you ain't in it." 🙂
On a side note, as an little known artist I have to pay a lot of money to these studios just to make a song that I have to give away for free anyway. I feel their pain don't get me wrong but at least you're to the point where people are buying your (Acustica Audio) stuff too. All of my stuff, so far, is costing me not paying me.
That's why i chose the engineer path and not the artist path haha
@@PaulThird Lol. Trust me I'm trying to learn. That's why I listen to you.
I dont knno exactly the way it is "compromised" but dave derr talked about that problem when developing the arouser. Personally never had problems with it in reaper on windows. can use it on a "hundred" track without any cpu problems. Compared to the mike e of softube (which i like a little bit more) arouser is way mor cpu efficient on my system.
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I had no money have no money and have 'borrowed a few tools' to make some money... when I do I look forward to 'buying' more of the tools I need to complete the job. I repeat I look forward to having so much money I can go and empty the music store of all the tools I need, till then needs must I got work to do.
Paul you need a Behringer Wing mixer which has 41 effects on board.
Nah I need the space haha
@@PaulThird Hi Paul will you be doing Relab Maselec Mastering EQ plugin Steaky's favourite mastering eq and Make Believe Studio Sonitec Mastering EQ plugin both have trial periods.
Maybe. I dunno yet
This thread is simply wrong in at least a couple of ways, absolutely because it (perhaps uniquely) officially advertises the availability of a crack to all those who didn't know about it (thank you on behalf of all of us then...).
So ask yourself a question to your conscience if perhaps this clip should be deleted.
And it is conceptually wrong because protection is not really the user's business, since in the digital environment a software house is more like an insurance company than a product manufacturer: let's imagine your PC is your home, you buy insurance on your TV set, if your TV set gets stolen, the insurance company provides you with another one, and you are always protected. The problem of theft falls solely on the insurance company, but in return they ask you to put at least a good locking system on the doors and windows or they will cancel the insurance contract.
Ergo, you live in peace that you will always have the TV you bought, but to get into the house now you have to use a 30-second latch, whereas before you got in in less of 2 seconds. Plus the good latch costs money.
Any serious software house from medium-small to huge, in order to REALLY survive (grow, reserach, develop), is forced to literally waste their and their users' resources & time so that as much time as possible passes from the release of the plugin to the moment it is cracked.
Let's honestly say that SSD space has become an issue since the advent of ARM M at Apple, it used to cost users less than a standard iLok or e-licenser key.
If the crackers actually stole your paid software (and maybe with your name on it) so that you could never use it again and then make copies to distribute to their friends, you would be the first to take heavy security precautions. Trust me.
If people stopped cracking, there would be no need to waste PC resources for the entire industry to survive. But we all know that is a utopia.
That is.
It's not wrong at all. I have an audience of nearly 20,000 audio engineers, all use plugins. It's important to highlight and discuss the impact that illegal downloading has had on the plugins that my audience are paying for.
As a community it's important to give everyone a platform to openly discuss the current state of plugins as users. Lots of developers watch my videos and the hope is that they can use videos like this as open feedback and insight into how users and potential customers feel about certain aspects of plugins.
Read the comments. There are users who have bought the plugins, using cracked versions because they are optimised better, thats absolutely crazy.
You may see it as "advertising" piracy, it's not. It's discussing a part of the audio industry that affects everybody. It's not a secret, never has been.
As soon as we become publicly fearful of discussing topics that affect us and others, we become mere audio simps happy to accept whatever fate is chosen for us by those pulling the strings
@@PaulThird I don't see it as an advertisement, rather as a public legitimisation of a group of illegal illegals, unfortunately seemingly unassailable, however much we all like to think that stealing (even strictly confidential information internally) to give to the poor is a virtuous thing.
The power of computing machines is not absolute, so there is no point in talking about the loss of valuable resources net of performance if the defences of the industry itself are at stake.
Well... We'll have to agree to disagree
Paul, how can Acustica justify putting astronomical amounts of data onto my HD for ‘piracy avoidance’
Just to end up, with ALL of their plugins pirated?
So, why is this excess of wasted drive space here again? WHY?
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I have no problem with copy protection, people put a lot of work into creating interesting software and they should be paid for it. However, what really annoys me is the sheer number of different loaders / authorisation programs that litter my hard disk. Is it not possible for manufacturers to agree a single standard that they all use?
Maybe a super long demo? Like 6 months or whatever so at the end.. If you dont end up using it then you won't bother your arse to crack it, and if you want it then you have the option to buy it
But I doubt they'll do that as it may still lead to a crack regardless or it gives people enough time not to be drawn into the release hype
The companies that make the authorization apps, downloaders, and "anti-piracy" spyware are basically gangsters running a protection racket. It's a whole industry that has nothing to do with making music, but it's funded by musicians who have to pay a premium on their plugins so that ilok shareholders get their cut. The plugin manufacturers don't need protection from the gangsters (who say "We'll protect you from pirates") but they have been bullied into thinking that they do. The plugin manufacturers tend to lose their shit when they notice that they pay a fortune for "protection" and it doesn't even work. The whole "anti-piracy" sub-industry could just disappear and it would be good for customers and good for plugin manufacturers. It would be bad for the parasites that control the licensing though.
Native Access is bloated and runs a rootkit on your harddrive,thats how they protect there I.P.......allegedly!
So are you saying that most big developers have access to users computers?..allegedly
isn't it called Native Access?It´s right there in there name!If they have complete access to the users computer i say no!Are they leaving behind files to protect there software i say yes,and probably bloat your computer with hidden files,just look at the case of Acustica plugins!Try removing all native software from your computer,go offline and reinstall traktor pro 3 and its activated again so there leaving behind someting!And with all the proprietary software they use who knows what they have access to on peoples computers
@@PaulThird
@@PaulThird isn't it called Native Access?It´s right there in there name!If they have complete access to the users computer i say no!Are they leaving behind files to protect there software i say yes,and probably bloat your computer with hidden files,just look at the case of Acustica plugins!Try removing all native software from your computer,go offline and reinstall traktor pro 3 and its activated again so there leaving behind someting!And with all the proprietary software they use who knows what they have access to on peoples computers
Artists, following the acoustica model and others, should consider implementing a form of protection for each released song./s Even though you upload it to platforms like Spotify, RUclips, etc., someone eventually leaks the song, and individuals end up listening to it for free. What if an artist intentionally includes dropouts in the unpaid version, and only when you purchase the song, those dropouts are removed? This would be total maddnes. Instead of concentrating on the quality of plugins and their efficiency, some people are stuck in the past. The issue with UAD and Acustica is that legitimate users suffer primarily. (Look at FF, these plugins are so smooth) Those who aim to pirate either await the crack or abstain from using those plugins altogether.
Yeah and know what's absolutely mental (I was thinking this the other day).. See if an engineer had cracked an entire bundle from a dev and got a Grammy using their plugins, I GUARANTEE you that they would still advertise that engineer and wouldn't give a shit cause the endorsement is worth more than the lost sales.
This industry can be absolutely backwards sometimes
With that much free stuff out there, im suprised people bother with cracks
Yup but youtube & IG marketing is VERY strong these days haha
Most plugins are given away by companies for promotions, joining the mailing list, surveys, etc.
even top plugins
For example, a few months ago I got the free fast bundle for watching a masterclass :3
I bought other plugins with discounts
great conversation here
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It wasn’t the crack it was Pro Tools that crashed
In my case it was 100% the crack cause as soon as I moved perpetual all those issues dissapeared
That's a tough situation for them. I mean, of course there will always be buyers don't get me wrong but what options do they have. At the same time. if there's a way to dial it down I'm sure they already considered that. The issue with subscriptions is greed. Allow us to make payments but grant us ownership after the suggested price is reached. If they stop trying to resale the same product annually and just allow ownership the subscription idea would completely remove piracy. I give this kind of advice all the time but these big corporations don't listen to the wise, they only listen to the rich.
Money talks
@@PaulThird Now I guess you are talking investor money? Because it seems quite clear that the subscription model isn't working that well. All streaming services are struggling. And makers of music software, if they haven't already will start having trouble as well. The prices are too high, so people will not be able to subscribe to that many services, meanings, that when there is enough subscription services out there, there will simply be to much competition, and growth will taper off, or turn in to loss of subscribers. Rent to own, or rent to own'ish services (when you have access to more plugins than you are down paying on) are better suited as they lower the bar of entry for more expensive plugins. When the subscription war is fully here, makers wil have to come up with enough new plugins to seem like a value, or people will switch. And just like with video streaming, at some point, there wont be enough new money coming in to keep producing new stuff. No music software company is as industry standard as adobe is in their fields, so for music software makers, adobe can't the a proof of concept for the music software industry.
I'm just talking in general. When it comes to business, money talks.
@@TheJonHolstein Very good observation. I completely agree. While we're trying to make money from our skills they're plugins can be an asset. Nevertheless, if we're paying a subscription and still can make a profit from the supplier how long will we "stick with it" and not take it personal. The plugin company is making their money yet I can't get a consistent income using this service. It takes a long time to get used to these plugins and hours of tutorials just to figure out what they do. Right.
Copy protection is stupid and the devs should just use the least intrusive, light weight protection they can because you can get into anything .. there is a A.I application that I'm not gonna name but you can Google A.I software that doesn't have boundaries and ya can get most of ya protection taken away with a few key commands.. but did you see what acustica posted on their RUclips page 😂..
Nah I didn't see that. I just got screenshots from an acustica user that was on their Facebook group
ruclips.net/video/_tclK_d1Hoo/видео.htmlsi=DsRV7lbU1jJRl_Kr JESUS that's embarrassing 🙈
That's bloody hilarious!!!
People with money, who want to support the developers, will pay. If you make things difficult, through DRM, etc. , they will look elsewhere.
Seems to be the case with many
Any work must be paid for. Do you want money for your music? Pay the plugin developers. It's fair.
When I started out with Cubase and Nuendo in the early 2000’s I had plenty of hooky VSTs. Moved to PT totally legit start of 2007 and it was still janky AF and you got hounded by arseholes on the DUC accusing you of having cracked plugins when the real issue was Digidesigns absolutely mental programming in PT to tie stuff to their hardware as a dongle. Notice how ‘unrelated’ errors massively decreased when they untied PT from hardware.
I still don't like to think about the ole PT days. My college was an avid run college, and PT would crash every room at least once a day 😂
Any software can be cracked, even with the most fancy dongles. There are a lot of people, who are just starting out or live in the parts of the world, where $50-200 is considered normal monthly salary or pension, like Africa or Asia or even Eastern Europe. What do developers think these people are going to do? :) Regional pricing and no protection (just trust your customers, who paid to you) is the most fair and right way to do it as to me.
That's what I'm trying to tell people who are telling me "if you can afford to buy acustica plugins you can afford to buy space".. Its not the point. You shouldn't need to upgrade 500gb SSD to 1tb just so you can have more plugins available. I had every PA plugin installed when I had the subscription and I didn't need to buy more SSD space.
i have all sorts of plugins. Payed , free, pirated. which ones do i use more? Reaper natives. I just deleted a few waves plugins and most of the pirated stuff. I just wasnt using them. I may still have the odd one or two, but they dont get a lot of use. Moral, i dont spend money on plugins but i do like to check out whats out there. Why did i get rid of waves stuff? Convoluted setup and updates were more than i payed. No thanks, i dont like spending time on setting up accounts and all the crap that involves. Did i mention the constant adds in my mail. I do pay for stuff that works for me. Reaper, BIAB, EZD3. Other stuff, not so much.
For whatever reason I've found that my waves plugs take quite a bit of cpu on studio one (like 6%) and I'm pretty sure it due to my refusal to not pay for upgrades. Think my versions are 9 & 10
@@PaulThird oh yea.....upgrades....$159 when i only payed $29 for the plugin.............WTF do they think they are?
The mentality that software piracy is stealing just is not the case. No one sees it that way, the problem if your price and choice to make the abikity to obtain the software more difficult than piracy.
As with steam, have regular sales with deep discounts, plugin alliance and Plugin boutique know how sell plugins, the moment you realise you are compete8ng with piracy and set your goal to beat them the only way you can. You will get all the sales you possibly can. Maybe not for the price you like but the market determines that, not you, the whales and people with more cash to spend will maybe buy a copy but if you want to sell to the masses you gotta price it for the masses. Im not marketing expert but I have like many spent thousands on software over the years, never buy full price. I can wait & I can go without if it think the devliper itls too greedy for what theyre selling.
This video shows up as I was downloading the R2R El Rey crack lmao
Fuck sake 🙈 haha
I believe that we should pay for plugins and support companies... I do think that they should keep prices real and fair :) By the way love that kick shaper plugin and used on my new single :) Tell your man he made a great job of that one :)
Yeah I've used it on every bass and kick since he sent it to me 👌
I love when black friday comes and some plugin companies are like, buy our plugins for 95% off! And you look and the plugin is still $50 and your like wtf.
I pay for what I use, but also think that devs who use draconian CP richly deserve what they get when they get cracked.
Charging for licence transfers is just as wrong as piracy IMO. How about a shout-out to some of the companies that *don't* do that, U-HE, PSP etc. NI never used to either, not sure if that's still the case.
For me, it's a hobby. I buy Reaper and use free plugins and VCV Rack. (I can't use them properly). In the past, I've read the R2R analysis. (The top teams do it for kudos, not money). Most of the VSTs where they remove the protection, end up smaller and use less CPU. Sad, but a part of the software business. Paul, if you were not doing the cracking in the past, the police won't bother you. It's mostly a civil case where the companies go after the teams and distributors - unless they make an example of you 😏
Good luck getting the evidence, that laptop has been LOOOONG scrapped haha tbh they could make an example of me if they really wanted HOWEVER. . Maybe I just made that up for the video 😜 who knows muhahahaha
@@PaulThird What is unfortunate is how little money most music makes for the majority of producers.
Spotify has killed that now. Crazy society
@@PaulThird The spotify move is mad, especially since uploading requires a distributor, and some at least could cover that cost by the streaming revenues, even if they didn't actually make any money.
@@PaulThird Mate, there's people selling hundreds of thousands worth of (mainly prescription) drugs, but also some class A's on Instagram and getting away with it. The idea that you have to go on the dark web and get your computer filled up with CP, because you don't know what you''re doing and there's people that like to frame noobs for shits and giggles, ( a truly horrific prospect), because you want a few valium are long gone. All the major. resources in Internet policing are going on preventing terrorism, catching pedos, hunting money launderers/major fraudsters and working out the the networks behind people trafficing rings. So, you're pretty safe admitting to using a Protools crack a few years ago. There's no task force out there, with your photo on a wall of perps from 15 years ago, saying, "oh yes, we finally got him". Chill bruv.
Piracy or not, Acustica is a resource hog, so it can't be the reason their plugins are so HDD/CPU heavy. Somebody lied to you.
I never said its the sole reason. I said it's came out that security protection is a contributing factor. Did you watch the video?
With the quality of stock plugins now there's no excuse for using cracks under the guise of "I'm learning so it's ok to use cracks". These days most DAWs give you all the plugins you need built in to learn to be a good mixer. So if you're actually so hard up that you can't afford 3rd partly plugins (and most are not exactly expensive these days) build your skills, mix some local bands (using stock plugins) and use that money to buy the 3rd party plugins you want. If you can't produce a good mix with stock plugins, 3rd party plugins are not going to help you. If you could shop lift and get away with it, is that ok? Of course not. Using cracks is no different. 10-15 years ago when stock plugins weren't as good, if you were learning you might had and an excuse. These days, you really don't.
Now listen to AiR
Woo yeah AiR
We crack it all right
We crack it all right
We crack it all right
We crack it all right
So it's all right
Have a good time
We crack it right
Ooh crack it right
We don't crack it slow
Like some brothers below
Syncrosoft the base
Feels like a grace
For AiR is right
We crack it right
😁
My main problem with Acustica plugins is not realy the space they take on the drives, it's they're real CPU hogs. Perhaps they sound cool but they're realy badly optimized in my opinion, they seem to be coded with the feet.
That's why I'll never steal an Acustica plugin nor buy one for now. 😁
(But to be realy honest I've never used a cracked plugin since 30 years, so I'm maybe not a reference in this domain)
I wonder if the cpu could be improved though by scrapping the protection 🤔
@@PaulThird Well maybe, but is it worth the time & effort? It's hard to imagine a copy protection eating such a large amount of CPU. If the baby is born so badly programmed I would not want to waste my time to do the good job the Acustica guys should have done at the begining instead of stacking millions lines of codes without thinking about the final customer. Frankly there're tons of alternatives to Acustica.
I think it's definitely worthwhile for those customers who have bought and already using the plugins already in their sessions. If they are happy with their plugs then any improvement is a benefit
Shiver my timbers
Me timbers***... Eeeeaaaarrrrggghhhh
sadly still a "thing" piracy exists in software since the early ages. Companies tried so many things not to get cracked,hacked or whatever...and the more expensive brands get even more attraction than a company who sells stuff at 5 bucks... I used cracked software decades ago but stopped if I can't afford it I just don't buy/use them there are enough alternatives.
Yeah that's how I see it. Before youtube, if I couldn't afford it I just waited till a sale or moved on to something else.
Who even steals shit anymore in today's world. Everything's been devaluated to a point where companies are constantly throwing shit at you for peanuts and often literally free and they're expected to do that.
Yeah I think it's more the expensive plugs being targeted
Never heard of R2R I promise,
....................
Intellectual property theft is just that: theft.
Just save up a little cash and wait for some Black Friday deal or get in on the ground floor of a new product at an introductory price.
I would feel guilty stealing someone else’s hard work. There is no justification whatsoever for “cracking” software.
Some just have a more selfish and impatient attitude when they are younger. It was normal to me when I was younger but your mindset definitely changes as you get older. That's what I found anyway.
I can give you multiple justifications..
1) Subscription models -- when I purchase a piece of software, the work and investment has already taken place - it's not ongoing. If there are bugs then they should be fixed for free as the customer has paid for a marketed experience of a functioning piece of software (and there is no degradation of a digital product through use, the code stays the same). The software company has an obligation to uphold their marketed promise of functional software. Now there are cases in which rolling upgrades could be possible that change or improve functionality, but in that case the customer should be able to decide whether they want to accept the upgrade. In addition most subscription models are not offering rolling upgrades. Instead the software becomes a service, in which the company has to provide no additional capital to continue providing that service. That is a forced rent market.
2) Copy protection has been shown time and time again to reduce performance and increase instability. There is a valid case to be made that someone who is a legitimate owner of a software key, would want to use a ' 'cracked' piece of software where the copy protection is removed.
3) Most intellectual property in the plugin space is design oriented. The techniques of DSP in use can be found in academic papers, and your same morality argument could be applied to many of these developers. Are they paying licensing fees to the universities that technically own (at least in the US) novel DSP techniques?
4) Privacy concerns-- once again back to copy protection. There is very little if any oversight into what type of data can be collected by copy protection and the ways in which it can be used. Now piracy opens you up to new risk, but generally the days of risk, especially from the more reputable groups doing this work, is behind us. People point to cases of malware in 'cracked' software, but if you have 20 legitimate plugins collecting your data without your knowledge, sending data back to a company without you knowing what's being collected... Well that sounds a lot like malware to me.
Now I say all this to say.. there has been an acceleration in FOSS plugins over the past 5 years. And I high suggest people give a shot to open source projects. You will be surprised at how much of the fancy DSP promoted by these larger plugin developers really isn't that novel.
Interesting debate this; just an observation from an outsider;
is cloning another companies creation/hardware and making money from it yourself even by not naming it directly but using similar GUI and colour schemes to suggest the original actually the far more significant ‘theft’? There may be a case for multiple infringements of intellectual property. Vs companies like UAD that sought permission and were given it.
@@edrugmanmusic no, it's just "modeling" :)
just change the logo and name to "similar" during "intellectual theft" and everything ok.
And no, wait... this is what only big companies can do.
That's only one reason to use a cracked program. There are legitimate reasons. For instance not wanting to have your paid for session in an expensive studio go to hell because the iLok couldn't phone home. You can still buy the plugin and run the crack, there by navigating this potentially very expensive downtime which is significantly more expensive than the purchase price of the plugin.
Speaking as a professional,
You never update the machine you work on.
This was significantly a bigger issues in the 90s that it is today, and it is still a good idea to not do updates during a production. But there are times that you have to, and the way to deal with this is to build another boot drive with the new code, test it, and if it's working then introduce it into the work flow.
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Remember to check out my working audio tools podcast with Ed Thorne 🤓🤓
I don't crack. I boycott. I've already dane it with waves, 8Dio and now acustica. I want to do business with people I respect.
I have no cracked plugin in my library, but neither any Acoustica. And I don't care for these SSD and CPU hogs. You do you, but there are countless alternatives and I'll stick to them, that's just me.
You do you boo
@@PaulThird Im completely with Klanghelm and others on this: Don't hurt your customers.
I hope the devs read the comments from this video and take a long hard think about making changes. I doubt acustica will though, G is notorious for being one of the most stubborn plugin CEO's of all time
@@PaulThird Amen to that! Although strangely enough, there are quite some hardcore Acoustica fans.
I don't hate them, but I'm also not overwhelmed. I'm not starting to name other companies, to get nobody started :).
My honest opinion is: save up for it. Stop smoking, stop toking, stop drinking booze... If you really need a plugin you can't afford at the moment, then save up for it.
its really way more than how affordable it is...i just bought supertone clar for $29....i would never pay more for it even though its the only plugin of its kind...i cannot justifyc the $70 - $100 they want for it,.....when it was already FREE FOR MONTHS
depends on the country, some are just at the borderline that you have to save 1-2 years just to be able the sale of WAVES blackfriday bundles
Sorry Tony.. But.. As a scotsman I can't agree to stop drinking booze 😂
@@PaulThird but you can give up fried mars bars for a while? 😁
@@yasunakaikumi I think we're talking about the UK but I see your point
done the rabbit hole. you mean the mole hole pehnfold amigo.
Nah...mole hole must be a Fife thing 😂
@@PaulThird its def a mole hole. access gained from a postbox in London. meh wee Pehnfold. do you think we will ever catch Baron Greenback?
I've never downloaded an illegal plugin. I belive in paying for something I use - just me Paul.. hope your well mate.
I think it's more of a generational thing in most cases. I think when you are younger the temptation is stronger and many lack the maturity and patience. Being completely honest, I didn't give a fuck when I was younger. I didn't have much money so I just did what I wanted. It wasn't until I got a big boy job, settled down and had kids that I became more responsible
Se na Europa as pessoas usam plugins crackeados, imagina nós aqui no Brasil com o dólar 5x mais caro.😢
Let he who is the cause of his own evil weep for himself.
@@DropoutSoundeu gostaria de viver nesse seu conto de fadas... Acreditando que as pessoas são livres para escolher quem as governa. Acreditando em um pseudo democracia, hoje as grandes não financiam candidatos .
It is not a political issue but a practical one, I come from Italy where even here 98% of software is used illegally too, even in the highest offices. It is more of a moral issue that then translates into confusion due to the fact that everyone has access to them so no one has any real value in the labour market. Ergo, no real labour market.
Owning and using software is not an inalienable right (like ie. the access to water) so everyone feels entitled not to pay to do their hobby/work. They are products that often generate business, so they must be protected and paid for in order to protect the to protect the very foundations of the business itself.@@G.Faustini
Professionals, who charge money from their work should never ever use pirated software. I allow it for those who do not earn a cent from their hobby.
But I've seen professionals using pirated plugins and that disgusts me...
Yeah I don't personally agree with professionals using pirated stuff, especially youtubers
What if a professional that earns money for their work buys a plugin, rents time in an expensive studio, and then can't work because the copy protection has decided that they are not a legitimate user, even though they are 100% legitimate? Do you still think this isn't a reason to employ cracked software? You've already paid for it, you just want to use it, and the protection wont allow it to happen. Does that disgust you too?
@@chokocat9064 so you're saying that you start to set up a torrent software on the spot, downloading who knows what key generators and viruses on that studio computer just to get your plugin working?
Naaaah....
Flaky copy protection on plugin: don't buy it or make it a part of your workflow. Reliability is far more important for a professional than what shiny newest tube eq model of a VST is available from what ever "boutique" plugin vendor that week.
Great work has been done and is being done with plugins that come with the DAW, it's all about who uses the software.
@Mtaalas No that's not what I said. I'm not suggesting that you nor any neophyte on RUclips try any such thing. I'm simply stating that I can imagine why people would employ cracked plugins for legitimate reasons. If you take the time to learn about organizations such as R2R you'll learn that they fully support purchasing the applications that you use. They remove copy protection in an effort to provide the performance from the applications for which you have paid.
I should probably also point out that in addition to plugins there are DAWs that employ copy protection, so just because you only use the included plugins that doesn't necessarily protect you from enjoying the reduced performance of a copy protected program.
I have no idea if you drive so a car analogy may not convey this concept, but imagine that you bought a brand new car, and it could only go forward in first gear. However, you could take it to a shop and they would enable it to use all the forward gears, and reverse. That's basically what's going on with these organizations that remove the copy protection. They are simply enabling you to be able to get the full performance out of the programs for which you have paid.
If you have fears, such as you have listed, then it is highly advised that you not seek to follow these tenets, but at the very least you should be able to understand why some people do, without the need to disparage them for it. They are simply trying to gain full use of the products for which they have paid.
Nah, dont endorse pirating. Stuff is so cheap nowadays and stock plugins are good. The only reason i could see for pirating plugins is if you bought it already, but the pirated version gets rid of annoying drm or bugs.
It doesnt make a statement against bad devs. The devs will see the pirated numbers and blame the consumers for their failures anyway.
If you disagree with a company, ignore them altogether. There are plenty of devs that derserve your respect.
Paul you look a lot like 23ish. "Back in my early 20s" is just few years ago. 🤔
I'm 34 with 2 kids haha
Never admit to a crime in your RUclips videos, Paul lol.
We'll see if I had to edit that bit out 😅 haha
Hard drive space is very cheap today.
How cheap are we taking like?
@@PaulThird if you can't afford the drive space then you surely can't afford the plugins either. I would be more worried about CPU utilization
That's not what I asked
@@PaulThird Really bro'? Do you complain about memory space (on Windows)? Let's say you have 100 AA plugins 5GB each = 0.5TB(-) space. A Solid State Drive (SSD) Kingston NV2 1TB, PCIe 4.0 NVMe, M.2. = 60 EUr. My question is...after all those plugins, you don't have 60 EUR for memory?
@@dab7963 Exactly !
If a plugin is sample-based, I can see it taking up multiple GB. If the plugin is not sample-based and takes up that much space, that tells me those writing it are just lazy. There is absolutely zero reason for such high storage needs be it copy-protection or not. As for stealing software...if you feel the need to do this, you might be better off crawling out of the gaming chair, shutting off the streaming BS and getting a paying job for a while.
There's a difference between 1-2gb and 9gb from a convolution plug though. RX10 advanced is just over 1gb. Some acustica stuff is downright mental space wise
There is nothing wrong with criticizing when plugin developers punish their supporters (paying customers) for the possibility of piracy by others. I don't subscribe to the "a few ruined it for the many" mentality because it doesn't work. I as a consumer will never accept that I deserve a worse experience because of the actions of others.
Whether you receive plugins for free as marketing decisions by the devs or not, that has no relevance to the merit of your statement. I tend to avoid pirating plugins. I also tend to avoid buying plugins that use things like iLok and other annoying DRM solutions. You think I want to keep a text document on my computer with a list of licenses to all my software, because the devs themselves can't be bothered to make that available on my account screen or wherever else? No. I don't, and I feel that those devs are really cheap for doing so. Like if you can't be bothered to do your part to make sure I have access to what I paid for, why should I even use your software at all? Imagine if someone gave me money to clean their yard and I told them "ok, you've paid for this and all that but if you don't remember your transaction verification number when I get there, then sorry, you're out of luck".
🤓🤓
I used to years ago but the problem with viruses and being hacked is not worth it... the amount of times I've lost everything from it.
The way I saw it was the fact there was a different price for some thing using it as a hobby or doing it professionally and that was my excuse... if I was making money from then I'll pay for it.
I don't have a massive morel thing with it as these companies make a lot of money from utter crap.
I'm the same disagreeing with selling them as they are dangerous and now you got people to pay for them... brilliant, worse than the drum monkey people.
But if people that pay for it suffer is silly.. they should just make a better system.
Why not just have to sign in with a two factor login each time you start your computer?
That would be annoying when your internet is down.
It seem like self sabotage to make your plugin used too much resources to have it not happen.
Here's a car that can not be stolen... but it cost £2000 a day in petrol to run.
I know it's a very tough thing to manage. That's why I think you've just gotta accept it and focus more on building a solid fan base of users who will pay.
Look at Tunca from analog obsession for example, living proof that you can make a living not caring about piracy. The man has almost 1800 paid patreon members and he gives out his plugins for free, all because he built a solid fan base of users who appreciate him and want to keep that going
@@PaulThird That guy and those plugins I do love.
Becuase he was doing it out of want to make the good product they are great.
Abd becuase it was just him having a patron was enough to make it a good business investment.
Now he's can't be victim of piracy becuase they are free.
Unfortunately, these other companies have more money going on staff and publicising than ever going into the plugins.
People then feel ripped off... and if you are not making a living off of it then what is the point?
I myself just learned to risk to my computer downloading fake stuff too many times and the plugin very rarely worked as they were meant to.
This was just the fact if a company could be scamming you then some faceless person copying things has less reason to be integral and will use the illegal thing they made for you to download as validation to mess with your computer... like so Dubai Instagram scandal passing the shame onto the victims.
The made the iLock system ages ago... now computers have changed a lot just make a new system of that type of thing, simple.
Maybe something more complicated that you unlock with swipe keys or something.
Maybe a pain the the bum but fine after.
That could also become a blessing when sharing projects.
Imagine now if you send someone a project you can send them a temporary version of all the plugins you used?
It could also act as a security system for ourselves and out computers not getting hacked.
Capitalism is the best system we have but it's founded via the marketing system and marketing is founded in not quite telling the truth... or rather leaving out things if it is honest.
There's no friends out there... only companies like analog obsession are visible friends and there is not many of them.
All the rest are those friends you keep think you need but you are always going back to them becuase you're actually starved of your needs and there just for some breadcrumbs to just keep going .
I think that after this "incident" and with this A.I (tools) era, plugins will thrive !
Piracy is freedom, not theft, and the "industry" is biting the hand that feeds it by adopting an unsustainable and self defeating attitude to those people who delight in using their software. It is the responsibility of the artist to use all means to create their art, and to question meaningless laws that threaten that responsibility.
The corporate mindset would see culture denied the impoverished genius. At the same time they would threaten their legitimate supporters by peddling them sub-standard goods and snake oil.
There are free alternatives to almost all of the established paid for plugins, and if there is no free version of a particular plugin then that probably means the plugin is redundant.
Make your software free so that everyone can use it. Add pro quality features that hobbyists and amateurs don't need and charge for those. Have an honesty box and let your real fans pay you. Charge money for support. Adopt a value for value model. Create a supportive and active community who loves your product.
And forgive those who use your software without paying. It's not a lost sale, it's a compliment.
Why are you talking about it in mainstream?
Cause I feel it needs talked about as a community. I didn't even know that acustica plugins were compromised due to their own security until last week
If we can make paid plugins more efficient for everyone then surely worth discussion considering I know a lot of plugin devs will watch this
@@PaulThird the question is which community are you speaking for. Sound engineers? Users? RUclipsrs? Acustica endorsers?
With all due respect, but in my opinion you are doing a damage to everyone with this video.
Acustica gets a lesson, but who is to know knows, Junkcarlo gets tons of messages about it from 'witches'. It's up to them what conclusions they draw. Maybe they will learn how to program without 13GB of bloatware. Bringing the unnecessary discussion about piracy to the mainstream will only help legitimize the need to overload plugins with security features. You don't need to talk about certain things because it draws unnecessary attention. You yourself mention that you were once there.
I respect your work and your activity on YT, but in this case, for the sake of the community, PLEASE drop the topic.
I think people who download illegally won't buy the plugins either way. I do it because I'm fucking broke, I'll do what I have to do till or if I finally can make a living with music, once that happens I'll definitely pay for the ones I use the most and get rid of everything else.
Thanks for sharing
A Scotsman suggesting I just spend more money because it’s the right thing to do but he gets it for free. Italians selling an overpriced bloated product that at the same time looks super cool and stylish. I suppose next you are going to tell us it gets chilly in the winter?
I didn't tell anybody to do anything... Do what the fuck you want, it's your life 🤷♂️
I said "suggest" not "told", but its a joke man. Nice emoji.
OK cool. My YT troll detection plugin must not be working today. Saying that I did pay for it so may have to look for a crack...
Acustica has a very liberal demo policy and their plugins are useable to me even with my basic computer. I usually have to do a round of printing through an effect if I want to use multiple effects, or their oversampling. I buy everything I use or use demos/freeware. It's intellectual property. I only steal if I'm hungry. I was making a racist joke that Scots are cheap, and Italians sell cool looking expensive things that are not known for value or efficiency, but style. BC I'm Scottish and Italian and German and that leaves a lot of racism left on the table, for me, if you can talk about your own!
Saw a MyMixLab video with Luca Pretolesi where he used a plugin registered to R2R..
LOL !
If every Tom, Richard and Mary could get free iPads MacBooks and iPhones would Apple still be in business?
Man that's a TERRIBLE example.
that's hardware. Software is different. Software is pure profit, once you've created it, there's nothing else to invest in.
Hardware has lengthy R&D, manufacturing costs, distribution costs. It would be impossible for a company to create an apple product like for like and then give it away for free. That's why it's an unrealistic example
A sampled plugin is something you could do in an afternoon. There is no constant manufacturing, there is no shipping costs. It's mostly pure profit. You don't need to cut price for distributors. You charge what you want and get the full shilling.
OK you have a business, premises and staff to pay for like any business but you make a lot of cream on the top when you do it right. Let's be real.. Would a company that's hard up travel around the world to sample random pieces of gear? Would a company that's financially struggling be able to heavilly invest in something like Sienna and that shitty mic modeller? Would a hard up company have the marketing budget to invest in a youtuber with over 100k subs?
I know they do well for themselves. Piracy is people that would never buy there plugins in the first place. I know first hand the amount of people that have bought acustica plugins due to my shootouts. We are talking tens of thousands, and that's just from what I know about from DM's and comments.. And thats just one youtuber
This R2R crack isn't anything new, it's been going on whilst all the sienna investment, whilst all the trips, really it's been going on for many years and still acustica continue to invest.
Its very simple, look after your paying customers and accept that people that crack will never be your paying customers
I think donationware it's a good alternative for all the parts
I'm not too sure about that tbh from a business perspective. Devs have still gotta eat so I'd rather they offered a fair price for their work and scrapped the security stuff