How did you know this. We have never met. When people react like "Do you think you are always right,never wrong." "Yes,this time you are right", Is my response.
I don't get why people are intimidated at all, I am not saying I am right all the time, but rather I am right until another better, more "correct" perspective comes along, in which I will then revise my stand. People have the misconception that we are close-minded and don't even put up a fight even though they think we are wrong, not realizing we are some of the most open-minded people out there waiting on a worthy opponent..
entjs have the same energy but prepare to get physical coz they will use every cheap trick just to win even if surrounded with facts , they dont care about the truth at all when confronted but not in a narcisstic envious way the rest of the types do it would just be like i said a fight :)
Agree. I think we are very open minded, but because we lead with Ni we go through many perspectives of one topic until we decide which one is correct to us, that's when we get "stubborn" about our opinions, but it's just because our mental process was not seen by others. It's just that every other perspective was not as accurate as the one we chose as correct, and changing our mind requires others to give us perspectives we hadn't considered yet.
@@BlueMarsh27 Exactly! I feel like I probably seem way more open-minded during the whole "deciding" process about certain things, which can take years. During the deciding process, I'm open to any new perspectives...any of them could turn out to be right, who knows. But once I think I've seen every argument I start to get a little more stubborn. Then it requires a new perspective I haven't seen before to make me reconsider.
This is a bad habit I have: Sometimes I get into arguments without knowing why. Someone will make a statement that for some reason I disagree with, and I'll start arguing with them. I don't know how or why they're wrong but I'll figure it out while we discuss it. Surely, at some point, they'll make a trivial fallacy and I'm right once again.
Dackson Flux. My INTJ does that to me, points out a trivial fallacy then sits back with his arms crossed as if he has won the whole argument, LOL. I’ve learned to say, “Yes, you are absolutely right and I am wrong about that point, however, let’s get back to a, b, c and x,y, z.” I will often concede a trivial fallacy even when I don’t think I am wrong..... Because I see it for what it is, a decoy, often deployed when he’s losing ground in the argument. Ah, fascinating, fun creatures you INTJs.
@@leienc5771 oh I make sure we stay on topic. An INTP friend of mine will try to argue with me about crap that's totally unrelated. He'll be like, "yes, but some whales have baleen" when the argument is about how frequently humans should brush their damn teeth... drives me crazy and he knows it. But yeah, I've been accused of arguing for the sake of arguing.
And sometimes it's misinformation. That happens when you go back to re-check the facts and discover you got wrong information from a seemingly-credible source. Ni freak out.
I think I'm definitely guilty of this sometimes. However, most of the time I'll only claim to be right about something when I'm 100% sure I'm right, rather than glaze over doubt with overconfidence.
I was in a good relationship with an INTJ for two years. We were a great fit in many ways but thinking back I noticed that she hadn’t apologised once during that time. It’s beyond frustrating when only one party admits to mistakes (intp)
INTJs kinda live by... "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant." ~Harlan Ellison ...but in a good way.
0:57 this is how it goes.. person: is this glass empty, full, or half full? INTJ: the glass is full almost all of the time, with very few exceptions. person: no, the glass is half full because it has the capacity to hold 8 oz of liquid and I poured 4 oz. in. INTJ: no. at any time the glass can contain solids, liquids, or gases. You placed 4 oz. of liquid inside which partially displaced the air already in it. The glass is still full, the contents are simply not unified of a similar type. In order for the glass to be empty you would have to place it inside of a vacuum. Even then the glass would only be 99.9999% empty because there would still be fine particles on the inside of the glass. person: I'm not inviting you to my birthday party. INTJ: all is well. You blow, and that is a useful talent for filling birthday balloons.
(I’m definitely not an INTJ) I would have asked more questions about the glass, especially if it was a theoretical question. What kind of glass? What do you normally use this glass for? Etc. Then I would give my answer so that I’ve taken into account what is possible and it’s actual function in reality. It would leave little room for gases or other non liquid substances since its main actual function was for liquids. At least that’s how I would have looked at that question.
The glass is mostly empty all of the time. Since matter is 99.9999999% empty space even when you "fill" it up with something it's still pretty much empty.
I'm usually proved to be right, however, I'm definitely not always right and I know it. Reality is more important than having to be right. As an example, there was this one time on a debate board I practically lived in where I was debating something and the other guy showed me where my information was not sound. I got very excited and thanked him for showing me where I was wrong. He was floored and confused. Apparently, he had never heard of anyone in the history of online debate conceding they were wrong, much less being happy about it. ;)
That's why you want to hang out with INTPs. On one hand, we love finding exceptions and logical flaws (but don't take it personally!). On the other hand, we're happy to help you figure out where to move the goalposts to still be right!
Interesting. I decided quite a while ago that being true to myself, and right in my own head (which is the one that matters most), is the most important thing. Of course new information can create new thoughts. When considering points of view, 'everything' is relative. Someone can have a different point of view from the majority, and be right. He/she may have insight that the 'normal' majority doesn't have. Just a thought. Peace.
I do this all the time. No, Reality is definitely real. It's just infinite, so it doesn't fall into the same category as what we normally think of as real. Reality is just a synonym for "everything that exists". When you consider utterly everything, shit gets weird and paradoxical. This concept is also the most important understanding you can strive for. So when I (and maybe other INTJ's, I don't know) "move the goalposts" I'm actually expanding my perspective and making it bigger. The loss has made the limit of my perspective apparent to me. It was just the accidental occasion that served as a reminder. What I really want is not to win some pissing contest, but to merge with Reality, merge with the Infinite. That's why it's so irresistable.
I tend to do this a lot as I can bend and twist almost anything to have it seem “right”. Although most of the time it’s just me describing something from my perspective but people describe it as argumentative
I didn't realise how my critical thinking works until you put on this. People around me especially my family, classates, and teachers always complain how argumentative I am. My intention is not to create arguments at all, instead, when I see something slightly wrong based on my perspective, knowledge, and opinion, I mention it aloud. Unfortunately, they see me as RUDE as fuck everytime I stand up. They tell me to just stick to what I learn instead of questioning everything and that's exactly the stupidest thing I've heard in my entire life. Plus, everytime I get myself into an argument, when I add my points up by changing the perspective in the situation, as you said in the video (which I found lovely overwhelming because it really describes my actions), they say that I'm rude and just wanting to win every argument. I don't know how to make them understand that it comes natural from me and how I think. Living in a society is hard when people just don't get you at all. (Sorry for the rant. I just have been keeping this thought for a very very long time.)
Me: “dad always thinks he’s right, he always has to have the last word. It’s his way or the highway.” My sister: “yea but YOU always think you’re right too.” Me: “...yeaaaa...but when’s the last time I was wrong?!?!” My sister: “...yea, you’re right actually.” Me: “exactly. Stfu.”
Of course INTJs can be wrong. The point is most poople (sorry, I mean to say 'generics") can't subdue their ego in order to correct the mistake. INTJs however welcome constructive criticism and a more pure form of the truth. I personally use failure to fight stagnation. Who wants to be right all the time? Next you'll try to quantify the universe... it can't be done.
I wonder if our pursuit of more accurate truths stems from having been wrong in the past, and a desire to understand things more completely with a distaste for black and white thinking/conclusions (often provided by others) that have failed us. Perhaps we just become irritated with others who have seemingly very strong opinions when we sense that they haven't put the same work/thought into their theories, or fail to see the big picture. And perhaps some kind of bullheaded subconscious type Fi situation makes us value making the other person understand our point of view because of this. And I wonder if anything I just said makes any sense whatsoever lol. Basically, I have no problem being wrong. But I struggle to trust that I am wrong if the person I'm talking with can't show some sign they actually understand the big picture of what I'm saying. Because even very credible knowledge is proven wrong or incomplete all the time.
@@BrianOfAteionas yes, this makes sense. I often wonder about the same thing. I don't thirst for knowledge in the same way that INTPs do. I want to be as accurate as possible for the time it takes me to arrive at my destination. Trying to keep up with all perceived truths would be exhausting, pointless, and I suspect impossible. So being completely right doesn't happen very frequently and when it does occur it's at a painful price. When others take that process lightly, I seem to almost chide them.
@@BrianOfAteionas I think the Fi does play into it, as I'm realizing more as I get older. I realized I can rationalize just about anything, always find a way to be right, in order to prove a point, because the point means something to me. Sometimes I have a stance on something for reasons I don't think my opponent will agree with, and I can taylor my argument to that person using reasons I think they WILL agree with, reasons I personally don't care about. Because it's all about convincing them of the thing I want to convince them.
I've often thought of reframing success and rightness as an Enneagram 3 thing. Your quote of "there's no failure with Te" also seems relevant. Perhaps Enneagram 3 has some connection to that, contrasted with Enneagram 4 tendencies to wallow in Fi, which "has no successes" in whatever sense that might be true. These things together gives the INTJ stack high chances for success in all ventures - the space for failure at all is nearly completely eliminated. Ni reframeth and Te never faileth.
Interesting insight into the INTJ reframing process... for some reason as an INTP this doesn't bother me during a discussion with INTJ friends but now I understand the why and how I guess. INTPs are probably one of the likeliest types to call out the INTJ as we are very sensitive to changing assumptions and inconsistencies which may occur during reframing... still love INTJs... never a dull intellectual moment!
I have said for years I do not claim to be always right, I am never wrong. What I don't say is how. I have either removed all not right answers very rapidly in my head, planned for spontaneity long in advance (prepared for possible odd scenarios), or simply rephrased a scenario/question so my apparently wrong answer is no longer wrong. ;)
I am always right! gosh darn it, I am just going to say what I have always wanted to say..."I am always right". I know it, so why don't 'they' know it...or admit it... phew, that sure feels good to say what I think. Thanks, Li Jo yes, and because this is not the message you may have wanted to communicate, I sure really did and do. ho, ho, ho...Li Jo you have been a very good and funny girl this year. The elf on the shelf and myself are very proud of you and your content.
We are wrong, but now we are going to teach you something right, in exchange for the valuable thing you just taught us. We are not going let on to the thing you just taught me, however we are now going to master this thing, until the next thing😊
Haha I'm always impressed by INTJ's ability to argue. You have the 2 biggest argue weapons, firstly like you said, a focus on concepts and then secondly the entire spectrum of reasons to pick from that strengthen your argument haha 😂😂😂 (Manny)
Ha! Thank you for some validation here...Funny that it is the Architect personality type + my profession. I fall guilty of this sometimes, but the re-framing + contradictions just makes people go bonkers! Fortunately, my newly-embraced empath-ENFP-alt-self has risen to the occasion + can take over for damage control...
Yup. I can get rather "long winded" per say, when I am defending a point about something that others think is true, that is not in fact true, but then I end up running in circle competing with perception. And virtually arguing to myself. When "reality" is in question, people will always have their own POV, unfortunately if I know someone is wrong in a general sense, I can't help but correct it. People see this as me being emotional about something Fi. When in fact it's simply the INACCURACY that is driving me bonkers. (unless it's more of a personal matter I suppose)
Yes an inaccuracy related to the outside world vs the self come across differently in my opinion. We always take the inaccuracies related to the self way more personally (no doubt) lol
I often stretch reality to challenge ideas of other people. It's fun to see them struggle to understand the point of view I would present! In some cases, I pity them for being so confined in their own little sensory world. In other cases, I would get so annoyed, again with how one-sided and close-minded some people can be. In most cases, though, I just want to challenge myself if I could present as many versions of their reality to them as I can. It's great exercise for the mind. Plus, it's really fun to see them struggle! I would tell them "I mean the same thing as you've said!" and then they would get annoyed! 😂😂😂
My mother used to say half as a joke..."That's the first mistake I ever made!" ...and then go on to point out in quasi surprise... "But wait, that wasn't a mistake!" ...and then reframe and declare herself to still be President of the Perfect Club! Since it was always executed with such sincere good cheer and with her tongue (seemingly) firmly in her cheek, nobody ever got upset. I'm INTP and I catch myself trying to do this, too, but I'm only successful now and then, probably because I lack the committment. ;)
As an ISFP friend my INTJ is almost right all the time except the fact that i am extremely unpredictable and she can’t really predict me this much. Like she is right that i’m unpredictable and she is not surprised when i changed my mind within The last second. We are so opposite like i don’t even know what we see in each other yet we work well together and both actually tend to sometimes compromise. She is an artist though as Well. Like she paints as a hobby but her main focus is science while i am an artist first and later like science(i do like it but in a practical way not too much reading into. Like she loves both reading about horses and being with them while i prefer being with them.
Have you ever read LoTR or the Hobbit and other Tolkien books? I’ve always perceived the high elves 🧝🏻♀️ like they were Ni users, and especially have the habit of always being accurate. In my life, accuracies don’t even matter. It’s more about personal precision:)
I picked up on my INTJ “Moving the Goal Post” in the very beginning of our relationship. I think I might be the first person in his life to call him on it. I thoroughly enjoy running him back through our conversations and pointing out exactly where he flipped things. It drives him nutts but at the same time I think an INTJ is impressed with someone who can hold their own in a verbal spar.... The way I can tell I have won an argument with my INTJ is when he puts me in a headlock and messes up my hair.... hehehe
Step 1: Realize you uttered a falsehood Step 2: Recieve correct knowlege from conversation partner(s) Step 3: Use rest of conversation to ensure all other participants in the conversation understand that the correct perspective in fact came from you in the first place. Step 4: (Optional) Commence evil laugh in head or out loud, whichever is more appealingly
Technically correct is the best kind of correct! Also reality is so overrated. Abstract concepts get us intuitives so excited, but some people can´t share the enthusiasm for ideas or "unrealistic" but totally possible goals and theories.
Interesting. I did catch myself doing this a lot when I was younger. As you said, taking the core concept and (even conveniently) reframing so I could sound to others like I was right all along. So I'm guilty as charged, lol. However, I found that a good way to deal with this is verbalizing the reframing process to others, while keeping in mind the original statement. Stating that you weren't accurate at first (being very clear about you being wrong), but then establishing why this other new perspective could be plausible. For example saying something like "Yeah, TBH I guess you were right/I was wrong with this, but if you look at how this concept is essentially, it could have been also this other way" and then proceed to give examples for that new perspective. In my experience, if you start by owning up your mistake/inacuraccy, people are more willing to listen to an alternative perspective, and you get a bit of both worlds (conceding and not being to far off from being right).
Plus... your approach has the added benefit of being more intellectually honest... although, to be truthful, I almost never say "You were right/I was wrong...." However, I DO say "you have,a valid point/observation," and then I proceed to verbally "fit" that point into my original thought/answer... (maybe with a minor modification) I will say some types ARE better observers of sensory reality than I am. I deeply appreciate the pushback on a detail I may have missed... but I still try to fit it in.
I'm Si dominant, and having a somewhat difficult time figuring out what this reframing looks like in the sensory world... can anyone with savior Ni help me out by explaining an example of this reframing in action? Is it a conscious decision, to reframe and adjust? Do you notice it happening in the moment? Do other people notice that it's happening?
I find that it's one of two ways with me. 1. I'm either right about a topic or 2. I don't put a stake in the debate because I lack all of the facts to ensure I'm right.
Good video. I take the INTJ to be like a progressive scientist and ISTJ to more factually correct. However the past doesn't always repeat and I'd take the advice of an INTJ by default.
I've never really thought about this but I do it ALL THE TIME!! 😂😂 my friends ( the 3 that I enjoy lol) are always like, dang I thought I caught her... I guess I really do this a lot, whether it be a concept or just explaining why I thought something😂😂 people always have told me I'm good at BSing... it's my Ni! Awesome video!
LiJo thank you for the videos. It would be great if you can branch out and do videos about the other types, instead of focusing only on INTJ. I'm an INTJ (borderline INTP) myself. What type(s) do not like their judgment being questioned?
I may do that but the objective of my channel is to convey understanding within my personality type and provide tools for self growth amongst all personality types :)
@@InternetLiJo fair enough. I can use as much help as I can get with issues related to my personality. Although I am not officially diagnosed with autism, a psychiatrist seemed to think I have it, but I wonder how much of my difficulties relating to people stem from my INTJ personality type. People seem to think I am in my own world, I'm cold and robotic. I'd say this is more or less accurate. It's hard for me to find people I vibe well with. Thus I'm stuck in a kind of limbo where, although I may want to talk to people, I don't because I don't want to look stupid.
A weird thing that happens occasionally is I would think I was wrong about something but I was actually correct. But when I am wrong and there is another person or third parties I would say I was wrong if it made them feel better or something lol
My wife is an ENFJ, but Ni is high on her function stack of course and she does this brilliantly (she studied law, no surprise lol). Occasionally, I'll "win" an argument if it's something Fi related, such as trying to get her to think about her own needs, but otherwise I usually walk away feeling quite stupid >.< - infp
So I recently heard about your water drinking problem. I am half way between INTJ and INTP and my thing is math. I was wondering if explaining how water flows in a cup when drinking using equations and graphs would help? If so I'm solving the problem anyway so let me know if you want me to share. lol
I believe that INTJ can benefit greatly from learning the Socratic Dialog method; starting a conversation with a question instead of an accusation. Stoicism also helps the Worldview.
Hello, so I have a question about my personality type. I have frequently tested INTJ (with 66% intuitive on 16 Personalities) but I kind of relate to ISTJ too. I relate to intuition in that I focus mostly on the big picture and pay more attention to what's going on in my head rather than the reality of my surroundings. However I relate to sensing in that I don't naturally think in an abstract way. I think I'm capable of abstract thinking, but I naturally think of things in a more black and white/cut and dry way. Is it possible to be an INTJ if I think more cut and dry than abstract? Could having a black and white mindset be a part of the thinking trait of INTJs?
You could try keys2cognition.com (click "explore" when there) Self-typing is possible but it often requires time to get your personality right since one is often affected by the environment they're in. You could also try researching more on the jungian cognitive functions to discover which functions you use more and how they manifest in your life.
My wife is an ENFJ, but Ni is high on her function stack of course and she does this brilliantly (she studied law, no surprise lol). Occasionally, I'll be able to sort of "win" an argument if it's more Fi related, but otherwise I usually walk away feeling quite stupid >.< - INFP
Once when I was in 8th grade I had a group math test, me and three other girls. There was one question that I disagreed with their answer, but eventually I gave in because 1) they refused to listen cuz of majority vs. minority 2) ran out of time. The next day I talked to my math teacher alone and she said I was right, and I was lowkey angry. Same situation occured freshman year of high school and I managed to persuade my group to listen to me, I refused to back down. (Also I argued with them for like 30 minutes or less). We turned in of test and got 100%. I was so frickin proud😂 What I got from these experiences (and others) is that I will be 100% convinced that I am absolutely right unless you bring me solid logic and evidence that I am wrong. And you better count that it'll take a lot of time😂
what happens when two INTJs get together and debate?Any experience with that? I would imagine lots of goal post moving and perspective shifting and then nothing is resolved.
I think this way of thinking is why there's statistically a disproportionately large amount of INTJs as attorneys 😄. I could, and have, used arguments I don't even believe in, to prove a point I do believe in. Anything can be rationalized.
They even think they’re right when there Extremely wrong 😫, the one in the movie that says they’re fine walking home alone,the serial killer escaped the asylum was miles away, no way they’d be here. (Even though they could hitchhike or steal a car, etc... sorry infp here) that’s one example of intj logic... at least to me
I mean INTJs are always thinking about *everything* from multiple aspects and with multiple contingencies for that thought. So when someone is playing checkers with a concept we’ve played 3D Chess and forgot about it already for another idea. People think we have an issue with wanting to be ‘right’ but that’s not true at all...right is subjective...we are concerned with being *Correct* very different when you think about it. Often times people will think we’re wrong until something happens in THEIR life (i.e. reality) and then all of a sudden they’ll see what we said was correct all along. This is why people think we can ‘see into the future’ when in reality our brains are just using Ni at such advanced levels that we’re connecting seemingly unrelated phenomena into a cohesive story and we just know the outcome before everyone else. Which is why some people don’t like us because we seem to always be ahead of the curve and that can be intimidating to be around someone like us (I guess that’s why we’re only 1-2% of the population). This is also why we learn over time NOT to use this skill in public with the general population too much because it scares people how accurate we really are 🤷🏽♀️
BlairWaldorf2013 yeah... this is a recurring theme in my life. For example a friend has a complex social issue, I ask the right questions to gather all the information I can.. then tell them exactly what’s going on and how to solve it and give full explanations to everyone’s ulterior motives and actually identify the root cause of the issue. They don’t trust me because how could I know all of this and assume I’m making stuff up, or assume my conclusion is inaccurate. They find out the hard way over weeks and then finally reach the exact same conclusion I originally gave to them gift wrapped a few weeks prior. They then proceed to tell me how they finally figured it all out meanwhile Im calmly listening and fantasizing about strangling them.
Never ever show your bosses your full potential as an INTJ, though! They would think you can do everything, and thus, they will give you every task they can think of. . 😂
Kyrene Says...oh yeah this one is an important lesson to learn as early as humanly possible as an INTJ. 1. No one wants to think their subordinate is smarter than them. It’s unsettling for most managers. 2. They will use you too death if you don’t watch it and then you’ll end up *hating* the job because you’ll be mad you’re taking leadership orders from someone who shouldn’t be in leadership! So you have to hide how smart you really are to avoid these issues and in the end you look for something that is autonomous so you can be who you are.
i usually want to shoot the head off the fool who argued then seconds later follows what i said without recognition :( so much narcissism around nowadays
I don’t know what I am supposed to do with all these thumbs up 👍 because I only have two hands and certainly don’t wish to be a person that’s all thumbs Lol. But thanks anyway guys. Really I appreciate them
I enjoy your videos. I like how you typically reveal perspectives that I may not have thought of and patterns of thinking that facilitate those perspectives, and generally, just challenging my mind. But this isn't one of them. You got lost in the weeds here. "Moving the goalposts so that you can continue to be right" doesn't make sense. If you have to move the goalposts to be right then, you weren't correct, to start. All you're doing here is that having discovered that you were wrong, you're changing the question to fit your answer. Or, as you put it, choosing a convenient perspective on the question to fit your answer, and you're giving yourself license to do this because INTJs are responsible to the concept, not the reality (some serious grandiosity here, btw). This is nonsense. You are responsible to the realities of the question just like everyone else in the world. When you take on a question, you're taking on the context and all the other realities that define the question. The other thing you're doing is exploiting the assumptions inherent in how the question is presented. Instead of pointing out the assumptions to the other party and then working to define the issue best, you're counting on the vagueries to give you room to move the goalposts when it suits you. You said something to this effect, but you framed it to suit you. Aso, you're trying to attribute all of this to the dominance of Ni and the inferiority of your sensing function. But function stacks aren't what's driving this. They don't drive a need to be right to others, which is what you're talking about here. As Google says, "Introverted Intuition is the ability to grasp and get a sense of a pattern or plan." Ni is an ability. It's not a need to be right. This constant spinning and reframing in order to be right is your ego at work. It has nothing to do with being Ni dominant other than that Ni helps your ego in this effort. You mentioned about how you think you have an intj cornered but then something magical happens and you discover you have not. I come from an extended family of INTJs and INTPs. I think I'm the only INFJ. And I work in a field where I am confronted with spin daily. I have found that openly identifying and addressing the loose ends, with that person, and ultimately defining them, is a great way of leaving little or no wiggle room for the other party (INTJ or otherwise) to escape. I appear to be processing it with them but really I'm giving my perspective and defining the question, and since it's in real-time they generally don't have time to process and disagree, so they're either nodding their head or providing tacit agreement, because they can at least recognize some apparent truth to what I'm saying. I set the goalposts. Works really well! All that being said, I appreciate that it's 10x easier to criticize than create. I don't agree with it but I applaud and appreciate your effort.
So much thought here! Ok first, I did define this as a bad habit, not a good one, and not one that is growth mindset. I have no issue choosing a better solution if there is one available, I’m not personally attached to my logic. But if I do something, there is validity behind that choice by some perspective, even if it’s not the one initially intended. So can you be wrong through one perspective and correct through another? Certainly. The main concept I was trying to communicate is intuitions default soliton to reframe situations. With some of my rather dry sarcasm in there as well lol. Thanks for your thoughts!
@@InternetLiJo Yeah, I missed where you defined it as a bad habit. Thanks for your thoughtful reply! It makes it worth me putting in the effort. And for not taking it personally. So hard to communicate tone online. You did get pretty deep in the weeds with this one. Perhaps you could include an example next time you do so.
David Perfette I considered using the example as it was made aware to me but the situation itself felt too personal and I’m still working on being more open with that stuff 😬
I am fine with updating an inaccurate flawed explanation, view point or idea. Changing your actions because you have found a flaw in real time takes alot of courage, prevents worse damage from being done and fixes things sooner rather than later. This is something that alot of people can't do or admit causing catastrophic mistakes and the world to not improove. And alot of People and Politicians to follow a therory or ideology to their family's, work, country's, town's or state's destruction; since they can't change what they are doing and can't admit some of their ideals maybe flawed.
And what you've done here is created a clever reframe for one to avoid ever having to acknowledge that their own, pretty substantial, insecurities drive an unyielding need to be right. Nicely played. Very creative and put a smile on my face! No, that's not intended to be sarcastic. I am Ni dominant and can deal fairly comfortably in reality and with being wrong. I crave understanding far more than any discomfort from being wrong, loathe spin, and know my strengths and weaknesses well enough that in instances where I am wrong, it doesn't change that. So, I don't believe being Ni dominant (INTJ or otherwise) makes one predisposed to resetting (spin) the goalposts. If someone is constantly resetting the goalposts when faced with being wrong then that has more to do with insecurity. Acknowledging when you're wrong doesn't have to be all that hard.
INTJs usually know, what they know (because they proved it themselves), and what they don't know. Framing every information as either true (because it was proven), or probably true (not yet proven, but providing source), means, that it is possible to never be wrong. Being wrong just means, that you insist on something, that can be proven wrong. INTJs develop way of speaking, that makes them always correct. Te people don't have insecurity of being wrong, because they make their thoughts public (extraverted). Their insecurities are tied to Fi. Is my character OK? Am I doing, what I decided, I should be doing?
Nope, never wrong. I thought I was wrong once, but I was wrong.
HA
I feel like this all the time!
How did you know this.
We have never met.
When people react like
"Do you think you are always right,never wrong."
"Yes,this time you are right",
Is my response.
I don't get why people are intimidated at all, I am not saying I am right all the time, but rather I am right until another better, more "correct" perspective comes along, in which I will then revise my stand. People have the misconception that we are close-minded and don't even put up a fight even though they think we are wrong, not realizing we are some of the most open-minded people out there waiting on a worthy opponent..
Yes so open minded and so worthy I agree
entjs have the same energy but prepare to get physical coz they will use every cheap trick just to win even if surrounded with facts , they dont care about the truth at all when confronted but not in a narcisstic envious way the rest of the types do it would just be like i said a fight :)
Agree. I think we are very open minded, but because we lead with Ni we go through many perspectives of one topic until we decide which one is correct to us, that's when we get "stubborn" about our opinions, but it's just because our mental process was not seen by others. It's just that every other perspective was not as accurate as the one we chose as correct, and changing our mind requires others to give us perspectives we hadn't considered yet.
@@BlueMarsh27 Exactly! I feel like I probably seem way more open-minded during the whole "deciding" process about certain things, which can take years. During the deciding process, I'm open to any new perspectives...any of them could turn out to be right, who knows. But once I think I've seen every argument I start to get a little more stubborn. Then it requires a new perspective I haven't seen before to make me reconsider.
"I am right until another better, more "correct" perspective comes along, in which I will then revise my stand."
YES. This! ^
This is a bad habit I have:
Sometimes I get into arguments without knowing why. Someone will make a statement that for some reason I disagree with, and I'll start arguing with them. I don't know how or why they're wrong but I'll figure it out while we discuss it.
Surely, at some point, they'll make a trivial fallacy and I'm right once again.
Haha sure thing
Dackson Flux. My INTJ does that to me, points out a trivial fallacy then sits back with his arms crossed as if he has won the whole argument, LOL. I’ve learned to say, “Yes, you are absolutely right and I am wrong about that point, however, let’s get back to a, b, c and x,y, z.” I will often concede a trivial fallacy even when I don’t think I am wrong..... Because I see it for what it is, a decoy, often deployed when he’s losing ground in the argument.
Ah, fascinating, fun creatures you INTJs.
@@leienc5771 oh I make sure we stay on topic. An INTP friend of mine will try to argue with me about crap that's totally unrelated.
He'll be like, "yes, but some whales have baleen" when the argument is about how frequently humans should brush their damn teeth... drives me crazy and he knows it.
But yeah, I've been accused of arguing for the sake of arguing.
Sometimes Te is unaware that Fi is terrified of losing an argument
Well said my dude 💯
And sometimes it's misinformation. That happens when you go back to re-check the facts and discover you got wrong information from a seemingly-credible source. Ni freak out.
Even when I’m “wrong” there’s something right about my “wrongness”. I always detect people’s inefficiencies when they “find” my “error”.
Haha true to this
Yo I feel like I've been called out😂
I think I'm definitely guilty of this sometimes. However, most of the time I'll only claim to be right about something when I'm 100% sure I'm right, rather than glaze over doubt with overconfidence.
That sounds like a healthy perspective!
I was in a good relationship with an INTJ for two years. We were a great fit in many ways but thinking back I noticed that she hadn’t apologised once during that time. It’s beyond frustrating when only one party admits to mistakes (intp)
INTJs kinda live by... "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant." ~Harlan Ellison ...but in a good way.
0:57 this is how it goes..
person: is this glass empty, full, or half full?
INTJ: the glass is full almost all of the time, with very few exceptions.
person: no, the glass is half full because it has the capacity to hold 8 oz of liquid and I poured 4 oz. in.
INTJ: no. at any time the glass can contain solids, liquids, or gases. You placed 4 oz. of liquid inside which partially displaced the air already in it. The glass is still full, the contents are simply not unified of a similar type. In order for the glass to be empty you would have to place it inside of a vacuum. Even then the glass would only be 99.9999% empty because there would still be fine particles on the inside of the glass.
person: I'm not inviting you to my birthday party.
INTJ: all is well. You blow, and that is a useful talent for filling birthday balloons.
This right here, is why I come off so incredulous at times.
(I’m definitely not an INTJ) I would have asked more questions about the glass, especially if it was a theoretical question. What kind of glass? What do you normally use this glass for? Etc. Then I would give my answer so that I’ve taken into account what is possible and it’s actual function in reality. It would leave little room for gases or other non liquid substances since its main actual function was for liquids. At least that’s how I would have looked at that question.
The glass is mostly empty all of the time. Since matter is 99.9999999% empty space even when you "fill" it up with something it's still pretty much empty.
@@DesertILI really puts a new spin on the phrase "thanks for nothing".
Glass? What? Stop wasting my time with pointless questions.
As an INTJ, I prefer to be correct, while I welcome being incorrect as an opportunity to learn.
Same!
Yes to thinking outside the box and looking at things from multiple perspectives and with intuition.
I'm usually proved to be right, however, I'm definitely not always right and I know it. Reality is more important than having to be right. As an example, there was this one time on a debate board I practically lived in where I was debating something and the other guy showed me where my information was not sound. I got very excited and thanked him for showing me where I was wrong. He was floored and confused. Apparently, he had never heard of anyone in the history of online debate conceding they were wrong, much less being happy about it. ;)
Haha I couldn’t agree more Anthony
Thank you for making me laugh at myself instead of bashing myself every day.
Yay we can laugh at ourselves together
Our friends told us is that when I fight with my intj best friend it’s like a storm that you can’t get caught in.
Lmao... very true
I try to avoid saying anything to begin with unless I'm sure I'm right.
Sometimes I fail though xD
Yes, this is why I tell my wife, when I know I'm right about something, please just concede because I am for sure right.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
That's why you want to hang out with INTPs. On one hand, we love finding exceptions and logical flaws (but don't take it personally!). On the other hand, we're happy to help you figure out where to move the goalposts to still be right!
Interesting. I decided quite a while ago that being true to myself, and right in my own head (which is the one that matters most), is the most important thing. Of course new information can create new thoughts. When considering points of view, 'everything' is relative. Someone can have a different point of view from the majority, and be right. He/she may have insight that the 'normal' majority doesn't have. Just a thought. Peace.
I do this all the time. No, Reality is definitely real. It's just infinite, so it doesn't fall into the same category as what we normally think of as real. Reality is just a synonym for "everything that exists". When you consider utterly everything, shit gets weird and paradoxical. This concept is also the most important understanding you can strive for. So when I (and maybe other INTJ's, I don't know) "move the goalposts" I'm actually expanding my perspective and making it bigger. The loss has made the limit of my perspective apparent to me. It was just the accidental occasion that served as a reminder. What I really want is not to win some pissing contest, but to merge with Reality, merge with the Infinite. That's why it's so irresistable.
I tend to do this a lot as I can bend and twist almost anything to have it seem “right”. Although most of the time it’s just me describing something from my perspective but people describe it as argumentative
I didn't realise how my critical thinking works until you put on this. People around me especially my family, classates, and teachers always complain how argumentative I am. My intention is not to create arguments at all, instead, when I see something slightly wrong based on my perspective, knowledge, and opinion, I mention it aloud. Unfortunately, they see me as RUDE as fuck everytime I stand up. They tell me to just stick to what I learn instead of questioning everything and that's exactly the stupidest thing I've heard in my entire life.
Plus, everytime I get myself into an argument, when I add my points up by changing the perspective in the situation, as you said in the video (which I found lovely overwhelming because it really describes my actions), they say that I'm rude and just wanting to win every argument. I don't know how to make them understand that it comes natural from me and how I think.
Living in a society is hard when people just don't get you at all.
(Sorry for the rant. I just have been keeping this thought for a very very long time.)
AMAZING, the relatability is unreal
Me: “dad always thinks he’s right, he always has to have the last word. It’s his way or the highway.”
My sister: “yea but YOU always think you’re right too.”
Me: “...yeaaaa...but when’s the last time I was wrong?!?!”
My sister: “...yea, you’re right actually.”
Me: “exactly. Stfu.”
lol that's hilarious
Of course INTJs can be wrong. The point is most poople (sorry, I mean to say 'generics") can't subdue their ego in order to correct the mistake. INTJs however welcome constructive criticism and a more pure form of the truth. I personally use failure to fight stagnation. Who wants to be right all the time? Next you'll try to quantify the universe... it can't be done.
Well said!
I am constantly asking poople (was that intentional?) to "get past their ego for just five seconds."
I wonder if our pursuit of more accurate truths stems from having been wrong in the past, and a desire to understand things more completely with a distaste for black and white thinking/conclusions (often provided by others) that have failed us. Perhaps we just become irritated with others who have seemingly very strong opinions when we sense that they haven't put the same work/thought into their theories, or fail to see the big picture. And perhaps some kind of bullheaded subconscious type Fi situation makes us value making the other person understand our point of view because of this. And I wonder if anything I just said makes any sense whatsoever lol. Basically, I have no problem being wrong. But I struggle to trust that I am wrong if the person I'm talking with can't show some sign they actually understand the big picture of what I'm saying. Because even very credible knowledge is proven wrong or incomplete all the time.
@@BrianOfAteionas yes, this makes sense. I often wonder about the same thing. I don't thirst for knowledge in the same way that INTPs do. I want to be as accurate as possible for the time it takes me to arrive at my destination. Trying to keep up with all perceived truths would be exhausting, pointless, and I suspect impossible. So being completely right doesn't happen very frequently and when it does occur it's at a painful price. When others take that process lightly, I seem to almost chide them.
@@BrianOfAteionas I think the Fi does play into it, as I'm realizing more as I get older. I realized I can rationalize just about anything, always find a way to be right, in order to prove a point, because the point means something to me. Sometimes I have a stance on something for reasons I don't think my opponent will agree with, and I can taylor my argument to that person using reasons I think they WILL agree with, reasons I personally don't care about. Because it's all about convincing them of the thing I want to convince them.
I've often thought of reframing success and rightness as an Enneagram 3 thing. Your quote of "there's no failure with Te" also seems relevant. Perhaps Enneagram 3 has some connection to that, contrasted with Enneagram 4 tendencies to wallow in Fi, which "has no successes" in whatever sense that might be true. These things together gives the INTJ stack high chances for success in all ventures - the space for failure at all is nearly completely eliminated. Ni reframeth and Te never faileth.
Hahah that last sentence is 💯🙌🏼
Interesting insight into the INTJ reframing process... for some reason as an INTP this doesn't bother me during a discussion with INTJ friends but now I understand the why and how I guess. INTPs are probably one of the likeliest types to call out the INTJ as we are very sensitive to changing assumptions and inconsistencies which may occur during reframing... still love INTJs... never a dull intellectual moment!
I have said for years I do not claim to be always right, I am never wrong.
What I don't say is how. I have either removed all not right answers very rapidly in my head, planned for spontaneity long in advance (prepared for possible odd scenarios), or simply rephrased a scenario/question so my apparently wrong answer is no longer wrong. ;)
Hahah right on
An INTJ is right until proven wrong. lol!
I am always right!
gosh darn it, I am just going to say what I have always wanted to say..."I am always right".
I know it, so why don't 'they' know it...or admit it...
phew, that sure feels good to say what I think.
Thanks, Li Jo yes, and because this is not the message you may have wanted to communicate, I sure really did and do.
ho, ho, ho...Li Jo you have been a very good and funny girl this year. The elf on the shelf and myself
are very proud of you and your content.
I guess it's been a couple months, but love the purple rebranding. Gorgeous shade, and good match for the Ni mystique lol
We are wrong, but now we are going to teach you something right, in exchange for the valuable thing you just taught us. We are not going let on to the thing you just taught me, however we are now going to master this thing, until the next thing😊
Haha I'm always impressed by INTJ's ability to argue. You have the 2 biggest argue weapons, firstly like you said, a focus on concepts and then secondly the entire spectrum of reasons to pick from that strengthen your argument haha 😂😂😂 (Manny)
Yeahhh if we want to go for it, we are a power house lol
i argued with myself and defeated myself
Ha! Thank you for some validation here...Funny that it is the Architect personality type + my profession. I fall guilty of this sometimes, but the re-framing + contradictions just makes people go bonkers! Fortunately, my newly-embraced empath-ENFP-alt-self has risen to the occasion + can take over for damage control...
That’s a great path!
Yup.
I can get rather "long winded" per say, when I am defending a point about something that others think is true,
that is not in fact true, but then I end up running in circle competing with perception. And virtually arguing to myself.
When "reality" is in question, people will always have their own POV, unfortunately if I know someone is wrong in a
general sense, I can't help but correct it. People see this as me being emotional about something Fi.
When in fact it's simply the INACCURACY that is driving me bonkers.
(unless it's more of a personal matter I suppose)
Yes an inaccuracy related to the outside world vs the self come across differently in my opinion. We always take the inaccuracies related to the self way more personally (no doubt) lol
I can see this potentially causing negative interactions with Ti doms. When you try and reframe something the Ti antenna goes way up.
Haha absolutely 100% gets me in trouble with Ti 😂
I often stretch reality to challenge ideas of other people. It's fun to see them struggle to understand the point of view I would present! In some cases, I pity them for being so confined in their own little sensory world. In other cases, I would get so annoyed, again with how one-sided and close-minded some people can be. In most cases, though, I just want to challenge myself if I could present as many versions of their reality to them as I can. It's great exercise for the mind. Plus, it's really fun to see them struggle! I would tell them "I mean the same thing as you've said!" and then they would get annoyed! 😂😂😂
My mother used to say half as a joke..."That's the first mistake I ever made!" ...and then go on to point out in quasi surprise... "But wait, that wasn't a mistake!" ...and then reframe and declare herself to still be President of the Perfect Club! Since it was always executed with such sincere good cheer and with her tongue (seemingly) firmly in her cheek, nobody ever got upset.
I'm INTP and I catch myself trying to do this, too, but I'm only successful now and then, probably because I lack the committment. ;)
As an ISFP friend my INTJ is almost right all the time except the fact that i am extremely unpredictable and she can’t really predict me this much. Like she is right that i’m unpredictable and she is not surprised when i changed my mind within The last second. We are so opposite like i don’t even know what we see in each other yet we work well together and both actually tend to sometimes compromise. She is an artist though as Well. Like she paints as a hobby but her main focus is science while i am an artist first and later like science(i do like it but in a practical way not too much reading into. Like she loves both reading about horses and being with them while i prefer being with them.
Have you ever read LoTR or the Hobbit and other Tolkien books? I’ve always perceived the high elves 🧝🏻♀️ like they were Ni users, and especially have the habit of always being accurate. In my life, accuracies don’t even matter. It’s more about personal precision:)
Read one of the LoTR and I totally see what you’re saying :)
I picked up on my INTJ “Moving the Goal Post” in the very beginning of our relationship. I think I might be the first person in his life to call him on it. I thoroughly enjoy running him back through our conversations and pointing out exactly where he flipped things. It drives him nutts but at the same time I think an INTJ is impressed with someone who can hold their own in a verbal spar.... The way I can tell I have won an argument with my INTJ is when he puts me in a headlock and messes up my hair.... hehehe
Lol adorable
Step 1: Realize you uttered a falsehood
Step 2: Recieve correct knowlege from conversation partner(s)
Step 3: Use rest of conversation to ensure all other participants in the conversation understand that the correct perspective in fact came from you in the first place.
Step 4: (Optional) Commence evil laugh in head or out loud, whichever is more appealingly
Technically correct is the best kind of correct!
Also reality is so overrated. Abstract concepts get us intuitives so excited, but some people can´t share the enthusiasm for ideas or "unrealistic" but totally possible goals and theories.
Interesting. I did catch myself doing this a lot when I was younger. As you said, taking the core concept and (even conveniently) reframing so I could sound to others like I was right all along. So I'm guilty as charged, lol. However, I found that a good way to deal with this is verbalizing the reframing process to others, while keeping in mind the original statement. Stating that you weren't accurate at first (being very clear about you being wrong), but then establishing why this other new perspective could be plausible. For example saying something like "Yeah, TBH I guess you were right/I was wrong with this, but if you look at how this concept is essentially, it could have been also this other way" and then proceed to give examples for that new perspective. In my experience, if you start by owning up your mistake/inacuraccy, people are more willing to listen to an alternative perspective, and you get a bit of both worlds (conceding and not being to far off from being right).
Plus... your approach has the added benefit of being more intellectually honest... although, to be truthful, I almost never say "You were right/I was wrong...." However, I DO say "you have,a valid point/observation," and then I proceed to verbally "fit" that point into my original thought/answer... (maybe with a minor modification) I will say some types ARE better observers of sensory reality than I am. I deeply appreciate the pushback on a detail I may have missed... but I still try to fit it in.
I'm Si dominant, and having a somewhat difficult time figuring out what this reframing looks like in the sensory world... can anyone with savior Ni help me out by explaining an example of this reframing in action? Is it a conscious decision, to reframe and adjust? Do you notice it happening in the moment? Do other people notice that it's happening?
I find that it's one of two ways with me. 1. I'm either right about a topic or 2. I don't put a stake in the debate because I lack all of the facts to ensure I'm right.
Beautifully said.
Good video. I take the INTJ to be like a progressive scientist and ISTJ to more factually correct. However the past doesn't always repeat and I'd take the advice of an INTJ by default.
Yes ISTJs are far more factually correct lol. Numbers, dates, literal procedures, they win that game and I ... don’t care.
ya.. i have ISTJs leader in my work place, and he just do whatever i say with technical way he had
she is beautiful
Super informative liz😍
I've never really thought about this but I do it ALL THE TIME!! 😂😂 my friends ( the 3 that I enjoy lol) are always like, dang I thought I caught her... I guess I really do this a lot, whether it be a concept or just explaining why I thought something😂😂 people always have told me I'm good at BSing... it's my Ni! Awesome video!
I know it’s such a default state it takes conscious effort not to do.
LiJo thank you for the videos. It would be great if you can branch out and do videos about the other types, instead of focusing only on INTJ. I'm an INTJ (borderline INTP) myself. What type(s) do not like their judgment being questioned?
I may do that but the objective of my channel is to convey understanding within my personality type and provide tools for self growth amongst all personality types :)
@@InternetLiJo fair enough. I can use as much help as I can get with issues related to my personality.
Although I am not officially diagnosed with autism, a psychiatrist seemed to think I have it, but I wonder how much of my difficulties relating to people stem from my INTJ personality type.
People seem to think I am in my own world, I'm cold and robotic. I'd say this is more or less accurate. It's hard for me to find people I vibe well with. Thus I'm stuck in a kind of limbo where, although I may want to talk to people, I don't because I don't want to look stupid.
No dislikes (yet) as accuracy is on point. Will edit this when that changes.
A weird thing that happens occasionally is I would think I was wrong about something but I was actually correct. But when I am wrong and there is another person or third parties I would say I was wrong if it made them feel better or something lol
I can relate lol!
My wife is an ENFJ, but Ni is high on her function stack of course and she does this brilliantly (she studied law, no surprise lol). Occasionally, I'll "win" an argument if it's something Fi related, such as trying to get her to think about her own needs, but otherwise I usually walk away feeling quite stupid >.< - infp
So I recently heard about your water drinking problem. I am half way between INTJ and INTP and my thing is math. I was wondering if explaining how water flows in a cup when drinking using equations and graphs would help? If so I'm solving the problem anyway so let me know if you want me to share. lol
I believe that INTJ can benefit greatly from learning the Socratic Dialog method; starting a conversation with a question instead of an accusation.
Stoicism also helps the Worldview.
Hello, so I have a question about my personality type. I have frequently tested INTJ (with 66% intuitive on 16 Personalities) but I kind of relate to ISTJ too. I relate to intuition in that I focus mostly on the big picture and pay more attention to what's going on in my head rather than the reality of my surroundings. However I relate to sensing in that I don't naturally think in an abstract way. I think I'm capable of abstract thinking, but I naturally think of things in a more black and white/cut and dry way. Is it possible to be an INTJ if I think more cut and dry than abstract? Could having a black and white mindset be a part of the thinking trait of INTJs?
What do you feel more responsible for? The correctness of things in reality (physician rules and structure) or the correctness of the idea as a whole?
@@InternetLiJo I think the idea as a whole! Although I do think structure is often necessary to get things done efficiently
You could try keys2cognition.com (click "explore" when there)
Self-typing is possible but it often requires time to get your personality right since one is often affected by the environment they're in. You could also try researching more on the jungian cognitive functions to discover which functions you use more and how they manifest in your life.
My wife is an ENFJ, but Ni is high on her function stack of course and she does this brilliantly (she studied law, no surprise lol). Occasionally, I'll be able to sort of "win" an argument if it's more Fi related, but otherwise I usually walk away feeling quite stupid >.< - INFP
Once when I was in 8th grade I had a group math test, me and three other girls. There was one question that I disagreed with their answer, but eventually I gave in because 1) they refused to listen cuz of majority vs. minority 2) ran out of time. The next day I talked to my math teacher alone and she said I was right, and I was lowkey angry.
Same situation occured freshman year of high school and I managed to persuade my group to listen to me, I refused to back down. (Also I argued with them for like 30 minutes or less). We turned in of test and got 100%. I was so frickin proud😂
What I got from these experiences (and others) is that I will be 100% convinced that I am absolutely right unless you bring me solid logic and evidence that I am wrong. And you better count that it'll take a lot of time😂
Agreed.. Intj see the concept like touch screen..
Yes exactly
I don't do this, much, except when it suits me, like.... all the time :/ intellectually intimidating, apparently!
Hey LiJo! What MBTI are the best life partners/spouses for an INTJ? Can you make a vid about that? Would love to dig deeper.
I am (regrettably) notorious for this within my family 😅
Cause INTJ's are badass!
what happens when two INTJs get together and debate?Any experience with that? I would imagine lots of goal post moving and perspective shifting and then nothing is resolved.
I think this way of thinking is why there's statistically a disproportionately large amount of INTJs as attorneys 😄. I could, and have, used arguments I don't even believe in, to prove a point I do believe in. Anything can be rationalized.
Haha I’ve thought about this, I’m relatively good in actual debates. Bio engineering debate team in middle school woot woot. Cool kid alert. Lmao
We are never wrong just not right yet
Haha that’s one way to look at it.
"But it's pickles"
They even think they’re right when there Extremely wrong 😫,
the one in the movie that says they’re fine walking home alone,the serial killer escaped the asylum was miles away, no way they’d be here. (Even though they could hitchhike or steal a car, etc... sorry infp here) that’s one example of intj logic... at least to me
Idk if im an Intj, but im surely guilty of this. I will often speak in generalizations and have to double back and reframe.
But more often we are just right. 🤓
I mean INTJs are always thinking about *everything* from multiple aspects and with multiple contingencies for that thought. So when someone is playing checkers with a concept we’ve played 3D Chess and forgot about it already for another idea.
People think we have an issue with wanting to be ‘right’ but that’s not true at all...right is subjective...we are concerned with being *Correct* very different when you think about it.
Often times people will think we’re wrong until something happens in THEIR life (i.e. reality) and then all of a sudden they’ll see what we said was correct all along.
This is why people think we can ‘see into the future’ when in reality our brains are just using Ni at such advanced levels that we’re connecting seemingly unrelated phenomena into a cohesive story and we just know the outcome before everyone else.
Which is why some people don’t like us because we seem to always be ahead of the curve and that can be intimidating to be around someone like us (I guess that’s why we’re only 1-2% of the population).
This is also why we learn over time NOT to use this skill in public with the general population too much because it scares people how accurate we really are 🤷🏽♀️
BlairWaldorf2013 yeah... this is a recurring theme in my life. For example a friend has a complex social issue, I ask the right questions to gather all the information I can.. then tell them exactly what’s going on and how to solve it and give full explanations to everyone’s ulterior motives and actually identify the root cause of the issue. They don’t trust me because how could I know all of this and assume I’m making stuff up, or assume my conclusion is inaccurate. They find out the hard way over weeks and then finally reach the exact same conclusion I originally gave to them gift wrapped a few weeks prior. They then proceed to tell me how they finally figured it all out meanwhile Im calmly listening and fantasizing about strangling them.
Never ever show your bosses your full potential as an INTJ, though! They would think you can do everything, and thus, they will give you every task they can think of. . 😂
Kyrene Says...oh yeah this one is an important lesson to learn as early as humanly possible as an INTJ.
1. No one wants to think their subordinate is smarter than them. It’s unsettling for most managers.
2. They will use you too death if you don’t watch it and then you’ll end up *hating* the job because you’ll be mad you’re taking leadership orders from someone who shouldn’t be in leadership!
So you have to hide how smart you really are to avoid these issues and in the end you look for something that is autonomous so you can be who you are.
YES :)
i usually want to shoot the head off the fool who argued then seconds later follows what i said without recognition :(
so much narcissism around nowadays
Do INTPs also habe the "THING"? I think so :)
Everyone has a “thing”
You are right 😘☺️
"Reality isn't even real."
Wait... What?
It's a subjective sense experience. Nothing is real :D
@@dirtywhitellama Is that the truth, or merely your subjective sense experience?
@@Vezmus1337 yes.
@@Vezmus1337 it's the Matrix and INTJs are literally representing "The Architect" haha
My wife's not an INTJ like me, yet somehow she's always right. Go figure.
Sometimes letting someone else be right is the most correct thing you can do according to the situation lol
perhaps the only thing that my ex liked about my personality was that I am never wrong. She broke up with me for this reason. LOL
Haha well... can’t win em all over
That’s not really moving the goalposts Lol. We are just always “Right” no matter how you look at it.Lol Thanks again Li Jo
Thanks for the thumbs up 👍. I appreciate all constructive feedback Lol.
Thanks again people
I don’t know what I am supposed to do with all these thumbs up 👍 because I only have two hands and certainly don’t wish to be a person that’s all thumbs Lol. But thanks anyway guys. Really I appreciate them
Lol thanks people
If I’m not talking it’s because I’m not arguing.
I enjoy your videos. I like how you typically reveal perspectives that I may not have thought of and patterns of thinking that facilitate those perspectives, and generally, just challenging my mind. But this isn't one of them. You got lost in the weeds here. "Moving the goalposts so that you can continue to be right" doesn't make sense. If you have to move the goalposts to be right then, you weren't correct, to start. All you're doing here is that having discovered that you were wrong, you're changing the question to fit your answer. Or, as you put it, choosing a convenient perspective on the question to fit your answer, and you're giving yourself license to do this because INTJs are responsible to the concept, not the reality (some serious grandiosity here, btw). This is nonsense. You are responsible to the realities of the question just like everyone else in the world. When you take on a question, you're taking on the context and all the other realities that define the question.
The other thing you're doing is exploiting the assumptions inherent in how the question is presented. Instead of pointing out the assumptions to the other party and then working to define the issue best, you're counting on the vagueries to give you room to move the goalposts when it suits you. You said something to this effect, but you framed it to suit you.
Aso, you're trying to attribute all of this to the dominance of Ni and the inferiority of your sensing function. But function stacks aren't what's driving this. They don't drive a need to be right to others, which is what you're talking about here. As Google says, "Introverted Intuition is the ability to grasp and get a sense of a pattern or plan." Ni is an ability. It's not a need to be right. This constant spinning and reframing in order to be right is your ego at work. It has nothing to do with being Ni dominant other than that Ni helps your ego in this effort.
You mentioned about how you think you have an intj cornered but then something magical happens and you discover you have not. I come from an extended family of INTJs and INTPs. I think I'm the only INFJ. And I work in a field where I am confronted with spin daily. I have found that openly identifying and addressing the loose ends, with that person, and ultimately defining them, is a great way of leaving little or no wiggle room for the other party (INTJ or otherwise) to escape. I appear to be processing it with them but really I'm giving my perspective and defining the question, and since it's in real-time they generally don't have time to process and disagree, so they're either nodding their head or providing tacit agreement, because they can at least recognize some apparent truth to what I'm saying. I set the goalposts. Works really well!
All that being said, I appreciate that it's 10x easier to criticize than create. I don't agree with it but I applaud and appreciate your effort.
So much thought here! Ok first, I did define this as a bad habit, not a good one, and not one that is growth mindset. I have no issue choosing a better solution if there is one available, I’m not personally attached to my logic. But if I do something, there is validity behind that choice by some perspective, even if it’s not the one initially intended. So can you be wrong through one perspective and correct through another? Certainly. The main concept I was trying to communicate is intuitions default soliton to reframe situations. With some of my rather dry sarcasm in there as well lol. Thanks for your thoughts!
@@InternetLiJo Yeah, I missed where you defined it as a bad habit. Thanks for your thoughtful reply! It makes it worth me putting in the effort. And for not taking it personally. So hard to communicate tone online. You did get pretty deep in the weeds with this one. Perhaps you could include an example next time you do so.
David Perfette I considered using the example as it was made aware to me but the situation itself felt too personal and I’m still working on being more open with that stuff 😬
@@InternetLiJo Ok. Thanks for sharing. I'm a clinical social worker so I can understand that. That's also where much of my perspective comes from.
Why are we like this 😅
True.
where do you live my other half?
I am fine with updating an inaccurate flawed explanation, view point or idea. Changing your actions because you have found a flaw in real time takes alot of courage, prevents worse damage from being done and fixes things sooner rather than later. This is something that alot of people can't do or admit causing catastrophic mistakes and the world to not improove. And alot of People and Politicians to follow a therory or ideology to their family's, work, country's, town's or state's destruction; since they can't change what they are doing and can't admit some of their ideals maybe flawed.
💓💓💓 From 🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸
And what you've done here is created a clever reframe for one to avoid ever having to acknowledge that their own, pretty substantial, insecurities drive an unyielding need to be right. Nicely played. Very creative and put a smile on my face! No, that's not intended to be sarcastic. I am Ni dominant and can deal fairly comfortably in reality and with being wrong. I crave understanding far more than any discomfort from being wrong, loathe spin, and know my strengths and weaknesses well enough that in instances where I am wrong, it doesn't change that. So, I don't believe being Ni dominant (INTJ or otherwise) makes one predisposed to resetting (spin) the goalposts. If someone is constantly resetting the goalposts when faced with being wrong then that has more to do with insecurity. Acknowledging when you're wrong doesn't have to be all that hard.
INTJs usually know, what they know (because they proved it themselves), and what they don't know. Framing every information as either true (because it was proven), or probably true (not yet proven, but providing source), means, that it is possible to never be wrong. Being wrong just means, that you insist on something, that can be proven wrong. INTJs develop way of speaking, that makes them always correct. Te people don't have insecurity of being wrong, because they make their thoughts public (extraverted). Their insecurities are tied to Fi. Is my character OK? Am I doing, what I decided, I should be doing?
Are we moving the goal posts or is someone else's poor interpretation of reality causing the location of the goal posts to be inaccurate?
🤔🤔🤔 good point
Lmao NEVER
Lolol 🤷🏼♀️😬
I think it’s because you don’t like being wrong...lol...at least that’s what I tell my wife...
Lol I’m always right as I define correct
LiJo lol...
LiJo so glad I found your channel it’s been great
Well... reality is real, but we cannot necessarily perceive its reality is the argument... (sorry).
Yes we are always right and most people can’t handle it lol
Well duh 😉